/vr/ - Retro Games

Zeliard

Sorcerian

Adventure Island 4 (NES)
Super Adventure Island 2 (SNES)

Rest of the series are just regular platformers.

Ufouria is a great little Metroidvania for the NES. Its also pretty damn rare.

does Link's Adventure fit the bill?

>>1384585

What game is in the OP picture?

>>1384795
I think the top-down overworld areas kind of disqualify it.

>>1384715
Adventure Island 4 is like SAI2? Shit I might have to try that. I fucking loved SAI2.

>>1384809
Legacy of the Wizard / Dragon Slayer IV

>>1384795

Its a bit different from what I'm looking for. It's been a while since I last played Zelda II, but IIRC its a bit more combat orientated and less about exploring / puzzles than some of the games mentioned here.

>>1384812

Yup. It's a pretty good game to boot.

Also OP, Rygar.

>>1384585
>2D RPGs in Japan well before Metroid.

not one single game you listed is an RPG or was released before Metroid.

>>1384585
>Maze of Galious
But Metroid predates most or all of these games.

It would be silly to think it was the first side-scrolling action/adventure or action/rpgs, or one of the few games in a genre, though. It used to be a very popular genre in the 80s.

>>1384585
Really one of the greatest /vr/ game genres, they feel so boundless and have such a sense of adventure to them, you can easily stumble around for hours and keep finding new things and get lost in the worlds they create.

Neogaf put together a pretty extensive list of side scrolling adventure games a few years back, and I still go back and reference it for new games from time to time.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=371433

>>1384721
>Ufouria is a great little Metroidvania for the NES
Wolfenstein 3D is a great little HaloCOD for DOS.

>>1384858
>what is portmanteau

>>1384841
>>1384850

I seem to have underestimated how old Metroid is. Chalk it down to my lack of knowledge with retro vidya. Thanks for the correction.

>>1384848
This is fantastic, pretty much what I was looking for in the first place.

>>1384858
>>1385086
I was hoping this board would be devoid of inane bickering like this.

>>1384858
You're the cancer killing /vr/. I advise that you drop your trip to save yourself any more embarrassment.

bump for intetrest

>>1385773
Yeah this could be a good, interesting and educational thread if the sperglotds don't shit it up.

The NES/FC version of Valis, which is a textbook example of how NOT to make an exploratory 2D RPG. You know it's a shitty game when all you end up doing is running around in circles and dying.

Pic is Stage 1, all mapped out. 'Nuff Said.

>>1385926

Was this the game Arino played in one of the more recent episodes?

Also talking of bad ones... Space Hunter for NES

>>1386367

That hame is bad on a level of its own. Played it for one of the gauntlet threads.

>>1385125
>I was hoping this board would be devoid of inane bickering like this.
The gnere is action/adventure (Metroid, Adventure of Link, Dragon Slayer IV) or action/rpg (Faxanadu, Castlevania II, SotN). It can be vertical or horizontal (sidescrolling).

"Metroidvania" is a word for SotN, GBA and DS Castlevanias. It's sometimes used erroneously. It may have entered some people's vocabulary, but it's not a good word to use when designating a genre as it's imprecise and unwieldy and breeds misunderstanding.

Now go call me an autist and link me to some other board as a shitposter you are.

>>1386393

You are the only shitposter here anon. You can make a separate thread for discussing linguistics behind terms such as metroidvania and roguelike.

Its apparent that you understand what type of games people are referring to when they use the term, so it has clearly secured its place in everyday lingo. Portmanteaus don't always make perfect sense when broken down to their components, but instead the new word eventually forms a definition of its own. It's just how language evolves (see: metrosexual, workaholic, gerrymandering, affluenza etc.)

Now please, lets get back to talking about the games themselves, not the terminology around them.

>>1386414
I'm not starting a discussion, just mentioning an error. If somebody started a thread and said "Are there other game's like Yoshi's Island on the MegaDrive?" it would be perfectly normal to point out that YI is not a MegaDrive game, even though you can probably understand that the guy means one of two things. But ambiguity is there - does he want MD games? Or was SNES? Similarly, does OP want a Metroid (adventure)? Or Adventure of Link (stat growth and experience)? These are two seperate genres he grouped under one silly term.

