/vr/ - Retro Games

It's a great game, but the entire Great Bay Area is really tedious, and I hate how sometimes you just gotta sit around and wait for a certain event. Other than that, no real complaints.

I more or less agree with you, OP. Definitely in my top five Zelda games, and I think it does one of the better jobs of storytelling in video games by steeping its world in atmosphere and letting you devise your own theories on what things mean. I also think it's one of the best examples of a sequel there is. If you weren't aware of the hype of Ocarina of Time when it came out, it was widely publicized as one of the greatest video games of its generation, if not ever. Nintendo could have very easily made "Ocarina of Time 2" which would follow the exact same formula, but they instead made a sequel that was simultaneously wildly different and extremely familiar. It was an extremely wise decision, I thought,

>>1537401

To me OoT and MM are the perfect ying-yang. OoT is just the perfect good vs evil, dungeon adventuring game while MM is the really surreal, more experimental one. I honestly don't think it's more artistic than OoT (I don't think OoT gets enough credit in that regard), just great in a different way

>>1537401
>I think it does one of the better jobs of storytelling in video games by steeping its world in atmosphere and letting you devise your own theories on what things mean

i'd rather someone shitpost and be a complete idiot than be tryhard theory crafter and still be just as stupid

>>1537357
>I didn't bother collecting the fairies because that didn't seem very fun
You missed out on some neat shit, you should go ahead and collect them.
Unless you really hate hunting things down THAT much, then avoid it entirely.

>I was disappointed in Stone Tower
Really? That was my favorite temple, and I absolutely loved Ikana Valley.
This probably has a lot to do with my love of creepy places in vidya though.

>I hated all the stuff about getting to Snowhead
Agreed, fuck the Goron village and everything around it.

>I feel like I'm bitching a lot, but I really loved the game
Genuine gripes backed with reasons, no need to feel like that.
It's not like you're doing some /v/ tier shitposting.

Personally, my absolute favorite part of MM was finding the masks.
There was something about the anticipation of finding out whether or not the next one would be utter shit, or cool beyond measure.

>>1537429
:^)

>>1537357

The fairies in the temples was a cool idea but I don't think it was done amazingly well. They clearly designed the temples in large part to make collecting them difficult and interesting, which means just going straight through the dungeon was a bit unfulfilling.

>tfw watching Link do a flip in the forest at the start of the game

On topic: It's my 4th favourite Zelda game, the dark overtones in the game are my favourite
aspect of it.

>>1537452
The thing i loved the most about ikana valley was the atmosphere, the background story, the war between the garos and the ikanans. It felt really haunting, like you were indeed walking the land of the dead, unlike some shitty dark temple with spooky skeletons.

>>1537489
What are your first 3?

>>1537491
You nailed the description perfectly I think.
I found that whole area FAR superior to the shadow temple in OoT, though the shadow temple was pretty neat on its own.

I don't think the game is as dark as people say. To me "surrealist" is a better term. The game has some dark elements but so do many games that wouldn't be considered dark. I think the game has quite a few moments of optimism, humanism and emotional uplift, such as the Goron Elder caring for his son, the daughter and father at Ikana having a warm embrace and the observatory. It definitely doesn't come across as THAT dark to me. It's still a game that emphasizes the positive, perseverant aspects of humanity.

>>1537503

I liked the area in OoT more. What made it interesting was that there was this pleasant village and mundane graveyard, but under and around it was horrifying shit, walls and floors of skulls and the result of deathly wars. It really felt like it fit in with the world. I like how as a child you pass through those areas and aren't at all aware of what's actually there. It always gave the world a feeling of depth to me.

>>1537506
I think people see it as a dark game because the whole impending moon rape that the townspeople are always worried about tends to hover in the back of your mind the whole game.

>>1537512
There was no backstory to it though.
Personally, I need a backstory to get that perfect creepy depressed feel from something.

It's probably because I'm terrible at imagining creepy scenarios for myself, so I have to have somebody set it up for me.

>>1537517

While it does mention "Hyrule's bloody history". I kind of like to imagine my ow backstory and when the game facilitates that. Like the Forest Temple is a castle: but why?

>>1537520
>Like the Forest Temple is a castle: but why
Fuck, I loved the forest temple, but it didn't creep me out at all.
I seriously am the worst at coming up with creepy explanations for things.

The theme for that temple made me feel pretty strange though.
I can listen to that by itself and get goosebumps.

>>1537357
>What are your thoughts on Majora's Mask?
Zelda games are for children.
>Hurr durr I'm Zelda I want to catch'em all four pieces of a triangle to save the world hurr durr
Seriously?

>>1537506
Surreal is probably a good word for it. There's also the obvious Alice in Wonderland homage with Link's fall in the beginning.

>>1537609
pls
>>>/v/
pls

Majora's Mask is my favorite 3D Zelda. There's just so many little stories and adventures in the game. I loved the time travel mechanic, how you always ended up right back where you started each time you progressed a little further, but things were a little different.

The was a surreal, somber mood to the whole game. To me, it seemed the story was about healing, redemption, accepting mortality, and cherishing the small moments in life. Like during the reunion quest to get the Lovers Mask, you spend 3 days of constant work trying to unite two people and undo a curse, and when you finally succeed and see them happy at the end of the world, you must rewind time so that it never happened. All you have is a memento. (That, and the alien farm. That mission was awesome, but god damn were my knuckles white by the end of it.).

Also I think it's a crime that Navi was never mentioned again after the end of MM. It seems like there should have been another game after it, where Link's strange adventures continue to the lands beyond Hyrule in search of Navi.

