/vr/ - Retro Games

It's only hard because everything's hidden so ridiculously compared to the other games. If you look at a map and get the weapons and tanks you need figure out where you're going the difficulty is like tenfold less.

>>1731801
It takes some practice to make perfect.

>>1731801

It's only hard in the beginning

avoiding enemies is key to success, instead of engaging everything

>>1731801
Limited control. You cannot shoot at an angle or downward, and cannot crouch. Most of the enemies are floor hazards until you get the wave beam or bombs.

think this game is hard? try battle toads

Apparently the FDS version is even harder.

>>1731807
there are literally tunnels that you HAVE to take a hit when you enter, like some flying thing on the ceiling hits you when you walk through the door

and all those respawning enemies in the tubes, some of them don't freeze on the first hit, some do... so like your shots have to be perfect to keep them from rushing at you over and over again while you're trying to make these precise jumps over lava

and don't get me started on climbing up the shafts

1. NES carts weren't particularly big. They had to prolong the games via a difficulty.
2. Casuals didn't exist as a target audience.

>>1731873
>there are literally tunnels that you HAVE to take a hit when you enter, like some flying thing on the ceiling hits you when you walk through the door

>and all those respawning enemies in the tubes, some of them don't freeze on the first hit, some do...
I don't even know where you're getting this shit. When's the last time you played through the game? Be honest.

>>1731894
Getting hit by the enemies that spawn from pipes while going through a door transition is an actual problem.

>>1731894
There are plenty of rooms which upon entering will randomly have you getting hit before you get control over movement, depending on how the enemies move.

>>1731968
That's true, not at all what the post said though.

>>1731971
Bullshit. List them.

>>1731801
>>1731883

Here's your answer OP. Everything else is wrong.

Metroid isn't the easiest game ever, but I wouldn't call it brutal. Just draw a map and bomb every dead end and suspicious corridor. There shouldn't be any rooms you get too hung up over in terms of combat.

>>1731883
>>1732602

>1. NES carts weren't particularly big. They had to prolong the games via a difficulty.
Incorrect. This is a myth that has only popped up in recent times. Stop perpetrating this myth pls. You're only saying they're not very "big" because it's currently the year 2014 and they're not big by today's standards. Are you saying that back then the studios were thinking "gee in 2014 our games will be considered small, i know - lets ramp up the difficulty to even things out!" Yeah nah. These games were cutting edge.

The real reason games were "omg too hard" back then is because the actual game programmers themselves were the same people that tested the games. They had smaller dev teams y'see. Now because they played them repeatedly they got really flippin' good at them, and in turn they programmed them to be FUCKING HARD because they felt they needed to be more challenging. This information comes from an interview with an actual programmer of famicom games on the show game center CX.

>>1731801
For the longest time I considered the original Metroid to be the only bad game in the series, and even then I considered Zero Mission good.
You can probably guess how that went.

>>1731801

Because it's an older game.

I can't really understand anyone having trouble with metroid unless the only way they could play it was in short bursts over a long peroid of time. Like a quarter of an hour one day, and half an hour the next day, and so on.

If you have at least an hour or so to sit and explore each time you play, you shouldn't have any trouble memorizing the layout of the map and remembering areas that you haven't fully explored yet.

Should I play this game?

Tried it briefly in the past. It immediately put me off for some reason.

>>1732672
whatever nerd

>>1732683
No reason not to. It's so loved that someone will inevitably come into this thread telling you it's one of the most overrated pieces of shit ever. I think it's fine.

>>1732672

Thank you for this answer. I didn't know what you said was the reason for the difficulty, though.

>>1731860
hahaha

whats harder about having saving and music that doesn't sound like shit?

American Metroid so much harder if only for the fact that one has to memorise passwords and for the fact that the sounds are gratingly annoying compared to the FDS sounds...

>>1732714
>passwords make the game harder
Are you retarded?

The FDS version is harder because enemies have more complex behavior. Have you even played it?

>>1731801
Kinda touched on in this thread, but to recap:

1) Bad controls. Maybe not bad for the time, but very restrictive. You can't crouch and you can't shoot at an angle.

2) The culture in the 80s was to make games that were really really hard, so beating them was an accomplishment. Now games are more about the 'immersive experience,' and games that make you start at the beginning with 1/10 of your health when you die are criticized as being 'annoying.'

