/vr/ - Retro Games

bump

it's still up, but getting close to 400 posts. you don't have to bump on this board,your thread was on like page 2after 30minutes

>>1295352

Oh there it is, they really should add "CRT" to the topic.

Just hit ctrl+F in the catalog and couldnt find a thing

I think we should have two types of CRT threads. One which we show off and ask how to improve their display, and one which we show and discuss seriously old school TVs like in the OP. I love how those old TVs look.

>>1295614
This can be a "vintage TV" thread I suppose.

I recently have gotten the bug to try to find as small a (color) CRTs as I can. I bought a 5" Realistic brand the other day for $5 which is more than I usually pay for stuff like that but it came with its original DC adapter and a snap on battery pack pedestal that holds TEN FUCKING D CELL BATTERIES

I've been playing Castlevania on it. The color is nice and bright but holy crap the shadow mask has about the same density as on larger 80s TVs so the effective resolution of the screen is like ~120 diagonal hexes.

I can get a Kv-32xbr450 for free and wanted to know if there is any downside to using a Hi-Scan Trinitron besides loss of light-gun use?

>>1295329
Ha, I have a trinitron almost exactly like the one in the OP, aside from the fact that all of the dials are on the right rather than the bottom. Gorgeous picture, I feel so lucky that I found it at a thrift store for $10. Looked it up and found that it was manufactured in 1969, so cool that it had a chance of being used to watch the moon landing.

Eventually I'll probably get something bigger since you've got to sit pretty close to a 12 inch set.

There was one of those "remember the 90's" threads on /v/ where they were showing off random advertisements of-then state-of-the-art appliances, including TVs with "Picture in Picture" and projection TVs. Someone mentioned that CRT technology was surprisingly advanced, since according to him, the technology barely changed since the late 1800s. Would there be any truth to that?

>>1296351
Maybe he's talking about the cathode ray tube itself. But the television was invented in the 1920s, and was definitely far worse then than it was in the 90s.

Picked up one of these lovelies on Ebay. I don't know if the listing is still there, but $75 with free shipping seems like a good deal for me for a monitor that will take composite but is also open to RGB. Honestly, as long as it works with the Zapper and Justifier, it's all right with me.

>>1295329
Any permutation of the phrase, "used in a broadcast workroom" is usually a good sign, but check for any reports of wear on the description or listing.

>>1296379
I see. I find it amazing that technology from the 20's not only didn't change much, it lived for a really long time before being classified as obsolete.

>>1296401
Forgot the picture

>>1296379
>>1296408
Television as it existed in the 20s was VERY different from the CRT-based technology that became popular after WW2.

what connections does a PVM-14N5A have?

>>1296509
>14N5A
Composite and S-Video

>find TV
>see this

>>1296519
I wonder if that's actually a SCART adapter and you could jury rig it off and use real SCART.

Can you recommend me a good, small(<18") tv around 50€? I don't have any consoles so it would be nice if I could connect my pc to it. Is that even possible?

What's a good CRT for playing SNES or NES games.

>>1299104
Sony Trinitron 20" (or 27" if you want a bit bigger)
Make sure it has S-Video hookup in the back.

I found a 15" JVC monitor for $25 but it only has composite and S-video inputs, but it has room for an expansion module.

Should i get it and hope i can find the right RGB/Component module for it?

So I went to Best Buy to find a component switcher and they had two to choose from, I ended up buying this one. I spent forever looking at the two to make sure I got the right one but I could only see what was on the packaging and neither one gave sufficient information, and believe it or not I got screwed. It turns out I need a S-video cable to hook up the switcher thing to the component plugs of the TV... wtf is that, did I go "full retard"

>>1299896
That's not a component switcher, simply an S-Video/Composite + Audio one.

>>1299908
What is the difference

>>1300027
Composite is a single yellow plug that carries video. S-video is a single black plug with a bunch of pins in it that carries video. Component is three red, green, and blue cables that carry video. All three of these plug types are usually paired with a red plug and a white plug to carry stereo audio. The switch you have their is designed to switch between inputs that use composite or s-video plus stereo audio.

>>1300027
Assuming you not making the common (around here at least) mistake of confusing Component and Composite:

Red box is component video
Green is composite
Yellow is s-video
Blue is audio

Yours will take Composite/S-Video and audio and, and put Composite/S-Video and audio out.

This one will do that as well, but can also accept Component in and put component out.

