/vr/ - Retro Games

Wario's woods turned me off wario completly as a kid.

I got that game expecting an epic dark adventure through some seedy woods.
I got a fucking puzzle game instead.

Fuck wartios woods, and fuck Yoshi on NES too.

Wario Land 2 is pretty amazing, but I must be the only guy who legit thinks that 3 is the best in the series and one of the best platformers ever made. I mean, it's basically 2 except with a more open world structure and more emphasis on puzzles and exploration. Why it gets the hate on here is beyond me.

>>1755672
I felt the metroidvania aspects of 3 were stifled by the game not having a single, interconnected level.

>>1755672
This.
WL3 will alwys be one of my favourite GBC games, and one of the best 2d platformers ever. The sheer fun I had with findig all 4 trasure chests in every level reminds me on Mario 64.

>>1755672
Wario Land 3 is fucking incredible and anyone who says otherwise can come right on down to my house for a spanking.

It's not even close to the original Wario Land and Virtual Boy Wario Land. No deaths or consequences for screwing up sucks ass.

>>1755770
I have to agree. The original Wario Land is the only I really replay. I remember the first time playing WL 2 and thinking to myself, "Where are the different helmets/abilities? Why can't I die?" I was pretty disappointed at first but I managed to finish it.

One thing I really liked about it, however, is all the different routes in the game you can take leading to different endings/final bosses. (I know they're all Captain Syrup but they're still different.) I never bothered with 3 because it looked pretty much similar to 2.

Wario Land 4 is still the best though

>>1755652
Why is it so good, OP? Serious question. The "no death" thing kinda turns me off, not because I'm Mr. Hardcore but it does seem like the fun of a platformer comes from making it through cleverly designed stages. What makes it great?

>>1755737
>>1755740
Same question for fans of WL3. And please don't link me to that guy's huge book about its design.

>>1755672
Yeah, 3 is better in almost every way. I'll just leave this here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AH70CwY__Ms

>>1755652
Wario Land 2 and 3 are the best in the Wario series, and some of the best of the best in the entire Mario franchise.

Best platformers for the GBC, for sure. Wario Land 1 and VB are cool, but the continuous fun exploration, not being able to die, with using enemies to power you up are part of what made 2 and 3 great.

Can we all at least agree that 4 is the pinnacle of the series? (Yeah I know, not technically "retro" bugger off)

>>1756232
>and some of the best of the best in the entire Mario franchise.

Nope

That title goes to this bad boy. Still hasn't been topped.

>>1755660
Wario's Woods is great as a puzzle game. When you first play it and you're expecting a Mario/Wario platformer, yeah it's a dissapointing piece of shit. If you like Tetris/Dr. Mario type games, this shit is pretty fun and entertaining

>>1756213
In simple terms (for WL3), the levels are actually incredibly cleverly designed and the concept of no-death is a non-issue because the real challenge becomes correctly utilizing both the character's own abilities (which you supplement by getting certain treasures later in the game) and the enemies which simultaneously act as either hindrances or power-ups depending on the level itself. At its core, the game requests that you come up with a plan to use these resources properly and then execute the plan. The game will punish you for failing, but in a unique way. Usually either using the wrong plan or failing to use enemy-given powers well will force you further back into a level (which dying would do in any other game) except in this game, your punishment is context sensitive and instead of sending you back to the beginning of a level, it sends you back (usually) to the beginning of the challenge you failed. In other words, the game forces you to perform perfectly to proceed, but because the game doesn't kill you, you can practice and retry difficult portions without very much tedium.

Brilliant game, in my opinion.

>>1756247
My thoughts exactly. brilliant games

>>1756241
God damn thats still one of my favorite games of all time.

>>1756206
>(I know they're all Captain Syrup but they're still different.)
Oh nevermind. I didn't remember correctly. I think you only fight Syrup 2 times if you want to 100%.

