/vr/ - Retro Games

Use your own Pogeymans.

>>1629496

I know but no time, I don't even know where my old Blue cart is.
Also the stadium cups have their own rules (like Pika Cup, only pokemon levels 15 to 20 are allowed, etc), so that'd mean having to invest a lot of time assembling teams, training, etc... no time for that shi.

But I mean, I get it, if you invest some time, you can win this game, but why give the option to use rentals in the first place? They are useless

>>1629508

>so that'd mean having to invest a lot of time assembling teams, training, etc

Not only that, you also have to spend time and money on items like HP UP, Carbos, etc if you want to have good pokemons, that means you have to beat the elite four a lot of time to gather money.

Basically, it's one of the biggest time wasters of our time, welcome to Pokemon

>>1629516
>Basically, it's one of the biggest time wasters of our time, welcome to Pokemon

Yeah that is pretty much pokemon in a nutshell. I feel satisfied having stopped after gen3. I did play fire red. I just feel pokemon never came close to topping itself after gen 1 and 2.

>>1629528

I stopped after Gold/Silver, I liked it but the game felt like it fucking dragged forever, and I don't think I ever got any pokemon to level 100 on it despite playing for over 100 hours, I was like done. When I saw the TV commercials for Gen 3 I thought the pokemon started to look more generic/uninteresting and just dropped the franchise forever.

From what I've been reading, new Pokemon fans make fun of those of us who only like the first and 2nd generation though, isn't that weird?

>>1629531
Figure that comes from how fucked a bunch of game mechanics are in early pokemon. Stuff like the special stat and psychic being weak to bug which only has 3 useless moves.

There is a common image with a big list somewhere.

>>1629531
It's the competitive scene mostly, though not without reason. Gen I, mechanically speaking, is a bit of a mess and has a lot of odd interactions between moves, unintended glitches, and such. Gen II fixes a lot of that but also has some weird EV limit bypass iirc that leads to sillies.

Yeah it's pretty hard and not fun. I played that game a lot and probably spent as much time on the minigames as I did battling.

>>1629531
If you stopped exauae you feel the series jus got repetitive after gen 2, that's perfectly fine.

What we make fun of is the nostalgia filled hipsters who insist the original games were the best designed just because they have an overly romantisied memory of them.

I don't blame you if you think evetlry Pokemon game is just the same shit over and over and you're done. That's true. But if you don't recognize that the later versions are an improvement in hake mechanics then you are an idiot who likes the memory of being a kid with a gameboy more than the actual games. That's who we make fun of.

>>1629492
It's a little hard with rentals but doable. You need to create a team with 2nd stage not third stage because they have absoulutely shit moves. You want moves that have 100% hit rate and hit hard. T-bolt, Flame Thrower, Ice Beam and Psychic are your heavy hitters. Gambler is the one that will eventually fuck you over but using your fastest pokemon against him improves your odds

>>1629492
I wonder why they never did any other stadiums

>>1629567
>Stadium 2
>Colosseum
>Battle Revolution

>>1629564
>It's a little hard with rentals but doable
>a little

It's hard as FUCK with rentals and barely doable. I just don't have the patience man.

>>1629508

Because if there were no rentals it would lite be unplayable without personal pokemon.
thousands of kids would literally have nagged their parents for a game they couldn't even play. Instead they got the Pokemon: The Ultimate Challenge.

>>1629593

I get that, but the rentals are utterly useless, why did they even bother?

I remember renting this game as a kid and only playing the mini-games.

Truth to be told, the game wasn't mea to be played with rental pokémon. Sure you can do it, but it includes the Transfer Pack for a reason, actually i bought it with Pokémon Red and didn't fought a single battle until i had a Lv. 50 Team i could use.

Stadium 2 got a little better in that regard with less useless rental pokémon, ut it was still meant to be played as a Gen 2 game companion.

Are you really serious?

As a kid of probably around 8 years old I beat all the tournament cup things with the rentals and remember distinctly only not being able to beat the final gym leader tower with them despite hours of trying.
I don't even like pokemon that much and stopped playing after the first GBA games.

I remember Articuno was always on my team and Alakazam. I remember having a hard time when they died and my favorites in the Gameboy game like Charizard were crap because of their shitty movesets.

>>1629607

I guess you had a LOT of patience as a kid, then.
My 8 year old self would have thrown this game to the trash bin and keep playing something better like Castlevania or Contra.

>>1629612

Sure did, and only had two games at that time.

I tried playing it a few years ago and just couldn't deal with every second pokemon having moves that lasted more than one turn.

I did have the adapter pack for the GB game, but I don't remember using it all that much. What I used to do was just use one pokemon so it was level 99 by the end of the game (always my Charizard) so I guess it was gimped in terms of the Pokemon Stadium level cap or something.

Paralysis + Wrap

>>1629492
now this is some stupid ass shit right there what you posted, OP.

the rental pokemon aren't even half bad. seriously. I don't know where you get that. you can easily engage in a few tournaments with an all rental set and still get really far. had the game as a kid and really loved it. I used my own pokemon as well and yes, it was obviously a bit easier since pkmn blue and red give you all sorts of permanent buff items and what not.

the only thing that was shit about rentals was the inconvenient skillset. otherwise, just pick the strongest ones and blast right through to the finals.

>>1629616
>>1629636

I admire you people, a LOTTTT of patience (and time) is ineeded in order to win any of the cups with shitty rentals.

>>1629662
Not really? You just need to know what Pokemon are the best rentals to use, and to not use pokemon just because you think they're cool.

