/vr/ - Retro Games

What is impressive about it?
It has style, but the gameplay doesn't seem that technically advanced.

I'd say Little Samson or Mega Man would be the most technically impressive. No wait, fuck those games.

Mr. Gimmick is the most technically impressie NES game hands down. There PHYSICS in that game.

Summer Carnival '92 - Recca

>>1788326
I've yet to see a better looking game on the system, the sprites and animation almost look like early 16 bit games at times.

The fact that you have 5 characters that play differently and stages with a lot of variety also makes it stand out compared to other games from the era.

>>1788316
I prefer the SNES version

>>1788354
I'd argue that even the Mega Man series looks technically closer to early 16-bit games.

Stylistically not as much, of course.

>>1788354
>five characters that play differently
It's like you've never even played the game. The Battletoads all play the same, and the Dragons both play the same. And beyond that, the Dragons just utilize the Battletoads control scheme (and health system) with different animations, instead of actually trying to combine the two series different mechanics.
You've got one character with four different skins.

>>1788375
Nope. The characters all have different walking speed and jump heights, not to mention the toads are stronger than the dragons.

>>1788381
haha no

>>1788316
No. I would argue Kirby's Adventure or Castlevania III are more impressive. That's not even counting FC-exclusives like Metal Slader Glory.

>>1788385
Okay, keep in denial. Just try to explain why would speedrunners bother choosing to play as Pimple if they are all the same.

>I've yet to see a better looking game on the system, the sprites and animation almost look like early 16 bit games at times
I really don't see how the graphics look much (if at all) better than in games like Batman, Batman: Return of the Joker, Gimmick!, Vice: Project Doom, Crisis Force, Kick Master, Ninja Gaiden II and III, the later Mega Man games, Shatterhand, Little Samson, Moon Crystal, and hacks and homebrew like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WZdlL4IoRM and this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct7T1L0cdYo

>>1788693
Forgot my quote!
Obviously meant to be a reply to >>1788354

Zelda is the most impressive for me.

It may not have the most detailed graphics or complex music, but it much larger, more innovative and more ambitious world and design than any other game on the NES.

Mr Gimmick, Little Samson, Bucky 'O Hare, Cocoron, etc, they're all good, but they don't compare to Zelda's scale.

Just reading the manual is more impressive than 99% of the NES library. Mario 3 is the only thing that comes close in my opinion.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcFg41Y0NUc

It's like you're basing this all on music alone, sillies.
Snake Rattle 'n' Roll.
Done.

ITT: People confusing complex with technically profecient

From a technical standpoint, there is very little amount of games which are more advanced than SMB 3 on the NES

>>1788693
>that Super Star Soldier music in the second video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtqqFhbGjJ0
The guy who made that homebrew has some damn good tastes in shmups.

>>1788354
isn't kirby more advanced in that sense though? it had the extra hardware inside the cartridge: didn't it add a few colors or sound channels?

>>1789041
this, Rare's games were buggy as fuck.

>>1788693
>Gimmick!
Fuck yes, nigger. That game is amazing.

>>1788957
Based on music alone, I'd have to say Silver Surfer is the best and most impressive.
Sunsoft would be way up there as well.

>>1789185
I always felt Kirby looked and played great for the time.

Not sure how the NES version compares, but I've always felt that the SNES version is secretly one of the most difficult games of all time.
No one ever talks about it, but has anyone here beaten it?

>>1789645
> Beating a Battletoads game

You are so cute.

>>1789648
I bought the game from a garage sale when I was like 6, and I've only ever gotten to the boss of stage 3.

>>1789648
Terra Tubes too hard for me.

Super Turrican is pretty damn impressive, especially considering that it was made by pretty much a single person.
IIRC it's also one of the very few NES games that can scroll into all directions without any really notable graphic issues.

>>1789648
I beat Battletoads for the first time yesterday. It was brutal, but it's totally possible.

>>1789185

Kirby's Adventure is the best game to show off the NES' color limitations. Everything is just a block that's either blue, green, pink, or orange, not to mention the fuckhuge status bar that takes up just under half the game screen. Every sprite on screen is either red or pink, and some stages are almost entirely one color. The only remotely noteworthy things about the game is the fact that it's the biggest licensed NES game.

