/vr/ - Retro Games

>lots of characters (that you actually have to use, and the game is actually pretty challenging at later stages granted you aren't exploiting the bugs
Because it forces you to. Some of the characters were just useless, some were Umaro, some were too good. I also had the feeling that it had TOO many characters at times, forcing you to use and keep track of them all while you would actually only want to use a select few. That said I prefer FFV, but FFVI was a very solid game as well, one of the definitive RPGs of the 16-bit era.

>All those characters

I have two things to say about this:

1. The fact that most character's stories were non mandatory missions in the last third of the game was great. If you didn't care for someone, you didn't have to do their storyline.

2.I endorse group leveling mechanics where characters you never use gain a modicum of experience to keep them at least manageable. Because Reis and her dad suck the big ones.

Time for a subjective character ranking list:

Top tier:

>Umaro
>Gau


...

Actually, they are the only two that I really cared for. Umaro dished out the punishment, and Gau was just fun to use with one of the best sidestories.

Celes is still easily the best character in the game. Mage/knight, good magic ability and can equip heavy armor.

>>1594752

Story ranking list:

1. Shadow
2. Setzer
3. Edgar
4. Celes
5. Locke
6. Sabin
7. Terra
8. Cyan
9. Gau
10. Relm
11. Strago
12. Umaro
13. Mog
14. Gogo unless you believe Gogo is Daryl which bumps her up significantly

Battle ranking list:

1. Gogo
2. Umaro
3. Sabin
4. Edgar
5. Cyan
6. Terra
7. Strago
8. Celes
9. Shadow
10. Setzer
11. Locke
12. Relm
13. Mog
14. Gau

The fact that you can't control Gau makes him completely useless for me.

Prefer V, but I still think VI is great. Just wish half the cast was actually good in battle.

>>1594785

>Battle ranking
>Cyan
>#5

You might be the first person to think that Cyan is good.

>>1594752
> Taking Umaro and Gogo to the fanatics tower was hylarious.

I like Cyan as character but he is pretty awful especially later on.

>>1594614
>the game is actually pretty challenging at later stages granted you aren't exploiting the bugs

Eh, I personally didn't think so. I easily got through WoR with natural gameplay. The only challenging part was being forced to use my underused characters.

>>1594808
I'm the second

>not sending Umaro and Gau on auto-pilot while charging up your swordtechs.

though why he put Gau as last in battle ranking is beyond me.

FFVI is definitely my favorite numbered /vr/ Final Fantasy Tactics and XII are better

>>1594785
>12. Relm
>13. Mog
>14. Gau
I can tell you're a mash-A-through-battles kind of guy.

Gau is for strategic players who understand the pros and cons of each of his rages and which battles they're a good fit for.

Relm is another strategic gamer's player. Knowing who she can sketch/control and what abilities of theirs she can use can get you through really hard dungeons at low levels.

Mog attains perfect physical defense faster than anybody else which makes him a indispensable for obtaining certain rare items in the colosseum early on. Again, getting the most out of the game means getting the most out of Mog.

Also he equips spears which give him double damage with Dragoon Boots. Paired with Dragon Horn, he can do massive damage to multiple enemies. And since jump has a long charge time, he's not waiting around for Cyan to charge his sword techs. Same story with Gau; he always has something to do.

Just out of curiosity, what does your Kefka's Tower team setup look like? I bet it's horribly inefficient.

>>1594943
Though the whole sketch bug thing brings Relm down in my books (even if it was patched eventually).

Though she does have great magic stats.

>>1594943
Never liked Relm. I always felt that personal magic was more reliable than sketch.

What is your favorite game-breaking strategy /vr/?

>>1594972
Vanish/Doom

>>1594972
I donno, I just had Umaro boss around and tried to make sure everyone had element absorption.

I just passed around Esper without rhyme or reason, I had no idea what innate skills people picked up from them. Attacks like "Merton" or whatever it was confused me, bcause I had no idea what element they were, and it would kill half my time and heal the other half.

>>1594943
Not that guy but I myself merely button mashed and knew almost nothing about Gau, but Gau was still broken as fuck.

the Were-rat rage basically killed every random encounter I had.

>>1595016
>Fighting Ifrit/Shiva
>Start of fight
>Gau, become a brawler, and dish out some damage
>Gau rages
>Gau throws stone at Ifrit
>9999 damage
>Battle ends

I had no idea what happened until I told that story on here and someone pointed out the following fact:

>Brawler's stone deals 9999 damage if the enemy is the same level as you

Lucky as fuck I was.

>>1595030
reminds me of the Exor fight in SMRPG

>>1594943
Not the guy you're replying too but ranting about strategy and tactics in FF VI is quite silly.

You can beat the game with any team composition without exploiting bugs. Character stats really don't matter that much past a certain point in the game because the magicite system allows you to build 'mage' Cyan, 'warrior' Relm and whatnot if you feel like. All you need is to grind enough for all the three parties to survive Kefka's tower, which shouldn't be a problem.

I loved everything about this game on my first playthrough, the story, the characters, the monster design, the music, but it suffers from a common problem among retro jrpgs, random battles eventually become a chore because there isn't any challenge to them. You get too many resources you'll never need, too many spells you'll never use (sleep, paralyze, confuse etc...) because random monsters can be killed in one or two hits and bosses are immune to them. You struggle with money and equipment in the beggining and in the last quarter of the game you don't even have slots anymore in the inventory.

This is the sole thing i hate about rpgs, but i guess this is because rpgs are meant to be played for the story rather than the challenge.

>>1595083
That's why you have bonus bosses

Though even FFVI's bonus bosses were pretty easy.

>>1595083
> All you need is to grind enough for all the three parties to survive Kefka's tower
You're only proving my point. Option A is to grind through the game. Option B is to use your abilities effectively.

> the magicite system allows you to build 'mage' Cyan, 'warrior' Relm and whatnot
Again, that's just another ineffective use of the characters' natural abilities. You only need at most 4 mages for the fanatics tower, and the game provides them for you (Strago and the grils). Teaching any of the other characters any magic just causes them to waste turns in the coliseum casting it.

