/vr/ - Retro Games

>>1775335
Just buy the proper television instead of buying an addon to make your shitty television into a mediocre one.

>>1775892
what's more expensive, an upscaler or a CRT

for that matter which is easier to find

I just want my games to not look like shit but I can't spare the cash or space for a second TV

>>1775901
Then just fucking wait until you've moved out of your parent's place and have a stable job until you dedicate your free time to a hobby that can get expensive.

Also, CRT tvs are really goddamn cheap unless you are trying to find a specific model. Sometimes people will pay you to take them away.

just upscale that shit

>>1775901
CRTs are cheap. Most people don't want them. Every Goodwill in my area has several in stock always.

>tfw still have my old CRT
>tfw almost all modern games look like shit on it due to low-res and unreadably small text

>>1775914
Sony's Triniton CRTs support Component. You won't get widescreen but it does help

>>1775901
you can find CRT's on the side of the road man. Or go to a thrift store they have hundreds of them

>>1775335
Most retro games (anything before ps1, dreamcast etc.) output at best, a 240p signal.
Getting a good crt to play nice with a 240p signal is much more straightforward than faffing about with upscalers, scanline generaters, line doublers and the like.

If you really do want to use an upscaler though, I'd recommend a thorough reading of this site (http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/)) to see which option best suits your setup.

>>1775919
That's weird my Trinitron only has composite inputs. That must be because it's from 1990 though.

>>1775925
Mine's from 2004

I hook up my 360 and PS3 to it via component, everything else is composite or S-video where possible

It FEELS like the component output is better than the composite for the 360 and PS3, but I'm not really the best judge of that

>>1775928
360 and PS3 should be on an HDTV

>>1775932
well I don't have one, so I work with what I have

>>1775335
>generic HDMI to Composite/S-Video Converter
>Even considering this
>mfw
Unless you want your games to look like absolute shit and have nasty input lag, don't buy one. Just get a CRT TV. Even those with standard RCA cables alone will look a hell of a lot better than nasty upscaled, smudgy, blurred to hell garbage on a LCD. If CRT is not an option for you at all and are strictly LCD but still care about your games looking good, consider getting an XRGB. They're made with retro games in mind and do an amazing job line-doubling the picture from pure RGB with almost no discernible lag. They're expensive though, but they're your best option as far as HDMI shit goes.

>>1775892
reminds me of those fucking persians who work in radioshacks

I come for a decoder and they try to sell me a plasma tv and a cellphone

Best solution is to grab a good CRT. A Sony Trinitron or something similar; refer to the CRT thread for more info.
If you need an upscaler specifically, due to lack of space or whatever then shell out the $400 for an xrgb framemeister.

the mini av2hdmi is actually surprisingly good for the 30 bucks on amazon.

look on craigslist for good CRTs they literally give them away for free all the time. if you go on right now I bet there's at least 2 in your area for free or extremely cheap. if not, wait like a few weeks I guarantee you can find a free one in good condition that someone will be happy you're taking off their hands.

CRT guys please get back to your containment thread.

>>1775335
That thing is a piece of crap. If you want to get a good, cheap upscaler, use a lenkeng.

the LKV360 and LKV361 are great and cheap. some guy on youtube has a video of genesis through it and it looks amazing.

also, read up on this site if you haven't already:

http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/

>>1775909
>i don't want to buy another TV when i don't have to
>guess you're still living with your parents, kid

This is why people think /vr/ is elitist trash.

>>1775924
>>1776584

Hey look, a total of two people who actually read the OP before sperging out.

I was interested in this too, so thanks for providing some decent information.

Also since we're not in the CRT thread, I'll take a moment to point out why upscaling >>>>> CRTs.

First off, you can get the exact same scanline effect with a nice upscaler. There are even some cheaper options that look great.

Next, CRTs are ugly as sin to anyone not completely autistic over retro games. Most people will find it plebian as fuck.

