/vr/ - Retro Games

>>1642162

>>1642171

>tfw drinking with your buddies and you all realize you were quintuplets together in the womb of the same woman
>you forgot because Mike's Whiskey™ is known to have the side effect of causing memory loss

>>1642180

>I'm lonely but cant remember why and am surrounded by people who like.

Fuck FF8.

It honestly feels like they just tried so hard to make a serious romance plot.

But in the end, it was just incredibly boring and convoluted. Least compelling love story in video games.

The draw system is whatever. I probably would've liked it better if it took me longer than zero seconds to figure out how to completely break the game. Oh, you're gonna throw these enemies at me that have all the basic magic and do shit all for damage? Okay, I'll just sit here and draw for about an hour. Never worry about that shit again.

And then you can get be swimming in level 3 spells not long after that.

Triple Triad is fucking rad though. FF9 also had a good card game though. And a good actual game.

>>1642227
but the soundtrack was awesome and the cut scenes were amazing for 1998. Ya gotta give it that

>>1642243
Absolutely.

Square's 3D modelers vastly improved from FF7. The game looked amazing, and the FMVs are awesome. They even had seamless transitions from gameplay to FMV in a couple of places. You go from weird block people in FF7 to realistically proportioned and detailed models that look about as close to human as you can get on the PS1. The summons were also very visually impressive.

FF8 and FF9 are definitely some of the best looking games on the PS1.

And Nobuo Uematsu makes killer music no matter what the game.

They focused too much on the plot and fucked the gameplay entirely. Level scaling being the worst thing. It kills all the depth.

>had even better plot

>>1642338
The plot would have been better if it wasn't all "lol demons were behind everything!" towards the end.

Like, there were no villains. They were all just controlled by demons who are evil by nature.

But even with that, the story is still pretty good.

>>1642361
Maybe there weren't many villains, but there were plenty of genuinely evil or at least selfish bastards.

>>1642361
I just loved the old medieval almost Shakespearean story

lots of plot twists and backstabbing and character development as well as it questions the monarchy and wanting to be a free democracy and be equals

like when i 1st played the game how many yrs ago as a kid i was totally rooting for house beoluve when you were dealing with the corpse brigade and all that jazz in the 1st chapter or so because thats the team youre on and i didnt really care for delita very much
now having replayed it im much more interested in the rebellion and the corpse brigade and delita's role in the game alot more because theyre fighting for respect and equality even though theyre low born
idk i just really fuckin loved that kind of story as well as the dialog they use between characters

>>1642409

>>1642414

>>1642409
Yeah, it does a pretty good political backstabbing plot, and there are many political plots at all in video games.

Also, I genuinely think the War of the Lions retranslation fits the game so much better. Most people seem to not like it though.

It also has Balthier as a secret character, which is rad.

>>1642361
the power inside the stones only reflected the bearers will for good or evil, as seen on that part were the scorpio stone revives malak

it is actually men who are behind the demons

VIII's plot was intriguing at first (is this machine gun guy plot line happening in the past? zomgwtfbbq!!!111eleventyone), but then it got retarded around the third disc.

>>1642361
It's a final fantasy series
they had to have demons behind everything

>>1642492

If the entire game was just the first disk, it actually would have been a really good game. Unfortunately, somewhere in the second disk it goes off the rails and never comes back.

The plot of every FF game has been retarded, sub-YA fiction mind bubblegum.
It's the setting that's interesting, and 8 had a pretty cool one.

I love it to pieces and it's not even my favorite. It's part that wild, amazing ride that was squaresoft and the ps1. Wild plot, broken game mechanics--all of it be damned, it's still Final Fantasy while Final Fantasy was great. Life has been pain these past ten plus years. I hope we're gearing up for a comeback of those old feels soon. That's not /vr/ though.

>>1642419
another game ive really gotten into is tactics ogre the psp version
defiantly has a very similar feel to FFT which i love and again has that serious bsns Shakespearean kinda plot and dialog

>>1642689
I would say the plot of most of the early ones were simplistic at best and uninspired at worst.

And then you have games like 5 and 9 that are supposed to be just fun and lighthearted with non serious stories.

Everything after 8, with 9 being an exception, the stories started getting retarded and needlessly convoluted.

But even with a retarded story, I can usually enjoy the game. FFX, for example has the worst story, but probably the best battle system in Final Fantasy. And because of that, I still say FFX is decent.

FF8 doesn't really have a strong battle system going for it. Really the only thing to pick up the slack of the story is Triple Triad.

>>1642708
It's a pretty sad state of affairs when we are now reliant on Tetsuya Nomura to save Final Fantasy, considering many people pointed to him as the reason FF fell from grace. But he's way fucking better than Motomu Toriyama who single handedly turned a still respectable franchise into a complete joke.

The beginning of the game was amazing but then the plot went to shit after you find out they all knew each other

I liked this game though

>>1642180

haha. true.

They built the characters for about half a game (which in RPGs is like 19 hours)...and then BOOM...."Hey, I just remembered we were all in the same pre-school! Wow, we all just totally plumb forgot about that!"

>>1642227
>the draw system is whatever
>whatever
I see what you did there

>>1642162

http://youtu.be/Rfx0ENRjx6I

>you will never spill your spaghetti in front of Rinoa
>you will never dance with her perfectly, just 10 minutes after
>you will never cuddle up with her at night, hearing "i love you" as you fall asleep
>you will never gently rape her anus as you're in an argument

Why even bother living.

>>1642810

If a JRPG has amnesia, I instantly know that it's shit. No exceptions.

>>1642162
Despite the shitty time consuming draw system and the fact that my play through was pretty much trashed all because I opted to grind early on not knowing the consequences, that entire game was a good, memorable experience.

Honestly I liked the end of FF8 game more than FF7 and FF9.
FF7's ending was bullshit and FF9's was underwhelming.

>2014
>Still no FF8 prequel about Laguna, Kiros, and Ward

Watched a Let's Play of this last night. It was about 40 minutes long, and as soon as the guys playing got some triple triad cards they edited out everything that "wasn't important", i.e. not triple triad. It was pretty funny.