>>1756237
I enjoyed 4 immensely but I still think the crown goes to 3. 4 sacrificed too much of the exploration and metroidvania-esque gameplay, while being a great "go fast" platformer on its own.

>>1756213
What >>1756247 said. Instead of deaths, you get thrown back by enemies and traps. The levels are designed cleverly enough to still be a challenge as every enemy or trap still counts, either as a hindrance (throws you back at the beginning of the screen/puzzle/challenge, forcing you to re-think strategy) or serves to help you beat the puzzle if used as a powerup. No deaths is not an issue at all as it's just that well designed to still set you back with traps. That aside it's just a great and very unique platformer that manages to preserve the exploration aspect of the Metroidvania-type games with multiple disjointed levels, by leaving so many progressing branching paths and secrets in them. WL3 is particularly good at hooking you up, as it makes you collect all of Wario's powers that you need to proceed through levels (as compared to WL2 where you already are fully powered-up).

>Yoshi's Island
>Wario Land series
>Wario's Woods
>Donkey Kong Country series
>Donkey Kong '94
>Dr. Mario
>Paper Mario
Maybe I'm alone on this, but it seems to me like the Mario spin-offs are better than the actual Mario games.

>>1755652
Yoshi's Island had very bad level design.

>>1756359
how so? care to elaborate?

>>1756359
No it didn't. The game has a pretty close to perfect difficulty curve, every level has something unique about it, they all do a good job of introducing a concept and doing most everything worthwhile that can be done with it, and getting 100% is challenging but rarely bullshit.

>>1756213
the design book is from wario land 4, which DID have dying as a thing.

>>1756213
The no deaths thing isn't really a problem, since the game is designed with that in mind. Wario's jump, for example, isn't that high relative to his environment. This forces the player to have to interact with most enemies, since the usual Mario-esque option of jumping or flying over them isn't available.

And it's not like you aren't punished for failure. Other than being sent back in the level, you'll also lose coins upon being hit by an enemy or obstacle. Coins are the driving force in the game, as they're needed to both get the panel at the end of the level and help in getting the treasure within the level. If you suck too much, sure you can eventually beat the level, but you'll have fuck all to show for it.

Aside from that, there are many other things I would say are brilliant about this game. Each level is unique and brings something new to the experience, and the game is just full of secrets and rewards for exploring.

>>1756237
I have only played through 3 and 4 (and a little of 2), but I think 4 is by far the better game.
Having all the abilities and being able to 100% a level the moment you enter it is a lot more enjoyable than warping between each level and unlocking some small thing in another level that lets you proceed just a little bit further in another one. It just feels like a really cheap way to extend the game. And it's not like WL4 has lack of exploring; for the karaoke mode you need a 10,000 score on each level which often means you need to find all the jewel, CD and heart cases AND the big diamonds (+kill some enemies) in a single run.
I also think the level design is better. Each level has a unique theme, lots of things to find and a hurry-up that totally changes the pace (and . The best thing about it is that the location of cases and even the puzzles in purple pipe rooms are different in all difficulties which really adds the replayability. Also, Super Hard provides an actual challenge (at least before you find the big heart box).
And when it comes to rest of the presentation, it's like comparing Metroid 2 to Super Metroid. The graphics, sound effects (especially Wario's voice) and music are just so much better and little things like music morphing during different forms (and even slightly during crouching) really nail it down.

>>1756237
No, fuck off back to /v/.

>>1758267
Wario Land 4 is really good. It doesn't get the love it deserves. Probably because it's a GBA game, and some retrogamers tend to ignore the GBA. Kinda silly if you ask me, the GBA is just as good as the GB/GBC.

Kinda hard to say which is my favorite though, between 2, 3, and 4. I like the first one a lot, but the others are far better IMO.

>>1756241
So ggod.