Perfect example is Jynx. Nearly every rental Jynx has Ice Beam/Punch, Psychic and Lovely kiss, so she's a great choice in nearly every cup, and fully evolved pokemon nearly always suck, and the second stage of the evolution line probably has better attacks. Best example of this is Kadabra/Alakazam, Alakazam in Prime Cup has Psybeam, while Kadabra has both Psychic and Thunder Wave, and has barely worse stats, its special and speed only being 7 points lower.

>>1629601
>Stadium 2 got a little better in that regard with less useless rental pokémon
Are you trolling or something? Stadium 2's rentals are complete garbage, Stadium's rentals are better in nearly every way because they actually put some damn thought into them.

>>1629636
the only difference are the levels of rentals though. so I think there is one cup where the level of all rentals isn't high enough. maybe it was the grand 4 finals at the end where you fight siegfried and the others. but even there if you got effective types against his monsters I believe you can still win.

>>1629776
The only way rentals wouldn't be high enough is if you're playing Gym Leader castle and you're using Level 100 imported pokemon, because then the rentals stay at 50 and all the opponent's pokemon are at 100.

>>1629781
yes exactly, I forgot about gym leader castle.

>>1629803
Even then, you had a wrong point. The rentals for every different cup are different, even if it's only slightly.

Here's the Gym Leader Castle/Prime Cup/Poke Cup stats and moves of my previous example, Jynx. They all have different stats, and even though they all share three moves, they're in different slots and the fourth move is different on all of them.

Again, just stop trying to use bad pokemon and you'll have no problem. You can breeze through the Game Boy games easily because the AI is retarded and the trainer pokemon all have 0IVs and no Stat EXP investment, but in Stadium you actually have to try.

>>1629818
Also, if you want a list of all the rental pokemon Serebii.net's Stadium section is pretty good if you can deal with the terrible layout.

http://serebii.net/stadium/rental.shtml

>>1629818
I'm not OP though

>>1629873
And I wasn't talking about OP's post, I was talking about >>1629776 saying the only difference between rentals is levels, and that there are rentals that would be far below what the opponents use.

Fuck rentals.

I used a gameshark on Pokemon Red to give myself pokemon with the highest possible stats and decent movesets. Trying to get a good pokemon in the originals is a fucking chore.

If you want an easy time with Stadium 1, get a psychic type. Psychic type is overpowered as shit in Gen 1.

And then for Stadium 2, get a Kingdra with Rest, Sleep Talk, Ice Beam, and Surf. The only thing that can beat it is another Kingdra with the same moveset. Or getting really unlucky with paralysis.

>>1629897
Based bugged Sleep Talk/Rest mechanics.

I beat both Stadiums and their Round 2s with rentals because I was far too lazy to raise good teams on-cart that weren't just my starter or something. It isn't even that hard, you just have to not be an idiot and pick by moveset and type coverage rather than whatever's fully evolved.

>>1629542

>>1629531
>From what I've been reading, new Pokemon fans make fun of those of us who only like the first and 2nd generation though, isn't that weird?
It's a to-and-fro deal. Started with the repeated batches of people going THE ONLY GOOD POKÉMON WERE THE ONES I GREW UP WITH, ALL NEW POKÉMON ARE OBJECTIVELY SHITTY DESIGNS DIGIMON OVERDESIGNED CRAP I'M SO COOL AND RETRO, then people started overkneejerking into YOU DON'T LIKE GEN 3 FORWARDS YOU GENWUNNER

The CPU fucking cheats.

How is it possible that some trainers in the Pika Cup (which only allows levels 15 to 20) have evolved pokemon like Seadra?
Is there a way to get a level 20 Seadra without hacking?

>>1629492
You must suck pretty badly i remember winning battles pretty easy as a kid

For the record, rental Pokemon have movesets based on what stage in their evolution they're in. This was meant to give lower stage Pokemon more powerful moves so that there is a sort of balance between Pokemon.

Though some Pokemon get really stupid movesets. Just look at the Abra line and it's obvious which set is the best to use.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSp0le7Olf4 Pokemon Stadium is hard i just liked that you can battle with your pokemon from blue and red

>>1632163
Holy goddamn, those are some awful movesets.

I can't believe I used to play with rentals. I couldn't do that shit now. I know too much.

>>1632913
Oh god I laughed really hard.

>rental pokemon
>half of them have surf for no apparent reason

I never understood that

>>1631839
The Pika Cup doesn't test for performance enhancing drugs.

>>1632913
This is why psychic teams absolutely WRECKED THE SHIT out of everything back in the day. It didn't help that often times the good psychic pokemon had ridiculously high speed stats and the ability to learn most of the big hitting TM moves.

>>1633000
It's a good move. Hits hard, has good accuracy, and fucks up ground and rock types that all have low special stat.

Pretty much the same reason why damn near every Pokemon knows Earthquake these days.

>>1633030
Yep. Nothing resisted it, nothing was super effective against it. Starmie, Jynx, Exeggutor, Slowbro, all of them fucked shit up.

And Mewtwo? Nah, man. You're done. A Mewtwo with a good moveset is unstoppable. Once it uses amnesia, it's game over.

>>1633045
Couldn't a dragon with hyper beam hold their own against a pyschic like Mewtwo?

>>1630943
People who get this into pokemon...why not just play pathfinder?

>>1633052
>hyper beam
Worst move in the game. It's not even a dragon move.

Any good Mewtwo will know Blizzard or Ice Beam. Mewtwo outspeeds Dragonite like nobodies business. Dragonite stands no chance at all.

Only thing that can hold it's own is Slowbro or Starmie. But they're not going to do shit for damage against it with it's gigantic special stat.

Chansey can stalemate it. Snorlax with selfdestruct is pretty much the biggest threat to Mewtwo, but it can't kill it. Mewtwo will just recover the damage.

Pretty much only thing you can do is get really lucky with paralysis and slowly chip away its health.