Converting any of the characters into warriors is just a waste of their abilities. The only character who can't do anything but melee is Locke. Every other character has magic based abilities that are better than attack.

>>1595113
Yeah one thing FF6 is lacking are good bosses that you can't overpower too early. The only good way to get any challenge out of the game is to low-level it. I wouldn't recommend one of the as-low-as-you-can-go challenges where the main strategy is to spam vanish/doom, but just a normal playthrough with no grinding and skipping the non-character sidequests in WoR like Ancient Castle and Fanatics Tower.

>>1595137
As soon as one character learns quick, or ultimate, and has above average gear, you can go handle the last boss and just about anything as long as you're not an idiot.

>>1595157
seriously was there ever a more broken variation of the ultima spell?

>AOE
>little to no split damage
>non-elemental
>can be learned by all
>easily can do max damage

An even better way of breaking FFVI is to get Gau's Rafflesia Rage (enemy only available in that mansion in WoR)

Rafflesia has the ability Entice. This is a charm spell that no enemy or boss in the game has an immunity to (they forgot to program it)

It also doesn't wear off. It can only be fixed by using Dispel and obviously no enemy or boss has the ability to do that.

So yeah, cast it on Kefka and go get some fucking crackers or something I don't know

i alwayd hated how locke's special was a simple"steal"

like hes one of the main chars give him sometbing cool like sabin or cyab

>>1595214
>implying mug isn't the GOAT ability

>>1595214
mug > steal > *

pretty much in every rpg

>>1595157
What's your point? I just was recommending ways to get some challenge out of the game. I specially mentioned skipping Ancient Castle where Raiden/Quick is obtained (mainly because the enemies there give massive experience, which defeats the purpose of a low/medium-level playthrough). As far as Ultima, most players choose the Ragnarok Sword over the esper and obtaining the paladin shield officially constitutes as grinding.

>>1595252
> mug > steal > *

> pretty much in every rpg
Except FF6.

mug + genji gloves > mug > steal > *

>>1595197
>mfw unblockable charm is a thing in this game
Any idea if they patched this in the GBA port? I might be inclined to boot the game up again and try that.

Also, you mean that mansion you find Relm in? With all the trippy paintings and whatnot?

>>1595171
The FFX iteration is essentially the same thing except it can break the damage cap.

>>1595317
though it is overshadowed by the whole brokenness that was Yuna.

>>1595306
Not patched to my knowledge.

And yep. Just run into the enemy once and you're good to go when you get to the Veldt.

>>1595323
Was Yuna really that broken? I didn't really ever power level very much, I got the most use out of Auron/Lulu with someone else backing them up with support buffs/healing. Auron was great until you started overdriving every other turn, but Lulu almost always hit hard and a lot.

>>1595334
Any character with their ultimate weapon can be broken, but whereas everyone else's ultimate takes effort to complete, Yuna's doesn't so you got assload magic stats and every magic spell cost 1 mp, including the very powerful ones.

Ultima was powerful but I one-shotted almost all of the final bosses with Holy

>>1595228
>>1595252
>>1595304
You mean Capture.

http://www.insanedifficulty.com/board/index.php?/topic/4748-brave-new-world-build-guide/

The above is a link to mod of FF6 which makes the game on the whole harder and resolves the "red mage" problem the original has. Just in case anyone wants to replay FF6 again and wants to spice things up.

>tfw I can never fight FFVI final boss for the first time again

>>1594614
I love this game but it wasn't hard the last time I played because I always grind like crazy and get everyone in a Final Fantasy game to 9999 hp.

>>1594789
Is 5 really that good? I'm going to have to play it after I finally beat 7.

>>1595742
V has one of the best combats in the series, with lots of customization, job and ability options and good puzzle boss battles. While usually recognized and highly praised for its customization options and combat, V often gets flak for its story but it's actually good, especially if you play with the better GBA translation. It just doesn't take itself too seriously and likes to overtly play out as a shonen anime about the power of friendship so people assume it's a joke game and doesn't have "dem plots" because darkness doesn't dwell in everyone's soul as they cut their wrists and dye their spiky hair black.

>>1594785

I don't get the Dayrl/Gogo thing.

>>1594785
>can't control gau so doesn't like him
>inexplicably likes umaro
wut

This game might have my favorite soundtrack of any game I've ever played.

I can't even count how many times I dropped the controller just to listen to whatever music was playing.

>>1595889
I completely agree, I even downloaded the soundtrack, and I've never done that for a video game. Kefka's theme is incredible.

>>1594972
Use the sketch bug to give everyone economizers and gem boxes way before you should even be able to find them.

>>1595891
My brother being a huge nerd bought Grand Finale, the orchestrated FFIII/VI soundtrack. I was looking up the GF version of Kefka's theme on YT a while back and found this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubOa_EyafaU

You'll like it.

Bro also had a vocal soundtrack to the game.

>>1595904
Oh my god, chills already.

>>1595904
Holy shit, they're amateurs.

Why did they have to make Terra's hair blond in subsequent appearances to FFVI?

It's blue in the game, and should be blue because she's half-esper for chrissakes.

>>1595918
I'm seeing green hair there.

>>1595919
I guess it is more green than blue, but it certainly isn't blonde.

Has there ever been a villain with a more perfect theme than Kefka?

It does a better job representing his personality than any VA feasibly could.

>>1595918
It's blonde in Amano's artwork, maybe they drew the concept art and sprites independently.

>>1595914
Yeah, they make at least three mistakes that I notice (possibly more?) but not everyone can be a Chinese musical automaton.
Ever watch 12 Girls play live? Or videos of them playing live? They're like little human music boxes with absolutely zero variation or soul. That's what happens when you're taught via the Suzuki method. Ugh.

I'd rather have a musician make mistakes than be a Suzuki-trained robot. This is why Lang Lang will never be as talented as Radu Lupu, despite his Curtis education. Second coming of Liberace indeed.

>>1595929
>Has there ever been a villain with a more perfect theme than Kefka?

"I'M INSANE LALALA" is a perfect theme now?

>>1595937
I mean his theme music.

>>1595937
I think he's speaking of dancing mad.

