/vr/ - Retro Games

You posted it OP. Darius Gaiden best game in penny arcade.

>>1707987
It's hard finding a background of any of the final bosses. Then I found OP's picture of Storm Causer.

>>1707990
I tried making some GIFs of them one time. It's pretty laborious work without understanding GIMP scripts.

>>1707984
>>1707990
>>1707987
Darius Gaiden is fucking sweet. I wish MAME would emulate those missing gfx effects though - they were missing out even from the home console ports.

Storm Causer has to be the ONLY boss I don't have a clear strategy against, though. And some forms of Crusty Hammer which are more pain in the ass than others.

Even Titanic Lance is way easier than Storm Causer...

>>1708000
Made them from video dump, I should say. I wish I could isolate the background layer in an emulator.

>>1708003
I can help you out. Which attacks of Storm Causer's are giving you trouble?

>I wish MAME would emulate those missing gfx effects though
Also what effects are they?

>>1708003
This image really needs to be animated already.

>>1707984
Okay, I guess we can make this a Darius thread. Can we all agree that Great Thing is the best final boss in the series?

>>1708013
Nah dawg, get the Burst shit outta here too.

I don't really play SHMUPS I'm really enjoying Galacta. Some anon suggested it in a DOS games thread.

http://youtu.be/3xivu_ju-AM

>>1708021
>SHMUPS
It's not an initialism, no need to capitalize it.

>>1708010
It's pretty difficult to animate it since it throws random speech bubbles and has fadein/out going on while the text is displaying. So you can't just capture it, you need to edit the frames.

>>1708007
>Which attacks of Storm Causer's are giving you trouble?

Pretty much all of them. But I don't remember much from the top of my head since I never pick his route. From the top of my head, he camps the entire screen in the middle leaving you one empty spot which he then covers with a flamethrower. Then he flies into the background and starts blasting un-dodgeable crap at you. I don't remember much else because at that point I've lost all my lives/powerups and just finishing him with the bombs from an extra credit.

For all the other final bosses I at least have a fighting chance, some I can beat even without needing to use bombs.

>Also what effects are they?
The arcade had a function to change either the luminosity or the palette (not sure which) of a background on a per-line basis. At least two parts used it: the huge rotating tube among the space debris (level E, I think), and the backgrounds for the hyperspace boss (Neon Light Illusion). These effects are also missing on the home console ports.

MAME is also missing the part when you enter hyperspace. It just has all sprites missing for a second. On the arcade and in the console ports, you have a cool psychedelic effect where everything moves to the left while also staying in the same place.

>>1707984
I loved Life Force (Salamander) on the NES when I was a kid. I played through the game many times. To me, it had just the right amount of difficulty: challenging enough to make my hands sweat and feel tense, but still beatable without getting frustrating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq08yccCZSw

>tfw the screen scrolls faster and faster and the metal bars are closing in

>>1707984

Tyrian.

Does Tyrian count as /vr/? I think it should...

>>1708010
>>1708003
There we go.

>>1708003
Wait... what. That text is an edit, isn't it?

>>1707984
Thunder Force V was one of my childhood games!

>>1708065
The text is different. and you are missing all the random speech bubbles (I recall there are at least 2-3 variations).

>>1708072
>Wait... what. That text is an edit, isn't it?

It's not an edit, you get a different text on that one ending depending on whether you 1CC the game or not. Also I think the console ports may have slightly different engrish but I'm not sure on that, I'd need to compare the two.
The one I posted is from the Saturn version, that animated one is from MAME.

>>1708007
>Also what effects are they?

Check the background in Neon Light Illusion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uP41BEw6GDI

It's just a mess of two overlayed backgrounds in MAME and the console ports. It's an evil sea of fog in the arcade.

>>1708095
>1000 Hz autofire
>"superplay"
I hate these fucking retards so much.

>>1708095
>The text is different. and you are missing all the random speech bubbles (I recall there are at least 2-3 variations).
Are you sure about that? I've played this game a considerable amount and never encountered any different text.

>>1708102
>1000 Hz autofire

It's built in to the game mind you.

>>1708108
>Are you sure about that?

100% sure.

Bonus 2P version.

>>1708115
>It's built in to the game mind you.
No, it isn't. The default automatic shot rate is much, much slower. This is the rate the game is actually balanced around. What I'm referring to is found as a cheat code in the console ports. It's hilarious how someone could play the game at such a drastically reduced difficulty level via cheating and have the nerve to call it a "superplay".

>>1708108
>Are you sure about that?

Oh wait, I thought you meant the different text based on whether you 1cc the game or not. I'm sure you get different text on 1cc, but I'd need to check about the speech balloons. I may be confusing it with the same ending in Darius 1. One of the two had extra speech balloons for sure.

>>1708120
What happens if you play as 2p only?

>>1708121
It's built into the game, it's one of the DIP switches. Darius 1 has it too.

>It's hilarious how someone could play the game at such a drastically reduced difficulty

They are playing it on Abnormal / level 8 difficulty and purposefully stretch out the bossfights to gain more points. Plus, they are Japanese, they can mash buttons fast enough to crack a watermelon in half with 1 finger, so it doesn't matter anyway.

>>1708115
Just double checked to confirm and there's no difference between Zone W ending text on one credit or with multiple credits in the arcade version. So if there are actually multiple endings besides the 1 and 2-player variants then they must have added them for the console ports.

>>1708102
>1000 Hz autofire

Are you sure it's not just Takahashi Meijin playing the game?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ4lmAFB7d4

>>1708128
>It's built into the game, it's one of the DIP switches. Darius 1 has it too.
Still wrong. First off Darius Gaiden has no DIP switches, second off it's not an option in the setup mode. You're probably confusing it for the unofficial hack "Darius Gaiden Extra", which has turbo autofire as an option because there's a mode in it that allows you to play through every zone in the game in a single playthrough. When you play through that many stages the adaptive difficulty gets maxed out pretty quickly (the autofire still manages to mostly break the game though; the enemy formations, health, and attacks just aren't designed around it). The original game for sure is nowhere near balanced around such a cheat.

The DIP switch autofire in Darius 1 and 2 is fine though, I'll agree with those. You're only allowed three or four shots on the screen at once in them and the firing rate still isn't very fast anyway. In fact it might be easier at times not to use it because you have finer control over aiming when you don't run into the shot limit so easily.

