/vr/ - Retro Games

Great game, but no.

LttP is probably top 3 games of all time

>>1562882
LA is way better.

>>1562924

Sorry, but the fact it's on a handheld diminishes it's greatness.

>>1562874

Apples and Oranges.

It's NOT a Zelda game.

Take away the name, and no one would think it's a Zelda game.

That being said it's my favorite. I find the 3D or top down Zelda dreadfully boring.

>>1563079
"Its" is the possessive of "it".
"It's" is a contraction of "it is".

>>1563094
>>1563079

Thinking about it, it kinda irks me lately to think that adding an apostrophe and s to a word makes it possessive, but not when it comes to the word "it". I bet there is a good reason for it, but oh, well, videogames board...

As to not derail the thread: Being a handheld does not diminish the value of a game, you nig romancer. It may have different technical details, but if they were able to handle the creator's idea of what the game should have been like, it's all good in da hood.

I myself fancy Oracle of Seasons over Link's Awakening, though.

>>1563094

Yes, I know. It's called a typo, faglord.

>>1563090
You're very confused... Zelda II is totally a Zelda game in the minds of all the kids in the 80's (myself included) and the gaming magazines of that time.
It's only now, decades later, that some Internet retrofags with strange logic think it's not a real Zelda game. I mean, wtf? I feel like I walked into bizarro world...

It's a subpar game even if it wasn't Zelda.

not really

>>1563090
It was the second Zelda game. As some have pointed out on the internet, there was therefore almost nothing to go by as far as what constituted a real Zelda game. The plot was Zelda, the enemies were Zelda enemies, the game had the theme of exploration and item collection, you helped to solve people's problems, and so on. As best I can recall it also introduced the concept of actual towns, Impa, magic, Shadow Link, more advanced swordplay, the concept of multiple Zeldas, and probably other things I am not thinking of.

It really isn't fair, for a lack of a better word, to say it isn't Zelda. Had OoT bombed are something and Zelda went back to overhead view for all or most future games, I guess you could turn around and call it not a real Zelda game due to a drastic shift in gameplay style that was not maintained in future releases.

>>1562874
Nah. Actually Battle of Olympus is even better.

It's not even the best Zelda on its own system.

>>1563727
True, the best Zelda game on NES is called Crystalis

>>1563090
>It's NOT a Zelda game.
Kid who found the Zelda series with OoT detected. I bet you also think pre-FFVII Final Fantasies aren't FF games or that Mario games that came out before Super Mario 64 aren't Mario games since they don't look and play like their more popular "genre defining" sequels?

>>1563807
Are you serious? Zelda II doesn't even compare to Zelda, Oracles, Awakening or LTTP in terms of quality or relevance to the series. Nevermind the 3D games.

>>1563830
Fuck the 3d games, they were all shit except Ocarina and small parts of Majora & Twilight.

>>1563830
>Are you serious? Zelda II doesn't even compare to Zelda, Oracles, Awakening or LTTP in terms of quality or relevance to the series
Oh my god, what a kid. Zelda 2 is incredibly high quality. Have you played it for more than 5 minutes?

I consider it equal to the other games you listed except Oracles. Zelda 2 is MUCH better than Oracles.

>>1563702
>trusting /v/'s taste
Yeah, not even once.

>>1563838
>Zelda 2 is incredibly high quality.
Even Miyamoto thinks it's one of the worst games he was involved with.

>>1563847
>Even Miyamoto thinks it's one of the worst games he was involved with.
Miyamoto has drunk way too much nu-Zelda fan kool-aid over the years, and started to believe their bullshit.

He doesn't even remember what made his own games good. That should be obvious to see by looking at any of his recent work.

>>1563853
Just face it, it's not well designed. It has many good ideas but at the end it's a mediocre game.

>>1563859
The response of gamers at the time it was released begs to differ.

>>1563862
you mean "man, this is shit but I got nothing better to do because I'm seven so I might as well play this"?

>>1563865
Yeah, all those adults would drive from state to state trying to find a copy of the game cause it was shit. And it stayed in the sales charts for years because it was shit.

>>1563869
Sure, anon.

>>1563865
>>1563869
Do either of you have a single fact to back up your claims?