>>1537638
Even the US commercial captured the game right

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5Mf2mp6fms

MM is great but I fucking hated all the petty shit you had to do. All that dumb stuff leading up to the dungeons. It was the first Zelda game that really made you go through a bunch of favors and tasks to get to the good stuff. OoT had some of it too especially near the beginning but it wasn't nearly as bad.

Majora's Mask is one of those games where I can't think of anything else like it. The N64 had a couple of those, Conker's Bad Fur Day being another.

What was the deal with Skull Kid? Obviously he wasn't evil at all. So what was the mask doing? Was it just intensifying his feelings of anger and abandonment?

It's one of my favorite games of all time. Easily my favorite Zelda. I've always liked how the game kicks off with that cryptic line about Navi going missing, like it's just begging you to dig between the lines from the get-go.

>>1537702
>Was it just intensifying his feelings of anger and abandonment?
Pretty much.
I'm almost positive they even stated that in the game.

>>1537702
That's what I got out of it. If you wear the All Night Mask and talk to the Anju's grandmother at the inn, you can find out a bit more about Skull Kid's motivations.

>>1537686
You just don't get it, do you anon?

its the best (and only good) 3d zelda, period
after the absolute abomination that is oot, mm is one of the greatest recoveries ever in all video games

>>1537720

Get what?

the dungeons don't really feel as "real" to me as they did in OoT, where they felt more like logical parts of the world and history, where in MM they kind of just feel like dungeons without much logic in the world they inhabit.

what does this mean

>>1537746
I kind of give that a pass because it's not like Termina is the most logical world to begin with.

>>1537732
>after the absolute abomination that is oot

Trying too hard

>>1537746

In my opinion the world of Termina is not as cohesive or well thought out as OoT's Hyrule. It often feels like just a video game to be played through and not a breathing world of its own. That may seem an odd statement given the focus on NPC interaction, but I did find it kind of jarring that, in Termina field, there are immediately areas of sandy beach, cold mountains and a swamp. It's odd given the very well thought out nature of Clock Town.

And the dungeons in OoT sort of felt like part of the world, a lot. Going through the Fire or Spirit Temple, they almost felt like they had histories of their own and belonged to the land of Hyrule. The temples in MM are decent but its kind of just...here's a temple with a huge pillar, or heres a temple with some rooms where you switch gears. The temples don't really seem to exist for any reason, unlike something like the Shadow Temple which was a sort of burial ground of OoT's bloody wars. That's just how I see it anyway.

I suppose you could argue that the illogical world is okay due to the game's surrealist nature. But the game isn't so surreal to really make it work in my opinion.

>>1537746
Not OP but it felt to me that the temples in OoT were part of the world whereas the dungeons in MM had to be there because the game needed dungeons. It's been forever since I played but it felt like the temples had an in-universe reason to exist.

>>1537429
Interpretations of events are not the same as shitty awful godawful link is dead bullshit fanfiction.

>>1537781

I don't think so. It's not like the Water Temple or Spirit Temple are totally logical and make sense. They just feel like dungeons. It's not like Woodfall or Great Bay are any less logical or part of the world.

cool game but i hated the main quests...too many mundane tasks, felt like a lot of padding

>>1537773
That didn't make it less cohesive to me as much as it made Termina feel more dreamlike. You had all these diverse biomes all converging into one central spot, all with different people and different problems. I love how alien Termina feels while still only utilizing simple concepts like "swamp" or "wasteland"

>>1537506
I think the game is darker than people think. The games theme is death. The first thing the happy mask says to you is "you've been met with a terrible fate haven't you( what happens when one confronts their own death) The moon itself represents the face of death. Its angry and evil looking and gets closer as time goes on. Its ever present yet towns people are oblivious to it(at least superficially) until the end when its to late( they fear death having wasted their time on trivial matters) The games clock is also ever present constantly reminding you that the end is near. Inside the moon is a serene field(heaven) by helping all the people the player is rewarded with the fierce deity mask. the message seems to be that one should find purpose in helping people, so that their lives will have meaning in the face of death. Majoras mask deals with very deep and complicated existential ideas. I know its controversial but i think the game is about link confronting his own death and the journey that he takes.

>>1537941

Agreed. To me, MM may have the biggest disrepancy between amazing atmosphere and often stale gameplay. I heard someone call it a "to do list in video game form" and I think it is somewhat accurate. It's not nearly as bad as Wind Waker, but MM's main quest is pretty insufferable in my opinion. Also the fact you have so many items/masks makes switching between them feel tedious sometimes. People always bitch about the Water Temple but I feel like you have to bring up the menu more in MM for items and transformations masks.

Can I play this game without playing OOT but knowing the plot of OOT?

>muh atmosphere

it feels like a badly stitched together romhack of OoT

>>1538793
Yes, Majora's Mask doesn't have any of the same characters or anything (other than Link), and the events of OoT are only referenced a few times toward the beginning of the game, to establish the setting.

>>1537773
I always thought Ocarina of Time's overworld was a bit unimaginative. The previous Zelda games all had these sprawling worlds with lakes, mountains, forests and stuff kinda spread throughout them like an actual wilderness; Ocarina of Time's overworld is just a featureless hub with the areas of interest (desert, forest, lake, etc.) distributed in a neat little circle around it. It really feels like something from a video game... which is exactly what an adventure game should NOT do.

>>1538793
You'll lose a lot of impact if you don't play OoT first, since a big portion of what makes Majora's Mask's world enticing is its similarities to Hyrule and its inhabitants. Most of the characters in Majora's Mask are alternate universe versions of characters in Ocarina. Technically, you don't need to play Ocarina first, but it will help you appreciate it a little more.

>>1538821

I liked the world of OoT. To me Hyrule Field honestly did feel like a real thing. It's not like everything in a world needs to have some meaning and purpose, it has space to breathe. In older times there were lots of spwarling empty fields. And I like how Hyrule Field has trees, rivers, little lakes that don't have any purpose except to provide atmosphere.