Also, you sound like you've just learnt what portmanteau is from a Wikipedia article and can't wait to tel everyone.

>>1386417
Filtered.

>>1384585

Any opinions on which is the best version of Popful Mail?

>>1384850
>>1384858
>>1386393
>>1386417
;)

>>1386420

IIRC the PC-engine version has the most RPG elements. The SNES and Sega CD ports are both pretty different, and both better games overall.

>>1386420
I've only played the SegaCD version, So I like it the best.

>no mention of glorious gargoyle's quest

Didn't see Black Magic mentioned on the gaf.
A lot of C64 people I know hadn't heard of it either. This shit kicked my ass.

>>1386445

This looks really sweet. Had not heard of it before.

Here is another obscure one: The Scheme. It's for PC-88.

>>1386442
The first two games in the GQ series are hardly "exploratory" games. Sure, there's a world map, but it's mostly a straight shot from start to finish, and the stages you go through rarely have any kind of meaningful branching paths. Demon's Crest has a little more of that, but everything is still divided up by an overworld rather than having one connected, fluid world.

I'm not saying these are bad games. I love the whole series, especially Demon's Crest (dat atmosphere and soundtrack), but I don't think it really follows the "one giant maze" format. (I think it's a damned shame we haven't gotten a game like that, either. In my dreams, Capcom makes a 2D Gargoyle's Quest/Ghosts 'N' Goblins crossover game in which Firebrand and Sir Arthur have to work together to traverse the Ghoul Realm and stop a terrible foe, sort of like a mix of The Lost Vikings and a Metroidvania.)

>>1386451
Neat.
The player character looks a lot like Adol from Ys.

>>1386458
The original Gokumakaimura / Ultimate GnG is almost like that. You have to replay the stages, search for secrets and upgrades to beat them.

It's not ideal, though, and the re-release does away with it in favour of normal straight-forward gameplay in the style of old games. But there nonetheless is a Makaimura/GnG with even more adventure elements than Demon's Crest.

>>1386442

Although I love Gargoyle's Quest, I agree with >>1386458 Same reason why Zelda II is not the type of game I'm looking for.

I think one of the defining traits should be one continuous world map, that is fully traversed in 2D.

>>1386472
You listed Faxanadu, and it's in the exact same genre as Adventure of Link.

Nonetheless, Blaster Master, perhaps?

>>1386473

Just looked it up, you are right. There is a similar world map. I haven't actually played all these games yet, I'm looking to compile a list and then start going through them. My bad again.

>>1386473
Blaster Master has the top-down dungeon levels, but it does certainly have one large 2D map as well.

I guess the problem here is distinguishing between pure side-scrolling exploration and games that feature some type of 2D exploration. The NeoGAF list is good but way too crowded because it features almost any 2D game with slightest hints of action and adventure mixed together.

>>1386471

You mean like the original Castlevania on the MSX? Basically light exploration / inventory management, but still level based.

Of these I have only played Maze of Galious and it really doesn't play like Metroid at all.

>>1386486
The MSX game is not good at all, though.

And it's not the original Castlevania, the Famicom game came out first.

>>1386489
>large continuous world
>side-scrolling exploration
>find new items to access new areas
>defeat bosses

isn't that what pretty much all these games boil down to?

>>1386451
This one looks really cool, but I can't seem to find a rom of it.

>>1386393
>"Metroidvania" is a word for SotN, GBA and DS Castlevanias.

No, it isn't. It's a subgenre of action adventures. Ufouria is a metroidvania.

>>1386587
it's not a castlevania game, where's the vania in ufouria.

>>1386597

B-b-but its not a metroid either, where is the metroid? This is really the most retarded argument since roguelike.

none of these are role playing games, are you high

>>1386607
yep, it's neither metroid nor castlevania, so the guy that called uforia a fucking metroidvania probably recieves disability checks for being so fucking retarded

>>1386587
No, Uforia is an action/adventure.

SotN is a "metroidvania"; the genre is action/rpg.

>>1386597
>>1386607
>>1386615
>>1386618
>>1386620

and this is important how, sperglords?

metroidvania is catchy, and the term will never go away. Literally.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/08/15/living/literally-definition/

This thread is almost /v/ tier, what happened?

>>1386623
Castleroid was also catchy. Yet younger people like you probably don't even remember it, only it's inbred sibling "metroidvania".

