/vr/ - Retro Games

>>1695261
Great game. That's all there is to it>>1695261

>>1695261
Best Build game ever (sorry, Duke).

>>1695261
Weakest Build engine game. But it's still okay.

>>1695261
Personally, I find this to be the best of the Build games. Duke and Blood are great, but I think the unique personality this game has is timeless.

And say what you want about all the "Wang Talk", I still find all that shit hilarious

More consistently cool than Blood, never reaching the highs and lows of the Monolith game, but generally a big step up from Dook. It has the best melee and the worst music! There's more silly gizmos to fiddle around with than in any other Build game, while not feeling as frivolous as Tekwar. The game's fairly challenging after one's played through Dook, though Blood's harder and Plutonia lords over all in difficulty rank. I like sword, is a personal weapon, &c.

To me, it's a worthy last gasp of fresh air for Apogee, who didn't get around to making much after.

>>1695387
Weakest well-known, well-regarded Build engine game, maybe. The weakest of the Duke/Blood/SW trio. Hardest the worst game using the Build engine period.

>>1695261
Nice mapping and cool features, but poor weapon/enemy balance. Feels like a grab bag of stuff thrown together without careful design at times.

It's better when you play from a cold start on every map but even then the game throws ammo at you. Most enemies are not threatening, I think I blew myself up with careless grenade launcher usage more times than I actually died to attacks.

It has that cool Build style of interconnected level design with good secrets though so I can't hate on it too much.

>>1695643
Did Tekwar use Build? Though similar, I thought it was a proprietary engine.

Though it has aged terribly and in retrospect it was a bad game, I used to love Tekwar back in the 90s. It had a lot of cool innovative elements and gimmicks for its time, like a sandbox-style open-ended world and innocent civilians walking around. In this sense, combined with the cyberpunk setting, it kinda felt like a crude precursor for Deus Ex.

>>1695659
Yeah, it was ambitious. Not pulled off very well, but you could see what they were going for and I don't believe there was any game that attempted city maps with similar detail before it.

Didn't play it much but remember it being much harder than DN and Blood.

I love it. It did Railguns before Quake and Rippers are my favorite enemies.

>>1695261
I fucking love it, though the game feels a bit like a chore on the No Pain, No Gain due to how many fucking hitscanners there are

>>1695651
Yeah, I agree, I recently replayed the game + its 2 add-ons by doing every map from scratch (katana/stars start) and it makes the game a lot better.

If you don't do that, you'll be running on a full arsenal of EVERYTHING after just a few maps.

The thing is, every enemy is a lot deadlier than in Duke3D; so as a consequence they give the player a more deadly arsenal, too.
The problem with that is, on another side of its design, SW is also Built so that every map is playable from scratch; like in Duke3D, if you die, you're supposed to start the map over from a fresh start, NOT to load your save. So you're given plenty of firepower in each map to fight those deadly enemies in case you started from scratch..
People tend to forget this was how FPS were designed because it got lost very soon after that era.

But anyway doing every map from scratch is a lot more fair for this game, and it also teaches you to use every weapon well as well as using items well (and items are surprisingly useful in SW).

It striked me the other day as I was playing the new SW, and going through a turret section, I remembered that SW had turrets too and then I thought "Was SW the first FPS featuring turrets ?" I can't think of another one...

>>1695261
Douk > SW > Blood > rest of Build
Best guns, level design could've been better, enemy design could use more variety besides ninja recolors

>>1695651
>Feels like a grab bag of stuff thrown together without careful design at times.

Yeah I understand what you mean. But I think that's part of what games the game so awesome, it doesn't actually care THAT much about careful design and careful balance, it just wants to be over-the-top as much as it can; and it's lighthearted and fun because of that, the game doesn't take itself very seriously and it's liberating.

Anyway if you guys haven't played the 2 addons, I recommend them. There has been people working on making a playable version of Deadly Kiss (the 3rd, cancelled, addon) but I dunno what's the status on that. Last I heard, there wasn't much to do except they needed a modeller for the main character, No Wang, Lo Wang's sister.

And if you still want more (there is never enough SW), I recommend The Last Warrior TC, I played it and it's really good. There is sadly not much good SW usercontent. I was thinking of making a map (that would be like the venise map of Tomb Raider 2; a town, water as street, and you use the boat to go around, etc) but I've been busy with other stuff

>>1695841
Quake was released in 96 and SW in 97

>>1696260
Terminator: Future Shock (1995) had turrets for sure.

Did Marathon or System Shock have turrets?

>>1696268
>I was thinking of making a map
Go for it bro
>Quake was released in 96 and SW in 97
Railgun was first in Quake II, which was 98

>>1695651
Also about the "not careful design" thing, apparently the last build of SW, the actual SW (before that, that's how it looked like, pic related) seemed to have been built very fast. Like, they released Duke3D, and they thought "okay now that we're good at that, let's make another one quickly"; and at the same time they were also working on Atomic Edition of Duke3D and the very first Builds of a sequel to Duke3D.


>>1696269
Had forgotten about Future Shock (I think lot's of people do). I never actually beat it.

>>1696274
Ah yeah, dumb of me...

>>1695261
Weakest of the BUILD engine games but still great.

Blood = Duke > SW

I've played a ridiculous amount of Blood recently.

>all these opinions
I'll add mine

Blood > SW > Duke

Weakest Build game would be Nam and World War II GI.

