/vr/ - Retro Games

I feel sorry for the misuse of pixelated graphics nowadays. From all indie ganes I played, only one had a bilinear filtering option, volfarr the viking.

With all these new indie games promoting their artistic ineptitude as "being retro", while 3D is already looking much better? Not anymore.

>>1618117
>artistic ineptitude

It's been discussed.
Turns out it takes teams of -established pixel artists- being paid good salaries to make those gorgeous visuals properly.

The indie guys are good enough at what they do.

>>1618117
Dropping inbetween frames to simulate 2d animation is so face-slappingly brilliant I don't know why cel shaded stuff didn't try it before.

>>1618131
No I don't mean those who ACTUALLY know what they're doing, I meant those who DOESN'T know and simply slapped "muh retro" to it. And you can't argue that there are more of the latter.

>>1618131
I don't think that's the case for a lot of 8 and 16-bit home computer games. Even many Amiga titles with nice graphics were done on the cheap. And frankly this example image here
>>1618117
isn't any better than retro pixel art, IMO. It's a totally different style altogether. In fact, I don't find very much 3D stuff to look good at all. And bumping up the resolution doesn't make the game prettier IMO. When you do that, you have to add lots more detail or the game feels "empty", but then that detail can become obviously repetitive very quickly, because it's unatural to have so many identical textures everywhere It's quite a strange effect... For that very reason, I always play Doom in the original 320x200 mode rather than using the ports that try to "improve" the game.

>>1618209

I've often said (including on this board) that I thought 3D games looked shit until about 2006, and I've been scoffed at. As a kid I always hoped new consoles would mean richer 2D games, but that's not the way things went.

>>1618094
>when it can express and display so much than 3D could ever do.

That's bulshit.

>>1618094
>it can express and display so much then 3D could ever do

>>1618131
>takes teams of artists being paid good salaries

>>1618221
>"3D" games looked like shit until 2006

>>1618250
Only old 3D games that were trying to look realistic looked like shit. Low-poly is coming back as a retro style a la pixel art because it has its own neat papercraft/origami look.

>>1618257
yeah i gotta say i dig it
like part of me wants to be a hipster dipshit and hate it
but it looks great
that's a great model

>>1618257
low-poly thread
obligatory

>>1618270
more from this guy > http://vslean.tumblr.com/

>>1618270
It took me a few seconds to realize who it was supposed to be.

>>1618274

>>1618276

>>1618280
in action: http p3d in/eIDcQ
anti spam won't let me post the link

>>1618287
fuck it ate the pic
here it is
and the link again http p3d in/eIDcQ

>>1618290
http://vimeo.com/47810138

>>1618292
more from the dude that made the chopper >
http://www.kennethfejer.com/lowpoly.html

>>1618294
http://www.madpxl.com/other.htm

>>1618298
http p3d in/u/FirearmsPackBL

>>1618135
Because low frame rate CG animation looks like shit. It's like using stop-motion animation in theatrical films: filming moving things with a camera produces motion blurred frames, but filming motionless objects produces frames that end up looking plain stuttered. Most anime studios nowadays use low framerate CGI for various mecha scenes (mobile suits, cars, spaceships, giant robots) but it still sticks out and doesn't look as great as traditionally animated mecha.
I haven't seen any 60FPS GGXrd gameplay footage so I can't judge it that well, but IMO the intro, winning and other animations with slow movements look somewhat jarring. Still, judging by Youtube, the gameplay looks pretty good. I don't like some of the sudden camera effects (dust, victory, etc), though.

I don't know why traditional animation looks better than CGI in low frame rates. If I had to guess, I'd say it's either the power of imagination (filling the gaps) or the skill of the animators (making the transition between each depicted movement much smoother).

>>1618257

'3D games until 2006' guy here, this is an important caveat to make.

>>1618221
games around 1999-2001 seem to have better graphics quality because of a better match of poly-count and texture resolution.

later games often had too high-res textures on too low-poly models, or sloppy high-poly models, or high-res textures but not more varied tiles of textures. this lack of quality is especially visible around "HD mods" which do nothing with the models but up the texture resolutions, making everything look out of place

>>1618305
Computer tweening can't do this!!

Well it can, but it'd require the animator to model and pose everything manually anyway.

>>1618221
It's give and take. I feel you though, honestly always hoped that there would be more complex 2-D games, pixels are kind of a lost art form now that's mainly relegated to hipster indie shit and used more on a nostalgic nod or gimmick rather than any artistic merit. (Not ALL the time, but most of the time).