>>1563847
[citation needed]

>>1563875
>Do either of you have a single fact to back up your claims?
If I can be fucked, I can scan old magazines to back up that Zelda 2 was highly regarded.

>>1563702
>faces of evil and wand of gameleon
absolute dogshit, why didn't they top the worst 2D Zelda list?
You can't really vote on things like this unless you've played all entries, which I doubt 95% of those voters actually have

>>1563797
>Not Faxanadu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HutD8ZXZucY

>>1563723
Battle of Olympus is more poorly balanced and grindy than Zelda II

>>1563882
magazines like nintendo power? sure
it's not like they are trying to sell the game or anything

>>1563887
Just look at where the votes came from.

I'm just going to say this about Zelda II: The Adventure of Link

Me and the other people who actually played it when it came out didn't complain about it being different from the first game as there obviously wasn't an established standardized formula to Zelda games at time. Also generally we liked it (sometimes for being different to the first game) and didn't complain about it being too hard like the N64 generation does as most games from that era weren't exactly easier, take games like Ghosts N’ Goblins, Legendary Wings, Mega Man 1, Ninja Gaiden and TMNT for an example.

tl;dr: I'm just going to assume anyone saying things like "Zelda II isn't a Zelda game" or "It's too hard" is a kid who found the Zelda series with Ocarina of Time and as a result don't know shit about video games. Go back to /v/ to whine about the latest Zelda game being a rehash of OoT /v/ while you are at it.

>>1563941
I think the modern "Zelda cycle" is simply proof that Zelda games just haven't been good for a long time, hence the dissatisfaction.

Back in the day people liked every (non CDi) Zelda game that came out, almost without exception. There weren't any epic divides in opinion, or revisionism taking place.

The last thoroughly good Zelda game was Ocarina of Time. Majora's Mask has its brilliant moments, but it's also inconsistent (there's a lot of parts which are really not fun at all).

>>1563941
Zelda 2 was my first Zelda game. I got it when it was still pretty new. I didn't play the first game for years afterwards and was kind of off put at first by the fact that it wasn't a sidescroller. I knew that it wasn't, but hadn't played it yet and it seemed weird.

I only recently beat Zelda 2. It's frustrating but not impossible. I just never managed to finish it before. And I think I like it a bit better than the first one.

>>1563946
I honestly believe Nintendo should stop making Zelda games now that even the people who "like" the series are complaining every new game simply to be a rehash of the older games. Maybe they should finally release a new game to their OTHER action-adventure serie?

>>1562874
Every other Zelda with sidescrolling sections did it better. Mainly because Link didn't fucking use a shitty butter knife as his weapon of choice.

>>1563889
That game was hard as nails. Prefered Battle of Olympus even though it was torture on the ears.

>>1563890
Eh? I finished that game and don't remember grinding.

It's an ambitious experiment, and it's certainly not the worst Zelda game I've ever played. (That award goes to Wind Waker because I hated the sailing so Goddamned much it made me ragequit. But that's a rant for another time.)

There are two things that really made Zelda II an unenjoyable experience for me.

First of all, the platforming. Fuck. FUCK. FUCK! I can't describe how frustrating I found all the jumping, particularly in its later sections when nearly every instant-death pit is accompanied by flying enemies. It wouldn't be so bad without the ridiculous system of lives, but thankfully Nintendo realized that Zelda games could have pits and not be hair-pullingly frustrating by simply plopping the player back at the start of the room with a penalty to Link's health.

Secondly, the collectibles. There are so few items or spells in the game that have a real effect besides acting as keys. You'll use them once and then never need them again. They don't have any use during the action sequences and simply serve to remind you that instead of being rewarded for developing the skills and knowledge necessary to clear the game's dungeons you're instead rewarded (primarily) for grinding enemies. Why couldn't the hammer be an alternate weapon that could do less damage but knock back or stun enemies? Why don't I ever get to burn anything with the candle, as in the first game? Why don't the boots give me any enhanced abilities like a dash or mid-air hover or fucking ANYTHING? I just want some more variety than my fucking butter knife and shield. Pretty much every item in this game could just be replaced with a unique key.

Combat is actually pretty fun, as the overhead-view games tend to lack the same sense of dynamism. It'd be nice if another Zelda game attempted to have fun swordplay again instead of this garbage lock-on bullshit.