CRTs are large as fuck. This is one of the main reasons so many people switched over to flatscreen back in the day. Also, I always see people with the tiniest little rooms crowded with their gaming "collection" and only about 2 feet of space for gamin, with their massive CRT crammed in there. Truly plebian

Screen size. the best CRTs are small as fuck. I guess that works for those plebian rat holes with 1 foot viewing distance, but otherwise people will prefer their 60 inch flatscreens.

Finally, latency is pretty much a non-issue, the high rated upscalers give close to none. Not that latency is even a problem though, your brain adjusts to it in a split second. This is coming from someone who can do 10s and 11s on DDR on a flatscreen with easily over 100ms latency

Ignore the CRT freaks in this thread. The best upscalers like the XRGB Mini have virtually no downsides except for cost.

>>1776607
While I agree with your opinion of upscalers+LCD being superior, I find the name calling unnecessary.

Additionally, latency is not a non-issue. It's certainly a problem, but not as big a problem as people make it out to be. You're right when you say that you adjust to it. It's natural. However, when you get above 75ms, it's a bit excessive.

But yes. Upscalers are the way to go.

>>1776607
>This is coming from someone who can do 10s and 11s on DDR on a flatscreen with easily over 100ms latency

There's a difference between audio latency and video latency. You can play a rhythm game just fine with that kind of latency so long as the audio doesn't have any delay. Totally different beast from playing a game like, say, Punch-Out with 100ms delay where the cues are based mostly on sight than sound.

>>1775892
>>1775909
>>1775914
>>1775919
>>1775923
>>1775928
>>1775925
>>1775984

I DON'T WANT TO BUY A HULKING 100 KILOS PIECE OF GARBAGE JUST TO PLAY SOME FUCKING SNES GAMES. MY APARTMENT IS SMALL AND I'D LIKE A GOOD SOLUTION TO UPSCALING GAMES TO A HDTV, FUCK OFF TO YOUR CONTAINMENT THREAD.

>>1776696
Well then I hope you have a couple hundred to spare.

>>1776696
THEN EITHER PREPARE TO SPEND HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS OR USE SHITTY, JAGGY, LAGGY CRAP. IF IT DOESN'T TAKE RGB IN THEN YOU CAN TELL INSTANTLY IT'S A WASTE OF MONEY

Just get a cheap DVD recorder that takes Composite, S-Video, Component and outputs Compositve/Component.

They deinterlace 240p signals and remove artifacts, then your TV does the rest. Set it to Game Mod eor whatever and there's no input lag. They're cheap to buy used specially if the DVD drive is busted.

>>1776696
>some of the comments weren't even directed at you at all
>one of them even gave the proper suggestion of a good upscaler
>could just ignore the shit that won't help him, but instead chooses to take the immature route
Residents of said "containment thread" often suggest scalers to those with little room, so I don't see why you're getting so worked up.

A decent scaler WILL cost you quite a nice piece of change, this is undeniable.

>>1776727
I imagine it has more to do with the fact that there are like five posts out of thirty that addressed the OP's concerns, while the other twenty-five are dodging the question and telling OP to get a CRT, despite his reasons for not wanting one.

A of of /vr/ tends to do this when a thread doesn't align 100% with their own opinions, and it's getting to be a big problem just look at the crowd emulator filter threads draw in.

>>1776727
lenkengs can be had for under 50$. Upscaling is pretty cheap now.

>>1776734
Which is completely understandable, but quoting (some) of those posts in particular just seems silly.

And yeah, there is a definite sense of "my way or the highway" when it comes to almost every topic on this board.

>spoiler
As someone that had been in emulator threads on /v/ pre-/vr/ and the emulation threads on /vg/, I've known to avoid them like the plague. The stupidity of some of the things brought up in some of those threads is just mind boggling.

>>1776696
don't play retro games then

>>1776757
>implying CRTs are the only way to play retro vidya

>>1776757
>i don't want this large, superfluous piece of inferior equipment
>somehow barred from playing games before 2000

Why are you even in this thread?

