/vr/ - Retro Games

Umihara Kawase Shun

>>1741160
>fly over everything
great platforming

>>1741221
Please tell me that's tool-assisted otherwise I'm never playing a video game again out of shame.

>>1741160

I thought it was really unimaginative

>>1741238
>intentionally making the game easier when you don't have to
>missing items
>not exploring
It's like you don't know how videogames are supposed to be played.

>>1741250

Heh.

>>1741247
>Get to ride a dinosaur with a long tongue that eats everything
>Said dinosaur has different breeds, each with different abilities
>Multiple branching paths that lead to a secret star world
>Completing bonus levels yields great rewards, one of which includes a back door entrance to the final level
>Switches that unlock different parts in other levels
>Very sophisticated and intuitive camera system
>Goals at the end of each level that, if timed correctly, can reward you with a bonus stage
>An original and vibrant art desing
>A music score that is still to this day some of the best in the series

>>1741263
Not to sound like a critic, but none of the yoshis were any useful besides the blue one.

>>1741274

Donkey Kong and Metal Gear Solid Ghost Babel are THE prime examples of how you do controls.

The amount of actions at your disposal with only so little buttons is insane and should be mentioned whenever somebody asks for good game design.

>>1741265
>extra hit which is recoverable if you act quickly
>access to several different attacks including a very easy to perform ranged attack which is not dependent on the shell you have
>Can get extra height off of jumps by jumping off his back
>seriously and extra hit that you can recover how is this not any useful I really don't understand

Super Metroid

Personal favorite, Mr. Gimmick comes close as well, but that's mostly because I like my games hard as nails.

>>1741293
Although they did a good job cramming all those controls into a metal gear game boy title it's not necessarily what could be called good design.

By design it's already flawed as it has too much shit and not enough buttons to do all those actions comfortably, as in, ideally (and unrealistically obviously) the game would actually be better if it had more buttons at its disposal, so they already have to work with an inherent design problem and adapt to its limitations.
It's a good game, and the possible metal gear game on a game boy hardware, but it's really not a thing you can point at and call it good design.

>>1741323
Super Metroid is terrible at plateforming.

>>1741352
lol

>>1741354
By far the best Sparkster game.

Good choice.

>>1741361
There are no more Sparkster games. Don't try to peddle me that other shit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NS2h7ppMj4

>>1741250
>intentionally making the game easier when you don't have to

That's not the point he was making.

There shouldn't be such an easily-abusable mechanic like that in the game at all. SMB3 had lots of exploring and outright demanded it, and it didn't have anything remotely as broken as the cape.

>>1741353
I'd laugh too if someone said it was a good platformer, let alone the best.

>>1741250
>intentionally making the game easier when you don't have to
>It's like you don't know how videogames are supposed to be played.

using every resource available is how games are supposed to be played. they wouldn't be there if you weren't meant to use them

>>1741160
Super Mario Bros. 3 is the epitome of 2D platforming. nice try though.

>>1741328

>yuke yuke! trouble makers!

Mein Neger

Every other Treasure platformer is also golden.

>>1743114

One of the few games on the N64 that wasn't a massive fucking disappointment.

>>1743086

Wow, really? How have you not suffocated by now, hipster-san?

>>1741221
that looks like such great fun, what platform is that for, anon? I'm very intruiged.

it's like a reverse inspector gadget

>>1743585
Not him, but Umihara Kawase Shun is on PS1 and it owns. Its predecessor, Umihara Kawase on the Super Famicom, is just as good and probably a better starting point.

There's a new one you can get as a digital download on the 3DS called Yumi's Odd Odyssey, but I haven't tried it.

I think they're the best platformers ever made. They're full of branching paths that will take you on completely different routes, and the coolest thing about it is that you won't be able to reach most of them until you've put a lot of hours into the game. You now how Metroid games have areas you can't reach until you have the right powers? Umihara Kawase does that too, except in its case the power is your own mastery of the grappling hook. There's nothing like it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuxgAAPXKk4

>>1741160
It's a close match, between SMW and SMW2, but I think SMW2's (far more)charming atmosphere clinches it at #1. It's the game that has come closest to perfection, in my book.

