/vr/ - Retro Games

>>1450672
>your post
lel

>>1450780
Stop shit posting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SrBGpPHiEQ
this is FM right?

That chip

Dis nigga.

Man I could really go for some hot chips right about now

>>1450948
>SID
>shitposting
You don't know shit about soundchips.

>>1451060
Those are fries, anon.

>>1451252
>mfw Americans call chips "fries"
>mfw Americans call crumpets "biscuits"
>mfw Americans call biscuits "cookies"
>mfw Americans call beef wellington ensembles "cheeseburgers"
>mfw Americans call fizzly-wizzly sugarbeer "soda" or "pop" or, gorblimey, "sodapop"

>>1450948
One of those chips is still in high demand by musicians. The other has been completely obsoleted by software. You decide which is the shitpost.

>>1451272
>mfw Americans call apple juice "cider"
>mfw Americans call cider "hard cider"

>>1451272
>MFS Americans call rooty-tooty point-and-shooties "guns"

>>1451272
>My face when Americans say they live in a first world country. Bitches don't even have HEALTHCARE, nevermind a middle class.

>>1451304
>>1451310
>>1451291
>>1451272

>>1451314
>call forcey fun time "rape"

oh ahahah

>>1451314

Good thread guys

>>1451310
first world: NATO allied countries
second world: WP countries
third world: Unaffiliated countries

learn what the fuck you're talking about.
lot's of stuff about the US might suck but it's in the G8, so whatever.

>>1451310

I've had far better experiences with healthcare here in the states then I have in Canada.

I was in a city of 60,000 and there wasn't a single fucking outpatient clinic. Pathetic.

>>1451387
Where the fuck did you live? Stavely or some other town with sub 500 residents?

Could someone kindly direct me to the archived version of the previous FM Synth thread?

>>1451427
>>1451387
>>1451379
>>1451314
>>1451310
>>1451304
>>1451291
>>1451272
>>1451252


Leave.

>>1451485
You mean "evacuate the premises, you mingy mongs"?

Aw yeah the YM2612 is my chip but I gotta show some love to the gameboy chip due to Nanoloop and LSDJ

>>1451561
>i gotta show some love

Please stop butchering the language with this ghetto shit, Americans.

Give a big love holler out to your homeboys elsewhere, dog.

>>1450780

I would say the SID is the synth chip with the most distinctive sound.

Hey guys.

The NES' CPU, which was responsible for both game program and game audio.

It did neither very well.

>>1452517
Hey, I take offense to that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmsRzOv4CeI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rr2SMjx0rSc
I've played that second one on hardware.

>>1452037
There have been many worthy sound chips mentioned in this thread but the one that always produced my favorite timbres would have to be the initial one posted, which was none other than the YM2612. I grew up on this chip's sound and later on spent time learning how the chip functioned. This meticulous research allowed me to build functioning Arduino-based breadboad projects and after acquiring rudimentary 68000 assembly programming skills I was able to do some sound experimentations on the actual Sega Genesis/Mega Drive hardware via a flash cart. That being said the readily available music producing cartridges for the original Game Boy, like Nanoloop and LSDJ, make the sound generating unit on the original Game Boy worth mentioning, which I believe like the nes sound generating unit is integrated into the architecture of the CPU itself.

>>1452563
If make music on computers, you can download a VST of the YM2612.

Is very good.

>>1452565
You can also use TFM or VGM Music Maker if you can find a download link for them, or if you're a masochist, you can use the Deflemask multi-system tracker. It was originally for the genesis, so if you can get past the terribly designed UI, everything should work perfectly.

Don't try to contact Delek avbout Deflemask. He's stubborn, doesn't listen to bug reports, doesn't respond to requests, and has probably geven up development on it. Any attempts to do these just ends with a "why does nobody post any REAL concerns, it's always 'the UI sucks' or 'This export is buggy'", and he never fucking fixes the problem

>>1451310
>>1451314
>>1451379
>>1451387
>>1451485

>>1452580
That's still better than the healthcare we have here in eastern Europe: It's free but it is essentially useless; all the good doctors who can actually fix your shit work in the private sector which DOES cost shit loads.

