/vr/ - Retro Games

>>1344114
I know exactly what you mean and totally agree. LttP doesn't really have a whole lot of flavor or character and I much prefer the silliness and charm of LA.

Same here OP. I replayed both games in the last year, LA for fun and LttP in preparation for the new 3DS sequel. I was surprised at how much I enjoyed LA even after 20 years, and how much I was bored by LttP. Maybe it's just the Seinfeld effect, but I just wasn't that enthralled with LttP. As it turns out, I'm even enjoying Link Between Worlds much more than LttP. This might also be because I'm playing a borrowed copy (and thus have immediate access to Hero Mode), but so far I'm more convinced so far that it's just a better game, or at least more refreshing than LttP.

You play LttP if you want a solo adventure
You play LA if you want your hand held.

>>1344181

I had previously called A Link to the Past hands-down my favorite Zelda game and one of my favorite games of all time. It wasn't until I replayed it fairly recently that I realized how it was much more bland and unremarkable than I remembered. Link's Awakening, on the other hand, is just as charming and engrossing as it always was. I think it's the most emotionally attached I've ever been to a Zelda game.

there is no such thing as being objective when judging games. the best positions are completely subjective

>>1344316
It's true. People complain that LttP was too isolated, but they love how attached they get to the NPCs in LA.

Everyone's with you every step of the way in LA, but in LttP it's all you against the world.

>>1344373
Until you steal from the shopkeeper, THIEF.

>>1344373

I agree, I was mostly responding to

>You play LA if you want your hand held.

>f you want your hand held.

>handheld

>>1344181
But those last few dungeons were grueling.

Link to the Past certainly kept the isolationist feel of the original LoZ although it changed up the gameplay quite a bit. With LA, you had many more NPCs to interact with beyond shopkeepers, and a lot of them had more personality than the inhabitants of LttP's world.

LttP might've had more in it from a gameplay perspective, but LA certainly made the player feel more attached to the world.

I tried to like LTTP but didn't really. I only started LA but like it more so far.

>>1344373
The real problem was that LttP had a whole bunch of non-enemy characters that were totally useless. LA had many characters in it, some whom helped you, some whom you helped, and others who merely existed to lend some character to the world. LttP wasn't devoid of characters so much as it was devoid of meaningful characters. Admittedly, Zelda 1 had the same thing going on, but it was on a much smaller world map and thus helped alleviate that issue.

>>1344435
I don't know if he simply meant to make the joke or if he meant it for its true meaning, but if it was the latter, then I would say that LttP was the first 2D Zelda to explicitly tell you what you were supposed to do. Not even through a character's voice, just the game breaking the 4th wall to tell you what to do.

>>1344493
Personally, I think LA pulled off even gameplay better than LttP, mostly in that it didn't feel like it had as many superfluous items, and just about everything you got had a purpose in the overworld and in dungeons. LttP I recall having tons of pointless stuff. By comparison, the only useless stuff I really remember from LttP was magic powder, which had one point and then never really came up again.

>>1344114
I feel somewhat the same; but love both games for different reasons. LTTP is more cold; especially in the darkworld. But I think what gives it that feeling is the fact that there's less animation; characters are more likely to have rigid motions and the sound design of the game. It sounds abstract and "blour" because of the SPC chip. Things are more grand and you're detached.

Whereas LA is more a personal game, the fact that you played in short bursts of battery life on a small handheld and all your attention focused on it adds to that. It's more animated. Characters have quirky idle animations, more things just move or twitch. Link's sprite it's a more child like design. Sound design is limited, but bright sounding, more attention grabbing. Themes are just as catchy if not more. Plus the storyline is high fantasy; I find that more enjoyable.

That all said, I'm playing the shit out of ALBW.

>>1344545
>>1344545
>That all said, I'm playing the shit out of ALBW.

I feel like that game is combining both sides in a sense, basically a LttP with more meaningful and quirky characters. Also helps that they sped you up compared to LttP, I hated how long it took to get anywhere in that game.

Link's Awakening is the only Zelda I played and finished.
By hand holding you mean Ulrira's tips? Is that hand holding by Zelda's standard?

I don't think it was a very easy game. I got stuck three times. I didn't find the fisherman under the bridge because I thought I had to give the item to the minigame fisherman near the town, the eagle dungeon, and the turtle rock dungeon, because I didn't know I could pick up and throw bombs.

does it matter??
all zelda games are the same, the most uninventive video game series ever, even a series as formulaic as pokemon has innovated more

>>1344773
0/10 christ man at least have the self respect to put some HEART into your shitty trolling

back to /v/ or /b/ with you

I find ALttP very bland and sloppily designed compared to LA. I played both of them fairly close to each other (can't remember which was first, but I think it was ALttP on GBA), and I've never been crazy about ALttP. It's probably my least favorite 2D Zelda next to Zelda II, but LA is tied with OoT as my favorite. It added so much I probably couldn't even list it all off the top of my head. It's just a much deeper game than ALttP in every single aspect.

The music is one of my favorite things about it too. It probably has my favorite Zelda soundtrack, and I definitely give it huge credit for being the first Zelda game to have a different theme for each dungeon. While most of the tracks ALttP has are impeccable, LA's are definitely on par if not better, and there are more of them to boot. The graphics also have a certain charm to them that, while they are on weaker hardware, doesn't make them feel like a step down from ALttP at all.

I found the dungeon design to be much more solid and the inventory a lot more interesting. Being able to combine some items added a new layer to combat, and it was the first game to incorporate manual shielding.

tl;dr, I find ALttP bland and overrated and have always enjoyed LA much, much more. You're not alone OP.

>>1344778
do you know what an opinion is?? not everything is a troll
>back to /v/ or /b/
wow you got me =^_^=

>>1344787
We're having a nice discussion about ZELDA in a ZELDA thread and you just come in here and shit all over it, without even the common courtesy of substantiating your "opinion" at all. No facts, citations, or even scrawlings of whatever garbage is going on in your brain. You're obviously not in here to discuss LttP or LA, and you're just posting inflammatory bait.

I guess I was wrong about /b/ and /v/, forgive me. Reddit is THAT way. -->


On topic, did anyone ever use magic powder on buzzblobs in LA? They go all wonky and say strange things.

>>1345301
Don't answer please. What's your opinion about oracles and ages?

>>1345301
>using b/, /v/ and reddit as insults

I prefer Link to the Past because the controls aren't so incredibly annoying. Seriously, pausing to rearrange your A and B buttons every 10 seconds is a real problem with Link's Awakening.

>>1345328
>the opinion of a known shitty namefag troll

Nobody cares.