>>1595937
I think it's more than "I'm insane", it's "I'm insane, but to the point that I believe wholeheartedly that I am a god."

>>1595929
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vytROLrXaTE

dat Psycho violin screech doe

>>1595946
Ah yes.

Although Kefka's has to be my favorite, there's no denying that Exdeath is the shit.

At least they used "whom" correctly for once. Too bad the rest of the (GBA) translation sucked. I'm guessing it was handled by Alexander O. Smith, who seems to be in charge of localization since FF12. Harvard grad or not, his usage of English is suspect at best.

http://ribbonquest.tumblr.com/post/27345835953/friendship-is-magicite-lets-play-pony-fantasy-6

You guys should definitely play this one. They did an amazing job with this re-translation and re-balancing.

Might be the definitive version of Final Fantasy VI.

FF6 is an incoherent mess. I didn't grow up with the game like everybody else. The first time I got around to playing it was in my early to mid twenties, so I wasn't viewing it with nostalgia goggles like the rest of you.

- Weird spaghetti Western / steampunk crossover setting that just does not make sense in any context.

- The villain is a genetically engineered, omnicidal clown who wants to destroy all living things for completely inexplicable reasons. The only sense I can make of this is that Kefka is just extremely nihilistic by nature. So much for elaborate characterization.

- On that note, there are too many forgettable characters. I can appreciate that the writers wanted to make the cast of the game much larger than your typical FF, but only a few characters reserve any space in the spotlight. There's a total of 16 recruitable party members, and some of them don't even have speaking roles, much less any story arcs that revolve around them. Many of the NPCs are additionally forgettable, or are introduced just long enough to be killed off and written out of the remainder of the story with no long-term consequences following their deaths.

- Characters are supposed to be distinguished by class-based roles, but their skillsets aren't very useful. You're better off teaching them magic and relying on benefits and passive abilities granted by rare equipment. Some characters are too tedious and impractical to develop at all, such as Gau. Learning all of Gau's abilities is a nightmare for completionists.

- Very linear story and game progression. I feel like the world map is designed to tunnel me directly from one area to the next, with no real sense of exploration. I rarely find the opportunity to take detours or go on sidequests. The game opens up by the time you get an airship, but even so. I much prefer open worlds like in FF2 (Famicom) or the SaGa series.

>>1596081
Sigh....I'll bite

> Weird spaghetti Western / steampunk crossove
Magic was forgotten and technology was on the rise, the context was logical.

>On that note, there are too many forgettable characters.
I cannot see having more characters, even if they are a bit underdeveloped, as a bad thing. And most characters have their own spotlight quests. The only two I can really think of that don't have stories are Mog and Umaro.

>Characters are supposed to be distinguished by class-based roles
Not necessarily. Customization is up to the player. I will admit that some characters are impractical, but only subjectively.
Also, >nightmare for completionist
I have no compassion for completionists. And it just makes it that much more of an accomplishment

>- Very linear story and game progression.
The entire last third of the game is open world side quest time, which should count for something

>>1596116
>mog and umaro
And Gogo. And Gau.

>>1596123
Gau story was my favourite. Didn't you meet his father?

>>1596116
>Not necessarily. Customization is up to the player. I will admit that some characters are impractical, but only subjectively.
FF6's party is literally "what if we took most of FF5 classes and made each of them a separate character?" You can customize characters with Espers, yes, and in the end the magic you learn that way is more useful than most characters' innate skills. That was exactly what the guy said, and I agree. Gameplay-wise, FF6 had too many characters, and if the game didn't force you to use all of them in forking dungeons and whatever, you'd still end up always using a select few of them with the same magic learned.

>>1596125
Meh. It adds no depth to Gau at all. None.

>>1596137
>That's, like, your opinion, man

>>1596134
But the number of characters ensures a more diverse appeal.

Sure, SOME think Gau is shit, but I think he's awesome.

More characters allow for more players to have more opinions, like

>RELM HAS THE BEST MAGIC STAT GOD TIER MAGICIAN
>But she's shit and her skill is shit.

>>1596116

>Magic was forgotten and technology was on the rise, the context was logical.
This doesn't make any sense. What does this have to do with the Western / steampunk crossover? More specifically, what does this have to do with *Western* themes? It's not a logical flow. Magic > Western > Steampunk?

>The entire last third of the game...
Yeah, and before that, I have to spend hours being tunneled around the world and forced through linear objectives. That's not my style of gameplay.

To be fair, I did go out of my way to beat the entire game. I honestly lost interest by the time I reached the village with the burning house, but I told myself I'd give the game a chance anyway. I still have no desire to go back and replay it.

>>1596151
I thought you meant western in the occidental way, not the cowboy way.

Where did you get the cowboy theme?

>>1596153

You didn't notice all the Western overtones? The main theme (or Terra's theme, I suppose) was even overtly Western. To compliment this, much of the early environments are desert-like.

>>1596170
>Desert=cowboy
That's a stretch.

And most of the time I don't play my games with the volume on, so I am unaware of cowboy music in FF6.

But I am aware of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ_868pQXIk

>>1596081
Nostalgia goggles? I love it, and I played it for the first time only three or four years ago.
Also, it makes less sense to complain about the setting of a fantasy game, where "fantasy" is even in the title of the game than the setting it self does.
In terms of plot, whatever, I don't care about plot very much, it doesn't affect how fun a game is for me.
What I love about the roles is that you can make almost everyone out to be however you want if you work long enough. Same way I feel about FF2.

>>1596180

FF2 was actually my favorite game in the series, even though the storyline was somewhat lacking. I wouldn't compare the character development to FF6 at all, though. It's completely, radically different. Characters in FF2 can equip anything from the get-go, can dual-wield without requiring any accessories, can purchase and learn any spell at any time, can train their attributes in any manner without the need for Esper boosts, and aren't restricted to any kind of class-based roles. In other words, FF2 characters are able to specialize in everything at once.

>>1596178
>And most of the time I don't play my games with the volume on
You're missing out on a huge part of what makes FFVI great if you do this,

>>1596185
I still think both ways are fun.
Of course it's not the same, but there are definitely aspects that are similar with the Esper system.