>this thread

If you're going to settle for shit then you might as well just play on your big HDTV anyways OP. It's already upscaling your image to horrible quality with delay after all ;)

>>1776696

Then buy an XRGB Mini Framemeister for a few hundred dollars and the cables it needs for about 60 more

>>1777164
your really adding a whole lot to the thread

>>1777171
holy crap are people not even reading the thread?

First check out lenkengs if your not ready to take the plunge on an expensive upscaler

>>1777183
You're*

Thank you, yes I am.

>>1777192
nice sarcastic post faggot. I bet you're momma real proud.

>>1776696

Why the fuck don't you just run a SNES emulator? Because if you hook up a SNES to and HDTV you're throwing accuracy out the window anyway.

>>1777209
Your*

I'd say she's decently proud, thank you.

I've come to a conclusion based on your posts and seemingly strange acceptance with upscalers:

3rd world shithead who doesn't know English = Upscaler fans

1st world, clean and intelligent English speaking individual = Authentic

Prove me wrong.

Micomsoft XRGB-3 or XRGB-Mini if you don't mind not having VGA out

>>1777192
Thanks for the tips, Reddit!

>>1777228
>English speaking
>individual

>>1777183
why bother with a worse upscaler just to take the plunge? It'll just end up costing you more in the long run

>>1777224
Have you ever heard of upscaling? Have you even read the thread?

I don't know if i can handle this thread anymore

>>1777250
how so? Lenkeng's actually look awesome IMO. If you really want scanlines you can run a slg ..I think those cost like another 50-100$? Still alot less than a framemeister

Upscalers are shit, but line-doublers can be good. Line-doublers can theoretically have insignificant latency, and they allow you to use superior 31kHz CRT monitors.

>>1777280
Have you ever used a Lenkeng upscaler they are the opposite of shit they are very good. You should buy one and see how good it is.

>>1777280
You don't know what you're talking about

framemeister has <16ms latency. Not that latency even matters for shit in most games

>>1777291
Framemeister only has that good latency when used in line-doubler mode with VGA output. And latency is critically important for every action game.

>>1777291
It doesn't matter when you use a Lenkeng upscaler even less lag that your Japanese garbage for a fraction of the price.

>>1777309
AFAIK there are no upscalers that operate line by line like a line-doubler can. They all work on whole frames, so they unavoidably add at least one frame of latency. Post proof if a better upscaler exists.

>>1777309
i'd rather buy Japanese garbage than Chinese one

>1777324
Haha enjoy losing yuan on your terrible purchase weeb.

>>1775912

What is that? Vomit, or a wet shit?

>>1776769

Why are you even on this board?

>>1776607

Did a CRT enthusiast fuck your mother, or something?

>>1777267
>But if you use upscaling there's no difference between a CRT and an LCD!

This entire thread has to be bait.

lmao at the people who are too cool for CRTs

you're better off with emulation than with upscaling to an HDTV tbh

I can't believe people are saying that input lag is no big deal, jesus christ

>>1777432
There is a difference, upscaling makes you able to play the games on large, non-plebian monitors, and look nearly exactly the same with scanlines and all. Upscaling > CRTs 100 times over.

I heard some autists are able to detect slight disturbances in the space-time continuum, such as a 10ms delay. This may cause rampant seizures and having to change diapers

>>1777394
nah, their reasoning for preferring CRTs over upscaling is just dumb . Also trying to counter the usual approach they take to these threads.

>>1777445
you adapt to input lag in an instant. Everyone knows actual hardware will always trump emulation also. And if you want scanlines, something like the framemeister or slg does that with less interference than shaders

>>1775335
>>1776696
If you want the "best".

240p (Pretty much everything up to N64/PS1) ---> XRGB-Mini

480p (Dreamcast, GC, PS2, Wii, Xbox) --> Lumagen Vision HDQ (Best combination of scaling quality and price)

If you have a mix of both types of systems, the XRGB also has D-terminal input for component-based games if you want to save money, but the HDQ has the best scaling.