>>1708141
Not even he can shoot that fast actually. That's 16 shots/sec or 16 Hz, while that video uses a firing rate of once per every frame. As the game runs at ~60 Hz that's 30 Hz or twice the shot rate even the limits of human tapping can achieve.

>>1708128
>What happens if you play as 2p only?
I think it's just Tiat sitting at the screen with Proco slumped over.

>>1708046
For the flamethrower attacks just move above or below its head and avoid the other stuff there. The flamethrower can only reach you in the area in front of it. If it shoots one of those homing lasers are you wait until the last second to weave away from it.

As for the background attacks, neither are actually undodgeable. For the first one you need to use this technique of bobbing up and down so that the bullets overshoot your position. Took me a long time to figure that one out. For the second background attack later in the fight you can simply fly your ship in circles and you'll be fine.

>>1708146
Derp, meant "official" hack. Still not an intended design for the original game, either way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA1PERH9i8Q
Not only did this game have a great original soundtrack, I got to learn about planets and such.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-CMqe3Aa9M
This is when I learned its not ok to say bad words while playing the vidya.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRHSi4hBHSM
This is when shit started getting fun.

>>1708146
Are you sure it has no DIP switches or only MAME has none of them hooked up? MAME has a lot of stuff wrong.

I mean I just checked it in MAME as well and there is no alt text for the W ending and no fast autofire but also some graphics are wrong.

I'd need to replay the Saturn version to be sure about the W ending text but that would take an hour.

>>1708206
Taito F3 games do not use DIP switches. You access the operator settings for these games through service menus.

>>1708064
It does and sometimes Tyrian threads pop up here, but they always get trolled and derailed into the ground by one or more J-shmup quarter eater autists who can't understand that some people can appreciate and enjoy the "inferior" style of Western shooters. Fucking assholes.

>>1708064
Of course it counts, it's a pretty lousy game though.

>>1708120
I still keep thinking "wtf?!" when I saw that all of Darius Gaiden (in Zone W) was just an arcade game!

Another Darius thread ruined because MathU is a complete aspie fuck who can't let anyone have their own opinions on the series. Why don't you just piss off already and continue your shitposting at system11, where elitist man children are welcome.

>>1708328
This is the second time I've seen that name thrown around here. Is everyone you don't agree with the same person?

>>1708328
And furthermore why don't YOU return to that place if you feel the need to bring forum drama to an anonymous image board?

>>1708328
Who is MathU? We're just talking about our favorite shmups (Darius Included).

>>1708328
Haha oh wait now I'm remembering things. You're that buttmad poster who couldn't handle someone disliking Burst. Sorry anon, that game doesn't even belong on /vr/ in the first place.

>>1708331
>Is everyone you don't agree with the same person?

No, but I'm pretty sure no one else but him spergs as much whenever Darius Gaiden footage with autofire turned on is linked. Or whenever someone favors an endboss more than Odious Trident.

>>1708392
If you have a problem with a discussion why don't you attempt to engage in it instead of ad homineming?

>>1708367
>Sorry anon, that game doesn't even belong on /vr/ in the first place.

Neither do a lot of Mega Man, Castlevania or Final Fantasy games but nobody seems to mind when those come up.

>>1708407
People who actually care about /vr/ do mind. Typical shitposter defense: "it's OK because those guys are doing it!"

>>1708398
ad homining

>>1708102
It looks pretty darn super to me. I think you're missing the forest for the trees.

>>1708484
Now you're just being belligerent.

>>1708548
Wow I remember that game from an AOL Games download. Never knew the name of it until now. Is it actually good or were my childhood standards just really low?

>>1708507

I have no idea what you're talking about. Syvalion is a 1988 arcade game.

>>1708560
And that's not from Sylvalion, that's from the non-Retro game released in 2009, Darius Burst.

>>1708563
>Giant, gold fire breathing mecha dragon
>Not Syvalion

Learn your arcade games you silly billy!

>>1708554
I haven't played it in 20 years, i just know it was the only shoot em' up i've ever really gotten into
besides that free ps4 one

darius is great, but i think i gravitate more towards raiden

>>1708605
nice dust

>>1708605
COOOL!

>>1708563
The image looks like it's from Darius Burst, but that boss has been in multiple Darius games since the first.

Nemesis (Konami, 1987)
One of my favorite Amstrad CPC games back in the day. It was pretty hard, not sure I ever got past the second level.

Defend of Die, another Amstrad CPC game. It's a solid Defender clone. I was much better at this game than Nemesis.

Is there anyone who's play G-Darius from the Japanese PSN store that can confirm wether or not it has slowdown or button lag?

I've played PSN classics before and noticed that playing discs on the ps3 gave button lag while the downloaded ones didn't, but other's who have played shmups on the ps3 aren't being clear whther they've played the downloaded version of G-Darius or a disc...

>>1709491

All versions of G-Darius, including the original arcade release have slowdown. The only exception is the Taito Legends 2 port, which is a compilation title that everyone and their mother should own.

>>1709496
I see. I have a question about TL2. Is Darius Gaiden the arcade port on that disc or the Saturn/PS1 port? I was a bit annoyed by the whole 2 credit thing. I might get that instead of buying off of the PSN.

>>1709330
I think they were referring to the previous image, featuring a boss only found in a non-Retro Darius game.

>>1709498
I have Taito Legends 2 for PC and everything in it is a new port made from the arcade versions (almost certainly modified MAME builds). The Xbox version features the same games so I'm sure it uses the same system. I'm not sure just how different the PS2 version is from the PC/Xbox one but considering G-Darius is definitely a new port, Darius Gaiden is probably a new port of the original arcade version as well. There's an easy way to check if anyone's interested.

>>1709506
Well... Sort of easy.

>>1709506
Oh, I just saw a video where it showed "CREDIT 7" on the Darius Gaiden gameplay, so I think it's a port of the arcade version.

The only thing I'd be able to buy it for is the PS2, so I'm not sure if it's the same for PC and Xbox. I'm trying to find a reasonable price online since the shops around me don't have it.