>tfw you will never brush your dick against Selphie's pubic hair.
>tfw when you'll never cum all over her pubic hair
>tfw you will never hear her complain how messy it is

Why even bother posting sadfrog.jpg

>you will never live in Balamb Garden
>you will never practice with bros in the training area
>you will never go on a quiz with your hot teacher to tame a fire god
>you will never build yourself a shitty swordgun out of junk that you stole your roommate and hit a mighty fire demon so hard with it that he becomes your slave for all eternity
>you will never arrive too late for hotdogs at the cafeteria
>you will never get that Hot Dog
>you will never be praised by Robin Williams
>You will never be told "whatever" by Squall
>you never just fly away with your school when the missiles approach
>you will never pilot Balamb Garden
>you will never turn cards into nuclear materials
>You will never summon a Cactus to sodomize your foes
>You will never summon Eden and wonder what the hell it is
>you will never get a GF by just downloading one from your computer
>you will never play Triple Triad with Edea with the "Remove one piece of clothing if you lose" rule you brought with you

>>1643189

haha, what.

>>1643218
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZJB-ylRWiI&list=UU84X0epDRFdTrybxEX8ZWkA

In case you're interested

>>1643096
Problem is, you usually have to have some excuse for the player character to not know anything about the world. That way they can ask around, and the player gets that information.

Wouldn't make much sense for a normal guy to be completely clueless about everything.

Granted there are definitely other ways of doing that, but amnesia is the easiest.

>>1643195
you will never drink her piss

>>1642162
I think the GF memory plot makes sense. They are used to create weapons of war and purely for battle. So the individuals who use them longer become more numb to who they really are and thus forgetting their child selfs. They become distant to what they believe in from their own choices to simply just fight, much like actual soldiers. Just have to look at in a different light.

>>1643251
Speaking of GF amnesia plot tweest I'm just going to leave this here before someone comes and claims it comes out of nowhere and isn't foreshadowed at all.

>>1643251
There is an actual reason why the GF memory loss thing makes sense, but it has nothing to do with the retarded shit you just said.

>>1643262
How is that retarded? Similar to PTSD chief.

>>1643250
She will never make this face while you toss her salad.

>a million sadfrogs.gif

>>1643268
Because it completely ignores what the game says and is nothing but wild speculation.

>>1643271
Besides from what >>1643262
Posted, they don't overly expound on why the GFs cause memory loss. You don't need to shit on interpretation simply because your opinion isn't the same.

>>1643274
>they don't overly expound on why the GFs cause memory loss

Except the game does come out and say what causes it, and it is absolutely not an intentional effect.

Seriously, stop being retarded.

>>1642162
>tfw when i found this at a yard sale for 2 bucks recently
>tfw the first disc, and only the first disc is scratched to all hell to the point that it won't work past the first elevator
I just want to play FFVIII

>>1643279
No it doesn't you fucking nitwit. It says they need the power of the GFs which they sacrifice their memories for. It never states why it is that the memories are lost specifically. Simply saying GF power equals memory loss isn't enough for me, and I feel that a somewhat similar PTSD situation makes sense.

>>1643279
Also I never said it was intentional, put more words into my mouth you illiterate moron.

>>1643284
Irvine says it when he reveals the really stupid twist.

>>1643285
Yes you did. Has nothing to do with PTSD or whatever nonsense you were talking about. Just accept you're wrong and move on.

>There will never be FFVIII-2 where you play Squall in his twenties running SeeD and the Garden while being married to Rinoa, fighting extremists who want to exterminate all the Sorceresses in the world, uncovering the secret origins of the Guardian Forces, and ending with you fighting the returned God Hyne who wants to reclaim the other half of his power and destroy humanity.

Am I the only one who enjoys cliches? Modern rpgs that try to be the most unique girl at the dance bore me to death. Cliches themselves aren't bad (Tarantino has made a career out of them) it's what you do with them.

>>1643291
He reveals that they all were at the same orphanage and that they didn't remember each other. That doesn't explain why the GFs cause memory loss it's just showing their memory loss. Anyways that PTSD like situation is I guess more of a theme than an explanation so I should have clarified that so I am a bit retarded. But it is obviously an applied theme of people going off and fighting and losing their childish innocence and self. You cannot argue that that is not a prevalent theme.

>>1643307
Looks like you need to play the game again, because he directly states why GFs cause memory loss.

>>1643297
>it's what you do with them.
The problem is that modern devs don't do much with it either.

>>1643308
Mind stating why, then?

>>1643313
GFs are stored in the same area of the brain where memories are kept.

>>1643308
Please post what he says, because all I remember is him saying he only started junctioning GFs when he joined up with them and that he thought it was odd that none of them seemed to remember.

>>1643316
I do not remember him saying that at all. Mind posting proof of the line? Simply curious now because it isn't ringing a bell.

>>1643320
Stop summoning and maybe you'd remember shit.

>>1643321
Quality post, got me to laugh.

>>1643297
>it's what you do with them.
And most devs just use cliches in the most boring way possible.

Or the story is just kind of a throw away thing, and the real meat of the game is the combat.

FFVIII just doesn't have anything that stands out as being particularly good.

I don't think modern JRPGs try to be unique at all. They just mash together every cliche and trope in the book, add some fanservice/moe shit and call it a day.

Easily my favourite game of the series after VI. Triple Triad, the GFs and item creation were great. Really lacking in exploration but so is almost everything.

>>1643320
Look it up on Youtube. I've already told you the exact scene and what he says.

>>1643327
Fan theories that try to make up for the writers incompetence are the worst theories.

>>1643329
Alright, I still stand by the fact that it's a theme but I believe you.

Does anyone else feel like the romance subplot between Squall and Rinoa was an after-through that they put in and then tried to make more important than it really is? Now I don't have any real evidence for this and kinda like the idea that their romance is continuation of one Julia and Laguna couldn't have but please consider the following:

FFVIII's theme and main plot point is not love but fate and more specifically not being able to go against yours:
It's Laguna's fate to defeat Adel and to become president of Esthar.
It's Squall's fate to become the leader of SeeD and to defeat Ultimecia.
It's Zell's, Quistis', Selphie's and Irvine's fate as the children of fate to defeat Ultimecia with Squall and to become the "legendary SeeDs".
It's Ultimecia's fate to get unjustly persecuted for things she hasn't even done yet, to try to overcome her fate with the time compression and ironically causing the exact thing she tried to pretend.
Everyone's fate lead up to keeping the timeloop in game's world going and its important to note no one really wanted their respective fates which is best presented by Squall not being exactly enthusiastic about people forcing the position of leadership of SeeDs to him.

Now what does Rinoa and the "romance" with her has to do with any of this? Absolutely nothing apart from Rinoa being one of the sorceresses whose powers eventually pass on to Ultimecia and that role could have easily been filled by any other female character in the game with or without romance subplot with her.