Also I think it's stiched together in a way that makes it feel cohesive, such as Zora's River starting at Jabu Jabu and ending in Lake Hylia, and the Ranch being in the middle is perfect.

And what I liked most is that areas you visited as a kid had way more meaning later. You had no idea that the water temple was under lake hylia or that the forest temple was in the meadow. These temples and historic areas are right under your nose, which to make gave the world a sense of mystery. Just my opinion though.

>>1538850

>>1538880
Or the Shadow Temple being under Kakariko Village.

I love that idea: There's this happy, peaceful little village built on top of a sinister necropolis, and they don't even know it.

>>1538850
>>1538821
How long are each game?

>>1539095
It varies on how you play the game. First time through Ocarina without any guidance could take about, I wanna say, 20 hours? Majora can take about the same if you're going for all sidequests (which is highly recommended).

>>1539135
And Ocarina of Time will take even longer than that if you do all the side quests. What an unfair comparison.

>>1539178
The sidequests in Ocarina aren't an integral part of the experience like they are in Majora though. Skipping all of the sidequests and just doing the dungeons in Majora's Mask takes out most of the point of the game. The sidequests in Ocarina are mostly just there for extra rewards.

Is it just me that hated the shit out of Twin Molde?

I felt it was too tricky without Chateau Romani but once you got Chateau Romani it was a piece of piss

>>1539304
While it is a neat touch that you grow too big for Tatl to be able to help you with her targetting ability, it's one of those cases of sacrificing good gameplay for attention to detail.

>>1539315
it was the running out of magic that bothered me

having to smash pillars to get magic and then having to take the mask off to pick up refills
it was pretty annoying

>>1539320
Yeah, that too. Again, not increasing the size of the magic jars improves immersion but is a pain in the ass from a gameplay standpoint.

>>1539320

Get the Chauteu Romani

>>1539346
yeah they were pretty hard to see when you were big

>>1539350
i did, refer to my original post >>1539304

>>1537556
The synth along with the voice going 'Ooo' together in the background sealed in the creepiness for me. Though whatever percussion instrument they use is pretty disconcerting too.

>>1537640
My friends made fun of those commercials but I like them a lot. The DJ's voice showing hints of terror but trying to stay composed was great. Favorited them as soon as they found their way online.

>>1539315
How does that room work, anyway?

Does Link actually get bigger? Or does the room and everything else in it shrink around you? Or are there two copies of the same room (one big one little) and the game just transports you between them?

>>1537732
Sammy, shouldn't you be talking about the "ABOMINATION that was Sonic 06?"

I'm just repeating what pretty much everyone else said, but it's true that MM is exceptional in pretty much every area except actual gameplay.

Not that the gameplay is bad, but the dungeons are either boring or tedious and the only decent pre-dungeon areas are Woodfall and Ikana. Fuck Great Bay, fuck it so hard.

The sidequests for the most part aren't actually all that interesting, it's just the characters that make them. The Anju & Kafei sidequest sucks balls in terms of what you have to do during it, but the little character interactions throughout and the payoff is what matters.

Also, rolling around as Goron Link in the field is the funnest shit ever.

>>1538215
I like theories like these but do you really think the creators thought ALL of this out and were about to make metaphors and personifications of these things while still having to focus on making a game?

>>1539383
I'm curious about this.

I have no shame in admitting that Goron Link gave me a boner

>>1539383
it genuinely looks like it's a huge room in which Link gets bigger

I'd be interested to know the truth though

>>1539387
>I'm just repeating what pretty much everyone else said, but it's true that MM is exceptional in pretty much every area except actual gameplay.

so the game...pretty much sucked?

all good assets are reused from ocarina of time, the original music is mediocre, the story is disjointed, vague, dull and a silly overly dramatic mess

majora's mask fans are idiots, this guy is a good example >>1538215

worst zelda by far

>>1540802
>majora's mask fans are idiots,

>tfw playing through Majora's Mask for the first time in December of 2012, the month the world was "going to end"

>>1540883
How old are you? Honestly no offense.

>>1540889
22, got into Zelda late since I was never really much of a Nintendo guy growing up

>>1540926

ur dumb for ur age

>>1540802

>worst zelda by far

I take it you haven't played Skyward Sword?

>>1539304
>>1539320
i think it's more fun to try to take them out with arrows. only if i run out do i put on the giant's mask

>>1540926
Oh I see. You missed out on the nostalgia, man.

>>1537357
My favorite 3D Zelda, favorite N64 game and would rank somewhere amongst my top 10 Nintendo games of all time.

I remember playing this game when it was brand new and I went in thinking "there's no way it could be as good as OOT, but even if its just a rip off of OOT it'll still be a good game"

I was totally blown away.

The transformations. The time budgeting. The overworld. The atmosphere. The whole game was just stunning. It seemed like everyone I talked to back then had some story about some frightening thing they'd experienced in that game or some theory about this or that. The game certainly has its faults but it does an incredible job of being captivating.

The races seemed more fleshed out (especially the dekus) and relatable to instead of just being waypoints in Link's journey like OOT. In fact every single NPC in this game seemed to be playing the game just as much as I was. Whoever handled the writing and story of this game sure knew exactly what they were doing.

I know that the side quest aspect has been discussed to death, but I absolutely loved that the sidequests actually felt like a part of the game instead of some mini-game last-minute tack-ons like most games' sidequests are fated to feel like (especially OOT).

Also Majora is certainly the most daunting villain of the whole series thus far and probably one of the most genuinely interesting villains as well.