Don't listen to the guys saying to not bother. Almost any system can look gorgeous through a quality upscaler. (Note, some 240p systems need to be RGB modded to make sense in using an upscaler)

>>1777309
Enough with the Lenkeng disk-sucking, we get it.

>>1777480
I get it you need to rationalize wasting all the money on an XRGB when you could've just gotten a Lenkeng but that doesn't mean you have to bully.

>>1777490
I sense some projecting in there.

>>1777504
No projection only pity friend.

Lenkeng upscalers are some of the best OP, I've found that XRGBs are basically the equivalent of a wet dog turd with jaggies and shit, can't handle it.

Lenkeng I got a really nice crisp and clear image, try it out OP, just don't roll with those shitty upscales like XRGB

>>1777513
>>1777504
>>1777490
>>1777480

framemeister is obvs the best choice, but lenkengs are good quality and cheap. that is all

>>1777465

So you're trying to instigate a flame war. Nice.

>>>/v/

>>1777549
my original points were discussing a number of actual points. The brutish manner was in response to the CRTfags approach... We can still have discussion like this.

>>1777559
original post*

>>1777534
I'm hoping this is that image-swap glitch

>>1777458
60Hz LCD means you have sample-and-hold blur. LCD is only acceptable with emulator + black frame insertion at 120Hz.

>>1777305
>And latency is critically important for every action game.

2-3 frames of lag is insignificant because no human can react that fast. Most people playing action games don't react to shit in 1 frame, they instead have enough experience to predict what is going to happen or play mind games (opponent uses uppercuts every time when waking up, I just knocked him down, oh guess what the fuck he is going to do again when waking up). And even if there is some latency in a high-speed game, you can easily adjust your own timing for that.

This whole cryout over 1-2 frames of lag is bullshit.

>>1777209

Nice grip of your and you're faggot.

I'm sure your mother killed herself after she saw how you turned out

>>1777614
Yeah, latency is barely an issue. CRTfags just like to defend their 2 tonne "antiques" plebian garbage they picked up in a dumpster

>>1777621
thatsthejoke.jpg

You're brains are top notch

>>1777598
>60Hz LCD means you have sample-and-hold blur. LCD is only acceptable with emulator + black frame insertion at 120Hz.

What if I'm using a digital projector that can do a picture size of over 2 meters? It shits all over any CRT/LCD/Plasma as far as size goes, but it doesn't support 240p so it needs an upscaler, and older projectors don't even do deinterlacing so 240p looks eye melting on them as it is displayed interlaced - only every second line is updated.

>>1777614
>implying latency sensitivity has anything to do with reaction time

A good drummer can tell when a beat is off by 5ms. A frame at 60Hz is 16.7ms.

>>1777629
If you're talking DLP, that has even more disgusting motion artifacts than LCD.

>>1777614
>This whole cryout over 1-2 frames of lag is bullshit.
Enjoy never beating Tyson in Punchout.

>>1777630
>implying drumming = videogames

As someone who can do 10s and 11s in DDR on a hdtv with atleast 100+ ms latency, it's not much of an issue.

Also pretty decent at bullet hells, and it doesn't matter much there either

>>1777639
that punch out example is the only one I've ever heard. I'm taking you guys play this game on repeat on your CRTs?

>>1777630
Being able to tell that a static, REPEATING rhythm is off, is not the same as physically reacting to a videogame. It doesn't involve
1. mentally processing what you saw in that time interval
2. coming up with an appropriate response (even if it is just a reflex button push)
3. turning that mental response into muscle action.
4. the actual speed of your muscle action.

>>1777640
Top tier reaction time (as required by anybody playing at competitive level) is 150ms. In a great many games you are competing with other players to react first. 100ms latency will mean you lose every time. Even 10ms will hurt your score noticeably.

>>1777640
>Also pretty decent at bullet hells, and it doesn't matter much there either

In bullet hells you have to keep track of many objects and calculate their trajectories to come up with an optimal "blind spot". A few frames of lag makes fuck all difference there.