>>1643334
Again don't take this too seriously but I can see the discussion about needing to add the romance sub-plot to FFVIII going like this:

>We have just finished the storyline for FFVIII, it's about not being able to go against your fate and time travel.

>Hmm... I don't think people can relate to that.
>WAIT
>NO
>OK
>I GOT THIS
>LETS PUT A ROMANCE SUBPLOT ON TOP OF IT!
>THEN LETS ADVERTISE THE GAME AS A LOVE STORY!
>NOMURA CAN YOU QUICKLY COME UP WITH A LOVE INTEREST FOR SQUALL?

>Well, I have this sketch of this girl I find cute. (BTW: Rinoa actually IS Nomura's vision of cute)

>PERFECT LET'S USE THAT!

>But sir we already have majority of the game done and we don't have enough time to modify it to include this romance subplot of yours!

>DO IT ANYWAY FAGGOT!

Seriously, think about all the scenes featuring Rinoa especially the ones you need to save her. I can't be the only one who thinks the game goes full-retard during them? Or that FFVIII could be improved a lot by having anyone but Rinoa as the forced love interest or simply by removing the whole romance sub-plot from it all-together? Rinoa really serves no purpose apart from being an eventual love interest for Squall and scenes that have focus on rescuing her really feel out of place

>>1643335
Here is an example of a scene about rescuing Rinoa going full-retard and feeling out of place during the battle of Gardens:

>Rinoa is a dump bitch and falls of the side of the Garden
>Hey Quistis, lets go bug Squall about this, it's not like we have anything resembling a rope on us do we?
>Good idea Zell, let's do that instead of trying to help her ourselves!
>Hey Squall, Rinoa is a dump bitch and fell on the side of garden! Go save her!
>Fuck you guys, I'm busy right now!
>10 minutes later
>But Squall, she'll die!
>Whatever, I don't give a fuck.
>But Squall, she is really going to die!
>Oh my god Zell, I'll go if you just STFU
>15 minutes later
>Squall! For fucks sake go save her!
>I don't wanna and I have a battle against Galbadians to lead here!
>Squall, she is going to die!!!
>Fine, I'll abandon all my duties and go if you guys STFU for real this time.
>Squall goes to save Rinoa by running in the OPPOSITE direction from her
>meanwhile Rinoa is still somehow holding herself at side of the garden with just two fingers despite the Gardens constantly ramming into each other at full speed
>elsewhere Squall gets hit by a giant flying platform
>slow paced fist fight ensues
>the opponent eventually falls off
>steal the device by leaning forward
>Rinoa, jump on this conveniently placed rid cord with a foot hole!
>Yay!!! I knew you'd save me Squall!
>Land in middle of battlefield as Balamb students use swords against niggahs with guns
>"I think we're winning, Squall. HURRRRRR!"
>"Yeah, looks that way... DURRRRRRRRRR"

This certainly feels like a part that is full retard just because they needed to add bullshit featuring Rinoa that originally wasn't there here.

>>1643297
They are why Wild Arms was so great. None of the sequels realized the charm of the first.

>>1643334
This is the least sensible post in this thread.

The plot was cliche as fuck, the characters were idiotic like a sniper who's never sniped anyone, and the terms were beyond retarded, even for jrpg standards.

Seeds
Garden
Fire(aga)

I'm glad this game woke me up and I haven't touched a jrpg ever since.

This game pissed me off.

I would always lose at triple triad and then I'd lose all my good cards, and then it became impossible to win.

>>1643356
Dude come on that game is so easy. Just don't spread shit rules.

>>1643361
I still have no idea how spreading rules work.

>>1642162

I think this game is really good but I'm so sick of typing out why

Romantic arc is really good I dont' know why everyone is so convinced it's shit

Oh well now's your chance to call me a faggot or something.

>>1643349
>The plot was cliche as fuck, the characters were idiotic like a sniper

"I am a ______ (profession that involves killing people) but have never killed anyone." is a common shitty Japanese writing trope.

>>1643362
Look up guides, ain't too hard man. Makes it way easier.
>>1643367
I enjoy the romance too. It's a change of pace.

>>1643367
Least compelling romance plot in video games, and ultimately doesn't add anything to the story.

Squall falls in love with Rinoa for literally no reason. That's why you have bullshit fan theories that state that Rinoa used a mind control spell on Squall to get him to fall in love with her.

It just felt like "Well, we want a romance sub-plot, so lets make these two character fall in love, I guess"

>>1643367
>Romantic arc is really good I dont' know why everyone is so convinced it's shit
Now if you really dig into it there might be just enough reasons for Squall to give a fuck about Rinoa but there is little to no fucking reason for Rinoa to give a fuck about Squall unless you buy the Rinoa is an evil mastermind manipulating everyone to do her bigging theory.

Before the game even starts Rinoa is already in relationship with Seifer and depending how you intercept what people say at Galbadia Garden and at the ending of disc 3 their relation ship may have been rather intimate one.
After your party hears that Seifer might have been executed she immediately jumps into to Squall's dick for no other reason than him being the next gunblade using SeeD cadet she found.
Now after you find out that Seifer is still alive Rinoa doesn't make a slightest attempt to try to get back to him. WHY?

Seriously Rinoa is a fucking slut and probably goes after the next gunblade user she finds after she is done with Squall.

>>1643367
>>1643369
Just once I'd like to see faggots like you telling WHY you like the romance arc in FFVIII as I'm sick of typing why it and video game romances in general are shit.

But since that will never happen I'll point out few problems with it and video game romances in general:
-It is nowhere as good as the romances in Grim Fandango, Lufia II and The Darkness are and those are basically the only vidya romances done right
-It doesn't build up in a gradual, believable way but this is a common problem with video game romances
-Games forcing ridiculously unbelievable shit to happen in order to force the predetermined couples in them together is also a common problem in vidya romances and FFVIII features the most prominent example of this: game makes a fucking fully functional spaceship appear out of nowhere just to save Rinoa's worthless ass after her trip to space
-One of the biggest problems with video game romances in general are the uninteresting love interests and Rinoa certainly isn't an exception to this, she is a very bland and generic forced love interest you are supposed to find "cute" and if you don't there is nothing unique or likable about her
-Finally said uninteresting forced love interests rarely have any real reason to give a fuck about main character and this problem is present in FFVIII as well, Rinoa has no good reason to give a fuck about Squall

Now I fucking love FFVIII but its romance subplot is one of the worst ones ever seen in video games and given that video game romances generally are shit tier to begin with (compared to other medias which have been able to do all sorts of romances well for decades) that is saying something.