>>1755652
>yoshi's island
>good platformer

choose one

Let me guess you also think SMW is a first class platformer

>>1760403

>>1760410
I know, I'm sharp as fuck . But in all srsns, the games are babby-tier no challenge platformers

>>1755652
>Perhaps it's even better than Yoshi's Island

Ok. You've had your fun. Ease up before you hurt yourself.

>>1755652

The big 3 :
DKC 2
Yoshi Island
WL 2

>>1760412
>But in all srsns, the games are babby-tier no challenge platformers

yeah but they're really, really good no-challenge platformers.

the point isn't to narrowly escape from certain death, it's to explore a fun, varied world with lots of secrets to discover and different ways to approach the same situation

I hated Wario Land II on release and I still hate it now. Everything about it just felt like a middle finger to what made the first game great. There's no dying, no punishment for failure, and most infuriating of all, to me, is they ditched three save slots for that fucking terrible autosave system that is an extremely effective anti-replayability barrier (not that the game having no challenge isn't one already).

>>1760484
>no punishment for failure
Blatantly false.
Failure usually results from taking a single hit, and can sometimes waste more of your time than if the game just let you die and restart at some checkpoint or whatever.

>is an extremely effective anti-replayability barrier
The game has tons of branching paths though. Depending on what you do you can go to totally different levels and fight totally different bosses. Have you even played it?

>>1760787
Blatantly true, idiot. You lose 6 coins when you get hit, big fucking deal when enemies respawn and re-drop coins infinitely.

Content is not replayability. Please stop confusing the two. The game isn't done being played through the first time when you still haven't beaten all the stages.

>Wario Land is favorite gameboy game
>sequel is released....for virtual boy
>never heard of Wario Land 2 on gameboy

OP pic explains why. "c 1998". Gameboy was obsolete as fuck in 1998.

>>1760840
>You lose 6 coins when you get hit
Or you could get stung by a bee, float up to way earlier in the level, and have to waste a bunch of time getting back to where you were.
That's the sort of thing I'm talking about, and it happens all over the place.

>>1760484
Have you ever played a wario game, cumsmasher?

The "no death" aspect is what made the game challenging because while you don't die, you DO receive damage (or an unwanted ability) that competely fuckup what you were trying to do and get.

At the same time, some branching paths only can be unlocked if you DO receive damage (Like for example, being on fire or smashed flat), which is not possible in a game that uses the normal life/hp system.

>>1760852
Not really? It's the same year Pokemon came out in the U.S., and also the year Game Boy Color came out. It wasn't obsolete "as fuck," it was just barely obsolete.

>>1760864
>Have you ever played a wario game, cumsmasher?
Why yes, a real one.

>>1760903
That's a reskinned Mario.

>>1760864
>which is not possible in a game that uses the normal life/hp system.
What is Wario Land 4

>>1756241
I remember I got so good at that game back in the day that I could beat it in around 2 hours, like a metroid game. I might pick it back up just to see how bad I am at it now.

>>1760903
The original Wario Land and Wario Land VB are pretty overrated, I think. They didn't take any risks, gameplay wise.

>>1755770
>No deaths or consequences for screwing up sucks ass.

Nonsense. Most of the time you'll undergo some transformation that hinders your progress and forces you to backtrack a bit, which is the same as starting again from a checkpoint. Bosses will always try to kick you out of the screen so you have to fight them again.

>>1761268
grind

>>1761239
Keep in mind, Wario Land 1 was still SML3.

>>1761290
That's less than what dying would do to you in any other game you cock.

>>1761290

And dying/going back isn't?

>>1761239
I don't see how Virtual Boy Wario Land is at all overrated.

I had nothing better to do the last two hours and just emulated WL 2 and its fun as hell.

Maybe you are right, its a bit too easy, but I was not looking for a challenge but for something to kill time and for that its great.

But pic related, that damn motherfucker. It took an eternity for me to realize that you have to crouch to stop being blown away. I just assumed I did something wrong to trigger his wind attack.

>>1762310
As a kid, that guy drove me insane for the same reason. My older brother was the one who figured it out.

