/vr/ - Retro Games

Is your "?" key broken, OP?

Thief is great, Gold is better, 2 is best.

>>1532861
thief 1 is excellent, but it had its flaws, thief 2 fixed all those flaws and was a much better game

op here. yeah it's stuck, and i am not using a mechanical keyboard.

It's 2 spooky 4 me with all the skeletons. I like Thief 2 a lot better.

>>1532883
Thief TDP is my favorite.Sure it has some bad levels but so does Thief 2 and its atmosphere and variety in levels makes up for it.

I like each and every level (no exceptions), the story, and the progressing of Thief TDP. Thief Gold kinda broke that for me. I don't like Thief 2, though I sometimes would replay it, to see if my perception would shift. It still didn't. Deadly Shadows I only played once, so no opinion.

>>1532861
This and Thief 2 are the best stealth games up to date.
I mean seriously...like 15 years and nobody was able to top them.
That would be funny if it wasn't so depressing.

>>1533045
Yeah, it would be the ultimate 1st person game for me too, but I don't care for the supernatural elements.

I only played Gold recently, but I think I could have done without those levels, especially Thieves Guild. The regular ones are amazing though, The Sword being my favorite. Thief 2 is my favorite of the series but this game is essential.

ok, so i want to play thief. i never really played it, just dicked around for 20-30 mins in thief gold a while back. i often hear that thief2 is the best.
with wich one should i get started? thief1, thief2, thief gold? are there any differences between 1 and gold? i think i read it's just a grafical overhaiul, but i remember it looking ass.
is 3 worth playing?

>>1534734
I would recommend starting with gold (It comes with a few missions along with game)

>>1532861
Best game. That and 2. About on par with each other for when they came out. 2 has probably "aged" better (general big fixes and cleaner level design).

>>1534734
Thief 2 is probably the best. I'd start with Thief Gold as it's just shy of 2. Thief Gold has 4 or so new levels. It does kinda look like ass because it's old. 3 is worth playing for sure. It needs a little more love to be on par with Thief 1 and 2 though. But gameplay wise, it's not far off.

>>1532884
>Gold is better
Surely you jest, taffer.
Gold added 2 atrocious levels and 1 decent one.
And of course they must all be played.

>>1532861
I love it op. My favourite game of all time. I also prefer Thief 1 to Thief 2 for a number of reasons. To begin with it has a much greater level variety and the missions are more interesting overall (at least I found). I really enjoyed how the devs explored the entire concept of thievery, it wasn't just
>break in
>steal some nobleman's trinket
It was also break into age old tombs and steal from the dead.

The atmosphere is incredible and remains the best, the sound engine really helped (don't forget to install openal for EAX support after you patch it)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfVi8A5SOgY

Thief 2 has little variety and near the end it drops a little in quality. Especially with Casing the Joint. Though the variety feels appropriate to the themes of the game. In the original you stop a pagan god of the natural and the levels feel like they're appropriate. They change incredibly as you go on and feel surreal, often archaic. Thief 2's levels feel very structured and standard, reflects how you're fighting a madman mechanist. Objectively I think Thief 1 and 2 are even with one game doing some things better than the other and vice versa. Definitely my 2 favourite games of all time.

>>1535525
>tfw I must have replayed original Thief games at least 5 times
>still can't get around to playing fan missions
I have them all installed too. Around 120 of them and whenever I think about playing them I just end up playing the originals. I've completed 5 or so FMs.

The only problem with Thief is the movement engine (the way it looks is absolutely fine - remember to put the gamma down, it does matter a lot) - the painfully slow running, the way you bounce off the walls when you try to jump through the window, the problems you constantly have with ladders and ropes.

Other than that, it's sweet.

>>1536361
I think in most FPS games I've played there were at least some problems with ladders. It's almost universal.

>>1536361
I didn't realize this until recently but the manual actually tells you how to set the gamma. Even in total darkness (like the basement of the first Thief II level) you need to be able to see very slightly. Simple as that.

>>1536365
I never found them problematic in Half-Life just because it's simple and consistent. If you're very close to the ladder you're laddering.

>>1536348
Now that I think about it, it might be time to replay Thief.