And it certainly isn't a "term", just a moniker for a subseries of Castlevania.

>>1386627
Ignorant people taking pride and stance in their ignorance is what happened. As always.

>>1386630

>http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Metroidvania

and before you say something about using a wiki as a source, you know that popular opinion always wins when it comes to language? That's just the way it goes, people erroneously use a word until it is adapted into the mainstream.

>>1386636
I can make this perfect mirror of public opinion reflect a completely different public opinion in two clicks, as can anyone, as has somebody. Forget about the wiki.

>>1386630

Metroidvania prevailed over Castleroid because Castlevania is more recognizable from its latter part "vania" than Metroid from "roid".

>>1386643
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Metroidvania

>>1386618

It's just a goddamn nickname. Someone throws it out, someone likes it, it sticks, it works, it drives the core idea to the public. Period. What you are making dispaly of, on the other hand, is a typical case of autists pointless fastidiousness over trivial bullshit no normal person should even care about.

>>1386643

The term has been recorded, defined and used academically. See for example Cook, Colton & Pease: Aesthetic Considerations for Automated Platformer Design or Spek: Experiments in serious game design.

>>1386650
Metroidvania prevailed over Castleroid because Castleroid sounds like a castle sized hemorrhoid.
True story.

>>1386657

Journal published by Stanford University. This particular article has been cited 47 times.

I think that should clear up any confusion about the term.

>>1386671

that means jack shit. you can get just about anything published in a shitty university. that doesn't make them an authority on language.

show me the word in a dictionary.

>>1386663
a billion years in mspaint

>>1386671
>look ma! the university gave a game developers degree!

>getting this asshurt over a genre name

It's like watching a lite version of /v/ discussing what makes a game survival horror.

>>1386671
>I think that should clear up any confusion about the term.
I think that it would not.

>>1386673
>show me the word in a dictionary.

Give it time. Why are you this hurt over a word, m8? It'll be alright...

>>1386701

What are your credentials?

>>1386707
The "vegetable" is a word used in some scientific studies, it's a dictionary word and it's colloquial use is widespread.

If you say "cucumber is a fruit", many people would agrue that it's a vegetable and not a fruit. This commonly understood and quite documented pseudofact is nonetheless incorrect. A cucumber is fruit, while "vegetable" is an almost meaningless non-term (it roughly means "edible plant", but not always and not necessarily).

Similarly, Adventure of Link is an action/rpg, while "metroidvania" is a moniker and not a term, despite how widely used the word is in some circles and even despite some scientific publications mentioning it as such. It is a misnomer, it is imprecise, it breeds misunderstanding and is quite useless in actually describing game genres. In a discussion, the problematic word is best left out.

>>1386717

What the fuck does it matter what his credentials are? Look here, no one gives a flying fuck if you managed to google some random article that has the wrong definition of Metroidvania.

Metroidvania means latter Castlevania games with Metroid-like exploration. Period.

>>1386725

So you are the guy, who when people are talking about cucumberx as vegetablex, butts in and starts sperging out about how it is a fruit and using an almost meaningless non-term such as vegetable breeds misunderstaning?

People must love talking with you buddy.

A boy and his blob is pretty fun. Tough, also.

>>1386727
>So you are the guy, who when people are talking about cucumberx as vegetablex, butts in and starts sperging out
No. But if I was a poster on the "edible plantlife enthusiasts" image board, I certainly would have.

>>1386725

I'm screencapping this post for the sheer hilarity of it.

I mean really, do you correct people on those unfortunate vegetable / fruit mix-ups?

>>1386671
>the player cannot die
Sounds like a really exciting game. What is that article even about?

>>1386731
>I mean really, do you correct people on those unfortunate vegetable / fruit mix-ups?
see
>>1386730

As for spreading the post, I appreciate that.

>>1386732

Procedural level generation.

Spluenker. I this game used to inspire a lot of wonder with me and I used to draw a lot of cave levels as a kid based on this game.

>>1386671

The guy actually has to explain what he means when talking about the "metroidvania genre". He could have just said "...are 2D platform games in which players are tasked..." etc. Even the author is aware that term can be confusing.

>>1386725
>>1386730

it hurts my mind that there really are people like this.