>>1632913
>I remember watching the pokemon anime and seeing satoshi struggle against Sabrina in his gym battle with her. this literally made me believe even the creators knew how badly they fucked up the balance of power in the first gen.

>>1633071
Hyper beam for the damage, Dragonite for the health advantage and no weakness to psychic.

And solar beam is shittier in my opinion if we are talking two-move beams

>>1633073
Except he gets a ghastly and blows her shit out of the water.

>>1633079
Fair enough, but Dragonite literally won't be able to attack. Mewtwo is faster, it shoots off one ice beam, and Dragonite is gone.

Only way to be faster than it is to paralyze it. Then it can get off a hyper beam, but you're not going to kill it in one turn. And you're taking a huge gamble, hoping that Mewtwo won't be able to attack from the paralysis.

There is literally no hard counter to Mewtwo. It steamrolls everything in the entire game.

>>1633073
You say that like they had a hand in making the anime at all.

He fucks her up with a fucking Haunter, and Kadabra would kill Haunter in one turn, no fucking problem.

>>1633085 no no he didn't all he did was make her laugh and get a badge out of pity. he fought for his first true badge against koga (I don't count lt.surge or Erika's battles because they weren't real battles :/ ).
>>1633092 they provided the concept and all im saying is my opinion since they emphasized how powerful Sabrina's pokemon were. I mean holy shit she has a team of level 50's in the game. and her abra trashed his team and then evolved into kadabra (he then was truly fucked), so had they of actually battled I know haunter would've been rekt.

>>1633107
In Red and Blue, her Alakazam was level 43.

In Yellow, they were level 50, but her Abra and Kadabra were fucking useless. And her Alakazam had a shitty moveset.

Interestingly enough, Sabrina is one of the easier gym leaders.

The biggest thing that shows how overpowered Psychic types were is the fact that they introduced two new types the next gen solely to balance it.

>>1633129
THANK YOU. that's another reasoning that proves me right. the creators had to develop new types to balance the power aspect and keep the games "fun for all". Do you all really think they make new types to be creative? No they research what types and movesets are spammed and stabbed by hardcore iv,ev,and egg trainers and then try to find ways to nerf it in order to keep things like they were in gen 1. "gee charizard looks so cool I think i'll use him" when I reality it has shit stats and an even shittier moveset without proper farming

>>1629575
>Implying it's a Pokemon Stadium game without minigames
They were the only reason I even touched Stadium 1 and 2. Fuck Nintendo for removing them.

>>1633067
Because then we'd have to make one for Pathfinder and 4chan has an upper limit on image resolution.

>>1633085
It was actually a Haunter that kept fucking off and the only reason he won is because Haunter pulled funny faces at Sabrina until she forfeited.

>>1629492
I beat R1 with rentals but R2 rekt my shit hard

>>1629601
>Stadium 2 got a little better in that regard with less useless rental pokémon

>Tyranitar
>Bite, Mud Slap, Leer, Sandstorm

>Houndoom
>Ember, Bite, Swift, Roar

>Crobat
>Fly, Bite, Leech Life, Supersonic

>Feraligatr
>Water Gun, Dig, Dynamicpunch, Leer

>Typhlosion
>Flame Wheel, Swift, Rock Smash, Smokescreen

>Starmie
>Waterfall, Zap Cannon, Rapid Spin, Harden

That's just a few of the retarded rentals in the sequel.

>>1633090
If a Dragonite got a paralyze on the Mewtwo, the Dragonite already won since it would just Wrap it to death.

Same if a lvl 100 Bellsprout got in a Stun Spore and somehow lived to see a second round, it would win automatically.

>>1630072
>I beat Little Cup round 2 with rentals in Pokémon Stadium 2

No you didn't.

Oh so that's why the game was hard as balls.

It sucked to be the only kid without a gameboy color as a kid.

>emulating Pokemon Stadium 2
>savestate during a battle
>anticipate opponent is gonna swap pokemon, so I use a move that is super effective to the one they're sending out
>turns out they don't swap out after all
>load state, use a move that is super effective to their current pokemon
>they swap out this time
>load state and retry using both moves a shit ton of times, but on the same turn the opponent always swaps when I use the attack effective on their active pokemon and always stays when I use the attack that is effective against their other pokemon

In other words, it's as if the AI glances at your controller to see what move you make and then uses that knowledge before making their own move on the same turn. Don't bother with these fucking games.

>>1635224
It was always obvious the AI cheats in these games.

>>1635224
As if it wasn't unfair already by them giving shitty rental pokemons if you didn't have the portable games.

>>1629492
1.- Learn to pokemon.
2.- Git gud.

Seriously, I beat R1 and R2 with rental pokemon when I was 10 years old.

>>1635224
i remember the game manual saying 'a true pokemon master wouldnt look at their opponents controller' or something along the lines

>Finally get some friends in school who play videogames.
>Pokemon Stadium just came out, all of us have played Red/Blue/Yellow but haven't fought each other.
>Friend invites everyone over to play it.
>Spend the whole week souping up my team to get everyone as strong as can be.
>Just get repeatedly stomped by Mewtwo all day.

I remember giving up on Pokemon Stadium 2 when I got to the Team Rocket guys. I could just not beat them at all.

I didn't have a transfer pack either.

>>1635313
>telling someone to git gud in a game that has ridiculous RNG

>>1629492
I remember getting caught in an endless Wrap spam cycle.

>>1629559
In English, please?

>>1630943
A few of these, I don't see how they're problems. A few of these are legit frustrating and I'm glad they were improved upon, but are small parts of the game. A lot of these I would only care about if I played competitively, which to me is not the point of Pokemon it's just a bonus.

The sequels did not improve in originality, quality of playthrough in terms of layout, plot, humor, or setting, and the Pokemon have suffered diminishing returns in how interesting they are over time.

