/vr/ - Retro Games

place**

Sephiroth was no villain, just a poor soul pushed to far.

Considering you're fighting Jenova throughout the entire game, following Jenova throughout the entire game, and Sephiroth only "awaken" at the very end of the very last chapter, I'm going to go with Jenova.

I like to think they are both using each other for very similar goals; Sephiroth believing he can obtain godhood with Jenova's help and Jenova using Sephiroth's likeliness to dupe everyone (including Sephy) as a means to achieving her goal and then bailing out to another faraway planet to destroy like she's done countless times before, leaving everyone in the dust.

However, Hojo does state very clearly in-game that it was all Sephiroth's doing. I just got past the North Crater event recently so it's still fresh on my mind. Easily the most disappointing part of FFVII for me; Jenova got gypped HARD despite being such a fascinating antagonist.

Fucking Nomura, I know this is your fault somehow.

Jenova was contained for years in the Nibelheim reactor for years and was safely kept as a headless corpse inside the Shinra building.

You'd have to deliberately ignore everything in the game and live in imagination land to even think Jenova is a driving force of the plot.

One of the cool things about FF7 is they weren't so black and white about that, Sephiroth and Jenova are both to blame in the end.
Although you could argue Jenova is more of a "pure evil".

Just be glad they didn't pull a FF4 and had Sephiroth turn into a good guy without Jenova.

>>1453772
But Jenova didn't actually do anything during the course of the game.

>Jenova is a mere warm up for Sephiroth

I'm convinced everyone that thinks Jenova is the villain never finished the game.

Hojo is the real villain I think.
A comparison for any Star Wars fans out there
>Sephiroth=Darth Vader
>Jenova=The Dark Side
>Hojo=Palpatine

>>1453785
When did Palpatine ever gush over how awesome Vader was? I certainly don't remember the Emperor doing all he could to help achieve Vader's goals.

>Who was the real villain of FF7?
It's Sephiroth. Jenova using Sephiroth's image was Sephiroth's doing.

>>1453793
Vader was Palpatine's ultimate apprentice.
Like how Sephiroth is Hojo's ultimate expirement.
Is what I was getting at.

>>1453798
You're still wrong, and that's a very poor example. It'd be like saying Gestahl or Cid is the real villain of FFVI

>>1453675

But that's fucking wrong.

After Cloud eggs Sephiroth into the lifestream during the Nibelheim incident, Sephiroth became cocooned into the stuff, merging with Jenova cells in such a way that he was able to mentally control them. The point of his character is that he's so mentally powerful that he doesn't simply become one with the lifestream, but is able to bend it to his will. Speaking Jenova is made of Jenova cells, he's controlling her the entire way, shifting her into his image and all that. Cloud, being fused with said cells during Hojo's experiments, is also controlled (although likely not to the same degree). Part of Cloud's trauma later in the game is caused by his worry of having been led the entire time.

It also explains the final battle at the end of the game. Cloud meets Sephiroth's mind in the lifestream. Cloud, who is mentally very, very weak and unstable, was able to overcome the powerful mind of Sephiroth, which is a huge step for him as a person.

There wasn't really one "bad guy" though. It was kind of a trinity of Hojo, Jenova, and Sephiroth. However if you want to blame somebody, it'd be Hojo. If he didn't start fucking with alien shit, Sephiroth wouldn't have started fucking shit up.

>>1453819
Yes, Hojo is to blame for Jenova landing on the planet thousands of years before his birth.

Good going anon.

>>1453828
Isn't Hojo the one who decided to excavate Jenova though?
So if it wasn't for Hojo, Jenova would have stayed buried underneath a crater.

>>1453654
Jenova is the true sort of threat. A cosmic entity from space that functions more like a virus, attempting to consume the life force of the planet to sustain herself. It's not something that exactly makes her evil since it's required for her survival, sort of like how Lavos works.

Sepheroth is the face of everything though, although ultimately a pawn of Jenova. If he achieves "his" goal, Jenova still wins since she's a part of him.

Jenova's more an infection than anything in the story, the cosmic entity herself isn't really the threat, it's all the people she's been injected into.