>>1596178
To say that FF6 had a cowboy theme is an extremely dubious claim and certainly a huge stretch, but it did have this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZl-PL_goyk

>>1596185
I dunno, the mechanics of FF2 really seem to reward specialization over trying to make everyone good at everything. At least in terms of time invested compared to reward.

Spells - particularly status spells - get massively more effective as they gain levels, and without shields and high evade your front row dude(s) will be taking more damage than is necessary.

>>1596043
One of my major gripes with Square's new translations is how they change so many names for no damn reason, often destroying references to previous games in the process.

>FF2
>Good in any way
Game was shit, shit story, shit mechanics, and the only reason I beat it was a I lucked out by using the blood sword on the last boss as a last ditch effort and finding out it is broken vs. him

>>1596204
Hey man, there's a difference between your level of enjoyment and another person's. I think FF9 is boring as hell, but everyone else seems to really like it.

>>1596209
I also don't like FF4, which is another one people seem to really like.

>>1596204
FF2 had a decent story in that it was a 80's video game with a story at all. Agree about the mechanics though, things were easily breakable, full of unintuitive shit like left-handedness, there was no balance at all. They had good ideas like the stats system or the revolutionary idea of "having story and characters in a videogame", but everything was extremely flawed to the point where it's baffling such a failure of a game didn't end up becoming the real FINAL Fantasy. Dungeon and enemy designs were ridiculously sadistic as well (dungeons full of doorways leading into empty rooms with 100% encounter rate? mobs of enemies with instant-death attacks that are an assured game over unless you spent the entire game leveling Evasion?)

>>1596204
>as a last ditch effort
Nigga did you seriously go all the way through Pandemonium without using a single buff spell?

>>1596248
I remember using haste and bersk but that's it

>>1596226

Honestly, you just named everything I liked about FF2. I guess we play games for different reasons.

You have to bear in mind that when Kawazu set out to design FF2 (and the SaGa series, since it was based on similar elements) he had a specific audience in mind. Kawazu was one of the original visionaries behind the FF series, but by the time it came to the SNES, it diverged substantially from the original concept. Games like FF4 and FF6 belong to a whole other series or sub-series, essentially. It's a different kind of audience.

>>1596257
If his HP drain was fucking you up, you were probably dual-wielding or not spamming Blink.

>>1596257
Blink adds to your evasion multiplier. A level 8+ Blink combined with decent Evade% will make a character much harder to hit, even if their natural Evade mult. is low.

>>1596271
No, every attack I laid out on his final for never did more than double digits.

Blood sword bypassed his high def and destroyed him

>>1594785
>putting gau and mog last
>wind god and moogle gear tank
GTFO

>>1596281
>No, every attack I laid out on his final for never did more than double digits.
Then you were doing something wrong

>>1596297
Probably, but I still beat him.

> not using Mog as a Dragoon

Stay Pleb

>>1596701
I use Edgar as my main dragoon because his combination of Tools and Jump make him damn near unstoppable in just about any situation.

>>1595124
> You're only proving my point. Option A is to grind through the game. Option B is to use your abilities effectively.
You don't need to use anything 'effectively' except for very few boss battles like the Magi Master, you don't need to be strategical about anything, you need to cast Fire3, Ice3, Thunder3 and Ultima if you are really bored, that's all you need.

And you don't even need to grind that much for the three parties to survive the tower, if i'm not wrong there are even relics that share exp between characters that are not in the party.

I understand what you mean, but i still stand with my opinion that after a certain point in the game you don't need 'strategy' anymore as you have too many resources for random enemies and even some bosses to pose any challenge. I had more trouble defeating that slug or whatever you fight in the beginning than i had defeating god Kefka on my first playthrough.

>>1597252
>there are even relics that share exp between characters that are not in the party

This does not sound right to me.

Sabin the best Final Fantasy character. His character is a total bro, his moves are disgustingly awesome, and you have do street fighter moves to pull them off.

>>1597280
You can't go wrong with a character who can suplex a fucking TRAIN.

>>1597272
To me neither.

>>1597252
>there are even relics that share exp between characters that are not in the party.
I wish this was true.

>>1597327
Of course it is. Have you even played the game?

>>1597334
Yeah, and the closest thing I found to that was the EXP egg.

>>1594972
Psycho Cyan

>>1594972
Entice

>>1594785
>Gau
>Last

Haha, oh wow.

Gau's Stray Cat rage can destroy damn near any boss in WoB and WoR.

Cat Scratch activates about 50% of the time (I believe, but it could be 33%) and it does 4x damage

I took down Kefka in one hit in Narshe.

Good luck doing it with anyone else at that point.

>>1594972
128MBlock

>>1598731
Thanks for posting this image, anon. I normally don't go for fan-art, but I really like this piece.

>>1596081
>Weird spaghetti Western / steampunk crossover setting that just does not make sense in any context.

Jesus christ some people on this board treat these games like they're serious works of fiction or something. It's a fucking video game, it doesn't have to make any sense at all (even though in this case the setting makes complete sense, and you're just dense as fuck)

It's my favorite in the FF series, but I will maintain the stance that Kefka was one of the shittiest villains in the series (At least until 13 came along, let's not speak about that) and not nearly as interesting as others try to make him out to be.

>>1599371
Well Kefka is my favorite villain in the series because he genuinely motivated me to want to kick his ass. Especially that scene where the party brings the Espers back to Thamasa to make peace the with the empire and everybody's happy and thinks everything is going to be okay and Kefka comes out of fucking nowhere and starts murdering fucking everybody I was just like "WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING YOU FUCKING ASSHOLE?!"

It's a stark contrast to the whole "oh, is that the guy whose ass I'm supposed to kick? Well I guess I need something to do after I'm done raising these chocobos and delivering these letters" type of villain so prevalent in other FF games.

>>1599307
>FUCK YOU! WHY IS YOUR OPINION DIFFERENT FROM MINE?!

Thank you for a well thought out, considerate and articulate argument. That was so compelling that I think I'll jump on the fanboy bandwagon right now.