>>1709498

TL2 Darius Gaiden is a fresh port but has its own slowdown problems (and no autofire code.) Unlike earlier G-Darius ports however, the slowdown is very mild and only noticeable in stages that are super busy anyway.

>>1709532
>>1709506
>>1709496

Alright. I think I'll go with TL2 instead since it also has Gekirindan and Raystorm as well which I've wanted to play. It would've cost 14.99 to get the PSN card code, and that's the lowest I can find TL2 for the PS2 used anyways. Thanks for the info.

>>1709546

You're welcome. You're going to be in well over your head with lots of fun stuff to try out!

>>1708367
>>1708407
Can we just get along?

bump

horizontal pig disgusting trash

play Doodoopoo like a real man

>>1710647
horizontals > verticals > shit > doodoopoo

>>1710647
Go away troll.

>>1709546
I wonder if they still sell that now.

>>1712569
Not in retail stores. I bought one used and it's being shipped. I hate resorting to buying online because I never know [for sure] what condition it's going to be until I get it. But the seller said it has the case, manual, and no scratches so we'll see...

>>1707984
>god tier
cave

>great tier
raizing, psikyo, takumi

Playing Pop'n TwinBee right now :3

>>1712602
>patrician tier
treasure, compile, tecnosoft, irem

>scrub tier
cave, raizing, psikyo, takumi

>>1712602
Psikyo eh? I only remember one series from them and that's Strikers 1945.

>>1712840
>compile

>>1712840
>cave
>scrub tier

major plebian detected

>>1713506
Compile...Like Compile Heart????? Those guys?

>>1713582
CAVE is about as pleb as you can get.

>>1713591
Kind of. But the ex-Compile shmup guys left to form Milestone, creators of the gloriuos Karous.

>>1709331
Most computer ports of the Gradius series are complete jokes.

>>1713632
But milestone went bust a while ago.

>>1713721
They formed a new company again. Forgot the name...

>>1714068
Klon. Supposedly, though. I know Kou Hayashi and Daisuke Nagata are there. I wish they would make a new full-length game already.

>>1713610

why, because they're popular? pls. nobody makes shmups with same complexity as cave.

G-guy...c-can I play too?


Yes, the game is piss easy, but it was a part of my childhood.

>>1714204
In fact the vast majority of shmups are more complex than cave's.

>>1714204
except that zun guy

:^)

>>1714298

give me one one example.

>>1714318
R-Type

>>1714318

>>1714325

lol.

>>1714334
lol yourself

>>1714330

meh. the weapon systems adds some complexity, scoring system is fairly basic.

>>1714335

pls explain the complex mechanics of r-type.

"Schmup"

Do any of you actually say this?
If so. This is you. This is how incredibly gay you sound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nb9HBcm_AQE

>>1714361
It has varied weapons including the force which can be used in several ways defensively and offensively and (more importantly) levels that demand you do different things from moment to moment. Compare this to your average (read: all of them except Pink Sweets) cave shmup where all you do the entire game is dodge dots on reflex. In before you try to claim having a repetitive gimmick that demands you do the same thing for the duration of the game is complex.

>>1714358
The scoring system isn't that basic. You get bonuses for using a certain weapon for a duration, extra points for higher boss destruction percentage, killing small fries in specific color-based patterns, there are hidden dog bonuses that have references to other games like GO! GO! IREM!!! before you fight the R-Type boss, it was one of the first shmups to feature 'bullet grazing', and your score also affects how powerful your ship becomes, which means you HAVE to play for score to survive. What CAVE shmup offers this much variety?

>>1714391
>shmups that rely on memorization are better than games that rely on reflexes.

well, i disagree. and once you have r-type memorized, there's nothing more to it. if you don't like the scoring mechanics in cave games that's fine, but don't pretend they don't add complexity to the game, or that they don't take a lot of skill to master.

life force just came in the mail today and so far im loving it. before life force my only experience with shoot em ups was gradius for the nes which i beat a few months ago and so far life force is just great. gradius game play with a huge step up graphics/sound wise. im loving it

>>1714409
>killing small fries in specific color-based patterns

that really what i meant when i said scoring system. the other stuff (destroying boss parts, finding hidden bonus items) is something you see in tons of shmups, and isn't very complex/interesting. and i already mentioned the weapon system. but yeah, radiant silvergun is good in this regard, i'm not denying that. too bad they screwed it all up with ikaruga. and i still very much disagree that the majority of shmups are more complex than those made by cave.

Are there any Gradius games, or horizontals that don't have the checkpoint system? As in, continuous play like Darius or R-Type Leo International?

I'm not totally against the memorization. I just find it to be rather annoying in some games, especially in parts like stage 2 of Gradius 2 with those damned things that have no movement pattern at all and come at you faster than you can move off screen.

In some games I feel like it's done well, like R-Type Delta having reasonable checkpoints after significantly challenging parts in the stage, but when it's something like stage 4 of Gradius Gaiden and setting a checkpoint extremely far from one another, I start to lose patience. Especially when passing it once doesn't guarantee I'll pass it again and I feel like I've made that progress for nothing.

>>1715795
Darius I and II only lose the the checkpoints when two players are playing.

But there's Progear, Phalanx, Salamander, I think Xexex doesn't use checkpoints either.

Why is the Donpachi series so glorious?

Seriously they make other shooters look bad in comparison.

>>1715808
Because it's not? One of CAVE's worst series in fact. When you say CAVE and think "shit tier scoring systems", Donpachi is the first thing that comes to mind.

>>1715813
Is that supposed to be criticism?

I dun like it wheeeeeeeee
why do I have to chain wheeeeeeeee

>>1715808
I found DoDonPachi to be rather bland and repetitive. I did like one of Cave's other shooters but can't remember the name of it.

>>1715806
You mean Gradius 1 and 2? I don't remember any checkpoints from Darius 1 and 2, unless the arcade version is different from the console ports.

Also, I just tried Xexex. It does use checkpoints but they seem very reasonable. But the AI on that thing you send out is a little weird. Is there a strategy to get it to go after enemies and not be lingering in some empty spot most of the time?

>>1714391
"Dodge dots on memorization" is not more complex than "dodge dots on reflex."

Nevermind that cave games do involve memorization. They just also test your reflexes, observation, and ability to stay cool under pressure in ways the memorizers of old can't begin to approach.