>>1453832
Nope. Looks like you need to play the game again and pay better attention this time.

>>1453828
No? But it is his fault for saying "hey, let's inject people with the cells of this thing. Why? Because science of course. What could possibly go wrong?" and basically setting up a massive chain of events. Studying Jenova was one thing, but that shit was when he went full retard and fucked over the world.

>>1453838
If you're going to be an idiot, you might as well go full retard.

Why not blame Hojo's parents? That's just as stupid as blaming him.

Humanity is the one true enemy

:/

>>1453847
>Hojo's parents
What? Last I checked his parents weren't knowingly injecting people with the cells of an alien (although he thought it was ancient magic people) because they wanted to create a race of atomic supermen. Even before VII he was basically a walking cliche of an evil scientist. This isn't some shit he was indirectly responsible for, like the parents of Hitler, this is shit he directly and knowingly did.

>>1453867
Could you explain how Hojo is directly responsible for Sephiroth's descent into madness?

Go on.

>>1453869
Sephiroth's descent into madness was a direct result of him finding out he was a science project, which deluded him into thinking he was Jenova's son and basically Jesus. Hell, even if somehow you are gonna argue he wasn't responsible for that, he was definitely responsible for the level Sephiroth took that shit too. Sephiroth would've been a done deal after Nibleheim if it weren't for him being roided out with Jenova. Willpower is all swell and good, but if it weren't for him already having a connection to Jenova, he wouldn't have been doing the crazy shit he did. He would've just been dead.

>>1453879
So without Jenova, none of it would have happened.

Do you even listen to yourself?

>>1453884
Yes, yes I do. Do you? Jenova would've been in a fucking freezer at Shin-Ra being dissected and trying to reconnect, while being dissected again if it weren't for Hojo fucking spreading the cells across the world into people just to test the theory that Jenova would bring them all together. I am not gonna blame AIDS for being AIDS, but I will blame the guy who knowingly decides to start spreading it around the world because he wants to test a theory that people with AIDS will grow super powers and try to come together to reconnect a freaky alien.

>>1453892
Hojo's experiments didn't actually do anything but create a bunch of hobos wearing black cloaks.

I don't even know why I'm bothering with you since you think Hojo created Sephiroth. That's a huge indicator that you haven't actually played the game.

>>1453895
He DID create Sephiroth, not in the sense that he literally created him in a test tube, but the Sephiroth we came to know was the direct result of that fucking lunatic. If Hojo didn't inject Sephiroth with alien cells, he wouldn't have had anything to have break down over in Nibleheim and wouldn't have gone batshit insane and get thrown into the Lifestream. No seriously, explain your side to me because "well you just didn't play the game" doesn't work.

>>1453903
>If Hojo didn't inject Sephiroth with alien cells

Except Hojo didn't do that. Did you even bother to pay attention during the Nibelheim flashback?

>>1453905
Except how he did? Hojo and Lucrecia offered up their kid to be the guinea pig. Sure he might not have literally held her down and shot her up, but he wasn't some third party sitting on the sidelines, he was fucking there and actively participating in it. Again, I am not gonna blame a disease for being a disease, but I am certainly gonna blame the guy who puts the shit in his kid and then starts putting it in other people to test a fucking theory.

>>1453926
>he was fucking there and actively participating in it

And you act like he was the one in charge of the project or the one that decided it would be a good idea to try to clone an Ancient.

Great job talking about a game you've never played.

>>1453928
Except how I am not acting like that at all? I said he decided it was a good idea to spread the shit into other people after Sephiroth, which yeah, he pretty much was the damn head of. Back in the early days he was part of a group, but he (and Lucrecia) decided it would be a totally great idea to have his child be the test and we see how well that goes. Yeah, I can hold the rest responsible for being complete idiots, but seeing as they all come down with a bad case of being dead/murdered, I can't hold them responsible for continuing on with the shit. Then again, to quote you, I don't why I am bothering with you since you can't even explain your side of the argument and instead just stick to "well you never played the game".

