/vr/ - Retro Games

>>1776773
no.

guardian legend tho.

Mega Man everything. Especially 7.

Magical Pop'n
Pandemonium

Off the top OMH

>>1776773
Instead of making the thread every week to complain about that I think you should either 'get gud' or finally come to realize the flute system is there for a reason.

Also doesn't the All Stars version have saves anyway? (not sure, I never play that inferior port)

>>1776794
Why? The games are short; and the PW system is easy to use and convenient.

Jurassic Park for the SNES.

MC Kids
>very long for an NES platformer
>takes a few hours just to find the bare minimum of cards needed to beat the game
>all those secret cards and that puzzle world
>no save feature, passwords, or even warps

Saving is not an improvement.

Star Fox 64

>>1776841
That game is like 30 minutes tops and you don't get any bonuses to carry over through playthroughs.
Why would it need saves?

>>1776841
But it does have one, dummy.

>>1776838
i wish more people understood this

>>1776878

Saving wouldn't exactly hurt the game in question here.

ITT; whiny faggots that need to git gud

>>1776838
What? What could your logic possibly be behind this absurd blanket statement? Are you telling me I should replay Chrono Trigger from the start every time I take a break?

rolo to the rescue

>>1776862
What? Show me how

>>1776881
i disagree. saves encourage you to play every level exactly once, finish the game, and put it away for a while, but super mario bros. 3's level design reveals more and more about how good it is as you replay it. nearly every level has stuff like alternate paths and hidden items.

maybe the first time you clear 1-3 you'll miss the heaven area and the warp whistle, and then find them on your second time through. it's cool to learn something new about a familiar area, and the realization that there's so much stuff you missed will encourage you to be more explorative and experimental on other stages.

mario 3 is short enough to beat in one sitting without warping, and if you want to get to the last world as quickly as possible, you can get enough whistles within the first four stages. it doesn't suffer at all for having no save system.

>>1776891

Seriously, this. It's almost as bad as /v/ at this point.

>waah shitty controls
>waah why does game y doesn't have function x

>>1776891
ITT; faggots who think beating mario is an accomplishment

>>1777000
What are you talking about? Crying "git gud" when faced with a legitimate discussion topic is just about the most /v/ thing you can do.

On top of that, a lot of games would have benefited from a save or a password feature. The ones that got ambitious and included fucking hours of content and challenge before save batteries were available would be much more enjoyable with password systems. Not everyone has hours to sink into a toy.

>>1776805
>Megaman PW system
>easy to use

That shit was still stupid and annoying and you know it

>>1777017

It's one thing to discuss about the shortcomings of a game, it's different when you make whiny posts about a game you "can't play because it hasn't aged well".

>>1777026
>BUHHHH I CANNOT DRAW A GRID AND PUT CIRCLES IN IT

>>1777030
No one's saying they can't play a game because it doesn't have a save/password feature. Just saying that it'd be a welcome addition.
Password features are pretty simple to add. I'd consider it a shortcoming if a game lasts several hours and doesn't have any method of saving progress.

>>1776981
ignore that anon
it saves records, scores, and "achievements" but it doesn't save in-game progress

that's uh... not quite the same

>>1777000
/vr/ is worse than /v/ right now. I have way better discussions and catch less flack there than I ever did before.

The whole "if you don't like thing, fuck you" mentality is a whole lot worse here, whether it's people posting ironically or not

>>1777035
I'm perfectly capable. But why would I want to?

>>1776991
>i disagree. saves encourage you to play every level exactly once, finish the game, and put it away for a while, but super mario bros. 3's level design reveals more and more about how good it is as you replay it. nearly every level has stuff like alternate paths and hidden items.

This exactly.

I think people who complain about the lack of 'save feature' in some of these old games don't understand those games and are seeing them with the same kind of mentality they see modern games.

Modern games are scenario-driven 'experiences', and have lost the 'arcade' feel of old games.