>>1789695
Shame that it looks and plays like complete shit, especially compared to the C64.

>>1790649
Oh look, it's this shitpost again!

It doesn't stop being a shitpost just because you keep reposting it, man.

>>1791118
Why is it a shitpost?

>>1788316
>Is Battletoads and Double Dragon the most technically impressive game on the NES?
Not really. By the time this game came out, NES dev's skills have matured greatly and were able to pull off a bit more than what they could do before. Many late-era NES games had some gorgeous visuals, but they really weren't that big of a leap compared to titles released a few years prior.
As for the game, it's been a while, but from what I remember, I found it to be pretty underwhelming and ridiculously easy to the point of being kinda boring. This game might as well be called "Battletoads 3 Feat. The Double Dragons", as there's almost nothing really DD-feeling about it, and it plays more like a toned down sequel. Other than the crossover novelty, it's nothing special. At least the SNES version has a great soundtrack.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfEuWjFpclA

>>1790664
As janky as NES Super Turrican was, I still personally think its' superior to the original two games, which I found to be fuck-awful aside from the music and visuals. Fucking euro devs of the day just did not believe in recovery-time.

>>1791296
It's a shitpost because anybody who looks at Kirby's Adventure and says
>Everything is just a block that's either blue, green, pink, or orange
>some stages are almost entirely one color
is a giant cunt.

I would say Recca holds that title, though it's a Famicom exclusive.

It was designed specifically to push the hardware to its limit. Lots of fast-moving sprites on screen with zero slowdown.

>>1789695
Factor-5 and Rainbow Arts were pure yurop magic, man. Easily one of the best western devs at the time-

>>1788339
Agreed, not to mention Mr. Gimmick had an AMAZING soundtrack!
Sad NA never got the upgraded sound Famicom users took for granted

>>1791808
The top screen looks good. Shame most stages in the game look like the bottom screen. Even the original Mario Bros had better color choices and better color contrast.

>>1791814
Recca has flickering out the ass.

>It was designed specifically to push the hardware to its limit
And this bit is nonsense. It was designed for a competition and nothing more.

>>1792879
Some of it is due to the NES' inherent 8 sprites per scanline limitation. Once that number is breached, the sprites will start to flicker. Who knows why that was even there in the first place, probably because Nintendo cheaped out on the hardware. Another reason for the flickering is go beyond the 64 sprites per screen limitation. By blinking sprites out of memory, the game can display a different set of sprites in their place, and go back and forth quickly to give the impression there's more than 64 sprites on screen.

>>1788916
this is what a fanboy looks like

>>1791808
>>1792876

I'm a different person and I think Kirby really does illustrate the color limitations of the NES. That top screen is only utilizing 4 colors at once. If that's the best you can showcase then you're just reinforcing the other anon's point.

what about the Konami Famicom game that used the VRC7 that makes it sound nearly like a Genesis. thats very impressive for the NES. But graphically, probably Gimmick because of the physics. Castlevania III japanese versions sounds like an MSX-Ish or PC Engine sound. gimmick sounds very good as well.

>>1793131
I'm counting 6 colors not including black and white. I'm not saying Kirby's Adventure is the height of NES technical prowess, but I'm struggling to understand why anyone would think it exemplifies the NES' limitations.

>>1788916
>Just reading the manual is more impressive than 99% of the NES library.
neckbeard reaching critical levels

>>1788916
>Just reading the manual is more impressive than 99% of the NES library. Mario 3 is the only thing that comes close in my opinion.
That's nice and all, but it has nothing to do with what's actually being discussed in the thread. Now go away, moviebob.

>>1793160
Well black isn't a color in this situation since it's just an pixel turned off. I'll concede white too, but there isn't any white being used in the game so I don't know what you're seeing. Also shades and tints are just modifying the same color group so I'm not inclined to include those either.

I'm not trying to shit on Kirby's Adventure, I love the game and series. I'm just saying that when you step back and take a critical look at the game as whole, it seems that the art direction is too ambitious for what the hardware can offer. Imagine what could've been done using the Master System /Mk.III

>>1793131
>That top screen is only utilizing 4 colors at once. If that's the best you can showcase then you're just reinforcing the other anon's point.
It's the best that can be showcase on the NES PERIOD, and there is no game this doesn't apply to.
Look at fucking Batman here, a game I'm sure pretty much everyone would agree is one of the best looking on the system.
What colors are there?
Green. Orange. Blue. Gray.
That's literally it, if you ignore sprites like you did with Kirby.