Fire Red and Leaf Green are the best, of course. Even with the annoying Servii Island thing filthying up the Pokedex.

>>1635156
How is it going to get a paralyze when it's slower and Mewtwo has Ice Beam?

>>1629492
Here OP, you wanna borrow my Transfer Pak?

Its extremely obvious how much the CPU cheats when you fight the Elite 4. Holy shit they cheat so badly. They'll have things like always swapping to the pokemon with the best defense against your next attack, or have un-fucking-believable chances to not get hit by normally very accurate abilities. I recall them also outpacing you on some moves sometimes even if your pokemon had the higher speed in all aspects.

>>1637767
miss or switch in on a recover

>>1629531
>>From what I've been reading, new Pokemon fans make fun of those of us who only like the first and 2nd generation though, isn't that weird?
It's not only liking the first and second generation so much as blinding insisting that those were the best without even have invested significant amounts of time into the newer generations.

>>1637846
But those ARE the best.

Back when Pokyman was simpler. Back when you could just SEE a Pokyman and you KNEW what type it was. The Flaming Horse? Fire. The Oystershell Ghastly? Water. The Pokeball named VOLTorb? Electric.

This this 3 different types on a single pookemon, resistance against milk, weakness against algebra shit.

Also a lot of the newer designs look like shit.

Possibly I'm not into it because they went from recognizable CREATURES to a washing mashing and killer ninjas.

Some new designs are kool. I mean if you're into the hardcore aspect, I guess they added new features to the game play ( I wouldn't know). I stopped at Porkypog Pearl version.

Its just too much now. Too many to keep up with. Too many "split" evolutions, or baby forms. Mega Drive Evolved forms. 10,000 Eve alts.

That's just my opinion, Anon. Seriously, you guys can keep your 700+ Pookemon and continue to game, I just rather not buy another traditional 'Mon game ever again.

>>1637841
Oh, well, there you go. That's a strategy.

>>1637995
Hey anon, before you rip this guy a new one, let me try to reproduce his point that I happen to agree with in less-awful terms.

They ARE the best games, though.

They're the best because they weren't overly-complicated, and the pokemon's types made more sense; even just from a glance.

The type list has become longer, the dual types have become more prevalent, and keeping track of who beats who has become harder. It has added more balance, but balance wasn't a big issue if you were just playing through the game. The competitive scene exists, and it's alright for them to have their improvements, but that doesn't appeal to the masses.

A lot of the new designs are pretty forced and awful, too. They used to look like monsters and animals, just in fanciful ways. Now there are things like trash bags and ninjas and other nonsense, not to mention pokemon that are more like humanoids. There are absolutely still some new Pokemon that are great. I'm playing through White again (after having gotten bored two gyms in on release), and I'm really liking some of the evolutions I've got on my team, but it's no longer the case where all 150 Pokemon felt fresh, believable, and interesting (and you could keep track of all of them).
And it's not like there aren't new features in the new games that aren't enjoyable, and they polished a lot of the broken stuff from the originals. That broken stuff didn't do much to ruin the originals, though.

It's just become too much. Too many split evolutions, baby forms, mega forms, and other stuff. Not to mention items and complicated evolutions and side games and other madness. The game is not as simple to just pick up and play in a content manner these days, and that's not an improvement unless you're a min/maxing competitive player. By all means, be that guy if you're that guy, but it doesn't necessarily make the game objectively better.

>>1638130
Man these are a kids game. If a kid can pick up and play it no problem then what is your excuse?

>>1638130
Thanks for the translation of my rant, Anon. Well written. 10/10, would read again.

>>1638167
Dude, a kid can pick up and play any game.

>>1637736
>The sequels did not improve in originality, quality of playthrough in terms of layout, plot, humor, or setting, and the Pokemon have suffered diminishing returns in how interesting they are over time.
That's objectively untrue you fucking nostalgiafuck.

>>1637767
You can paralyze it on its set up turn, preferably with another Pokémon than Dragonite when Mewtwo feels safe to use Amnesia.

>>1638130
dude anyone who plays the game without going into the competitive scene can play it and remember the various type matchup or most pokemon, as someone said, if a kid can, anyone can, you could also steamroll the entire game with only shit pokemon in your team. Also the "trash bags and washing machines" thing is another excuse since I'm sure that if Muk, Voltorb and Magneton came out recently many old fans would say "they are just a pile of slime, a fake pokèball and three magnets put together", i.e.: not all the 151 designs were pure gold either.

>>1638458
How?

>>1629559
I'd love to be able to make it through one thread without some fucking faggot using the word hipsters to deride some group of people he doesn't like. That word has zero meaning and you are an idiot for using it. InB4 You mad, Hipster?

>>1638668
Yeah, Magneton is pretty lame, too. The other two are fine.

>>1638458
Not that guy but no, no it isn't.

>>1638167
This is getting off-topic but where DOES this warped conception come from? Children aren't retards. Plus they have exponentially more free time than adults, and a lot more willingness to persevere through bullshit since they don't know any better or have anything better to do.

>>1638857
well for example even if I don't play Pokémon as much as I did when I was a kid I've never had a problem memorizing names, types and match ups, they are very easy to memorize, it's not rocket science or math, come on. Anyway, we are talking about one of the easiest if not THE EASIEST RPG in existence that constantly holds your hand for the entire game, so I find strange that something has some trouble with it (I'll add that the newer games are even easier than the first ones since now everything is more linear compared to the past).

>>1631839
Yellow. Super Rod. Route 13

Besides, you have access to Alakazam. Throw Psychic on it, put it at level 20, throw a bunch of Calcium on it and bam. Instant win.