Am I the only who thinks that Seifer would be a more interesting protagonist than Squall ?
I mean .. keep the story pretty much the same but with Seifer as the hero and Squall as the rival.

>>1643529
Also, because of the intro, you immediately know there's going to be a romance between the two, which allows them to gloss over how or why they get together.

If the intro, and the logo for the damn game didn't imply a relationship, pretty much everyone would be baffled as to how the hell Squall suddenly falls for Rinoa.

But because it's implied from the very beginning, some people just accept it and don't question why.

>>1643552
>If the logo for the damn game didn't imply a relationship

>2014
>people still get the logo wrong, it's a fucking Chocobo

>see this thread
>ctrl-f "romance subplot"

Never change. /vr/.

You know you could live with us forever...
We understand that you live on earth and you REALLY wish to live here.
How do I know? Because I've been watching you, silly!
You just have to do...one thing.

I know this will be tough but once it's over and done, you'll get to live here!
What are you waiting for?

>>1643793
>tfw everyone in this thread really went to Balamb Garden.

>>1643283
steam?

>>1643174
how come we have final fantasy 10-2 and 13-2 and 13-3 and 7-2 through 7-11 but no 8-2 starring laguna?

>>1645751

Because Laguna sucked IMO. Better than squall but that's not saying much.

>>1645751
8 isn't popular enough. FF games weren't supposed to have sequels or spin-offs. FF10 was the first one to break that rule, and after the rule was broken SE decided to go back and try to expand on 7 because it was the most popular FF ever. 8 isn't the most popular, so it gets left behind with all the others.

Maybe someday if it gets a remake that sells really well, but 7 will be remade before 8.

Oh, the biweekly FFVIII/FFVII wanking thread

>>1643195
I wanted to fuck this character so bad once.

What the hell was I thinking? That nomuraface is terrible.

>>1643195
>tfw Selphie will never write about you on her livejournal thingie

>saddestfrog.exe

>>1643334
>Squall and Rinoa
>not fate

>>1642162
Yeah it was pretty incoherent and they basically had to tell you who the fuck the bad guy was in a massive exposition dump at the end of the game.
And even then, you still don't have a chance of knowing what "compressing time" really does or why it would be beneficial to her, and why she was doing it at all.

>>1645547
Not that anon, but 8 was the last FF that I could truly immerse myself in before I got too old and jaded to entertained by Final Fantasy anymore

>>1645547
Not that anon, but 8 was the last FF that I could truly immerse myself in before I got too old and jaded to be entertained by Final Fantasy anymore

>>1643529

..because I was a fucking teenager with no girlfriend when I played the game the first time..

Of course I'm going to relate to Squall and desire Rinoa.

>>1646591
I kind of know this feel.

I really wanted to get into FF9 as it hearkened back to pre-VII Final Fantasy games I enjoyed but I was rather burned out by that point and never even finished. I was totally jaded with Final Fantasy.

>>1646759

I think a lot of it has to do with TIME too.

I played 7 a bunch, Tactics a bunch, 8 a few times, 9 once, 10 twice.. 10 hours in 12, and I haven't touched 13 (despite owning it).

At almost any point in the game if you ask yourself what your current goal is then you won't have an answer.

>>1643332
And that why nobody like FFVIII fans, they completely wrong and retard about everything, even their own favorite game. kek

>>1646747
Even back in 1999 when the game came out and I was a 17 year old teenager with no girlfriend I couldn't relate to Squall's and Rinoa's romance at all. But to be fair in my case this might have been because I have never been into "cute" and have always been interested in older girls instead. If FFVIII's romance had been between Squall and Quistis and Quistis had been few years older I probably would have liked it.

I don't know that I'm too jaded to enjoy final fantasy games anymore. I'm enjoying 14. I just think that every Final Fantasy after 7 was just a bad game. I liked 8 when I played it in the early 2000s, but, like X, I've never been able to replay it. Too slow, too boring, horrible characters, ugly graphics, yuck.

>>1642810
>>1643096
>>1643236
>tfw using GF
>tfw GF gets stored in the memory center for your brain
>tfw GF erases your childhood memories

Thats literally how its explained.

I do think FF8 gets too much flak. I think its actually a fun FF game to play because of how breakable it is. Playing cards is fun, and being able to have Enc-None makes the game very replayable for me.

>>1646591
I have sometimes posted this in FFIX threads but I'll say it again:

Unlike the majority of FF fanbase I have been playing the FF games and many other RPGs ever since I got my hands on the original Final Fantasy for the NES sometime in 1990. Naturally I also played all the other FF games in the order we got them and with every installment we got always offered something new and interesting compared to the previous ones and I also felt this way about most of the other RPGs I played at the time. Now when FFIX came out it was a good solid game (apart from it's painfully slow battles) but it simply felt a tired rehash of the SNES games to me and didn't offer anything new or interesting like the previous games did, the whole time I was playing through it I literally had a feeling of already having done this shit before. Somewhat hypocritically after also being disappoint in FFX (for heading the barely interactive movie direction) I found the "lost" FFs II, III and V and immediately fell in love with V, for me it was everything I loved about and associated with the words "Final Fantasy" with and was a nostalgia trip to my childhood somehow avoiding the "I have already done this shit" feel I had with FFIX.

>>1647140
To add to what I just said and talk more about FFVIII itself:

While I through it felt a bit "meh" the first time I played through it, I didn't hate it and the fact it was different and tried to do new things was refreshing for someone like me who had been playing JRPGs for fucking decade.
Now while playing through it the second time I figured out many new things about it's gameplay mechanics and plot by myself and the fact I didn't have an access to internets at the time made this even more satisfying.
The fact I STILL find new things out about FFVIII especially plot-wise each time I play through it has made it one of my favorite FF games over the years and I have to agree with >>1647118 about Enc-None making it more replayable than the other PSX FF games.

tl;dr: FFVIII was the last FF new game I truly enjoy(ed)

>>1647154
I feel pretty much the same way.
For me, there was something really compelling about 8's world. Like I actually wanted to live there. I mean just the stupid simple stuff, like the trains running at a schedule and reading magazines you found added a lot to it that the games after it never matched.

>>1643339
>implying that WA3 is bad

>>1647118
The irritating thing with that is, your memories aren't stored in one location, but distributed across your brain.

Fujin is my waifu

>>1643320
I'm pretty sure you can read about gf memory loss on your computer at the start of the game.