>>1596081
>- Weird spaghetti Western / steampunk crossover setting that just does not make sense in any context.
>what is the 19th century

Kefka is probably the worst character in the whole franchise. Nothing he does makes any sense whatsoever. Sometimes I thought that he was a gag character or something (like the tree guy from FFV), but ultimately I don't think he was meant as any kind of joke, he was just THAT badly conceived. Even Sephiroth had more substance to him than this crap.

The fact that FF fans consider him a great villain shows just how low a standard they have in terms of characterization.

FFVI was by no means bad, it had a lot of interesting, even SaGa-like elements to it, although it was hideously, obviously, offensively linear like most Final Fantasy games. But it's villain was simply terrible and practically ruined the whole experience.

>>1595935
I don't know a single person you've mentioned, but you really should train yourself to be a more attentive listener. They don't make three mistakes, they constantly, consistently miss the keys. They fuck up every single passage and don't work as an ensemble at all.

For FFVI people who want bugfixes past the GBA version, check out this compliation of just about every bugfix ever: https://sites.google.com/site/shadedmagus/home/projects/ff6-improvement

>>1599432
Yeah, the game wasn't so much a marriage between western and steampunk as it was simply inspired by western films during the steam engine revolution.

And yes, the western influence so much deeper than just the Leone-style spaghetti western music. It's especially prevalent in the pubs and the way the bartenders and prostitutes are dressed.

Then there's Shadow. His theme song isn't so out of place when you consider his past as Clyde:
* Barum is known in Japan as Biri, which is also Japan's name for Billy the Kid.
* Barum/Biri and Clyde is a probable reference to Bonnie and Clyde.
* Barum and Clyde are train robbers, a classic western archetype.
* Clyde's getup and Shadow's personality resemble that of The Man with No Name (pic related).

It's also worth noting that The Man with No Name was inspired by the ronin Sanjuro in the Japanese film Yojimbo. There's an enemy in the final dungeon called Yojimbo (Retainer in the SNES version) who is a ninja/assassin type character just like Shadow. So it appears that Clyde/Shadow is a mashup between two cultures interpretation of the same classic character, as well as other American Western and feudal Japanese archetypes, which is pretty cool.

>>1599475
Do over a hundred of these really exist? I've only ever seen a tally for bugfix mods that high on PC WRPGs like Black Isle's stuff.

>>1599473
>constantly, consistently miss the keys
No they don't. They're not meant to be playing in unison. They're meant to be playing in harmony, which they do. They make a few mistakes, sure, but certainly not
>>constantly, consistently

>>1599536
>yojimbo
>retainer
Why not just name it "bodyguard" or something like that? That's what it means, IIRC.

>>1599601
I don't think I ever heard the word retainer in the sense that Cyan uses it, but I think it's an archaic word for servant.

I've heard that yojimbo means bodyguard, but that's not the role Sanjuro plays in the movie. He's more like a hired hand who splits his time between two clans and ultimately pits them against each other.

VI has an ensemble cast of heroes. They have many stories to follow, all of which converge on the atrocities committed by the Empire and Kefka.

As the Empire's greatest mistake and the embodiment of its cruelty, shortsightedness, and greed, Kefka is the natural lightning rod to draw things together. Kefka himself, I feel, was never meant to be a compelling character as an individual. He is a person who has been broken by someone else's desire for power, regardless of the human cost. You aren't supposed to hate Kefka as a person but as the culmination of authoritarian indifference to suffering. If he hadn't been broken so badly, he could have just as easily been one of the game's heroes alongside Terra and Celes.

We forget that nihilism was once a valid philosophical movement, particularly following the industrial and scientific revolutions of the late 19th century. These led to a decline of traditional religious morality. It inspired Kafka, for whom Kefka is named. Considering that the game takes place in a world ravaged by the loss of magic (religion) and replaced by machinery, I don't think I'm grasping at straws here. Kefka is meant to be less of a fully-realized character and more of a negative space that gives context to the characters around him. Kefka's not supposed to be deep. The inhumanity that created him and the humanity that oppose him are.

If Kefka is supposed to be anything, he is supposed to be morbidly fascinating. Friedrich Nietzsche saw nihilism as a necessary step toward moving beyond traditional morality, a sort of rebellious phase in which we work out our aggression toward the comforting lies of religion and the brutal reality of science until we come out as stronger, fully-realized people capable of exercising non-dogmatic morality. Kefka is the mid-way point between science and magic. He must be destroyed, and what we find when we do so is our humanity. And what happens when Kefka is destroyed? Terra is left alive, but purely human.

>>1599601
>>1599621
Not just a servant, a trusted and sworn servant. He's basically the king's right-hand man.

>>1599621
I think the choice of the word 'retainer' was accurate but difficult for most common-speakers of English. A retainer is a fee paid to hire someone, like an assassin or a lawyer, for that someone to perform a skilled job. A person who is retained can also be called a 'retainer.' The term 'yojimbo' refers to 'retainer' in the sense of the person, not the fee. 'Bodyguard' would be a decent sub-in. Or 'hired hand,' as you used.

>>1599635

Why did Gestahl ever let Kefka have an ounce of power after he came out broken after the magitek infusion?

What to do when you have a batshit cackling mad result of an experiment gone wrong with superhuman powers: dispose of him, imprison him or at least make him quietly live out the rest of his life as a crazy cat man in some distant village under the watch of a few battalions of magitek armor

What NOT to do when you have a batshit cackling mad result of an experiment gone wrong with superhuman powers: give him one of the prime seats of power in an absolute military autocracy, with freedom to do as he pleases including burning dozens of your own soldiers alive for amusement

Gestahl couldn't run a tap let alone an empire

>>1599672
Kinda the point. He was blinded with his own thirst for power. Kefka was a tool for getting power.

Don't forget that when we first see Kefka he isn't really more powerful than being able to cast a few low-level spells. He relies on toadies to dust his boots and has to resort to poison, not phenomenal cosmic power, to kill an entire city.

He's nutty, but he's really not that big of a threat until he nabs the power of the Warring Triad.

Like I said, he's not meant to be a great character. Just a great plot device. A living, breathing vessel for nihilism in the face of the brutality of the industrialized world.