>>1793197
Here's Gimmick!
Same story.
Green. Orange. Blue. and Gray if you count the HUD.
No other colors.

>>1793197
>>1793212
You're dumb yo. That Batman screenshot uses twelve different colors and the Gimmick! screenshot uses at least 8.The Kirby screenshot used 6.

>>1793212
Mega Man 6.
No different.
Green. Orange. Blue.

>>1793241
See:
>>1790649
>Everything is just a block that's either blue, green, pink, or orange
>>1793131
>That top screen is only utilizing 4 colors at once
>>1793184
>Also shades and tints are just modifying the same color group so I'm not inclined to include those either.
I'm going with these people's definition of "color" for the sake of argument. Surely even you can comprehend this.

>>1793184
>shades and tints are just modifying the same color group
Do you not understand how video games work?

>>1793254
>I'm defining color using a definition that's not relevant to the context because it makes me look right, you idiots

okay dude

>>1788316
I don't know why anybody is arguing over whether a game is technically impressive over color, when the NES is notable for having a limited palette.

Tetra Star is impressive.

>>1793246
The biggest difference with Kirby is it doesn't utilize black for greater detail or greater implied detail. Things are mostly solid pastel colors.

>>1793260
I DIDN'T define it that way, and I personally think that definition is retarded, which is why I felt the need to put quotes around the word "color" in my previous post.
I'm only using the same definition the people attacking the game are using for the sake of argument alone.
I really thought better of you. I thought you could handle this simple idea.

it's like having more than 4 colors on screen looks fucking ugly

it's not "limitation" it's basic graphic design

>>1793265
Didn't post a screenshot, cause it has to be seen in motion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obXqSVEpgUU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NtWtC-TVho

>>1793274
NES games don't do it as a matter of choice, though.
It really is a limitation.

>>1793283
This is full color palette of NES

now imagine how ugly would green look like on your screenshot.

>>1793306
I'm not saying you aren't generally correct that a limited amount of different hues looks better, I'm saying that on the NES they didn't have a choice. they were restricted to only a few hues.
The total NES color palette has nothing to do with this. No game can use anything more than a small fraction of those available colors at one time.

never played it so don't know if its enjoyable to play, but Street Fighter 2010 looks fucking amazing for a nes game

>>1788393
PJ just picks pimple because he likes him

>>1793330

>>1793417
Tom is Black, White, Grey, Peach, Blue, Pink, Light Blue. Seven colors.

Jerry is (without repeats) Brown. One additional color.

Title is (without repeats) Green and light orange. Two colors.

Altogether: 10 colors used.

>>1793417
Not impressive when each color has only a single shade.
Let me explain this shit.
The NES, for background and foregrounds and whatever, allows for just 4 palettes. All of those palettes are 4 colors each, and for all of those palletes, the fourth color is the same. That's a mere 13 colors you have to work with. If you're using shading, which most everything does, that basically means you have 4 hues maximum to work with.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbgxK4fOnOo

Unplayable game, but it does have a notable feature.

>>1794459
This is really impressive. I never heard about this game before.

>>1794497
It's probably the worst game I've ever played along with WWF WrestleMania Challenge. I wouldn't recommend it.

>>1794526
bad or not, what they did with NES hardware is impressive.

>>1793265
It's not about having a large number of colors as it is about sing the colors right. Kirby's Adventure only has a few stages were color is used well, such as the intro stage. Most of the time you're overpowered by screens that are predominantly one color. Color use and color choice is not KA's strength. Hell, it doesn't even bother giving King Dedede a proper palette. They didn't bother with overlaying sprites, a trick that was commonplace by the time the game came out.

May not be the most impressive but I was still pretty blown away by Joy Mech Fight.

>>1795165
Yeah, having floating limbs is kind of a cheaty way to do animation, but it looks so good in motion, and some of the backgrounds are pretty amazing. Same sort of deal with Vectorman or Rayman.