>>1563953
I played Zelda II first and didn't stop until I beat the game. Took me a few weeks though, as a kid. Didn't use cheats or walkthrough, just playing normally...
I also played Castlevania II before the first one but don't remember being confused like people allude to these days. Of course I also played lots of tabletop D&D and didn't expect *every* single clue to make sense or be entirely true.
Maybe the problem is modern games spoonfeed too much to the player? I think that would take a lot of the mystery away, if you know exactly what to do all the time with 100% certainty. Well I don't play modern games anyway, I'll never even have time to finish all the old ones I want to play...
Oh and yeah Faxanadu was another great one. Weird and mysterious and wonderful...

>>1563978
No, the problem with gaming in general is they always dealing with extremes. Middle fucking ground, Anon. Hand holding bullcrap like most modern games do is as bad as the frustratingly wasting my time shit like most old games.

>>1563978
Yeah. Back on the nes I used to try just about anything or any item anywhere just to see if something would happen. You had too. Was great.

>>1563990
But it wasn't frustrating, or I would have ragequit instead of finishing. Games I never finished are more like Deadly Towers. That's a real extreme. Zelda II and Castlevania II are actually quite easy, unless you want every spoonfed.

>>1563994
I guess you have a high tolerance for bullshit, but I assure you they're both a complete pain in the ass, for different reasons.

>>1563963
So you like the CD-i Zeldas?

>>1564007

>>1564009
Don't like it !
Come at me bitch!

>>1564009
Best Zelda right here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGL9FeR30Qc

>>1564020
Oh god, it's the Zelda game Aonuma has always dreamed of.

>>1564062
If you actually want to play it, you can get it from here:
http://www.autofish.net/video_games/creation/zzt/zgames.html
It's a mod for ZZT, so you need that too:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZZT
http://www.dosgamesarchive.com/download/zzt/
You can make your own mods with it too (it was designed for that). Have fun! ;-)

>>1563847
I think I just read what you are referring to and he just wished they'd done more with it, some displeasure in part because of hardware limitations, not that he thought the game just sucked overall.

>>1563956

Which series is that?

>>1564221
Startropics.

>>1562924
I beat it in one day.

>>1562874

that wasn't even the best zelda on the NES

>>1563679

I bet they also think Super Mario Bros 2 is not a Mario game.

>inb4 but muh Doki Doki Panic!

>>1563967
You have to grind money for some items, and in some cases if you try to buy the items from the gods without the exact amount of olives, they will punish you. Dying takes half of your money. Thus you are forced to grind at a spot near the god you need the item from and pray you don't die on your way

>>1563702
stupidest list ive ever fucking seen, plus everyone knows /v/ doesnt know shit about what fun even is

>>1563079
>>>/v/

>>1563094
I like how you started adding periods to your sentences since someone corrected you, lifeless faglord.

>>1564404
>they're in the wrong place

>>1563094
A period precedes a quotation mark you dumb fuck.

>>1562874
Actually one of my favorite games for NES. Everyone hated it because it was nothing like the first one. Is not a Super Mario 2. Is actually a zelda game. It was fun as shit though.

>>1563702
>/v/
>knowing SHIT about video games
Pick one.

>Zelda II will never get the remake it deserves

>>1564428
>Is not a Super Mario 2.

*It is not a Super Mario Bros. 2.

>Is actually a zelda game

*It is actually a Zelda game.

>>1564443
The only remake it deserves is a BS Zelda / Zelda Classic style one. Keep away from 3D

>>1564443
Zelda II doesn't need a remake, it's perfectly fine as it is.

>>1564428
>Everyone hated it because it was nothing like the first one
Nobody hated it back then. This "hate" for Zelda 2 is a brand new thing that's been kicking around for the last few years.

>>1562874
It is my favorite.

>>1564423
Do you also correct people who use the spelling "colour"?

>>1564423
Only in America.

>>1564509
What about armor vs armour? Or favorite vs favourite? Or tires vs tyres?

Zelda 2 is basically 3d Zelda but in 2d, only better. The combat is better, the dungeons aren't full of pointless 'item from dungeon' puzzles, and the magic system is more fleshed out than magic arrows. The xp system lets you customize the difficulty to an extent. The music is excellent. It's an all around great game.