>>1386743
I never got far in this game, but it's not an rpg and I'm not sure you ever have to backtrack or revisit areas.

>>1386725
>Similarly, Adventure of Link is an action/rpg, while "metroidvania" is a moniker and not a term, despite how widely used the word is in some circles and even despite some scientific publications mentioning it as such. It is a misnomer, it is imprecise, it breeds misunderstanding and is quite useless in actually describing game genres. In a discussion, the problematic word is best left out.

Action-RPG is not much better. In what way is there role-playing involved? I can not affect the decisions of the character whose role I'm supposed to be playing. Simple stats don't make an RPG.

Furthermore, you can jump in Link's Adventure and there are sections where careful jumping is necessary. So at what point should it be mentioned that it is a platformer?

If you can call both LoZ and Link's Adventure Action-RPG, I think that is one shitty term as those games are pretty damn far from each other.

>>1386750
Well, it hurts my mind that there are reaction-image-spamming shitposters. So?

Meanwhile, you can take solace in the fact that the two posts are both mine, so the most hated people right now are all me, even though I'm not the only one arguing against the word "metroidvania" ITT.

>>1386762
>In what way is there role-playing involved?
A shitty misnomer I'm forced to use. Hopefully, I will not be forced to pollute my language even further with shitfuck nonwords like the goddamn fucking "metroidvania" in the future.

Yes, I mad.

>>1386764

Dude, about this whole "purity of language" thing. I used to be really into that when I was in high school. Correcting what I saw as mistakes by others made me felt special and intelligent. You know, I was the classic fedora-tipping grammar nazi.

But at some point people made me realize I was a huge asshole, and I stopped. And I'm glad I did. I hope eventually someone helps you as well.

>>1386764

But has god really damned the term "Metroidvania," anon? And what exactly is it having sexual relations with?

>>1386772
>But at some point people made me realize I was a huge asshole, and I stopped
Were you still in highschool at that point? My college professors regularly threw tantrums when people spoke like dopes.

>>1386772
You've stopped being an asshole and your passive-aggressive post is proof of that.

...wait, no, it isn't, you're still a goddamn fucking asshole.

>>1386782
>But has god really damned the term "Metroidvania," anon?
It clearly has. Look at this thread. The word is CURSED.

>>1386786
My highschool teachers were all grammar nazis. The guy is either making shit up or went to some ghetto school.

>>1386786

High school.

Also, how do you "throw a tantrum"? What as silly figure of speech.

>>1386798
*tips wig*

>>1386792

I'd rather say the person having a shitfit over the term Metroidvania is cursed.

>>1386802
>It's only OK when I do it!

Be honest now, did you start all this shit just for your own amusement, and you don't really care that much about the use of the word metroidvania?

>>1386808
No, I actually really dislike the word. I'm not the only person ITT saying it should not be used, though. "Metroidvania" word is quickly gaining antipathy in video game circles because of it's mis- and overuse.

>>1386597
>"metroidvania" only applies to castlevania games.

[citation needed]

when normal people use the term "metroidvania", they refer to action/adventure platformers in the style of metroid and certain castlevanias. "action/adventure" is vague. when you say metroidvania, pretty much everyone know what you mean. deal with it, sperglord.

>>1386852
>they refer to action/adventure platformers in the style of metroid and certain castlevanias
Actually that's really vague too, considering how many different kinds of metroid and castlevania games there are.

>>1386861
>Actually that's really vague too

no, it isn't. like i said, pretty much everyone know what it means. if you're confused, look it up.

http://gaming.wikia.com/wiki/Metroidvania
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Metroidvania
http://www.giantbomb.com/metroidvania/3015-2440/
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Metroidvania

>>1386867
The first two sources already don't have the same definition. Tvtropes doesn't think it has to be non-linear, have platforming elements, or be in 2D, while the first link makes it clear that it's only a certain kind of 2D game.

>>1386872

yes, obviously it's not a strictly defined term, but it's still more specific than "action/adventure". those pages should give you a good indication of what people are talking about when they're talking about metroidvanias, and it sure as hell isn't
>latter Castlevania games with Metroid-like exploration. Period.

>>1386895
>yes, obviously it's not a strictly defined term
You just said it wasn't vague a few posts ago.