How's the progress of the anon who is creating a proper HD texture mod?

I still sometimes complete it in one afternoon for old time's sake.

Fan missions are great, Calendra's series and Order Of The Vine are the best.

who's beaten both on expert

it wasn't easy

>>1537306
Try the Lytha's way:

http://www.lytha.com/thief/lythaway/index.phtml

>>1537317
I feel a better set of rules would be no knockouts, don't get explicitly seen, don't exploit dumbness in the AI by unlighting lots of torches and using moss arrows where people will notice the patches, give or take depending on the level.

>>1537306
Definitely not no-death,

>>1536354
I know that feel. I've played a few, and intend on completing that list at some point, but I've been too busy with textures to get to it.

>>1536361
Once I got used to movement in thief the only problems I've had are with ladders. Just dismounting them without bouncing oddly in some places. Slightly more thought out level design fixes those problems though.

>>1535525

I'd also recommend: Rose Cottage, Under TempleHill, Incubus, Secret Breaking of a Pyramid, Children of the Future, and Memoirs of a Dead God

>>1537393
You can press either Ctrl or Shift while on a ladder to just let go and drop without any problems

>>1537306
I've never even played on anything but expert, frankly. It's more fun that way.

>>1536365
>See a long drop in an FPS
>Spot a ladder leading down
>QUICKSAVE QUICKSAVE QUICKSAVE DEAR GOD QUICKSAVE
>March off the edge without sticking to the ladder three times before you successfully mantle onto it

Even to this VERY day FPS struggles with ladder mounting. Case in point; Borderlands 2 requires you to jump, on average, two or three times onto a ladder before you climb it. It doesn't work at all if you're running when you do it, most of the time.

>>1537685
FEAR was one of the only games I can think of that didn't have ladder issues.

Favorite game of all time. Would love to see a modern game designed this way, other than the dark mod. I think there'd be good money in it from the hardcore pc audience...

>>1537369
>I feel a better set of rules would be no knock-outs
knocking out deals damage, so its forbidden in lythas way

>don't get explicitly seen
the true hallmark of a master thief for me is that you are never seen, only later in the morning do they discover the missing valuables

>>1537805
whatever happened to dm? was it released?

also, did anyone else had fun exploiting the speed bug when you continuously jump and gather crazy speed? you can kill yourself in hilarious ways like running into the wall or getting hit by your own fire arrow.

>>1538648
It's a bit strange but the software rendering in your pic has a charming look to it that fits the atmosphere of Thief.

>>1537306
I recently replayed on expert ghost run. Now I'm replaying again on expert, ghost run, no damage, no knockouts, nothing. I just finished The Sword. Does anyone have any tips for ghosting undead levels like Haunted Cathedral or Bonehoard? At times they feel almost like they're not designed to be stealthed.

bumping
Thief has one of the best soundtracks in vidya. Both of the originals. Eric Brosius did a brilliant job and I wish he did more soundtracks in the same vein.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqdIR-TkMEc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PQVaPi1XHM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0P9tePJXBg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cr7sW6vbfM4

>>1537740
Well that's because you need to "use" them, then your character latches onto it. It's very unlike other FPSs where there is no real transition. Thief 2 was better with ladders, as you actually "stuck" on them but kept some freedom of movement.

>>1538648

>>1537317
>Lytha's way
>Can't knockout the guards, or kill any monsters, including ratmen, crabmen, or zombies
>But feel free to run full tilt past them to grab your objectives and hide until they calm down

Fuck that, terrible set of rules.

I like all the Thief games except the last one, but I can't help but feel that Thief 3 is my favorite.

I don't know why.
I fucking love that level with the fishmen.
Too bad the game is just way too easy. It's like you're given so many tools to beat your missions, yet never have to use any of them on any difficulty.

>>1540335
I really like Thief 3. But it has so many little things that -outside of the missions- take me out of the immersion a bit.

This is kinda related but since Thief shares engine with System shock 2 you can make maps for SS2 or use the assest from the game into Thief maps?

>>1540860
You can make maps. I can't imagine why you couldn't transder attributes, but I have no clue how to do it.