Hell I can 1cc Keio Flying Squadron (usa ver) on hard on my plasma tv in Cinema mode (not even Game mode), without upscalers. On first try after not touching it for 2-3 years. And that game has pretty bullshit difficulty on hard.

>>1777652
>Top tier reaction time (as required by anybody playing at competitive level) is 150ms. In a great many games you are competing with other players to react first. 100ms latency will mean you lose every time. Even 10ms will hurt your score noticeably.

<citation needed>

>>1777640
>>1777645
>>1777651
Your astounding abilities of argument have won me over. I'm throwing away my PVM I payed a grand total of $20 for and getting myself a Lenkeng so I can play on a real adult TV. I can't believe I didn't see what a plebeian I was and that all the people around me were surely laughing at my choice of TV for video games. I sure hope I can get somebody to help me lift it though you know these CRTs are way too heavy for my adult muscles.

>>1777663
someone should go over to shmups forum and ask

>>1777664
good choice. maybe now that you've got rid of that antique you can start focusing on escaping the plebian underworld, getting a place with more than 1 or 2 foot viewing distance, and finally getting a respectably sized HDTV. Maybe then you will be able to gain the respect of your peers and family

>>1777678
>Threw away my CRT years ago
>55" LED TV now
>Only drawback is no lightgun games
Light gun games were fun, but I can't fucking tell the difference in most games. The PS3 ps1/ps2 upscaler is pretty damn solid.

Guess people just have a boner for weird shit. I couldn't fathom paying 400+ dollars to get an RGB mod on a NES... it seems fucking crazy to me.

>>1777651
You're still confusing reaction time with latency.

Latency is the time from pressing the button (which is often done subconsciously, faster than conscious thought) (and which is often done based on prediction like the drumming example) to the light hitting your eyes. You adjust your internal model of the game state based on this, and the tighter the feedback loop the better.

In real life the closest analogy is mass. Latency makes the controls feel heavier. Low latency (tight feedback loop) makes the controls feel light. If it's fast enough the controls "vanish" and the game feels like part of your own body. You "use the force" and you score kills or dodge bullet formations without awareness. It feels like you're possessed or something. I've scored kills in Quake 3 that seemed almost unbelievable. There's a tiny flicker of movement, my hands twitch on their own, and I get the kill. There's no subjective time delay at all. It's the same feeling of distorted time perception you can get with meditation or psychedelic drugs.

Anybody who plays action games at a high level will understand this, and they'll know that latency makes it much harder to get into this state. It's a great feeling, and it makes you win, so it's hugely important.

>>1777690
there are led capable light guns now! you can use the wiimote, and a bunch of PC ones. I think all the light guns from ps2 and before can be emulated now .

I agree about the RGB-modding NES thing. They were never made like that in the first place anyways, like wtf?

>>1777691

twitch based shooters is another good example where latency is important. But I don't think these games look better on CRTs.

I can't think of any older games where latency would matter that much. (aside from punch-out).

As HDTV technology improves and CRTs become even older and gradually start to look like crap, I'm guessing there is still going to be people who cling to their claims that <5ms of delay is perceptible. It reminds me of "golden ears" audiophiles who think their overpriced placebo Monster cables have a "sonic signature" or some shit. Interestingly enough, it's a huge faux pas in these audiophile communities to suggest that these people might be full of shit and that they should do a double blind ABX test to prove that they can ACTUALLY NOTICE any difference with their overpriced voodoo audio gear.
I'm guessing if you did the same sorts of tests with some of the obsessive Autismal things that /vr/ gets a huge boner over you'd get the same result; they would not be able to perceive a difference between a game run normally and run with a few frame lag. Also they'd probably notice very little difference from using some 400 dollar RGB mod on their old console vs. S-Video or some such. A lot of the stuff that gets obsessed over here give off the stink of insularity, elitism and confirmation bias run amok. Of course some of this stuff DOES make the gaming experience objectively better, more accurate, or with better picture quality, etc, but this sort of stuff seems wildly exaggerated. It's not a bad thing to be a stickler about audio/video quality and the like, but if you're so (anal)ytical all the time you're going to ruin your ability to just sit down and actually enjoy a game for what it is.

