/vr/ - Retro Games

lol I usually don't love your OP pictures but I keep seeing these transparent case CRTs for prisons when I search eBay for small CRTs. Too bad they're never any better than composite, if they even have more than RF.

>>1388225
Heh, cool by me. The pics are just meant to be dumb attention grabbers.

>Don't mind me, just being the ultimate CRT for /vr/ gaming

>>1388390
Isn't this sexy?

>>1388390
>>1388392

>9' PVM that costs money
>paying for tube TVs

On one hand, I can't stand how composite has to blur out Genesis graphics. On the other, I don't think having a tiny 12 inch screen would be good either, they never made these past 15.

>>1388395
What the fuck are you talking about?

This isn't a PVM, and it doesn't have a 12" screen.

And they didn't make PVMs past 15", as well as a shit ton of other monitors.

you are high

>>1388395
What the fuck are you talking about?

This isn't a PVM, and it doesn't have a 12" screen.

And they did make PVMs past 15", as well as a shit ton of other monitors.

you are high

>>1388392
Where's the HDMI for my Blu ray player?

What would be a fair price to expect to pay for a 20" PVM with RGB input? I have an old 1344Q from '94 as pictured, but I'm thinking about finding a bigger one.

>>1388436
I'm having a hard time finding any 20" PVM's for a price I'm ok with. I'm thinking about settling on a 13" PVM-1353MD for now because I can get it one shipped to my house for about $100 and it has all the jacks the 20" model I want has.

>>1388414

>he doesn't watch blu-ray remuxes on his PC

>>1388436

condition
condition
condition
condition
condition

Since you already have one you can wait til a really nice one comes along. I'd pay up to $100 plus shipping for something minty.

>>1388390
>ultimate CRT
Funny, that doesn't look like a 27" Trinitron.

>>1388414
>not having a bluray drive in the pc you have connected that you use to play starfox 2 on until sd2snes has super fx support

>>1388630
>until sd2snes has super fx support
not gonna be any time soon.

>>1388589
trinitrons are overrated as fuck by /vr/ they're awesome tvs but holy shit guys

>>1388589

>>1389305
>overrated
Agreed. For a long time they were the only aperture grille displays, but some people think non-AG displays are a deal-breaker. Crazy.

>>1388589
Yeah, cause it's better.

>>1388589
Find me a Trini that will sync every available arcade resolution, accept both YUV and RGB video, and has onscreen digital controls for screen size, shape, color temp, convergence, and landing and we'll talk.

Also XMs have a smoothness to the image which can't be matched by aperture grille displays. Without losing any detail at all.

>>1389331

Holy FUCK those are heavy if I'm thinking of the right tv.

>>1389634
I like your NEC an I admire your commitment to it. What is its maximum SVGA resolution?

Also
>smoothness

>>1388390

Where can you get one of these?

hue

>>1389698

There are a few versions of the XM29 series floating about. I think some of them can do 800x600p (1080i maaaybe possible). There's also the lesser known XP series that goes even higher.

>>1389771
Best places to check:

craigslist
ebay
Surplus AV sellers
University auctions
government surplus auction
arcade and retro gaming message boards

They are harder to come across than PVMs, and they are usually in worse shape. Mint XM29s will fetch $150 each easily when being sold between people who actually know what they are capable of.

But, sometimes you'll find six or seven or them for sale for next to nothing. It's just a crap shoot.

There's a company in Atlanta, GA that used to sell these on the second hand market, but that was four or five years ago.

http://stores.ebay.com/AVFORSALE

http://www.avforsale.com/

It's worth tossing them an email or call to see what they have left. Last time I was in contact where willing to sell me a dozen 20" PVMs for 10(!) dollars each if I picked them up in person.

>>1389810
Is the XP29 capable of 15 and 31khz sync?

want to play games on a crt through a laptop with an emulator.

any difference between using vga-rca and hdmi-rca?

if i want to watch films on a 1360x768 LCD, any difference between using hdmi or vga?

>>1388225
You could actually turn a better TV into one of these by removing the external shell, making a mold from Plaster of Paris or something, and casting new clear plastic parts in the mold

>>1389935
practical as fuck

>>1389698
My 14'' PVM can do 800x600p
I can take a pic when I get a VGA->BNC cable

People have mentioned that larger CRTs, or maybe PVMs in particular, have inferior picture quality the larger they get. Is this entirely based on viewing distance, or is the cathode gun flawed in that it can only provide a crisp picture for small screens?

>>1390346
Anyone remembers playing NES/Family game on a B/W TV?

I remember trying lot of mario hacks on this baby.
That was the shit.

>>1390621
didn't ment to reply, sorry

Friendly reminder that you can get RGB from these consoles without any mod:

Quick question about PVM medical monitors. I'm seeing a few places where they say that the item "may be subject to regulation by the FDA". Are medical monitors actually a controlled item in the United States? I'd figure they'd just be under normal FCC rules regarding monitors and TV's.

on my pvm i just got i was playing in a darker level and any time a brighter character went into black and left there was like a little after image of them. What would cause that kind of thing

>>1391079
you have to mod the gamecube and wii to get RGB?

>>1391121

Nope, but none of them are /vr/ unless you're using emulators or the gameboy player.

>>1391146
Or Virtual Console.

found this on craigslist, offered $40 for it. model number is PMV-1954Q

think it's worth $40 /vr?

>>1391150
forgot pic, here it is

>>1391151

Noice! Do you have photos of the back? If it has RGB/Component, yes it's worth the price.

>>1391150
>>1391151
Does it come with that nice box on top?

>>1391154
they included pics of the back

>>1389831
I think they usually don't. They will doublescan 15khz signals to 31khz. So you can connect your consoles no problem, but they won't be native res.

>>1391109
Phosphor trails. Perfectly normal behavior. It's leftover energy from your character being drawn in the space behind it as it moves across the screen.

>>1391151
Yes, buy it now. If you get the

>>1391163
>>1391151

for 40 dollars id take that without even thinking about it. Unless it has burn in or something I think thats a good deal.

>>1391151
What's the box on top do?

>>1391274
It's a good deal even with a little burn in, which it probably doesn't even have.
>>1391151
Get this fucking thing!

>>1391329
they stopped responding to my e-mails at the moment.... i'm hoping they are just lazy and didn't sell it to someone else already. If I end up picking it up i'll update with a pic of it running

>>1390346

Well, it's a bit of both. Big CRTs will look good from their appropriate viewing distance even if they have some fairly noticeable flaws in convergence or geometry when you look at them up close. Smaller CRTs could have the same issue, but since they're small it's harder to tell unless you really scrutinize.

But yeah, the smaller ones tend to be a bit more reliable. Less weight on the solder joints maybe.

I think some of the problems they develop stems from them being handled fairly roughly over their lifespans. If you don't sit them down gently the sheer weight can send quite a shock through the set, and that's never good.

>>1390621
>Anyone remembers playing NES/Family game on a B/W TV?

Of course, my first gaming experience was with a VCS on a b/w portable set.

Later, a b/w 13" was my first television. A tv in my room of my very own! That was something pretty special at the time.

>I remember trying lot of mario hacks on this baby.

We are literally decades apart. But in recent times I have enjoyed playing some hacks on my Toshiba Blackstripe.

>>1391086
It's probably boiler plate for all medical equipment just to be on the safe side. I've never heard of video monitors to be categorized as medical equipment even if they were manufactured with the medical industry in mind - also medical monitors tend to have way lower hours on them than broadcast monitors.

>>1389890
You shouldn't convert your outputs to composite ("rca") if you don't have a composite port on your laptop but you really want to play on a CRT then just get a regular CRT VGA monitor and get the output as close as possible to 240p. MAYBE you'll get lucky and there will be hacked drivers for your video card that will support it but probably you'll end up doing 640x480 with some kind of CRT shader/filter on your emulator even if it's just the "draw every other line black to simulate scanlines" one. I can tell you're not enough of a neckbeard to get that pedantic about it, it will look extremely authentic to your normal gamer eyes. As far as your VGA vs HDMI question, I usually use VGA because I have more of the cables but again for a non-meganerd HDMI will probably be better because it's a smaller cable and it also carries sound on the same cable.

>>1391325
It's an editing VCR, probably betamax. Dead giveaway this setup was used in a TV or small movie studio for editing, which means less hours than broadcast. If the VCR comes with it (and works) it's an unbelievable deal.

>>1391325
>>1391151
Furthermore, if someone were wanting to make gameplay videos they could record their actual gameplay to betamax in very high quality 240p analog and then edit them in the VCR, only finally turning them digital as they were encoded to MP4 for YouTube.

>>1391719
I kinda figured so.