I remember rental Jynx being able to fuck most trainer's shit solo besides gym leaders and the Elite 4

>>1633071
>Worst move in the game.
Ya- No it fucking isn't.

Kill an opponent and you don't have to recharge. It's fucking rape on Tauros and Persian.

>>1638909
It gets no weakness exploitation and has low PP.

>>1629492
I remember beating the whole thing with a porygon. It evaded every single attack anybody had. I rented this from blockbuster when I was young, they didnt have any transfer paks.

>>1638914
And your fucking point? You only need to use it once to kill something.

A Hyper Beam from a Persian can OHKO a Starmie, one of the most commonly used pokemon. It'd take two slashes to do so otherwise.

I beat this game on rentals thanks to Articuno and his overpowered Ice Beam as a kid. I had no gameboy and obvious no pokemon of mine. I couldn't beat the second one though, it's hard as shit. I defeated the Elite 4 but couldn't beat Red after the Kanto gym leaders.

>>1638130
>It has added more balance
And yet it's still an unbalanced mess in which you have to stick to 30 or so pokemon if you don't want to get your shit wrecked.

i still fondly remember the second time i beat claire, how much i outplayed her with kingler

>Kingler used Guillotine! It missed!
>Umbreon used Confuse Ray! Kingler is confused!
>Kingler is confused! Kingler used Guillotine! OHKO!
>Victreebell used Stun Spore! Kingler is paralyzed!
>Kingler is confused! Kingler used Guillotine! OHKO!
>Magmar used Attract!
>Kingler is confused! Kingler is attracted to Magmar! Kingler used Guillotine! OHKO!

>that random cup in Stadium 2
Literally the only thing keeping me from playing against Silver in Round 2.

>>1638968
Come on, Challenge Cup was like the only balanced thing in entire Pokémon Stadium 2 without your own Pokémon.

>>1638968
Challenge cup is fun. Then again I enjoy Showderp and that mode is basically Showderp.

>>1638983
I dunno man, I'm usually rock solid for the first 5 or 6 matches, but it's the final two that I always manage to royally fuck up.

>>1630943
I wish someone was autistic enough to make a counter list to this.

Not with obvious bait like objectively superior designs, actually clarifying some of the shit and correcting some of the outright lies (focus energy, Swift) for the better or worse.

>>1640752
There actually is and indeed the counter list is autistic enough, he could have just said that some stuff on the list are just lies, some are exclusive to the Japanese versions and they affect the gameplay zero to none if you don't abuse them actively (which is actually fun when you do), some were also just difference in mechanics, which were actually changed for the worse (Hyper Beam now is useless because the recharge turn is mandatory and nobody uses multi hit moves anymore except for a couple of Skill Link users).

>>1640842
Personally I'd point out Earthquake on the Blizzard point.

>Move with 120BP, 90% Accuracy, 5 PP
>UNBALANCED AS SHIT, NERFED IN GEN II
>Move with 100BP, 100% Accuracy, 10 PP
>PERFECTLY FINE, STILL HAS THE SAME STATS IN GEN VI
Guy is obviously calling out shit just because they aren't like the later games. And he neglects to mention Rock Smash has fucking 65% accuracy

>>1640860
Rock Throw. Fuck. Committing sudoku.

>>1640842
>>1640860

The sprites used on that image are also from the original jap Green/Red, I don't know why they didn't use the Red/Blue sprites we got here (which are from the original Japanese version, which was a limited edition I think).

Honestly I think the autism level of that image is too high, like... deal with it, some people just got itred of Pokemon after the 2nd or 3rd game. I personally don't have anything against the new ones, didn't even play them, but shitting entirely on the first gen just because a lot of people have nostalgia for it just screams autism to me.

I like how creepy the original Mew sprite is though.

>>1640867
Some of the Red/Green sprites are also arguably better than the Blue sprites, like Slowpoke, Koffing, Slowbro, Zubat, Dragonair and Jynx.

And again, it's not even mentioning actual flaws with Gen I, like hilariously nonexistent AI and terrible trainer Pokemon movesets. If you pick either Charmander or Bulbasaur, then Blue has an Exeggutor as the champion. Said Exeggutor doesn't even have a four move moveset. Hell, most trainers are like this, even Gym Leaders and the Elite four, the only exception being their highest level Pokemon, which has a custom moveset. Every other Pokemon has the level up moveset a pokemon found in the wild at that level would have, this is why Aerodactyl and Gyarados are the only non-Dragon pokemon to learn Hyper Beam by level up, to make them seem like they're customized to Lance's team. It's also why many pokemon learn relatively useless moves like Leer and Screech at high levels, to give you a chance of not getting hit with a really powerful move at least once. It's also why so many Gym Leaders use Pokemon who evolve by Evolution stones, Pokemon who evolve by stones don't learn any moves aside from their "Custom" movesets, meaning they just had to throw the TM Move on the highest leveled Pokemon and call it a day.

Stadium was actually made to remedy this, since every Pokemon was capable of having a custom moveset, and every trainer had actual AI, not just an AI roulette (and the ability to use items for certain trainers).

>>1640860
in gen VI they actually nerfed the powerful elemental moves to 110 instead of 120 and the ones like Thunderbolt/Flamethrower to 90 instead of 95. Earthquake is retarded indeed though, EVERYONE gets it and it doesn't make sense on many pokemon flavor or stats wise.
>>1640867
I think it's because the majority of Pokémon fans nowadays started with third gen and got fed up with the "only the first two gens are real" thing, so there's this counter-fad now where everyone shits on them. I'd add that for people who started with more recent things it might be hard to appreciate older looking stuff, too bad for them then. I mean, every gen and game has its flaws but I like all of them and that list seems just an excuse for shitting on the first one.