>>1741250
This. Super Mario World was so much more about just exploring and willingly challenging yourself to the different courses or subzones for the sheer fun of it, than it was about just "beating the game".

>>1743787
>Umihara Kawase on the Super Famicom, is just as good and probably a better starting point.

Or he could just get the DS collection and bounce back and forth between the two as he likes.

>>1741239
No, it isn't.

>>1741250
He's a millennial, what do you expect?

>>1743096
It's that as an option... otherwise it wouldnt drop from the sky and float down to the bottom of the screen.... it'd just sit there hovering above your head waiting for you to touch it so you'd get your cape 'n fly away.

I swear... u gamers today. Unless it says "you will need this or you cannot progress through this level" then you ARE NOT REQUIRED TO USE IT EVEN THOUGH ITS PART OF THE GAME AND MADE AVAILABLE TO YOU.

>>1743886
Even as a kid i'd start new saves and never unlock any ! blocks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sfs-evy26l8

>>1741160

This and DKC 2.

>>1741160
Jazz Jackrabbit 1, Donkey Kong Country 2 and Rayman are some of my favorites, but if I had to pick my favorite platformer, it would be Yoshi's Island.

>>1743106
this guy knows what's up

>>1745769
That game was shit. Playing it made me feel like I was sinking into a swamp or quicksand.

>>1743585
If you're interested, you can find a bit more information on the game and the series in general at http://kawasefan.net/umihara-kawase-shun

>>1741221
bionic commando ripoff

>>1743063
Nice, it's almost like you really don't know what the P-Wing is.

>>1747373
Absolutely. The grappling hook mechanics are nothing alike, but the part where she kills Hitler in midair with a rocket launcher is pretty derivative

>>1741160
That's either between Klonoa Door to Phantomile or the Megaman X series.

DKC1+2, mario lost levels.

SMW has zero challenge, don't know how people can rate it so highly

>>1744813

Do you need to know Japanese to play the game?

>>1747519
Because it's fun.

>>1747564

None whatsoever. The games literally had no plot until Natsume came along and the pause menus are easy enough to figure out with a little trial and error.

>>1746847

Someone opened up a new fansite? I'm quite pleased to learn of this since I didn't get to see the old one before it shut down~

>>1747564

None whatsoever. The games literally have no story and the pause menus are easy enough to figure out with a little trial and error.

>>1746847

Someone opened up a new fansite? I'm quite pleased to learn of this since I didn't get to see the old one before it shut down~

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7Iu_GOxsE0

>>1747519
Its fun, thats how

>>1748553
>Its fun

*It's fun

Shantae.

>>1748470

>not learning kana well enough to navigate menus

I'm not fluent at all, but even I know Kana significantly better than even that. It isn't hard.

>>1741316
Not even him but you can legitimately do all of that with the blue yoshi. I don't see your point. The blue yoshi could fly after eating any type of shell. The other ones make a useless but cool earthquake and a fireball. Why on earth would use choose the green yoshi over a fucking flying dinosaur?

>>1741160
Sonic the Hedgehog 2 for me, if we are talking 2D.
Super Mario 64 for 3D

Ctrl+F Plok
NONE

What the hell, wankers?

>>1749476
you've been diddled again!

>>1749475
>Sonic the Hedgehog 2
push forward to win
gr8 platformer m8

Mario 3 is the definition of platforming to me, but I think I like Klonoa and Rondo of Blood more. Don't really have anything I'm comfortable with calling my favorite.

>>1749491
didnt play sonic 2 then?

>>1749498
Are you really going to say sonic 2 is a top tier platformer? Do you even retro?