>>1715882
Ack no, I'm mistaken. Darius II has no checkpoints, it's part of why it's such a brutal game. The original Darius does however.

>>1715831
DonPachi chaining does suck though.

It takes these great survival games where you have multiple options on how to approach any given situation, games where you can switch between a memorized route and improvisation at any moment, and turns them into crappy R-Type-tier memorizers

>>1715813
>When you say CAVE and think "shit tier socring systems"...

Do you realize how gay you have just become?

>>1715882
>I found DoDonPachi to be rather bland and repetitive...yes, indeed...as opposed to that other game where you move a thing around in a 2D space and shoot up towards other things while avoiding their projectiles...rudimentary, pedestrian...something something...scoring system was a tier of some sort of bodily excriment....tut-tut. Oh i do believe its time for me to take my hyper-retarded autism medicine.

>>1715928
>I found DoDonPachi to be rather bland and repetitive...yes, indeed...as opposed to that other game where you move a thing around in a 2D space and shoot up towards other things while avoiding their projectiles...rudimentary, pedestrian...something something...scoring system was a tier of some sort of bodily excriment....tut-tut. Oh i do believe its time for me to take my hyper-retarded autism medicine.

That doesn't sound like the game I was talking about. Maybe you need to take a break from the internet if someone's opinion makes you this upset.

>>1715795
Not retro but Gradius V (my fave Gradius game) lets you turn on/off a checkpoint system. Also check out the Thunder Force series.

>>1715813
True. Ketsui is basically DDP re-imagined with a far superior scoring system based on shotgunning.

>>1715813
I like chaining it's primitive sure but it's very rewarding quite a bit of survivalism going along with it with the whole maximum bonus.

>>1715925
> multiple options on how to approach any given situation, games where you can switch between a memorized route and improvisation at any moment,

Not really you should just stick to the easiest way to take on said section/boss stray away from your route and god help your chain.

>>1716113
>reading comprehension

>>1715912
Nope they're 100% reflex, and the other parts of your brain will shut off when playing them. Maybe that's why you're having such a hard time remembering.

>ability to stay cool under pressure
I have to lol hearing this from the fanbase that can't handle checkpoints.

>>1714363
you're incredibly gay for caring

I'm all about the R-Type. 1cc'd all of them aside from III.

Delta is easily my favorite of the bunch, extremely memorable level design and all 4 ships were very fun to play. The Dose system is also one of the best versions of a superbomb mechanic I've seen in a shooter.

Aside from that I love me some Ikaruga but that's not retro at all. Tyrian 2000 is great too.

>>1714204
nigga
>Mars Matrix
>FUCKING HELLSINKER

>>1716227
You're an idiot. Stop talking about games you know nothing about.

>Nope they're 100% reflex
Stop making shit up.

>and the other parts of your brain will shut off when playing them
Making shit up.

>I have to lol hearing this from the fanbase that can't handle checkpoints.
Making shit up, again.

Seriously, don't talk about shmups if you've never actually worked toward beating one in your life.

>>1716039
I wondered about that game. I keep seeing people say that and Gaiden are the best in the series. It looks different though, like you can actually control the Options in that one?

Fast shmups need more love. Especially ones that aren't made by Psikyo like the Raiden Fighters series and Dangun Feveron, possibly the most underrated Cave game.

>>1716279
Cave releases like 70 games every 3 months so it's not surprising a lot of them went forgotten.

It goes without saying, but Cho Ren Sha 98k and Hydorah are two of the best freeware games of all time as well as some of the best shmups.

>>1716258
I've probably beat more than you.

>>1716267
>like you can actually control the Options in that one?
Yes, and it depends on which shottype you choose. There's Freeze (locks the options into place), Directional (aim where the option shoots with the right stick), Thunder Cross (options always stay above and below you vertically), and Rotate (spins around your ship while holding down the option button).

>all these plebs talking mad shit to each other about how pro they are

>no mention of Raizing.

shmup threads fucking suck, If I wanna hear hilarious opinions about shmups I'll just watch all of Xoxaks' videos.

>>1716283
True, but it's still upsetting that the ones that go forgotten are often their most unique games like Feveron and Guwange.

I wouldn't mind if nobody remembered one or two of the Dodonpachi games or the Esp series.

>>1716294
Are you seriously just going to fall back on making this a dick waving contest? Honestly, even if you have beaten more than me that makes it all the more pathetic that you have failed so completely to grasp the genre and how it's played.

The entire shmup genre requires a degree of memorization and stage mastery, especially when scoring comes into play. This goes for both horis and verts. There is quite a bit of strategy to be found in any shmup worth its salt, regardless of which particular style it is. Do you seriously think you can just go on autopilot and reflexively 2-ALL Ketsui? That all the high scores set in those types of games are just dudes playing the game as it comes to them?

The only major difference between horis and verts is that verts have an element of twitch skill and improvisation, and it certainly isn't enough to overshadow the fundamentals of shmup gameplay that have carried over from hori shooters.

>>1716302
>Raizing
>pro
if I wanna play poorly designed, randomy bullshit I'd load up a Toaplan game, at least those are interesting and stylish

>>1716318
>randomy
u suk

But really they're not that random, rank control is actually pretty easy. Just don't pick up powerups when you don't need them, don't hold down the fire button all the time and play for score so you have extra lives. At least I assume you mean the rank control.

Also I think Battle Garegga is more visually impressive and stylish than any Toaplan game. That's just me though.

>>1716318
>Toaplan
>not the best ever

IN A.D. 2101 WAR WAS BEGINNING

>>1716314
I can tell from the laughable and backwards shit you say that it's you who has failed to grasp the breadth of shmups. Cave's style is to abstract out most of the elements you're describing from other shmups (both vertical and horizontal). When was the last time you had to adapt to a different situation in a cave shmup? I doubt such a thing is even possible the way they're designed.

>>1716314
>Guwange
That's the game I was thinking about! I didn't think it was one of the best verticals I played, but I liked it way better than DoDonPachi.

>>1712840
Speaking of Compile, is Seirei Senshi Spriggan any good? I don't think I've ever played a Compile game aside from Puyo Puyo.

>>1716337
It's not just you.

>>1716351
Compile is incapable of making a bad game.