3) Technical limitations at the time that prevented the programmers from allowing you to save closer to where you are.

4) Technical limitations on what could go into a game meant that the developers couldn't artificially restrict where you go. Unlike Super Metroid or Metroid Prime where you need [insert item] to get past [insert specially colored door], in Metroid the only thing you need to get everywhere is missiles and bombs. Therefore, the game will kick the shit out of you even harder if you wander into the wrong place without a decent stock of energy tanks, some missile upgrades, and a beam upgrade.

5) There are no queues on where to find items. You literally have to shoot/bomb every block in the game.

All this adds up to a much more challenging game experience.

>>1731801
Wut?
With the possible exception of Fusion, the original Metroid is the easiest game in the series.

>>1731813
>avoiding enemies is key to success, instead of engaging everything

I disagree. I'd say engaging is the key to success. If you avoid enemies instead of engaging them, you'll end up with staying at 40 health. Engage the easier ones and get your health up to take spare hits when barging through. Don't bother fighting that won't do much for you, like a zoomer whizzing over your head. If you can't lock it down close to you, just run by it and go on your way.

>>1732760
metroid 2 and zero mission are much easier than both fusion and metroid 1

>>1732745
>3) Technical limitations at the time that prevented the programmers from allowing you to save closer to where you are.

For passwords, yes. For battery backup though, you could theoretically save the entire game at the exact same point by copying all the RAM data and then loading it next time. That's how Maniac Mansion and Crystalis do it.

>>1732735
>Have you even played it?
Yes...yes I have.

>enemies have more complex behavior.

I noted nothing more "complex". Care to elaborate on the differences? It seemed about the same in terms of real difficulty...

>>1732672
What about the second point? There was no casual market either. Programmers today could still program one difficulty, and keep cranking it up to match their skill. They just don't because they have to market it to casuals. There was no casual audience in mind to deter programmers back from making every game Nintendo Hard back then.

Fucking casuals, ruining shit

>>1731801
Metroid was specifically marketed to hardcore gamers who already completed Mario and Zelda, and wanted a challenge on the next level.
>1731883
>Casuals didn't exist as a target audience
Are you underage?

>>1731883
>2. Casuals didn't exist as a target audience.

More like target audiences didn't exist.

>>1732947

Naw, that's Atlantis no Nazo you're thinking of. Metroid is still a very casual game, as all Nintendo made games are.

>>1732024
>List them.
First one that immediately comes to mind is the first rinka room in Tourian.

>>1732745
I kind of like it though. The obtuse aspects are what make it fun. The later Metroids are kind of too easy, they get a bit boring.

>>1732683
It's good
The OoT of Metroid, with Prime being the MM

>>1733110
Nah, it's more like the the ALTTP of Metroid, with Prime being OoT and Echoes being MM.

>>1733110
Probably reading too much into it, but is OoT a term of endearment still?

>>1732672
>mfw I saw that interview on GCCX too

>>1732714
>music that doesn't sound like shit?
That's highly debatable. While it it has more sounds available. I'd say the NES music is preferable, the speed of the intro is a bit better with better bass tone. The intro jingle on the NES has nice warbling to it the FDS is kind of plain. Kraid and Brinstar are pretty much the same. NES item discovery music has better tone and warble. The rest are pretty much the same as well.

>>1733709
Unless you're trying to get a rise out of people, most people agree that OoT is a very good, albeit different game compared to ALttP.

>>1732745
>games that make you start at the beginning with 1/10 of your health when you die are criticized as being 'annoying.'

Are you saying that repetitively grinding health out of enemies (most of which stop dropping health after you fill 2 tanks) for 5+ minutes isn't annoying?

shits easy once you get the ice beam, freeze em, kill em or freeze em and leave em.

I remember when I combined beams in super metroid and just thought OOOOH shit

and as you'd expect, once you get multiple beams the enemy fights are just meaningless, you tear things apart

competent metroid 1 play isn't particularly fun because you just go through all the difficult parts based on memorization of enemies, rather than painstakingly finding all the energy tanks and missles and filling them up

kraid's lair is a fucking bitch if you're not willing to really invest time in the game

>>1733709
It's a term of "tons of people love it to the point where they'll say it's the best game ever conceived, but there's also a good sized camp of people that prefer Majora."

