/vr/ - Retro Games

Easy as shit to pirate games.

Also, Sega.

>>1538904
The controller and most games released on the west were garbage.

Personally, I blame the rampant piracy. The Dreamcast actually was doing really really well but then it lost a little bit of its momentum right coincidentally with the onset of Sony's PS2 marketing blitz.

It really could have made it but it didn't... Also don't tell anyone I tokd you this but I think it was Microsoft who leaked the GD-ROM security flaw.. They might have even put it there to start with.

Sega lost tons of money on the Saturn and other shit. Then sold Dreamcast for no profit I think? Then the PS2 took over. It was mostly Sega's debts catching up to them and bringing the company down. If there was no Saturn, 32x, and other things, then the Dreamcast could ahve survived.

>>1538924
But the Saturn was great. The root of the problem was the Sega CD and the 32x.

>>1538928
>But the Saturn was great.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_Saturn#Decline

>>1538934
I repeat:
>The root of the problem was the Sega CD and the 32x.
That's why the Saturn underperformed so badly.

Too many quirky games that lacked mainstream appeal.

Sega ran out of money to fight an advertising war against Sony.

Most likely Dreamcast would have died no matter what thanks to Sega's terrible finances.

It was released too early. Should have gone head to head with it's contemporaries.

>>1538928
>The root of the problem was the Sega CD and the 32x.
people need to stop repeating this shit
the sega CD was mildly successful and had its own niche
32X was too small to do any lasting impact
sega fucking up the saturn and failing to support the genesis/mega drive properly was the killing blow

>>1538938
I think it was the fact that it was a 2D system and impossible to program for.

>>1538938

Competing with themselves hurt them. But a major issues was the fact that the Saturn was a mess of a system.

>"I believe if we look at [the Sega] Saturn, it was a system that shouldn't have been launched. It was too difficult to develop for therefore the games were not fun and the games weren't there. This isn't a matter about hardware, this is about software. Software has always driven hardware. You don't have the software, the hardware will fail."
—Bernie Stolar, former president of Sega of America giving his assessment of the Saturn in 2004.[61]


>>1538943

CD was mildly successful, but the 32x was just a money sink.

>>1538942
The Dreamcast was originally a competitor for the N64 and PS1, wasn't it?

>>1538952

Six or 8 CPus.

Complex design and architecture. What were they thinking?

To give some idea: In Virtua Fighter each of the two main CPUs controlled a character. That's insane.

>>1538959
I was under the impression that the difficult hardware was, at least partly, the result of rushing to give the system 3D capability when they realized they couldn't stick with 2D for another generation

>>1538943
It may had been mildly successful, but it was crap. And soon after that they released the 32x, which was a bigger crap. So by the time they released the Saturn, which was barely a year after that people were tired of their shit, so nobody wanted it.

>>1538971
>It may had been mildly successful, but it was crap
There is nothing crap about the Sega CD except Sega's bone-headed decision to promote FMV games at the expense of the actual good games which nobody knows about.

>>1538949

Wasn't this the guy who said RPGs had no business being on a console after the release of Final Fantasy VII?

>>1538987
>Wasn't this the guy who said RPGs had no business being on a console after the release of Final Fantasy VII?
he said RPGs were a waste of time to release
he was right, there's no RPG on saturn that could have competed in sales with FF7

>>1538957
No, that was just misinformation spewed when /vr/ wasn't allowed to talk about DC.
Much like the WiiU the goal was to get out their first and claim a share of the market before competition showed up.

This is what went wrong

>>1538987
I don't know if he did or if he didn't but what he says about hardware v software is absolutely true. Think of it this way: everyone had a friend or knew someone growing up whose mother had the best quality cookware and pots and pans and state-of the-art kitchenware and appliances, yeah? But this woman nonetheless either A) didn't use the stuff, B) used it only as far as to prepare ready-meals ("TV dinners" or "dinner kits" for you Yanks) or C) tried with all her heart but couldn't cook for crap anyway. That kitchenware? That's analogous to gaming hardware. The ready-meals are analogous to software IE she has the best, strongest available things to work with but used the worst possible stuff in it. Doesn't matter how powerful the CPU is or how much potential the console has if the programmes and games made for it suck more than a faggot at a Circuit Party.

Regardless of how powerful Game Gear, TurboExpress/GameTank and Lynx potentially were, their combined sales can't hold a candle to that of the far inferior GB, which sold nearly 65.000.000 units worldwide. Why? It had games people actually wanted to play in large numbers, unlike the middling numbers for TGXP/PCEGT and GG and complete absense from AL.

I think it was the over-abundance of shitty grind heavy JRPGs.

Plus, look at their flagship titles like Shenmue, that garbage was boring, took forever to get nowhere, ushered in QTEs, and had one of the most pointless plots even by video game standards.

Sega being dumb with their money. They were already bleeding money from previous failures and what's the best thing to do? Obviously make Shenmue with a budget so high in order to make a profit it would require everyone who owned a Dreamcast to buy two copies.

>>1539053
>grind-heavy jRPGs
I've not played many DC games in general. The only RPG I played for it was that super shitty Shits of Shitcadia. I don't understand why the game has such a devoted followed. It's quite easily one of the least imaginative, most boring, simply awful jRPGs I've ever, ever had the displeasure of 'playing.' I got as far as some sandmoster golem-y thing and decided "You know what? No." and the 'game' was put away, never again to see the light of day.
If other jRPGs for the DC were similar to that turd in disc form, I'm quite happy to have not played many of them. JSR was fun, though, but an entire console can hardly be upheld solely by a single good game.

>>1539053
>Shenmue, that garbage was boring

Them's fighten' words, friend. Quick, press right to dodge my hook. Now press down to d- oops, you fucked up.

>>1539053
>>1539065

don't understand the hype it gets

genesis? yeah saturn? yeah

never liked any dreamcast game i tried

sonic adventure, jet radio, shenmue, skies of arcadia, crazy taxi, all those games were terrible

not surprised it died 2 years into its life tbh

>>1539098
I like JSR and CT but that's about it. The other games I've actually tried for the DC that aren't fighters (fighting games for DC are fan-fucking-tastic) have been entirely ghastly experiences to play.

>>1539098
Dreamcast is loved because of all the shooter and fighting game ports along with a bunch of really unique quirky games. If you don't like those then I can see why you wouldn't like the Dreamcast.

>>1539098
People who love the Dreamcast don't care about the "big name" games like Sonic Adventure. They're into the shmups, fighting games, and other arcade ports. The DC is basically an arcade system. The Sega Naomi arcade hardware is identical aside from having more RAM.

If you aren't into arcade games, you probably wouldn't like the Dreamcast.

>>1538904
From germany
-no real advertising or killer apps showcast
-most casual(aka dudebros) gamers still obsessed with there ps1 console
-still no internet flatrate offer that time around
-pokemon hype


But the dreamcast was very positive by hardcore and pc gamers.

>>1538904
Dreamcast was too gamey.

>>1538998

>posting something that repeatedly mentions the PSX and even calls the PS2 the PSX2.

It's like you want the underaged trolls to swarm this thread.

According to then-Sega America VP Charles Bellfield, "We had the content right. We had the marketing right. The product was designed right. The philosophy of networked capabilities was right. The team was right. The partners we had were right. But we didn't have the budget to be able to build the confidence of the brand in the eyes of our competitors that we were going to be around. That, to me, is the Achilles Heel of the Dreamcast."

Peter Moore

So what was with the Dreamcast? It wasn't really a 7th gen console was it? Iirc it came out half a year earlier than the PS2 but I've never considered it on the same level as the GC/Xbox/PS2. Loved it all the same, but w/ that silly one-analog controller just how...