A save feature in SMB3 would NOT benefit the game at all. Most of the fun comes from replaying the levels, finding out more about them, getting good. This mentality has been completely lost with modern games and that's part of why modern gaming sucks. It is not even expected anymore of most people to play a game more than once.

>>1777042
The elitism complex on /vr/ is ridiculously out of control. Any thread that goes against the vocal minority of "CRT ONLY!"and "BILINEAR SCALING ONLY!" and "[old game X] IS PERFECT FUCK YOU CASUAL!" is guaranteed to get shitposted until it's deleted out of necessity.

I find it ironic that the person you quoted is feeding into that, but made note of it as well.

>>1776881
>>1776991
>>1777050
But SMB3 has a work around for quickly getting you back to, or close to, where you previously left off.
What did you think the Warp Whistles were for? Cheating?

>>1777057
This, I hate it when people come up with bullshit.

>>1777056
You. I like you. Let's start our own internet

>>1777056
>>1777075
You guys don't spend much time here do you?
I'll agree /vr/ has seen an influx of shitposting in the past month, but it wasn't like this before, and it will go away.

>>1777057
I know. >>1776805

That doesn't change what I said, SMB3 is random example (but yeah that makes complaining about its lack of save feature even dumber).
What I'm saying is that complaining about the lack of save feature is only the surface of the issue. The issue is that there is a complete different view of makes a game a game between retro games and modern games, and people who complain about the lack of save feature in games like fucking Mario clearly don't understand that difference of point of view.

If you grew up playing games which save your 'progress' every 1 minute (and not just in adventure games, even in 'arcade oriented' pure action games) and in which you are NOT expected to replay any part of the game more than once (besides maybe dying a couple of times), you clearly won't understand the mindset behind retro games without save features.

>>1777050

SMB3 on the Advance had a save feature and it didn't affect my enjoyment of the game at all.

There is nothing wrong with save features in old games, stop trying to find retarded scapegoats to justify your hatred of modern gaming.

>>1777056

Don't forget that you don't really like certain games, a YouTube told you its bad and you came to /vr/ to parrot his opinion.

>>1777080
I'm here at least every day, I have a direct link on my home page. This is something I've noticed getting worse over time.
I have no doubt that it will go away, but it's not likely going to be soon.

>>1776895
>Are you telling me I should replay Chrono Trigger from the start every time I take a break?

I'm not that guy, but of course not. Some games are long enough that saving is a necessary evil, and some games have such shallow gameplay that there's not much to be gained by replaying. Chrono Trigger is both.

>>1777080
been here since day one, buddy.

It's ALWAYS been this bad

That's been said since day one, too

>>1777087
I hate to say it but it is summer. It's near the middle of summer in north america and I believe that's where the influx of shitposting comes from. I don't believe summer effects the main boards as much(they are always shit) but smaller ones like /vr/ are actually effected by this.

Sorry for so much offtopic discussion.


As for save features. Long RPGs? Yes. Action/Platformers? Why would you need it most of the time?

>>1777097
>Why would you need it most of the time?
You wouldn't.
But there are several games that would really benefit.
Metroid for example.

>>1777095
No it hasn't. I've never seen more civil discussion on this board, then any other board on this site, hell probably the whole internet.

>>1777103
I agree with that. Save systems are useful but I just hope noone has the mindset that every game should automatically have a save system. Some games just aren't meant to be played that way.

>>1777104
Hey, I'm not trying to argue. I'm not saying good discussions don't ever happen here. But there is no way you can say that /vr/ hasn't had these kinds of problems since day one. It's a given. And it HAS gotten worse.