>>1777701
The Sharp Famicom Titler had RGB output. I'm not sure how similar the hardware it uses is to the RGB mods that people do nowadays. I'm guessing there's some sort of color correction going on with the Sharp Titler that is not otherwise implemented with a simple soldering on of a new RGB chip.

>>1777720
best post ITT

something I'd like to add is, alot of the hardcore arcade gamers on the shmup forums swear by upscalers. Some even swear by emulation. /vr/ is the only retro community I know where the autistic level of CRT praise is so evident.

>>1777727
Every single one of my friends as a kid has one of those come on man.

I think a good question would be: what sort of monitors did the developers use when designing/testing their game?

>>1777720
>some 400 dollar RGB mod
Only the NES requires this. Most older systems either support RGB out of the box or require a cheap/simple installation (Maybe 50 bucks max). And the difference in quality is VERY noticeable/perceptible, whether viewed on CRT or LCD.

Though I do agree about the ms delay part.

>>1777740
sega systems, yeah the difference is fucking massive. Other systems, not so much. SNES and Saturn composite is pretty fucking good. I don't own a neo geo so can't say much on that

anyone interested should check this out

http://www.chrismcovell.com/gotRGB/screenshots.html


Also I think he was talking about the NES because it seems like it was never meant to display RGB in the first place.

>>1777752
This makes me think that if you're using an HDTV and you just care about picture clarity, then emulators would be generally the way to go. But is this really what the developers intended for the game to look like? They thought you'd be using shitty composite that makes the sprites look like their covered in gauze or something.

>>1777752
His photos are really washed out, though, which makes the "emulator screenshot" look way better than it in fact does.

>>1777776
Arcade games used RGB. Arcade games are the reference standard to which console games are compared. DOS era PC games used RGB with high resolution monitors.

Both use the same art techniques as console games.

>>1777776

I'd like to know what sort of monitors developers used at the time. Does anybody here know that?

Also, I feel like you're losing alot more than just picture clarity when using emulators.

>>1777792
Still, it looks like the RGB and composite pics were taken with the same camera. There is an obvious difference for some of the systems.

this page of his is even better

http://www.chrismcovell.com/gotRGB/rgb_compare.html

>>1776660
Unbelievable cost, added input lag, and the end result can be achieved with an emulator + filter/shader for free.

>>1778615
>Unbelievable cost,
It is the highest end scaler. There are cheaper options.

>added input lag,
Insignificant amount. In fact it may even REDUCE input lag of modern TVs by providing a hidef signal that bypasses their internal shitty upscalers.

>end result can be achieved with an emulator + filter/shader for free.

Poorly and not for all consoles.

CRTs are objectively better for retro games. I don't know why this makes people so mad. Maybe it's a small difference, but for me it's worth it to keep a trinitron around to play video games on. Maybe if you live in a small place or really hate CRTs for some reason it isn't, but don't pretend that an upscaler connected to an HDTV is just as good, it isn't.

>xrgb makes Resident Evil unplayable

Just wanted to interrupt this argument really quick to say that that really sucks.

>>1778692
Is this because of the mid-gameplay resolution changes?
It sucks but there's only a couple games where it's an issue. Also only the Framemeister/mini has trouble with that; an xRGB 3 handles it fine.

>>1776589
By all rights /vr/ should be a predominantly older crowd.

>2014
>accusing your retro pals of being underage

>>1778641
>objectively better
>why this makes people so mad
>its a small difference
>really hate crt's
Crt's are small as fuck, take up a huge amount of space. Every person I've met irl who has a boner for CRT's is also a massive faggot.

>upscaling connected to an HDTV is just as good
Its barely noticable the difference, but you sound like the kinda guy who would pay 400 bucks to RGB mod his NES

Interesting to see how times have changed.
10 years ago flat screen tv were almost exclusively owned by rich idiots. A CRT was a normal thing.
Just 5 or so years ago if you only owned a CRT you were just poor.
Now if you happen to have a CRT then clearly you must be retro hipster scum.