>>1539023
>Yanks

I want /pol/ to leave

>>1540020
I've never been to /pol/. I'm just yankin' yer chain, ya Yank!

>>1539941
No, of course it wasn't 7th gen. Neither were the PS2, Xbox, or Gamecube, for that matter.

>>1539941
It's about as powerful as a PS2. The normal controller isn't very good, but many games had specialized controllers or keyboard and mouse support. Much like the PS4, the only reason why it failed is because Sega was kill by the time it came out.

>>1540064
Is the PS4 struggling? I haven't nearly paid enough attention to the currrent gen. I usually look at it when there are either enough games or enough knowledge to explore the system.

>>1540073
It's the most popular console right now, but Sony is still on its last legs. They're looking more and more like Sega did immediately after the Dreamcast launch.

>>1540086
Sony is still a reputable brand because of the first two consoles though, and they're probably not gonna get BTFO like the Dreamcast did.
To keep in on topic, the DC is my favorite system because of how unique it was. Being a commercial failure only added to that allure and mysticism. Even though the PS1 was a lot more important, nothing will ever beat that alien, lost-in-time kind of feeling the Dreamcast could pull, from the borderline experimental marketing/publicity vibes, to the weird yet comfortable Japanese games.
Seriously, the DC is a different experience. It's like drinking water from a fountain of an ancient tribe. Even though I'm not a weeaboo by any means, I could feel and appreciate that niche Japanese vibe from all the weird games.

>>1540124
I hope you played Napple Tale. There is almost nothing quite like it. Sega really dropped the ball by not releasing it

>>1540159
I'm still only entering the Japanese catalog. I barely even played anything, but I will eventually create a thread for more discussion, since there seem to be a lot of gems there.

>>1538942

This, at least for us. Most people were still getting a lot of mileage out of their N64s and PS1s. Especially consider that not everybody was an early adopter. I don't think our family upgraded from a Genesis to a N64 until late 1997. No way my parents were going to buy another console only two years later, jawdropping as the Dreamcast may have been at the time.

>>1538942
It would have tanked BIG TIME. Sega knew Sony was coming up with their next console, and specifically marketed the DC to get as big a jump over the upcoming systems as possible.

>>1540214
This. There was no space for SEGA anymore. Either they anticipated their release and started establishing themselves while there was no competition, or they'd compete head to head with the opposition and risk be forgotten within a month.
Problem was SEGA's ideals as a whole did not fit the market's demands at the time. The Dreamcast was never built to be the main console of a home. Their titles were always more alternative, and in general way less popular than Sony's titles. SEGA always liked their own flavors of game style, heavily inspired by the arcade format. There was no way the DC could ever be a contender in the home console market.

I believe now with be a good time to release a console like the Dreamcast. There is now a lot of variation in taste and demand, and people are now comfortable with the idea of having more than one console at home.

Playstation 2 hype was the number 1 reason. Their brand was simply too strong, and when Sony announced it would have a DVD player and do 60 million (flat shaded and identical, which of course Sony didn't mention) polygons per second, it was game over for Sega. The PS2 even crushed the Gamecube (which probably would've been Nintendo's last system if not for their handhelds and Pokemon picking up the bottom line slack) and Xbox.

Sega was a dead man walking by 1998. There was nothing they could do to stay in the hardware business at that point. The Dreamcast launch was about as perfect as a launch could be (despite some hardware shortages), and it still wasn't enough.

>>1538904
Sony PR boys slaughtered it by hyping the fuck out of PS2. Then after successfully killing the Dreamcast screwed everyone by crippling PS2 with a lousy 2MB VRAM.

Also Sega fucked themselves when they released the Saturn 6 months prematurely, causing a number of stores like KB Toys refused to carry another Sega product.

>>1538909
The first post of the thread is also the most retarded.

>>1540289
The PS2 crushed everything. To this day it's still the best selling console. It sold almost as much as the DC, Xbox, and GC combined... and multiplied by three.

Too many people go burned on Sega's long string of previous failures, a general lack of marketing, failures of management.

Commodore is a similar but far more tragic story.

>>1540374
>far more tragic story

Do tell

id blame it on a decade's worth of cancerous internal politics within SEGA

the american and japanese divisions just couldnt get along, and millions upon millions of dollars were wasted in the process

>>1540382
Read Brian Bagnall's book. So many missed opportunities and poor management decisions.

I don't care how bad the Dreamcast bombed, I get to enjoy free high quality games. Now, if somebody hacked the PS1 games and reverse engineered their code to run natively on Dreamcast hardware, everyone would be set.

>>1539941

basically it was the beta version of the xbox

No DRM
Burned bridges with both consumers (releasing the saturn right after the 32X) and developers (releasing the saturn without telling anybody working on games for it)
But yeah the PS2 was just an undefeatable hype train, they weren't ever gonna topple it just to begin with.

>>1538924
>Then sold Dreamcast for no profit I think?

You realize that's how most consoles are sold right? At least for the first while. Shit's sold at a loss and they make it up on prices for vidya and peripherals (or in the case of Xbox, paid online)

>>1538913
>The controller and most games released on the west were garbage.
Cant comment on the games since I haven't played but two or three of them, but the DC controller is one of the best /vr/ controllers I've ever used. Certainly the best for 3d gaming.

>>1538949
>the games weren't there
GEE I WONDER WHY

Fucking asshat.

>>1540437
I gotta agree with you on the note about the controller. Arcade stick feels better for a few games though like Spawn and Geomatrix.

No DVD player
Too many failures in the early-mid 90s, they were "crying wolf" even if it was a great console

PS2 destroyed it horribly

>>1538952
So was the PS2 and PS3, that didn't stop them.

>>1538990
Dragon Force!

I personally loved the Dreamcast. But say what you want about the console, everyone agrees that Dreamcast had at least one amazing game for it.

(Hint: Pic related)

>>1538909

Nobody even knew you could pirate games like you can now until the system was already on its deathbed. It was the hype of the PS2 and a wary public. Japanese people were pissed they abandoned the Saturn and Americans didn't trust Sega after the Saturn. Britbongs remained irrelevant in gaming.

Sega was digging their grave from the start of the DC's life. Ther flagship Sonic game is rushed and buggy as hell, their marketing campaign is weak, they use a disc format that no one os familiar with and easy to pirate, and the PS2 was just a much simpler system. No mumbo jumbo, no gimmicks or fancy memory cards. It played games and more importantly DVD's, and it was more powerful too.

>>1540416
The question is how the actual fuck does Sony get the Playstation1 so right in so many aspects? Did it have anything to do with the fact that they were the least worried about their 'identity' as a brand, allowing them to have the widest variety of titles and genres?

>>1538942
Then it would have REALLY got stomped hard.

>>1541739
What I mean is, Sony established the Playstation name as the 'standard' console to have. Basically it was Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games, Sega consoles for Sega games, Playstation for everything else. Multiplatform titles were just "this different version of the PS1 game".

The only good games on it were arcade ports, which I'm fine with but a lot of people aren't.

>>1541739
Yeah that's about it.

They were a LOT less strict about what games were going on the system, plus the benefits of CDs and it was much easier to make games for than the N64 and Saturn.

>What went wrong?
Not enough good games to pull the audience in.

>>1541739
disk based games. more space for more stages and content, and hardware that can handle them all unlike sega cd

No DVD Player, Bernie Stolar, Peter Moore, a lot of political in fighting, 3rd party support wasn't that strong since they were missing big companies like EA and Square, losing a shit load of money with the Saturn, Sega of America being retarded as usual, forcing online gaming...with a fucking 56K modem connection and over marketing the shit out of it.