I didn't think this would happen, but because of making multiple offers on PVM monitors I now have both a PVM-1353MD and PVM-14M2MDU being shipped to my house. Time to start ordering components to make SCART to BNC adapters.

>>1391649
I still have my first TV that I had in my room, a color Zenith 11" RF only with fake wood paneling. Unfortunately, it doesn't power on now for some reason. Not sure if I'll have it repaired or just donate it to a repair shop.

>>1391732

>probably betamax

Well it's written Betacam and it's from Sony so it MUST be betamax.

>>1391743
>Time to start ordering components to make SCART to BNC adapters.
Check to see if your monitors will accept composite sync before you make your adapters. I wasted a bunch of time thinking I needed LM1881 (IIRC) sync separators in my breakouts and I didn't.

>>1391749
Well it's too blurry in the Craigslist ad to say for absolutely sure and I'm not claiming to be intimately familiar with every single rack mount, editing VCR ever made but yes I'm fairly sureit is a BVW series - older than the one I posted though because it has needles for a couple level gauges that are LCD on the 70.

I know virtually nothing about CRTs or TVs in general but I have a question. I really like TVs styled like pic related; are there any affordable ones that have AV input? preferably with wood finish

>>1388219
I wish the made more transparent tvs.

>>1388219
I love electronics with clear shells. I wish they made more of them.

>>1391752
The LM1881's aren't too expensive from the parts dealer I work with. I'll probably put the sync stripper in with a switch so I can just bypass it if needed.

>>1389825
What are some good message boards to check?

>>1391767
Sorry for the wait, but I finally got a response and a better pic.
it's a Sony Betacam SP Machine model# PVW-2800.
i'm picking it up tomorrow for $40, will post more pics when I get it home.

fingers crossed nothing is wrong with any of the equipment.

Sort of related to CRTs but when I plug in my wii to my CRT with s-video I have really obvious diagonal lines. I know about checkerboarding (which I get on other cables I use on other systems) but this is different. Does anyone know what this would be.

Also speaking of checkerboarding is it possible to fix a cable that has it?

>>1391749
No, you're wrong. Betacam != Betamax. The only thing they share in common (besides the Beta- prefix) is the fact that the small-size Betacam cassettes (the 20 and 30 minute ones) have the exact same form factor as Betamax cassettes do. In fact, the original oxide Betacam 20 and 30 min cassettes are essentially re-labeled Betamax L500 and L750 cassettes. HOWEVER, Betacam and Betamax recordings are COMPLETELY different and incompatible, partly because betacam recordings use a MUCH higher tape speed. When used in a Betamax VCR, a 30 minute betacam tape will provide 90 minutes of recording time in Beta-I mode, 180 minutes in Beta-II mode, and 270 minutes in Beta-III mode, because the tape speed is so much slower in Betamax.

Betamax was targeted at the home video recording market (where it lost to VHS), while Betacam was a professional format that was developed several years AFTER Betamax was introduced.

Speaking of Betamax, the pic is my SonySL-HF600 SuperBeta Hi-Fi from 1985, which I still use to record video game playthroughs and TV every now and then.

>>1392268
So OP better buy a shitload of tapes then if he's gonna record very long videos.

>>1392271
Or OP could buy a smaller load of the large-size Betacam tapes, which can record up to 90 minutes and are much bigger physically than the 20 and 30 minute cassettes.

>>1392271
OP here, don't jump the gun yet, I havent even seen the thing in operation yet. But yeah, i'm pretty excited about it regardless.....

>>1392382
It's worth it just for the PVM and even if the PVW is broken you could still probably sell it on eBay for $40 or more, plus shipping.

Trying to decide whether to continue my search for a ED/HD CRT, or to invest in a downscaler.

Thoughts?

>>1391805
There are a handful of late 80s television sets with composite video input and a nice wood grain exterior. RCA Dimensia and Lyceum would be good models to start.

Televisions like the one in your pic are a bit older, and generally only allow VHF connections, or perhaps coaxial (RF). Very poor image quality, but also very deliciously old-school.

>>1392890
>VHF
If you're talking about UHF, those antennae used 300Ohm connectors.

I wish I could've gotten that 30 inch looking HD flatscreen CRT my old job threw out, but it had been mounted in a wall and hadn't been turned on in about a decade so there's no telling if it even worked anymore. No clue what the model number was but it was a Magnavox.

Does anyone know if the sony kv-pf21p10 has component inputs?

This popped up for free but the seller hasnt got back to me.

So, I have this TV that overscans health bars and life counts out of the frame. I've tried a couple different universal remotes, but I can't get it into service mode. Is there anything I can do?

>>1392141
Does that happen with a other TV?
I think that either the cable has wired composite as luma or the both wires are poorly shielded so that chroma interferes with luma.

>>1393154
>Is there anything I can do?
Older TVs have trimmers for geometry adjustment instead of a service menu.
So open it and see if you can find some 'plastic screws' on the circuit board(s) with labels like V SIZE, H CENTER etc.

>>1393172
>So open it
You don't even know what kind of TV anon has and you're saying "open it." waaaat

>>1393154
I'm not gonna ask the obvious, ya dingus.

>>1393180
>You don't even know what kind of TV anon has and you're saying "open it." waaaat
I said that older TVs don't have service menus and i'm sorry for not writing "You could" instead of "So".
Damn i thought this is /vr/, where some anons are old enough to make their own decisions.

Hey guys, pretty new to this PVM business so I thought I'd ask, do these monitors look OK and which of the two would be better?

http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/eltham/tv-dvd-players/sony-trinitron-video-editing-monitor-14-pvm-14n6a-/1038370616

http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/eltham/tv-dvd-players/sony-trinitron-pvm-1440qm-broadcast-video-editing-monitor/1037190906

>>1393235
I would say the 1440QM but I'm also pretty new in this. I have a 1440QM myself and I'm pretty happy with it. One big plus on this is that it had a scart input.

>>1393287
>One big plus on this is that it had a scart input.

That was the main point I was looking at too. Currently I have no scart cables for any of my consoles but in the future who knows? Especially if I have a reason to have them.

>>1393292
I use the thing in my picture (not sure what it's called).
I assumed that you are in Australia from the url you posted and I thought that is also PAL land, right? I use the standard cables that came with my consoles.

>>1393312

Oh yeah, I'd forgotten they exist. Thanks for reminding me, and you're right on both counts btw.

Sup /crtg/, are there any RGB cables for the SNES/N64/GC which dont cost 60-90€?

>>1393172
Isnt it usually cables that have both s-video and composite on the same cable that get that get checkerboarding? The s-video cable im using for my wii is s-video only so im not really sure what the deal is.

>>1393476
I paid 30 clapcoins for mine.

>>1393312
>SCART territory
>using composite

Anyone know how to get rid of the over brightness and washed out look on a PAL N64?

Composite cables don't work, will an official RF unit get rid of this?

>>1393708
>will an official RF unit get rid of this?
The opposite will happen.
However do you use a official cable intended for PAL systems, because they have a 75 ohms resistor to ground and a 220µF capacitor on the video line. Using a cable intended for NTSC systems will result in a too strong/bright signal because they lack the resistor and capacitor.

>>1393732

No, I'm using a generic composite cable.

The RF Unit Ive ordered is an official PAL one so hoping it will get rid of it on the CRT.

>>1393732

Can't find an official AV cable anywhere.

>>1393707
Money doesn't grow on trees you know. I don't want to pay €50+ for some cables that give a slightly better image.
If anyone knows a cheaper solution or knows a good site for decent cables than I would be glad to know.

>>1393796
>slightly better
More like a lot better, assuming your tv is decent - and SCART cables are like $20 so unless the exchange rate has changed dramatically I thing 50 euros plus is an exaggeration.

>>1393796
50 euros? I got my megadrive SCART for like £5. Quit being dumb.

>>1393829
Like a said earlier; I'm new to this. I only tried to help someone decide on which PVM he should get. And I don't see you suggesting a better option.

>>1393819
The €50+ was exaggerated and I was talking about the official cables. So if I get a unbranded cable it should be the same as the real deal?

>>1393841

Check if the cable carry RGB, some unbranded cables don't have the RGB wired, only composite.

>>1393819
>>1393829

Me again, >>1393476

German here, did a research on RGB cables for Nintendo consoles once

You pretty much have 3 options
>buy a original Nintendo RGB which is around 45€
>there was a good Vidis cable which is impossible to find nowadays
>the Wolfsoft one which is even better than the original Nintendo one but costs 86€ and more, the YUV one starts at 130€+

That's it

All the so claimed "RGB" cables in the price range from 5-25€ are just hidden composite ones, thats no actuall RGB

I don't know if RGB cables for Sega might be way cheaper, but if you want one for Nintendo then 45€ is the lowest you get

>>1393847
I found this one http://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/super-nintendo-pal-rgb-av-scart-cable-av-lead-cord-for-sale.html
It says it is for the snes, but can I also use it for the N64 and the GC? There is also a cable for the nes but that one is composite so I can keep using >>1393312 ?