Just beat thief Gold about an hour ago and now getting the taffer patch for thief 2. I really did enjoy the variety and liked how it showed even in extreme cases that Garret still manages to make the rent. Also it's quite amazing how much sound if important in this game, from the foot steps to the subtle music that doesn't intrude but won't let you feel alone.

But I'm wondering if there are any books that have a similar feel to the thief series?

>>1539463
Yeah, I think so too, but I get called a casul any time I say I prefer even normal-ass casual runs to lytha-style ones

>tfw /vr/ is too slow to constantly discuss Thief
>/v/ is too shit to discuss Thief all together
sucks man

Did anyone else think Thief 1 feels incredibly surreal? Even the most normal levels like Bafford's Manor and Song of the Caverns feel odd

>>1538648

>also, did anyone else had fun exploiting the speed bug when you continuously jump and gather crazy speed?

huh? I did jump all the time to make up for the slow movement but sth like that never happened to me. Was it fixed in the patch?

>>1540951
My friend Ralph wrote a book "Ghoul" and just released the 2nd book in the story arc. The descriptions of the cobblestone streets, gas lamps, rainy nights, etc. felt very Thief-esque.

Use Amazon's preview mode. The prologue literally mentions thieves in the city of Merund.

http://www.amazon.com/Ghoul-Ralph-McGeary/dp/1477589139

>>1534826
>>1535547
thx for the answers. one more question:
so after playing thief gold, i don't need to bother with thief1, is that correct.

>>1541565
Correct

>>1541405
A lot of the levels feel that way to me because some level design makes little sense. Like sitting rooms on stair landings and large empty basements with no reason to exist.

Most of which makes sense level design wise, but logically it's a little off

>tfw
feels great

Also is there any way to tell my king to fuck off and start my own kingdom WITHOUT taking a castle and renouncing him for not granting it to me? I just want to break off at this point.

>>1542317
oy vey it's another shoah

>>1540951
The Name of the Rose is cited by the devs as an inspiration. I haven't read it, but it sounds a lot like Undercover.

>>1542317
Disregard this post, I thought I was in /m&bg/

>>1542354
The Name of the Rose is only an inspiration in terms of the setting, since it's about medieval monks and a murder mystery surrounding a monastery. The place has a dark feel to it, but you aren't going to go in expecting smug assholes like Garrett.

As for the >>1540951 question - Terry Pratchett is a fan of the Thief series, and has been on google newsgroups about Thief in the past. He loved playing fan missions, and you could argue that Ankh-Morpork, especially in books like Guards! Guards!, is inspired by Thief.

I love the first Thief (except for Thieves Guild and Escape!). I prefer the first to the second just a bit, though the second one is also an incredible game with the best mission in the series (Life of the party).

I like Thief 2 better because Thief 1 had a too much running around in abandoned caverns as opposed to a highly guarded compound. The enemies in those levels like the zombies, I never really felt like I had to hide from them and be sneaky, kind of taking away one of the main points if the game. That's why I loved the Mage Towers mission in Gold(aside from the fucking air tower glitch) because it went back to the formula of what I liked about the series. 2 was better because it had less of the 2spooky4u no real stealth required levels.

>>1543323
You can sneak past the zombies and what not just like the gaurds, but they didn't' do as good a job conveying what they were thinking at the time. So it's harder to tell when they're alert and what not without directly looking at them.

Thief one was the best. Excellent game

>>1543437
I know you can sneak past them, but to me it didn't really feel like you had to. With the human enemies it made me feel like being able to complete the mission depended on me not setting the place on alert.

>>1543537
Fair enough.

I loved the pagan and mechanist and hammers interactions. Brilliant setting. Pity the new ones such a departure.

>>1538889

From a sound design perspective, the Thief games were way ahead of everyone else, they still are in many ways.

Something interesting is that Harmonix, where Eric Brosius and a couple of the other Thief devs now work, are developing some kind of sound/music based FPS called Chroma.

This might be a bit of a stretch, but that sounds to me like more of a successor to the Thief series than anything else we've had so far.