Stolar fucked the Saturn by pissing off every single developer in the states and wanting to ban RPGs on the system and make it a "fighting game only" system. That momentum fucked up SEGA and it affected the Dreamcast.

The online gaming thing actually confused a lot of fucking rednecks since they thought the system was 56 bits, because if you entered a EB or any other place and you see a big "56K MODEM INCLUDED" sticker they say "oh 56 bit system." They can't fucking READ. A ton of fucking gay moustached rednecks in Southern Ontario and fucking Alberta, and all of the fucking hick states couldn't fucking red worth shit. They were all a fucking bunch of illiterate bible thumping redneck hicks and niggers. They were confused as shit cause of all of the faggoty incest.

The piracy was bad too. They relied on the GD-Rom and thinking cut content on the CD-Rom pirated games would be enough to make people buy the game instead of pirating it. Thing is, most games were using 600 MB or less, instead of 1 GB, so lots of full games fit on CD-Roms as well. If they had the DVD player, piracy wouldn't have been as rampant until maybe around 2003 since more DVD burners would have been readily available. Sure, piracy was around on the PSX and PS2, but that required mod chips and only a few places were offering that service and there was a risk of fucking up the system.

>dat first gen dc
>dat ability to just flat BURN any game and pop it in
>yeah theres a really good reason this thing didnt do well.

>>1541779

I forgot that they pissed off retailers as well like KB Toys. Forgot the reasons behind it, but it was SEGA being retarded.

>>1541739
The original Playstation succeeded because it didn't have any bullshit.

-Cheap games
-Easy development process
-Large variety
-Conservative controller design

Saturn, N64 and Dreamcast had all sorts of crazy shit. People just want to play games dammit.

>>1538971
>And soon after that they released the 32x
If by "soon after" you mean 2-3 years after depending on the region, then yeah, sure.

>>1541748
Probably the biggest reason it was so successful is that Sony really didn't have any competition that generation. Their so-called competitors were the Nintendo 64 and the Sega Saturn. Now, the Sega Saturn was a fucking disaster is numerous ways. And the N64 was massively delayed AND when it did come out, it did not have many games. So people wanted this new 3d experience, and the old dogs were going wrong in horrible ways, which left the Playstation as the only serious consideration.

Was piracy as rampant as people keep saying here, in the beginning? I remember when the DC first came out, very, very few people had CD burners. By the time they became popular, I'm pretty sure the DC was already pretty much dead.

>>1541782
They launched the Saturn super early and then they had it be exclusive to a few stores. KB wasn't one of them.

>>1541792

In Toronto, it was. The Chinese malls that were selling pirated everything was selling pirated Dreamcast games to people who didn't have access to a CD Burner for like $10 Canadian. I suspect it happened in Chinatown in San Francisco, Vancouver, and other China town areas with piracy in North America and Europe.

>>1541796

Fucking Stolar. It's even more suspicious when you consider he used to be at Sony.

>>1541797
Ha! Pacific Mall, where everything fell off the back of a truck. Great arcade, though.

>>1541779

>The online gaming thing actually confused a lot of fucking rednecks since they thought the system was 56 bits, because if you entered a EB or any other place and you see a big "56K MODEM INCLUDED" sticker they say "oh 56 bit system." They can't fucking READ. A ton of fucking gay moustached rednecks in Southern Ontario and fucking Alberta, and all of the fucking hick states couldn't fucking red worth shit. They were all a fucking bunch of illiterate bible thumping redneck hicks and niggers. They were confused as shit cause of all of the faggoty incest.

what are you on about

>>1541062

>PS2 and PS3
>2D systems

Care to elaborate?

>>1541808

The EB Games I had imported a Japanese Dreamcast and had the boxes on display. There was pink stickers on it saying "56K Modem Included!" I'm not joking when I say the fucking rednecks who went into the store said "How many bits does this system have? Oh 56." They confused 56K Modem for 56 Bits (which doesn't even exist). The 128-Bit stickers were on the OTHER SIDE of the box, but they were against a wall and hidden. The EB Games here didn't bother to put both stickers on one side of the box. So that confused the fucking hicks. They thought it was less powerful than a N64, cause of "MUH BITS"

>>1541805

And where the bathroom floors are covered in piss.

Used to be a great arcade. Playdium fucked it.

>>1538904
Nothing. It was still a fairly successful console (just not successful enough to keep Sega in the home hardware biz).

It was cheap, it had some great games, and it still has a rabid fanbase. Its arcade derivatives are rivaled only by the Neo-Geo MVS in terms of longevity.

>>1538904
>lack of a DVD player
Do people really believe this? The PS2

>>1538904
>>1538904
>lack of a DVD player
Do people still really believe this? The PS2 didn't succeed just because of the DVD player. Sure, it helped, but the main drive behind it was the sheer amount of games combined with how weak the Gamecube's and Xbox's libraries were. Even the Wii had record breaking sales up until Nintendo decided to take a gigantic shit on it and it never had DVD playback unless you softmodded it.

There are plenty of reasons why the Dreamcast died, almost all of which are already mentioned in the thread. Chalking it up to "no DVD player" isn't just wrong, it's absolute ignorance.

>>1542602
>The PS2 didn't succeed just because of the DVD player.

>>1542602
PS2 had one of the worst line up ever.

A lot of the points I experienced were already stated:

-The DC came in on the heels of the Saturn which left a bad taste in consumer's mouths. It was barely out for two years before it got strangled to death for the DC. Sega was already on a lot of gamer's shitlists for their hardware antics (the few 32X buyers were still bitter at the time).
-There was no backwards compatiblity with previous systems.
-Sega was burning money by the bonfire to produce epic game series that nobody gave a shit about. They literally spent millions developing Shenmue and other series that were meant to stretch across multiple games, then didn't bother to set aside a few bucks for marketing. The games would have had to have sold spectacularly for Sega to make a profit.

-Piracy wasn't an issue until the system was already dying. Even in the early 00's, CD burners that weren't coaster factories were still in the $150 range, and with media still costing more than $1/disc, it was well out of range of gamer's budget.

-There was a notable lack of third party support outside of a few quirky games or JRPGs.

Nintendo wasn't much competition at the time. They were too busy burning bridges with the N64 on development struggles and cartridge costs. They really didn't want to admit that they were wrong about cartridges at the time.

Sony gained a strong momentum with the PS1 and with the PS2 being backwards compatible, all they had to do was ride it.

>>1538914

>The spoiler

This is what lunatics actually believe.

>>1542623

>PS2 had one of the worst line up ever

>>1538914
At the time, being on CD was practically its own form of copy protection. Burners were not a commodity at that point; you either had to have an employer that had burners or blow series cash for a drive (and you had to perform serious voodoo shit to get a good burn with one of those). Nobody expected the price of burners and media to crater the way they did, but by the time that happened, the DC was already on its way out.

Basically, Sony bought all the 3rd party support, leaving Nintendo and Sega to fend for themselves. This wasn't as much of a problem for Nintendo because they had huge IPs such as Mario that would move consoles. They also had Rare, whose games rivaled that of Nintendo.

Sega, on the other hand, only had Sonic and a bunch of arcade ports to move their hardware. Sonic, a franchise that hadn't seen a quality release since the Genesis, and arcade ports during a time when gamers were wanting deeper and more complex experiences.

Interactive movies and simulators were the future, not 2d shooters, arcade racers and shallow kiddie platformers.

Sony knew this, and they sold the gamer the idea that their console was the place to play those types of games. This image stirred up a lot of hype for the PS2, and the DVD player only added to it.

>>1542716
At launch, it did.

>>1542716
The PS2 really didn't have a whole lot going for it out of the gate outside of its backwards compatibility and DVD playback.
Sony was trying to help hype launch titles like The Bouncer to help get it off the ground.