>>1393868
Maybe you could use this site as well.

>>1393880

You would have to modify it if you want to use it with the GC, and the N64 don't output RGB.

>>1393884
Thanks for the info. Than I will buy only 1 cable. I don't think I will mod my GC and N64 (yet).

>>1392908
No, I'm talking about VHF. That's what you use for connecting a console or other exterior source.

UHF is for the antennae.

>>1393941
Yeah since NTSC consoles invariably transmit channel 3/4 that's VHF.

>>1393941

>>1393235

Get them both. The pvm-14n6a is probably slightly superior if it is working properly, but the SCART input on the other is extremely nice.

>>1392908
>>1393941
Both of these are right and wrong, since you don't call that VHF or UHF. The connection is called 300 Ohm twin-lead if you're going to differentiate it from 75 Ohm coax/F-type connection. RF/VHF/UHF isn't a synonym for either.

Small reminder that if you are too poor to afford expensive cables and converters for your systems you may still enjoy gaming on your RGB enabled monitor through emulation.

The basic cable you need is this one, a VGA > RGBHV cable. Don't pay more than ten dollars for one. If you check around your local used computer places they may have one laying about. Computer labs at universities are also a good source. If all else fails, ebay it.

The image produced by a PC outputting the proper resolution/frequency is actually -superior- to the real thing in many cases. This is due to the video output of most graphics cards being much better quality and accurate compared to the older, cheaper circuitry inside most consoles.

Neo Geo, Sega Genesis, and SNES seem to benefit the most.

>>1393965

Fine, fine.

Let us use twin-lead from now on for this old connection.

>>1393102
I have kv-21ft1b witch look almost identical to this.
Only 1 SCART at the back and composite input at fron also mono

>>1393941
You'd connect different antennas to both VHF and UHF, for TV channels on both bands. Neither one was dedicated just for external sources or TV.

>>1393946
>invariably
Some old RF adapters selected between 2 and 3.

>>1393978
Just make sure your monitor can sync to your PC output or else the connection won't work.

>>1393229
>>1393180
>>1393172

I didn't want to move the TV to find the model number last night because it was late and people were sleeping, but it's a Samsung TXB2025 from '95. I can't find a service manual online. Does that narrow down what I need to do?

>>1389801

How did you get that to work on that tv?

>>1394040
It's more like the other way around. Make your PC output a signal for the monitor.

But it's trivial these days with the existence of Soft 15khz and CRT_emudriver.

>>1393965
In the US, 75ohm coaxial F-type was typically used for VHF antennas, and 300ohm twin-lead screw terminals were typically used for UHF antennas.

>>1394180
Cheapass chinese downscaler. Looks pretty good at 480p->480i anamorphic, as the TV is widescreen-enhanced. I got the downscaler to see if it would output a 240p signal when fed with 320x240 from a PC, but it's not worked so far. I'm going to try different video timings and see if I can force anything but 480i NTSC.

>>1394339
I know, but see this:
>>1393965
>RF/VHF/UHF isn't a synonym for either.
You don't say "VHF connector" or "UHF connector" to describe the connector type itself. >>1392890 tried to differentiate between "VHF" and "RF," equating "VHF" to twin-lead and "RF" to coax. None of that makes sense.

>>1392440
OP here again, just got back from dudes house.

turns out he's a professional editor for major canadian television (CBC TSN etc) and has had this thing sitting around for literally years without being used. I didn't end up taking the beta recorder because I have very little use for it.

It's fucking HUGE.

Im confused about what kind of scart cable I should be getting. I have a PVM and the scart to BNC and it works and everything. When looking for a ps2 scart cable I found a US seller that has one for 20 dollars but it says sync-on-luma. Aren't most snycs on composite video? Would that work for the sony PVM?

>>1394394
Congrats anon, and welcome to the PVM club.

Get yourself some SCART cables and some BNC connectors and witness the true glory of a 240p display with godlike scanlines.

>>1394356
VHF connector is legit, since you're using the VHF frequency range to run your signal. Not common, but at least I'd know what someone was talking about.

>>1393102
I don't know if it's cause i grew poor or something but i learn to take ANYTHING that comes free, never say no to free stuff (drugs included).

>>1394394
What's the model number?

>>1388390
>>1388392
How much are these worth? I see one on craigslist that's kinda far away for $150...

>>1394356
>You don't say "VHF connector" or "UHF connector" to describe the connector type itself.
That's how it was commonly labeled on consumer TVs. You're right, though, >>1392890 was misusing them even in that case.

>>1394528
model number is PMV-1954Q

>>1394535
A very nice one can go for that much. They are highly prized among the shmup community for their size, flexibility, and ease of rotation. They also use the same tube as an Egret 2 candy cab.*

*or so I read on a blog once.

>>1394394
>It's fucking HUGE.

you don't even know yet...

>>1394618
know what?

it's true that I don't have the BNC connectors to display anything yet, but there's a russian surplus store nearby that will provide em.

>>1394646
>know what?
I think he was playing on the fact that there are 25, 29, and even 34in PVM/BVMs, and as such, a 19/20in model is small in comparison.

>>1394879
word, but being that my current setup is a 1702 commodore monitor this thing is a major upgrade for me, and cost me very little to boot.
thanks everyone for the advice, truly a generous thread.

>>1394887
>1702 commodore
A good monitor but the PVM will change your life. If you get rid of the Commodore get it to someone who'll love it though.

>>1394987

... or just keep it if you want get some day a Commodore 64 (or if you already have one).

>>1395213
Or just as a backup.

>>1395213
>>1395214
That's why I said IF he gets rid of it. He sounded like space might be at a premium for him.

Drug the WEGA out of the living room and left it on the floor in my game corner in the bedroom. That big bastard is a pain to move, and I'm gonna have to find a stand for it. Toshitbox is gonna stay in the livingroom since it's HD and has a DVI input for the HP.

Also cats

>>1395303
Don't sell Toshibas short. They were a top CRT brand up until 2005-2006 or so. Your '03 model was a great buy once.

>>1394879
and 37", and 42".

>>1396124
>42 inch B/PVMs
I don't think so.

>>1396138
I can't seem to find the manual that was posted a thread or two back, but they exist.

I'm sure this has been asked a billion times before, but as I was playing my PS1 on my Sony PVM20L2 today, a thought occured:

I have my PSone plugged in through SCART and it plays flawlessly, however when I turn it on, my PVM says RGB 480/60i on the monitor. I am aware that the PS1 only outputs to 240p, but I'm wondering why my monitor display says this, and thought maybe it was upscaling it in some way?

Is it actually displaying in 240p natively like it's supposed to, even though it says 480 and I'm just over thinking this too much entirely?

>>1396196
Nope

>>1396251
240p is realky 480i with the even fields' locations cranked down to be on top of the odd ones'

>>1396251
>Is it actually displaying in 240p natively like it's supposed to, even though it says 480 and I'm just over thinking this too much entirely?
Well does it look like 240p?
If yes then ignore it.

>>1396257
>240p is realky 480i with the even fields' locations cranked down to be on top of the odd ones'
Interlaced has both odd and even fields and non-interlaced has either odd or even fields only.

Guys, I'm confused about inputs. Does a tv with pic related support playing SNES, NES, etc? What is it supposed to look like?

>>1396268
>Y/C in
S-Video

>Video In
Composite

NES will work over Composite, SNES will work over Composite or S-Video.

>>1396263
>Interlaced has both odd and even fields and non-interlaced has either odd or even fields only.
Well I'm not 100% sure if 240p lays the even fields on top of the odd ones or just not at all, but the point is that the display itself can't tell the difference between 480i and 240p. 240p is really quite different from 480p that way.

I have a Princeton AF 3.0 HD 32"

The geometry is a little squished on the sides, but it seems like a good monitor.

On the back is a YPbP and VGA input. Along with RGB/ S9Y/c) and Composite.

I can post a picture of the goofed geometry if anyone is interested, I unfortunately don't have any consoles to test it with just my computer with VGA.

>>1396138
>>1396196

There are no PVM or BVMs in these sizes, but there are RGB pro monitors made by other companies.

>>1396291
This thing is FUCKING huge. 143 pounds

>>1396251

ps1 does both 240p and 480i. Usually all game play is in 240p and 480i is for other stuff. You can tell if its actually in 240p just look for scanlines.

>>1396291
The geometry might not actually be goofed when you try some other sources.

This monitor may be expecting some funky frequency to get the correct full screen image. You could play around with powerstrip and see what you can get.

Do you have a DVD player or cable box? You could always use those just to experiment.