Anybody seen this yet? An interview from last month with some devs of original Thief. Narrator is a bit of a twat and plays like a retard but it's very interesting to hear what the devs have to say and what they had in mind whilst making Thief

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHITDn2qnhg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AcmmDeJS1k

>>1541125
Honestly, there's nothing wrong with just playing on expert - Thief has a lot of places where combat was clearly intended, and those places aren't occurring where humans are. Also, if you're not ghosting the heist levels, the guards will engage you in combat and most likely kill you, you don't need to set a "no detections" rule because getting caught generally leads to death anyway.

Left - Doom texture
Middle - Thief texture
Right - Higher res

>>1545341

>>1545341

>Evil Spock

>>1544180
>people came in and repossessed the plants of the office...we were unable to pay the money anymore for plants so they took the plants back.
The heck, hah.

>>1545341
>Michael Jordan's soul token

>One of the Thief team's favorite games during development was Goldeneye on the N64. We were particularly struck by the manner in which levels of difficulty were handled. Each level of difficulty had a different overlapping set of objectives for success, and missions were subtly changed at each level in terms of object placement and density. Relatively late in the development of Thief, we decided such a system would work well in our game.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/131762/postmortem_thief_the_dark_project.php?print=1

>>1546168
Interesting article

>>1544180
Great interview, shame about that tard interviewer. I don't think he even played Thief until a few days before. At least he put some effort into his research.


Does anyone have more stuff like this? I love reading about how Thief was made and interviews from people involved.

>>1546582
You should check the massive Looking Glass Studios podcast by Gambit.
http://gambit.mit.edu/updates/audio/looking_glass_studios_podcast/
Bear in mind this is not narrowed to Thief only, they're discussing their involvement in other games too.

My experience with Thief

>>1546697
Why do you think it's called thief the DARK project?
You could just turn up the gamma

>>1546820
You could just turn up the shut fuck.

I may do that. I'd really like to enjoy the game.

>>1547110
Are you on an LCD monitor? It might be more clear if you find a CRT lying around.

>>1547123
Not him, but I played it on a shit TN panel and it worked out pretty well. I had to adjust the gamma/brightness in the Nvidia control panel which really helped, otherwise the entire screen has that washed out white sheen.

>>1546697
Alter the gamma. They tell you how to set it in the manual: Just enough to see vaguely in total darkness.

>listening to Thief 1-3 soundtracks because goddamn Eric Brosius did an incredible job
>put some visualisations on
>Sword soundtrack comes on
>this visualisation appears
it's like the program knows.

also bump for greatest video series

I almost never replay stealth games since I tend to be way too perfectionist (I tend to quickload more than I tend to play and ALWAYS when I'm detected) but damn it Thief 1 and 2 are really fucking good and Garrett is really well written, still I can't bring myself to replay them
If only this level of quality stealth gamed were still made...

>>1549187
There are always fan missions. But Garrett isn't as well written in most.

>>1549250
I've been interested in playing T2X, but the download always fucks up, also I downloaded The Dark Mod torrent but my pc always freezes when it tries to load the missions, though I'm right now kind of stuck in the mission after Life of the Party in vanilla Thief 2.

>>1549306
T2X is a lot of fun, and has some great missions. But the story is a little weak and the main character isn't that cool imo. She's not awful, but she's a little stupid for being as smart as she comes off.

Anyway. Yeah. Finish T2 I guess. If I can find the original install maybe I'll upload T2X somewhere for you. It's kinda big so we'll see.

>>1549313
Thanks man that'd be nice

>>1549327
Well it turns out I don't have the install. But I did zip the whole folder up. If you want it lemme know, I'll find a place to store it.

I actually won a copy of this, c&c tiberian sun, and homeworld back in 99 at a big quake 2 tournament. Had the id Quakebus pull up and me and 7 other peeps got to play some Q3 beta on it. But yeah, the game is fun, unique and challenging. If you like it at all give the 2nd a try as well.

tfw: Thief takes place on earth, thousands of years in the future

>>1550641
Looks great anon, keep at it.
I'm interested to see what you do for those mossy cobblestones on the right.

>>1550921
>tfw I will never get to visit The City for real, one of the most atmospheric places on earth

>>1550921

The thing about the Thief world is that it would probably be among the more interesting fictional worlds to actually live in.

