/vr/ - Retro Games

it's shit

heard that it could be good if the hints weren't all awfully translated and in some cases, downright wrong. probably enjoyable with the assistance of a guide?

I guess this board alternates between volatile threads on Zelda II and CVII. Anyway, I like it, I've defended it the numerous times it comes up. New players should play with the patch from the guy who did the Finnish translation.

The first metroidvania.

A lot of the writing is really confusing though. I'm all for mysterious clues but these ones are inadequate.

>>1588117
I had more fun with it than first game. I also felt that is also better than its predecessor
Confusing sometimes though

Apart from many of clues in the game being outright lies and/or so poorly translated you'll NEVER be able to figure out to crouch while having the crystals equipped in certain places by yourself it's a good game. If you haven't played it before definitely go with the patch here:
http://bisqwit.iki.fi/cv2fin/

okay seems like the stance on it is relatively positive other than the issues i already kinda knew about. i'll grab that patch at some point and give it a look. i was actually considering buying it on the wii u VC so it's good to know that it's pretty unplayable without the patch.

>>1588117
If you find an online version of the game booklet and an online map from NP, it should be a lot less cryptic. I remember that people lie, as people say, but it should be fairly obvious after a while who is full of crap.

Seriously though, find the manual and read it. It has a lot of important details about Dracula's parts and stuff.

>>1588191
if i remember correctly, wii u vc comes with an eManual? or maybe that's just the 3DS vc? not 100% sure.

Better than the FDS release.

>but you can save in the FDS release!
Yeah, and getting knocked back into town right when you leave means you have to reset the disk three fucking times. Every time it happened.

FDS release is literally worse than Hitler.

it's not like saving is a big deal anyway because both 3DS and Wii U virtual console titles just save state when you close the software and load state when you open it again.

Not a fan of the game because it's way too easy. The only difficulty is figuring what to do sometimes.

>>1588134

>The first metroidvania.

Original Metroid came before.

>>1588269
Metroid isn't a Metroidvania, it's a Metroid.

>>1588117
recently got it on 3DS, really really like this game.
Love how the game trolls you with false clues in the villages and dead-ends/fake walls and floors in the castles.
Worst flaw is that it's way too easy: when you die you resume on the same spot of the same screen, even after using a continue.

I'd say try not using a guide op, unless you're really stuck

I can appreciate that Konami might have wanted to take the series in a different direction with Simon's Quest, but the world felt way too dead. The mansions were barely populated, and usually it was the same set of enemies throughout the entire game. The palette was bland and gray, and there was little to no variation when you stepped into a new area. The RPG mechanics feel kind of pointless because they're just a footnote. The highest level Simon can reach is 6. I mean, what's the point? Why not just give Simon life upgrades periodically throughout the game instead of making the player grind for experience?

I think CV2 could have been a lot better if Konami took more time to polish it. The environments should have been given more detail, especially to differentiate one area from another. There should have been a broader selection of enemies, and more enemies within the mansions themselves. The mansions should have been at least slightly longer with less linear paths. The RPG mechanics should have been expanded upon so Simon could reach higher levels, and level ups would do more than just increase Simon's maximum life.

>>1588134
Please stop this retroactive labeling shit, Simon's Quest barely plays like Metroid at all. Not in the way that Symphony of the Night does.

>>1588117

it's great. one of my favorite games on the nes. i love the graphics and the music and the overall mood. while the other nes castlevanias are better in many ways, none of them sucked me in like this one.

>>1588145
>many of clues in the game being outright lies

none of the 13 clues are lies. the rumors you hear from people are mostly wrong.

I love it. I don't know why people get so down on it.

>>1588148

It's not unplayable without the patch. If 8 year old me could beat it with only an issue of Nintendo Power you can probably figure it out with the entirety of the internet at your disposal.

It's in my top-10 NES games, along with Zelda II and Faxanadu. Also I like the cryptic hints and air of mystery of the original. The translation patch doesn't cut it for me.

>>1588195
The cartridge version also improved on the soundtrack. The FDS version sounds very awkward for some reason.

FDS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94pjsxP7CgI

NES:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2oZtvjg5oA

Look familiar?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ravenloft_%28module%29

>>1588298
you fucking idiot the world felt dead because of dracula's curse, do you even know what's going on in the game you retarded bastard?

>>1588750
I don't know what that has to do with his post...

>>1588134
this.

Metroid games have no vania, as Samus has no whip.
Therefore the only Metroidvania games are the Castlevania RPGs.

>>1588763
the world was sparsely populated for a reason, they are trying to portray a certain setting.you know? like one where a curse of a vampire is causing the people of the land to die...its laughable how anyone could think more npcs would be an improvement.

>>1588824
Read beyond the first sentence of his post. He goes on to explain why he thinks the game was "dead" and it's not entirely the reason he's arguing. He also talks about the lack of enemy variety in the mansions and some other things.

>>1588820

castlevania games have no metroid.

>>1588298
They were experimenting, so they probably didn't have a clear idea of what they were going for; and there most likely were some time constraints too, I doubt the lack of enemies in the last castle, and of bosses in the overall game were a choice

>>1588820
You're definition's right, too bad that term is so often misused

>>1588832
which is a stupid point considering the game has way more enemy types than the first game.