>>1749505
>favorite has to be the best
please return to /v/

>>1749498
Yeah I did and it was piss easy and most of the time all I did was hold forward.

Either Gimmick! or Aero the Acrobat. Sunsoft really stole my heart with these two.

>>1749491
Are you implying that it isn't a platformer? It has more fucking platforms than Super Mario World, and is easily three times as difficult, yet you didn't shit on them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0HdbV-gqxo

Super Mario World has only ONE flaw. Anyone care to guess what it is?

Think about it. It should be obvious.

>>1741160
I'm tempted to name one of the NES or SNES greats, but I have to go with Sonic 3 and Knuckles.

>>1745769
The Genesis version was far superior, granted it was an adventure game in the style of a SCUMM engine game.

SNES: Demon's Crest.
Runner-up: Hagane. In the world of terrible mascot platformers I'm a sucker for unique aesthetics.

Genesis: Castlevania: Bloodlines.
Runner-up: Sonic the Hedgehog 2 / 3+K.

>>1750237
Cape trivializes at least half of the game?

>>1750237

>cape is gamebreaking
>game is too easy even without it
>most of stages looks the same
>few musics, and it repeats for most of stages

It's more than one, but the game still very good.

>>1750250
Nope. The game's only flaw is your "reward" for finding all 96 exits.

>>1750578

Ho was that a flaw?

>>1743124
so how's the platforming any good

>>1750608
Because it screws the whole game up. Makes it ugly as fuck.

>>1750629
That's not the reward for finding all exits, it's the reward for beating SPECIAL.

>>1750237
It's not SMB3

nobody has mentioned this game/series? c'mon /vr/, I'm disappointed in you. I know you can do better than this.

>>1741160
To me, this game is the equivalent of a catchy song

Every time I see a pic from it I just have to play it quickly or watch a video of super mario world to scratch that metaphorical itch

like when you have a song in your head and you just have to listen to it

>>1750780
That's pretty good anon, I like how you think.

SMW didn't make as big of leap forward as SMB3, but it was still really good. I might have to go with DKC though. Donkey Kong just provided a challenge that Mario couldn't. The only thing that was really kind of tough was "Tubular" in the special zone.

>>1748560
Seriously fuck off. Aspergers causes a superiority complex, and yours is showing hard summer.

Ninja gaiden

>>1747392
You don't even need the P Wing, the regular leaf breaks the game just fine by his standards. Levels in SMB3 are SHORT.

Actually, it should be easier to clear a level as Raccoon Mario than with a cape since manipulating the cape properly can be difficult while Raccoon Mario can just run, fly, and mash the tail button to stay in the air until he reaches the end of the level. Actually, my main problem with SMB3 has always been that there are so many boring levels that I can't help but skip half of them with the leaf.

>>1750893
Actually, why am I even bothering to compare the leaf and the cape in terms of abuse-ability. You guys realize these games have items like the whistle and a shortcut through star road that allows you to reach the end of the game in just a few minutes right?

Battle of Olympus

>>1748553
>>1747875
no challenge = no fun . I think those of the plebian mindset might think the opposite

>>1749476

It's not even the best 3rd party platformer on the SNES from 1993..

It's not a bad game, its competition was just 2gud.

>>1750754

I spent a lot more time with Jazz Jackrabbit and Dangerous Dave, but Keen was my first game ever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0DtwhbU3bc

>>1747519
SMW was an extremely well designed game and while it has absolutely no challagne to it it spawned a lot of very good, hard and challenging hacks because of it's engine.

>>1750979
>challagne

*Challange

>>1751008
It is "challenge"

>>1750979
There's challenge to be found in SMW, especially for people who aren't veterans to the series/genre. Shit, I only recently got good enough to beat Tubular consistently without dying.

>>1750789
>getting mad at some shitposting aspie

did you on purpose or by accident forget the "ignore and report" strategy?

>>1751008
Who are you? the grammar police? I ain't afraid of no bitch ass cop!