>>1542745
PS2 had Madden at launch. That alone was more than enough to turn heads. Had EA and Sega not had a shaky relationship after the Saturn I think the Dreamcast would have been a strong contender in the 6th generation.

>>1538904
>>1538904
>What went wrong?

After the success of the Genesis,

The Sega CD came out and people paid a crapload for it, and it failed and very few good games were released, and early adopters were burned

Then the 32X was released, few people bought it and it failed and very few games were released, and whoever bought it got burned on SEGA

Then the Saturn was released, people paid for it but it failed and there were very few games made for it, and whoever bought it got burned again.

I lived during that time, I was over 15 and I remember by the time the Dreamcast was developed way too many people had been burned way too many times by Sega

Why would you buy a Dreamcast if the people who had bought a playstation 1 had gotten a diverse library of games and full support for years and years, and the Playstation 2 was coming and it was likely that you weren't going to get burned like you did with Sega systems?

People were tired of getting fucked by Sega who couldn't make up its mind if it wanted to support the Saturn, 32x, or whatever fucking system it was messing with at the time. It killed their credibility.

Yes the Dreamcast was a solid system but by then nobody believed in Sega.

Any time you want to cry for the Dreamcast and Sega just remember how many times it fucked its customer base. I got a Sega CD for $300 fucking dollars and when it didn't deliver anything besides Sonic CD I literally said never again, never again.

>>1542743
It had Tekken Tag and motherfucking TimeSplitters. That's two amazing games worth the purchase right there. Additionally, DOA2, Midnight Club, and Dynasty Warriors 2 weren't too shabby.

>>1540258
If all they wanted was to make or have unique games in their vision, why didn't they just make them for someone elses console? Why dedicate an entire machine to it? Unless I'm misunderstanding something.

>>1539272
This fucker.

Sony and Friends making cheap ass CD burners to destroy the market.

Peter Moore basically sabotaging SEGA so he can go jump ship to his Microsoft overlords.

Who in turn would end up making the Dreamcast 2 (aka the original Xbox).

Look at the controller and basically had sequel or re-releases of SEGA's classics.

It was like the whole Nintendo CD thing with Sony all over again, except Nintendo didn't get ripped as hard.

>>1541815
You sound like a fucking retard. It's ironic you're making fun of others.

>>1542782
Snatcher was a pretty good Sega CD game, but I don't think anyone, except the most hardcore for Konami bought it at the time of its release until the internet spread the word

>>1542835
Yeah it was good but the good games were few and far between

Definitely the worst system I ever got

>>1542817
>Sony and Friends making cheap ass CD burners to destroy the market.
You might recall that Sony had it's own problems with piracy, with both the PS1 and PS2.

>>1542841
Afforementioned Sonic CD and Snatcher, alongside Lunar 1 and 2, Shining Force CD, Robo Aleste, Sol-Feace, Dark Wizard, Rise of the Dragon, Dune, Lords of Thunder, the best versions of Earthworm Jim and Final Fight... I'd say it was sure as hell a better investment than, say, the 32X.

>>1542842
"It's" is a contraction of "it is"
"Its" is the possessive of "it"

>>1542861
Oh yes the 32x... sure Knuckles Chaotix looked neat but I could smell that turd from a mile away

Am I glad I dodged that fucking bullet

Like I said from the Sega CD on I avoided Sega like the plague and I couldn't be the only one.

>>1542861
It also has the best version of The Amazing Spider-Man vs. The Kingpin. One of the best Spider-Man games ever made.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53A7l9VDIro

>>1542887
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53A7l9VDIro

that is a lot of punching people in the nuts to beat them

>>1542672
To be fair, Capcom gave the Dreamcast a ton of support.

>>1542825

A bunch of rednecks who can't read and incorrectly assume a system is 56-bit, who wouldn't buy the system just because they can't fucking properly read a sticker with big font? How the fuck does that make me retarded? Their illiterate bullshit had a negative effect on system sales, so I'm making fun of them.

>>1542981
It would have been nice to have Jojo with all the added options the PS version got. .

>>1543082
I think you're REAAAAAAALLY stretching that.

>>1542771
>Had EA and Sega not had a shaky relationship after the Saturn I think the Dreamcast would have been a strong contender in the 6th generation.

Funny anecdote about that. The presidents of SOA and EA were both pals at the time. The SOA president (I think it was Bernie Stolar at the time) bought a new company to make sports games for the DC because it was lacking in that area, and he also sat down with the EA president to ask him about releasing their sports games on the DC. Dude said ok, but only if they get complete exclusivity for sports titles on the machine. SOA president said okay, but he just bought this company that makes sports games, they'll be their only competition. EA president said no, SOA president said something among the lines of "well I guess we won't be making a deal then".

Translation: if EA released stuff on the DC, it would've been piss poor, fifth-rate shovelware ports of the games they were originally developing for other machines. Meaning, PS2 would get stuff like that jaw-dropping Fifa game, while DC games would've looked like antialiased Playstation 1 ports.

>>1543092
But they got plenty of other games from Capcom, though, not just Jojo.

>>1543110
I know. I have most of them. I just wish that version wasn't gimped for the sake of giving more incentive to get the PS1 version.

>DVD Playback
Little influence. Do you remember many people using their PS2s as DVD players back in 2001 to 2003? I remember very few. By the way the PS3's BD playback was MUCH more influential, but that's another story.

>Easy to pirate
Little influence. When piracy affects consumer preference it actually boost console sales, but the developers and publishers are obviously scared of piracy.

>Lack of EA Sports games
Strong influence. Dudebros inflate console sales numbers.

>Lack of Squaresoft's interest, very few RPGs
Strong influence. RPGs were in extremely high demand (relatively speaking) especially in Japan. People were wetting their underwear for FF X.

>Consumer distrust
Strong influence. The Saturn had poor performance outside of Japan.

>Competition
EXTREMELY influential. The PS1 was a massive success and everyone was very anxious about the PS2. The GameCube and the Xbox helped take the spotlight away from SEGA.

>Lack of oomph
The DC was SEGA's last shot. Consumers weren't very impressed with it. There was very little interest for SEGA, again, largely thanks to the Saturn performance. It had good exclusives, but it would need a serious killer game to attract attention. Maybe if Final Fantasy X or Metal Gear Solid 2 were DC exclusives for a few years the story could be totally different, and the Xbox would have died instead...

>>1543150
>Do you remember many people using their PS2s as DVD players back in 2001 to 2003?

Shitloads. DVD players were pricey back then.

>>1543150
>Do you remember many people using their PS2s as DVD players back in 2001 to 2003?
Yes. The entire reason that I even had a PS2 in my house was because my parents wanted a DVD player.

>>1538904
I don't think anything was technically wrong with the system. It was spec'd well for the time of its release and competitive for many years.

The GDRom may seem in retrospect a little small; but that didn't stop the Gamecube.

I blame everything entirely on Sega HQ. No other factor had nearly as great a detriment on the life of the system as their executive's decisions and inability to capitalize on the US market.

>>1543150
>Little influence. Do you remember many people using their PS2s as DVD players back in 2001 to 2003? I remember very few. By the way the PS3's BD playback was MUCH more influential, but that's another story.

You got that backwards. The PS2 had a HUGE influence on the DVD market. Affordable, high quality DVD player was a big selling point to people who didn't even play games.

PS3 wasn't much of an influence for Blu-Ray from what I remember. At the time, people weren't impressed with Blu-Ray, especially when you needed to buy a new TV to fully take advantage of it. The format war with HD-DVD made a big cloud of uncertainty as well. It was only when Warner Bros. dumped HD-DVD and went to Blu-Ray that it became a big factor. Plus, Avatar on Blu-Ray gave people a reason to upgrade to Blu-Ray, because of the superior visual quality of Blu-Ray was being utilized more, plus the prices of HDTVs went down as well.