>>1588838
They kind of do. The Metroid games didn't invent the "pick up weapons/powerups to gain access to new areas" trope, but they did popularise it for 2D platformers. Games like SotN use the same gameplay element.

Generally, I just think the term is retarded, though. Castlevania and Metroid were made around the same time, and were completely different games! The more recent games have some similarities, but they also do to lots of other games at the times they were made... it's a stupid grouping.

>>1588868
I think he means that they have no "metroid", as in no signature overpowered enemy that's immediately recognizable for the franchise.

>>1588923
>who is dracula

>>1589043
>tfw baby Dracula saved me from Mother Brain

Dracula doesn't really compare to the metroids in that way.

>>1588923
maybe you could argue Medusa Head

>>1588193
if any version does have a manual, it'll be the WiiU version

>>1588117

I love it.

People look at it the wrong way. They usually play the later more refined exploration action games and then compare it to Simon's Quest. They're not looking at it at the time, where a game like Simon's Quest is radical and new. It completely breaks new ground.

Most of the issues with the game are localizations. You can get a new translation here:

http://bisqwit.iki.fi/cv2fin/
http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1032/

>>1589079
if the issue is that Castlevania has no enemies that are immediately recognizable, and Dracula doesn't count, then you have 3 choices
-Medusa Heads
-The Axe Knights
-The Bone-Throwing Skeletons

>>1590184
What about Fleamen?

The only reason people hate it is because of the AVGN.

>>1590210
I guuuueeeeeesssss

>>1590217
even in the "making of AVGN" videos he says that the Castlevania II review was a big old joke and that he liked the game decently well

Moral of the story: E-celebrities are people, not idols

>>1590184
S-sahagin?

>>1590312
The bird dude with the spear?
Naahh, he's always a boss

A contender would also be the fishmen I guess
IMO Axe knights, medusa heads, and skelemans throwing bones are the ones you run into immediately and in every game

>>1589043
Not a parasitic alien unless Lords of Shadow made him one.

>ITT: "I love being told lies and having no idea what to do!"

How are you supposed to figure out what to do with the crystals, and where, without being told by some third party?

>>1590217
There are a lot of people on this board who are old enough to have played it on release who think it's shit, without someone coming in in the mid-2000s to inform us of just how shitty it is.

See, we know. Because we played it back then, and we were sorely disappointed with it. Why do you think AVGN even reviewed it, because it had some sort of sterling reputation up until then?

>>1590350
No, he's right, the majority of people talking about it today have picked the sentiment up from the Nintendo Nerd videos. There may be some people who actually played it and didn't like it, but those are in the minority.

Meanwhile, the opinion that it's a terrible game is devoid of value. The game is not nearly as perfect as 1 or nearly as expansive as 3, but by no means is it bad, and by no means whatsoever is it any more cryptic than, say, the original Zelda, or any other major action/adventure of it's time.

>>1590345
>How are you supposed to figure out what to do with the crystals, and where, without being told by some third party?

>>1590345

The white and blue crystal hints are pretty straightforward, and the manual drops a hint in perfect English too. The hint about deborah cliff is cryptic, but if our childhood minds could deduce what to do based on our previous experience with the blue and white crystals, then you should be able to just as well.

The only way to get Simon's head anywhere near the cliff is to crouch in front of it, since there's nothing overhead to hit mario-style, and we recalled what the blue cyrstal did earlier in the game...

Equipping specific body parts to show the ferryman was the only other major stumbling block to getting through the game and it was easier to figure out than the red crystal.

>>1590358
>and by no means whatsoever is it any more cryptic than, say, the original Zelda
This.
There were no signs of which wall yo could break or which bushes you could burn, you had to test them with limited supply of bomb and a candle that (at first) could only burn one bush per screen at a time... People always bring up the crystals in CVII, but what about the flute in Zelda?

>>1590368
There isn't any valid in-game clue for the kneeling at Deborah's cliff with red crystal. The in-game clue that's supposedly to hint about it says HIT DEBORAH CLIFF WITH YOUR HEAD TO MAKE A HOLE that's wrong and gives no clue about how to proceed in the game. I'll never understand how they managed to translate it like that...

>>1590382

You'd be surprised what children could come up with if you just aimed them in the general direction of the goal.

Back before they expected to be spoonfed answers, at least.

>>1590386
I don't know, I did manage to beat Legend of Zelda, Metroid, Shadowgate and some other games that supposedly are unbeatable without a guide on my own back in the day but I actually had to call the Nintendo Club/Nintendo Hotline/whateveritwascalledbackthen about how to proceed in Simon's Quest. I did figure out how to use the blue crystal and the correct item to show to the ferryman on my own through.

BTW I hate how modern games hold your hand though the entire game and spoonfed the answers to you and generally make fun of people who say things like LoZ is impossible to beat without a guide.

Just read it. this is my story, all truth.