>>1396308
It use to be my dad's and I believe he gave it up for a big flat screen within the past 2 years or so. It was looking bad on his cable box.

Pic in minute

>>1396296
Pretty much only Mitsubishi.

It seems like VGA input is safe when it's in 4:3

Stretching it to widescreen is where the geometry begins to be noticeably wrong

>>1396323
That's VGA? It looks terrible!

>>1396323

>>1396330
phone camera out of focus. and it's an emulator. So what can ya do.

here's different phone focus. Once I get access to my consoles again I'll post again.

>>1396343

>>1396323
>>1396327
Looks like barrel distortion to me, maybe you could adjust that in a service menu.

>>1396362
Nope, it's actually not a geometry issue. I tried everything possible and noticed that it effects every aspect ratio. I need to check the other sources that aren't VGA.

>>1396380
Notice how the right side is extremely narrow. I'm pretty sure it's borked which is why my dad got sick of it. Still, works pretty well if you ask me.

>>1396389
Then it's horizontal non-linearity with barrel distortion.
Could be caused by dead capacitors.

Is a Sony Trinitron XBR a good choice for playing older games? All I have right now is a 22" LCD, some guy was selling a 36" for $40, don't know how good of condition yet.

I'm mainly getting it for lightgun games, but I'd probably hook my SNES/NES to it as well.

TFW you will never own the TV on which all your childhood video games were played, in perfect working condition.

TFW coaxial input only ;_;

>>1396473
seriously do not want
im happy with my trinitron now

>>1396473
Zenith Space Command, purchased by my dad in 1980.

ill probably be getting a Sony FD Triniton WEGA soon.

Its a KV-13FS110. only 13 inch screen due to space restrictions. anyone have experience w/ this monitor?

I'm trying to set up my Sony GDM-FW900 for 240p emulation. I created this custom resolution in Nvidia Control Panel, and the test worked fine, but it won't add it to the actual list of resolutions I can choose from. Is there something I'm missing?

>>1396516
I have a 13" WEGA with component inputs. No Svideo though. I really like it for Wii emulation.

>>1396517
I had the same problem, you need either an EDID adapter/dongle or Powerstrip.
But now i have a more worse problem with my GTX 460 SE, my system crashes when i set the resolution on secondary to 15khz.

>>1396530

This guy's posts seem to imply that you can do it without anything special.
>>1394376
>>1394379
>>1394382

I'm even more inclined to believe this, given that the resolution test displayed in 240p just fine.

>>1396473
>Perfect working condition
I can't do that, but I've still got one of my childhood TVs hanging around.

GE(Thomson) 25GT518
My mother uses it as a bedroom TV. Bought new towards the end of the 90s. As with yours, coaxial only.

The other set that I played on often was a small Sears model that looked extremely similar to pic related. Poor thing used to break every few months, at which point my father would drive it out to a nearby Sears to be repaired. That must have been my main TV until 2003/4, I believe due to them shutting down their CRT repair program.. Twin Lead only

>>1396540
>>1396530
The problem is likely that the monitor is identifying itself to Windows and Windows thinks it's incapable of the resolution, even though it is capable. If the resolution doesn't even show under the "advanced" button where all resolutions are listed you may have to pull a pin out of a VGA cable to keep the monitor from being identified. I've had to do this on a lot of older flat screens I wanted to use for PC displays.

>>1396473
The blue gun died on mine. 1983 model, lasted until 1999. Pic similar.

>>1396418
Digital XBR Wega TVs will not work with light guns. If it's a pre-digital SDTV Trinitron, it will work great.

>>1396547

>"advanced" button

Hm? Where is this?

>>1396540
I forgot to mention that Windows won't recognize resolutions lower than 480 lines.
Also i would like to use a 15khz Trinitron SCART TV as secondary monitor and it obviously can't display anything higher than 60hz.

>>1396547
I installed a I2C EEPROM for EDID in my VGA->SCART adapter, still crashes.
I made 10 attempts to output 15khz, all with the exact same result. (see pic)

>>1396560
Depends on your version of Windows

>>1389801
that actually looks pretty noice

>>1396517
try different DVI port on your video card

>>1396590

Why would that matter?

In any case, only one of the DVI ports supports VGA, so I'm using that one.

>>1396418

>Pros

It is an excellent display. Very luminous, amazing color, deep blacks, very accurate.

Speakers have a built in sub-woofer and are loud and powerful. One of the best sounding TVs ever made.

HDMI/DVI connection allows for RGB gaming through PC emulators.

>Cons
240p is not compatible. It will be upscanned to 480p.

16:10 aspect ratio isn't common in old games.

Slight lag. -very- slight.

>Summary

Yes, it's a great monitor for older games. 240p isn't everything in the world. Use it for playing older high-res PC pixel art games with a wide AR (think PC-98) in the proper emulators with the right amount of letterboxing on the sides and the results would be possible the very best looking you will ever see those games.


Besides, these things are some of the best TVs you'll ever have for watching television and blu-ray.

>>1396484
give it time.

>>1396517

Forget Nvidia control panel and use Soft 15khz or CRT_emu_driver.

>>1396620
Ugh, forgot CRT_emu_driver is only for ATI stuff.

But anyway, download soft 15khz and put these in a text file called custom31khz.txt and install 31khz mode:

modeline '240x240@58,795' 9,66 240 252 276 310 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '256x240@60,436' 10,6 256 272 296 336 240 244 247 261 -hsync -vsync
modeline '256x256@59,496' 10,72 256 268 292 330 256 257 260 273 -hsync -vsync
modeline '256x264@58,317' 10,7 256 268 292 330 264 265 268 278 -hsync -vsync
modeline '288x240@59,885' 11,68 288 296 328 368 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '296x240@59,941' 11,9 296 304 336 376 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '304x240@59,305' 12,4 304 320 352 396 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '320x240@59,014' 12,9 320 336 368 414 240 242 245 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '320x256@59,917' 13,36 320 340 372 416 256 257 260 268 -hsync -vsync
modeline '336x240@59,749' 13,66 336 352 384 433 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x256@59,697' 14,56 352 368 400 450 256 257 260 271 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x264@57,257' 14,7 352 365 405 452 264 265 268 284 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x288@51,116' 14,8 352 368 408 464 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync
modeline '368x240@59,196' 14,94 368 384 424 478 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '384x288@51,219' 15,7 384 400 440 496 288 289 292 309 -hsync -vsync
modeline '392x240@59,898' 16 392 408 448 504 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '400x256@52,419' 16,16 400 416 456 519 256 268 271 297 -hsync -vsync
modeline '448x240@60,01' 18,32 448 464 512 576 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '512x240@59,973' 21,36 512 544 600 672 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '512x288@50,939' 21,36 512 544 600 672 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync
modeline '632x264@56,751' 26 632 664 728 824 264 265 268 278 -hsync -vsync
modeline '640x240@59,96' 26,44 640 672 736 832 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '640x288@50,955' 26,2 640 672 736 832 288 289 292 309 -hsync -vsync

>>1396620
>>1396632
He is trying to add 256x240 120 Hz / 30 kHz on his GDM FW900 Just like I did. But now we are trying to figure out why he can't see custom resolution in emu.

>>1396639
From the soft15khz page:
>Note: The NVidia GeForce 8-, 9- and GTX series require an EDID-Dongle for resolutions below 512x384.

>>1396645
that's only for 15 kHz resolutions

>>1396645

So how did the other guy do it? Old video card?

>>1396657
I've got GTX 460 too.

>>1396659

Then I don't understand. What happens when you click 'OK' in the window here: >>1396517

Does it add 256x240 to the list of resolutions in Windows?

I just bought a RICA TruFlat, but it has really bad pixel bleed.

>>1396678
When i click OK. I have this resolution listed here. (pic rel)

But it does not add it to the list of resolution in Windows.

Try edit your "fullscreen resolution" in emu config file to 256x240.

>>1396697

Yeah, mine doesn't do that.

>>1396702
Click on that pencil -> Test -> Yes -> Yes and then OK.

>>1396706

>>1396706
>>1396708

Deleted it, recreated it, tested it, still doesn't show up.

>That feel when I have to get rid of an amazing CRT I've had for 20 years because I just don't have the room or it anymore.

It's such a shame to get rid of something that hasn't had trouble in 20 years but hopefully someone who needs it more than me will buy it.

>>1396710
So let's assume that it is currently added. Can you see that resolution listed in emu? Have you tried to edit config file of emulator, the part where it says "fullscreen resolution" or something similar.

>>1396718

>Can you see that resolution listed in emu?

Nope. Only emulator I've tried is Kega Fusion, and its config file doesn't let you directly edit full screen resolution.

>>1396720
Add 320x240 @ 120 Hz instead otherwise Fusion Kega won't list it.