ALttP is the first and biggest game where it felt like Nintendo didn't know what they were doing and released a game disjointed from its series. LA/OoT are where the series begins. They introduce the shady tropes of the Happy Salesman insert, Malon and Talon, the owl, and Link's companions. It feels like Zelda 1/AoL can flow into LA/OoT with their traded precedents and callbacks.
But before that struts ALttP with its broken font, weird two-thirds angle, pink-haired Link, an unprecedented duality-shift mechanic; you even have to shoot your name in with a target reticle.
The gameplay... the one Zelda where the shield isn't manual by position-based.
There's a fenced shop that's tricky to get to because you have to jump over hurdles from the back to reach the front in Thieve's Town. In the GBA port it's the one place they added Like-Likes to, which were established in the original and mysteriously MIA in ALttP till they were encoded for the Four Sword bonus content. Now readding them makes sense because the shop sells shields and so runs a scam business. So why would the original team have left this unfinished? Then you realize it's because they had taken the liberty of creating their own floral variation of the Like-Like, the Pikit. A monster that shoots its tongue at you across walls and anything in its way to jack your shield so they couldn't add this broken monster.
The game introduces the shovel in the first instance of tile-swapping in a game just to take it away when you get the flute.
It's the first fleshed out Zelda story, a prequel suitably well, yet Ganon, the series' recurring BIG BAD's first backstory is only eluded to via randomly dissemenated sublore. As is Link's and his vague connections to the knights Hylia on that note (blood-related to an unseen hero he must prove himself worthy of). It almost seems as if the brown-haired flute boy who died in search of the Triforce is the real Link and you're playing as an imposter.

With regards to LttP...

The gameplay is by no means bad, the dungeons are well designed and challenging, there's often multiple solutions to puzzles and obstacles, and parts of dungeons can be flat-out skipped (The skull woods dungeon is notorious for this - you can pretty much ignore three quarters of it). That's excellent, it rewards player curiosity and creativity and doesn't railroad you into anything.

But from a story/ character perspective... Well, LttP's story is dead-set from the beginning: A big bad evil threatens the world. Defeat it. And when you defeat it, well. Well done, hero. Feeling good, right?

Just like in a thousand other games. And because it's so simplistic, there's not much need to add memorable NPCs - it's perfectly sufficient to just throw a couple in as item-providers. Done. You never feel particularly attached to them because you don't NEED to feel attached to them - they're not the point of the game. They're background noise.

And the soundtrack plays into this, of course. It's heroic on the overworld, threatening in the dungeons. You're in danger, but you're also the hero. You're here to fix shit.

Same as in a thousand other games. That doesn't mean it's bad, but it does mean it's generic and consequently, forgetttable.

>>1346120
continued
Now compare to Link's Awakening.

Lets skip the gameplay portion because it's basically identical - LA's more streamlined, and the dungeons are easier, but the principle of nonlinear dungeons, of being able to skip sections of them, and of being able to solve probelms in multiple ways remains the same. Top notch gameplay, somewhat less varied than in LttP, but also more refined.

On to the plot and the NPCs.

It throws NPCs at you that are fun. Quirky. Likable. You grow attached to them - without the game telling you to, I might add. Marin is interested in YOU, whether you return these feelings is your decision. If you don't feel like acknowledging a virtual romance, you don't need to -, and this is a necessity for the game to work, for an actual plot...

You're stranded on an island. You want to get off it again. That's it. You're not on a quest to save the world within five minutes of the game starting, you're solely in it for your own cause, you've no responsibilities to the villagers who took you in, barring those you choose to accept. Indeed, the game brings this home in a pretty blatant fashion by allowing you to steal from the villagers - if you decide that your needs supercede theirs, well, the game isn't forcing you to act benevolently. You can fuck them over if you want to. If the NPCs WEREN'T likable, what plot would be there?

Nothing.

So you go and explore the island, you experience this sense of wonder, with every new area you get access to simultaneously allowing you a glimpse into the next area you cannot yet access but want to SO MUCH, which drives you forward. More limited in its exploration that LttP, which allowed you access to most of the world pretty much instantaneously, but at the same time incredibly motivating. Sure, you want to get off this island, but you also want to learn all about it.

>>1346124
continued
The overworld music is upbeat, fun - not as epic as in LttP, more expressing your sense of wonder than your heroic deeds. The dungeons, of course, still maintain their aura of threat and terror. But outside of them, you meet all these people, funny, quirky... They're your friends. You care for them.

It's like that until the fifth dungeon boss. And here, everything changes.

Was he lying? He must've been lying. An attempt to distract you from your quest of getting off the island (However much you like its inhabitants) - an island that at this point, you've almost completely explored. Only a few map tiles left to discover, over there in the mountains, and in the rapids, and those ruins, of course.

The ruins. The fifth boss... Wasn't lying. The dungeon music changes - it's no longer THREATENING (How could they be? You've 8- 10 hearts at this point, plus recovery potion, you're essentially unkillable, a one-man engine of destruction plunging through the enemies) but melancholic, heralding the end of times. And the end of times...

That's you. You're the harbinger of destruction. The bosses SCREAM at you to stop with your quest, that you'll be their undoing... And there's all those people in the villages, people who genuinely cared for you, who helped you. People you probably cared for and helped, too.

You make a choice here. You're fully aware of its consequences.

Your needs supercede theirs.

You'll end their world.

And you do.

LttP's plot is about a great evil that you're here to destroy. It's the great evil that matters, not you. You're just a generic hero, and a generic hero only needs generic NPCs. Item dispensers.

LA on the other hand, isn't about a great evil. You don't even learn there is one until the final boss.

>>1346125
final continue
It's about you. And it needs these great NPCs, these people you genuinely care for to make the game count. Because it's YOUR decision to end their world, and for this decision to matter, for this decision to be difficult and a figurative punch in the gut for the player, he has to care about what he is destroying. He mustn't think 'Oh, hey, beat the game. Got off the island. Great!'. He must think 'I... I love you guys. I... I don't want to destroy you but... But this is a dream and... And I want to be free'. Only through this does the plot become meaningful.

And only through this does the game break the mold of 'Well done, generic hero!' games and becomes memorable.

Because you care.

There've been thousands of games like LttP. Dozens that've been just as good.

There haven't been a lot of games like LA.

Another thing about LA is how much attention to detail went into it. Even the bosses have character. At first, you're a nothing. You hardly matter (And indeed, you're weak). They'll just munch you for breakfast. They mock you, they toy with you, they hardly care for you beyond you being a readily available food source.

But as you progress, as you become stronger and acquire the instruments, this changes. They start taking you seriously, and finally, they panic. They're fearing for their, for EVERYONE'S existence.