>>1453967
>he (and Lucrecia) decided it would be a totally great idea to have his child be the test

If it wasn't their child, it would be another. Hojo could be completely removed from the picture, and Sephiroth would have still been created. You understand that much, right?

Hojo was more fanatical than anyone at shinra. He would go to any extreme for his research.

>>1453971

That simply depends on environmental conditions. I think that Hojo's/Lucretia's connections as he was growing up certainly helped him get to the position in the military he was in, albeit to a small degree. Sephiroth didn't really comment too much on knowing his actual parents, based on that one conversation he had back in Nibelheim before the incident. Ultimately the fear of not really deserving his position because he was an Eldritch abomination was what fucked him up and turned him into a NEET in that library basement. His achievements were thanks to his alien power ups and not his own effort and struggles. When that was his entire lifestyle and goal, it really fucked him up a bit.

Cloud's upbringing certainly had an impact on his character flaws (although many of them were due to other factors in the past, of course), so I wouldn't be wrong in saying Sephiroth would have it the same way, right?

Cloud and Sephiroth had that fear of not really being the great people they thought they were and it was clearly fucking both of them up.

>>1454008
>I think that Hojo's/Lucretia's connections as he was growing up certainly helped him get to the position in the military he was in

Based on what? He was a major Shinra project from the very beginning. His biological parents have fuck all to do with his position in the company.

>His achievements were thanks to his alien power ups and not his own effort and struggles. When that was his entire lifestyle and goal, it really fucked him up a bit.

How the fuck could you screw up his initial reasons for going nuts so badly?

>>1454004
That's why he quit and started spending every day at the beach, right?

>>1454023

They weren't his primary reasons ultimately, but based on the conversation in the reactor, that was one of the things he admits to wanting him to research the matter in the first case.

That questioning was what led him to even start thinking that. Don't tell me you're just riding on Crisis Core here. Gackt 3 wasn't in the original story, y'know.

>>1454030
He only questions whether or not he's really human, not some bullshit about his achievements. Not to mention that he only learns the truth about Jenova after he falls into the Lifestream and initially speculates he was only a mako experiment.

>>1454023
What are YOU going on about? It's pretty clear that's why he went fucking crazy dude. Either that or close proximity to Jenova's cells screwed with his mind.

>>1454053
>close proximity to Jenova's cells screwed with his mind

Why do idiots make up nonsense like this?

if the CIA had a science research and development division, and the head of that started a brainwashing program using his own research he discovered from ancient magic and offered up his own son to be used as an assassin to kill a world leader, who would you blame? The cia? the science r&d division? the head of the division/brainwasher/father of said assassin? The ancient magic? or the assassin himself?

>>1454063
*Brainwashed assassin

>>1454058
it's just speculation fuckhead. We're talking about a game over 15 years old with enough retarded spinoffs that anything goes as far as SquareEnix is concerned.

>>1454080
Speculation usually has some kind of evidence to back it up and isn't directly contradicted by the source material.

If a wimp like Cloud isn't effected from being a few feet away from Jenova, there isn't any chance Sephiroth would be.

Honestly, the most compelling case I've heard is that Hojo was the main villain because so many plot threads link back to him, and he seems to have this sheer malevolence and mentality of doing awful things just to see what happens. You could at least say Jenova was just following her biological impetus, and that Sephiroth just cracked because of Jenova and Hojo's influences. Hell, even Shinra improved technology (and with it presumably medical and safety practices), despite the awful cost. Hojo had absolutely no redeeming factors.

Sephiroth is the villain of the game.

Here's another question for you. Who was the villain of FF4... Golbez or Zeromus?

>>1454109
That's a stupid question. Golbez was a tool. Zemus was the villain.

Kuja or Garland?

>>1454090
Among writing propaganda research calling Jenova a Cetra, creating Sephiroth, helping along the Black Materia goose-chase at Costa Del Sol, and finally admitting that he's injected himself with Jenova cells, Hojo is very likely under the sway of Jenova for the duration of the game.

>>1454128
Okay so I can easily surmise your position then is that Jenova is the villain of FF7.

You are wrong.