>>1451282
in demand? by who? Sid music is fucking terrible so its probably just hipster artists being ironic. Its got piercing high screeches, annoying bubbly fart waves. Honestly I fucking hate the sid chip it has its own unique sound and thats the sound of shit bubbling out of someones asshole.

>>1452517
Reminds me of that rant in Pachi Com about the 2A03's missing decimal mode.
http://tcrf.net/Pachi_Com_%28NES%29

>>1452551
The NES' processor was gimped so that Nintendo could profit from a $100 console. Considering it slows down a fucking ton and flickers if you dare to put more than two objects on screen, it's obvious how many corners they had cut. Also they cut decimal mode support from the 6502.

All this expanded audio wankery further proves that the NES' CPU is worthless when it comes to music. It's sad when NES "musicians" have to resort to a combination of VRC6 and Namco163 to make their music sound good.

Don't try denying that.

>>1453417
Niether of those songs use expansion chips. They're both 2a03-only.
>"musicians"
Since getting 2A03-only to sound good seems to be an impossible task for you, don't you think you ought to show the people who can actually do it a little more respect?
The "musicians" you might be talking about are the SIDfags who rely on insane filter effects, and wave combining to make their screeching shit impressive. What's really sad is when your music can be equaled or trumped by an AY/YM or shitty 1-bit beeper.

>>1453417
Gimped? Compared to what? Did any other console in 1983 sound better? Or even in 85, when it came out in NA? The Master System sounds even worse and its newer.

>>1453961
Sure is nice having a triangle wave you can't even hear, or worse yet, you can't adjust like a pulse wave. Sure is nice for the pulses to have four duty cycles, with two of them being exactly alike.

>>1451485
what the hell am I looking at? a prototype synth?

>>1453961
Both the Colecovision and the SMS had better sound systems than the NES

>>1453980
I've never played a colecovision, but I have literally never heard a SMS game with better sound than NES that wasn't using the Japan-only FM chip. SMS sounds atrocious. And speaking of gimped, the SMS is really weak considering how much newer it is than the NES. Its like the SNES vs. Genesis, but reversed. It should be better because its newer and has fancier hardware, but doesn't live up to its specs at all.

>>1453964
>Can't hear the sexy Tri.

Somene's deaf and missing out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYOxtAa_o3k&t=1m58s
>>1453964
>Sure is nice for the pulses to have four duty cycles, with two of them being exactly alike.
>two of them being exactly alike.
You mean like every duty cycle having a polar equivalent?

>>1453986
To be fair, the SMS suffered from a lack of 3rd party devs due to Nintendo's exclusivity contracts, so it was all up to Sega and the occasionally 3rd party dev to put out games. In theory people should have been experimenting to push the SMS hardware, but since Sega's under stress to push out games, they really didn't have a lot of time to experiment around.

>>1453986
Not trying to bash the NES but this sounds pretty good here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjIFFdGsny0

>>1453989
The triangle wave, in many games, is barely even audible, moreso if the song uses 3+ sound channels. And the duty cycles are 12.5%, 25%, 50%, and 75%. 25% and 75% are exactly the same. Anything above 50% would be a waste, since it's just mirrored.

>>1453994
>Nintendo had to use exclusivity contracts to get third party support

That explains why there's so many games that are coming out to every platform but Nintendo's. Since Nintendo isn't coercing them, they have no motivation other than the kindness of their heart.

>>1453994
No, the SN74689 just sucks.
>three noise frequencies
>you have to sacrifice a channel if you want more
>lowest note is two octaves too high to be useful for anything
>as a result, no bass
>can go absurdly high, which is again useless

>>1454005
>denying that Nintendo had an absurd grip on 3rd party devs during the NES' hayday

>>1454012
I didn't deny anything. I was talking about today, as in an era where Nintendo's home consoles are no longer relevant.