I doubt you go to many other boards, but I could be wrong. For instance, I get lots of civil discussion on /n/ even with the influx of shitposters lately. And I'm in a really good metroid thread on /v/ right now

/x/ has great threads, too, once you realize we're all just fucking around with eachother

As for the rest of the internet, people come here thinking they can be naughty. Which you can, sure. Be naughty, have fun. The problem is they take that "be naughty mentality" and ONLY that mentality and take it to other sites, not realizing that THIS is the place for that, if any. Not Leddit. Not Imjurrr, not anywhere else. It devalues the delicate culture anon has on 4chan, and shits up the rest of the internet

>>1777109
this

>>1777085
>SMB3 on the Advance had a save feature and it didn't affect my enjoyment of the game at all.

it would have affected mine. if the NES original had a save feature, i don't think i'd remember so many little things about it even decades later. i bet that's true for a lot of people.

SMB3 has things that are just plain memorable, though, like the flying ships, killer sun, bizarre powerups, and the like. I played in on NES when I was a kid, but only actually owned in on SNES, where it had battery backup saves. I never even noticed the difference.

>>1777103
How would Metroid benefit from having battery-backed saves? It has a password function. I swear /vr/, you pick the most inane stuff to complain about.

>>1777249
passwords suck

>>1777249
Confirmed for playing it on an emulator
>most tedious password system on NES
>massive fucking game
A battery save would of made the game playable in the modern age

>>1777159
Yeah, SMB3 is still great even with saves. My argument is that its strong points are even better in a saveless system, and that warp whistles are a clever way to avoid the downsides of not having any saves.

I was just thinking about Super Mario World and how you can get a cape or a blue yoshi or whatever you want for every single level. They don't feel special anymore because there's no scarcity.

And I don't see any other way SMW could handle them with its persistent save system. If there was only one blue yoshi and after you lost it it couldn't be replaced, that's a big feature lost to your save file forever. Most people would reset the game and load their last save.

SMB's saveless system doesn't have any of those problems. Tanuki suits and such are exciting to use partially because they're so powerful, but also because they're rare and if you mess up and lose them you can't get a replacement. Infinite P-Wings would be terrible, but they're awesome as a unique thing you only see a few times in a playthrough.

How does the GBA port handle that? Does it just let you farm powerups like in SMW?

>>1777109
Definitely. There are a lot of cool things game developers wouldn't be able to do without save systems. All I'm really saying here is that saves aren't always a good thing, and some games are better off without them.

>>1777249
It was on disk in Japan, used some space on the disk to save games.

>>1777263
Oh you mean like how the 3ds has save states?

Maybe you're the one stuck in the past when everyone else including the creators made this obsolete.

>>1777249
The original version of the game had saves you idiot.

>>1777263
>Confirmed for playing it on an emulator
Don't be retarded, nothing I said "confirms" or even implies that.

Metroid's password system isn't tedious. It takes about thirty seconds to punch in. The game also isn't that big; it's designed to be beatable in under three hours. Are you sure you're not the one who played it in an emulator?

>>1777292
They weren't battery-backed, idiot.

>>1777273
I'll be completely honest here: I don't care. This is an English-speaking website; the NTSC cartridge version is the one most people on 4chan will have played. When that other anon said "Metroid needed a save feature" it should be pretty obvious he wasn't talking about the inferior disk version.

>>1777295
>20 random characters
>OH YEAH I CAN JUST PUNCH THAT IN
Average playtime for metroid is 9 hours too.


I really don't know why you keep on saying such retarded things.

>>1777035
It took me years to figure out you can just write the coords.

A5 B2 D5 D4 C5 C1 B4 C3 E2

>>1777310
>you keep on saying such retarded things

Says the guy who takes 9 hours to beat Metroid.

>>1777306
>inferior disk version
lolk

>>1777326
>>1777310
>>1777295
>>1777263
Blimey, you can smell the testosterone.

>>1777297
The original FDS version had saves. Does not matter how it was achieved, it had them. This means the game was designed with the ability to save in mind, so it would make sense to give the NES version battery backed saves for the same functionality, but I think it may have been released before any NES games used battery saves.