>>1540936

you're funny

>>1540802
The worst Zelda game is Zelda's Adventure. Even the worst Zelda games made by Nintendo are game of the year compared to it.

>>1541036

Please don't defend that piece of shit.

>>1541352
skyward sword is great

>>1540802

I don't separate games into categories of gameplay/graphics/sound.

To me it's all an integrated part of the gaming experience.

And Majora's Mask is enjoyable and compelling in many ways but not so much in others. It has an amazing, surreal atmosphere, interesting NPC interaction, and good and emotional cutscenes and situations. It's just a neat set-up.

But actually DOING the things isn't very fun. It doesn't mean the game is bad, just that not everything about it is good. I feel like much of the tasks and jobs in the game are very tedious. There is really nothing enjoyable about getting the zora eggs or learning the song from the goron baby. It just feels like useless padding to me. .Snowhead and Great Bay were well designed dungeons though. I thought Woodfall and Stone Tower were both poor. It's a shame because the transformations (especially Deku and Zora) control brillianlty, they don't make good use of them though.

Seriously getting the eggs is bullshit, because if you don't want it to be tedious as fuck, you need to get 3-4 bottles. Oh yeah, and needing to use a powder keg on top of ikana is some of the biggest bullshit ever.

So I'd probably give the game like a 7 or maybe an 8 if I'm in a really good mood. It has many flashes of brilliance. It puts a bit too much emphasis on world-building and mood and not enough on facility with the controller.

>>1541369

Yeah, except it doesn't play anything like a Zelda game and it feels completely gutted.

i actually think 3 days is too much time. there is never any time-related stress. and a lot of the sidequests felt like just waiting around. i hated doing the anju/kafei quest line. it was a compelling story but so much waiting around. and it sucked you had to go through it twice to get both the bottle and the postmans hat

>>1541523

I really wish there was a way to speed up time. Not the song of double time, but to actually makes it go faster, the opposite of the inverted song of the time.

I understand an appeal of the game's atmosphere is that there's not much you can control, time will flow whether you like it or not, but there really should have been an option to speed things up.

Hell, I actually think it could have been better if they replaced the inverted song of time with a song that made things faster, and also kept the song of double time. would have added a lot of tension and wouldn't let you slow down time at all, which would really add to the frightening atmosphere.

>>1541551
>wouldn't let you slow down time at all, which would really add to the frightening atmosphere.
Hmm. This would be interesting.

Did anyone else find this miniboss hard as shit? Maybe I just didn't know the "trick".

Yeah the only thing I hated about MM were the insane amount of items. You constantly had to start and switch between them. Like in Great Bay you had to switch between ice arrows, fire arrows, hookshot, zora mask....

>>1541523
Have you ever beaten the game in 3 days? It's just enough time to complete all the mandatory things and throw in a few others along the way. The tough part is opening up the ranch before night of the first day so that you can get Epona.

>>1541682
Not him, but that's where I got stuck the first time I tried it, it's such a tight time limit. Later on I found that you can make it a lot easier by just bomb hovering over the boulder, and then you just have to do the rest quickly enough.

>>1541710
But that's cheating anon.~

>>1541710
But that's cheating anon.~

If you're going to do that you might as well just skip Epona entirely.

STILL haven't played through this... When I was younger I never got very far, something about the time limit and the total change from OoT really put me off from it. I'm really excited to play it now though, just knowing there's an entire zelda game I get to experience for the first time makes me happy. I'll get to it very soon.

>>1541774
Enjoy it. It's one of the best. I wish I could play through it again for the first time.

>>1537357

I think Stone Tower is very overrated. It's actually among the most linear dungeons in the entire series. If you aren't collecting the fairies, there is never any question of where to go at all, it's virtually a straight line of rooms.

>>1541623
it definitely seemed more difficult than the 2D eye boss, which was an actual boss, but at the same time i think it did less damage in general. if i'm going for a real fight, i'll keep my distance and toss bombs or shoot arrows to scatter the little orbs and use my hookshot when i run out of those, attacking the orbs when they're at sufficient distance from the big eye. once i open up the eye enough, i take shots at it. if i don't want to do that and i have enough health, i just get underneath it and spin attack repeatedly. i have to eat all that damage, but can get the fight done in 2-3 minutes. actually, if i remember right, it's hard to avoid damage anyway since the orbs bounce around so sporadically. either way, you still have to deal with the eye sliding around. not sure what to say about that other than "be careful," which is kind of unhelpful

all the other minibosses were a lot easier for sure

>>1541623
The trick is use your Deku Scrub spin attack.

>>1542579

holy shit that is genius, never thought of it

>>1541490

by removing all repetitive and tedious backtracking?

>>1537556
>>1537520
Read fom the bottom box to the top.

>>1537687
Conveniently my two favorite games on the 64 And of all time.

>>1537687
Conveniently my two favorite games on the 64 And of all time.

>>1543191
I love shit like this. MORE!

>>1543289
Ah, I got a few. I wish I had more MM ones, it's my favorite Zelda.

>>1543302
Here ya go.
Sorry it had to be tainted with Shitward Sword though.

>>1543302
My nigga.

>>1537506
Someone correct me on this one, but wasn't the whole mask theme based off a type of japanese horror theatre thing?

>>1543358
This shit?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blOzH842IYg

>>1540802

>all good assets are reused from ocarina of time

the original art assets are much more visually interesting than OoT's, imo, and are a little more defined and less blocky. The two smithy characters, the Ikana scientist and his daughter, Majora itself.... I will agree on some things though, some of the enemy designs are cartoonish, such as the Wizrobe, which looks like something from Banjo and Kazooie.