>>1453998
I don't like the soundtrack to that game (played it on Genesis), but that doesn't sound too bad, no. But does it sound better than an NES equivalent, like Lifeforce? I'd say no way.

And its not like I'm biased against Sega or anything, I LOVE the Genesis.

>>1454007
the NES CPU is worse

>>1454014
I'd say it's on par with Life Force and Abadox. Then again music preference is very subjective.

>>1454018
No one would argue otherwise. The SMS is newer. But taking into account how much newer the SMS is, its not the NES that's "gimped".

>>1454018
A Z80 at 4 MHz is comparable to a 6502 at 2 MHz. The SMS could update some sprite graphics while waiting for VBlank to clear (unlike the NES), but it was much slower than it would to simply wait for VBlank.

>>1454025
there's a 2 year gap between the Famicom and the Mark 3. Surely the tech didn't leap a huge amount in a 2 year span?

>>1454013
Yes, and we're talking about 80s-90s sound chips.

>>1454014
Lifeforce/Salamander was wasted musical potential. Totally could have been a VRC6/7 game.
Before anti-expansionfag comes at me, let me point out that nearly every version of Salamander has has an expansion chip or FM used for its music, such as the original arcade version (FM), the MSX version (Konami SCC), the PCE version (Wavetable synthesis to simulate FM), or the Salamander 2 remixes, (PCM+FM?)

>>1454018
Wanna elaborate? I think it's hilarious that people have gotten to the point where they feel the need to complain things that they don't program for.

Is it bad because you've seen what developers have done with it or is it bad from personal experience? People will say anything and I mean anything to level the playing field when it comes to justifying ones love for a console when really you should just like what you like and not care what anyone else thinks.

>someone says the SMS sound chip is bad
>someone tells that guy that the NES CPU is even worse

What is the purpose? What does this do? Am I looking for rationality in a discussion that has no rational people? Help me out here.

>>1454035
I dunno, someone was circlejerking about how the NES has superior sound to the SMS, which technically isn't true

>>1454035
But I do program music for the NES.

>>1454034
>Lifeforce/Salamander was wasted musical potential. Totally could have been a VRC6/7 game.

You're in for a treat then.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDa1wpsGxlM

>>1454040
But both aesthetically and technically it IS true.

>>1454045
that'd be a nope

>>1454042
Using Famitracker isn't 'programming music', sweetie.

>>1454048
And you can argue all you like about the glorious potential of the Jaguar's graphical capabilities, too, but it doesn't ultimately matter, because they all look like glorified SNES titles. All the actual games on the SMS do not sound great, unless they are using the FM chip.

>>1454046
That's exactly the video I was talking about. I have a slightly different version of "The Power of Anger" on my NES flash cart that's equally amazing.

>>1454048
But he's right. Support your claims.

>>1454050
FT is mainly used, but I do program music for the NES. Even if I didn't and used FT exclusively I read up on the documentation of these chips for fun, and the 2A03 is quite a bit better then the SN7whatever, though the integrated audio mixing is pretty cool.

>>1454042
That makes sense seeing that you've given your opinion some background but I don't understand what Anon was trying to accomplish by tossing in
>NES CPU is even worse

>>1454050
Do you know what PPMCK is?

>>1454050
well at least its pretty fun

tfw no one cares about what i make in it

>>1454061
And not that I'm using this to validate myself even more (because it won't), but the 2A03 is a CPU with integrated sound. The SN is just a sound chip. no other purpose. Yet here the 2A03 is, controlling nearly everything the console is doing AND making music at the same time.

>Do you know what PPMCK is?
God, MML is a bitch.


>>1454065
It'l get better the more you do.

No one ever fucking talks about the Famicom Disk System's audio. How did that work? Has anyone been able to reverse engineer it? What does "wavetable synthesis" even mean? Isn't that a fancy term for DPCM, or something?

>>1454056
>implying anyone liked the Jaguar
>>1454056
>>1454057
know what? you're right, the SMS has an outdated soundchip (dating from 1979), and is barebones as fuck, not benefiting from enhancements from the NES. I still don't like how Nintendo handled their sound system though, by integrating it into the CPU. It seems like they were being cheap at the time, they could have had a dedicated sound chip and enhanced the sound more.