Even exploration has been designed to fit into the overall tone and the change thereof - the vast majority of the island can be explored before you ever hear about the island being a dream. It's the upbeat, fun, sense-of-wonder part of the game. Once you DO learn of the secret, however, very little exploration is left, and you're basically supposed to finish the last three dungeons with not much else to do. Occasionally people complain about this, since exploration is, well... Really fun, and then it's suddenly missing for the last quarter of the game - but it actually fits the mood change perfectly. Now you DO know everything, the sense of wonder is gone. Time to think about your choices, 'Hero'. NPC interaction drops significantly at this point, too, for the same reason. You're no longer on an island paradise full of fun people. You've become death. Go and feel like it. Death has no friends.

>>1346157
Damn man, that's deep.

>>1346120
ALttP isn't forgettable because it's generic, it's forgettable because it does jack to make you care about the world or the characters in it.
There's really nothing to the game except for its gameplay. That's all it has, and it doesn't even attempt to do anything else beyond the bare minimum of kicking main character's lazy ass out of bed and into adventure.
You can say the game didn't NEED a compelling story or world or characters, but that's a bit disingenuous. ALttP would be a million billion times better if the story or world or characters were interesting, so I see no reason to excuse the game's complete lack of effort on that front.

I mean, look at pic related. Your uncle is fucking dieing right in front of you, and this is the dialogue you're given? "I DIDN'T WANT YOU INVOLVED, HERE'S SOME GEAR, HOLD B TO USE THE SWORD".
This is barely a step above "IT'S DANGEROUS TO GO ALONE", and hey, at least that old man in that cave had the decency not to mention controller inputs.

I've played both aLttP and LA some years ago for the first time, so I have no nostalgia bias.

LA felt much more cozy and refined.

It's strange. I like both LttP and LA, and I acknowledge every problem with LttP in this thread, and everything that LA does right, but I still absolutely prefer LttP over LA, warts and all, and I always will. Call it nostalgia, I guess. I don't care.

>>1348541
It's because LttP is the superior game, since it's not bogged down by all that needless text and constant item switching.

>>1348547
Yep. Also you get more items, new ones LA only gave you a subset of. And near the end the game opens up a bit and you can start doing dungeons out of order. And having a dedicated action key for dashing and picking stuff up is a godsend. I grew up playing Link's Awakening, but it's not as much fun to replay.

>>1348560
Mind, my wording makes it sound like I'm putting LA down, but I mean it in the purest sense of the word: LttP is pure GAME, and it's strengths AND weaknesses are entirely based on how much you like it being focused almost entirely on gameplay instead of world building and character interaction.

>>1348565
Thank you for putting into words that which I assumed was only nostalgia.

Not every game needs that stuff, honestly. This is a false belief of most individuals who have their "nostalgia" period in the 32/64-bit era.

Zelda works absolutely fine as a "gameplay" game.

This is me. I like LTTP don't get me wrong, but it was filled with loneliness and dispair. Something about the music too, always serious, eerie or downright depressing, and EVERYTHING wanted to kill you with the exception of the princess, the bottle salesmen, the smithy and those 2 guys cutting down that tree.

LA is just a lot more fun, there are more memorable characters and some puzzle solving, and the music was much more upbeat, not to mention the world was like 3 times larger.

>>1348573
>loneliness
>dispair (sic)
>serious
>eerie
>depressing

You sat that like these are bad things, anon.
I bet you really hate Majora's Mask, too. Right?

>>1348579
I love Majoras Mask. But not everything was doom and dispair. You were never alone because you were surrounded by a town full of people and at the least you always had Tatl. And the mini game and cock town music was upbeat, the latter being for the first two days at least.

Also I understand I spell things incorrectly sometimes, this is because I type fast and don't spellcheck. But everytime I use the word lightning I get called on it despite actually spelling it correctly. Whats the deal with that?

>>1348612
>lightning
what the hell do they correct it to? "lightening?"
kids these days

Yes, Link's Awakening is easily the superior game. Only plebs disagree.

>>1348625
"link's awakening is the easier, friendler game so of course it's better!" is about as pleb as an opinion can get, tbh

>>1348639
both games are easy
stay pleb

>>1348651
i never said either game was hard.

>>1348639
It's fucking Legend of Zelda. They're always damn easy except for a handful of areas.

>>1348661
where are you faggots getting that i said either game was easy or hard? the general opinion is that LA is the friendler, "nicer" game. difficulty goes with that. however, it's not a case of either game being particularly hard, just that one is slightly easier. that's it. nothing to really go on, there. you're grasping at straws, you fucking idiots.

>>1348665
>Global rule 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLXOQA6fJC8

>>1348673
More like Global Rule 2.

Probably because link's awakening had some very cozy music

Link's Awakening was essentially just a parody of Nintendo. Everything in the game is a reference to something else Nintendo makes. The main plot of the game revolves around Not Zelda and Not Mario asking you to acquire Tetris instruments to unlock the secrets of a giant Yoshi egg. So yeah, I guess it's more "fun" in that sense.

>>1348715
>Video Games: Serious Busniess

LA has more personality, but I'm not here for that shit. I play Zelda for the gameplay, and LttP is better art that imo. Both are amazing games though.

LttP is awesome for it's puzzles.

Link's Awakening is brimming with character. The soundtrack adds a sense of comforting whimsey in the softer town moments, perfectly capturing the feeling of wonder Link must be experiencing in this foreign island. The carefree characters also add to that warmth--so many varied interests but rarely any vengeful desires. The towns capture the wonder of childhood, the sense of life being exciting yet innocent and playful. LA feels like playing the videogame equal of a Moomin book or a Miyazaki film.

>>1348686
>>1348673
>Global rule I'm a huge pussy

>>1348820
This, all the people singing praises of LA when honestly the world and character can go fuck off for all I care, I don't understand how you could play a game for "character" and a "cozy atmosphere". Sounds to me like escapism from a shitty life situation or loneliness, some autistic shit like that. I personally think that you can't judge a game on things that aren't gameplay related. And judging by the fact that LA's actual gameplay really regresses zelda to the 8bit gen again, and the fact that LTTP expands upon all gameplay aspects in spades (more action buttons, not as much tedious item switching, bigger world, more/better puzzles, bossfights, and dungeon). LTTP is the clear winner from anyone who enjoys the gaming aspects of things instead of wanting a kawaii hugbox to play around in with a not even real sea gull waifu.

>>1348854
>"Sounds to me like escapism from a shitty life situation or loneliness, some autistic shit like that."
>Emotional impact through storytelling
>autistic
People who enjoy reading books are autistic. Good to know.

>>1348854
>Sounds to me like escapism from a shitty life situation or loneliness, some autistic shit like that.