>>1599672
He probably felt the same about Kefka as he did about Celes, which was "it's your birthright to rule beside me." He told her that even after she fought against him. My guess is that he loved Kefka and Celes like his own children and was willing to look past their indiscretions.

>>1599672
Kefka was a maniac but he got shit done most of the time.

>Having to grind in IV

What you faggots have never assaulted Kefkas tower with just Celes, Setzer and Edgar?

>>1599672

Because he got results!

>>1599695
>. My guess is that he loved Kefka and Celes like his own children and was willing to look past their indiscretions.

wow no. He thought they were fucking assholes, the only thing Gestahl cared about was power

>>1600983
>having to grind in FF

>>1599684
>He's nutty, but he's really not that big of a threat until he nabs the power of the Warring Triad.

Nah hes powerful as fuck before that. Remember when the Espers attacked him? He absorbed all their magic and fucked them all up easily.

>>1600983
>What you faggots have never assaulted Kefkas tower with just Celes, Setzer and Edgar?

yeah, after I set the controller to "Memory", set Banon to casting "Heal", set the raft to loop around, weighted down the "A" button and ZSNES "~" speedup button, and then left it all day while I went to classes.

too bad Locke missed out and was comparatively shit for the rest of the game.

>in b4 missing out on Esper level bonuses
like you fucking need them when you're level 99

>>1601000
beatagamebutton.avi

>>1594785
>Relm and Gau rated that low
top lel

i guess i am just not hipster or nostalgic enough to like this game better than FF7. FF6 is the best 16-bit FF, but FF7 just did everything better (there were a lot of similarities, with the pseudo-steampunk world, tongue in cheek humorous cast of characters, "equippable" magic, etc).

>>1601123
I have the same opinion. Esper system was really bad for FF6. In FF7 my party has at least some specialization because you just can't pump everyone with materias (because of lack of slots) while in FF6 you are able to teach everyone every useful spell, so everyone is doing the same because most of the time it's much better to make them cast spells than their own special abilities.
Though to be honest I liked magitech of FF6 better than cyberpunk of FF7.

>>1601178
Is that actually possible without grinding?
From what I remember the learning rates on the best spells are slow enough that you probably won't get more than a handful of people to learn them.

>>1601182
Correct. You can grind your tits off to teach every character ('cept Umaro) every spell or you can play and enjoy le game.
While I've never heard the argument that FF7 is superior because it limits the characters, the fact that every character could cast every spell was something I detested about FFVI though it is nonetheless my favourite of the FFs. I gretly dislike FF7 because any character can steal. Any character can summon. Any character can do any of a number of various skills. It's a bit poo-like to me.
I'd like an FFVI where the character's classes are a bit better fleshed out and have five menu options (as in iV) rather than four. I'd give the characters:
Attack
Special Skill (Slot, Dance, Morph, etc)
Special Skill 2 (Magic etc)
Esper
Item

Where Esper-taught magic is lost once the esper is de-equipped, like personae in the Persona series and the only characters that can learn and use magic permanently are those who have it natively (Terra, Strago and Relm). I'd give Celes nerfed magical ability. Greater than the Esper-users but lesser the native users.

I played a patch of the game that was similar to this, but less fleshed out.

>>1601182
There are a lot of monsters that give you 3 or more magic points so with enough esper switching it's possible. I was able to get everyone in Kefka's tower to have cure2 (and casting cure 2 is often better than using whatever special ability most characters have) and at least one useful combat spell (ultima, flare or elemental 3), I didn't grind at all but I got lost in some dungeons.

>>1601193
Wouldn't it be better to give characters with esper ability to cast spells without learning but give magic users ability to learn esper spless? Game would get a bit grindy with that system.

>>1601215
That's exactly what I was trying to get across. We're on the same page. Sorry if I explained myself poorly. Still, each character would have to individually level up the Esper in order to use it to its full potential, a slight deviation from the Persona system where any persona leveled up by any character can then be used at full power by any other character.
But again, like Persona, once the Esper is de-equipped, the spells would no longer be in the Esper menu. When re-equipped, they'd be back again.
Good idea?

>>1601227
Yeah, that's the best combination.

>Use Setzer in my party at all times and spam Slot on the off chance of getting 777
>Get to Kefka without seeing it once
>First turn of the battle
>777
I'll never know what it's like to do that battle legitimately, and I'm okay with that

>>1600983

I dare you to try a no-grind run of FFVI.

If you even get to the last form of Kefka I would be surprised. Kefka's tower is incredibly hard without grinding.

>>1601242
The battle itself is great. You missed out on a great final boss theme. That being said, 777 only works on Kefka's final form, as the earlier ones are immune.

>>1601257
Define grinding, because exp/magic points from encounters in dungeons were more than enough if you are not avoiding or escaping from battles and do every sidequest.

>>1601273

No running from battles, get every character in WoR, assault Kefka.

I would say sidequests are reasonable, but good luck killing magimaster or even getting to him without abusing moogle charm.

>>1601265
Yeah I meant it was his final form. And Dancing Mad is a great song.

>>1601292
Magimaster, was that the dude on top of that tower who spammed Ultima on you? If I remember correctly I gave the whole party Reflect and tore him a new asshole.

>>1601292
So if not running from battles is considered grinding then what would no-grinding playthrough require? Getting moogle charm asap and not leaving without it? Because if yes, then yeah Kefka would be hard to beat.

>>1601309

You misinterpreted me.

Not running from battles is one of the parameters I follow on a no-grind run. In other words, when on a no-grind, I fight with anything that confronts me.

It is not impossible, but certainly difficult if you don't manage your espers correctly. I also choose not to abuse vanish/doom.

>>1601308

Giving your whole party reflect is an easy way to never beat magimaster.

He casts ultima on death, but prior to that he switches his immunities on every hit and uses high level magic to kill you.

Equipment is very important to beat him as his spells will straight up 1-shot you on a no-grind run, and if you reflect everyone he will heal himself with his own magic.

>>1601343
Doesn't Ultima ignore reflect?

>>1601351
I don't think so. Either way as long as one person survives it (Sabin should probably be able to, pretty sure Tera and Celes can survive it too) you win.