>>1543367
Not during launch, but later. I've seen A LOT of people buying PS3s for BD playback between 2008 and 2010.

>Not during launch, but later

True, I'm one of those guys.

>>1543150
>Do you remember many people using their PS2s as DVD players back in 2001 to 2003?
Everybody did this. Standalone DVD players were like $400 to $600.

>>1543367
>>1543376
>>1543380
Forgot to add: the PS2 was just a catalyzer for DVDs. Coming from the VHS era and with VCDs having very little significance, there's no way it wouldn't catch on. It was better than tapes in every way. It was a guaranteed success.

But with BDs, there was uncertainty about their usefulness, because of HD-DVDs, DVDs and now Netflix and other digital media providers.

>>1542825
No I don't recall. I do however remember seeing bootlegs being sold. Are you telling me they were also just using writable discs?

I think the system itself had some major problems that would have affected it in the future:

>No DVD Player
GD-ROMs could only hold 1.2GB of data whereas DVD-ROMs could hold 4.5-8.5GB. The Gamecube used slightly higher capacity 1.5GB mini disks and even those were causing problems for developers later on. Not to mention DVD playback was a huge selling point for the competition.

>No second analogue stick
I know this could have been fixed down the road with a controller revision, but no one likes being forced to buy something new. Sega customers already had enough bad experience with hardware addons and updates. Without a second analog stick the Dreamcast would be stuck with the PSP's control limitations.

>Low specs
The Dreamcast could run fine looking games, but it was weaker than the PS2 which was already a lot weaker than the other consoles.

is there a special trick for burning games?
I have a model 1, but I cannot for the life of me get anything to work in it. well, anything being burned disks, retail games are just fine.

>>1543390

Just because something is better in every way doesn't guarantee success. I mean you had Betamax and that didn't catch on. The PS2 just made it more readily available and affordable for all after the first PS2 price drop.

>>1543405
>I know this could have been fixed down the road with a controller revision, but no one likes being forced to buy something new.

Sony's done it for 2 of the 4 generations they've been in thus far.

>Low specs

Specs have rarely been the determining factor in the success of a console.

>>1543408
Betamax wasn't better in every way though. VHS was a open standard, it had higher capacity and was cheaper. DVDs were literally better in every way however.

>The PS2 just made it more readily available and affordable for all after the first PS2 price drop.
That's what I said, it was only a speed up. The DVD success was practically inevitable.

>>1543408
No, but in the US, being a DVD player was a huge selling point. I don't know about other countries, but VCD/SVCD never caught on. A lot of adults wanted players since it was a huge leap over VHS in terms of A\V quality. Getting a DVD player that made the kids happy was just a plus.

>>1543413
>Sony's done it for 2 of the 4 generations they've been in thus far.
The Dual Shock was only required for like 1 or 2 games. The Dual Shock 3 just added rumble.

>Specs have rarely been the determining factor in the success of a console.
The Dreamcast was never going to outsell the PS2. A lot of thirdparty games looked/ran like shit on the PS2 but developers put up with it because it was the king. Developers might not want to spend time downporting a game to a system with a much smaller install base.

>>1538987
Yes - but he also was responsible for the Dreamcast launch being a resounding success.

But that couldn't make up for Sega's past blunders.

>>1543431
That...doesn't refute either of my claims.

>>1543150
>and the Xbox would have died instead...
Had the Dreamcast succeeded, the GameCube was the next one in line to die. SEGA only tried to save face with the Xbox, Microsoft didn't really need the help to kickstart their console.
Nintendo, on the other hand, released a system no one wanted with no games, Halo alone sold more than all the Nintendo first-party games combined on the first three years of the Gamecube.

>>1543642
Huh, that's sure something, considering Smash Bros sold more than Halo 1, and was only slightly behind Halo 2.

Almost sounds like you're fucking lying through your teeth.

>>1541809
Not sure if this is true for PS3, but the PS2 doesn't actually simulate a 3D environment. It just warps and stretches polygons around on a 2D plane so it looks 3D. Makes it really hard to rip models from the system. I think the PlayStation was like this, too.

>>1543727
I don't think that is true. I don't think that is true at all.

>>1543727
>It just warps and stretches polygons around on a 2D plane so it looks 3D.
It is called rasterisation, and every modern 3D system does it to display 3D images on a 2D screen, be it a TV set or a computer monitor.

It was too video game-y for its time

People over-estimate the importance of DVD playback, because it's basically a thought terminating cliche.

-Very few PS2s were sold at the time when the console was considered good value for a DVD player. DVD player price collapsed towards the end of 2001.

-Sega actually set up a deal where people could buy a Dreamcast and a DVD player for only slightly more than a PS2

-For most games the DVD capacity was not justified for a long time

-Only fat neckbeards would have a problem with changing disks

>>1543773
>DVD player price collapsed towards the end of 2001.
It collapsed after the PS2 came on the market because who the fuck was going to pay $600 for a box that just played DVDs when you could pay $300 for a box that played DVDs and also Madden?

>For most games the DVD capacity was not justified for a long time
The PS2 didn't have fuckall of PS2 titles for it's entire first year that are even worth remembering, except the Bouncer for how laughably bad it was. The hype factor combined with people's earned distrust of Sega was enough to have Sega finish 2001 behind a shady dairy company that poisoned children.

>Only fat neckbeards would have a problem with changing disks
Having fun with this argument no one was making? It's a good one.

>>1543791
Timesplitters was really good, and if you liked RPGs, Summoner was also great.

And the Bouncer was very fun. You ever play that 4 player using the multitap? Clearly not or you wouldn't call it a bad game.

Boy it sure as fuck is RETRO GAMES in here.

>>1543773
>Very few PS2s were sold at the time when the console was considered good value for a DVD player. DVD player price collapsed towards the end of 2001.

OH WOW NO. Sony had a notoriously large shortage of PS2s up until the 30001 models (October 2001) so you're telling me they didn't sell well for over a YEAR release? first year and a half of release, the PS2 didn't sell well? WTF are you smoking?

>Sega actually set up a deal where people could buy a Dreamcast and a DVD player for only slightly more than a PS2

I'm going to need a source on that one, because I've never heard of that deal.

>>1543791
Wasn't SSX a launch title?

I owned both a Dreamcast and PS2 and bought both the week they came out.

IMO this controller is balls. The stick has to go completely sideways to reach maximum input. The gamepad has FIVE fewer buttons and one less analog stick than the PS1 Dual Shock. The dpad is sloppy and swims in it's housing. I see everyone fighting for Saturn controllers to play 2D games and no one gives a fuck about this one, and they shouldn't.

The GD-Rom drive was also fucking loud, the drive was way louder than the PS1, PS2, Xbox, or Gamecube.

However... graphically it was vastly superior to PS2 titles in it's lifespan. DOA2 on DC is double the resolution of the PS2 version, and even the latest and greatest PS2 titles are blurry and low res compared to basically any DC title.

>>1543773
>Very few PS2s were sold at the time when the console was considered good value for a DVD player. DVD player price collapsed towards the end of 2001.

So you're telling me that between its launch (Mar 4, 2000) and the end of 2001, the PS2 didn't sell well? WTF are you smoking?

OH WOW NO. Sony had a notoriously large shortage of PS2s up until the 30001 models (October 2001). They were consistently selling out.

>Sega actually set up a deal where people could buy a Dreamcast and a DVD player for only slightly more than a PS2

I'm going to need a source on that one, because I've never heard of that deal.