Your post sounds like armchair psychology to me.

>>1348860
I don't read games, the only emotional impact I want from a zelda game is the thrill of completing puzzles and accomplishing goals and going on a grand quest.
Reading a book for "the feels" is fine if that's your thing, but comparing a book to a zelda game isn't logical, at all. apples and oranges, bub
>>1348861
And if it is? Do you have an interesting rebuttal or anything to add? Awesome post.

>>1348854
I always liked LA's world and dungeons far more than ALttP. It may have been 8 bit yet it felt far more dense and intricately designed. LA's dungeons, especially the later ones, were some of the best that ever came out of Zelda. I don't know why you're getting so personal over something so trivial though. They're both part of the same series and are both great games.

>>1348861
He literally says "Sounds to me" in the beginning of the quote you just made there, tex. What an astute observation you have made.

>>1348867
>Do you have an interesting rebuttal or anything to add?

That IS my rebuttal. People being armchair psychologists should not be paid attention to as they're talking out of their ass.

If you want something more substantial than that, then post something less retarded.

Alright guys, you convinced me to start Link's Awakening.

I've just completed the second dungeon, and I'm VERY pleasantly surprised with how good it is so far. The dungeon design is meticulous (at the expense of optional areas might I add) and the gameplay is tight. The soundtrack, though it could be better, is really impressive for a GB game. In fact, the whole damn game is impressive for GB game.

Only really have one gripe with it so far. If you don't have the power bracelet equipped and you touch an object that you can lift it gives you a little speech saying you can't EVERY TIME. Minor flaw at best though.

On a side note, my experience with 2D Zeldas is limited. I completed A Link to the Past at some point (though it was long enough ago that I can't remember too much) and I've played a decent amount of the Oracle games. I'll replay Lttp after LA to compare them.

Another question: are these two Zeldas generally considered the best two?

Just my two cents.

>>1348867
>but comparing a book to a zelda game isn't logical, at all. apples and oranges, bub
Most Zelda games yes, but LA and a few others make total sense. The limited graphics force the player to use imagination to fill in the gaps (facial expressions, tone of voice in dialogue). Ultimately it's up to the player to realize the world with their mind, as one who reads a book does. Perhaps a comic book would be a better example, maybe a children's picture book (though a damn good one).

>>1348868
>I don't know why you're getting so personal over something so trivial though.
I'm not? Just calling them as I see them

>They're both part of the same series and are both great games.
If you would have bothered to read the thread people have been saying that LA is better than LTTP for the majority of the thread on the basis that LA is more "cozy" and "has a better atmosphere and npcs", when I personally feel that these things really don't matter and don't have the slightest effect on me. I judge my games on game-related things.

>>1348874
>That IS my rebuttal. People being armchair psychologists should not be paid attention to as they're talking out of their ass.
Well your rebuttal sucks, you just picked out one small sentence from my post and tried to paint me as some armchair psychologist and therefore my whole post is invalid. I could just as easily say that you're an armchair game critic and that you're just talking out of your ass, see how easy that is?

>If you want something more substantial than that, then post something less retarded.

I would suggest you to do likewise.

>>1348880
>you just picked out one small sentence from my post and tried to paint me as some armchair psychologist

Maybe because you were acting like one? Do you have any citations to support the bullshit you were spouting?

>>1348878
>Most Zelda games yes, but LA and a few others make total sense. The limited graphics force the player to use imagination to fill in the gaps (facial expressions, tone of voice in dialogue). Ultimately it's up to the player to realize the world with their mind, as one who reads a book does. Perhaps a comic book would be a better example, maybe a children's picture book (though a damn good one).
Then you agree that LA and LTTP are two entirely different beasts, no? My argument is that on a pure gameplay standpoint, LTTP wipes the floor with LA any day. that's all. LA could have the charm of a miyazaki film for all I care, the point is "twee" things don't have an effect on me, I literally don't care. If I REALLY wanted those feelings I'd rather watch a wes anderson movie or miyazaki anime than a gameboy game, much less a zelda game.

>>1348880
LA is game play wise simply a better game.

Hit detection is awful in lttp compared to LA. Most lttp items are dull, and dungeons are mazes with reflex based puzzles. LA's puzzles were logic based for the majority.

Also the final boss in LA stomps on baton twirler.

>>1348885
>Maybe because you were acting like one?
for one sentence of my post? Okay, sorry you got asspained over me calling people who find escapism from shit life situatiuons in gameboy games autistic, I obviously stuck a nerve here and I apologize, but holy shit you need to get a grip man. The rest of my words about lttp had nothing to do with psychology in any way, shape, or form.

>Do you have any citations to support the bullshit you were spouting?

...Citations for what? My critiques on a game? Are you mentally competent, son?

>>1348897
>...Citations for what?

For what you called autism.

Come now, stay two steps behind at least.

>asspained

No one here is asspained, except maybe you. I called you out on your bullshit and then you proceeded to get all pissy.

>>1348895
Agreed.

It's funny that, despite ALttP being 16bit, its gameplay didn't feel as tight as LA's. LA felt more satisfying right down to landing a sword attack.

>>1348895
>Hit detection is awful in lttp compared to LA
No, it's not. It's more or less the same.
>Most lttp items are dull
Shitty opinion, LA has even less items and more dull items than LTTP (see how easy that is? it's lazy, express yourself better)
>dungeons are mazes with reflex based puzzles.
Wut? Yep, that's a dungeon alright... not sure where you're going with this one. LTTP's ice tower dungeon alone has a more complicated over arching puzzle that goes throughout the whole dungeon. It's a bigger puzzle than anything in LA at all, period

>>1348908
>For what you called autism.
>
>Come now, stay two steps behind at least.

How does that have any bearing on the discussion at hand, if you're steamed about my casual use of the word "autism" then I apologize, but if that's all you're bringing up here then honestly I'm going to stop replying because you're kind of slow to be honest.

>Come now, stay two steps behind at least.
That's cute that you're trying to sound intelligent but I really think the problem is that I'm probably 15 steps ahead of you at this point. It's taken me a couple of back-and forth posts of you saying a whole lot of nothing for you to finally say that it's the autism thing you want a "citation" for. I'm still not sure what it is you're wanting me to cite though, as I have made no references to printed media so far. Do you know what a citation is?

>No one here is asspained, except maybe you.
Nah, I'm good.
> I called you out on your bullshit and then you proceeded to get all pissy.
No, you said a whole lot of nothing. You're hung up on a turn of phrase I used and now you're trying to sound like I'm the one here who is being unreasonable, I've clearly stated how I felt in the very first post I made, It was pretty cut and dry wouldn't you say? you're the only one here who is dragging out an exchange of words over ultimately nothing.
Now if you have an interesting opinion, feeling, or comment, about how in my first post I stated reasons as to why from a pure gameplay standpoint LTTP<LA, say it.