MUSHA in particular is one of the best (and most expensive) games on the Genesis.

>>1716359
I like they're style but don't have the stamina for how long the stages are.

>>1716346
This is why I say you haven't played the games at all. You are literally just straight up making shit up and lying.

>When was the last time you had to adapt to a different situation in a cave shmup?
Getting caught out of position for an enemy spawn. Falling behind the pace of the level. Missing a scoring trick, disrupting the flow of the stage. Losing some degree of power after a death and having to deal with longer enemy life time, not to mention recovering your rhythm.

You know, mostly the same shit you'd have to deal with in a hori. Get fucked, you ignorant asshole.

>>1716362
At least it's not fucking Outzone by Toaplan.

I don't think I've ever been beyond the beginning of stage 2, stage 1 alone is as long as most shmups.

>>1716365
You must be thinking of Zero Wing.

>>1716456
HOW ARE YOU GENTLEMEN!

>>1716364
I am not telling lies, just my honest impression as someone who has played more shmups (including cave shmups) than you.

Your examples are of such minutiae that the fact that you think of them as adverse situations argues in favor of my point, not yours.

>>1716456
All your base are belong to us

>>1716227
>Nope they're 100% reflex, and the other parts of your brain will shut off when playing them.

there's no way this isn't trolling

>>1712569
It has...scuffs...it still works so far but...it has scuffs. I will never understand how people get scuffs on their discs...

>>1716279
We need more Cosmic Cops and Kingdom Grandprixes.

>>1716289
>Hydorah
>>>/v/

>>1716359
Personally I think MUSHA is one of Compile's very worst games and its status as one of the best the Genesis has to offer really baffles me.

>>1716660
I also think that, nigger brother.

>>1716660
The stages look really long but I want to try it out.

Also, what do you guys think of Raystorm? It's on the TL2 disc and I was wondering if there's anything I should keep in mind when I play it.

>>1716468
The fact that you haven't made a single actual point about the games(because you haven't played them) shows how retarded and pseudo-intellectual you are.

>>1716876
What would you consider an 'actual point'? It's hard to be specific about games which consist of non-specific bullet vomit.

>>1716337
Killing yourself in an arcade game is a stupid mechanic.

>>1717075
Then don't do it?

>>1717075
Only people who care about getting a stupid high score suicide themselves strategically. It's not necessary otherwise.

>>1717080
>>1717082
It's necessary or else the rank buttfucks you, it's not fun.

>>1717084
No it's not necessary, it's an advanced technique for people who can already beat the game.

>>1717084
Didn't have this problem. Other players I've seen 1cc it didn't have to suicide.

>>1717090
>>1717091
Tell me with a straight face that Garegga is beatable on the later stages with a maxed out rank, it really isn't.

>>1717093
Okay. Garegga is beatable on the later stages with a maxed out rank (said with a straight face).

>>1717093
I also want to add that I think it's bullshit that some parts of it are way out of your control. The arcade dude could rig the machine to start at a higher rank, someone else playing it before you could raise the rank and leave the cabinet, it's bullshit.

>>1717093
Even if you failed utterly at rank control it wouldn't get close to maxed out. The people you see killing themselves do it to counteract the fact that they spend 20 minutes on each boss for extra points.

>>1717084
No anon rank isn't going to buttfuck you. I'm going to buttfuck you. And I'm going to keep buttfucking you until you learn to love Garegga.

>>1717091
>>1717090
Actual Garegga player here, you two are utterly full of shit. Some strategic suiciding is a necessity to make the final stages manageable. Those people who don't do it at all are either dying enough anyway or they're already pros at the game and can handle the intensity of high-level adaptive difficulty. Anyone relatively new to the game looking to single-credit clear it will need to kill themselves.


This is coming from a general Raizing fan, by the way. There's no question that killing yourself is an utterly counter-intuitive way of playing. It's all right once you know about it, but it's pretty asinine to those who don't.

>>1717218
Actual actual Garegga player here and the one who is full of shit is you.

>>1717218
Thanks for defending me, I have to admit though to Raizing's credit, their games look and sound fucking fantastic, and the best part is that most of them run on hardware that was like already 10 years old when they came out. Ancient Toaplan hardware.

>>1717218
Or they know basic rank control that doesn't involve killing yourself.

>>1717218
>Actual Garegga player
>Actual
The fuck is this even supposed to mean? Me and the people I've seen play it aren't "actual"? What a stupid statement to open up with.

>or they're already pros at the game and can handle the intensity of high-level adaptive difficulty.
So then you're basically just repeating what I said, if you had even read what I posted before responding to me.

>>1717262
It means you don't know what you're talking about and I do.

>>1717252
That's not really enough sadly. If you don't die (with a lower amount of extra ships in stock when you do it) before stage 6 you're gonna get fucked. It's bad enough that secret homing options are very important as is.

Okay folks. I need help. I want to get into shmups, but I suck dick at them and there are so many that I have no idea where a good jumping off point even is. What are the essentials for beginners, and what should I move up to when I git gud?

>>1717278
>It means you don't know what you're talking about and I do.

You're trying to appear superior above other players by claiming they aren't "actual" players. In the end, you just sound like a stupid asshole.

>>1716227
It's a mixture of both. If you're making this argument then that means you've played something like Gradius, right? Just because a lot of it is memorization doesn't mean there's no part of it that challenges reflex. Same can be said for R-Type games and other horizontal shooters like them.

>>1717098
It's really shitty that Garegga maintains rank between playthroughs and you have to either wait or reset the machine to get it back to the default level.

>>1717284
Espgaluda is a good starting point. The difficulty level is relatively tame. You have the ability to slow down time to make things easier, and the game is really generous about how often you can use it.

>>1717312

>It's a mixture of both. If you're making this argument then that means you've played something like Gradius, right? Just because a lot of it is memorization doesn't mean there's no part of it that challenges reflex. Same can be said for R-Type games and other horizontal shooters like them.

You've got it backwards. They're claiming that cave-style verts are 100% reflex, with no strategy or anything else involved.

>>1717352
I know. When I said it's a mixture of both, I meant that the Cave verticals were a mixture of both reflex and memorization and weren't totally lacking strategy. I thought he was implying reflex was bad in some way, so that's why I brought up R-Type.