>>1750979
It's was challenging to me when I was a kid. If they made it too hard, it would've scared away a lot of casual players.

>>1751030
"scaring casuals" was not a thing back then I think. Just look at the Castlevania series, Ninja Gaiden etc. etc. They could and should have made the game a little bit harder as it gets only a little problematic in the post-post-game.

>>1751041
>>1751041
Actually, I'd say it was around when developers started to become conscious of that. Those are both NES games, which were made back before game companies had people to test their games besides themselves and back when the only difficulty they had to compare their games to were coin-eating arcade games. So then, most of the crowd that'd be playing those games had likely already played games in arcades and kind of knew what was up. By the time the SNES came out, it was pretty likely that SMW could end up being someone's very first video game, plus since home gaming was no longer a four letter word, game developers could hire people to play their games and tell them that something might be too hard up front for someone who hadn't played a lot of games before.
Everyone has to play something as their first game.

>>1743063
Warp Flute

>>1751082
Well it must have failed then because I'm pretty sure World didn't sell as well as previous, tougher Mario games.

>>1750237

Yoshi

>>1741348
You silly nigger. That's what makes Metal Gear Solid GB brilliantly designed. It overcomes a limitation in a way that makes it seem as though there was never a limitation to begin with

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRWxNldSl2w

>>1751232
Has nothing to do with level design, might as well shit on SMB1/SMB2 with that logic.

>>1751276
Yoshi is a great addition, it's obviously the cape. However, it was a lot of fun as a kid.

Always thought Sonic was more fun.

Donkey Kong Country 2 is great too.

>>1752012
Gameplay-wise he's broken and a crutch, he's the Mega Mushroom of 1990. Thematically, being able to ride a dinosaur its own reward, though.

>>1752023
>ride a dinosaur its own reward

What am I reading?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aO6VFuUVrg

>>1752023
I do actually like your reply, I'll give you that he was a bit of a crutch. I think what he added to the game (and series) was worth a lot more than what he took away.

>people seriously complaining about cape + blue yoshi

As somebody once said "You get out of this game exactly what you put into it."

Beating SMW is not a challenge. The exploration and discovery in this game is trying to find every secret end to every level that had them.

I recently heard Ken Levine on fucking NPR of all fucking places saying that the only reason games were even difficult in the first place was as a holdover from arcade machines which needed to ensure a steady stream of coins, so people focusing on games becoming less difficult were missing the point, and that fun is more important than challenge.

Thoughts?

>>1752579
I think challenge can be a very fun aspect of a game, so Ken is missing the point by apparently assuming that the two can't work in tandem.

>>1752579
Ken Levine is a failed television writer who saw opportunity in video games.

>>1752579

I don't work in the game industry, but maybe he's right. But even if he is, that doesn't mean games should be a breeze. Why play a game if there's no challenge? Why not just go watch a movie instead?

>>1752903

I agree with this, but there's something to be said about the alienating effect of 'super-hardcore' gamers (which I probably would be considered in some ways) who just want to play either viciously punishing shmups and platformers or complex, arcane RPGs or turn-based strategy games.

There has to be some kind of medium, though. I think games should be less punishing than they were while still being challenging. It's the difference between losing all your lives and starting a stage or section over and losing all your lives and getting kicked back to the title screen. Which I think is what Ken is talking about. But especially in grand strategy games or RPGs, I don't think they work if there isn't some possibility of 'total failure'.

>>1752935

Evidence? I know he wrote a couple screenplays, and that he's writing the script for a Logan's Run reboot, not something I look forward to, but I think 'failed TV writer' might be kind of a stretch.

BioShock wasn't a bad game anyway. Haven't played Infinite but I sort of hate it just because of the 'games are art' garbage it's spawned. I think fucking Dynamite Headdy is a work of art. Or Super Mario RPG. What's so bad about a beautifully-balance, well-designed game that we have to denigrate it as a child's toy?