>but passwords
They're long and annoying, and saves are a much more elegant and convenient solution. They make the game much easier to pick up and play, and easier to stop playing as well since you don't have to kill yourself and write down a password first.

>>1777350
>The original FDS version had saves. Does not matter how it was achieved, it had them.
Right, the issue of them not being battery-backed was a bit of technical pedantry on my part. It doesn't really change much though, because check this out:

>They make the game much easier to pick up and play, and easier to stop playing as well since you don't have to kill yourself and write down a password first.
Incorrect. Metroid has a suicide code (you pause the game and press up+B or something, I forget) which you can press to instantly retrieve your password. The FDS version has this suicide code too. In both versions of the game, you have to die to save.

Crying about passwords general.

>>1777378
Huh, I wasn't aware there was some input to kill yourself.
Regardless, saves are much more convenient.

>>1777401
>saves are much more convenient
They are, but it was Nintendo dabbling in new technology, and the idea of having in-game "save points" wasn't thought of yet.

>>1777047

>But why would I want to?

Thanks for proving how lazy your generation is

>>1777306
>has shit opinion
>"they made it this way because it's better!"
>evidence shows otherwise
>"i didn't play it so it doesn't count"

Pfffthahahahaha

>>1777413
>implying you've played the disk version

The disk version has painfully long load times. It's actually much faster to input a password than it takes for the FDS to load your save file (or load a new area, for that matter). There's no way in Norfair you'd prefer the FDS version if you actually played both.

I dunno, the spouse and I sat down and played SMB3 from start to finish the other day without warp whistles. It took like three hours and we never really felt like a save feature was needed.

And honestly, with how prone saves are toward being lost in old NES cartridges, I'd rather they use a password system anyhow.

Faxanadu, for example.

>>1777429
>with how prone saves are toward being lost in old NES cartridges
I figured we were talking more about what would have been better at the time. Obviously battery saves ain't doing so hot nearly 30 years later.

>>1777426
I never said I've played the disk version, but I'm also not going to to claim it doesn't count because of that, you fucking child.

>>1777407
>your generation

u wot m8

Plok could have used saves, or even a password system.

>>1777450
>that guy who starts saying "child" and "kid" when he's losing the argument

>>1777450
not him but I'm sure you would rather put in a password than deal with FDS loading dude. Also you can just snap a picture of the password on your phone.

>>1777407
Fuck off faggot

>>1776991
>i disagree. saves encourage you to play every level exactly once, finish the game, and put it away for a while

I stopped reading right here because you're projecting. If continuing your progress encourages you to never play a game again, explain why I've gone through Mega Man 1-3, X, etc so many times in my life.

Maybe that would encourage YOU to play like that, but don't apply that to the rest of us, least of all me, who's played a ton of NES games over and over again.

I wish a lot of games would just create temporary saves the are deleted when you resume. You can retain tight control over difficulty pacing like this while letting people take breaks, without the breaks becoming exploitable.

>>1777470
Is it really difficult, though? I consider something like Ninja Gaiden more difficult than Mario 3, and Ninja Gaiden won't send you back to stage 1 until you do so yourself.

It's not really a 1 to 1 with these games.

>>1777473
I meant to say "is it difficulty" there.

>>1777457
>losing
He brought up a good point. The other guy didn't even stick to the argument at hand, he just implied things that hadn't been said and grasped to it as if it made a difference.

>>1777457
>that guy who posts anime reaction images when he's run out of counter-arguments

>>1777460
You can take a picture of it, but you still have to go through the process of entering the password. And in a time when digital photography wasn't something people had access to, the password system in place of saves was a bad move.

>>1777487
>bitching about anime reaction images on a site made for anime discussion
That guys a retard but saying that puts you on his level

>>1777491
>bitching about anime reaction images on a site made for anime discussion

What in the world are you even going on about?

>>1777494
I would recommend looking at what site you're on and lurking before posting.

>>1777502
I repeat: What are you even going on about?