>>1647241
>implying it isn't a sack of shit

>>1647371
I'm entirely sure that you, sir or madame, are 100% correct.
You and I have a curse, you know. We're near eidetic. We remember things with some rather extreme precision, use that information in conversation or discussions then get called fucking liars because the people we're talking to lack this abilitiy and simply don't recall things as well as we do. :-(

>Draw: The Game

>>1647485
>2014
>not refining cards or the useless shit in your inventory to magic instead of Drawing

>>1647546

....Whatever.

>>1647601
Whatever goes in all fields.

>>1647118
>I do think FF8 gets too much flak
True dat and most of that undeserved hate it gets comes from situations where the players are blaming the game for their own shortcomings. Some examples of this include people complaining about drawing when they simply could have just refined the useless shit in their inventory to magic instead, whining battles being nothing but summoning GFs over and over again when you'd be much better of fighting with your physical attacks and/or limit breaks instead, complaining about how easy/broken FFVIII is when playing through it using a guide or complaining the GF amnesia coming out of nowhere when it's constantly foreshadowed all the way up to the orphanage scene.

Also if people were to play the other FFs with the same mentality they seem to play FFVIII they'd complain about how you absolutely cannot gain a single level in FFVI until you get the +2 espers, how you absolutely must be at level 99 before leaving Midgar in FFVII or how it's an absolute necessity to get Excalibur II in FFIX.
No one is forcing you to Draw for 100 of every magic in every battle. No one is forcing you to fight by summoning GFs over and over again. No one is forcing you to spend ages playing the card game to get Lionheart on disc 1. No one is forcing you to break the junction system. Etc... all of those are things YOU voluntarily did yourself to make your game less fun.

That said FFVIII is a pretty good game if you just play through it normally (like you'd do with any other FF game) but it still is one of the weaker entries in the series.

You will never hear Selphie say
"If your ass is a Chinese restaurant I'll have the poo-poo platter "

>why?.jpg

I liked Rinoa she was pretty. I didn't like how the game encouraged you to keep your levels low, saved a lot to avoid certain card rules, constant resetting in case you lost cards, and card modding everything. The game just screams they wanted to make a card game instead.

Still a little better than 9 because automatically entering trance and no multi-hit attacks or superpowerful characters or bosses was bullshit. It was an SNES game with Playstation graphics and too linear. VI was good, at least that was somewhat open world.

>>1643389
But Squall saved the world and is the top dog gunblade user. There's nowhere to go but down from there. He's the only gunblade user to have ever mastered lionheart.

Though to be fair GFs are carrying his ass anyway so he might not really be X-Men tier.

>>1643356
Did you remember to save the game before activating dumb rules or in case you lose a good card?

>>1648091
>The game just screams they wanted to make a card game instead.

I'd probably have enjoyed Triple Triad much more if it were seperate from the game.

>>1648125
Funny, I enjoyed FF8 more then most people because I totally ignored triple triad...

>>1648138
Bullshit. That makes no sense at all.

That would imply other people were saying stuff like "Man, FF8 sucks, triple triad is such a chore".

But that is literally the opposite of reality. I got through FF8 solely because of Triple Triad. And if you ask anyone to list what they liked about FF8, Triple Triad will be near the top of every list.

FF8 without Triple Triad would be irredeemable.

>>1647461
nigger I'll cut you

>>1648167
Huh, I never played triple Triad Either, and I enjoyed the game.

I for one love FFVIII.

>>1648167
Played triple triad once when I was given cards in the beginning. Although I turned monsters into cards frequently, I never played triple triad ever again

You know what, I've gotten over my hate of FFVIII.

It may have had broken abusable mechanics out the ass, a cast of annoying teenagers and gaping plot holes but it wasn't completely terrible and it had really good art direction and music.

>>1648501
So how did it have broken abusable mechanics? You talking about GF boost and the whole leave the disc open and sift through until you get the end for Selphie? If you mean war gods and the items you use to get into limit without being almost dead then those are rare as fuck only to be saved for big boss fights.

>>1648516
>the items you use to get into limit without being almost dead
Aura wasn't rare as fuck, and I was referring mostly to the junction system letting you blow through the entire game by maxing your stats out ridiculously early on. The fact you could just Aura Renzokuken your way through every boss battle from the middle of the game onwards didn't help either.

>>1648516
The big one is getting limit breaks whenever you want by repeatedly switching the active character. And Zell's limit break can one-turn kill anything in the game.

Also grinding makes you weaker but I consider that a good thing.

>>1648526
There's a chance you'd die if you switched since mobs will still get a chance to hit you. I switched characters for the limits I didn't want to waste a turn especially if I'm low HP.

>>1648526
You could just keep your level low and card every monster then.

>>1642459
>>1642537
yeah nah it's because the guy responsible for it is the same guy responsible for the Ogre Battle series, and he does the same damn thing in that: sets up a bunch of political drama that is interesting in its own right, and then derails it with ancient evils for no good reason

>>1648501
I would consider it one of the weaker FF titles, but I don't actually hate it.

I think most of the hate just stems from it just not being as good as FFVI or VII.

There's actually a bit of good you can say about the game. Triple Triad is probably one of the best mini-games in RPGs, and is certainly a tremendous step up from FF7's bullshit gold saucer mini-games.

The graphics are leaps and bounds ahead of FFVII. VIII and IX are probably some of the best looking games on the PS1.

The music is fantastic, although it would be hard to fuck that up. Just tell Nobuo to go at it, and you're good to go. The story is convoluted as all hell, but the premise and setting of the game is actually kinda cool.

It's kind of similar to FFII in that it tries to go above and beyond the previous games success, and is really ambitious, but it just doesn't quite pull it off.

And Squall is literally just Cloud minus everything that made Cloud interesting. He's aloof and brooding for the sake of being aloof and brooding.

>>1647118
>>tfw GF erases your childhood memories
I remember them saying it destroys your memories period not specifically childhood memories, they should be retarded by now.

>>1647067
>tfw no Quistis romance option
>tfw no whip master to have kinky sex with

Blunder of the century

>>1650023
Losing your memory doesn't make you retarded.

Memory doesn't effect skills and stuff that you learn. That's why people that suffer from amnesia still know how to talk, walk, tie their shows, etc.

>>1650050
>>1650023
I seem to recall hearing this conversation before somewhere.

>>1650050
Well it should be making them highly dysfunctional right, if it zapped their childhood before they started globetrotting I wouldn't put my trust in these nerds finding each other across time and space during time kompression

>>1642361
Or why not just have superpowerful humans or humanoids? Nothing wrong with a human with mutant-like power.