>>1543810
I'm talking about the period between launch and before holiday 2001. It sold several million, but nothing compared to the demand for DVD at the time.

http://www.segarevolution.co.uk/news/dreamcast-dvd

Enjoy your delusions about the PS2 success. It succeeded due to having less quirky shit that people ran away from on the Dreamcast

>>1543832
> It sold several million, but nothing compared to the demand for DVD at the time

OH, now you change the argument from "very few PS2s were sold" to "but nothing compared to the demand for DVD". IT didn't even meet demand for the PS2 itself because it was constantly sold out. Your brain is on backwards or something if you don't understand that.

>Enjoy your delusions about the PS2 success.

This is seriously the most retarded thing I've ever heard here. It's the best selling console of all-time.

>>1543832
>Sega actually set up a deal where people could buy a Dreamcast and a DVD player for only slightly more than a PS2

You mean a UK-only deal with an outside distributor. Well, that sure helped them worldwide....

>>1543832
>http://www.segarevolution.co.uk/news/dreamcast-dvd

UK bullshit deal, not even NTSC.
move along...

>>1543845
The claim was that the PS2 had either a big impact on DVD or rided on the coat tails of DVD. It did neither because DVD playback was only important to a small number of early adopters.

Dreamcast supporters tend to have delusions about the PS2 success. They can't see anything the PS2 did better in 2000/2001 so they claim
>muh DVD made Dreamcast fail

>>1543854
>because DVD playback was only important to a small number of early adopters

I...question this wholeheartedly. I even remember DVDs being sold with the "compatible with Playstation 2" sticker on them.

Much like the PS3 and Blu-Ray, the PS2 helped kick DVD movies into the mainstream. It's just too bad PS2 was a shit DVD player.

>>1543854
>They can't see anything the PS2 did better in 2000/2001 so they claim
Sony didn't have 7 years of colossal market failures and product abandonment.

In their own home turf, Japan, where no non-Japanese console has ever been profitable, Sega finished behind a company that poisoned children. How's that for something Sony did better? They were liked more than a company that poisoned children.

Are there any good "normal" controllers for the Dreamcast? I've seen things like the ASCII Pad and Angel stick, but those are novelty controllers, I just want something for the Dreamcast that...Doesn't suck? The standard is such an unfun controller.

>>1543863
>I even remember DVDs being sold with the "compatible with Playstation 2" sticker on them.

1) Sony is a big-time member of the DVD Forum. They could offer lower royalty rates if you advertise the PS2 on your DVD.

2) Sony Pictures releases a lot of movies themselves.

>Much like the PS3 and Blu-Ray

Blu-Ray still isn't mainstream.

>PS2 helped kick DVD movies into the mainstream

The large bulk of PS2 consoles were sold in 2003-2004, by that time you could buy a DVD player for like $30.

>>1543868
>Sega finished behind a company that poisoned children. How's that for something Sony did better? They were liked more than a company that poisoned children.

A company that poisoned children? Can you please explain that?

>>1543854
You mean the DC didn't fail and the Ps2 wasn't a sucess? Why are you such a faggot?

Everyone knows that the lineup of launch ps2 games was terrible, it still consistently sold out.
I'm too old for this.

>>1543863
>It's just too bad PS2 was a shit DVD player.

Why?

I'm starting to get annoyed of using my PS3 for blu-ray, it's so loud.

>>1543868
I was a diehard Sega fanboy who LOVED the generation of gaming that Sega brought us with Saturn and DC, and even *I* know that's true.

They made too many fuck ups, and got to a point where they couldn't pick themselves back up, no matter what they did.

>>1543872
Look at this graph.
>>1538934
In 2001 Sega finished lower on the Japanese stock market than a dirty diary company that made kids sick.

What this graph doesn't show is the huge stretch of 2001 where Sega basically cut $200 off the price of the Dreamcast and put up banners everywhere that said PLEASE BUY A DREAMCAST PLEASE WE'LL SUCK YOUR DICK and still nobody bought one.

>>1543873
>Everyone knows that the lineup of launch ps2 games was terrible
Yes, it was terrible, and still pound the Dreamcast into the ground.

It sure says something about the appeal of the Dreamcast doesn't it?

Mainstream people were almost surely scared away by the controller, the VMU gimmicks, and the quirky overly-Japanese games (Jet Grind/Set Radio, Shenmue, etc).

>>1543891
I kind of agree, except for the controller.
Isn't the original xbox based off the DC controller?


And yeah, we all know the DC was a failure, stop being a jerk, ,man.

>>1538904
>Was it really just the lack of a DVD player?
Lack of money and 3rd party devs support.

>>1543891
That's why it had such an incredible launch, right?

>>1543896
>Isn't the original xbox based off the DC controller?

Yes, and the sales for the original Xbox were utterly embarrassing at first. Like worse than Dreamcast.

Things didn't pick up for the console until Microsoft started selling it at an EXTREME loss, bundled tons of free games, and redesigned the controller.

>>1543902
>That's why it had such an incredible launch, right?
That's because at launch the graphical superiority of the console over its competition was utterly undeniable.

Also, plenty of Sega fans who avoided the Saturn finally had an excuse to pay up.

>>1542789
because that's how things worked, back then. Sega used to be a hardware manufacturer, and it took the failure of the DC to really convince them otherwise.

and, if you look at it, that's how Nintendo is still doing it. they aren't trying to be multimedia boxes, like Xbone and PS4. Nintendo makes unique hardware, and then unique games that will only run on that hardware.

granted, that means that it is almost impossible to port a game over to a Nintendo system, but their first-party games are so incredible that their fans don't care. Sega, sadly, don't have Nintendo's game designers. they tried, but it wasn't enough.

>>1543912
No. It's because it had a lineup on incredible launch games.

Now loading...

>>1543905
Microsoft threw so much money at the Xbox it probably made Sega executives impotent with shame. They even funded one of the Mortal Kombat guys to make a fucking terrible Tekken clone who's claim to fame is that it had a 'spin around a stripper pole' button.

Now loading...

Meanwhile everyone just bought a PS2 even though it didn't have any games and it's 0.97x prototype single laser dvd drive was even slower than the GD-Rom in the Dreamcast, let alone the 4x and 6x dvd drives in the Xbox and Gamecube.

Now loading...

It's actually a tossup which system was designed specifically to cause developers brain aneurysms more: Jaguar, Saturn, or PS2. All three are just godawful designs.

Now loading...

>>1543936
Well it did too. I'll give it that.

>>1542716
But it had.

>>1542716
I honestly didn't care for anything other than TTT, Ridge Racer V, and SW Starfighter. That's just personal opinion, though.

What really made me look back into the Dreamcast after not paying much attention to it as a kid except for Shenmue and CT was all the Yuyuko's that people started drawing on their old ones. If I get one I'm probably going to do that right after I buy Shenmue and play it again.

>>1543150
>Do you remember many people using their PS2s as DVD players back in 2001 to 2003?

I knew at least two families that didn't even know their PS2's could even play games.

>>1545136
Should've told them it was a premium service to allow them to do that and charged them for you to activate its game playing capabilities.

>>1545142
I'm not a Geek Squad employee.

After the Saturn most people wanted to hold on for the PS2. That's how I remember it anyway.

>>1545136

What the fuck did they think the controller was, some kind of special remote?

>>1543896
>Isn't the original xbox based off the DC controller?
Based on it but they fixed a lot of the issues with the Dreamcasts controller. Everyone still thought it was terrible though.

The Saturn controller just seems out dated, it was like sometime from the previous generation. It even had less buttons than any controller of the previous generation. There's also a reason every other console since (wii aside) went with the dual analog sticks.

>>1543701
In the first three years being a keyword here. They eventually came to common ground around the same time RE4 came out. Nintendo games tend to sell more over time.