>>1348912
Bullshit hit detection is the same. Bombs in particular are horrid.

So one dungeon has logic puzzles in lttp big fucking whoop. Everything else is a reflex test with the solution right in front of your face you just have move the controller. That's not a puzzle.

I can't believe how much shit lttp is getting in this thread...

>>1348928
>now you're trying to sound like I'm the one here who is being unreasonable

If you sound like you're being unreasonable (particularly to your own ears), that's a bit of a personal issue, don't you think?

>>1348931
>So one dungeon has logic puzzles in lttp big fucking whoop. Everything else is a reflex test with the solution right in front of your face you just have move the controller. That's not a puzzle.
You fucking moron, go play LTTP. You clearly don't know shit about it.

>>1348912
I don't think you've actually played LA. You're just sperging out for no reason.

>>1348935
>If you sound like you're being unreasonable (particularly to your own ears), that's a bit of a personal issue, don't you think?

Can... can you read?

>>1348936
I did and its true.

Lttp has no puzzle depth at all. Oh no the floors disappearing! Must be a puzzle and not just running across it with the right timing!

>>1348939

Can you? What I typed was pretty clear or are you going to get angry about something else now?

>>1348940
>Lttp has no puzzle depth at all. Oh no the floors disappearing! Must be a puzzle and not just running across it with the right timing!

That's not a puzzle in the game, the fact that you even think this classifies as a puzzle instead of an environmental hazard suggest to me that you may be in fact, fucking stupid.

>>1348945
Because that's the majority of the 'puzzle' content in lttp.

But hey even I can admit that does provide for more difficulty. Just not in a thinking sense.

>>1348943
>Can you? What I typed was pretty clear or are you going to get angry about something else now?
Yes, your reply made literally no sense. at all. it seems like you just picked out one line from my reply because you couldn't think of a witty little quip for it, and just ran with whatever came to you first. If you had paid attention and read you would have clearly seen that I referred to you saying things like "you got all pissy" to try and paint me as this mad person, when in reality I honesty am a tad frustrated to be replying this much to someone who can't even formulate a proper reply themselves, and instead resorts to little kid tactics. I even quoted the bit that was you doing exactly this at the end there.

>What I typed was pretty clear or are you going to get angry about something else now?
what you typed was clear, yes, but it didn't apply to the situation in the slightest, and in fact was more confusing than anything for the reasons stated above.
I'm not angry, I just want an actual, non-disparaging reply from you that actually addresses the points I made instead of you being a fucking toddler, but that seems really, really hard for you so I'll just let you type up another zinger reply and let you have your moment? sound good?

>>1348867
Personally, I thought LttP was boring to play on top of being lifeless and empty, so I'd say that LA satisfies superiority on both fronts. That's my opinion though.

>>1348876
There is no common agreement on the best Zelda game. There was some web poll last year that concluded the top five games (in no order) to be OoT, Twilight Princess, LttP, Majora's Mask, and Wind Waker, but I personally would have a far different list.

>>1348953
>Because that's the majority of the 'puzzle' content in lttp.

Except... no. I can't even really think of many of those environmental hazard BEING prominently as a "puzzle" period. ALTTP had plenty of logic puzzles in dungeons, in fact it was the first game to introduce them, chucklefuck

>>1348965
>Personally, I thought LttP was boring to play ... That's my opinion though.

and a really shitty one, at that!

http://instantrimshot.com/index.php?sound=rimshot

>>1348968
>plenty
>one dungeon

Maybe that's enough for you, but most would agree lttp is 90% enviroment difficulty 10 % logic. Saying otherwise is wearing the rose tints.

>>1348978
>Maybe that's enough for you, but most would agree lttp is 90% enviroment difficulty 10 % logic. Saying otherwise is wearing the rose tints.

But, again, it's not "one dungeon" I was merely pointing out the fact that there's literally a whole dungeon that revolves around one singular sliding block puzzle that expands across multiple floors. LTTP is chock full of logic puzzles and you're being a contrarian dick about it, the "rose tinted" shit you threw in at the end is just the cherry on top.

>>1348983
Don't forget the vague percentages gauged on his conjecture, the whole post is /v/-tier as fuck.

>>1348968
For the sake of some common ground here, what constitutes a logic puzzle in a video game?

>>1348989
A puzzle that requires logic to solve? Especially when talking about zelda it should be fairly obvious, sliding blocks puzzles are a common thing,,,, Is that an actual question being asked on /vr/? What happened to this board?

>>1348978
>Maybe that's enough for you, but most would agree lttp is 90% enviroment difficulty 10 % logic


This whole post... am I getting baited?

So, what's the consensus on the oracle games? I personally rank them between LA and LttP, but I was a Genesis kid growing up and was late to the party with LttP

>>1348983
>>1348985

You guys sure are defensive. So what if you like action geared games? Good for you.

Also, you gave that example because it's really the only one and even that dungeon falls back on environment hazards at times.

>>1349003
>So, what's the consensus on the oracle games?

Seasons is the best Zelda game.

>>1349008
As a kid, I thought ages was better, but upon a replay, I definitely agree its the better of the two.

>>1349003

>consensus

We're in a thread that's bashing lttp, clearly there can be no consensus on anything.

Both games are great for different reasons. Isn't that enough?

Why are fan bases so eager to place arbitrary personal rankings on things they like? This behavior would be fine if kept to oneself or mentioned in passing, but a whole thread dedicated to what kind of apple is best?

>>1348876
>Another question: are these two Zeldas generally considered the best two?

Definitely some of the best. In my opinion, the games from Link to the Past and up to and including Majora's Mask is the obvious peak of the series. Those four games (LttP, LA, OtT, MM) are honestly some of the best games ever made.

>>1346120
>>1346124
>>1346125
>>1346126

Did you write all this on the spot because this was terrific, you got it spot on.

>>1348854
>I personally think that you can't judge a game on things that aren't gameplay related
This is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever read on this board.

Fun fact, when Awakening was being made the directior said he wanted a world of interesting characters like yhe show Twin Peaks. This direction is wha gives LA it's character and unique world, which has in turn been the basis for the atmosphere of every subsequent Zelda game.

When I read that, everything made sense to me. LttP is great mechanically but the interesting world and characters that immerse you in the adventure (and for me, define the tone of the series) just aren't present yet.

>>1349027
Yeah, what the fuck? Why are we discussing video games on a board devoted to video game discussion? Can't we all just keep our opinions to ourselves? I mean, think, what if someone disagrees with something you say? You wouldn't want to upset them!