>>1601358
I finished the game yesterday and Ultime ignore reflect, as well as Meteorite.

>>1601361
Huh, yeah I guess Sabin just tanked the final Ultima and survived then, he already had 9999 HP at that point on my game.

>>1601351

Yeah it does. Beating MMaster in a no-grind pretty much requires you to do locke's quest early on, and get phoenix. Then get the other characters with the esper equipped so you learn Life 3 prior to running the tower.

Cast bserk on him and scan his weakness, abuse that till he dies.

>>1601370
You can also just drain his mana for 30 minutes.

>>1601370
If i remember correctly he switches his immunity once you scan him.

He will switch his immunity on everything you do to him, physical, magical or status.

>>1601370
alternatively just get max mblock, berserk him, and cast osmose/rasp until he dies (which also prevents ultima from triggering)

>>1601395
>max mblock
You're not even playing the game anymore if you do that.

I'm >>1601391
Honestly, i think if you care enough about the game and want to take some challenge out of it you should go for the traditional way and never abuse max mblock, vanish/doom and the rest of glitches and just play the game as if you never knew about any of this.

If you don't care and just wanna finish the game then have your way.

I, for one, cringe whenever i see someone using "megaelixir" and the likes.

>>1601409
>You're not even playing the game anymore if you do that.
Even in fixed versions it's possible to reach max evade, which has the same effect in this situation.
In any case, the dungeon and the boss are both just big gimmicks, so why not use a gimmick to beat it?

If you have some kind of overwhelming aversion to that, there's still things like the Palidor strategy, or just taking his hits and healing through them while casting rasp/osmose, or whatever. Relying on Life3 is the brute force method.

>>1601395
Nope, he always casts Ultima when he dies. It's a flagged behaviour, impossible to avoid.

You always can berserk him, then Flare his ass out while Umaro and Gogo hit him for 50,000 HP worh of damage, and then summon Palidor to Jump the fuck away from his Ultima.

>>1601446
>Nope, he always casts Ultima when he dies.
If you MP kill him he'll try to cast it, and fail.

>>1601391

When bserked he will not switch immunity.

Just putting this out there, but I found FFVI more enjoyable when I played a low level natural magic game. Basically, you avoid all possible encounters and never use espers or equip weapons/armor which teach magic.

That way, the game is less absurdly easy and the characters are actually distinguishable since they don't all have magic.

Also, you can beat the game with just level 6 celes, edgar, and setzer. But that's not very fun and you might need to abuse Joker Doom against the Guardian (or someone else? It's been a long time).

Replay the game with a hard mod or never use magicite, that's a fun way.

Some hard type mods are quite nice, get rid of some over powered things and just generally make the game more challenging and varied.

>people are talking about music in this thread without mentioning Balance & Ruin

http://youtu.be/rmoLL9TMmC4

>>1601000
Why the fuck would you even do this playing on on an emulator when you can just use a cheat?

>>1595327
>>1595306
You don't "run" into it though, you have to check the plant painting in the first room before clearing the dungeon to fight it.

>>1594784
in other words, everything Terra can do, minus a transformation that doubles her stats?

>>1601000
>too bad Locke missed out and was comparatively shit for the rest of the game.
Eh? Your levels should have been re-averaged after the Floating Continent.

>>1601308
That's nice, because Ultima ignores reflect. Also he only uses it as a counter when you kill him, unless you drain all his MP with osmose (he dies from MP depletion)

>>1602889
I think he didn't even get locke back

>>1595742
I'd say it is. I've always thought of VI as my favorite but after replaying the entire series (GBA versions for I-VI) I'd say it's in my top three. It's a lot of fun to play with its job system and customization options and the characters are all pretty likable. It not taking itself seriously is another huge plus.

>>1595571
>huge buildup to Kefka
>final movement of Dancing Mad comes on
I couldn't stop laughing.

>>1595918
If only someone could hack in the iOS portraits into the GBA version.

>>1595214
Abilities in general could've used expansion. Blitz and tools provided an array of moves, swordtch did too but wasn't worth using after time went on, steal and morph are fairly one-dimensional. Runic's similar, but it can fundamentally change how some fights go, so I give it a pass.

>>1599635
That's a pretty good interpretation, certainly fits with the stylistic time period FFVI looks like it's in.

>>1595214
>tfw OCD insists that you steal from every enemy you encounter

>>1603047
If I record correctly, can't you also use Runic to absorb Magi Master's Ultima?

>>1603172
I believe so, but it's been about 10 years since I fought him. For some reason, I always get up to when the empire's making peace with the returners and stop playing, I think it's because I can't stand not getting a perfect on the banquet.

>>1603196
Aren't all commands but "magic" dummied out in the tower?

>>1603196
I know that feel. Last time I played was the gba version, which you can run with B + sprint shoes, making it nearly impossible to not talk to all the soldiers in time

>>1603208
I think it only changed fight with magic, but I could be wrong.

>>1603172
believe me ive tried you cant.

>>1603172
You cannot. "Ultimate" is like Chrono Trigger's "Luminaire", the one bullshit spell that completely breaks the game.

>>1601446
>playing FF6 on an emulator
>get to the top of the Magic Tower
>Get surrounded by the cultist
>Aw, shit is about to go down, better save state
>Get my shit kicked my Magic Master
>Reload save state
>Surrounded by cultist
>Oh shit, stuck
>Refight
>Spam all kinds of magic looking for a nout
>Bersk him
>Fight is now easy mode
>Ultima on death
>Wipes out team
>oh shit, stuck
>Reload
>What can I possibly do
>Character has Life3
>Thank god

Too young to have multiple savestates, would have been game over otherwise.

Do I recall correctly that you cannot warp off the top of the tower, or was I being extra dumb that day?

>>1601914
>avoid all possible encounters
>rpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqWIXFLeeiI

>>1601914
>>1601936
>no magicite
>see pic

>>1603314
Getting a game over in FFVI just sends you back to the last save you made, but doesn't take away the EXP you gained. So, assuming you actually made a hard save nearby, it wouldn't be that bad.