>the original music is mediocre,

Subjective, but I'll contest that by saying some of the better themes are the most memorable in the entire series:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V97Yf8Mx8OQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgQpwWNzzrc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDX4ZwUeOok

Also, while not amazing musically, I liked that each major area utilized the same theme, just with different instrumentation.

>the story is disjointed, vague, dull and a silly overly dramatic mess

No less overly dramatic than any of the other Zelda games, in fact arguably less so given the apathetic or witless attitude many of the characters have in regards to what is happening. Yes, it is vague, but I think that's really its charm. It's not a clearly defined Campbellian story like the other Zeldas, it's more of a puzzle that has been half-assembled, leaving it up to the player to determine the rest of it with the game's not-entirely-linear, event-based story progression.

>>1543909

*should have also added, I think the re-use of OoT's art assets made the game more compelling. While it would seem cheap in most other games, because of MM's surrealist tone and blurred plot, seeing familiar faces in an unfamiliar settings only helped to improve the game's atmosphere.

>>1543909

song of healing and stone tower temple are the only exceptions, nothing in the game comes anywhere close to the amount of chord progression in hyrule field

chord progression is a thing, there's nothing "subjective" about it

>>1543909

You're replying to a troll.

>>1543191
Somebody in that thread for low res polygon textures in 64 days explained that the Forest Temple used assets from a previous version of Zelda 64. It was originally supposed to be Hyrule Castle.

>>1541774
I tried playing this back in 2008 but I can't read analog time so I got confused. I think must seriously be retarded from growing up with technology or something. Just call me actually retarded I think it would be accurate. Anyways the music just disturbed from from the Forest Temple and it genuinely upset me so I never replayed it. I might go back and replay it but from what I've read it has the motif of denial of mortality and I don't know if I could deal with that. I'm trying ot get surgery for something that might kill me eventually and it's difficult enough.

When I was younger I fell in LOVE with the game. It threw so many curveballs at you with the mask inventory and time system (that made it feel like a challenge in itself throughout the story), along with actually changing the character default playstyle at the players whim. No longer were you limited to slashing things with a sword or riding on horses.

You hop on water as a Deku, do swimming challenges as a Zora, and roll around as a Goron. Then there's the novelties like changing into a Daimajin and unlocking a retarded broken demon after mask completion. People like to cite the "atmosphere" and "grim" nature and other superficial nonsense as the drawing point for Majora's Mask, but as a kid I took games very straight faced and didn't care. For me the appeal was that there was just so many game changers and variations this series would kinda need after Ocarina of Time, it's not a soulless sequel as people like to think. Some of my most fond memories was just rolling around the open hub world outside the main clock town as a Goron.

However years ago my friend pointed out something interesting that made me lose respect for MM, the speed runs are lame as hell. MM kind of ushered in the idea that these linear dungeon designs are okay, there's no freedom when you're actually doing levels in the game. It's the first instance of limited level design that Zelda fans criticize in the new games.

I still like it, but have some self-doubt towards the genuine quality of the game.

>>1538850
Not the guy you're replying to but would the 3DS be a good enough replacement for OoT? I played it when I was a kid though.

>>1543998
I've been told the 3DS version is the definitive version, but I would argue the Gamecube Master Quest is equal.

>>1539409
>>1538215
There's almost no way for them not to be conscious of the themes and atmosphere they were trying to convey due to the fact that it's been bred into the gameplay. The whole concept of the time limit, clocks and sidequests would have to be created with these themes in mind in my opinion.

Link confronting his own death doesn't have to be him literally being dead. (I hate that youtube channel the game theorists so much.) It could just be his childhood ending, or dealing with coming close to death after the events of the last game. It is a pretty generic thing, mortality.

I forget how the Fierce Deity mask works exactly so I may have this wrong but I always thought it was the Link from Termina who actually perished, hence why it looks like Link and why it's a mask. It feels a lot like a coming of age story.

nintendo seems to have caved and will likely reveal @ E3, but for a long time they were scratching their heads wondering why they were being asked to remake it

there's a reason: it's simply not a good game, it was rushed and haphazardly slapped together

>>1544016
Wasn't the reason this game existed in the first place is because it was a challenge for the director to make the game in a year? I kinda like the novelty of that, that this game was created in an era when directors weren't so shackled. They could do weird stuff like that.

>>1544025

This is true. I don't have a source, but from what I recall Miyamoto wanted Aonuma to direct a remake of OoT (god knows why, it was only 2 years old at that point), which frustrated Aonuma to the point where he challenged Miyamoto over it, wanting to do a wholly new Zelda game instead. This annoyed Miyamoto, but he decided to let Aonuma have his fun, provided the game was completed in less than a year, which it was (8-9 months was the development cycle for MM, as I recall).

Tangentially, the game was originally supposed to have a 7-day cycle instead of 3, but this was deemed too vast in scope for the limitations of the project. It might have been interesting to see a much larger-sized MM, but honestly I like the game as it is in terms of length. Any longer and it may have felt bloated.

>>1543996

>However years ago my friend pointed out something interesting that made me lose respect for MM, the speed runs are lame as hell. MM kind of ushered in the idea that these linear dungeon designs are okay, there's no freedom when you're actually doing levels in the game. It's the first instance of limited level design that Zelda fans criticize in the new games.

I fail to see this, as I found the dungeons in MM to be a vast improvement over those of its predecessor. MM had complex dungeons that required most of what you carried in your inventory (for example, the Stone Tower Temple required the use of all transformation masks, all your "elemental" arrows up to that point, and many of your items). Dungeons in this game often operated around a central concept that needed to be payed attention to (ie the Great Bay Temple had the direction of water flow, Snowhead Temple had the big central column, etc). The boss monsters also often required a mixed strategy, not necessarily employing any single item or mechanic, but a combination.