I don't think I made it clear but that's what I meant...I think. I don't know. I'm tired and can't sleep.

>>1717101
>Even if you failed utterly at rank control it wouldn't get close to maxed out.
This is so misleading. Even at maybe a third of the way to the maximum adaptive difficulty level Garegga gets ridiculously hard to manage.

>>1717345
Just grabbed this and played it. First time through it took me 31 continues to beat. How dogshit am I, /vr/?

>>1717218
>Anyone relatively new to the game looking to single-credit clear it will need to kill themselves
unless they are
>dying enough anyway.

>>1708198
>official
>hack
Choose one.

Would you call SFII Champion Edition a "hack"? Or batsugun: special edition a hack too?

No. Don't go calling Darius Gaiden: Extra EDITION a hack just because that's what MAME calls it. It ain't a "hack" it's a new edition/version and it's OFFICIAL

>>1717572
>official devs can't romhack their own game
stop posting

>>1717592
>darius gaiden: Extra
>romhack

>arcade board
>romhack

>romhack
>rom

>hack
>romhack

Memorisation/secrecy is a massive part of more or less every arcade game. Knowing is half the battle as they say.

While not a stg I no missed Dungeon Magic/Light Bringer on my 2nd credit after viewing a replay. Though how much of a impact the lack of knowledge has on your play depends on the game of course lucky for us usually the most annoying boss happens to have a safespot not sure why that is.

>>1717602
Light Bringer is a REEEALLY easy game though. It requires minimal execution compared to other arcade beat'em ups.

Vold and Gren (with the "Bare Knuckle" gauntlets) are extremely powerful.

Cisty is way more balanced (weaker)

And ASH is garbage.

(I'm only talking about one-coining btw)

I'm going to guess right here that you used VOLD to beat the game, right?

So, who else here got spoiled by CAVE shmups and can't into (almost) anything else?
I knwo there are ltos more shmups out there, but I'm having way too much fun with CAVE's offerings.

>>1717609
No I used Ash and no missed it. D&D SoM is also very easy(not using wizard) just perfect the execution of lightning rings against dragons and 70% of the games difficulty is gone. Now Powered Gear that one is mean took me a while to No Miss with Blodia fuck those worker robots with laserblades.

>>1717612
then you already had experience playing the game. I thought you were saying in your previous post that you two-coined the game on your FIRST ever playthrough of the game. Implausible when using Ash. But if you already had experience with the game, then you already had the fundamentals- just needed to know the right strats and patterns.

and yeah, SOM is bloody easy. the only challenging character is the thief or no-magic mage.

Really? Powered gear was kinda easy for me. Must be because I only use Guldin. Blodia is pretty good though. I would say Guldin > Blodia >>>> Fordy >> reptos , or something like that.

Anyway, the only beat'em up that keeps pulling me back these days is Sengoku 3. Damn that game is good. There is a HUGE fucking flaw with the game though. Every hit on an enemy pauses your character's animation by a few frames.. once you get to the point of one-coining Sengoku3, you'll realize why that is such a ridiculous flaw.. (let's just equate it with Smash Brawl's tripping mechanism)

but even with that flaw, the game is just so fun.

All this time i thought falcon was the worst character, but now that i can one-coin with everyone, i know that he's actually the best (or at least tied with Byakki)

>>1708146
>>1717572
It never ceases to amaze me how people on this board argue about the tiniest things such as correct wording on terms that pretty much mean the same damned thing.

>>1717218
>>1717278
>or they're already pros at the game and can handle the intensity of high-level adaptive difficulty.
Make up your mind. You're giving multiple pieces of contradictory info. Is it or is it not possible to complete the game without strategic suicide?

>>1717084
Says it is.

>>1717090
Says it isn't.

You just claimed that both of them are true while also saying one is full of shit.

>>1717613
anyway, that "flaw" i mentioned can cause immense frustration for beginners, messing up your inputs whenever a stray enemy "walks into" your current combo. HOWEVER, it really forces you to drop bad beat'em up habits, and to adopt good ones (like grouping/herding) in order to avoid the "flaw" i mentioned. herding is imperative in this game moreso than in any other beat'em up (due to this "flaw" or rather "feature"). herding is so critical that this game plays more like tetris, with its aim to set up 4-line tetrises

anyway, herding and okizeme are the key to sengoku3. this game has a reputation for being the hardest beat'em up out there, but the enemy ai is actually pretty stupid.. or rather, just REALLY susceptible to two things (1) moving off-screen --> this causes enemies to LINE UP on the same horizontal axis as you, which lets you run up and dash-attack (or jumping attack) to pop up all enemies **. and (2) wakeup attacks (just not on samurais and kunoichis- wait from a short distance then dash-attack then when they get up).

** basically, there are two types of characters if you get down to it.. those with good dash-attacks, and those with good jump attacks. use them to hit grouped enemies

anyway, sengoku3 tier time. my tiers can be understood with optimal usage of herding and ability to exploit enemy AI. not trying to sound douchey, but you really gotta be able to one-coin this game to understand my rankings.. otherwise, relatively unimportant things like damage, such as kurenai's 5-8 hit air juggle damage may make her appear the best or whatever. trust me, none of that matters. the most important criteria is who can take advantage of herded or downed enemies the best, and who can most-efficiently continue juggles safely while adding enemies into your juggle without getting hit.

1) byakki
2) falcon
3) kurenai
4) Okuni
5) kagetsura
6) Kongoh

How do ranks work for Darius Gaiden? Sometimes shit feels like it's too much and impossible to dodge (especially those homing lasers that curve so tight). And it feels that way quick into the game, like on the 3rd zone.

I have a hard time telling some of the zones' backgrounds from hard objects and bullets/enemies. I can almost never dodge the falling drops on the Electric Fan because most of them seem to be so close together. And that Titanic Lance...what the fuck? Why would I ever pick that zone?

I like G-Darius but this game seems to be all over the place with it's difficulty whereas it feels like there's some balance in G-Darius. Unless G-Darius has ranking and I'm just doing it better in that game than Gaiden?