Why not use it in a way that always makes sense like, for example, when you talk about certain castlevania games? I mean, is it really impossible to describe a platformer or action adventure without using vague language? Wouldn't it be better to avoid the term if it isn't strictly defined?

>>1386938
>Why not use it in a way that always makes sense like, for example, when you talk about certain castlevania games? I mean, is it really impossible to describe a platformer or action adventure without using vague language? Wouldn't it be better to avoid the term if it isn't strictly defined?

Not that anon but its an issue of convenience. Sure, we could always define everything with very clear language as in academic writing, but does the average poster have the patience or time for that?

>Ufouria is a side-scrolling platformer with side-scrolling combat and exploration. The world map is made out of areas, all interconnected together and traversed on a 2D plane. The player learns new abilities by finding items, which then allow him to access different sections of the world map. The game is not strictly linear, and certain sections can be done in whatever order the player wishes.

Or

>Ufouria is metroidvania

The latter tells in three words most of the information in the first version. Sure, there might be some vagueness, but majority of people will instantly get the rough idea of what kind of game we are talking about here.

>>1386938

you said it's really vague. i disagree. yes, as the tvtropes page says, the definition varies somewhat depending on whom you ask, but it then goes on to say that many think a metroidvania should be non-linear, have platforming elements, and be in 2D, etc. if you choose to express yourself in more specific terms, that's fine. just don't fucking spaz out if someone calls Ufouria a fucking metroidvania.

>>1386731
>>1386750
Jesus fuck, he did not say 'I often have to correct people who think cucumbers are vegetables!', he was just giving an example.

Besides that, thinking cucumbers are vegetables is just fucking stupid. Like seriously, if you're over 13 and you think that, you're retarded.

>>1387135

Definition of Vegetable

1 a : of, relating to, constituting, or growing like plants
b : consisting of plants : vegetational

2: made from, obtained from, or containing plants or plant products <vegetable soup> <vegetable fat>

3: resembling or suggesting a plant (as in inertness or passivity)

What now, fucker?

>>1384585
>>Wonder Boy series
Starting with the second one. I'm not sure if you haven't played the first one or if you also consider Adventure Island an RPG.

>>1387185
A fruit is not a vegetable. It is the fruit of a vegetable. You could refer to a cucumber plant as 'vegetation' but a CUCUMBER is a FRUIT.

a carrot, on the other hand, is a vegetable, because it does not produce seeds and is the root of the plant

>>1387240
>autism.txt

>>1387286
No faggot, it's called common knowledge.

>>1387297
You're technically correct, but cucumbers and tomatoes are commonly referred to as vegetables.

>>1387317
But they're just not, and people who say they're vegetables are wrong.

I mean, it doesn't bother me that much, it's just that people were trying to actually argue otherwise.

>>1386958

or you could just say Ufouria is an action adventure game. and you'd be correct because that what it is. not a metroidvania

>>1387360

But you could also say Zelda is an action adventure game. So what the hell does that moniker tell about the content of the game? No matter how badly you misunderstand it, metroidvania tells you a hell of a lot more about what kind of game Ufouria is than just saying its an action adventure.

Action adventure. A game that has action and adventuring. That is pretty much half the games ever made.

>>1387407

>metroidvania tells you a hell of a lot more about what kind of game Ufouria is than just saying its an action adventure.


that's fine and dandy except Ufouria is NOT a metroidvania.


>Action adventure. A game that has action and adventuring. That is pretty much half the games ever made.

now your just being purposely ignorant. Role Playing Game. A game where you play the role of another character. That is pretty much every game made. you see how stupid that sounds?

Give me a definition of action adventure then.

Same rules apply as before, when people were posting "accepted" definitions for metroidvania. No wikis or user created content, textbook definition.

Also, remember you wanted to avoid "metroidvania" to avoid using imprecise terminology (see >>1386725). Wouldn't using a catch-all term like "action adventure" be even worse? Hell, its so broad its almost meaningless. A non-term if I may.

>>1386676
NEET detected

I just wanted a list of games, where are the games /vr/?

>>1387440
>>>/v/

>>1387494
This is pretty much a /v/ containment thread already. Wish it would just be deleted.

>>1387494
butthurt detected

So...minus the ridiculous "you're dumb. no you're dumb" posts, this is a really good thread.