No one here is complaining about anime. He called that image an "anime reaction image" because it is, in fact, an anime reaction image.

You getting instantly defensive over that makes you look extremely stupid. And that's enough on this, because it's not related to the thread.

>>1776991
/thread
/topic
/boards
/internet

>>1777470
This. Temp saves are great.

>>1777508
That was my only post in this thread, I'm not being defensive, just calling out the facetious moron.

>>1777521
>I'm not being defensive
Isn't that a defensive statement in itself?

Solomon's Key (or at least a pw system)

Excitebike

Adventure Island 2 (Here's a code that lets you continue from the last island after you restart! Oh, but without your dinosaurs and axes).

Hydlide

Most Megaman games (because if you figure out the pw system, you're pretty much set with tanks for life).

>>1777996
Solomon's Key was an arcade game though, wasn't it?

>>1776806
fucking this, i never finished this game because of this. I always had to stop playing for some reason, and this shit doesn't even have password.

>>1778062
And an NES game.

I was never able to beat the All-Stars version of 3, despite the save feature. My save was at world 8 and I eventually lost interest after repeated failure. I officially admit that I am a casual.

>>1778203
Nah, contrary to what people who have been playing these games since they came out would have you believe, the first few Mario games get properly hard near the end.
It's only after SMB3 that things start to get real easy. World is a joke by comparison, even taking into account the special world.

>>1777470
>I wish a lot of games would just create temporary saves the are deleted when you resume.

That's the perfect system

>>1779330
But muh savescumming

in the cartridge days, password systems were cheaper to implement than SRAM. there are modern rom hacks that implement saving to saveless/password-games. SMB, SMB3 and Willow come to mind at first.
but... why any psx game has a password system is fucking beyond me. why??

Impossible to finish thanks to the worst password system of all time.

>>1777317
Same. I used to draw the grid as a kid everytime I wrote down a password in Mega Man

>>1777156
How do you feel about SMW saving?

>>1777004
ITP; faggots who think beating a videogame is an accomplishment

Game isn't retro, but I think Hydorah had a pretty cool save system. You had a limited amount of times you could save, and you could save after any stage you wanted, so you could practice any part of the game that gives you trouble, but ultimately, to beat the game, you had to get good enough that you no longer needed the saves.
How does /vr/ feel about such a system.

>>1776805
>>1777084
> Spending 20 minutes to collect flutes is the same as instantly starting where I left off.

No. The warp system/flute system in SMB 1/3 mitigates the save feature, but SMW is still better for having a batter backup.

>>1776773
Milon's Secret Castle.

> You will never experience leaving your NES on for two weeks straight to beat games with no save or PW feature, including SMB/SMB3, while simultaneously hoping that you don't get a gray screen of death that erases your progress.

>>1782443
I thought it was extremely fair, especially since Galactic Inferno and No Mercy give you more saves. Though it is easy to cheese the game by running through the easy levels over and over until you work up a generous save stockpile for the rest of the game. Might as well just cut the complications and put up a save prompt after major levels instead.

>>1782443
The ability to restart from a save point completely nullifies trying to get a high score in that game.

>>1782512
I'm asking how you feel about the system in general, not the actual game.

>>1782524
Well that's how I feel about it in an arcade game, like that one was trying to be. Temporary saves or no saves at all. Infinite-reload saves are too exploitable.

There's no defending password systems because all they really were were the ability to save before sram was common. And before that games had level shortcuts or even level select cheats to get back where you were.

Obviously saves are the best way. Nintendo has gone a bit too far by supporting savestates though.

>>1777306
The point was it was originally designed for it, and entering passwords is tedious and not fun. You sound like you'd defend that retro indie fame that included a password save feature. That shit is nit fun game time. It would have been great with a save.

When you have 6 friends over hot seating metroid and everyone wants to go a different way and you don't have a play guide that shit is not less than three hours. Never saw anyone neat that until we heard about justin bailey. Metroid was a mind boggling huge maze when it came out. Saves would have been nice.