>>1396726

Done.

>>1396720
Kega Fusion automatically uses 100hz/120hz resolutions if your monitor supports them, from what I remember. Could be wrong - it was back in 2006 that I tested this, and on a fairly high-end CRT monitor (syncmaster 795MB). I have no idea how it behaves on modern displays.

But it also has a special ini-file-only advanced resolution mode editor where you can set all sorts of combinations.

>>1396726
>Add 320x240 @ 120 Hz instead otherwise Fusion Kega won't list it.

You should be using 640x480 for Kega, in order to support hi-res titles (all... three of them).

Or even better using 1280x960 so the 32H games work in the correct resolution without being improperly stretched out, and without Kega flipping the fuck out and switching resolutions every time a game changes it.

>>1396735
I have no idea why you don't have it listed.

>>1396740

>You should be using 640x480 for Kega

If I do that, all games display in that resolution.

>>1396616
16:10 is exactly the aspect ratio of MSX games and, I assume PC-x8 games as well. When I play Illusion City on my SDCRT and HDLCD at the same time, the d-pad/compass isn't round on either of them.

>>1396735
Try adding that resolution with PowerStrip then.

>>1396771

Uh...

>>1396742
Well yeah. But they are all stretched by a positive integer, so it looks the exact same. Most modern CRTs display resolutions as low as 320x240 by internally upsampling to 640x480 anyway.

In fact this is why you should be using 1280x960, that way you have 320x240, 320x480, and 256x240 games all running in the correct aspect ratio and stretched by a non-fractional number.

The Megadrive is one machine that does not output any resolution that you need to manually program your videocard for.

Also, if you want the screen to look like a 240p display, use 480p and enable scanlines in the emulator... it is the exact same thing, in fact it may look closer to actual 240p due to monitors internally upsampling 320x240 to 640x480.

>>1396792

>so it looks the exact same

No it doesn't. It has twice as many scan lines as it's supposed to, and it looks terrible. The goal here is to get true 240p. No filters, no effects.

>>1396792
>due to monitors internally upsampling 320x240 to 640x480.
Most PC monitors won't. You're left with razor-thin, eye-scorching 240p scanlines on a tightly focused PC monitor.

>>1396797
>No it doesn't. It has twice as many scan lines as it's supposed to, and it looks terrible. The goal here is to get true 240p. No filters, no effects.

But 240p on consoles was a 480 line display with every other scanline left blank.

They used a trick where they manipulated the 480i signal to not switch the odd/even fields after vblank, thereby only using one half of the scanlines for display and leaving the other half empty. This gave them a nice, flicker free signal.

So yeah, 480p with 100% scanline effects enabled in Kega = 240p.

>>1396849
The brightness of the beam changes if you're doing 480p with 100% scanlines. Less time striking any given point on the screen, less brightness.

>>1396850
Doesn't change the fact that that's how the consoles displayed 240p in the first place.

What games do you guys use to test how good a CRT looks?

Would it be worth picking this up for around 300$-ish?

20" PVM for 85$ but shipping is over 200$. I have only seen 14"ers for sale locally.

>>1396871
No. Just wait until you can find one with cheaper shipping.

>>1396871
No

>>1396860
It's not, though. 480p with a scanline filter means you're spending around 30 microseconds scanning a line, and then 30 microseconds scanning nothing, and then 30 scanning the next line, etc. "Proper" 240p at 15KHz scans line after line, 63microseconds to a line, just like 480i TV. The spatial position of the lines is changed because the vertical sync is slightly faster (now an integer multiple of the line rate), but temporally you're still performing a 15KHz scan.

How about a Sony trinitron PVM-3230 for 250$? I would have to arrange pickup for it.

>>1396886

A 32" PVM would weigh more than your car. Don't pay more than $100 for one of these things, they're not that rare.

>>1396867
Metal Slug

>>1396517

Custom resolutions work fine for me on my setup.

And yes, there's a reason why the horizontal resolutions are super high, it's so I can display games of different horizontal resolutions without having to swap resolutions and just simply scaling them to fit instead. Especially useful for PSX games that can change their resolution on the fly.

>>1396928

Why in the world wouldn't it work for me then?

>>1396885

In practice, the only difference between 240p 120hz and 480p 60hz + 100% scanlines is motion quality and brightness. 120hz introduces frame doubling that causes you to see double images when scrolling, while the other reduces brightness. Enabling Black Frame Insertion on 240p 120hz also reduces brightness while eliminating the effects of frame doubling, and the end result is pretty much exactly the same as 480p + scanlines although frame rate discrepancies will be very noticeable.

Using higher resolutions like 960p with emulated scanlines results in more blooming than doing so with 480p due to the raster scan being less focused. Some may prefer this particular "240p look" over what the monitor actually displays at 240p/480p.

Various shots taken from my 17 inch dot mask Dell monitor comparing different display modes:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/gvw08wlvbom5xyj/ECeJQRPUsR

>>1396928
>Dell E771p
My E770 has been slowly going shit. I wonder how hard it would be to find a 771p. Are they good CRT monitors?

>>1396962

As said earlier, it's possible your monitor's EDID is telling it to not display that resolution. My monitor does some weird things like force all standard 1280 width resolutions to scale to 1280x1024. I got around that by setting non-standard resolutions like 1280x960 65hz that didn't do that.

You could try doing EDID overrides with this utility:

http://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-Custom-Resolution-Utility-CRU

I haven't needed to use this since every non-standard resolution I've used works fine in my emulator of choice

>>1396969

It's great for low res images of older games, still good for larger resolutions like 1280x960 so it can display newer games as well. It can do 1080p but it can't resolve all pixels due to dot pitch not being fine enough. It also won't let you use 1440x1080, but you can use 1442x1080 or some other horizontal resolution.

>>1397002
I've managed(and am currently using) 1440x1050 with DisplayFusion, but its picture is starting to get soft and really dark(max brightness/contrast doesn't even match my Asus LCD)

>>1394345
I have this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/PC-Laptop-VGA-To-AV-RCA-S-Video-Composite-TV-Converter-Adapter-Signal-Switch-Box-/400426517540?pt=UK_Computing_Sound_Vision_Video_Cables_Adapters&hash=item5d3b47c424

Works pretty good with my PC, it looks great over RCA and phenomenal on S-video.

Good entry level crt for retro gaming?

>>1397026
Late 90's/Early 00's Trinitron with S-Video and Component.

>>1396792
>Most modern CRTs display resolutions as low as 320x240 by internally upsampling to 640x480 anyway.

No, they don't. They only display what is sent to them, or they display an "out of range" message. The limitation is within your software and video card.

Almost every PC CRT monitor made past the mid-90s can do 240p@120hz just fine.

>>1396849
>So yeah, 480p with 100% scanline effects enabled in Kega = 240p.

It isn't. There are a dozen other factors at work making a proper low-res image, and putting a black line between every other line of graphics isn't going to cut it.

>>1397017
1440x1050 is a bit off from 4:3 though resulting in non-square pixels, which I like my desktop resolution to have. 1400x1050 is 4:3 and is actually a standard resolution (SXGA+). I was able to set that custom resolution without any issues so I may start using that for high resolution stuff from now on.

>>1397071
I usually leave it at XGA, but was using my main monitor for something else, and trying to do anything at that res anymore is just difficult.

>>1396867

Good question. Might be a good topic for the next CRT general.

I think you want to use a game with plenty of deep blacks and bright whites, and vibrant colors.

The CPS2 games have some built in reference patterns and color bars, along with a few other titles.

Look for a scene in a game that quickly shifts from a normal screen to a bright white screen. If you see the image shifting or warping that can mean the CRT is either of poor quality overall, or it is near the end of its lifespan.
Similarly if you can see faint white lines running through the screen on bright scenes it is a bad sign.

If you can't see a true black that means the display is either improperly set up, or it is REALLY old. But be sure the black you are looking at is really black, and not a dark gray.

One of my favorite games to use as demo material is Vampire Savior. R-type Leo is also very pretty in its opening stages.

>>1396871
Hell no. Where are you?

>>1396962
Are you using the BNC or VGA connectors?

Anything with a BNC connector on the back. You see these, it usually means quality.

>>1397085
Both of the CRTs I bought specifically for vidya ended up getting tested with a Dreamcast, a system I've still yet to do much with; In part due to what I think may be a dying laser.

>>1397091
Vancouver, BC

The PVM is located in Edmonton, the next pronvince over.

>>1396867
A DVD with a NTSC test pattern.

>>1397085
>Similarly if you can see faint white lines running through the screen on bright scenes it is a bad sign.

Extra note: These lines are retrace lines, and usually mean bad caps or a broken flyback transformers.

They ARE NOT the two faint black lines visible on aperture grille displays on white screens. Those are completely normal.