>>1762310
For me the game should have had a time, and give you a score based on coins + time with many endings.
That way whenever an enemy hits you, stuns you, makes you lose time, it would feel like the game has some difficulty.

>>1762634
Again, I'm sure if I would have bought that as a "serious" game for good money to spend the next weeks, than the difficulty may be disappointing.
But as a relaxing pastime its incredible fun. I do not care about highscores or finding all the treasures or other extras; I will just go through the game once and then go to WL 3 (or the fourth if I still have interest, people said it was good as well)

And to be honest, I normally suck at plattformers, the only one I had as kid was a Ducktales game and it took ages to finish that. Tried to play some Mario games later, but it was too hard/frustrating, so I am a total pleb in that regard.

>>1762613
I guess I'm halfway through the regular game at that point and it still was the most annoying boss.

>>1756357
I'm a heretic who's favorite "main" Mario game is Super Mario Land, so for the most part, I agree even if I'm not a big fan of Donkey Kong Country.

>Unlock weird bonus level in WL2
>Those horrible jumps you had to do

The world needs more games like WL2 and Kirby's Great Cave Offensive

Just going around getting treasure and shit

>>1756357
Wario's Woods, DKC, Dr Mario, and Paper Mario are not better than the top two or three tiers of mainline Mario games.

>>1761694
Not the same Anon, but I've heard quite a few people say the VB Wario Land is the best one.

The best Wario games are the first 5, Land, Virtual boy, 2, 3, 4, which is from 2001 or 2002 iirc. The only good Wario game since then is shake it, but it is not great.

The only great Donkey Kong platformers since Rare's is DKC2 and the last one, Tropical Freeze.

All the 3D Mario platformers have been great, not even Sunshine is bad.

The only great Donkey Kong platfor

>>1756237
WL3 is pretty much the top, but WL4 had great graphics, music, and sound direction that made it one of the best GBA platformers.

>>1765627
>Warioware is bad

>>1756237
I dunno, Wario Land 4 is much more streamlined but it changes the formula in weird ways. There's more of a focus on platforming and it is, in many ways, a very unique 2D platformer. But it's not like the previous Wario Land titles. One could say that the Wario Land series has never really been consistent, but WL3's progression system just felt extremely fluid and progressive, and in terms of rewarding the player, it feels much more satisfying. While some hate on the idea of having some of the "traditional" elements of Wario's moveset to treasure boxes, I think it gives the player a fantastic sense of satisfaction upon returning to levels and trying out new abilities.

In regards to the discussion of difficulty, Wario Land 2 and 3 can be very hard. They focus on impeding rather than halting progress, and some of the later levels and challenges in the game are just brutal. It's a game that takes a good deal of time to 100% or even "complete" if you want to sound lazy like that.

>>1756237
I don't enjoy wario land 4, I don't like the new physics, I don't like how every level becomes and escape mission, I don't like how you can't explore a portion of the level until you start the escape sequence, I don't like that power-ups are rarely implemented.

I could never get into Wario Land 2 all that well.

Now I might be wrong (I never did beat the game), but I'm someone who likes to be able to go back to a level and find the crap I missed. Wario Land 2 doesn't let you do that. If you miss something important and reach that exit door by mistake... your fucked till next play thru

>>1766458
This. Wario Land 4 didn't have the same atmosphere as its predecessors. You get so focused on acquiring the gems and keys while racing against the timer that the overall visual appreciation of the level becomes lost.

>>1764827
I disagree.

>>1766503
good thing there's nothing preventing you from playing a level as long as you want, like a timer, or being forced into the level goal.

>>1766503
If you beat the game once, you unlock level select. It'll also show you all the other possible paths for the different levels on the level select screen.

>>1767174

>>1767174
>>1767186

The branching paths for alternate endings to the story was one of the things I really liked about WL2. I remember having a lot of fun trying to 100% the game with every ending.