>>1778791
Why expend $400+ on a upscaler instead of a $50 superb CTR ?

>>1778791

LCDs are laggy, ghosting shit and pixel art on them looks like blocky ass compared to the sweet phosphor glow and scanline filtering of a CRT. Deal with it.

>>1777720
most of the fuckers on this board would never notice anything <25ms. Which is a bit over 1f.

>>1777720
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1JUbCoLKxs

>>1778791
i like how you know you're wrong so you resort to ad-hominems

CRTs are what retro games were designed for and how they are best played. deal with it.

>>1779113
You act like the difference between CRT and LCD is night and day, but its so small that you can't tell.

If they made CRT's as big as they made LCD you'd run into the same problems.

>>1779121
yeah its a small difference, but who cares? crt tvs are basically free, if you have the room it's totally worth it

>>1779121
>its so small that you can't tell
N64 fan detected.

For those of use who play fast paced 60fps games, the difference is huge. The only way to get good motion quality for console/arcade games on an LCD is with emulation + 120Hz black frame insertion as supported by RetroArch.

>tfw ironic shitposting is still shitposting

Is the upscaler marketer back?

All LCDs have at least 21ms of input lag no matter what you do. And that is the absolute best case scenario.

Response time =! Input lag

>>1779830
>Is the upscaler marketer back?
This is /pol/-tier paranoia. Just get it into your head that we don't all want to be a part of the CRT circlejerk

>>1778836
you can get an nice upscaler for 50$ now. throw in a scanline generator and you have a massive display with BVM-like scanlines.

>>1779841
My 120Hz LCD has less than that.

>>1779841
I think some of the higher end models go lower than that. Aren't plasmas also better in that regard? I'm not sure about led either. If we're talking about all options too, there is also DLP

>>1780052
LEDs are almost completely same as LCDs with the only difference being that the backlight is realized using LEDs, most of them still use the TN panels for displaying stuff

>>1777471
>Everyone knows actual hardware will always trump emulation also.

LEL

These days, most retro system emulators that aren't the N64 or Saturn are more than accurate enough to make the actual hardware obsolete, and emulation carries tons of advantages in and of itself.

>>1777471
>something like the framemeister or slg does that with less interference than shaders

Ummm, you can do scanlines anyway you want with shaders. No need to spend a fortune on upscalers for that.

>>1777720
As someone with an rgb-capable genesis and a PVM I can tell you that there is a huge difference going from s-video to rgb. With my setup I can actually have composite / s-video and rgb running all at the same time, and the difference is very noticeable, although it makes more of a difference on some games rather than others.

I'm no crt autist though, my choice of setup was informed by two key criteria, the first was cheapness and the second was ease of setup. I have no problem with upscalers and properly modded consoles (or even emulation in certain cases). I chose not to go that route because it seemed complicated and expensive. Why would you pay that much money to play games that are over 20 years old?

>>1781758
I'm sorry you need save states

>>1781848
* I can actually have composite / s-video / rgb running at the same time *and switch between them with the push of a button

>>1775335
>This bait thread is still alive

HOW

>>1781758
>most retro system emulators that aren't the N64 or Saturn are more than accurate enough to make the actual hardware obsolete
Sure, that's probably the reason why I can't even pass the first level in Klonoa 2 on PS2 emulator because those blue flying little shits are completely misaligned and don't serve their purpose at all.
Also, why does everyone in J&D 2 has black eyes? Does it really look like the same on the actual console?
>inb4 taking the bait

>>1781891
Some people couldn't grasp the concept of sage

>>1781901
> ps2
> retro

>>1781901
You're a dumbass. PS2 is not a retro system. I never said newer systems have good enough emulation to obsolete the real hardware.

>>1781854

I don't use save states very often beyond resuming from a previous gameplay session.