>>1454132
No, because Sephiroth, while influenced by Jenova, canonically ends up in charge by the end of FFVII. I think it'd have been more interesting if Jenova was the real villain, but I don't get to pick and choose what's canon.

On the other hand, Golbez had zero free will throughout FFIV. Every scene with him was Zemus talking through him, much like Ultimecia using Edea.

>>1454136
Implying FF8 had any true villain.

How did you come to the conclusion that Golbez had zero free will, using only the actual game's dialogue?

>>1454139
It's been a while, but I'm almost positive that they flat out say he was being controlled by Zemus when you encounter him in the Giant of Babil.

>>1454129
>writing propaganda research calling Jenova a Cetra, creating Sephiroth, helping along the Black Materia goose-chase at Costa Del Sol

Hojo didn't do any of those things.

>>1454143
Better edit this pic, then.

>>1454128
I'd say Kuja. Garland never really was a "bad guy", he was trying to save his own world, which unfortunately meant the destruction of Gaia. It wasn't done out of malice. Kuja is pretty much an insecure mess, and can't deal with his reason for existence and his mortality, so he just wants to destroy everything. Not exactly evil, but I think it's a more villainous motivation.

>>1454136
Sephiroth is a first-class SOLDIER designed from before birth to be a super soldier, a master of magics and physical combat. He also contains a bunch of Jenova Cells, which makes him a perfect puppet for Meteor summoning, guarding against counter measures at the finale, and because of the reunion process, he's basically a Vita-chamber for Jenova.
Even though Jenova Synthesis isn't up to Sephiroth's combat level, it can buy time for Meteor. After it's plan succeeds, and Meteor catastrophically wounds the Earth, Jenova's human puppet Sephiroth would inevitably perish, and it's cells could reunite, and become completely whole once more.

>Who was the real villain of FF7? Jenova or Sephiroth? Who is truly to blame?

it's Hojo, the whole damn time it was only ever Hojo.

Hojo injected Sephiroth with Jenova cells in-utero simply to see the effects that they would have on human development. And that day in Nibelheim when Sephiroth got too near Jenova, Jenova reached out and activated a bit of itself in him. It drove him crazy and compelled him to resurrect that damnable animal.

Hojo conducted medical experiments on Cloud and on Zack as well, not just showering them with Mako, as had been done to SOLDIERS. He injected them with Jenova cells as well.

When Professor Ghast met Ifalna, he fell in love with her. First, he was just studying the Ancients, the Cetra and she was the last remaining Cetra on the Planet.

But Hojo? He imprisoned her and her daughter. Killed Ghast.

Someone once had a theory that the reason Ifalna escaped with Aeris from Shinra HQ was because Sephiroth, as a young man, let them out. Sephiroth did describe Hojo as a "walking mass of complexes"; he didn't like him, and Sephiroth pre-lunacy actually seemed cool enough a guy to do it.

And what does Hojo do after all this?

He kicks back on the fucking beach in a labcoat with bitches on both arms.

That mother fucker.

>>1453782
>thinking that's Jenova SYNTHESIS is Jenova and not just another Jenova monster

You don't understand. Jenova is kind of like a much, much slower version of The Thing with a common consciousness. Even if you destroy one part of it the rest is still out there and is constantly rebuilding. Only difference is that Jenova doesn't infiltrate and repurpose your brain - there is no indication that Jenova's original host body was alive at any point, it seemed to have been dead from the moment it was discovered. Jenova seems to be a Cetra that was corrupted by this alien, but was constantly put on ice - once she was entombed in a geological stratum and twice she was frozen by Shinra.

Remember that Lucrecia's Jenova cells wouldn't let her die after repeated suicide attempts. Hojo evolved into Lifeform-Hojo within the husk of Heretic Hojo by injecting vast quantities of that shit into himself and then getting severely injured by Cloud and friends.

>>1454172
>Hojo injected Sephiroth with Jenova cells

Look everyone, another idiot that's never played FFVII.

>>1454151
>writing propaganda research calling Jenova a Cetra, creating Sephiroth
Him and Gast did these things, and Hojo was in no hurry to change any research following Gast's new findings from Ifalna, which would have painted Jenova in a more diabolic light.