>>1632913
To be honest, there was also Leech Life (known by zubat line, poison type and paras line, who sucks)

>>1640842
I'm just going to consider this image to be a bait/troll image because of a complete lack of reading comprehension and overall hostility when they can't come up with a rebuttal.

>>1640897
>I'd add that for people who started with more recent things it might be hard to appreciate older looking stuff,
I never understood this. Especially for people who post on /vr/. Fuck, appreciating older games is the entire point of this board, and it's not like people don't like more flawed games despite their flaws.

>Pokémon Stadium, rentals only
>second run, Vermilion Gym
>After several tries, finally against Lt. Surge
>Golem against Raichu. They were both the last pokémon.
>Raichu used SURF!

14 years later and I'm still mad.

>>1640908

I swear EVERY FUCKING CPU POKEMON in Pokemon Staium have surf

>>1640905

point is the games became better, there's no argument against it

>>1640924
You could argue that certain "improvements" were actually for the worse, and that the games didn't need any improvements in the first place.

>oh no, it has glitches!
So fucking what?

>>1640924
depends on how you look at it, for Pokémon they might have improved the mechanics and removed glitches (but there are fucked up shit and glitches now too and sincerely who cares about issues about always useless moves like Rage, Bide, Focus Energy or Fury Swipes, nobody uses them even now), but modern Pokémon games are way too straightforward and way easier (at least for me) compared to the older ones (i.e.: "you can't pass here because there is a bullshit blackout in the next area, come back when you defeat the Gym Leader), while in the first gens you have almost total freedom to visit all the cities after Cerulean and Goldenrod city respectively.

>>1640930
Eh, being able to visit all the cities in the game up to Mahogany pretty much immediately after Sudowoodo is what fucked up GSC's level curve.

>>1637713
>www.youtube.com

>>1640932
they did it good in RBY, they could have managed the level curve better in GSC while retaining the exploration freedom. I've never had major problems with the level curve though and if that's what it took to have total freedom to explore the rest of Johto and Kanto, without being railroaded with laughable excuses, so be it.

>>1640940
No. Fuck that. Give me railroading over level 17 wild Pokemon in areas that only unlock after the seventh fucking gym. I don't care if Kanto opens up after you beat the E4. I don't care if the game isn't even half way over yet.

That shit is retarded.

>>1640945
I noticed that the level curve starts going wrong even before Sudowoodo, like for example in Slowpoke Well Team Rocket seems to have a bit underleveled Pokemon already, so I think we could have had freedom and good level curve at the same time without mutually excluding each other.

>>1640940

gen 1 has extreme linearity and tries to lengthen the game by placing forced trainer battles everywhere...it's the most grind heavy of any of the games

the pc and menu architecture is cumbersome

all those boulder pushing strength soukoban puzzles are pace breaking

it's not just mechanics or graphics or extra convenience...later games improved in every way

please realize there's no sound way to defend this junk and it's purely bias that can't even be put into words

>>1629492
can't even transfer my mew and mewtwo fuck this game

>>1641034
and yet it's still the best gen with gen2

>>1641034
Honestly, gen 1 and 2 are the best.
Simply because if you aren't playing for those two gens of pokemon and honestly are taking the game seriously, then you need to play something else. These games are mainly for nostalgia, and if you actually care about graphics or are overly intent on perfect gameplay then you are simple. They aren't meant to be taken very seriously, so if you want to play games that are serious about gameplay then stop playing pokemon.

>>1641034
did you play the later games? it doesn't seem so from this statement. Gen 1 is the less linear of all of them since you can visit the towns in pretty much the order you want, while the latter ones, especially V and VI, often consist of a straight line to follow and nothing more. About the trainer battles everywhere well, EVERY gen is like this, there are small differences about that, there are way more trainers in the later ones actually (I'm replaying them these days so I'd know).
About the PC feature and menu, well, it's expected from a company to improve stuff like that (even if GF has the bad habit to implement something cool in a gen and remove it in the following one). Also fuck, those puzzles are piss easy and were fun to do as a kid, compared to the latter where those things almost completely disappeared, maybe GF thinks that kids nowadays are retarded (and are probably right). The first gens didn't hold your hand as much as the latter ones do.
If everyone had your same thought I suppose /vr/ wouldn't even exist since your statement sounds like "all old games suck because the new ones are better"

Come on, OP. I was six when I played this game and I got all the way up to fucking Mewtwo in a year's time.

Learn the AI behavior, rule of thumb for games. ESPECIALLY turn-based games.

Recently finished this game again. Pretty fun, though I swear the Body Slam parahax is more common for the CPU.

get gud

You could, you know, just use the team you used to defeat the original game proper. that is if you didn't solo it with Starters or Psychic hax.

I always thought that Pokestadium was just a continuation of the original anyway.

>>1633129
>Sabrina is one of the easier gym leaders.

hard to say considering Kanto Gym Leaders tend to be ridiculously easy Except Misty if you didn't get a Bulbasaur

>>1640908
>RIDE THAT SURF!

>>1641696
>Except Misty if you didn't get a Bulbasaur

What kind of child in 1998 didn't catch Pikachu in Viridian forest?

>>1641734
didn't say she was difficult as she was slightly challenging.

which makes her the most challenging Kanto gym leader by default

>>1641746
>>1641734
I've always hated Pikachu since the anime, so I've always boxed it. I let him follow me in Yellow but rarely used him in battles, but strangely I've never had troubles with Misty, even when choosing Charmander in R/B, I usually stomp her with Nidorino or something like that, Horn Attack is very useful early in game. I agree that Sabrina is the "most challenging" Leader though, Kadabra and Alakazam were beasts back then (the latter was my first lv.100 Pokémon)

WHAT'S THE MATTER, TRAINER?

>>1640887

>that Arcanine

Dear god, Gary, get it together.