>>1396871
>>1397117
I saw that one on Ebay. The shipping for myself in the United States is like $325.

>>1397117
Yeah, you don't need to go spending anything for shipping. You should be able to find something in the city.

http://www.pss.gov.bc.ca/air/

Ever been here? Look under public sales. If you're lucky you will find something for next to nothing. If you're super lucky you'll find a half dozen of them. Also a good place to get contacts who might have what you're looking for. Especially look for guys in the used medical and lab equipment business.

You know there's a XBR960 on your craigslist for one hundred bucks?

Question for you guys:
Is it possible to mod an RGB input onto a CRT TV?

>>1397154
Yes, but it is quite an advanced project.

so i picked up a tv with BNC in and an s-video in. i'm planning on using s-video to connect all my consoles, is this a good call?

>>1397185
Hey barrelass, S-Video stands for SUPER video. What do you think!?

What would be the best way to go about connecting a PC to a CRT TV whose best input is composite? I know the active convertors for VGA to composite either have horrible lag or look like poop. PCI video cards with composite out are hard to come by. I've heard you can passively convert S-video to composite; if so, would this not look as good as normal composite?

>>1397235

The best way is to use a RGB > composite video encoder. But for the price of one of those you can just get a different tv...

Fixing the geometry and convergence on my PVM20L2 can be a bitch.

Any tips on making this easier? I'm half tempted to find some ISF calibrator or a CRT TV Repair shop to do it for me.

No matter how much I try, I can't get the geometry to look right.

>>1397339
>No matter how much I try, I can't get the geometry to look right.

Stop fiddling with it.

I mean it. Get it "good", and then stop it. CRTs almost never have perfect geometry and convergence, and you'll drive yourself mad trying to get them that way.

Show us a photo of a grid or convergence pattern.

Is a Sony KV24FV300 a good CRT?

>>1397379

Yes.

>>1396323
How about, don't stretch a 4:3 game to widescreen.

>>1396616
XBR is either 16:9 or 4:3.

>>1397390

Pic is a 4:3 model, I just fucked up. Everything else is still true.

I'd like to have an XBR800 for use with the high resolution texture packs for retro titles coming out these days.

>>1397085
>Good question. Might be a good topic for the next CRT general.
How is this current thread, with almost half its bump life remaining, not adequate for addressing this question?

>If you see the image shifting or warping that can mean the CRT is either of poor quality overall, or it is near the end of its lifespan.
You phrased this perfectly. It *can* mean the tube is failing, but in other cases this phenomenon has nothing to do with any part of the display itself.

>>1397191
That's weird. I always thought it stands for SEPARATE because the chrominance is on a separate wire and that is freeing up the bandwidth on the luminance which can be used to carry a sharper picture.

>>1397492
The other time you'll see it is when someone has set the contrast or color levels too high and it is putting strain on the power supply, or is of an older design that can't handle those levels. The best CRTs will keep a steady image even with a really big change in brightness.

so i've got a PVM monitor with RGB and S-Video input/output.

What i'd like to know is which systems I can display on this unit effectively and how. The systems I currently have are:
Famicom
NTSC NES
SNES mini
Sega Genesis model 2
PS1

i'm unsure if I should be using a BNC adapters for composite or the S-video adapters?

Are there any console modifications needed?

>>1397810
>Famicom, NTSC NES
Only composite for NES and RF for FC.
Modification for RGB: Get a PC10 PPU or the NESRGB kit
Modification for FC composite: Install a amp.
>SNES mini
Only composite.
Modification for RGB: Just solder 3 wires, that should be easy.
http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=av:snes2rgb
S-Video is a little bit harder:
http://www.gamesx.com/rgbadd/snes2svid.htm
>PS1
Get a suitable cable for either RGB or S-Video.

>>1397821

right now i'm using a 20" Dell trinitron monitor @ 2240x1680.
waiting on a brand new 22" ViewSonic. id love to be able to push it to 2560x1920.

since it's kinda cold outside i figure i should wait to turn it on after receiving it considering the condensation. maybe open up the case and take a hair dryer to it lol. anyone have any recommendations?

>>1397920
Let it warm up in the box. That should keep it fairly isolated from the humid air in your house and let it warm up slowly since it'll be pretty insulated as well.

>>1397795
Yet another is when something in your signal chain either causes or fails to tolerate a voltage burst that would lead your display (or any intermediate device like an image processor) to lose sync partially. Bad enough cases can cause your display to lose sync completely, and can be the result of anything from a low-bandwidth video switch being used for high-bandwidth video, source devices running voltage levels too high on video output, or finicky displays/processors.

>>1397868
And RGB for the Genesis as well.

>>1397821
>>PS1
>Get a suitable cable for either RGB or S-Video.

Or, conversely, just use a PS2 with component.

Do I need to do anything special to hook up an NTSC wii too my sony PVM with RGB? Can I just buy a scart cable?

>>1397246
Okay, fair enough. But would the quality of S-video passively converted to composite be worse than normal composite? I play video games over composite all the time, and it doesn't really bother me. I'm just trying to do this as cheaply as possible, and I'm not super anal about pristine sharpness. If it looks as good as one of my actual consoles would look over composite, I can deal, at least until I have enough disposable income to get a newer TV.

>>1397821
>>1398090
>>1398104
thanks everyone, i'm in heaven now.

>>1398319
Also worth noting, you can get a taste of all your systems in glorious 240p by using your Wii to emulate with RetroArch, which has video modes to match the retro consoles and can output Component video.

>>1398265
>NTSC wii
>RGB
Nope, you can get either S-Video or component.
If the inputs of the PVM are labeled as R/R-Y, G/Y B/B-Y then you could use component instead.

>>1398335
oh I can plug component into those?

>>1398341
Yessir - you will need to switch a setting in your menu though, probably something about sync or color stream.

Does anyone have a ps3/xbox360 hooked up to something to downscale 480p to 240p and then hooked up to a CRT? Specifically a good one like a P/BVM

How does it look and would it be worth doing?

>>1398676
PS3 and 360 already output 480i natively. PS4 looks acceptable through an external downscaler once you set it to 480p.

>>1398681
Yeah I know they can do 480i with component but I was more wondering what they look like in 240p. Mostly for the psn/xbla stores old game ports. Also Im really curious as to what a modern game meant to run at 720p would look like in 240p lol

>>1398740
I think a lot of the old ports don't run in an exactly line doubled mode, so if you scaled it down to 240p you're not going to get a nice result. Lots of misplaced pixels.

Some guy on shmups did it a while back, and while he seemed happy with just being able to play on his cab in 240p, I think I'd rather go with 480i.

Now, if a game DOES use an exactly doubled resolution you might have some nice images.


A modern game meant for 720p would look very shitty in 240p. If it's a pixel based game you're going to lose detail that can change the nature of gameplay, like potentially invisible bullets.

I've been having this issue for about two years now but it's really starting to drive me crazy since it's happening so constantly (Enough that I could even take the pictures in the first place.)

Basically the blue phosphor is wigging out. I don't know if something got damaged in a move, but it will constantly turn itself off and leave only red and green on screen, then bring it back for a few minutes, only to turn off again. The TV seems to have its on and off seasons, where usually it will fuck up like this for the first few minutes of turning the TV on, but if you leave it on for a while, it will go back to normal and will be fine so long as you leave the TV on. Now it's constant, though. Does anyone know what the problem could be exactly? Is it something that could be easily fixed or is the TV junk? I really don't want to get rid of it, as SDTVs with component are few and far between where I am.

I've been meaning to replace it with a PVM ever since it started happening in early 2012 but it seems like every time one shows up on Craigslist the only way to contact them is by e-mail and they never give me a response.

>>1397158
I have an RCA 20f420T TruFlat with S-Video and composite inputs.
Is there a way to tell, without opening it, how hard it would be to implement RGB?

It'd be nice to get it fully working with RGB, as I think it's an aperture grille TV

>>1398794
Up until a few months ago, I used my 360 via RCA cables (into a coax converter!) with a maybe 24-inch CRT.

For most ports (SotN, D&D, Simpsons, X-Men etc.) everything looked great except sometimes it would seem very "sharp" and pixelly, less like the original hardware and more like emulating on a CRT PC monitor with no filters. I didn't have a problem with this as I value pixel clarity over everything else.

I also played a bunch of modern games on it too; the entire Mass Effect trilogy for one. I was able to complete most of the game with no problems but some text like emails and codex entries would be so small that if I wanted to read them, I needed to sit a foot away from the TV and squint. I also played through he entirety of Borderlands in coop; would not recommend.

I have since upgraded to a 35-inch CRT with RGB cables for my 360 and RCA for everything else. My 360 has never looked better; now games like SOTN look great.