>>1603314
yeah you can't warp out of the tower, specifically for that reason

>>1603320
seriously dude, a low level game is so much more interesting for most RPGs
not only do you have to actually plan out how you use your resources, but you get to skip all of the trash encounters too

>>1603314
>savestatescumming
>needing to savestate scum in such an easy game

>>1603324
>savestates
>why would I ever hard save?

I sure was fucked. I just remember Celes being the only one with Life 3, and Umaro bossing around.

And muting the dragon in the tower and replenishing my MP by Rasping the shit out of him.

>>1603331
Even when using savestates, I make hard saves, too. Back up your backups, and whatnot. Plus, saving the game in FFVI just feels good.

I stopped using emulator saves because I savescummed my way through opera scene, then forgot about it and then I accidentally hit the load button while fighting with the Air Force. Lost my hard save and had to do everything since the opera again.

>>1603330
Savestating in FF games is necessary to get rare steals.

fuck re-fighting a boss 255 times to get a lucky steal.

>>1604257
Or you can just steal multiple times.

This Humor made almost made me cry, its like your best friend made a video game...ya know..

>>1604267
>Or you can just steal multiple times.

Rare steals have something like 10/255 chances, and sometimes enemies have normal AND rare steals, and if you can only steal one of them. If you end up stealing the common item, you have to reset or cast a return spell (if available).

That is without factoring in the fact that the enemy is, you know, fighting back during the entire time. And no, you cannot make your party invincible to bosses every time, in particular early game.

This is made worse if the boss follows a cutscene/minigame/dungeon without having a save point before it. You'd have to replay all the way up to the boss just for another 10/255 chance at stealing.

so yeah, fuck that.

Imagining Kefka as a hero in an alternate timeline brings a tear to my eye.

You could have been the greatest, greater than all others put together.

>>1595742
It's not. The plot and characters are bleh and the job system gets far more praise than it deserves. On top of that it seems to look worse than IV somehow (despite the graphics being technically superior) and the music and sound is underwhelming compared to the other two SNES FFs.

Just my opinions, of course. It does have the second-best job system implementation in a FF game, though, so if job systems get you wet then have at it.

>>1603320

But it is fun.

Elemental weapons are more useful/interesting.

Terra and celes are more interesting because they use natural magic.

Shadow has important skeens to throw.

The item magicite is interesting and useful now.

Pretty much everone is more unique and interesting.

>>1604801
It also makes characters with poor special abilities even less useful.

Also Shadow's skeans are useful for most of the game even when using magicite. The damage ones do nearly as much damage as the level 3 elemental spells and take no MP. They also are unblockable and never miss, which isn't hugely important, but it's something.

>>1594614
>IN my opinion
Nah, it's a fact. :)

>>1595742
FFV is a fun game, partially because of the Job system and MOSTLY because of it's humour sense.
Final Fantasy 5 is probably the only game of the entire franchise that doesn't take itself seriously and simply goes around using clichés but twisting them up to make them fun.

It even breaks the 4th wall to have some fun with the player as well.

>>1595742

The only real complaint I have about
FFV is the complete absurdity of the story.
But then I also like that because it does away with a lot of the melodrama and let's you get into adventuring.
Aside from that it's got a fun job system and some great music in places. The battle theme is probably my favourite.

>>1606251
>FFV is the complete absurdity of the story.

Haven't played FFV yet, but if I cared about shit like that I'd never touch an FF game in the first place.

>>1604348
I think Square missed a huge opportunity. Kefka could have been an ally to the protagonists, seeking some kind of meaning and renewal by opposing the Empire that broke his mind.

Then you get to the Floating Continent, and you're forced to leave Kefka behind as he makes a misguided attempt to be the Big Damned Hero.

And he hates you for it.

Why.

Why did you leave me behind?

We could have stopped this.

I was wrong. About Gestahl. About you. About myself.

Self... friends... enemies. Where do these things come from? Where do they go? Such meaningless things. These things... I am going to DESTROY!

One thing I never quite understood about this game:

What's up with the magic goats that heal status ailments?

>>1606251
It doesn't take itself all too seriously at times (while still having more than enough solemn moments and drama), likes to present itself as a shonen anime about friendship and has more jokes than your average FF, but to call its plot a complete absurdity is quite a stretch. More lighthearted =/= absurd, and "FFV has a bad story" is an epin mene proliferated by people who think that darkness dwelling within everyone's souls as they cut their wrists and dye their hair black = good story.

>>1607683
it's a tapir

It was a fun game. I'd try my best to do a low level run until I got my espers so I could level up everyone's speed, vigor, etc., since it doesn't automatically level with you. Arena was fun, just had to save a lot to ensure I don't lose anything before going though.

>>1607718
What makes them appear?

They seem to come along at complete random.

>>1606251
FFV had a story?

Well since this thread is here I may as well ask.

Will FF VI be difficult to play if I don't have a shitload of Kanji memorized? I just finished the Famicom version of FF I, it wasn't too hard. Sure I had to look several things up almost every time I spoke to someone but it wasn't too bad, I finished it in under a week. I think I'll try FF IV next (I'm hoping I can handle all of that text) and after that I'll move onto FF VI.

Not topic related but what about Chrono Trigger? Does it use a lot of Kanji or a small-medium amount? The only reason I'm concerned is because it'll take a lot longer to look up words if I don't even know how to read them.

>>1607729
When someone (or a monster) has been asleep for a certain amount of time, the tapir will appear, and wake them up. It normally takes a little over 30 seconds, but Slow and Haste also affect it.

In Japanese lore, tapirs are said to eat dreams, which is why they cure Sleep.

>>1607683
>>1607718
>>1608384

Shit man, I had no idea these creatures existed and I've played this game multiple times. I've never seen them or Desperation Moves (though I've at least heard of Desperation Moves before).

>>1608307
>>Will FF VI be difficult to play if I don't have a shitload of Kanji memorized?
That depends on whether or not you've modded your famicom to play super nintendo games.

>>1608396
>I've never seen them or Desperation Moves (though I've at least heard of Desperation Moves before).
I saw a desperation move once.

I was fighting Atma Weapon and I only had Celes left, at low health at that. I thought I was totally boned, but then she jumped forward and swung her sword around wildly around, and lo and behold, it killed him.