>>1640887
>>1640887
Yeah, it's not going to keep me from still loving the original games the most, but that's actually a legit flaw that is going to irk me now that I'm paying attention to it.

>>1642270
His Exeggutor doesn't even have four moves

>>1641034
>forced trainer battles everywhere
Gen I had the most avoidable trainer battles of any game.

Yes. People have counted.

Who are the good rentals in Stadium 2's Gym Leader Castle, anyway? The only ones I could find that were consistently good are Fearow and Houndour

>>1642698
Stadium 2 has shit rentals all around.

I think Dodrio might be good?

>>1642698
Kingler for the clutch strats

>>1638960

>>1641734
the one who had pokemon blue

>>1642698
Don't bother with the rentals, assuming you're emulating. You can just transfer your team from a rom with a certain plugin.

>>1629492
The battle frontier in the name games is similar, eventually the AI just starts cheating.

>>1642884
If Stadium cheats, least it's not as blatant. I think it was proven that the RNG is slid in the CPU's favor in the main games.

so sad you can't play with mew/mewtwo, they put in legendary birds why not mew/mewtwo

>>1642887
the battle factory is the worst, the leader is a cheating whore picking everything that beats yoru team.

>>1642891
You can use Mew as a rental in Round 2's Prime Cup. Naturally it's inferior in every way to the last trainer in said cup's Mew.

>>1642893
This little runt. Every single goddamn time I get to him, his first Pokemon is one that outclasses mine in every way, and has the type advantage. Makes the Challenge Cup in Stadium 2 look fair.

>>1641058
>STOP HAVING FUN A WAY I DON'T

>>1633045

>And Mewtwo? Nah, man. You're done. A Mewtwo with a good moveset is unstoppable. Once it uses amnesia, it's game over.

I'll take Exeggutor for $2000.

>>1642939
Blizzard. You now have a 10% chance of not dying.

And your Hypnosis only has a 55% accuracy.

>>1642939

I guess that's my bad. My Mewtwo is Psychic/Recover/Swift/Thunder if I remember correctly. It's been like 10 years.

>>1642887
Stadium cheats a lot. Not only does it cheat like described in >>1635224 but on team previews, even if you let the AI "pick" a team before you, the opposing team won't be chosen until the battle actually starts, and it ALWAYS depends on what Pokémon YOU picked.

I think the AI is basically programmed to always make the best move possible, and at some random turns it gets to do the optimal counter-move to what you do, as if it is "predicting" you (like switch a Pokémon to render your move useless) to simulate playing against real life opponents.

>>1643197
I don't know. The AI is pretty fucking retarded sometimes.

I was doing a runthrough of Stadium 2 a few weeks back, and I was on the Champion battle of Round 1's Gym leader castle. I had a Level 100 Mewtwo, a level 37 Lanturn, and some other random pokemon. Sent out the Lanturn for shits and giggles and used thunder wave. Lance switched his pokemon. And then he did it again. And again. And again. And again. I ended up switching to Mewtwo out of frustration, because he was just stalling the entire time while I used Surf and barely did chip damage.

It was the stupidest fucking thing I have ever seen.

>>1643258
The AI gets stuck in loops like that sometimes. I found it happens a lot with Will in the elite four, where he'll spam switches between Xatu and Girafarig

>>1643197
>and it ALWAYS depends on what Pokémon YOU picked.
Are you sure? Because I've seen plenty of occasions where their selection is a big disadvantage against mine.

I just lost a battle I had a 3-1 advantage on in Stadium 2 because I got fucking frozen by Ice Punch twice, and my useless Pokemon didn't want to break out.

Pokemon Stadium 2's Earl's Academy was great, I'd like shit like that in the actual games more often.

>>1644046
Forgot to mention it was the Challenge Cup, so I couldn't use anything good.

>ITT: /v/ gets their asses handed to them by pokemon

>>1644147
they fucking cheat

>>1638901
anons aren't complaining about it being difficult
it's just gotten to a point where its stupid
it wasn't necessary to memorize pokemon types because they made sense in gen 1
even in gen 2 the only pokemon I can remember being surprised by the type of was sudowoodo, and they did that intentionally
and it's not just stupid, design-wise its worse.

really, this is a matter about being `gamey' / `immersion-breaking'. The fact that you're handling a game and not existing within the world is becoming more and more apparent throughout the titles as the internal logic of the games continues to fall apart. and just because it's going to be brought up, the logic of magnetite / muk existing doesn't matter. Things just pop up like that in pokemon, and that's perfectly acceptable. What's not acceptable is magnetite being water type, because their abilities are derived from what they look like they can do. and if magnetite has no relationship to water in its design, within the world of pokemon, it shouldn't have any relationship to water in its attributes.

but the new games aren't following that structure anywhere nearly as strictly as the previous titles. This is what leads to claims about it being nonsensical and absurd.

It also doesn't help that pokemon are being more grounded in our own reality rather than the imaginary reality pokemon derives from. pokemon used to be like 90/00s disney characters. Now they're leaning more towards 90/00s cnn.

pokemon shouldn't be cnn.

>>1643671
It's not necessarily in their favor every time, but it DOES depend on what team you pick.

>>1644091
>tfw learning about STAB moves for the first time
>tfw learning about EGG groups and move inheritage
>tfw learning that Thunder hits a flying target or that Earthquake hits a digging target

Thanks game.

>>1644183
it's called strategy. the game is beatable.

>>1644356
>the game is beatable.
I don't think most people ITT said otherwise

>>1644356
They...Cheat, especially that little shit
>>1642897

>>1644367
It's really not so much that they cheat, especially the battle factory guys, you just realistically can't do what they do in order to prepare for them.