Okay, the fds version sucked apparently. Should Zelda have had a password system since its so fucking convenient.

Metroid us should have had battery backed up saves like Zelda got. Totally reasonable and true. You're insane.

>>1777103
To be fair, it had saving on the FDS version, so they clearly designed it with that in mind.

>>1777270
The GBA version actually supported the e-Reader, and let you scan cards to access special original levels and also give yourself as many items as you wanted. I personally loved doing that because I hated losing the cool suits in SMB3 (still do actually) and wanted to always have hammer suits and such. I mainly stopped because I've played SMB3 too many times to find it very interesting anymore, and the scanning was tedious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjyKk4lQC3k

>>1777124
I'm not trying to argue either. Funny thing is the boards you mentioned are some of the other boards I go on. I'll admit I'm a newcomer to /n/ so I'm not entirely sure how civil that board is. /v/ does always have it's moments. MGS threads can go either way. /mu/'s a piece of fucking dogshit, but I still go there for some reason.
Anyways, both of those posts you replied to here was me. I forgot to add my thoughts on save systems in my original post.

>>1776773
Many, many, many N64 games that required the controller pak, aka Memory Card. I also guess you could fault Sony for requiring memory cards when the N64 and Saturn didn't require one, and Sega for going back to requiring a memory card.

>>1782632
>inviting friends over to watch you play a singleplayer game
So you were one of THOSE kids...

Passwords do have the advantage over saves of letting you skip straight to different parts of the game or increasing your inventory/lives/etc.

Is your time really so precious that taking a few seconds to jot down a password and another few to punch it back in seriously diminished your enjoyment? You should be drawing a map of Metroid anyway..

>>1782873
>Everyone comes over
>Hardly any games are 3+ people anyway
>Maybe no one wanted to play one
>You die, you give the seat to the next kid.
Do you into childhood?

>>1777295
>takes about thirty seconds to punch in
>isn't tedious
>thirty seconds

seriously?

Especially since you have one life for the whole game and it is kind of long

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kuc1E-QEA6U

The megaman passwords werent that bad if you made your mom write them down for you

Tetris

Dat password for transferring your characters from Golden Sun to Golden Sun 2 tho.

>>1786301
not retro

>>1776773
No game should have required batteries.

>>1776773
Well you could just get the flutes and go back to the world you were playing when you stopped.

>>1776838

But some people have busy lifestyles and even on weekends don't have 2 or 3 hours to spare. How do you suggest people like them beat games like these in one sitting?

>>1786341

Year-wise no
Tech-wise yes

It was pretty much a SNES in your hand

>>1777537
The point that was trying to be made is the guy who implied that the use of an anime reaction image is, by some means, a concession of point is a fucktard because it's supposed to be standard practice and is well ingrained into the culture of the website. Therefor clown fucker's point isn't mutable by the fact that he posted clown fucker.

Valis and The Wing of Madoola for the Famicom. Both of them are really crappy games to begin with though, but thankfully, they were never released outside of Japan.

>>1786805
>Valis on the famicom
Fuck that game is so hard. I completed the first stage and gave up on the second, shit's a goddamn maze.

>>1777487
>in a time when digital photography wasn't something people had access to, the password system in place of saves was a bad move.

What is a pad of paper.
The addition of solid state save hardware to early games wasn't really worth the cost at the time. They didn't foresee spoiled people complaining about the systems in the future when it was great to be able to continue your progress at all when the games came out.

>>1786396
They don't. And it's perfectly fine that there are things you just won't have time for in your life.

>>1777494

>site made for anime discussion
>retro games

seriously though, fuck anime

legacy of the wizard

>>1787424
Nah, it's more perfectly fine that there's a save feature so people don't have to beat a lengthy game in one sitting.

This entire series in fact. What the fuck was Culture Brain thinking not having battery back up in the mid-90s?