>>1454078
>not benefiting from enhancements from the NES
meant to say it didn't benefit from enhancements like the NES' sound system did.

>>1454073
It means you can draw a custom wave and use that for the music. Same principle as the PC Engine, VitrualBoy, GB Wave channel, etc.

Brad Smith (aka rainwarrior) finally reverse engineered/corrected the algorithm the wave modulator uses a few months back. He's put that in the latest version of his fork of NSFplay and it'll probably be in the new version of Famitracker. As such, they are/will be the only two NES audio emulators with fully accurate 2C33 audio emulation.

>>1454084
So does that mean I could use the 2C33 to produce a sound similar to Sunsoft's bassline DPCM? That's awesome, shame that the FDS format was so limited with memory.

I just hope someone could make a cart that's like an MMC3 with the FDS sound on top.

>>1453986
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
feature=player_detailpage&v=YMhlh-StnZ8#t=143

>>1454078
>I still don't like how Nintendo handled their sound system though, by integrating it into the CPU. It seems like they were being cheap at the time, they could have had a dedicated sound chip and enhanced the sound more.

Okay, what would enhancing the sound accomplish? Yeah it would sound great but there's a reason Nintendo picked those particular parts for the NES. They had experience using it. They used the Ricoh in their arcade games. I can't say if their arcade games used Ricoh before the NES did but my point stands. If you're manufacturing a console you're going to have think smart and save.

If your console is expensive as hell then breaking even will require you to sell a buttload of units and software. It needs to have stuff in it devs are accustomed to it and if they aren't then they probably will eventually if they're a programmer who's worth their spit.

>>1454095
>So does that mean I could use the 2C33 to produce a sound similar to Sunsoft's bassline DPCM
Not really, but you can still use it to produce very 'interesting' sounds, the LoZ sword sound effect uses the modulator, and many games use it for vibrato rather than actually changing the pitch of the note.

>
I just hope someone could make a cart that's like an MMC3 with the FDS sound on top.
Well, there's this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1adAo-mrfQ

There's another version with the actual 2C33
on the board as an optional extra (RIP IN peace, RAM adapter) and for an additional fee, yuu can get one with both the 2C33 AND a YMZ224 for Sunsoft5B NSFs. You can also plug in a cartridge with the appropriate expansion chip for your music to use.

No emulation an all. All 100% real.
I want one, but they're insanely expensive and only shipped within Japan

>>1454117
you're forgetting Nintendo's primary design philosophy, "low cost hardware that everyone has experience with"
even then, they could have spent 75 cents more and put in a better sound chip. Nintendo just loves to sell consoles for profit, rather than put it in a little more power and profit slightly less per console, but benefit from selling more software as a result of the increased capabilities.

>>1454119
Maybe that InfiniteNESLives guy could make something like that, he's been able to replicate the Sunsoft 5B.

>>1454127
>you're forgetting Nintendo's primary design philosophy, "low cost hardware that everyone has experience with"
Wow, that's what I just said
>they could have spent 75 cents more and put in a better sound chip
75 cents? If it were 75 cents they probably would have done it! Where did you pull 75 cents from?
>Nintendo just loves to sell consoles for profit, rather than put it in a little more power and profit slightly less per console
I agree with you but going overboard can be dangerous if nobody wants what you're making. Name a company that doesn't cut costs. If you plan on surviving you will cut costs, believe me.

>>1454126
I'm pretty sure those Gimmick! repros and 5B flash boards just use a real AY and some FPGAs to emulate it, which is good because I can replace it with a YM chip when a friend and I build an NES arcade cab for Gimmick!.

A Kira Kira Star Night cart'll come first, though.

But those are for another thread.