>helping along the Black Materia goose-chase at Costa Del Sol
You never met him on the beach, when he hints to where you need to go?

I wonder if this ambiguity was in any way intentional. In the same way FFVI relied on an ensemble cast of heroes, perhaps FFVII was an experiment in an ensemble of villains, a violent reaction between multiple selfish and voracious forces trying to play off of one another that could result only in catastrophe.

>>1454178
Gast was the one behind it all. Hojo always played second banana to the real mad scientist. His biggest motivation is his inferiority complex. Not surprised you missed something like that since you're stupid enough to think Hojo is the villain.

The Black Materia isn't a plot point when you cross the ocean. You sure you played the game?

>>1454185
>Hojo is the villain.
I think he's a puppet of Jenova, but sure, still a villain.

>The Black Materia isn't a plot point
It's not a revealed plot point at that time, but it is the impetus behind the Sephiroth clones leading you across country.
Jenova needs to get the Black Materia from the Temple of Ancients to the Crater, but the clones/small pieces of Jenova aren't hotshit in combat, so taking on the trials of the Temple, as well as a dragon and Demon's Gate, is out of the equation. From the Shinra building onwards it uses Cloud's memories to build the image of Sephiroth up as a villain for the strong party to follow, and try to thwart.
Hojo, as another puppet of Jenova, plays his part by sending you towards Mt. Corel.

>>1453654

It was Hojo. He became a mad scientist after living in the shadow of Prof. Gast for too long. Hojo injected Lucretia with Jenova cells, which transferred to Sephiroth. Then Sephiroth lost his shit when he read a bunch of Gast and Hojo's research in the Shinra mansion. Gast was never a villain, just a scientist who died before his work could be corrected. Hojo completed his work and found out that Jenova wasn't really a Centra. It's never really elaborated on whether Jenova was an infected Centra (AKA "ancient") or an actual humanoid alien, but I'm betting it's the former. So Jenova is basically the lifeform from "The Thing" (1982) and leeches off hosts. Jenova itself isn't very powerful, but it uses other creatures to do its bidding. It's like a steroid that also allows for mind control. So Sephiroth got raised as a SOLDIER from birth, and having Jenova cells made him more powerful and easier to exploit by Shinra. But that's nothing compared to the Centra/Jenova hybrid that Shinra keeps in their HQ and the Nibelheim Mako reactor. Fortunately, Jenova was sealed away and eventually mutilated, so you never have to fight it (the Centra/Jenova hybrid).

It's also poor writing on Square's part to not differentiate between Jenova, the alien, and Jenova, the Centra/alien hybrid.

This is coming from someone who just played the game and never bothered with any of the horrible spin-offs.

>>1454181
>I wonder if this ambiguity was in any way intentional.
Honestly, I don't think so. Brian Eno said something like "Treat every mistake as intentional," so I think Square just rolled with it and it ended up working in their favor. Pretty much every work of fiction has a longer lifespan if it's left ambiguous.

>>1454192
>I think he's a puppet of Jenova, but sure, still a villain.
No. Hojo is just crazy, primarily for living in Gast's shadow for so long. He only injected Jenova cells into himself late in the game, and even then he's not very powerful.

>>1454198
I'm pretty sure it's stated that Jenova shapeshifts, not infects. It shifted into a form that the ancients would trust to infiltrate and manipulate. It didn't fall and infect one

>>1454208
>I'm pretty sure it's stated that Jenova shapeshifts, not infects. It shifted into a form that the ancients would trust to infiltrate and manipulate. It didn't fall and infect one

That might be correct or a false conclusion reached by characters in the game. Nobody really knows what Jenova is except that it's bad, from outer space, and killed the Centra. Gast, Hojo, and Sephiroth don't even know. Honestly, I don't think Square can write worth a shit. And by "worth a shit" I mean without plot holes in the lore. I mean, yeah, I love FF7, but at the end of the day it's really just the nostalgia talking.

>>1454208
>injecting post-FF7 canon into the true FF7 game

Don't do that.