>>1733810
It's an incentive not to die.

When I played through COD4 I would just bust through everything because there was literally no penalty from dying. You started at the same exact spot with full health, and it was quicker to just die than to sit behind a rock waiting for your health to come back.

>>1734053

A better incentive not to die would be simply sending you back to the beginning of the area or save point and making you try to go back through it again better with full health. Harvesting health pellets is just mind numbing busywork that is tedious rather than enjoyable.

>>1731830
please anon, battle toads isn't really hard. once you have good reflexes and memorized when stuff happens, it's pretty easy.

>>1734090
You could say that about most games.

>>1734087

too easy. last time i played through the game i didn't even die once. the only time i was even close was right at the beginning, where getting hit a couple of times will kill you. after i got the first energy tank, it was smooth sailing. if you started with full health every time you died, i think even beginners would be able to make it through the game with very little trouble.

Over 9000 hours in MS Paint

>>1732810

Bro I'm curious, what is your OS? I'd say Fedora.

>>1734105
But that doesn't make it any harder. Collecting health isn't difficult in the least, it's just tedious.

There ought to be a meaningful death penalty, but spawning with low health creates more problems than it solves.

One thing I do like about low health spawning is that it adds gravitas to the times when you have full health. Most of the time people just make do with partial health, so when you do bother to grind up to the maximum, Samus feels really powerful.

>>1734316
>Collecting health isn't difficult in the least, it's just tedious.

don't do that then. press forward. don't get hit. collect health as you go along.

>>1732810
It's only on certain enemies. For example, you know the ones that jump out of the lava repeatedly? In the FDS version their jump height changes every single time. In the NES version, their jump height is set when you enter a room and does not change until you leave. This is due to memory limitations, or so I've read.

The biggest difference is with Ridley though. Same concept applies, he has two patterns of throwing fireballs. In the FDS version he switches between them, in the NES version one is chosen when you enter the room and he sticks with it. The Ridley fight is a joke if you just leave the room and come back until you get the pattern where he throws fireballs farther away, you can stand right next to him and launch a nonstop barrage of missiles because he'll never change to the close fireball pattern.

>>1732745
>1) Bad controls. Maybe not bad for the time, but very restrictive. You can't crouch and you can't shoot at an angle.

How is that a problem? Bombs are useful for more than just getting rid of false floors in Norfair, you know. The reason people don't like the first metroid is because every metroid thereafter has taught players that killing anything that moves is an ideal solution. The original metroid is a game that will punish you for going out of your way to kill before you're powerful enough to handle it.

Personally, whenever I replay metroid, I make item collection my first order of business.

>>1734331

that's what i do, but it's lame for more of the game's difficulty to come from my own impatience than from the enemies and obstacles

>>1734331
Protip>save one of the crateria e-tanks close to the final ascent for your final run so you don't need to grind health, just grab it and you're set.

>>1734087
But having to traverse the area all over again is annoying!

>>1734170
> What is a logarithmic curve for 1,000, Alex.

>>1734378
I didn't say it was a problem, I said it makes the game more difficult.

>>1734421
Misread your post. How embarrassing!

>>1732745
>You can't crouch
One thing I actually like about the original Metroid is that bombs are actually used as weapons. In the other games your ability to crouch and shoot at things means bombs are mostly relegated to an exploration function.

>>1734439
I'm glad you like it, but I think that if modern games were produced that restricted the player's movement in such a way that the only thing he could do against slowly crawling enemies is run away until he finds a special item, it would be widely criticized.

>>1734714
Luckily, you can find the bombs within five minutes of starting the game.

The only hard part of battletoads is fucking clinger winger and its' weird ass timing.

>>1731830
The only hard part of battletoads is fucking clinger winger and its' weird ass timing.

>>1734781
Yes, if you know where they are.

>>1734905
And the snake level.

And the ice level where you get knocked over and fucked up if you don't go fast enough.

And that level where a rock follows you and if you're off by a millisecond zig-zagging down the map you die (haven't been able to pass that, even with saving on an emulator).

>>1735134
And the whole game if you have a second player

>>1732672

>>1734905
That's easy compared to climbing snakes. They both work on memory though.