>>1618491
I agree with you and above post sort of. I think that just in the last iteration of games has 3D really made significant strides. It was either like you said, trying to crunch grand textures on inadequate models, or just straight up bad modeling. I went back to play some old 64 games recently and the graphics on some are just absolutely terrible now, suffer from nostalgic filter big time.

>>1618257
I think it's interesting that stylized art has held up so much better over time than the games that tried to go over the top. Megaman 64 kind of comes to mind looking at that model. Also as much as I hated it at the time because I wanted the Gamecube tech demo like everyone else....Wind Waker has held up beautifully, and is one of the best looking games from that era...and can arguably compete with current gen games.

>>1618094
Dat Cammy booty

>>1618824
I had a crush on Cammy as a kid when I got the New Challengers as a kid.

Man, I love New Challengers

>>1618221
Do you count textures as part of 3d games looking bad? It is kind of 3d art...

I booted up Mass Effect 1 the other day and my eyes nearly bled. Garbage textures. And that game came out in like 2009 or something.

>>1618718
>I think it's interesting that stylized art has held up so much better over time than the games that tried to go over the top. Megaman 64 kind of comes to mind looking at that model. Also as much as I hated it at the time because I wanted the Gamecube tech demo like everyone else....Wind Waker has held up beautifully, and is one of the best looking games from that era...and can arguably compete with current gen games.

Same. It's funny, that "epic" spaceworld trailer has aged much more than Wind Waker has, even though I still look back at it fondly.

>>1618094
3d, 2d, it doesn't matter to me. I just like good art direction. I do pixel art and 3d models because it's fun to see what you can make using limitations.

>>1618270
katamari of the collusus?

>>1619529
It'd be awesome to roll up some of those colossi.

I like how kof 13 took the approach to pixels if you could call it that. SNK always had a way with their backgrounds when it came to their older games.

>>1620440
They did a weird 3d wireframe to model the moves w/motion capture, and then drew over the, right? Something like that. I know motion capture was involved in animating Art Of Fighting 3.

>>1618094
i love pixels, OP. it has a charm that 3d lacks.

also, it's perfect for perlers.

Just look at a 3D kirby game to appreciate how great 2D pixels can be. I have no problem with 3D, but I think it often lacks a huge amount of the charm found in 2D sprite art and all too often lacks a lot of the stylistic subtleties found in 2D games.

Also why the hell is this thread here? Who on this board would possibly say they don't love pixels?

>>1620523
my nigga

>>1620523
>>1620641
That looks horrible.

>>1620972
Unfocus your eyes a little.

>>1620523
>>1620641
I've been meaning to buy some perlers to do stuff like that. What exactly would I need to do so?

>>1620972

They look better from a distance.

>>1620972

You must apply some filters to look better.

>>1620972

You must apply filters to make it looks better.

>>1621267
it's quite easy, anon. i started out with a 11k perler tub(around $10 at any craft store) , a super perler board ($10) , parchment paper or baking paper and an iron to meld them. dl some sprites from spritersresource or take ss from whatever game you have and you're good to go. the only trouble you'll run into, at first, is getting the melding the way you want it. i, personally like to meld them flat.

>>1621709
I was probably going to order online, but I guess I should look around for a nearby craft store first.

I'll need an iron too.

Anyway, thanks.

>>1621789
that's fine. one thing about the tub though is that it has 30 colors all mixed so it will be a pain to organize them. now i buy the single 1k color bags, they're pricier but there's no hassle, and i also ditched the superboard for the smaller ones that connect (pic related).

I just know that I love that ass, be it pixels or 3d models.

>>1621832
Goddamn it I have enough hobbies as it is without getting interested in this garbage too.

>>1618094
>>1620523
That kind of visual effect can be achieved in 3D, the only reason it doesn't is 3D never understand the strength of a stationary camera and a deep focal length that Pixel games emulate.

They make the camera swoop in all over the place and get as close as possible to everything It's fucking annoying.

>>1618131
I don't know, man. I've seen some beautiful shit in MUGEN.

>>1618094
It's kind of a weird issue, as pixel art is becming easier to make, but 3D has always been a difficult process.

For instance, much of the newer pixel art wasn't rendered on the computer. Most of it is now hand drawn, then scanned in and manipulated withing the resource budget, whereas 3D has to be built from the base within the computer.

>>1621886
What's silly/ironic is that sprites for 2.5D games like Doom often started as actual, physical, three-dimentional sculptures, which were then photographed from different angles and edited in a computer to make the sprites.