Contrast this with OoT, in which you had dungeons that were largely completed with the use of your "base" items (sword, arrows, bombs), with a neglect to most of your existing inventory. To compound this, the majority of the dungeons' puzzles and monsters - as well as the boss monster itself - were easily solved or defeated by use the of the main dungeon item. Case in point is the Fire Temple, where getting the Megaton Hammer means just smashing everything you come across at that point, be it a puzzle, monster or even Volvagia, and it's made even worse by the fact that you almost never use the Hammer throughout the remainder of the game.

Some people complain about MM's dungeons for being confusing or requiring odd mechanics, but honestly I thought they were the pinnacle of the 3d Zelda games.

>>1537357
>collecting the Zora eggs was kind of tedious
My only complain about the game. Getting spotted was cheap sometimes, and i fucking hate eels

>>1544042
>I don't have a source, but from what I recall Miyamoto wanted Aonuma to direct a remake of OoT (god knows why, it was only 2 years old at that point)
Uh huh, bullshit.

>>1541490

Typical Zelda games since the SNES game

>Bland and easy combat with little choice and little risk
>Set objective world is empty and nothing to do at the end
>Enemies give hardly any risk
>Rupees are worthless and easy to get
>Easy and cheap to refill hearts even though enemies are easy
>No variety to the combat just use the sword

>>1541682
>>1541710
its like no one remembers that you can skip ahead 2 hours by listening to Anju's mother's stories and falling asleep

Has anyone hereseen MathewMatosis' review of this game on youtube? If you have, what do you think of it?

>>1542698
By making every single part of the game either a puzzle or an anime. Seriously even the fucking combat is a puzzle.

>>1544078
Pretty much.

>>1544052

I really disagree. I think MM's dungeons are decent but nowhere near as good as OoT's. I really didn't find them any more difficult or confusing, meaning they weren't that hard. (MM's combat is indeed harder than OoT's though).

While it may seem like a good thing the dungeons require more items, that was a factor I disliked. It made them extremely tedious. Not harder, just meant you had to pause the game a lot more and switch around arrows. I DO like the idea where ice arrows create platforms and stuff, that is great. But there's just so much switching of arrows, transformation masks, hookshot, bombs, especially the first time through. People complain about using iron boots in the water temple, but MM isn't always better with the constant switching of items and the use of the elegy song.

However, I do not think the use of items is as different as you say. Stone Tower only requires all the masks because of the elegy song; the solution is always extremely obvious. And it didn't require the use of ice or fire arrows if my memory serves me so I don''t know what you're talking about. The dungeons are still basically "get the certain type of arrow and open up new paths". Which I do think is a great idea which is why I like MM.

Also you could argue that focusing more on a single item means they can base the puzzles on creative ways of using the item, rather than just trying to see which item works.

I think Snowhead and Great Bay are decent dungeons but Woodfall and Stone Tower are bad. Woodfall is just way too "first dungeon", bad for a game with only four. And Stone Tower is IMO very overrated. It is extremely linear as others have said. Linearity isn't always bad, but when the concept is turning it upside down, why make us do that only ONCE? It makes no sense. Instead of making it part of the puzzle, its just part of the progression. Turn the dungeon upside down then go through the rest of the linear dungeon.

>>1544321
Also, the atmosphere in OoT's dungeons is WAY better IMO. They feel more like real places and not just like dungeons for you to go through.

I also think the dungeons in MM had too many minibosses which ruined the flow a bit. (enemies like dead hand are iron knuckle are more like mini mini-bosses). It got tedious where you fought a miniboss for the area and another miniboss for the boss key. The only dungeon I would call good is Great Bay because its puzzles are very clever.

>>1544321

snowhead and great bay are the worse dungeons, there's nothing difficult about the puzzles it's merely tons and tons of repetition, trial and error, and backtracking

>>1544358

trial and error is what usually leads to difficulty, because you dont know what to do

>>1543909
>those fucking aliens

>>1543982
Woah that's cool.

>>1543989
>I'm trying ot get surgery for something that might kill me eventually and it's difficult enough.
Welcome to the club. Do it three times and then you can start to worry, Play the game. There's numbers on the clock. It's not difficult. It's not like playing with a true clock with big and small hands.

>>1543996
>changing into a Daimajin
Isn't that the same as the broken demon?

>>1544754
Wait I'm stupid. I was thinking of great demon, not great/giant monster.

>>1544321
>(MM's combat is indeed harder than OoT's though).
No it isn't. Enemies in Majora's Mask in general do less damage to you.

>>1544774
Plus nearly everything is allergic to arrows, which you get early in the game.

>>1544776
I'm allergic to arrows to though, anon.

>>1544774

I don't think so. The combat in MM is less pattern based and more based on movement. Its not just "wait for enemy to do this, then strike". You more have to move around and the enemies are a bit more ruthless. The bosses are definitely harder. I honestly cant think of any enemy in OoT that caused any difficulty. Only one that comes close is the Gerudo guards and that's because they can knock you out; notice how it's not just a pattern of wait for them to strike and repeat, you actually have to find openings and stuff. Even the Stalfos fights just feel like a pattern.

>>1544780
>to
Okay that's enough coffee for me today.

>>1544782
Frankly I don't comprehend how you can think MM's enemies are any different in that regard. They have the same kind of puzzle-y combat. Only they do less damage so you're allowed to make even more mistakes.

>>1540883
I should have done this but instead I played Terranigma over the course of 12 days

>>1544782
>The bosses are definitely harder.
Also come on. No. They're just as easy as Ocarina's if not easier thanks to the aforementioned arrow allergy. The only bosses I'll grant to MM as actually being somewhat challenging are Gyorg and Twinmold (without the Gian'ts Mask).