>>1564567
>Ice Cream vs Cold on the Cob

>>1564574
Cold on the Cob is popsicles though, not ice cream.

Another case of "It's the best because it's so unloved and stupidly hard"

>>1564578
>popsicles
>pop sickles
What will Eagleland think of next?

>>1563797
Hahaha, the truth right here.

>>1562882
I am of the same opinion as you
>>1562924
but not you, LA was a bitter disappointment for me.

>>1563956
The first Startropics is probably my favourite NES game. I'd probaly put my list something like
Startropics
Legend of Zelda
Mario 1-3
Faxanadu
and Bucky O'Hare, but for nostalgic reasons, I find I can't probably judge it probably.

I don't also know how to rate Final Fantasy. Some later titles do better what I like about it, but I have heard good arguments why others like the first one best. I do like it best out of the NES ones though.

>>1564423
Not in all cases.

>>1562874
You're kidding. Zelda II is the worst.
Oracle of Seasons is my favorite, followed by Twilight Princess.

I can understand how deviating from the original formula would put some fans off, but I enjoyed Zelda II immensely. Genre shifting was definitely one way to bring a new challenge to the table. Everybody had more or less mastered Zelda 1's overhead style and switch puzzles by then, so rehashing the same formula in Zelda II might not have been as exciting.

I don't understand the "stupidly hard" comments. It seems possible these people didn't play a lot of sidescrolling platformers growing up, so maybe they're just not as skilled at these games. Considering I first beat Zelda II when I was 8, it doesn't seem that difficult to me 20 years later.

>>1564902
>Zelda II is the worst
>Not Skyward Sword

>>1564921
Haven't played it

>>1564925
Skyward sword is basically the definition of hand holdy garbage. You go back to the same 3 areas 3x throughout the course of the game, and it genuinely feels like filler and incredibly tedious. Its also linear as fuck.

>>1564962
Except with waggle. Has your Zelda 2 got waggle?

>>1564962

The sword fighting is at least fun, and the dungeons are good. So it's at least better than Wind Waker.

>>1565024
The sword fighting isn't fun. It's a puzzle. You're literally just playing Simon Says throughout every fight. Puzzles took over the series to the point that even the combat became a puzzle.

The only good thing about the game was that once you deducted the cost of the Wii Remote Plus it was only about $10 new.

okay zelda rating time?

1alttp
2loz
3zelda2
4oot
5albw
6tp
7ss
8la
9ww

havent played any other handheld zeldas or mm because they were cash grabs
ladx 1 gen off remake
ooa/oos gotta buy 'em all
mm buy our expantion pak
lttp/fs remake
mc i skipped the rest so i kept going, plus i'm not a huge capcom fan and i think they were still in charge at this point
ph/st ds touch screen gimmick garbage

>>1564975
>>1565024
I'd like waggle to die, and it probably will considering the direction nintendo took with the Wii-U, which is actually pretty cool, but its on inferior hardware and will generally be a worse console, they are seriously behind a generation.

Sword fighting isn't fun, or even precise for that matter, seriously, the first Ghirahim fight I was trying to do exactly what I was told, hit his fist in the opposite direction. I literally tried for 10 minutes. I continuted to complete the game by flailing my fucking arm around. I'm not even shitting you. It wasn't fun, and it wasn't even slightly hard. It was tedious, the puzzles weren't interesting or engaging, and the only interesting dungeon and boss was in Ancient Cistern and that wasn't even particularily good.

>>1565690
My order.. by favs.
Links Awakening
Link to the Past
Zelda 2
Zelda 1

Everything else irrelevant.
3D:
Wind Waker, Majora's Mask are the only ones I think are worth a damn, even majora's mask is tedious too though.

>>1564423
Not always. Only if it's a sentence that is being quoted.

>>1565095
>You're literally just playing Simon Says throughout every fight.
so any game that has timing is simon says
jeez whiz doc

>>1564580
Zelda 2 isn't "unloved" amongst people born before the 90s.

>>1565924
I didn't know anyone who hated Zelda 2 or Mario 2 until the internets came along.

I recently started coming to /vr/ and have been surprised to see a lot of posts about this game. This is the game I remember playing most as a really young kid.