Legen of the Seven Paladdin doesn't account because it was never officially released.

Also it's really like Redneck Rampage Rides Again and Powerslave don't exist, you guys don't know what you're missing.

I always found Shadow Warrior too spooky and frustrating.

>mfw those giant flying bugs
>mfw those rat monsters
>mfw the whole atmosphere

It's a shame it's only got like 5 music tracks and they all sound like the same generic Asian music.

>>1696418
why are you always on repeat? are you actually autistic? go away nerd

>>1696419
>giant flying bugs
You don't know what evil means until you've faced these guys in Marathon.

Ammo balance for continuous play in these old shooters is fucked in general; Quake's one of the few games from this period that isn't balanced for no-ammo starts, instead encouraging continuous play by frequently denying ammo.

>>1696418
PowerSlave has no mouselook so it's a really huge pain in the ass to play. That's the main reason I never got into it.

>>1696675
Yes, the controls feel dated. No mouselook, and you also can't go forward/backward while strafing.

I still played it using wasd+mouse, but would I play it keyboard only it wouldn't make a difference.

If you get past the controls, you'll find some of the best Doom-era FPS level design ever (at least in my opinion). The layout are always very clever and I also like how some levels are 'interactive' and change shape along the way, everything we like about old FPS level design layout, I think the PC version of Powerslave does it at its finest.
Besides, due how simple the enemies AI are, you don't really need mouselook and 'normal' strafing, with such strafing you'd be too overpowered.

I know the game's not perfect, the controls can be an issue, the enemies are a bit simple, and you're stuck with the first few weapons for quite a long time at the start of the game; but the atmosphere and level design alone make it a great game.

I'm really alone on this one though. Most old PC FPS fans never played Powersalve and even the niche of people who love Lobotomy Software are too busy claiming that the console versions of Powerslave are underrated to even consider the PC version.

>>1696719
I'm playing it based on your recommendation in another thread a while back. Although vertical aiming takes some fiddling and standing still, I managed to set it up with Doom-style mouse turning and a decent strafe speed using the run modifier. It's a pretty cool game, agreed about the level design and atmosphere. Only reason I'm not further along is because of the save/checkpoint system which means I have to really sit down and focus to get all the way through a level, especially if I don't want to lose any lives. I kind of like that though, it adds to the adventure feeling.

>>1695261
Just finished it today on the second difficulty. I dig big levels and ridiculous amount of toys you get, but cloaked OHK assholes are bullshit. Main campaign is uninspired at times, but level design is alright.

>>1697013
I found SW's levels to be hit or miss, either extremely good levels or very bad ones, nothing in between.

How are the expansion packs for Shadow Warrior?
I've got high hopes for Wanton Destruction after Duke Caribbean, Duke it out in DC and Cryptic Passage.

>>1697280
They're both really good, if not better than the base game. Though personally I liked Twin Dragon more than Wanton.

>>1695261
great game if you like build engine games
full of shtick and nostalgia.

>>1697150
Well, I've yet to see the full extent of them. I blitzed through some levels in the middle, and dojos blend together at the start.

What's the best time to drop a flash bomb? I tried it against cloaked ninjas, and results didn't seem consistent.

>>1697280
I think Wanton has some of the best maps, better than Twin Dragon; but the problem is that it's hit or miss. It's really weird, you're gonna find a great map, and then a pretty terrible map like the map inside a flying passenger plane. That map is AWFUL gameplay wise, and it's part of what got the guy hired by 3DRealms to work on DNF... Go wonder.
Twin Dragon is more consistent throughout, nothing terrible however nothing extraordinary either.

>>1696268
They have art for No Wang, unless they want to redo it (which is retarded, the art there is fine)

YOU WANT TO WASH WANG? OR YOU WANT TO WATCH WANG WASH WANG?

Loved the game, but I hated that you got injured way too easily by your own explosive weapons.

>>1699728
The grenade launcher has a ridiculously large radius considering how neither the explosions nor the weapon seem like they should be any more powerful than, say, the rocket launcher.

>>1695546
>And say what you want about all the "Wang Talk", I still find all that shit hilarious
It's the hysterical way they were delivered. He just sounds funny as fuck.
>Burn baby burn da furame's a gettin HAIYA

>>1696419
Spooky is one of the things I really liked about the old trinity. Duke's episode 2, the first two episodes of Blood, that dark forest and temples in SW, shit's great. Those games pull off atmosphere more than they had any business doing.

>>1699867
They might have gone a bit overboard with it's crowd control capability compared to the rocket launcher's direct hit damage.

>>1700475
>Dark Woods of the Serpent
I absolutely love that level.

>>1696269
Dunno about Marathon, but SS, yes.

>>1696418
>Legen of the Seven Paladdin doesn't account because it was never officially released.

It got a physical release like the rest.

NAM is easily a decent game and I'd rate WW2GI over Extreme Paintbrawl, though it's not very good.

>>1703018
Well then if it does count, THAT must be the weakest Build engine game then.

>>1703235
Except it's playable whereas Extreme Paintbrawl's AI does nothing, you can't even play it.

>>1703302
Isn't it supposed to be multiplayer anyway?

>>1703305
The launcher doesn't work properly for that, either.

>>1703307
Well okay, you got a point.

>>1695261
It's available for free on steam if anyone wants to play it.

>>1695841
>It did Railguns before Quake
Both games were just copying Eraser.