>>1349162
Yeah yeah opinions are wonderful.

But a shit discussion is still shit. 4chan isn't a blog site so right away the op is a faggot. Its not like he was the first to feel this way and a simple trip to the archives would confirm this. Then you may be quick to point that maybe open wants to know if others felt that way. Then I turn to you and say that's basically asking for likes and holds no real weight in an anonymous community.

People post threads like this to circle jerk and start shit.

>>1349197
I fail to see how OP's post is anything like a blog post.
He didn't say something like "AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO PREFERS LA TO ALTTP?????"
He said he's playing ALttP and LA back to back, prefers LA for [reasons], and asks others which game they prefer and why.
He isn't asking for agreement, he's asking for any opinion on the matter whether you agree or disagree, and he's asking for justification for whatever opinion you give. He's asking for discussion.

>>1348912
Didn't they completely change the ice dungeon in the gba version because Nintendo thought it was too hard?

>>1349010
You don't like Goron dancing?

>>1349252
Who the fuck in the right mind does?

If it were an optional mini game, fine.

But holy shit you better have rhythm or you're gonna be hearing the same annoying sound effects for better than an hour.

>>1349260
>But holy shit you better have rhythm

Holy shit I love being black. Seriously, though, I never had trouble with either of those dances. I mean, I messed up a few times, but some people go on about that like they were trying for hours.

>>1349260
I've actually never made it past that part of the game as a kid, I need to replay it again sometime.

>>1349271
Its more or less Zelda version of the barrel.

>>1349010
The thing I remember the most about OoA is Jabu Jabu. God, that dungeon was horrible

Ironically, the thing I remember the most about OoS is the second to last dungeon too, to be more precise, how tarm ruins had awesome music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JJEaVI3JRs

Fuck, now I wanna replay both oracles and LA.

>>1345996
I agree that ALttP felt very sloppy in its design, but Zelda 1 and 2 both had automatic shielding, and I actually prefer it because it's much faster.

OP here, and something I should state is that I can't argue that the dungeons in Link To The Past are well designed in creative ways, but from an emotional viewpoint the game did very little for me, and that's something I personally value very highly from a game.

The only reasons why anybody should think LA is better than LTTP:

1) Side scrolling.
2) Roc's feather.
3) Marin dating.
4) A/B weapon switching.

LA is nothing but a watered-down LTTP with an underdog complex.

>>1349453
5) Dungeon design
6) overworld design
7) plot
8) graphics
9) music

lttp is inferior to the gameboy games in every way.

>Link's Awakening is the best because you talk to so many people and talk to them
>Link to the Past is too dark and lonely and makes me feel sad

>>1349483
It's not dark or lonely, just fucking bland and insubstantial and generic. The world, characters, and atmosphere hardly even exist outside of whatever function they serve in terms of gameplay.

The way I see it, ALttP was amazing at the time it came out. It was big, you had lots of things to do, the gameplay mechanics were tight, and the dungeon design was creative and challenging. But at the same time, I feel like it's something you had to be there to fully appreciate. I must admit I played and beat both LA and OoT to completion before I got around to ALttP, and while I definitely like it and see why it gets the praise it does, it definitely feels like something of a prototype for what was still to come. Same goes for the original Zelda as well. I can still play both and have fun, and appreciate them despite being more primitive than the latter games, but I can't bring myself to really put them on a pedestal like others that most likely played them at release when they were kids do.

That said, Zelda II is the shit and everyone needs to play it.

>>1349356
Imagine LA with automatic shielding and the feather.

OP as fuck.

>>1348909
Words fail to express my irritation over the way LttP enemies can get themselves stuck on top of Link and keep hitting you over and over but you can't hit back. I'd take LA's combat over that any day.

>>1349546
>The world, characters, and atmosphere hardly even exist outside of whatever function they serve in terms of gameplay.
They really don't need to as long as the gameplay holds up (and it does). The GB zelda needed it because it's essentially another nes game

>>1349737
That doesn't make any sense dude. LA plays pretty much exactly like ALttP but more refined and with less inputs.

>>1349886
>more refined
>less inputs

Nope.

>>1350037
Both of these things are true.
The mechanics are a bit better and the controls are more limited, but overall it's the exact same gameplay.
It's pretty common knowledge that LA started as a port of ALttP, so that shouldn't be surprising to anyone.

>>1350061
The gameplay can't be refined since they removed buttons. They tried to make a game based around four buttons into one based on two, and it suffers for it. Constant menu swapping on a level that would make the iron boots blush, it ruins the game.

>>1350069
I agree the limited inputs hurt the game, all I'm saying is that mechanically LA is somewhat superior.
I seriously have to wonder if you've even played TLoZ when you suggest that LA is anything like it.

>>1350081
The original is better and LA doesn't even compare to it.

>>1349139
Judging a game purely on gameplay merits? Yep, fuck that shit, I want comfy!!!!

>>1349886
>more refined and with less inputs.

How is it more refined? LttP had a lot more going for it, (like a run button, for starters). You just contradicted yourself, on that point alone LA is ALREADY less refined of a game than LTTP.

>>1350180
It has nothing to do with "comfy".
A game like Day of the Tentacle isn't "comfy", but it sure as fuck isn't going to be anything other than complete shit if you judge it PURELY in terms of gameplay.

>>1344564
>>1344545

I'm not crazy about the whole Ravio rental system.. it definitely takes away that rewarding feeling you'd get in finding key items in dungeons. I know its trying to "freshen" things up, but I'd much rather they don't use this rental system again.

>>1350307
The rental system was them completely missing the point and somehow not making the entire game crash and burn was an utterly amazing thing.

>Nintendo thinks ZELDA IS AT BEST WHEN PLAYER HAS ALL THE ITEMS
>LET'S GIVE PLAYER ALL ITEMS AT ONCE
>not realizing players just want the freedom to go wherever they want and not be rail-roaded from event flag to event flag

That's what people meant by "freedom to explore" not "LULZ I CAN BEAT LEVEL 8 BEFORE LEVEL 1"

>>1350241
Then maybe, it fails as a game, yet excels everywhere else. GASP.

>>1350307
I'd kind of like to see them try a Zelda that isn't all about items.

>>1346120
>Just like in a thousand other games. And because it's so simplistic, there's not much need to add memorable NPCs - it's perfectly sufficient to just throw a couple in as item-providers. Done. You never feel particularly attached to them because you don't NEED to feel attached to them - they're not the point of the game. They're background noise.

This is one thing I really admired from Majora's mask and its use of the bomber's notebook.

>>1350325
Then it'd just be generic as fuck

>>1350331
I doubt it.