>>1544791

I don't think so. The fight at the end of Ikana Castle is more intense than any fight in OoT.

>>1544796

None of the bosses in OoT are difficult. The only one that's annoying is Twinmold, but it's not hard, it just make take awhile to get the right angle. Never is there a threat of dying. The same certainly can't be said for Gyorg, who is much harder than any OoT boss. And Twinmold is not pattern-based, you have to move around to hit its tail.

Basically, the enemies in MM are a bit more ruthless and a bit harder to avoid. OoT never requires any facility with the controller at all.

As someone who has completed both Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask on minimalist runs not too long ago, I can say with certainly that Majora's Mask's combat is most definitely easier than Ocarina of Time's, and the fact that so many enemies do much less damage to you is a major part of it.

>>1537503
Well uhh I'm not that guy, but MM is also my 4th favorite behind Link's Awakening, OoA/OoS, and LttP.. I tend to go back and forth between LttP and MM, though.

Truth be told I didn't play MM until a few years ago, so my opinion is a little fresher, and possibly harsher.

In my opinion MM has one of the coolest atmospheres. The impending doom. The rush for time. It was just killer, and they nailed it the best they could.

However, I thought a lot of the game was extremely lazy. They already had an engine and a ton of the assets for the game before they even started, and yet it's nearly half as long as most other Zeldas and like one anon said earlier, getting to and through some of those dungeons was sometimes tedious and unrewarding. The masks were really neat, but I felt like it was more collect-a-thon than I would like. A lot of people really liked the reward for getting all the masks, but I personally felt kind of empty afterwards.. It just made things a little too anticlimactic for me. Dat tree tho.

That said I had a lot of fun with the game.. More fun than I've had with any other 3D Zelda.. I really think they should deviate from formula more often.

You don't want to ask me what I think about the Zeldas I didn't mention. From the kind of contention I see about Zelda on this board, you just wont be happy.

>>1544865

Isn't doing a minimalist run tedious as fuck, because with only one bottle you need to visit the pirate fortress four times and pinnacle rock three times? that would drive me crazy

>mfw I did the anju/kafei quest while stopping sakon from stealing the bombs in the same cycle, and i didnt know that prevented the curiosity shop guy from appearing at kafei's place, so i got no rewards out of anything

Wow that pissed me off.

>>1544884
Yep, it sure is.

>>1544876
This guy again..

While browsing the humor thread I came across this image. It perfectly encapsulates the kind of hubris that went into the game after OoT was so successful. I cropped out the iconic picture because it's distracting. In a way it backs up my point, but I don't want to go here nor there. Just look at their pitch.

"We're throwing 'lods of emone' at everything to make you buy this game"

If I recall correctly Bioshock Infinite cost $50 to market (and to make, although that's a discussion for /v/).

It also came out just a year later. It's almost like they just wanted to push out something and it ended up being pretty awesome somehow even if some of the cooks spoiled the kitchen and the end product simply could have been better.

>>1545330
lol $50 million to market I mean fuck me

>>1544746

>>1535293

>During development. Originally, you were supposed to go inside Hyrule Castle, and find the Master Sword in there. You would have also fought Darknuts. They scrapped actually entering the castle though, and turned the outside rooms into part of the Forest Temple.

>The well was originally how you were supposed to escape from Hyrule Castle after meeting Zelda.


Maybe in the game's lore it was an abandoned Hyrule Castle?

>>1545330
>bragging about your marketing budget as a selling point
Only in the '90s.

>>1545354
Wait, that small well passage in the Forest Temple? Or the Bottom of the Well dungeon?

>>1545364
Don't ask me I just quoted the guy from the other thread.

I loved Majora's Mask when I was a kid, but I think my adult self would be far less willing to put up with it. I'm not going to deny it has one of the best atmospheres in gaming, but so much of it feels like a chore. There's little joy in doing all the sidequests or going to the dungeons. It's a shame because the different forms of Link are amazing; they could base entire games off the Deku and Zora forms (the Goron form isn't so great). The Zora in particular has among the best swimming controls I've ever seen.

Playing Zora Link is so much more fun and I think that's the problem. There's just too much items and "stuff", which is the problem with modern Zelda in general. A game based off Zora Link would be more about movement and not endless items.

>>1544060

Looked it up, guess it was, more specifically, going to be a remixed version of OoT for the DD64 (which eventually became Master Quest, anyway)

http://www.joystiq.com/2009/12/05/nintendos-aonuma-majoras-mask-the-result-of-miyamoto-challeng/

>Eiji Aonuma has spent a lot of time developing Legend of Zelda games. In fact, he's been in a managerial role on the franchise ever since the series' arguably most popular installment, The Ocarina of Time. So when Mario creator (and his boss) Shigeru Miyamoto asked Aonuma and his team to develop an "Ura Zelda" (a flipped version of Ocarina of Time -- what would eventually become the Master Quest), Aonuma protested. Miyamoto's compromise, though, instead turned out to be a much greater challenge -- produce a sequel to OoT within one year.

>>1544321

>However, I do not think the use of items is as different as you say. Stone Tower only requires all the masks because of the elegy song; the solution is always extremely obvious.

Actually, this is untrue, as there are several water-filled rooms that require the use of swimming with the Zora mask, and a number of rooms with Deku Flowers in them. I believe there are also some areas where you need to become a Goron as well (I believe it's in some rooms with some lava you can wade through), though the Goron form's role tends to get shafted in the STT compared to the other transformation masks.

Also, something you really have to give MM credit for is actually making the water areas FUN, a truly monumental feat in vidya. Think about it, water levels suck because your movement is always inhibited and sluggish, right? So what does MM do? Give you a mask that basically turns you into an underwater jet fighter with swords for arms and a togglable energy shield.