>>1454208
>That's when it appeared!
>It looked like... our... our dead mothers... and our dead brothers. Showing us spectres of their past.
Ifalna confirms the shapeshifting, the power Jenova also uses to take on the form of Sephiroth throughout the game.

>He first approached as a friend, deceived them, and finally...... gave them the virus.
>The Cetra were attacked by the virus and went mad... transforming into monsters.
She then follows up describing the infection part. Fits with what happens to Jenova cell carriers like Hojo and Sephiroth. Madness, followed by mutation into monsters.

Hojo = Frankenstein
Sephiroth = his monster
>>1454174 = dyslexic

>>1454198
Those figures look so cool.

>>1453743
What was the point of putting Jenova in a reactor?

It's fucking Sephiroth. Jenova, powerful as she was, is just a tool used by Sephiroth at every point in FF7.

>>1453836
>A cosmic entity from space that functions more like a virus, attempting to consume the life force of the planet to sustain herself.

First off we don't know why Jenova does what it does. For all we know it could do the "wipe out/consume all life on a planet" thing because he finds going up against the natives life in a fight for survival fun. We just don't know for 100%.

Unless it's been stated in some compilation bullshit I've never played.

>>1454437
Donno.
Big power source needed for detainment?
Good supply of MAKO for the experiments?

Nibelheim is an isolated reactor town, which makes it a pretty good testing area for shady shit, safe for damage/information control, and it's not too far from the North, where they excavated Jenova.

>>1454234
Jenova was some kind of powerful psychic that could cause hallucinations and implant false memories

>>1454172
>showering them with Mako

Have they ever shown this process in any FFVII spin off? Do they just put SOLDIERS in a sealed chamber and pump raw Mako in with them?

>>1454463
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PeopleJars
Yeah, judging by FFVII, and Crisis Core. It's like the vats in Empire Strikes Back/Starship Troopers/the Tyrant in Resi Evil 1.

>>1454158
>Jecht
>villain of FFX

Someone better edit it

>>1454172
>Hojo conducted medical experiments on Cloud and on Zack as well, not just showering them with Mako, as had been done to SOLDIERS. He injected them with Jenova cells as well.

All SOLDIERS are injected with Jenova cells. It's a core part of the process.

Who was the real villain of Xenogears? Deus, Krelian, or Grahf? Who is truly to blame?

>>1454792
Deus is the fucking creator being. All are meant to be a part of him. Krelien was the problem.

>>1454792
The intergalactic space weapon that created and manipulates humanity throughout the ages.

Do you people even think about these stupid questions before asking them? Everything isn't deep or obscure.

>>1454226
Yeah if you do this cloud's story is a fucking mess.

>hur I know you're Zack and that's cool as fuck ima steal your life because its fun and ride trains standing on top. Then when I get there I'm gonna pretend I'm in a daze cause that's cool as fuck.

The real villain is Square for turning a nice fantasy series into some overblown garbage with a terrible story.

The difference in quality from 6 to 7 is like the difference between Genesis Sonic to Awesome Possum Kicks Dr. Machino's Butt.

>>1454812
Let's be honest though. Like foot is lttp reimagined so is ff7 to ff6. Only difference in 7 is that the antagonist is a psaro rip off.

>>1454818
Oot*

>>1454158
>Using Dissidia to untangle Final Fantasy plot disputes

If you played it, you'd know that Golbez was on Cosmo's side secretly the whole time, and Jecht and Kuja are brainwashed into being villains.

>>1454794
Krelian was aiding Deus and its agenda though. On the flip side, you could say that the Wave Existence, Fei, and Elly were the true problems, since they were the abnormal agents disrupting Deus' master plan.

>>1454801
>he didn't understand that I was mocking OP for asking a silly question
I even phrased it the same way. Sheesh.

>>1453683
why would the artist be at fault? he wrote nothing

>>1454448
I always assumed Jenova was basically some kind of super-predator. Cunning but not intelligent.

Jenova is the villain.