>>1350332
Items is what makes zelda, zelda. What would you do in a zelda without items? It'd be a bethesda-esque hiking/murder sim. are you mentally slow?

>>1350340
Zelda 2 had no items with any combat viability and its one of the best.

>>1350349
>its one of the best.
It was also commonly regarded as a black sheep too before the internet got big. Opinions like this don't hold water when it's some random anon saying it. There are no absolute "best" Zeldas, but considering that it's THE ONLY GAME IN THE SERIES like it, >>1350340 's
point still stands.

>>1350321
Day of the Tentacle is a video game. It isn't anything else. It can't be a bad game and still be good, that doesn't make any sense.

Why would you try to judge games by a single solitary element of their design, rather than as a whole?

Would you do this shit with movies - judge them purely in terms of their cinematography or whatever? Casting, acting, plot, music, sound design, sets, costumes, effects, editing, etc. just don't matter? Those things don't impact the quality of the movie in question?

Think for a moment. If gameplay is ALL that matters, you're telling me a game totally identical to ALttP, but with no music, Atari-esque bleeps and blops for sound effects, all graphics replaced with blank colored rectangles, no characters, no dialogue, nothing... is exactly as good as ALttP as we know it.
Hell, if it had bugfixes and polished up hit detection, you're telling me it would be BETTER than ALttP.
Do you truly believe that for even a second?

>>1350349
>Zelda 2 had no items with any combat viability
>dat moving the goalpost

It still had items that let you access more areas, like the hammer and whatnot. Just because you couldn't use them in combat doesn't mean shit. The other dude said NO items, and that's a pants-shittingly bad idea

>>1350357
There are two others like it, you just didn't play them.

Also, who made you the opinion authority? You're also just some anon.

>>1350370
the CD-I games? and I never presented myself as an authority... I'm not making sweeping statements as to what the "best" zelda games are, that was all you champ

>>1350369
a games graphics,sound, and 'gameplay' are all connected. This is espcially true of adventure games.

Using sound and visual the game needs to communicate concepts (this is a scarey monster, this is a mysterious dungeon). This can be done with extremly bad graphics and sound if the director is skilled

>>1350340
>If Zelda didn't have items it would be TES
What?
I... What?
You've got to be fucking kidding me. I'm not going to dignify this with a rebuttal. Fuck off.

>>1350367
>The other dude said NO items
Other dude here.
No I didn't. Read it again.

>>1350379
One of the best is hardly a sweeping statement. How do you know I don't consider them all best chief?

>>1350369
>Day of the Tentacle is a video game. It isn't anything else. It can't be a bad game and still be good, that doesn't make any sense.

There really isn't much "game" to it man, it's a common complaint that lucasarts point and click adventures barely classify as "games" and are more akin to an interactive cartoon, a visual novel even. Writing, art, acting, all if it is awesome. There's just not a lot of game to it.

>Why would you try to judge games by a single solitary element of their design, rather than as a whole?

Because interactivity is THE single aspect that sets them apart. The "art" of the game is how well the components the designers have constructed go together (controls, level design, rules of the game, challenge, etc) Let's just go ahead and judge games like movies, because that would make sense? right? No.

>Would you do this shit with movies - judge them purely in terms of their cinematography or whatever? Casting, acting, plot, music, sound design, sets, costumes, effects, editing, etc. just don't matter? Those things don't impact the quality of the movie in question?
No, because watching a film is an entirely passive experience. You pay attention to these things more, they matter more in film, this comparison is fucking dumb, yo. These components are the "gameplay" of movies and if you think a little harder you'll understand.

>>1350383
>>If Zelda didn't have items it would be TES
>What?
>I... What?
>You've got to be fucking kidding me. I'm not going to dignify this with a rebuttal. Fuck off.

Okay skippy, calm down from your disgenuine dumbfoundedness for one second so I can break this down for you: Modern Zelda hinges on items, the dungeons are there so you can get items, the boss has to be killed with the item, the overworld has to be explored with multiple items, put less focus on the items and all you're left with is walking around and killing shit, unless I'm missing something. A common complaint about modern TES games is that it's pretty much just walking around and killing shit

you're making it sound like I literally said zelda with no items= TES in typical "quote vaguely what I said into what you wanted to read so you can act like I'm a retard" 4chan style. good going

>>1350397
>These components are the "gameplay" of movies and if you think a little harder you'll understand
Wrong. The only things in that list of elements that set movies apart from plays are cinematography and editing.

This fact matters to you because your argument is that "interactivity is THE single aspect that sets (video games) apart", and that's why gameplay is the only thing that matters.

I'm not asking for video games to be judged like movies. I'm asking for games to be judged as a whole, not by a single element. What is unreasonable about that?

>>1350369
>Think for a moment. If gameplay is ALL that matters, you're telling me a game totally identical to ALttP, but with no music, Atari-esque bleeps and blops for sound effects, all graphics replaced with blank colored rectangles, no characters, no dialogue, nothing... is exactly as good as ALttP as we know it.

A "game totally identically to LTTP" wouldn't have those things, this argument is already pretty useless. We can sit around and jack off about "what if" all day, but the point is LTTP isn't like that. It has great graphics and sound with the gameplay to match. If I were to entertain your retardation, I really don't give a fat turtle fuck what a game looks like as long as it's fun. judging a game for anything except for how purely fun it is is like listening to music for the lyrics....

>Hell, if it had bugfixes and polished up hit detection, you're telling me it would be BETTER than ALttP.
Do you truly believe that for even a second?

uh... yeah.... a better game, is a better game period


Dude your philosophy on game design is SERIOUSLY jacked, why are you on this board

>>1350412
>Wrong. The only things in that list of elements that set movies apart from plays are cinematography and editing.

Okay.... how does that make me wrong again? A play and a movie are both very similar passive experiences and share similar elements... how exactly does this make my statement wrong?

>This fact matters to you because your argument is that "interactivity is THE single aspect that sets (video games) apart", and that's why gameplay is the only thing that matters.

It is dude... again... I'm not following you. Plays and movie makers do not have to care about rules, level design, general flow of gameplay, balancing in multiplayer cases, ideas for items, weapons, (well maybe in an action movie, but in a movie how the weapon looks is as deep as you need to go, for a game you need to consider a character's moves with it, any possible other weapons or upgrades, etc)

>I'm asking for games to be judged as a whole, not by a single element. What is unreasonable about that?
Because a game can have shitty voice acting, shitty art, bad textures, and still be fun as all fuck. Just because it doesn't look pretty to your eyes or sound good to your ears doesn't make it any less of a fun game. Now tell me why THAT is so unreasonable, and why you so badly want things not gameplay related to be critiqued when ultimately THESE THINGS ARE INCONSEQUENTIAL AS FUCK.