>>1648091
>I didn't like how the game encouraged you to keep your levels low

You're imagining things, because the game doesn't do that.

>>1643195
WHY MUST YOU DO THIS TO ME ANON
WHY

>>1643378
>Did it work?

>>1648043
>first time playing FF8 as a kid
>think its by far the hardest final fantasy ever, grinding didn't help either (because level scaling)

I think its actually one of the best ones now. Yes the story is retarded, but honestly, every final fantasy has a retarded story. FF10 has the biggest asspull ending ever and people never talk about it.

Isles of heaven and hell, junctioning, catching ppl in space, moon monsters
Nuff said

>>1650862
I'm sorry ...I really am ...

>>1643283
Go to a video store and get it resurfaced. It's like 2 bucks

so is Ultimecia actually Rinoa? And is Griever actually Squall?

>>1651229
And Zell is actually a hot dog

>>1651229
Ultimecia is a metaphor for Squall's desire to be alone. She's an unknown force from the future who wanted to compress all of space and time so that she would be the only being in existence. She could only be overcome when Squall learned to trust his friends accept other people depending on him, and Squall was able to return to his own time after the battle because he accepted his feelings for Rinoa.

Basically she's the Anti-Rinoa, which is why she shares the angel motif, except with black wings. The Griever Summon was ripped out of Squall's mind by Ultimecia, the game tells you this outright if you scan it.

>>1651229
>tfw you've been drawing GF out of monsters all game
>tfw at the end a GF gets drawn out of you

>>1651265
>>1651235
>>1651229

Man, fuck this game.

>>1651235

Okay that made me laugh for the first time today.

>>1643195
suck it faggots

>>1646781
Themes are pretty subjective really.

>>1651229
can we at least admit there's something going on with this idea. squall's ring is named griever( with the same connotation as grief) i.e squall being the one grieving over the fate of his lover. the scene in the ragnarok where rinoa wishes the present could last forever. the whole knight motif. if ultimecia isn't rinoa, she at least an incarnation of her. also the boss battle on disk 4 where you fight all the different sorceresses, maybe it's to show all the different incarnations over time. i'm not saying rinoa is ultimecia, but think og the implications.

>>1651337
see
>>1651265
The links between Rinoa and Ultimecia are there and intentional, but not because they're the same person. They represent the opposing forces in the story and in the arc of Squall's character development.

>>1651337
expanding on the idea. the theme song when ultimecia junctions griever is titled "maybe im a lion" squalls ring is a lion. which zell make rinoa a copy of. the game makers implied there is a "maybe"

>>1651265
and seifer is anti-squall. white vs black. long jacket vs short. one handed gunblade vs two. evil vs good

>>1642162

I know. It was terrible. Just like the rest of the game.

>>1651229
>2003
>gamefags kiddies come up with R=U theory since they couldn't figure out Ultimecia's background and motives at the time
>due to these retards I have ended up arguing against R=U and it's irrational supporters for a fucking decade now

>2014
>the exact same people that originally came up the R=U bullshit in the first place have made a FAQ that explains in detail why R=U doesn't actually hold up at all
http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/197343-final-fantasy-viii/faqs/34215
>regardless of this people STILL buy this bullshit and try to grasp straws for it being true or at least "what they originally intended"
Let it fucking go already, every single aspect of it has already been proved wrong either by the people that came up with the theory in the first place, the people that made the fucking game and most importantly the actual game itself.

>>1651337
NOPE. Ultimecia is Rinoa's foil just like Seifer is Squall's and that is all there is to it. The only and I do mean the ONLY possible implication for R=U left in the actual game is being able to name Griever and I'm convinced its there for the exact same reason you can name Rinoa and her dog to your liking, for the potentially funny dialogue, in Griever's case try naming him to Dicks. On more serious note the possibility to name Griever was most likely intended to give a WTF?!? mindfuck moment during the fight against Ultimecia but it didn't really work out as intended as Griever was never even mentioned again between the time you named it and Ultimecia Drawing it out from Squall's mind.

>>1651647
>tfw you wasted a decade arguing over fanfiction tier writing.
Ultimecia, like 90% of Final Fantasy bosses, is just the "big bad". Literally an ass pull "we gotta end the game now"

>Whoever the fuck the boss was in 1-3
>Zemus/Zeromus
>Exdeath
>Ultimecia
>Whoever the fuck 9's final boss was
>Yu-Yevon
>DIdn't finish 12.

Literally 6 and 7 are the only one with final bosses that are seen throughout the game, and are the most developed.

>>1651664
>Ultimecia, like 90% of Final Fantasy bosses, is just the "big bad". Literally an ass pull "we gotta end the game now"

Maybe you should replay the game again and try paying attention this time.

>>1651664
You have no idea how much I hate myself for not being an idiot and figuring out Ultimecia's background and motives on my own in early 2000s and as a result ending up arguing with R=Utards for a fucking decade.
You have no idea how disappoint I'm in the fact after all these years I have been posting about Ultimecia's background and motives people still say she is nothing but a generic "big bad" and asspull out of nowhere.

I sure have accomplished a lot during the last decade, haven't I? I swear to god when the next retarded FFVIII fan-theory comes out I'm going to advocate it with the same mentality people talking for R=U and Squall is dead have used just to give people a taste of all the bullshit I have went through.

I want to cum inside Quistis Trepe.

>playing FF8 requiem
>get up to ultima weapon
>Ultima 2
>Meteor 2
>Light Pillar
>manage to get off a mega phoenix
>attack
>attack
>Light pillar
>Game over

jesus christ

What do you guys think about Final Fantasy 3 remake?

>>1642227

FF9 had a SHIT card game

>>1651664
>Ultimecia, like 90% of Final Fantasy bosses, is just the "big bad". Literally an ass pull "we gotta end the game now"

Ultimecia is the only FF 'villain' that's actually not a villain. She isn't more evil than Squall&co are; both sides fight each others BECAUSE the other side wants to kill them. Like Squall says at the end of Disc1, there is no "bad" guy, it's just two sides with 2 different opinions.

>>1651857
Spite is a slippery slope anon, be very careful.

>>1651972
>>1651664
Also I don't get what you mean with "ass pull, gotta end the game now". Contrary to many FF villains which appear out of nowhere at the VERY end, you learn about Ultimecia at the start of Disc3, that's 60% into the game, and even then, Ultimecia WAS the main villain since the start, you just didn't know it was her inside Edea and behind Galbadia's soldiers, but it was her. When Edea talks, it's her, she's there since Disc1.