Is the technology there yet to three-dimensionally scan an object and convert it to a high-poly model? I remember it being a big deal in the early 6th gen that they could make character models with decent likeness to real-world actors, and I remember seeing John Cleese on TechTV sitting in this big machine that beamed lines all over his face to scan him into some 007 game. Was that just a bullshit prop to make the process seem more high-tech than it really was, or do they really have stuff like that?

>>1621919
You can scan it alright. They did this with the likes of games like War Gods. Your base model, however, has to be rendered in 3D, and the scans are essentially place as a texture map to overlay the polygon.

>>1621886
>Most of it is now hand drawn, then scanned in and manipulated
That was standard since at least the mid 90s.

>>1618276
this monster!!!! that's what it should look like. why don't any indie faggots create games like this?

>>1621946
Like I said...newer. You weren't seeing this during the 2600 era.

Bunp. How do I into low poly making?

>>1620510
Actually, you'd rather call Art of Fighting 3's process as "Rotoscoping", since they did capture footage from some actors doing poses and movements, but sprites were drawn over each frame.

>>1621953
>new to vr
>mid 90s
>newer
dear god, i have found my true home

>>1626857
same. Just awesome.

The fact that people aren't making pixel graphics anymore show their lack of practical importance. It's sad to see them go, but as an art form, the medium will remain.
Can't understand the purists, though, whining how because it's easier to make pixel art with certain photoshop tools that the medium is dead.

2D sprites are so much better than 3D. I just can't explain my love of 2D in a way that does it justice.

Vector graphics are the way forward. The use of ways to describe graphics such that they are resolution independent will be the great evolution 2D game engines have to undergo.

They can be rendered at the player's resolution prior to the game actually executing and then cached, ensuring no performance loss.

>>1621323
Which filter is this? It actually looks pretty good.

>>1628578
>vector graphics
so you want Adobe Flash browser games and untextured 3D games?

also for true vector graphics you need an analog display capable of vector graphics. your typical TV or monitor still turns any image into a mesh of pixels

>>1628878
>Adobe Flash browser games
>untextured 3D games

No.

>your typical TV or monitor still turns any image into a mesh of pixels

That's OK. As long as we can scale and transform without loss of quality, it'll still be good.

>>1628884
>As long as we can scale and transform without loss of quality, it'll still be good.
you are missing the whole idea of vector graphics completely, and still thinking of Adobe Flash games-tier "vector" graphics

>>1628878

https://gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/30111/why-dont-more-games-use-vector-art

>that tryhard kid who hates new-retro games
>EHHHNN YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO USE PIXELS PAST 1999
>ONLY GAMES MADE BEFORE I WAS BORN ARE CAN USE THIS ART STYLE

>>1618094

>That cute anime face

>Tight body.

Cammy has yet to look better to me than she did in SFII after all these years.

>>1628919
What about Vektropolis ?

>>1629415
It doesn't have to be like that. You can render quality 2D graphics with vector graphics formats.

It's just a matter of artist tools catching up and making it an attractive enough technology.

>>1629424
Do you have any visual examples? I'm thinking of stuff like in Minna no Rhythm Tengoku or Paper Mario or SMW2.

>>1618094
>when it can express and display so much than 3D could ever do.
What? You're delusional. SFIV is the best looking street fighter to date. Gyakuten Saiban 4 looks better than any previous game in the series. MK9 is the best looking Mortal Kombat game ever. Super Mario Galaxy and Super Mario 3D World put to shame sprite-based Mario games. THe Wind Waker is the best-looking Zelda game ever.

You're fucking stupid.

>>1618094
>pixels
Fucking shit are you using that wrong as fuck.

>>1629591
Dunno about Mario, SMW and All-Stars have some of the best pixel art Nintendo's ever made. The new games look great, but they're also bland. They're not charming and won't be well-aged like Mario 64 is.

>>1629619
>The new games look great, but they're also bland.
I'm not sure what you're even talking about. Look great but are bland? In what sense? Regardless, behold.

>>1629619
Super Metroid and Yoshi's Island are way more impressive than those.

>>1629619
64 has not well aged at all you delusional fuck

I find it interesting that the japanese 2D Pixel style evolved the way it has because of:

1) Early monitors needing at least 640x200 resolution to properly display Kanji;
2) Lack of any serious PC upgrading culture more or less locking the standard monitor res to 680x400 for the most of the 90s.

Heck, I think that the graphics of most japanese console games of early 90s were originally of higher resolution, made to be intentionally "squashed" into lowres to create an illusion of an much better looking game than was actually capable of rendering, similar to what Capcom was doing with horizontal squashing with wide pixels in the CPS2 arcade boards.

>>1618257
>mfw I used to work with that guy

>>1629623
There's just nothing interesting about it, it's too predictable

>>1629805
It's true, I forgot about those

>>1630303
Then why do people mod new games just to add the courtyard map to them?