A game could have the most beautiful graphics... hell, now that I think about it.. (contd)

No point in arguing with modern gamer kids, honestly. They grew up on garbage like Metal Gear Solid and have seriously FUCKED ideas about why a game is good.

Just go play your goddamn Call of Duty garbage and leave the good games to us, okay?

>>1350429
(cont) not retro but FFXIII was an amazing looking game. Oh my god. It was beautiful. And the sound? Awesome as well. The voice acting wasn't half bad either! But when it came to PLAYING the GAME it was literally running along corridors and autobattle. It failed as a game

Please do not ever seek employment in game design, ever.

>>1350435
I really think there is a generational divide forming with movie-games like MGS, kids are getting a warped idea on what games are (were, I guess.) supposed to be. They're so FIXATED on elements of games that literally don't matter when it comes to the medium.

>>1350410
>I really don't give a fat turtle fuck what a game looks like as long as it's fun. judging a game for anything except for how purely fun it is is like listening to music for the lyrics....
I have a few problems with this.
1. We're talking about gameplay, not fun.
2. Fun doesn't come only from gameplay. People enjoy plenty of non-interactive things like movies and books and music, don't they?
3. Games don't have to be fun to be good. The entire point of the survival horror genre is to make you feel tense and scared and uncomfortable and shit, not to be fun.
4. Lyrics, if they are included at all, are an important part of the song and certainly have some impact on quality, good or bad.

>>1350442
>1. We're talking about gameplay, not fun.
Gameplay is the catalyst to fun: shitty gameplay, no fun, bad game. okay there's one shitty point down.
>People enjoy plenty of non-interactive things like movies and books and music, don't they?
>That Phil k dick book sure was fun, An Inconvenient truth sure was a fun movie, Gummo was so fun! Man, akira kurosawa sure does make fun movies, so does woody allen!
>Man, Metal Gear solid sure is fun! Man, I got so spooked playing RE, it's a blast! Mario, Zelda, Kirby, Smash, sonic, Gradius, Streets of Rage are some of the most fun games around. Quake is sooo fun!

One of these things is not like the other...

>3. Games don't have to be fun to be good.
What the FUCK did you just say? Seriously, what you just said is so wrong I want to cry. what is wrong with you people?

> The entire point of the survival horror genre is to make you feel tense and scared and uncomfortable and shit, not to be fun.

But that's exactly what's fun about it... no one is actually scared of horror games unless they're literally a kid, the adrenaline rush it gives you is the source of the fun, derived from the gameplay

Do you follow? Or are you one of those "games are art" asshats that needs to be put in a gas chamber

>>1350429
>Okay.... how does that make me wrong again?
I answered that in the next sentence.

>Plays and movie makers do not have to care about rules, level design, general flow of gameplay, balancing in multiplayer cases, ideas for items, weapons, (...) for a game you need to consider a character's moves with it, any possible other weapons or upgrades, etc)
Not following you here. So a game maker has more things to worry about than a film maker. How does this lead to the conclusion that all that matters in a video game is the gameplay?

>Because a game can have shitty voice acting, shitty art, bad textures, and still be fun as all fuck
I am not denying that, and I have not denied anything like that previously.
I AM denying the claim that this hypothetical game wouldn't be improved by having good voice acting, good art, and good textures.

>Just because it doesn't look pretty to your eyes or sound good to your ears doesn't make it any less of a fun game
It does.
To make an extreme example, imagine if ALttP had the music of Crazy Bus playing at all times. Surely we can both agree that that music is annoying. Can we not also agree that hearing annoying music at all times would detract from the experience of playing the game and make it a little bit less fun? If not, why not?

Look, I absolutely agree that gameplay is BY FAR the most important element for the vast majority of games.
It's just not the ONLY thing that matters.

I'm a huge Zelda fan, love and have finished LoZ, Zelda 2, ALttP, OoT, MM, MC, PO, and ST. But for some reason I could never get into the Gameboy games. I've tried them both and I don't know why, but the magic just wasn't there. Of course, I never had a Gameboy growing up -- I was a kid in the 80s, but just didn't have a Gameboy...I've gone back and played on an emulator -- so maybe that makes a difference.

>>1350476
You play star tropics yet?

>>1350476
i'm this guy and i just realized i don't know what the fuck i'm talking about... i couldn't get into oracle of ages or oracle of seasons, i've never even tried link's awakening...maybe i should try it

>>1350476
I have the same issue. I even hold Spirit Tracks in high regard even when it's usually considered one of the weakest entries.

I tried Oracle of Seasons years ago but ditched it after the first dungeon in favor of Minish Cap, which I completed.

Last year I tried my hardest to "like" Link's Awakening, to no avail. A month later my failed attempt I did another full Link to the Past playthrough and enjoyed it plenty.

My only "chilhood zelda" game is OoT, by the way, so no nostalgia involved.

My guess is the music and weird sound effects of the GB/C aren't "engaging" enough for me.

For LTTP seeming claustrophobic to you, it might have to do with the map system. For me, it always made the overworld seem smaller than it actually is. I never saw that as a problem, though. Personally, relative to the other Zelda games, I think LTTP perfectly blended the open world design with the linear storyline.

>>1350453
>shitty gameplay, no fun, bad game
I agree with this.
I just don't agree with gameplay being the only thing that affects enjoyment of a video game. A game with average gameplay and excellent everything else is going to be more enjoyable than a game with average gameplay and average everything else, simply by virtue of enjoying the music or art or atmosphere or story or voice acting or whatever on its own, if nothing else.
That being the case, you cannot use "fun" and "gameplay" interchangeably. It just doesn't work.

>no one is actually scared of horror games unless they're literally a kid, the adrenaline rush it gives you is the source of the fun, derived from the gameplay
That don't make no sense.
If you aren't tense, scared, or uncomfortable, then there simply is no adrenaline rush.
That you'd say this is especially curious when not but a few lines above, you said this:
>I got so spooked playing RE, it's a blast
Clearly you understand that getting spooked is the entire appeal of that sort of game.
Now I ask you, how can you be spooked if you're having fun? How can you be spooked if you're having "enjoyment, amusement, or lighthearted pleasure"?
The enjoyment comes from reflecting on how spooked something in the game made you after the fact, not from actually playing the game. If you're having "lighthearted pleasure" WHILE playing the game, then it's not an effective survival horror game.

>>1350560
Do you have fun on a roller coaster?
It's because of the adrenaline rush. A roller coaster tricks your lower brain processes into thinking you might die, so you get a rush out of it. You would still call a roller coaster "fun" and most people aren't actually SCARED of them.