Does anyone have ready to play HD patched downloads for OoT and MM?

>>1546562

higher resolution texture packs? never seen one that looked any good

at best it clashed with the game's style and at worst it was total shit

>>1546571
I only heard of them.

It's a great game. I think we all know why it's praised and why it deserves it, but I'd like to talk about what I dislike about it.

>The zora eggs section was ridiculously tedious
>The Goron mask isn't used for combat enough, and the Zora mask is OP
>The fairy collecting is boring, time-consuming, and it doesn't mesh well with the time-sensitive aspect of the game.
>The save system is too finicky, and it makes me nervous saving at owl statues.
>Some parts of the game are too cryptic, even with the Bomber's Notebook, which doesn't mesh well with the time-sensitive aspect of the game.

My biggest complaint is how the game wants to you explore, but it punishes you for taking the time to stop and smell the roses. Sometimes I just want to be able to explore an area after completing the dungeon. There should have been a "stop time" song.

>>1543316
I really like this theory. It adds a nice bit of texture. Phantom Ganon from OOT's sword being made by the twili from Twilight Princess means that there's potentially a Twili version of Terminian in Hyrule.

If Hyrule is considered "Heavenly" then what is the Sacred Realm though?

>>1546612
>2014
>not using inverted song of time

>>1546612

The Goron Mask is the lease used of the 3, yet I think it's for good reason. It's the least fun to play as. Also what does OP mean in this context?

And I really hate the fairy collecting. I thought it was a bad idea to have both stray fairies and skulltula houses. It always made the temples a bit more of a drag to me.

Also, what parts of the game do you think are too cryptic? I'd be interested to hear. IIRC some of the fairies may have been cryptic, I think there was one in Snowhead where you had to use the lens of truth while looking up at the ceiling

I really disagree with your last point though. If you slow down time you have A LOT of time to explore. So much there is no stress at all.

The Goron Race can go to hell, it was so hard, especially since you had to beat it before the first day. I usually just went back in time and beat goht again to give myself more time.

>>1546650
There is always stress when you don't know anything about what's next, always a worry that you'll start up a sequence of tasks that you won't end up finishing before a cycle ends.

>>1543909

Best song in MM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knLCbS02T1Y

>>1546678
>not Majora's Incarnation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEoD6M-kdAs

>>1546650
>Goron Mask
>the least fun to play as
But Sanic Zelda was the funnest thing in the game. I wish there were more of it.

>>1546691
Nope, defiantly not that awful sounding shit.

>>1546658
Doing it isn't mandatory. Besides I feel that the upgrade it gives you makes life a bit too easy.

>>1546612
Inverted Song of Time gives you 2 hours and 40 minutes, is that really not enough?

I wish there was more of a Deku community. The Goron and Zora races all have their own villages, but all the Deku get is the Palace. Maybe that's just the nature of the Deku, where they are more spread out and kind of just live on their own.

Also, is it a fact that you are the form of the Deku Butler's son? I think the game confirms it. Oh yeah, and that race with the Butler was really intense.

I'm with you OP, almost everything about MM is tedious to me. They were all interesting concepts, and I "get" it, but so much about this game feels like a chore.

It's a wonderful game, but it's far from perfect. The dark atmosphere is a plus, but don't fall for the 4chan hype machine about it, it's not the best.

I found the Anju/Kafei quest pretty unrewarding. I don't think the story is that compelling. It needed a little more. Kafei being turned into a child doesn't seem to be a metaphor for anything. I wish he was transformed into something else.

>>1546735
>Kafei being turned into a child doesn't seem to be a metaphor for anything
>I wish he was transformed into something else.
How about a giant cock, Dr. Freud?

>>1546743
>How about a giant cock, Dr. Freud?
Would've been censored in the american release anyway.

>>1546745
>implying the Japanese don't have this weird stigma surrounding genitalia

pros
-npc schedules
-the 4 main temples were well thought out
-transforming masks added more gameplay
-serious atmosphere is refreshing

cons
-not enough temples
-too much reused content from previous game
-abnormal save system
-meat of the game was fetch quests

I 100% it around when it came out, but never really liked the game.
yeah the main town actually had detail, but reusing all the npcs from oot and pretending they were different people left a bad taste in my mouth. it was neat however to see npc schedules and it gave the npcs a bit more life.

What an interesting and insightful thread. I'm really enjoying it.

>>1546774
This guy gets it

>>1541774
THIS FAGGOT

Quick question about gilded sword: do you need to complete the goron race by the start of day 2, or by the start of day 3?

>>1547704
You need to have the blacksmith working gold dust on your Razor Sword before the 2nd day end.

I played this game on emulator with a keyboard and I found the shooting minigames borderline impossible. the swamp one is a nightmare

>>1546678
I played this shit during 2012 to scare my brother.
>mfw I'm on UVB-76 during this all and the station is going FUCKING INSANE
I almost started to believe in the shit because of it.

>>1546708
I think so. I don't know why the butler would be crying/kneeling at the "stump" at the end if not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP7KRHY564M

>>1543964

I wasn't saying MM had a better OST than OOT. The Hyrule Field theme is quite good, however I am just pointing out that there were a few tracks that were certainly good enough to make the soundtrack rise above mediocre.

Are there any good HD texture packs available for MM? The ones I've seen are too "clean" looking and remove all personality from the visuals.

Y'all niggas should dump HD screens in the meantime to fuel my nostalgia boner. Majora's Mask is such a great looking game.

>>1550475
I asked this a lot. Never got many answers. Though there was one in this thread. So here's this instead. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf7JNzo6DZY

>>1550487

This is better than anything I could have hoped for.

>That shield
>That moon
>Those fucking faries

>>1550494
Wait until they use his voice clips.