>>1454142
>75 cents
it was an example, going by how much a chip in general costs (.25 to 1.50, excluding customs and microprocessors) and throwing in a little extra to cover the fact that a dedicated chip would have cost more than the integrated one in the CPU
I'm merely stating that Nintendo didn't have to lowball the whole damn thing. Nintendo is always content to play the low-end card only when it suits them. Hell, Nintendo didn't care about next gen until the Genesis started taking market share away from the NES, and introduced the SNES to counter the effect.

>>1454095
Just found this. You'll need a nico account, though: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm19764750

>>1454165
http://www.nicozon.net/watch/sm19764750

Fixed.

>>1450672
I destroyed two of these tonight :(

On the plus side, my quest was successful and I now have buffered and amplified output from my dual-ym2612 synthesizer and vgm player

>>1453417
>Considering it slows down a fucking ton
Bad programming/insufficient optimization.

>flickers if you dare to put more than two objects on screen
Sprite flickering is a programming trick to make not drawn sprites visible.
Sprite width is always 8 pixels and if you put more than 8 on a line then they won't be drawn.
But THAT has nothing to do with the 2A03, this is about the PPU 2C02.

>Also they cut decimal mode support from the 6502.
That was patented by MOS technologies. It was realized by removing a few vias in the middle of 6502 die (actually it's still there but disabled).
Also both chips were Ricoh's ideas, they proposed the idea of using their smaller 6502 clone over a Z80 which took more space on the die.
So they put all kinds of Audio and DMA stuff in the free room of the 2A03

>All this expanded audio wankery further proves that the NES' CPU is worthless when it comes to music
Expanded audio was only used in Japan/on the Famicom.
I also know that you don't know the company SUNSOFT. They made some kick ass music by using the 2A03 only.

Speaking of Salamander music, I found it hilarious that between the two arcade versions there are over 20 pieces of unused music. A lot of them are very clearly brainstorming-level, are nowhere near complete and don't even fit the tone of the game, but it's a very interesting glimpse into a part of game development that doesn't usually end up seeing the light of day.

>>1454127
At the time, there was no such thing as a console lock-out chip. Nintendo NEEDED to make a profit on every unit of Famicom hardware, because they couldn't control game licensing. The lock-out chip - and indeed, the entire idea of a locked-down game console which no one but the manufacturer could produce games for - was invented with the NES.

>>1454521
>Nintendo NEEDED to make a profit on every unit of Famicom hardware, because they couldn't control game licensing.

Good thing it wasn't very difficult for them after the recall.

>>1451282
I demand by who? Sid music is fucking atrocious. its all ocean software fartwaves or crappy tim follin style shit. its got piercing high shrieks too its just all around horrible.

Report and ignore.

>>1454824
>crappy tim follin style shit
Shit taste.
Overrated music, yes. Shit music, no.

>>1451282
SID is partly analog so it's difficult to simulate perfectly in software (although jsidplay2 is in practice close enough that you'll never hear the difference).

>>1454991
yes it is shit music its just fucking techinical wank I hate it so much. just because you can show off your understanding of theory doesn't mean its good. prog rock his main influence fucking sucks for the most part too.

>>1455005
And your angry tirade of subjective, personal bullshit doesn't mean it's bad. Play some Spectrum games, or something and keep your mind at ease, buddy

>>1454031
I don't know, but there's also a 2-year gap between the Mark 3 and the PC Engine, and the PCE was a true next-generation machine compared to the Mark 3.

>4x CPU power
>4x sprite bandwidth
>4x graphics RAM
>8x larger master palette and 16x more subpalettes, for a much more colorful image
>shitloads of bandwidth for updating graphics RAM, for powerful animations
>much better sound, albeit still weaker than SNES or Genesis

as well as a bunch of more minor things I'm not mentioning.

>>1450780
>>1452042
Any notable tracks?

>>1451310
There are horror stories in both public and private health care. Also, the bigger your country, the harder it is to implement public health care. Pure economics. You can only do so much with a prevention & health promotion model.

It sort of works in European countries because look at the fucking size of that shit. It's the size of one of your states.

>>1451310
top 5%er reporting in. I paid more in taxes in 2013 than the national median household income and I live alone

I am part of the American "middle class"