>>1651972

What.

She wants to collapse the world to become a god.

How is that not fucking evil?

>>1651972
Not that guy but if 4Chan has taught me anything that no other place outside or inside the wed has taught me, it's that being a complete and total asshole to other people is considered just another "valid opinion" or "objective fact".

Despite claims of contrary, this is biggest hug box of all and FFVIII runs on that same logic.

>>1651985
Sigh... here we go again. For starters check out the pic in >>1651857

Ultimecia only does her "evil" deeds to counter the witch hunt performed by SeeDs (which could also be considered to be an "evil" thing to do) that lived after Squall and his buddies and in an attempt to prevent her long foreshadowed death in hands of "legendary SeeD". If it wasn't for SeeDs trying to fucking murder whoever became "Ultimecia" (it's more of an identity than a specific person) before she was even born its more than likely she would simply had ended up being a nice sorceress lady with funny feet.

SeeDs bullying the sorceresses is the reason Ultimecia became a thread in the first place but on the other hand Ultimecia becoming a thread is the reason SeeDs and Gardens exists in the first place. The main point here is that all of this keeps the time loop in FFVIII's world going and the only way to break this loop would be killing Rinoa off in Ultimecia's presence as this would cause Rinoa's sorceress power to directly pass on to Ultimecia instead of the sorceresses between them who they are supposed to pass on to and thus time paradoxing the entire concept of sorceresses out of existence. Pic related to the idea of Squall and SeeDs in general being just as "evil" as the sorceresses they fight against and dooming the future world instead of actually saving it. Not the words I would have used but the guy who made it has the right idea.

>>1651985
Sigh... here we go again. For starters check out the pic in >>1651857 (You)

Ultimecia only does her "evil" deeds to counter the witch hunt performed by SeeDs (which could also be considered to be an "evil" thing to do) that lived after Squall and his buddies and in an attempt to prevent her long foreshadowed death in hands of "legendary SeeD". If it wasn't for SeeDs trying to fucking murder whoever became "Ultimecia" (it's more of an identity than being a specific person) before she was even born its more than likely she would simply had ended up being a nice sorceress lady with funny feet.

SeeDs bullying the sorceresses is the reason Ultimecia became a thread in the first place but on the other hand Ultimecia becoming a thread is the reason SeeDs and Gardens exists in the first place. The main point here is that all of this keeps the time loop in FFVIII's world going and the only way to break this loop would be killing Rinoa off in Ultimecia's presence as this would cause Rinoa's sorceress power to directly pass on to Ultimecia instead of the sorceresses between them who they are supposed to pass on to and thus time paradoxing the entire concept of sorceresses out of existence. Pic related to the idea of Squall and SeeDs in general being just as "evil" as the sorceresses they fight against and dooming the future world instead of actually saving it. Not the words I would have used but the guy who made it has the right idea.

>>1651985
It's not evil because, that's the only way she thinks she can overcome her fate which has already been written. Little does that she know that it's BECAUSE she's just doing that though that all the events triggered...

The irony in all of this is that, if the two sides would have done what the mayor of Horizon suggested (sitting down and TALK), they would have realized they have no reason to fight each other.

>>1651985
Sigh... here we go again. For starters check out the pic in >>1651857

Ultimecia only does her "evil" deeds to counter the witch hunt performed by SeeDs (which could also be considered to be an "evil" thing to do) that lived after Squall and his buddies and in an attempt to prevent her long foreshadowed death in hands of "legendary SeeD". If it wasn't for SeeDs trying to fucking murder whoever became "Ultimecia" (it's more of an identity than being a specific person) before she was even born its more than likely she would simply had ended up being a nice sorceress lady with funny feet.

SeeDs bullying the sorceresses is the reason Ultimecia became a thread in the first place but on the other hand Ultimecia becoming a thread is the reason SeeDs and Gardens exists in the first place. The main point here is that all of this keeps the time loop in FFVIII's world going and the only way to break this loop would be killing Rinoa off in Ultimecia's presence as this would cause Rinoa's sorceress power to directly pass on to Ultimecia instead of the sorceresses between them who they are supposed to pass on to and thus time paradoxing the entire concept of sorceresses out of existence. Pic related to the idea of Squall and SeeDs in general being just as "evil" as the sorceresses they fight against and dooming the future world instead of actually saving it. Not the words I would have used but the guy who made it has the right idea.

>>1652025
>>1652021
>>1652020
stop

>>1652024

So... she's trying to destroy the universe so that evil seeds are not persecuting her.

And that's totally not evil.

Suuuure.

>>1652171
Meanwhile in the other FF games:
Zemus: I have absolutely no reason to try to conquer the "blue planet" by force but I'll do it anyway.
ExDeath: I'm a tree and I'm evil. Did I mention that I was evil? VOID
Kefka: I want to destroy the world for no apparent reason so I'm the best villain ever!
Sephiroth: I want to hurt the planet because my mommy told me to.
Kuja: Oh noes, I might not live forever so no one else deserves to live either!

At least Ultimecia trying to destroy the universe so that evil seeds are not persecuting her makes some sense compared to the other FF villains and her evilness is mostly result of the circumstances she is forced to instead her just being a dick.

>>1642162
I loved FF9 and FF7 (which i just completed last week).
The other day when I bought FF8, i hated it, only played about an hour into it but the battle system just seemed awful to me.
Should I give it another chance? Or should I buy the the FF III remake on steam?

>>1652271
>the battle system just seemed awful to me
This argument makes no sense when all FFs from IV to IX use the exact same battle system. Anyway give FF8 another shot but this time learn the refine abilities and refine the useless shit on your inventory to magic instead of Drawing and use your physical attacks and limit breaks instead of summoning GFs over and over again which I assume your complaints about FF8's battle system to be.