It's actually a bit of a frightening game compared to other Zeldas. Certain battle sequences in the game are exhausting and pretty jarring, because you have to be FOCUSED (I'm thinking Death Mountain gators and multiple Iron Knuckles in a row). The feeling of solitude is pervasive in this game. You feel pretty much alone the entire time, because the NPCs are incredibly one dimensional and just have stock messages in an uninviting script. In some towns, townsfolk turn into enemies. Also, the game over screen kind of freaked me out as a kid.

The swordplay in this game is way more engrossing than in other Zeldas I've played (LTTP, OoT, MM, WW, LA, Oracles, TP, not 1). In the other games, killing the bosses requires figuring out a trick, but doesn't typically require quick reflexes and precision. In Zelda 2, there isn't much trick to the bosses, you just need to hit them in a particular zone. But they require well-executed jump slashes while avoiding blows. It's a tough game, and I never beat it. I got to the Grand Palace once and gave up or something.

>>1565924
Born in the 80s and I'm not all that fond of Zelda 2. I like 1, 3, and the handheld titles much better.

And I really like BS Zelda. A lot.

I never owned an NES, I've never bought a Zelda game, and have mostly only played them on emulators with a gamepad.

With that out of the way, I have to say that when I started emulating NES, I far preferred Zelda 2 to 1.
>Difficult
Grow a set. It's easier than most NES games.
>Confusing and arbitrary
No more than Zelda 1. If you know 1 in detail, but haven't played 2 much, you are not well suited to making a comparison.
>Not real Zelda
It's been said by others, but at the time, it was merely different to the one other Zelda game made.

>>1563969
>platforming
You haven't played Castlevania then? In fact, most of the things you mentioned are typical of the time.
>combat is fun
yep

Why is Zelda 2 fun? It feels like a real adventure. You're not just exploring the garden like in Zelda 1. Dying is BAD. You lose all your current exp and are set back to the start. You get that feeling of being far from home; the battles can be tense and long, and you have to conserve your life over long distances.
Zelda 2 is a great NES game, with or without the Zelda name.

>>1563941
>>1563941
>New Zelda Cycle:
>Nintendo releases rehash
>fans love/hate it
>Nintendo releases original Zelda
>fans love/hate it

It's been like this since the days of Wind Waker and Twilight Princess. There's two kinds of Zelda fans, the ones who are fueled by nostalgia and want so grim realistic grafics for mature gamers like themselves, and the ones that are sick of it and want something new but with that familiar Zelda feel, even if it means Ninty still has to pander to kids.

Case in Point: Link Between Worlds came out, and some people are orgasming over how much like Link to the Past it is, while others are bitching about how much like Link to the Past it is.

zelda is actually pretty easy by nes game standards.

You can get up to the second to last dungeon by just grinding a few levels. Also if you conserve the free level up from inserting a palace gem you can get even further ahead in stats. Heal spell+grinded stats trivializes most of the content and the really hard rooms can just be skipped entirly with a fairy spell.


The fact that /vr/ has troubles with it really speaks volumes about the type of players posters.

>>1563702
Minish Cap wasn't THAT bad...

>>1568071
It's not as easy as you make it out to be, and besides who gives a fuck about your videogame skills in the great scheme of things.
Having a good memory is probably the only useful videogame skill.

>>1568076
minish cap was bretty gud
/v/ gave it 2 votes for best and 1 vote for worst
quite honestly, it seems like they didn't play it

>>1568076
It was absolutely that bad. When it came out it was the worst non-CDi Zelda game, but it was topped by games like Phantom Hourglass

>>1567838

>>1569334
I liked Wind Waker and Skyward Sword. Twilight Princess will always be shit.

>>1563836
Easy nostalgia goggles

>>1565690
>Majora's Mask
>Cash grabs

>>1562924
fuck off
The item system (specifically the shield) was shit and the resetting message that was sure to tell you that you need to put on the power glove that would reset EVERY TIME YOU MOVED TO A DIFFERENT SCREEN
And the fucking powerup jingles from the acorns and the *not* triforces
0/10 got me mad