I could go on forever exploring a theoretical whole world with areas such as the ones in Thief, the best parts of those games was discovering something new around the corner.

Though in a practical sense I'd be far more likely to be one of the peasants on the street definitely not enjoying the benefits of modern hygiene and medicine.

>>1551086
Or you could join up the City Watch and hunt some Taffers.

>>1551089
City watch would probably be the way to go for the most part. They apparently let anyone in.

Private security might be okay too, but they seem to be assholes more often than not. At least city watch had some decent cops on the beat. Yeah... I want a game where you play a watchman in a thieflike setting.

>>1549481
As far as it can be played it doesn't really matter

>>1551083
Thx. One texture a day. Should be fun on a bun.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/sjsmgsggshm5bam/t2x.7z

The Hammerites alone are a reason to play Thief 1.

>>1552379
Mechanists aren't bad in 2 though. They're the same zealots with a new pope. Also robots.

I really liked reading the religious texts in Thief 1 though. Lotta detail in the lore there. Every faction seems to have their own feel.

I love all 3 Thief games, I'm kinda bummed so many people hate Deadly Shadows though. But the other anon is right that it's really easy.
I know a lot of people dislike Thieves Guild, but am I the only one who hated the last 3 missions of Thief 2? You have to revist the same level twice, and then the god awful backtracking in the last mission drove me nuts.

>>1552547
I loved Casing the Joint because they actually designed it to be ghosted. You have a huge place to map out, and the enemies are simultaneously able to surprise you but also sparse enough to avoid. Sabotage at Soulforge though is probably my most hated level in both games. The one time I played it I didn't complete it because after slogging through everything and triggering the final tower switch, I was trapped by a grate, and guess when my quicksave was.

Also never played Thief 3, have watched a playthrough though and it seemed alright barring the level sizes and a bunch of small things (goofy physics, Pagan mannerisms).

>>1552658
Never minded casing the joint as much as other people seemed to. But I also like the thieves guild and all too so.

>>1552658
I disliked Casing The Joint because it was so unfinished. You can get to the second floor and there's no guards, holes in the wall, floating objects, and the MASKS THEMSELVES. The mission is a mess.

I want to play thief but I can't handle the primitive 3D combined with the darkness, what should I do?

>>1552960
>can't handle the darkness
Have you tried attacking it?

>>1552960
play deus ex 2, it uses thief engine. but its not retro? and psychic/nanoteh powahs kill everything easy in DE2 so you sneak even less than in DE1

I keep coming back to this game even though I never get past level two, the atmosphere is just too intense for me, I always shit my pants.

>>1552960
Turn up gamma. Wait for a 3D model pack to come out.

>>1532884
>thieves guild mission

>>1553698
>thieves guild
>bad
It was one of the weaker missions but it's by no means bad. It's very simple too and easy if you listen to what the guards have to say
>go to reuben's
>get key
>go to donel's
>get vase
>steal some loot along the way

>>1553876
Looks like you described the mission parameters on the easiest difficulty.
You know naught.
Try figuring out the location of the bracelet hidden within a fireplace.

>>1553892
>on easiest
I always play on expert.
Bracelet wasn't even that hard. The texture of the safe sticks out like a sore thumb. Stop talking shit. Next you'll be telling me Bonehoard isn't one of the best levels of the game

Does anyone know a way to noclip in this game? I want to go back to all the levels and just see how everything fit together, I just think it would be really interesting. Can someone tell me about any sort of mod I can download or modification I can make to the game files to be able to do this?

>>1554684
I don't think that would be an option in vanilla. But you could just open up a level in DromEd and float around that way.

>>1535525
Why do you hate Ominous Bequest, anon?

>>1556265
I didn't make the list. Pretty sure it's okay to add to it.

One thing I don't like about many Thief fan missions is when they try to get too fancy with the lighting. It makes it unclear what shadows are hide-able.

>>1556678
I guess what I'm asking is, what fan missions have the best thief-like lighting?

>>1546697
It's a pretty dark plot

Alright. What is the blue texture on the beams here. I can't seem to find it.