>>1717613
>then you already had experience playing the game. I thought you were saying in your previous post that you two-coined the game


Not much experience at all I loaded up the game previously to get the hang of the controls and that was it. The 2nd credit was a no miss. The games difficulty come from mean rooms with ghosts/poison shit everywhere I watched the replay and never stepped into one of them.
ITS OUR DESTINY

>Really? Powered gear was kinda easy for me. Must be because I only use Guldin. Blodia is pretty good though. I would say Guldin > Blodia >>>> Fordy >> reptos , or something like that.

I didnt notice the invisibility when picking up a weapon until after I cleared it. Hence the final stage was a mess for me. Final boss is a sucker though with the shield.


I dislike Sengoku 3 because I find it way too long cool visuals,soundtrack and artstyle though.

>>1717613
>then you already had experience playing the game. I thought you were saying in your previous post that you two-coined the game


Not much experience at all I loaded up the game previously to get the hang of the controls and that was it. The 2nd credit was a no miss. The games difficulty come from mean rooms with ghosts/poison shit everywhere I watched the replay and never stepped into one of them.
ITS OUR DESTINY

>Really? Powered gear was kinda easy for me. Must be because I only use Guldin. Blodia is pretty good though. I would say Guldin > Blodia >>>> Fordy >> reptos , or something like that.

I didnt notice the invisibility when picking up a weapon until after I cleared it. Hence the final stage was a mess for me. Final boss is a sucker though with the shield. Though man the plot of PoweredGear the ending what a twist!


I dislike Sengoku 3 because I find it way too long cool visuals,soundtrack and artstyle though.

>>1717610
You're not spoiled you just have a disease that makes you think everything has to be doodoopoo.

>>1708000
Here, not sure if the first frame duration was intentional, but now it's less annoying at least to me.

>>1717681
>all cave games are like ddp.

this mindless cave bashing is getting tiresome.

>>1717693
Cave only make one game
>doodoopoo with bugs
>doodoopoo with helicopters
>green doodoopoo

>>1717695

right. now take your shitposting somewhere else.

>>1717452
you're not supposed to use continues, anon

>>1717695
That's at least 3.

>>1717659
The two big things that affect adaptive difficulty in Darius Gaiden are blowing up boss appendages and picking up power-ups when you're already maxed. If you're blowing up King Fossil's fins in particular, that'll really blow the difficulty up early in the game.

G-Darius doesn't have any adaptive difficulty at all sadly.

>>1717659
Also your hitbox is much smaller than it seems. You can just fly behind the blue goo drops for Electric Fan if you want an easy expoit, too.

>>1717695
So, are there people out there that actually really hate DDP, or is it just an easy target because it's popular? Really I can see 3 problems with it:

1) Chaining. Some people don't like the scoring system.

2) Bees are a pretty pointless mechanic and don't really affect your score until late-game (fixed in DOJ somewhat)

3) The music and many of the enemy designs are a bit bland.

>>1717679
>dislike sengoku 3

Well, you're missing out on a superb beat'em up.

Sengoku3 is not long, dude. it's one of the shortest beat'em ups i know of. but it must be because i play the game so efficiently-- every screen-full of enemies is herded and killed in a single juggle. So every batch of enemies is killed as if only a single enemy appeared on screen. if you're taking on one enemy at a time, then you'll be frustrated. also, if you're starting every combo with jab,jab,jab,slash,(etc) then yeah, the game will take forever

>>1718149
Eh it's just one of those games I don't like. Same goes with Cadillac and Dinosaurs

>>1718149
oh, one last thing about sengoku3, then back to shmups for me.

The japanese youtube Sengoku 3 videos (Replay Burners) are not played by an expert (good kurenai, but his other characters are lacking). i consider myself better than that guy (with every character).

HOWEVER, there are videos on YOUKU that just blow my mind- and i know that i'll never even come close to their skill.

I was surprised to find vast number of Quality replay videos on YOUKU, not just for beat'em ups but also shmups and other genres. These chinese guys are waaay better than guys who upload videos on youtube (when it comes to non-shmups at least) and i learned so many tricks i never knew before. these chinese arcade gamers are on another level (non-shmups though)

don't type in the english title in youku. Go on baidu, and find the Chinese title. else you won't get many results on youku.

>>1718184
>youku

Id say the chinamen are the best at beat em ups No Miss,No Damage Max difficulty Powered Gear was pretty cool.

Twinkle Star Sprites is great.

I don't have anyone to play it with, though.

>>1718149
Go play Gaiapolis it's a vertical scrolling beat em up with continue system yeah it's that fucking long... Absolutely amazing soundtrack and visuals though but man that length just ugh.

>>1718242
Oh and grinding yes grinding.

Is shmupmame still the best way to play MAME shmups?

Man I have not touched a stg in months since I cleared DDP and then played it for score fucking backlog. Next game DoJ BL,Strikers 1945 II or ProGear.

>2014
>not scoring in Zoradius
cum on /vr/ step it up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqOUjITFwG8

>>1718359
Solar Assault was better

>>1718081
For me it's the shit tier scoring system, annoying music, and I absolutely despise CAVE's 2nd-loop-is-the-only-way-to-beat-the-game bullshit.

>>1718272
It's never been the best way to play MAME shmups, so no.

>>1718526
Sounds like you would love DoJ then. They made the chaining routes more logical, Namiki composed the OST, and you can choose to only do the first loop to meet the true final boss.

>>1717845
>>1717853
Okay, thanks. Also, how exactly do you work the Alpha Beam in G-Darius? Like when you're countering? It always gets over powered and the Beta Beam destroys me.

Also, are you invincible for the duration of using your Alpha Beam?

>>1718646
>you can choose to only do the first loop to meet the true final boss

That's only in DOJ Black Label iirc

>>1719418
It's just a simple button mashing exercise. When you hit the shot button fast enough your beam will overpower the boss's. You're not invincible but as your beam wipes out projectiles you're pretty close to it. Also if you use one of those bigger, more unique enemies in a stage for your beam it comes out bigger and gives you a larger score bonus.

>>1718526
>I absolutely despise CAVE's 2nd-loop-is-the-only-way-to-beat-the-game bullshit.

i never understood this complaint. what's the problem exactly?

>>1719634
Oh, I have to keep hitting square. Alright. I succeeded a few times at it so I think I've got it. These hitboxes on Gaiden and G-Darius do seem really long though for the amount of bullets it starts to throw at you.