>>1399083
>I also played through he entirety of Borderlands in coop

>>1398887
It might be a sign that your TV is on the way out. The only thing that could fix it would be a local TV repair shop.

I would suggest looking for a PVM when you get a chance, or a different Trinitron from Craigslist in the mean time.

Sorry to hear your TV is flipping out, I know them feels.

>>1393947
Ah, good times.

>>1399083
>My 360 has never looked better; now games like SOTN look great.
It looks even better when it's got correct 240p output

>>1398887
Could be something wrong with the video amp, or anything else in the signal path. Check for visible defects. Worse, could be a failing gun in the CRT - you'd need specialized equipment to test for this, but it may be fixable with a tube rejuvenator (essentially burns off oxidation from cathodes).

>>1398265
you can achieve rgb through scart on ntsc wii. The system menu will be red, but when you load games in wiiflow you can force them to pal50/60. And they will work fine. Only downside to this is that pal VC games suck so sick with component for them.

>>1389634
>Also XMs have a smoothness to the image which can't be matched by aperture grille displays.
A shadow mask advocate, we have our equivalent of the valve "audiophile" now.

>>1399698
CRTs are already the equivalent of audiophiles and their love of vinyl.

Shadow masks do have a less delineated image. You'd have to be blind to think otherwise.

>>1399698
It's actually been the opposite everywhere else up til recently. I was glad to see /vr/ was interested in PVMs and the like because I pushed them for literally years on the various retro arcade boards, and people never really "got" it that they were better than arcade monitors in general. They were all obsessed with GE and Electrohome dot-triad stuff left over from the early 80s.

I would always run into people saying the image was -too- sharp, and colors didn't blend properly on them. Or they didn't work for vertical games because it would look like you were playing the game on the side of a rolling barrel. Both of course a load of BS.

It's only in the past two or three years that a lot of people have woke up to how useful and valuable all this old pro equipment has become. And it will probably keep going for a little while. I'm already starting to see craigslist posts referencing how the can be use for gaming, and the prices are going up a bit.

Now, as far as which type of display is better, and if shadow masks are "smoother"? Yeah, they can be. I prefer my older games to be played on one because it gives me a bigger feeling of nostalgia. However, it's really a question of better vs "accurate" (take that accurate with a grain of salt).

A real nice aperture grille display is probably going to be the best you will ever see an old game look. Probably better than even the devs ever saw it. And the one they would prefer IF they could have put it in a cab or let players play at home on one.

But dot triads are what were in most people's homes and arcade cabs, and it's the way the games were seen in the past. If you want to evoke that elusive arcade-feeling image. you'll go with it.

Also note the NEC XM doesn't use a dot triad. It uses a much more advanced style of shadow mask, and it wouldn't less any detail at all compared to a PVM. It's just a matter of preference.

Help me out /crtg/, my Trinitrons picture needs a slight geometry correction and I found out about the service mode

>STANDBY=>DISPLAY=>5=>VOLUME(+) =>POWER

Works fine but I end up here, what thell am I doing?
The videos I looked up just threw them directly into the service menu

>>1400027

After doing this, push the standard menu button and you'll find advanced options. Write down EVERYTHING before touching anything, then try to check on the service manual which option is related to the geometry. If none are, I think you would have to open you monitor and get a test pattern generator and an isolated screwdriver.

>>1400036

Thanks, worked like a charm

Yeah I know, heard you should never reset to the factory settings?

>>1400046
>tfw i dont even have a factory reset in my trini

>>1400063
None of mine do either but as I understand it the settings are individually tuned for every one as it leaves the factory.

>>1400063

Old 70's/80's model with knobs in the back? It's the same with my Amiga monitor.

>>1400067
Nah, 21" flat screen

>>1400027

Me again, what's the difference between VSIZ and SCOR?

I can figure all out except SCOR. VSIZ is obviously the vertical picture size, but from the looks of it all it does is also change the vertical size

>>1400027
http://www.avsforum.com/t/531494/the-sony-service-codes-articles-comments-discoveries

Here's the start. You'll need to do a bit of reading before jumping in. Main thing is to take it very slow.

What kind of geometry problem are we talking about? Show us a grid.

>>1400084
Have you written everything down yet?

>>1400096

Made pictures, not gonna write a block about it

>>1400101

Made pictures, not gonna write a block about it

>>1400092

Pretty much this, think I got the hang of it, might take a while to improve upon it but for now its way better.

Worst case scenerio I still have my pictures

>>1400084
>SCOR
I think that COR part stands for correction.
In my 90s Trinitron there is a trimmer called "CORNER COR." which obviously stands for corner correction (pincushion).

>>1400115

>>1400101
was supposed to be
>>1400096

One thing I want to make perfectly, 100% clear to everyone calibrating their TVs:

You may or may not be the final owner of this display, and the next owner would be best served by having the original factory calibration settings available (at the very least).

When I trade/sell one of my displays, I always undo all calibrations and offer my suggested/used settings on a sheet of paper. When I shop for displays, I only pick up displays that (a) have factory settings or (b) were calibrated professionally (not by Johnny McRandom Dipshit).

>>1400439
I will add that the business of calibration is extremely tricky and deep. You will run into a dozen different opinions and methods if you research the subject across the various boards, and even in places like AVSforum there is a lot of conflicting information.

It's a rabbit hole that just goes deeper and deeper.

Just my opinion, but the best things to do in the service are limited to:

>fix overscan
No brainer. A lot of displays are set way too conservatively at the factory, especially Sony brands.

>tweak geometry/convergence
This can get a little out of alignment over time. But the key is to know when to call good enough.

>remove color push
A lot of televisions push red to make colors "pop". Get rid of that shit.

>turn off noise filters/sharpness
Some TVs have a built in DNR feature that you can't turn off in the normal menu. Again, get rid of that shit and any other sharpening you don't need. You're going to feed it a clear, high quality signal.

Other than that, the business of color temp/black levels, etc could fill a dozen CRT threads. Usually you just want to pick whatever "warm" setting your display may feature and forget about it.

Black levels...oh boy.

>>1400474
Is it bad that I prefer 9300k over 6500k?

Everything just looks too yellow otherwise.

>>1400439
>You may or may not be the final owner of this display, and the next owner would be best served by having the original factory calibration settings available (at the very least).
And what if the TV has only trimmers for adjustment, also no service menu?

>>1400482
Your ambient lighting may not be ideal. That's what the higher color temps are meant to compensate. Plus, if you don't already, you should give your eyes time to adjust before comparing them. If you flash from one to the other, the effect can be too jarring and your instinct might be one of immediate shock and rejection. Over time, warmer pictures are less fatiguing and more natural under lower, more natural light.

>>1400501
You might still be able to mark shipped defaults with tape or pencil.

>>1400518
>under lower, more natural light.
What if I play without light? i.e The only source of illumination coming from the screen itself.

>>1400524
You're still good, but I'd recommend a little additional light for your eyes' sake. Otherwise leave color temp at 6500K but bump the contrast down a bit.

Dreamcast via Composite. Can anyone tell me what's up with the white bar towards the right side?

>>1400474
I was reading some youtube comments about "the best way to align the geometry is through a standard TV overscan, which I assumed to be what was available in the 240p Test Suite made by Artemis. The test pattern with the red squares all around?

What's the happy medium? I'd like to be able to fill up my entire screen and know full well that depending on the input and console it's going to change.

Pic is what I wish I could get my PVM to diplay.

>>1400618
Overscan, just like playing NES on a modern TV.

Adjust the picture on your TV so it's slightly wider.

are we ever going to see SED developed into a consumer product?

>>1400923
Nope. Locked up in patent hell.

>>1400618
Stop whining faggot.

Anyone know anything about the PVM-20M4A? Is it a good model? Here's a pic of the inputs on the back...

>>1401057

... and the controls on the front.

>>1400880
How? I'm a noob at this.

>>1401057
Well, it does all the important formats - composite, S-video, RGB, and component.

>>1401057
It's the higher resolution type (800 lines), and component support is handy for wii emulation, just pick up some cheap BNC->RCA adapters. If it's in your price range I'd definitely go for it. I have the low resolution 14" model from the same general era with all the same knobs, buttons, and connectors and I love mine

All the CRTs in the world will eventually break and there will be none left.

>>1401072

Well it doesn't have SCART, but eh. I'll live.

>>1401092
> just pick up some cheap BNC->RCA adapters

So I just buy a bunch of pic related, put them in and I can just leave them there, changing cables as I please? Noob question I know but that's exactly what I am when it comes to this.

>>1401105
Time to start replacing capacitors. ;_;7

>>1401116
Only a temporary fix, even copper wire itself eventually wears out.