>>1621946
What book is this from? Any link? Always wanted DS concept art

>>1630812
>There's just nothing interesting about it, it's too predictable
Predictable? In what sense? What do you even mean by that?

I love SMW, but saying that SMG et al are "bland" or "predictable" is just weird. Are you sure you arne't just ridiculously, mindlessly nostalgic? Because, thruth be told, it sounds exactly like it.

>>1618094
3D's become just as expressive as 2D now

>>1631880
Strongly disagree with your example there. Xrd looks like shit compared to XX series' sprites.

>>1632010
The style may not be to your taste, but there's no denying they replicate all 2D effects flawlessly

>>1628585

>it actually looks pretty good

>>1628907

But I like muh eyes

>>1629591
I agree with you mostly. 3D is the way forward but not some default "it will look better cause it's in 3D" easy solution. What looks best is a matter of beauty, so wether something is pixels or polygons is never the first issue.

SFIV for example is not the best looking Street Fighter (all your other comparisons hold up though). Street Fighter III has better nuanced animations, with some amazing detail in the movement of muscles and clothing making the characters look much more alive than their stiff puppet counterparts in SFIV. There's also the matter of SFIV levels looking aesthetically anorexic and boring when put next to stuff like the SFIII:2i level pictured.

>>1629587
SVG?

It's the exact same kind of images we're used to, only instead of it being a static bitmap at a fixed resolution they're described as a program that the computer runs in order to generate that bitmap at any resolution you want.

http://codinginparadise.org/projects/svgweb/samples/demo.html?name=spcar&svg.render.forceflash=false

Notice how the entire image is literally drawn by the computer step by step. Now try scaling that shit by zooming into the page with your browser.

>>1635114
I wish my PC was slow enough to watch what you say , it actually renders everything instantly

>>1635131
That's great. Old ass Q6600 Quad Core @ 2.4 GHz here...

>>1632132
Yes there is, because it was extremely obvious to me that they were doing the fugly SFIV thing the first time I saw footage of the game. It can't be "perfectly" replicating 2D art when it's obvious that it isn't.

>>1635131
Try the "ratedpg13 - be patient" one

>>1635154
wasn't obvious to half the net so good to know you're an elite pixel-spotting pro. Also their method has really little in common with SF4's so you're just being contrary now.

>>1636661
I am sorry you have such poor perception.

>>1634187
>Mega Man in New York

I'm convinced people who say they like pixels are really more interested in tone.

>>1621709
I sorted all of mine, took hours, old pic, I have more now. Haven't made anything in awhile, no black beads T_T

>>1621832
he got mangled before I knew how to operate the iron, now he just guards the entrance to my room

>>1621832

>>1630801
What are his polygon-art influences as far you know? I can make out some Mega Man Legends/Tail Concerto in those models.

>>1638581
There's more of the image in the Windows version, but yeah, the pixel art looks more crisp and clear.

>>1638581
you know, ignoring the fingerape that's some really nice pixel art

>>1638929
considering what she's wearing and that it's anime that's 100% consentual

>>1628901
I don't think he was ever referring to vector monitors like what you'd see on a Tempest cab. I think he does mean Flash game-style vector graphics, but this really isn't a bad idea if the computing power to do it well is ever there. Obviously the image would be displayed on a raster monitor, but it would be as clean and smooth as the monitor's native res, no matter what. 20+ year-old games look blocky when you put them on a high definition display because the raster graphics can't scale. I'm not saying this is inherently good or bad aesthetically; I'm just saying that with vector graphics, games would only be as pixelated as the monitor used to display them. Having tried to vectorize some raster images, I know how resource-intensive rendering the graphics can get when there's a lot of detail, so making this look good is still a ways off, but I don't really think this is a bad idea for future 2D.

>>1638581

>that's what people mean when they say pixels
>she didn't ask for it

>>1638634
yeah, black beads are the most used color. i usually have a couple backup bags.

>>1639178
only sane reason for using vector graphics i can think of is the animation (vector operations vs frames - infinitely smoother)

>>1635114
it still breaks if you zoom enough. fixing that requires even more detail done, which will need a lot of work. and even more (and I mean unrealistically more) processing power, to the point that it really isn't on the realm of videogames (like how raytracing isn't). of course you don't really need to do that if it won't be used in that way, but isn't that the same reason why pixels are pixelated, considering the screens were 320x200?

>>1640370
forgot picture

perler sprites would be more interesting if they used the same color palletes as the original otherwise they look bad. Even better would be 32bit color perlers