>seven years old, first grade, November 23rd 1990
>going to my friends house down the road and across the street.
>guy always speeding back and forth in his shitty car
>runs my ass over as I'm trying to cross, spiral fracture of the femur bone
>he drives off.
>I lay on the asphalt in agony, crying for what was apparently nine minutes
>finally somebody shows, amber lamps called
>my clothes are all cut off in front of my friends, I'm taken to the hospital, poked, prodeed, laid naked on a table still screaming, x-rayed
>eventually end up in traction, have a busted head and some bad cuts from the vehicle as well
>mom works, dad works, hardly ever anybody to come visit, random family sometimes stays until I fall asleep then they leave
>In all the way until Dec. 29th, through Christmas
>One saving grace, amidst all this
>a lone nintendo, on one of those small tv carts with a tiny color TV. No games but mario brothers.
>a friend brings in his copy of Simon's Quest.
>Play it every day I'm in the hospital, only an hour at a time since they take the TV after that.
>never beat it
>fast forward to years later
>2003, I'm 20, live alone. I have a nintendo emulator and see that game
>play it.
>play for an entire day, then another, beat it, all secrets, completely wreck on it
>after I beat it and kill dracula..I cry. Not for long, but, I cried for a minute.

No idea why, or where it came from, but holy shit..this game will forever be the shining light of happiness in that time of my life.

>>1590345

>>1590382

no, it's WAIT FOR A SOUL WITH A RED CRYSTAL ON DEBORAH CLIFF. could still be more clear, but i had no problem figuring it out based on how you had to kneel with the blue crystal earlier.

>>1590554
It's both. I don't remember what the whole headbutting was supposed to be a translation of, but both it and your message are in the game.

It was an original variant of the first game, not a masterpiece but enjoyable, with some cool features like the day/night cycle, that makes to feel the game like a little world, the real problem was only the translation, some years ago someone created a fanpatch with the proper english translation from the original japanese dialogues, and it's really a big different thing, for example the infamous "what a horrible night to have a curse" is, in fact, the totally different "and then descend a horrible night"

>>1590569

sure, but what i posted is the actual clue. the other one is just something you're told by a villager.

>>1590585
Ah, I see what you meant. I keep telling people that in this game, villagers mostly lie or say unrelated things. Books/notes hidden in breakable walls, however, never do.

It wouldn't have been so bad without the horrible translation. All the people lying to you? It was meant to be where if they said something like "I heard" or "There's a rumor" that they weren't really lying, but it was false. If there was a hint of doubt in what they were saying you weren't meant to trust them. That was the whole point.

Plus the original game came with a map. Yes, a fucking map. When it came out in America, they didn't include the map. The palette is really ugly and depressing, invisible blocks is bullshit, and there is WAY too much grinding. You can fix pretty much every problem in the game though if you apply every patch shown here labeled improvement:

http://www.romhacking.net/?page=hacks&genre=&platform=&game=710&category=&perpage=20&title=&author=&hacksearch=Go

Adds a map, improves the palette tremendously, removes the invisible blocks, re-translates the game, day-night transitions are ultrasmooth, heart values are doubled, it keeps track of all your hints for you, and you can save. Some of you may think this is a casual's way out. In that case you're the cancer killing this board.

>>1590819
I think that hack isn't as good as the american NES release. Also, I'm glad I played that version back in the day, instead of the jap one, if this hack is anything like it.

>>1590819
>The palette is really ugly and depressing,

It's part of what still appeals to me about this game. It's got a great atmosphere that always takes me in, every time I fire it up.

>invisible blocks is bullshit

It only takes one time to learn where they are. If you play any NES-era games, you're used to dealing with this kind of "bullshit". Bullshit would be if they changed randomly.

>Some of you may think this is a casual's way out. In that case you're the cancer killing this board.
Or maybe we're the cancer that's saving this board from living to the point where every retro game is too hard for people to play without countless modern enhancements and we'll pretend games that eight-year-olds finished when they came out are unfathomably hard for adults to deal with.

>>1590350
>Why do you think AVGN even reviewed it, because it had some sort of sterling reputation up until then?
While I won't claim that it was beloved when it came out (which I will, by the way, claim about Zelda II), I never heard anyone talk shit about it, despite playing it and discussing it regularly with many other retro gamers, until visiting my brother-in-law sometime in the mid-90s and talking to his son about games. We were talking Castlevania and he started talking shit about CV2; that's how I found out about AVGN. For a while, it seemed like every time someone held an opinion on a retro game I found shocking, it turned out to have come from AVGN.

>>1591202
>mid-90s
mid-2000s, I mean, of course.

>>1591192
>It's part of what still appeals to me about this game.

I bet you're the same person who complains about lack of color in modern games that try to be realistic and depressing with brown and bloom.

>>1588134
incorrect the first metroidvania is vampire killer on the MSX

>>1588567
>The translation patch doesn't cut it for me

Why not?

>>1588843
>You're definition's
>You are definition is

What am I reading?

>>1590525
Sucks they took your TV away. Back in the early '00s, I went to a children hospital and most rooms had a N64 with Super Mario 64

>>1590574
>some years ago

2013 is so far away?

>>1591209
Nah. I haven't played more than a handful of games outside the /vr/ era, and the last console I bought was the PSX.