Faxanadu was one of my favorite games when I was little, though I could never figure it out because I was a dumb baby. I am going to give some of these a try. Thanks, non-shitposters.

>>1387428
>that's fine and dandy except Ufouria is NOT a metroidvania.

people have already explained why they think it is. if you disagree, explain why.

>now your just being purposely ignorant.

no, he's not. he already gave examples of games (ufouria and zelda) that are both action adventures, but play very differently. "action adventure" is very broad, and the term metroidvania simply carries more information.

>>1386480
Faxanadu does not have a world map. It's all interconnected sidescrolling areas. Ones necessitating backtracking and abilities. It's totally what you're looking for.

Wizards and Warriors 3

any of these worthwhile to go through today?

I'm not allergic to 8-bit graphics at all, just want the gameplay to have stood the test of time.

>>1388260
>the term metroidvania simply carries more information
It's not a term.

Metroid is action/adventure.
SotN and it's clones is action/rpg.
Zelda 1 is action/adventure.
Zelda 2 is action/rpg.

If you want to differentiate between vertical and horizontal (or side-scrolling), add this.

So, "metroidvania" can mean a shitload of barely related stuff from seperate video game genres, while a "side-scrolling action/adventure" means a game like Metroid.

>>1386630
>Castleroid

>>1388839
It was certainly better than "metroid-vania".

It's "Metrovania" you spazzes.

>>1388849
No, Judgement is "metrovania".

>>1388849

A sweet Metroid from Metrosexual Metrovania?

>>1384585
I'm yet to beat this. I've beaten the four bosses, but I've burned out before I found out what exactly to do with the paintings and crowns.

>>1386607
>roguelike

There is no controversy over the definition. Turn-based tile-based RPG's with randomly generated elements and permadeath. If you ask any serious roguelike fan what a roguelike is, they'll all say pretty much the same thing.

Guys, wow, I just realized:

>Vampires suck lifeforce and bodily fluids
>Metroids suck lifeforce and bodily fluids
>Vampires are an unnatural abomination who refuse to die
>Metroids are an unnatural abomination who refuse to die

What if Metroid is really just Castlevania in space?

I love when I filter an autistic tripfag's code and half the thread collapses into minimized stubs due to glorious recursive filtering. Cancer removed!

>>1388909
What if Metroid and Castlevania belong to two entirely different, unrelated genres? Castlevania is an action/platformer, while Metroid is an action/adventure.

>>1388947
I've dropped the tripcode days ago. You're still arguing with me, you silly fuck.

>>1384585
Have not read thread but Getsu Fūma Den is pretty good

Kouryu Densetsu Villgust Gaiden it has been translated to english. its a top down typical NES RPG type of game except when you get into a battle it turns into a platformer type of gameplay and you have to defeat the enemies its very fun and interesting

>>1386473
but faxanadu has no top down areas, what makes it like adventure of link

>>1388971
its more like a mario 3 type game

Not retro, but Hydra Castle Labyrinth is amazing, and free.

>this whole fucking thread

OP had the best intentions, shame a word nazi had to come in and fuck it all up because he doesn't like people using a word the exact way he uses it.

protip: he's wrong. metroidvania is a broad term and doesn't just apply to castlevania games.

>all this sperging over metroidvania

>>1389006
The so-called "RPG elements" - the EXP/level system and similar progression systems where you beat more enemies and start hitting harder etc. It doesn't happen in any other Zelda, where you have to find an upgrade to increase attack power.

Meanwhile, top-down exploration in Zelda 2 is just a gimmick. All actual action gameplay uses the horizontal perspective. And the perspective does not define the genre, although it augments it, - the gameplay mechanics do.

>>1389064
then what seperates it from these free roaming RPGs of this thread?

>>1384848
>http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=371433
>Cauldron
Woah, how could I forget this game? Shame on me.

>>1384585
OP's is Legacy of the Wizard

Awesome, fun, and huge game. You choose from a family of adventurers and delve deep and jump alot and walking through stuff, collecting crowns then getting this sword and having your eldest son kill the final boss dragon with it.

It had some solid music and colours too. I mean, just look at that shit.

>>1384585
Not really "RPG", but then again a lot of the titles ITT aren't... Talisman on the c64 gave me nightmares with some of the screens.

>>1390260
Bah.