>>1644376
They automatically start off with a pokemon that counters yours

>>1644356
Earlier in the thread, someone bragged about beating all of Stadium and Stadium 2 with just rentals.

Well, here's a video of a guy with the mathematically proven optimal team for Little Cup round 2, attempting to beat Little Cup round 2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bne5KFpi7PY

Now, winning 5 battles in Little Cup round 2 with just rentals is no easy feat, but is completely doable, I've gone the distance myself a few times on console. But the final guy, Rex, will just tear you a few new assholes and throw you into the 2nd thursday next week.

The guy starts fighting Rex at around 1:57:20. With constant use of save states, it takes him until around 2:37:10 before he finally manages to win. Now imagine doing that fight on console. It's just a huge game of complete chance at that point, you cannot predict what the AI is gonna do, and as if that wasn't hard enough, practically every move he makes has the potential to spell immediate death for you.

Sure, anyone can fucking beat this game with their own trained teams, but if you attempt to play it without that luxury, you're going to find just what kind of unfair bitches these games can be.

>>1644672
winning 7 battles*

>>1629492
it's meant to be a challenging game. Back in the day, people did actually replay the main games many times to get multiple TMs and PP Ups and such. I remember a guy who wrote into Nintendo Power with a team of six Mewtwo. And there were plenty others that had four members knowing thunderbolt, or other multiple TM teachings. It was just what you did if you were serious about the game, and about beating Pokemon Stadium. The rentals were there to let you try it, but you were expected to work if you really wanted to win, especially if you wanted to get the special pokemon or finish Gym Leader Tower. Besides, using your own is the point. It says so on the box, battle your pokemon on the N64. To not use your own hard-trained Pokemon is to miss the entire point of the game.

Furthermore, Pokemon never really stopped improving. It's generally agreed that there was a drop in quality around Diamond and Pearl, but they've only picked up since. Pokemon is a series that continues to refine and improve its core gameplay and mechanics, and deliver an experience which can simultaneously satisfy old and new players alike. At its core, every Pokemon game is pretty much identical. It's the consistent additions and improvements that really make the sequels and remakes shine over the originals. I can't stand to play them anymore, because I finally got tired of it all, but I still recognize that they've only gotten better with time.

>>1635143
That Starmie isn't terrible, but Zap Cannon could better be replaced with Thunderbolt. The rest are horrible though.


It also helps in Stadium 1 that Psychics were still OP. Even just picking all psychic types helps you a great deal in that game.

>>1633067
Is Pathfinder that intensive? I know some people who play it.

>>1644809
Yeah, I abused the hell out of the Missingno glitch to get multiple TMs for moves like Thunderbolt and Blizzard. All worth it for that Surfing Pikachu though.

>>1644187
I don't really agree that there's any real absurdity in the newer pokemon typings compared to the older pokemon typings. I mean, maybe there were some in Black and White (the electric eels which are pure electric instead of being water/electric come to mind), but overall they still seem fine to me. Are there designs I don't like? Sure. Despite this, I don't agree that designs are any more or less difficult to analyze. I didn't even play more than 10 hours of black and white and haven't touched X and Y, but I bet I could easily determine the typing of a pokemon from those generations based purely on picture and name.

>>1644834
Ha! I wanted a Surfing Pikachu so much, but I didn't know anything about glitching except that it could ruin your game, and I was afraid to try it (didn't stop me from going gameshark happy on Gold and Silver though).

I remember reading the Pokemon Stadium strategy guide and being amazed that in the second Gym Leader Tower, Lt. Surge had two surfing pikachus and one surfing raichu. There was also a jester somewhere where every pokemon on his team only knew Metronome and Toxic. They really had some crazy teams in that game.

>>1644843
I did like how in the Stadium games, the trainers had strategies that kind of fit their theme. Like the Gambler who spammed OHKO moves, or the Beauty in Stadium 2 who was all about Attract.

>>1642954

exeggute learns sleep powder

exeggutor has a high enough special, a lot of mewtwos only have psychic because the other moves are amnesia / substitute / recover / maybe something else

haze does exist but only one pokemon that can learn it isn't poison, vaporean who is kind of meh and wouldn't be able to damage him much

he'd need to be stunned or asleep first

>>1645052
>Substitute
What. I think you mean Blizzard. For the exact reason that it counters Exeggutor (and Parasect but he's rarely used).

>>1644809
the problem with Gamefreak is that they often implement a cool feature in a game but they remove it in the following one, every generation has had its pros and cons, in fact I enjoyed them all for different reasons.
>>1644843
yeah Eelektross is one of my favorites, I think it was fun to have deceiving appearances compared to the tying.

>>1645062

substitute protects mewtwo from sleep and paralysis, keeps its stats from being lowered and only electrode outspeeds it

nothing resists psychic except other psychics (mewtwo can still overpower those), there's not a good reason to carry blizzard because it doesn't need the coverage

"psychic counter mewtwo" would be better with sword dance / body slam or something

also do you realize exeguttor's special attack is also his special defense

>>1645184
couldn't thunderbolt/blizzard/recover/amnesia work? the boltblizzard combo is a perfect coverage I think and you can hit for SE hits slowbro, starmie and exeggutor, only chansey could tank some hits, or amnesia snorlax maybe. I know psychic has stab but once you have set up with amnesia you don't need it anymore and I think an electric-ice based movepool would be way deadlier.

>>1645196

it's not just stab, psychic has a 30% chance of lowering special in gen 1

for competitive play where the pokemons are predictable that'd be good, in stadium though where the teams are unpredictable would feel safer with substitute, paralysis is hugely crippling and there is no way to cure it in gen 1

>>1638108
> Hoping my opponent misses with a move that has 100 acc

Best strategy ever 10/10 new metagame right here

>>1645410
Hey, you technically have a 1/256 chance.