>>1795186
It's not a cheap way to do animation, it's just a design to hide the NES' flicker. If they hard arms and legs, you'd have to draw more sprites on screen to draw them, which in turn increases the chances of flicker. JMF avoids this by making the limbs fly around with nothing attached, being able to do Dhalsim style kicks and whatnot.

>>1795378
>It's not a cheap way to do animation
Yes it is. You can move small individual parts around to have the character as a whole do a near endless variety of different poses and movements, rather than have large sprites with tons of frames of animation each.

Just look at this sprite sheet. This is all of the sprites used for 8 entire characters, plus some redundant sprites, examples of how the parts can be used, all the parts in all the cycled palettes for Flame, and credits bullshit. It's tiny as fuck. There's practically nothing here.

>>1795630
Meanwhile here's just a character from an NES fighting game that doesn't have floating limbs, and the character isn't even as large as a character from Joy Mech Fight.

>>1795630
>give credit if used
cracks me up

What NES game has the best animations?

>>1796794
Prince of Persia, Moon Crystal, Dragon's Lair.

>>1796794
Probably Moon Crystal, yeah.

>>1788916
Zelda is impressive as shit for a game sold in 86 and Final Fantasy looks amazing for a game in 87

>>1793275
This looks amazing.

>that music
>mfw

I guess programmers don't make good composers or sound programmers, especially when every song is classical music and sounds absolutely horrid. Did the composers have a fetish for orchestra hits or something?

>>1793381
http://speeddemosarchive.com/BattletoadsAndDoubleDragonNES.html
>Dash jumping. I mention this in more detail in the audio commentary (listen to that, btw. good stuff in there), but the basic approach is to do the dash input before your character leaves the ground. Pimple and Bimmy have a lot of hesitation before they leave the ground so it is easiest with them. With one of the green toads you have a 1-frame window to do this. Since it is required absolutely everywhere, it is better to just go with the more consistent characters. Anyways, the trick lets us carry dash status into the air, which lets use the dash attacks or finishers in the air. Mad good.

>>1788316

nah that's not kunio nekketsu 2

Always felt Punch-Out!! was impressive as shit for a non-scrolling game on the nes. Huge sprites with no flicker at all while being super fluid and responsive just make it timeless for me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kuc1E-QEA6U

Bio-Force Ape

>>1791808
>>1793271
>>1793283

This game looks better, even though it's older. The color use and balance here is much better than Kirby's light colors and two color graphics. It's all about the color complementing each other well and not overwhelming the screen with a single color.

>>1793246
This almost looks like a Kirby's Adventure stage, except for all the black.

>>1788693
how is this the only person to mention Crisis Force

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8rBUGqMRfI

>>1802227
Because crippling slowdown isn't something to write home about.

>>1802462
To be fair, it isn't nearly as bad most of the time with one player.

>>1800185
Never heard of this game, looks neat. Thanks.
>>1793275
Fucking hell, where's the Gyruss soundtrack when you need it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1r5bZS5ry0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcQhnJxP7qU

What about this?
It has some pretty amazing CGI.
The gameplay sections are kinda lacky, though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x40NWzGt2DA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoBIOi00sEI
>real-time 3D graphics on the nes

I doubt it's technically impressive, but I always loved the way Shatterhand looked

>>1809872
How a game looks is FAR more important than what black magic the game needs to do to work. Shatterhand is one of my favorites when it comes to graphical ability.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu_XTsZSBf4

>How a game looks is FAR more important than what black magic the game needs to do to work.

OP said "technical" though. You gotta dial your autism up some.

>>1810441
Shatterhand probably does use some obscure programming tricks such as "mid-scanline splits", "DMA during V-blank", or "Sprite Zero Hit". Even games that don't look amazing do some voodoo like shit with the programming; allegedly Gauntlet has to perform algebra equations so that it can scroll in 4 directions without leaving artifacts.

>>1811827
How does the multiple sprites on screen even work with gauntlet? Just out of curiosity, you seem to know a lot about tech stuff.

>>1811831
Those aren't actually 'sprites' as defined by NES logic. They are background images. Ever wondered why they moved in a jerky manner? That's because the programming is re-writing the background graphics, which can only be placed in increments as low as 8 pixels. I think the enemies moved at 16 pixels at a time, since the NES could assign a new palette to an area as small as 16*16.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuzBE21hRCU