>>1543884
>look at this graph
I can't see shit and you still throw a way MUH POISONED CHILDRUN

What went wrong? The Sega Saturn.

Compared to the Nintendo 64 and Sony Playstation, the games on Saturn just weren't happening. This led gamers to distrust Sega. Plus, everyone knew that Sony and Nintendo had bigger plans at the time (PS2, Gamecube), so they skipped the Dreamcast.

The Dreamcast was MUCH better than the Saturn, but still lacked an awesome library of games compared to other consoles. It had Soul Calibur, Skies of Arcadia and a few other great games, but many of its bigger titles were considered mediocre by a large percentage of gamers. Not everyone liked Sonic Adventure or Shenmue.

In my opinion, the Dreamcast was a very good console, and I really liked it. It just wasn't a great console like the PSone or Nintendo 64, and since players distrusted Sega after the Saturn, they skipped it to wait for the PS2 and Gamecube.

>>1538957
The Dreamcast was far better at handling textures than the PS2, and had differed rendering.

>>1538982

Sadly, most games did not make much proper use of the MCD.

Batman Returns (awesome driving stages)
Thunderhawk (brilliant use of scaling, rotation, on multiple planes)
Battlecorps
Jaguar XJ (fun driving game with cool track editor)
Sonic CD

Sega could have easily ported their arcade games to Mega CD and made a mint.

>>1541585
If the PS2 was more powerful, why did it condemn a generation to blurry textures?

Why do PS2 games have that washed out, N64 feel to them?

>>1543809
DC pad should have been based on the Saturn pad.

>>1548678
PS2 can't texture for shit. However, it is really very much better at polygons than the Dreamcast. In fact, in the polygon stakes it's very close to the newer Gamecube and Xbox technology.

if this is as powerful as a ps2 how come i can emulate it on android right now?

>>1543150
>Do you remember many people using their PS2s as DVD players back in 2001 to 2003?
my dad got one when him and my mom split up in 2001 so we'd want to spend more time at his house
it was our primary dvd player for 3 years

>>1548678
>>1548683
PS2 was a generation ahead of the DC, it had fully programmable vector units and pixel pipelines while DC had just a (very advanced, top of the line) texturizer but still did transforms in software.

The reason why the early PS2 games were blurry was because the machine had a production bug in the hardware AA (it didn't work), and because the architecture was radically different and required different thinking to get good result. And the PS2 performance analyzers only became available midway into the generation.

The thing with the PS2 having low res was that you had to use a larger framebuffer size in VRAM which left little if any space for textures. Most coders just used a smaller framebuffer so they could push everything into VRAM and have games work as they do on a traditional system.
The trick was that the RAM and the VRAM was so ridiculously goddamn fast that you could load textures from normal RAM on a per-polygon basis; you had to partition the VRAM into huge framebuffer and a "texture cache" so to speak.

This was more work programming wise, and it was the necessary way to get higher resolutions and bigger textures working faster.

>>1546806
No man, it's not that the Dreamcast had bad games. It's just that Sega as a company was never willing to let go of their uniqueness, which cost them relevancy.
The Dreamcast was labelled pretty much as "that other console that plays weird games". It was not the standard model of what a console meant, by any means. If the PS1/later PS2 was your mother, the Dreamcast was the equivalent of that uncle who lives in a country far away who you barely ever see.
And Nintendo was just the same, but only with a difference: they capitalized on their mascots and made them popular, to a point where you don't need to create original games with different characters anymore.
The Playstation became the go-to console, because they had everything available to them. The Dreamcast was a niche, with mainly Sega supervised titles. It had no chance from the start, considering at the time it was very uncommon to have two different consoles at home.

Slightly unrelated, but is $35 for a Dreamcast keyboard a good deal?

>>1548905
NOPE
You can get them for $5 in box.
Unless you're referring to a keyboard bundled with a Dreamcast console, then it's a fair price.

>>1548906
I live in Canada and the cheapest DC keyboard (standalone, no mouse or actual Dreamcast) is like $40 on ebay Canada

>>1543405
>The Dreamcast could run fine looking games, but it was weaker than the PS2 which was already a lot weaker than the other consoles.

That's not fair to say. They excelled in different things. For example, the DC had better shader and anti-aliasing support. Clock speeds aren't everything

>>1548681
Shit yes, this. The NiGHTS controller, but this time without that analog->d-pad switch thing. Comfy fucking controller too.

>>1548896
>PS2 was a generation ahead of the DC, it had fully programmable vector units and pixel pipelines
PS2 didn't have fully programmable pixel pipelines or anything like that.

FYI the N64 had fully programmable vertex rendering as well.

>>1548910
>DC had better shader
Not really. All it had from memory was a hard-wired bump mapping feature.

>>1548909
Don't you guys have some classified ads websites?
I can find a lot of those in my country for 7-8€ easily, I reckon you can too with a bit of searching.

I don't think I could see something like Silent Hill 3 running on the Dreamcast.

>>1546806
This. Pretty great description of why I didn't buy a Dreamcast back in the day. It had a couple games that interested me, but I knew Sony's new console was just around the corner.

The Saturn killed the Dreamcast

>>1548971
Dreamcast can show you a black screen. Thanks.

>>1548992
Whatever nigga

>>1543884
>PLEASE BUY A DREAMCAST PLEASE WE'LL SUCK YOUR DICK and still nobody bought one.

But people did bought one given the fact that the Dreamcast sold more units then the Vita and Wii U had done in the same lifespan.

Also, the Sega CD had nothing to do with Sega's failure. I wish people would stop repeating that myth, the sega cd came out in 1990, thats 5 years before the Sega saturn arrived in America.

The real reason for Sega's failure was the Saturn, it may have done better in Japan, but the fact that the American CEO of sega killed off the Saturn two whole years before the dreamcast, ensuring that Sega got almost no money during that period of time from their home consoles sure didn't help.

>>1542731
False. Maybe true for the PSX in 1995 era but not for 1999.

>>1550093
That very same CEO also ensured that the Dreamcast's launch was the success it was.

>>1540289
You guys do know that financially Gamecube was more successful, right? All those first party titles made more profit than third party shit on PS2 for Sony.

>>1550093
It was roughly 1 1/2 years before the Dreamcast, actually.

And no, The Saturn didn't fail because the CEO killed it off. It's the other way 'round. The CEO canned it because it was failing.

Nintendo had a chance to save the industry. They could've bought Sega and Rare. But no, they instead decided to spend their time and money on researching ways to take advantage of clueless casuals. Now look at them. Where are the casuals now, you dumb fucks?

>>1552626
Today's casuals grow up to become tomorrow's enthusiasts. That's what Nintendo started with the NES.

>>1552636
I don't believe that. I was never a casual. I was always more interested in video games than anyone I knew. I was in it for the challenge, not to play with cutesy characters. Casuals play for the novelty. Real gamers play for the challenge.

>>1539084

But Shenmue is garbage. It might be fun if you're a hardcore japanophile or you really, really dig the story but what game there actually is isn't very fun. It has a pretty detailed world and some interesting ideas but I personally found it a bore to play. Actually working as a forklift operator and having to stick to a schedule and meet a quota? Fuck you, Shenmue.

>>1552626
>Where are the casuals now, you dumb fucks?
Nintendo abandoned the casuals by dumping support for the Wii. The casuals didn't abandon Nintendo, they are still buying Just Dance in large numbers for Wii. Please don't buy into the NeoGAF version of history.

>>1552676
>My personal experiences = everyone else's

Don't do that.

>>1552626
Would Sega games find a market on a Nintendo console, though?