>>1401109
You should be able to make your own SCART adapter pretty easily. I'm pretty sure that all the PVMs that do Component and RGB on the same inputs can use CSync which makes life a LOT easier. You're extremely unlikely to find a monitor in the US with Euro style SCART, even pro monitors.

>>1401119
The sun will eventually burn out and then eventually the universe will collapse in upon itself so why do anything?

>>1401109
If you're using cables that terminate in RCA, yeah. Though if you're going through the trouble of getting an RGB monitor, you really should be investing(or making) a SCART breakout cable, which should be able to just connect directly(as in via BNC)

>>1401116
Can't replace a dead gun.

>>1400524
I don't do it anymore since my eyesight has started to deteriorate.

Also, just my opinion, but a little well placed ambient lighting seems to bring out the best blacks and dimensionality in my CRTs.

>>1401126
So what, get a small lamp or something?

>>1401057
looks good to me, bub

>>1401105
Make em' from scratch. They used to sell kits, or at least that's what the old guys I used to know in the EE lab said they did when they were kids.

>>1401134
sure

>>1401121
>>1401124

Could you give me an example of what I'd be using or making?

>>1401149
Sure can.

>>1401149

>>1401151
>>1401159

Ah OK, cool. That's pretty much what I imagined it would be. Thanks for the help guys!

Anyone have any experience with the XRGB-mini Framemeister? Is it a good alternative? I have a 55" Samsung TV and limited space.

>>1401061
anyone?

>>1401151

What's the black BNC?

>>1401259
Sync

>>1400923
>>1400929

>Canon officially announced on 25 May 2010 the end of the development of SED TVs for the home consumer market,[26] but indicated that they will continue development for commercial applications like medical equipment. On 18 August 2010, Canon decided to liquidate SED Inc.,[27] a consolidated subsidiary of Canon Inc. developing SED technology, citing difficulties to secure appropriate profitability and effectively ending hopes to one day see SED TVs in the living room.

How's the 14N6A? I can get one for $30 and it appears to have all the inputs I'd want.

>>1401374
It'll work just fine, so long as you're only planning on using RGB; It won't accept component video signals from say, a PS2 or Wii.

>>1401379

That's a shame because I have some GC component cables that cost me a bit. Is SCART available for GC, PS2 and XBox?

>>1401392
Yes, but only PAL GC can output RGB.

The component cable can be modified to output RGB, but I wouldn't go messing around with such an expensive cable.

>>1401396
>Yes, but only PAL GC can output RGB.

Ah, well mine's PAL so that's good, but yeah I think I'll leave the cable alone.

Are those multi console scart cables a good buy?

>>1401464

No they aren't most of the time, most of them don't have the RGB wired.

>>1401480

So they are in effect composite?

>>1401484
SCART as a standard is capable of carrying composite, so yes.

>>1401484

Or sometimes Y/V aka S-Video.

>>1401489
no, Y/C (luma/chroma)

>>1401494

Oops, thanks for correcting me anon.

>Trinitron KV-21

There any way to input a test grid for the purpose of geometry adjustment? There some preinstalled ones?

Looking for smallish CRT monitor for quite a long now but they are still pricey where I live.

This one is some 150€. Sony 9040.

do old HDCRT's have HDMI ports ?

>>1401836
Most of them don't. Component only.

>>1400618
Damn, I forgot what that looked like. Of course I have to whip out the composites every time I play Bangai-O because the motherfucker doesn't support VGA.

>>1401848

The fact that it doesn't support VGA doesn't mean it can't be played with RGB.

>>1401862
You sure about that, Chief?

>>1401869

Yes, you just need the right cable anon.

>>1401862
>>1401874
Sorry yeah didn't notice the "doesn't" - I thought you were saying something dumb.

>>1401379
I never used it myself but I always thought that the PS2 could do RGB using the component cables

>>1401498
do you have a Wii or a Dreamcast? You can use the Genesis/MD version on Wii with an emulator set to 240p output or simply burn a selfbooting CD for dreamcast.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/testsuite240p/?source=navbar

>>1401897
Component cables =/= RGB cables. You would only select the RGB option if you were using, say, RGB SCART.

I could be wrong, as I don't have anything to try it with, but I really doubt it'll work.

>>1401897
>>1401907
It can. Even though the RGB mode is intended for use with a SCART cable, it uses the same pins so it will output RGB over a "component" cable as long as it has acomposite cable to use for sync (andyour monitor supports Csync)

>>1401897
component isnt RGB
green cable sends luma & sync
red sends the difference between red and luma
blue sends the difference between blue and luma

so if your pvm doesnt have

R-Y Y B-Y on the back it wont take component

ps2 can do rgb through a scart and then you could get a scart to bnc breakout and connect it though

>>1401936
did you even view the image or read
>>1401923
before posting?

>>1401904

Neither, there a way to do the same with a chipped PSX or chipped PS2?

>>1401923
I can confirm that this works. If I use my 'murican component cables, set the PS2 to RGB, and force a VGA video mode on boot (using a modchip) I can use it with my FW900. Needs RCA->BNC pluglets but it works.

>>1401836
>>1401845
Sony was an early adopter, so many of their High-Scan and XBR Wega sets have HDMI. Those that don't, have DVI. Even if you find one with only component, you can buy a "UD" board and use that. (Their earliest DVI-capable sets were literally just component-only designs with a separate DVI->component decoder tacked on.)

>>1402025
PS2 yes, PGEN. If you just want an ISO to burn because you have no file manager installed here's one.

http://www.theisozone.com/downloads/playstation/emulators/multi-emulator-with-2500-roms-for-ps2-nessnesgenesis/

Thinking about grabbing a 9'' PVM or two(Composite and S-Video only)

$30 shipped a good deal?

What are the best cables I can get for my unmodded consoles?

So far I thought it was like this;
NES -> composite
SNES -> RGB scart
N64 -> S-video
GameCube -> RGB scart (it's a PAL one and if I'm right these can output RGB)

I'm not sure if this is right at all, so I'd like to get some opinions on this.

>>1402320
That is correct.

>>1402323
Thanks

>>1401923

The PS2 can do sync on green in 480p. You can use a set of component cables plus phono > BNC adapters to accomplish it.

If you have a cable like this one laying around you can plug the component video into your RGB, and the composite cable into your composite input.

Then, in games that support progressive scan you start up the PS2 on your composite input, go into settings and select RGB. Then start up your game and do the correct button combination to switch to 480p. THEN change over to the RGB channel of your monitor and you will get an RGB 480p image. It can look very nice.

If you're ghetto like me, you can also accomplish this with two monitors, one 31khz and one 15khz.

The PS2 was kind of stupidly made. RGBS in one mode, RGsB in another.

>>1402384
Note this is for monitors that don't support component video. Otherwise all this rigamarole is unnecessary.

But a PS2 running in 480p on a nice big PC CRT is a thing of beauty.

>>1402302

I'd just save up another 20 bucks and go for a bigger one with RGB.

why do pvms even use BNC connectors? why not just normal RCA

>>1402407
Because BNC connectors are superior and PVMs are professional equipment. You don't want to lose sync from a jiggled cable during the halftime show at Superbowl XXX

>>1402407
More secure connection, and I believe the way they handle grounding is supposed to be superior to RCA.

>>1402407

Because BNC is superior to RCA in every way, they also are secured when correctly plugged in.

>>1402394
I already have one, I'd just would mind having a few smaller ones that I could mess around with.

>>1402450
wouldn't

since people were talking about component earlier i have a question. ive read that original snes's rgb isnt that great and the jr. is better. ive also read that some early snes's could do a component mod. Would component look better than rgb or is it gonna be the same

>>1402450

>Geometry_grid_of_hell.iff.info

>>1402457

Pic related.

>>1402457
The component video is going to be derived from the onboard RGB, so any issues with it will probably be passed on to the component signal.

Truth is, the very best looking you will ever see an SNES game is through an emulator.

>>1402457

Pic related.

Also, the picture isn't "too bright" if you have the right capacitor on your RGB cable. Mine isn't too bright at all as it's the original Yuro SCART cable with a Yuro SNES.

>>1402457
>early snes's could do a component mod. Would component look better than rgb or is it gonna be the same
The reason why the encoder outputs component is because the IC lacks internal filters for chrominance so it is done with external components.
I think the reason for the less sharp RGB output is because of the bipolar transistor amplifier stage for RGB, the newer models have newer encoders with built-in RGB amplifiers which are more superior.

>>1402465
>right capacitor on your RGB cable
That's actually incorrect. The PAL SNES outputs a too strong RGB, Y/C, Composite signal with an DC offset of 2-3V (i saw it myself with an oscilloscope). So a additional termination resistor of 75 ohms and a 220µF capacitor afterwards are required for the proper output. Also there's a diode on the RGB output stage which result into that 'fade-to-black' effect when a wrong cable is used.