People seem to ignore the marked difference in Sephiroth's character between the flashback & post-flashback. The whole "mother" thing only really appears in the flashback, yet people seem to define it as one of his major traits. Really, if you pay attention to the plot, you'll see that Sephiroth's personality completely changes after being consumed by Jenova - he lacks his previous identity and his motives are entirely different. This, more than anything, seems to highlight the fact that Sephiroth is not in control of himself anymore. Jenova is really just using Sephiroth as an avatar to convey herself to others.

Also fuck that Hojo crap. The dude is a villain for sure, but not the main one. Like, if we're going on the whole "derrr he caused it" route, you might as well blame Shinra instead 'cause they funded the whole thing.

>>1457029
He's not consumed by Jenova, and his personality/motivation changes after taking a dip in the Lifestream for a few years.

I don't know why people think Jenova had any sort of control when her main body and the "clones" were being drawn to Sephiroth at the northern crater.

>>1457042
>drawn to Sephiroth at the northern crater.
Well, they were drawn to Sephiroth's Jenova cells, and the head that he took with him, at least.
We also don't know the extent of Jenova's abilities, whether or not it can manipulate Materia. It's a better plan to draw the clones together for a slaughter up North to rebuild Jenova back up to strength, and leading Cloud's black Materia collection party, to the uber-powered, Jenova-infused puppet Sephiroth, so he can begin to cast Meteor in safety, rather than everyone meeting up in Midgar or somewhere.

In the case of Sephiroth's personality, it must also change again when you finally meet up with him in the Crater too. Despite taunting, and leading you around throughout the game, as soon as you've handed over the materia, 'Sephiroth's' psychological jabs cease, and neither he, or Jenova, talk with you again.
Judging by his past behaviour, and how he acts in post-FFVII works, you'd think he'd be delivering pre-fight jibes and stuff, but instead he stands there, suddenly mutates, and mutely battles you.
It's because Jenova formulated the Sephiroth image, and personality, as the best way to coax Cloud into getting the Black Materia to it. Once it had the Materia, Jenova no longer needed to harass you. There was never any personal psychological sparring between Sephiroth and Cloud, just Jenova pushing everyone's buttons.

Doesn't it flatly say in Ultimania Omega that Sephiroth was the one in control?

>>1453895
>you think Hojo created Sephiroth
Hojo IS Sephiroth's father.

Sephiroth and Jenova are one and the same. Shinra is to blame.

>>1457280
>they were drawn to Sephiroth's Jenova cells

Why would the *main body* of Jenova be drawn to trace amounts of itself in the northern crater? The head was lost way back in Nibelheim and is irrelevant.

>It's a better plan to draw the clones together for a slaughter up North to rebuild Jenova back up to strength

The clones weren't being directly being controlled by anything. They're being drawn subconsciously because they don't have the power to resist the Jenova cells' basic instinct to reform. Guess who the clones go on and on about when you talk to them?

>Despite taunting, and leading you around throughout the game, as soon as you've handed over the materia, 'Sephiroth's' psychological jabs cease

Because he got what he wanted and was focused on summoning Meteor and holding back Holy.

Ya know what, fuck you guys. I think if we are going to go all out and blame all this indirect bullshit we might as well blame Vincent for not stopping it when he could, or even better we could just blame Lucrecia, she coulda stopped it too.

>>1455081
I actually have the XenoGears Perfect Works book, translated version. Basically Deus is described as a weapon with three parts. computer, weapon, and power source. Deus is basically described as a evolving nanomachine weapon which creates living entities as terminal weapon interfaces. Basically its a weapon that creates more weapons with the sole purpose of destroying a enemy. The Wave Existence, which was trapped inside the power source by accident, basically wanted to return to its extra dimensional plane. It sort of infected Deus with this desire, but Deus was mainly just trying to reassemble itself by using humans a base building block.

>>1456930
This. Or it's some kind of hyper-intelligence beyond really needing to concern itself with brief ass human lifetimes. Alien and unknowable at any rate, it's much more creepy that way.

>>1454773

nope

if you read the stuff in the shinra mansion, the jenova cells didn't do much (if anything) to Zack due to him having been blasted by Mako

On the cellular level what does Jenova look like, has that ever been discussed or shown? If we had to compare it's cell structure to some Earth based life form what would it most resemble?