>>1719723
Not him, but 2nd loops make the games twice as long as they should be, and if you're good enough for the second loop, that means playing through a huge amount of trivial content before you get to the challenging part.

Expert modes like in Saidaioujou and DFK BL are much better overall.

>>1719836
>Not him, but 2nd loops make the games twice as long as they should be, and if you're good enough for the second loop, that means playing through a huge amount of trivial content before you get to the challenging part.
Glad someone else gets it. I hate slogging through the first loop to get to the part I actually want to play. Loops should just be selectable difficulty levels. It amazes me how this archaic design concept borrowed from games from the mid-'80s that had no end somehow managed to stick around.

>>1719892
A fuck load of shmups do that and nobody gives a fuck because they're not doodoopoo.

>>1719923
Well I care. CAVE just really stands out because they tend to hide their real final bosses in them. In other games with 2nd loops you can usually just say "okay, I'm done" when you beat the first and move onto to something else. But when all the game content isn't in the first loop it doesn't feel like you've truly beaten anything.

>>1719930
Similar to the Heaven's Gate in Gradius Gaiden?

>>1718081
I don't see the point in disliking it because it's popular. I genuinely don't see what's so special about it. It wasn't fun for me at all.

>>1719930

this is what i don't understand. when i really like a game, i don't just wanna go through it and move on to something else, i want more, even if it's just another loop with increased difficulty. if you don't like the game, i don't know why you'd care either way.

>>1719836

that's a good point. although i always had more trouble with the last couple of stages in ddp than the first couple of levels on the second loop.

>>1720358
>that's a good point. although i always had more trouble with the last couple of stages in ddp than the first couple of levels on the second loop.

What was your best?

>>1720361

2-3

>>1720358
>this is what i don't understand. when i really like a game, i don't just wanna go through it and move on to something else, i want more, even if it's just another loop with increased difficulty.

I'd rather have a second loop than nothing, but a selectable expert mode is still better.

i need to know the best ships to 1-coin these games:

-Gunbird 2-- Tavia

-Strikers 1945 II - - hayate, or flying pancake

-Strikers 1945 III- X36

-Tengai- Ayin

-Aero Fighters- Viking or Tomcat

-Armed Police batrider- Strawman

-batsugun - Type C

-bakraid - flame viper

-battle garegga - snail

- blazing star- windina

-Dimahoo - ????

-Mahou Daisaksen - ????

-Shippu Mahou Daisaksen- ????

-Dragon Blaze - ?????

-ESP Ra.De.- The straight shot guy

-Gokujou Parodius- Mamba

-Fixeight- Mike Tyson

-Gekirindan - 2-player Type C

-Guwange- The girl

-Hyper Duel - Keith (lisa better for scoring, but i'm talking about easiest to 1-coin)

-Shock Troopers- ????

The reason why i already listed ships is because i want you guys to correct me if i'm mistaken.

>>1720378
Depending on what ship you use 2-5 is either a disaster or cake walk.

>>1720428
>disaster

the spread shot you mean? i always used c in the beginning, but after i started making it to the second loop, i prefer a.

>>1717452
I wouldn't say you're complete dogshit, you just need practice. Make savestates at the stages, bosses, or specific parts you had trouble with and practice it until you're ready to move on. Also, that final boss is one insane motherfucker. Is that where most of those continues came from?

>>1720390
I've 1CC'd most of those and I agree with most of those choices.

I beat ESPrade with JB the 5th and Irori, but never Yusuke (straight shot guy). I think JB is easiest because his sub shot is so strong.

For Guwange, I think Shishin is the easiest. Kosame (the girl) is best for scoring.

Can't remember who I used to clear Mahou Daisakusen and Shippu Mahou Daisakusen with, but I think it was the old slow guy for the former.

>>1717452
You're complete dogshit. No amount of practice can save you. Don't even try. Also, that final boss is one easy motherfucker. Is that where most of those continues came from?

>>1718529

So what is the best MAME for shmups?

I thought shmupmame was good since it reduced input lag.

>>1720941
Input lag is hardly as a big a deal as the autists at the system11 forum make it out to be. Shmupmame decreases very minor input lag but it does it at the expense of intentionally inaccurate emulation. Just use regular MAME.

>>1720946

Alright thanks.

>>1720854
I cannot 1-coin guwange yet (haven't played it much) so i'll take your word for it. But doesn't kosame have the best speed, fastest & strongest shot? furthermore, the guys on the shmups.system11 forum say that all the shikigamis have identical hitboxes (despite differing sizes)

>>1720390
>Hyper Duel - Keith (lisa better for scoring, but i'm talking about easiest to 1-coin)
Couldn't be more wrong.

I don't know about scoring, but the strongest character to just clear the game with is LLOYD. The trick is to never use his armor version and to stick with his fighter version. You need to repeatedly time your special shots (while in fighter version) so that only the first shot comes out, because the first shot goes directly in front of you. Get into a rhythm so that you shoot out the first shots repeatedly. You'll get used to the timing. What this does is that you get a constant stream of the extremely powerful bombs that only go directly in front of you. Combined with his normal shot which is the strongest in the game, he is easily the best character to clear the game with. Don't ask me about scoring though.

>blazing star- windina
Agreed. But you have to mention Dino 246 for the mere fact that she has a pod that absorbs bullets in front of her.

>Dimahoo
Miyamoto

>>1721134
Miyamoto is way too difficult to not run into things with in Dimahoo. I wouldn't recommend him at all for a player just trying to beat it. Karte and Solo-Bang are the obvious choices. Grimlen is very powerful but has a lot of trouble dodging some of later boss attacks.

>>1721304
Well, honestly, I can't 1CC Dimahoo, but I can get to the last boss easily and consistently with Miyamoto (no continues). The other characters don't feel as easy to do so.

>>1721356
Well maybe this whole concept of there being a "best character" to play is a little silly. I can get to the last bosses with nearly all items collected consistently with Karte but I can't with other characters because I hardly play them as much. It's often a matter of taste in the end.

>>1721380
Well, maybe for a game like Dimahoo. But a lot of other games have clear differences in performance between the characters.

>>1721040
She's the fastest, but I'm not sure her shot is the strongest. I preferred having a wider shot and a slower character to make dodging easier.