>>1652242

Zemus: Zemus is a bigot. He hates humans because he feels they're genetically and developmentally inferior to the Lunarians. Rather than invade the humans' planet, the Lunarians decide to go into stasis until the humans reach a sufficient level of evolution for the two species to co-exist without the Lunarians imposing on them. This just fuels Zemus' prejudice further because he thinks humans simply aren't worth the effort in the first place.
Exdeath: Exdeath used to be a non-sentient tree, until some sort of man-made magical phenomenon give him sapience and made him human in appearance. This didn't settle well with him because he was accustomed to being in a non-sapient existence. Instead of simply killing himself to return to his prior existence, he figures it's necessary to destroy all other forms of life to ensure they don't drag him out of the void ever again. Yes it's bizarre, but it has a sort of context.
Kefka: I didn't understand Kefka very well myself. I just figured it had something to do with the genetic engineering and experimentation that was performed on him. Maybe it backfired, made him insane and left him with homicidal tendencies.
Sephiroth: Well, more like he's being compelled through basic survival instincts. Jenova's species is more or less extinct, and Sephiroth may be the only means of kickstarting this species' evolution again. First Sephiroth would have to get rid of the humans who currently occupy the planet in order to make room for another Jenova-like species.
Kuja: Kuja's motives were pretty realistic, actually. Consider how people who are abused all their lives sometimes become bullies or embrace nonsense like racism or homophobia. The only way they figure they can cope with their misery is by bringing others down with them. Kuja is similarly selfish in how he copes with his impeding doom.

>>1652281
Except the various mechanics that differ from each game (Espers, GFs, Materia, Job System, etc) are what set them apart.

>>1652171
Here is the thing, ever since she was born she knows that "a legendary seed from the past" will come in her timeline to kill her because she'll supposedly be a bad sorceress.
When such a fact of your future is given to you, you're looking for a way to prevent it, and for her, since it's her fate, the only way to prevent it is to control space and time.

Sure the mean is radical, but it's not "evil" per se, it's survival.

>>1652320
Yes the CHARACTER CUSTOMIZATION SYSTEMS differ from game to game but they all use the exact same ATB battle system.

>>1652281
the whole GF thing just confused me I guess.
Should I purchase FF III anyways?

>>1642162
Also, what are games that are similar to FF7 and 9? They are my favourite gamez of all time and I just want to play more like them

>>1652376
I haven't been keeping up the recent releases so I'm not sure which FFIII we are talking about but if it is the same remake that III got for the DS don't bother with it and play the fan-translated NES game instead and if it is the III that's actually VI do buy it.

>>1652379
Inside the FF series VI is the most similar to VII and IV is most similar to IX so play them if you haven't already played them.

>>1652293
I knew someone would post a reply like this and while I know there is more to the villains I mentioned the main point I wanted to make with my post the shortcomings of other FF villains are often ignored due to them being in "better" games.

How often you see people complaining about Zemus being an asspull brought up at the last possible point compared to Ultimecia even even when it actually applies to him? Ever noticed how people completely tend to forget Zemus and praise Golbez as good villain? Also shouldn't Zemus be mad towards the Lunarians that put him to sleep instead of the people on the blue planet?

How often you see people saying something in lines of "Kefka is the best villain evar becuz he destroyed teh world and didn't have any real reason for it!!!1!"?Also shouldn't a character that gets as much screentime in his game as Kefka does really have more to his backstory than the one line from one NPC that says that the magitec experiment he went through wasn't perfected yet and warped him a bit?

The problem with Sephiroth is that we never actually see him to do anything significant but burning down Nibelheim and the accomplishments people praise him for are actually made by Jenova projecting his image. Jenova killed president Shinra. Jenova took the Black Materia from Cloud. Jenova killed Aeris.

As for Kuja his temper temptrum was childish as fuck and I don't seem to remember him being bullied but always being a bully working under others he eventually betrayed?

Thinking about it FF games really don't seem to have a "complete" villain that has lots of screentime in the game in his/hers game, good motives for his actions and actually accomplishes a lot.
Zemus is lacking in screentime and motives, ExDeath's and Kefka's motives are rather thin, Sephiroth doesn't really do that much, Ultimecia has no screentime and Kuja's temper temptrum made him hard to take seriously when he finally became the big bad in his game.

>>1652467
This is all true until 12... But that discussion will have to wait till ps2 is considered retro

>>1652467
>I knew someone would post a reply like this and while I know there is more to the villains I mentioned

I haven't actually been following the thread, so I'm not sure if you were responding to anyone in particular. I just posted that one reply after noticing yours.

I don't think Zemus was an inconsistent villain. The game just did a poor job of building up to him. FuSoYa barely goes into detail about why Zemus is so pissed off in the first place.

I would say Zemus is supposed to be an allusion to Hitler or any other genocidal maniac throughout history. His sense of nationalistic pride of genetic entitlement prevents him from abandoning his own species, even if he thinks their motives are misguided. His only interest is to see Lunarians thrive. His belief seems to be that humans can't ever achieve the same social or genetic development as Lunarians, therefore putting his own species in stasis is both pointless and will cause the Lunarians to stagnate or slowly decay into an inferior state. Furthermore, he's not adverse to killing other Lunarians if they absolutely insist on standing in his way. He did take out FuSoYa, Goblez and Cecil, after all.

>Sephiroth doesn't really do that much

Not that I really care for Sephiroth as a villain, but he's very much involved in the world's affairs. All of the problems he instigates are an intentional effort to awaken the planet's "WEAPON" defense system and eradicate humanity.

If you're talking about Sephiroth in the non-Jenova sense, that's kind of a moot point. Sephiroth's human ego apparently no longer exists, and this is made pretty clear the moment Sephiroth goes ballistic on Nibelheim. Whether it's Sephiroth the human causing trouble or Jenova manipulating affairs through a human proxy, it doesn't really matter.

>>1652467
>Zemus
Because he's a supremacist and a megalomaniac. He probably believes that purging the humans and claiming the planet will win the love and respect (or at least fear) of most of the other Lunarians.

>Kefka
Saying he destroyed the world for no reason is doubly incorrect. He didn't destroy the world; he conquered it. And he definitely had a reason even if it was only spite and rage.

>Sephiroth
Sephiroth IS Jenova. When he and the head of Jenova fell into the Lifestream they merged into a single consciousness that possessed both the power and knowledge of Jenova and the will of Sephiroth. He very much did kill Aeris and President Shinra.

Can't remember enough about Kuja to comment.

>>1652521
>Sephiroth IS Jenova. When he and the head of Jenova fell into the Lifestream they merged into a single consciousness

Completely wrong.

>>1652382
Cheers mate.
I meant the DS version, it's recently been ported over to steam. I do have an emulator, but for some reason I do prefer playing games on steam.

>>1652324

No. Murdering literally everyone else in an attempt to preserve oneself is evil. There is no justifying or sugar coating it.

>>1650058
see
>>1643321

>>1652467
>I don't seem to remember him being bullied but always being a bully working under others he eventually betrayed?
He was basically raised by an abusive father/creator who always thought of him as a failure and wanted to replace him. It's a contrast to Zidane who was raised by a man who was tough, but truly loved and valued him.