>>1565926
bantime
In 6th grade I bought the Zelda Collector's Edition for Gamecube at a Gamestop where I used to get all my games while looking for Wind Waker
My entry in the series was Ocarina of Time and it was followed by Twilight Princess Both on the Wii
So I popped in the disk and immediately beat OoT again
Skipped over Majora's Mask cause back then I thought it was shit, in my top 5 Zelda games now
Beat Zelda 1 with a Gamecube controller and a walkthrough fuck you Zelda 1 is a Nintendo Power game
So I loaded Zelda 2 eventually and seeing it on my CRT looked really pretty to me
The title screen was just really pretty. After Zelda 1, Zelda 2 looked colorful as fuck
I spent maybe a good 2 months exclusively playing Zelda 2 and Mario 64
I still regard Zelda 2 as a really amazing Zelda game, I'd rank it somewhere after ALttP, OoT 3d, ALBW, and MM
I never beat Zelda 2 though. Only had a Gamecube controller and I had no idea that I could buy a classic controller adapter for the GC
Hell back then I measured my Wifi signal by bars
Anyway my point is that the GC controller was awful for such a game, but I finally made it to the Valley of Death, just before the final palace
I think around then I saw the AVGN video and felt enough closure to put it down.
Every time I try to pick it up on an emulator, I just can't
It requires too much dedication for my schedule and I just have other stuff to play when I do have time for games
Like other Zelda games ya'know

>>1563956

>pic

ow, that surely hurt

>>1570152
>It requires too much dedication for my schedule

Nigga, what? I have beat it in a single day without saving. It is not that long of a game.

>>1570917
Zero deaths, emulator screenshot.
Yeah, seems legit.

>>1570919
The game counts deaths every time you save. Even if I save stated, there is no way I would be able to clear the game in just three lives along the extra ones in the map, if I were not playing start to finish. The lives are gone after you take them and saving just brings you back to three lives. The way to and The Great Palace eat up your lives like candy.

>>1570924
I haven't played this in years, is the number under your file name supposed to count deaths or exp?
I think I dun goofed.

>>1570919
Plenty of people can beat Zelda 2 without much hassle. There's a reason people make much harder romhacks for it.

>>1570931
Never once heard of a zelda 2 hack.

>>1570934
Journey of a Day
Shadow of Night
Zelda 2 Part II

only the best

>>1564962
Yeah I was really disappointed with Squidward Sword. Didn't Nintendo say that was supposed to be a return to Zelda's roots of having actual exploration instead of shallow hubworlds?

>>1570917
I'm not good at it and I don't care to memorize the locations of everything
Sorry anon
I just don't like it nearly as much as almost every PC game and most retro games I own

>>1563702
Not surprising given the average age around here is early to mid 20's

playable zeldas: tloz, aol, ladx, mm
unplayable zeldas: everything else

>>1573530
the fuck does "playable" even mean here?
If you like it, whatever
but SS is objectively bad

>>1569332

nah it's better than link wakes up and those unfocused oracle games

>>1574982

SS is fine

>>1574982
playable means worth playing
the majority of zeldas arent worth playing

>>1575008
not as a zelda gam m9
but everyone has different tastes
>>1575015
That is super subjective; don't go shitting up the place acting like you're on /v/

>>1577023
DO NOT ENGAGE THE KNOWN SHITPOSTER TROLL.

>>1563990
>>1563996
I don't really remember Zelda II having anything that someone with a decent amount of patience couldn't be expected to figure out on their own. It's not like Zelda I with it's "bomb this exact spot that looks the same as every other spot" and the like.

>>1577403
New Kasuto.

I remember hating this game the first time I played it, for the typical "not muh zelda" reasons.

the Duane and Brando song made me finally give it a chance and now it's one of my favorite NES games.

>>1577440
Could you imagine if they made a new Zelda game with modern graphics, where you have to clearcut a forest to find a town hidden in it?

>>1562874
But Anon.

That's not Majora's Mask

>>1565926
I was le tricked by zelda 2 as a child. I grew up with the supah nintender but the first zelda game I played was OoT, after that I got an old Gameboy pocket and a copy of Links awakening and it was my favorite, Later I got a GBA and saw a copy of zelda 2 for it. Spent all my little pocket monies on it and was dissapointed, It's still a good game but it dissapointed me when I was little and that set it back in my mind.

>>1578914
>Links awakening

*Link's Awakening

>>1578914
>dissapointed

*Disappointed

>>1570928
The count under your name are deaths. Much like A Link to the Past, the only way to get a 000 file is to play it without dying from start to finish, even if you don't die, each save counts as a death