Sega are now not worth buying now as far as Nintendo is concerned, given Sega's output in the West is mostly PC games, and there in-house talent is pretty much gone. Why would Nintendo want to buy a publisher? If I were Nintendo I would just pinch talent like Rieko Kodama and Mie Kumagi, and leave Sega to rot.

>>1552802
>But Shenmue is garbage

I'd fight you irl.

>>1553193
Don't talk shit about Shenmue

>>1553193

And you'd lose. It's shit. Deal with it.

>>1553952
So I'm not that guy, but for all you know, you're talking to Mike Tyson right now.

Assumption of victory makes you look silly.

>>1553959
Oh my god now that voice is in my head. "Ah fuck you up, boy. U think u can talk shit 'bout Shenmue around here?"

>>1552609
That's because Sony caused everyone's licensing fee to drop bellow $5 per game. It used to be double that and that was before inflation brought down the value of the dollar. They've effectively made in not profitable to sell hardware at a loss. And Nintendo does not sell their shit at a loss. Therefore they made a hell of a lot more money.

>>1552626
They already owned Rare. Rare produced shit titles like Starfox Adventures, so they sold them off and Microsoft was stupid enough to buy them. Since then they produced shit like Perfect Dark Zero.

And Sega refused to sell to everyone. Microsoft was willing to buy them out, but Sega wasn't interested in selling and MS was trying too hard to play nice with everyone instead of using their buy power to seize control. With their money they could have consumed Sega, SNK, Namco, Tecmo, Capcom and a number of other developers that came into financial debt over the last decade.

>>1553952
Shenmue is not a commercial game. The concept and budget is shit for what it was trying to be, but for an entertainment piece for the intellectual or appreciative crowd, its amazing. Im really smart and have good taste so i enjoy it heaps by the way.

>>1553959

So does saying you'd fight people irl on the internet, but I digress.

I just really don't think Shenmue is a good game. I'll say this though: it was a game that had to be made.

>>1554290

Is this satire?

>>1554332

It was too expensive to target an, unfortunately, niche crowd. From a companys perspective.

>>1552802
Dude, if Shenmue is garbage, then answer this for me: In what other game can you waste all your time and money on Sega arcade games and gachapon toys?

>>1554417

When the high point of a game is being able to play other games in it that doesn't say much good about the former game, does it? I can play those games many other ways and the toys held no interest for me.

It's not like I can't see the appeal of Shenmue. Indeed, it would be right up my alley if it were more fully realised. Maybe that's why this game bugs me so much; because it may well be a game I love if it were more fleshed out and more fun to actually play.

Quick question to anyone who knows: can I burn Dreamcast games to any old CD-R or is there something more to it?

>>1539165
This right here. Plus the 4-player arcade action games were good times. Spawn, Powerstone and Dead or Alive 2 were our party games.

>>1550093
>the sega cd came out in 1990, thats 5 years before the Sega saturn arrived in America.

Sega CD came out in 1991 in japan, 1992 in America.

It was part of the problem. By the time it got enough momentum (read: sold units) for developers to start caring beyond "cd audio enhanced port" and "fmv game", it was already late 1993, and Sega was introducing the 32x. Which got killed in a year.

Plus they were also killing the Megadrive in its prime.

Then they killed the Saturn after about 2 years in the market (in the USA, anyway).

By the Dreamcast, publishers were fed up with Sega, they didn't want to invest in a has-been company that changes platforms every 1-2 years. Changing platforms meant needing to buy new developer machines (cost multiple tens of thousands of dollars), renewing contracts, licensing fees, etc., on top of the developers needing to get familiar with an entirely new platform so they could port games at all.

So, it took 1 years minimum to see returns from hundred thousand dollar investments (devkits, licensing, developer fees). Nearly as fast as Sega was swapping consoles. See the problem?

>>1548971
>I don't think I could see something like Silent Hill 3 running on the Dreamcast.

And I don't think I saw anything like Illbleed on the Playstation 2.

>>1554446
Game image has to be self-booting and in CDI format, but I think that's all you have to worry about.

>>1554543

So there's no special requirements of the disc other than being a CD-R?

>>1554523
That looks psx-tier but sharper.

>>1554570

The graphics are pretty bad compared to the rest of the DC library, but that game is crazy as shit. Easily one of the most unique games I've ever played.

Eriko is smoking hot. Also, Randy is top fucking tier. Whooooa dude

>>1554567

Depends on the game. Some releases require a 99-minute CD.

Beyond that, any ol' CD-R should work - but if what others tell me is true, the quality of the CD can make a big difference in whether you get a good burn or another nifty coaster for your drinks.

All I know is, the stack of dirt-cheap Memorex I've been using has worked well enough so far.

>>1554417
What is the Yakuza series? Though I like Shenmue a lot too.

>>1554523
I loved that game. Especially the ending after you go around naked (but with a disappointing lack of feet showing) and meet the person who runs the park. Retard Randy was great too. I just watch Brainless Randy Rant whenever I'm feeling Illbleed-y.

Age old question between my friends: Who do you think makes best girl? Eriko (either her personality before or after the true ending) or Michel?

>>1554994
>(but with a disappointing lack of feet showing)

Christ, you people are everywhere, aren't you?

>>1554790

OK, cool. I've got a stack of 50 TDK brand CD-Rs sitting here doing nothing. Looks like my day has just been filled.

>>1555001
We are. Maybe even the people you're closest too.

>>1538904
>A lot of Japanese like games that the general western gamer didn't get into
>PS2 had all this hype surrounding it
>DC came in 99, PS2 in 2000
>games like GTA 3 in 2001
>who wants to play Seaman or Crazy Taxi when you have that
>PS2 could do online also, albeit later, but also free
I don't think the DC did a lot wrong, but rather it's what the PS2 did right.

>>1549925
Not that impressive compared to Shenmue, which was released years before.

>>1538904
What Sega REALLY did wrong was giving up. They bailed on a console twice in a row, and that's what killed them.

>Was it really just the lack of a DVD player?

It may seem odd today, but YES that is the reason.

Back in the day the PS2 was one of the least expensive DVD players on the market.
THat's why I bought my PS2, to play DVDs.

Soon after I bought a highly discounted Dreamcast, for playing games. But of course soon after the DC was discontinued :(.

>>1555602
THIS.

The truth is the Megadrive did not need add-ons, it was doing fine against the SNES. But Sega panicked and gave up instead of fighting it out.

What they should have done with the Mega CD is released the Wondermega as the Megadrive version 2 in say, 1993.

Then, take their time with the Saturn and release that in 1995-6. The whole rushing out of the Saturn and killing of the Megadrive was driven by Sega of Japan's stupidity.

>>1555708
The best thing that those Japs at Sega did was Segata Sanshiro. He died in vein. Segata is probably shitting himself out of fury in Valhalla because of how Sega was running after the Saturn.

>>1555708
Funnily enough it was just the panic of Sega of Japan. When the CD came out the Genesis was still kicking the ass of the SNES in USA.

>>1555846
The Megadrive/Geneis was doing fantastic in America and Europe.

Sega of Japan completely ignored the big picture and were obsessed with the home market. The fact that the MD/Gen had triumphed in the US and Europe showed them up and they couldn't stand it. That's whats weird about that whole period; Sega were doing great but SoJ were behaving like headless chickens.


Sega could have sat on the Megadrive/Genesis (and in Europe, the SMS as well) for years and done nicely, they had plenty of time to plan the Saturn and could have safely released it after the PS1, given Sega's established foothold in the market. Hideki Sato knew his shit, Sega should have given him time to finish the Saturn.

>>1555701
There's a Dreamcast Boombox? One of these days I'm going to get all of the cool little systems even if they're just to look at. Like the Nintoaster and stuff.