>>1300045
>Yours will take Composite/S-Video and audio and
audio in*

>>1300043
Actually, you can cheat here because composite, component, and stereo audio use the exact same type of cable just with different colors on them. You could still use that switch for component video by plugging the red/green/blue cables into the red/yellow/white plugs. The only problem is you won't have enough plugs left to switch the audio too.

>>1300043
>>1300045
I'm just using it for N64/SNES/NES etc which all have composite and audio so it should be fine for that, the problem is I don't have an S-video cable to get it to the TV, I thought the switcher would have the red/yellow/white plugs built in and I would go from there. Are there any switchers with a setup like that or do I need to get an S-video cable? I've never used one of those before, so something isn't sitting well with me about it. I don't even know if my TV has an S-video plug.

>>1300079
Oh, I get what you're saying now.

One of those groups should be marked output. All you need is a set of RCA to RCA cables to go from there to the TV.

You could probably find some cheaper, but something like this will work:
http://www.amazon.com/RiteAV-Audio-Video-Cable-feet/dp/B000V0DY7U

>>1300093
Oh shit, I know I have some of those I use with my LaserDisc player, but they're only red and white. I'll try that

>>1300103
If you use one with the yellow part on the switcher, and one with either the red or white, you can at least get video and mono audio with that.

Seems the other /crt/ thread is dead
Help me, i can't find anything on a sony trinitron service menu that adjust tilt correction.
After some search everything points to the yoke deflector

Looks good so far

>>1300121
If it's one of the newer FD/WEGA (flatscreen Trinny) sets, there should be a simple option in the normal menu for that.

>>1300146
already tweak it to the max, the range goes from -5 to +5.
+5 and still not center image

>>1300045
>>1300050
Hey now, what's with the trip off/trip on shens?

>>1300052
You're fine doing this only if you stick to SD. At higher frequencies you are asking for blurriness using an unterminated passive switch.

>>1300079
If you want to keep using the switch you just bought and don't want to mod any of your systems or buy any S-video cables, just get a short mono-stereo Y-adapter cable and plug it into the switch-side of the NES mono audio cable. That way when you switch inputs you'll get sound out of both speakers even with the NES.

>>1300121
There's nothing dead about it except for the fact that people have started posting here instead of there thanks to the OP of that thread not having "CRT" in it.
>>1277231

>>1300557
>Hey now, what's with the trip off/trip on shens?
4chanX/Appchan shitting itself and deciding to attach it only when it feels like it.

>>1296185
Yeah, it'll line double older 15KHz games. Still beats the shit out of an lcd though.

>mfw looking on Craigslist and seeing all the free tv's
Hopefully picking up a free 32" Triniton tomorrow.

It's a flat screen CRT, which means no light guns.
Any recommendations for the best CRT to play games on that I can use a light gun with?

>>1300668
>It's a flat screen CRT, which means no light guns.
Who is going around telling people this stuff?! I am reading this untruth way too often here on /vr/.

Flat-glass CRT SDTVs or monitors running the unmolested signal at the original scanrate are just fine. There's nothing about a CRT screen's flatness that means "no light guns."

You only have to watch out for EDTVs and HDTVs, which tend to deinterlace and scale the image. This kills the light gun.

>>1300714
Well. I have a flat screen crt currently and I was having a lot of trouble with light guns with it. They worked, but very poorly.
I pulled out an older, smaller CRT that's curved and it worked much better.
If you have an alternate explanation I'm more than happy to hear it.

>>1300718
>>1300668
My Flat screen Wega trinitron works fine with light guns.

>>1300718
Just tested it to make sure I'm not crazy.
It has trouble detecting shots at the edge of the screen, moreso the bottom and the sides than the top. There's about an inch of space where I'm simply unable to shoot, regardless of the angle I'm pointing the gun. It's also very picky about how far away from the tv I am. The gun also has to be ~1' 4"-1' 8" away from the tv or else it thinks I'm shooting off screen. It's very picky about how far away I am. I am however unable to change the contrast/brightness
My other tv allows me to shoot the edges of the screen and is much more lenient with my distance from the tv.

G... Guys, the CRT thread is here >>1277231
OP forgot to put CRT in the title.

>>1300136
Setup looks like shit brah

>>1299475
Anyone?

>>1299475
>>1302743
Well first off, assume that you will never find the right input board, or that it is prohibitively expensive once you do find it. Would the monitor be worth that price to you then?

Speaking only for myself, I'd get it. Pro S-video monitors are nice to have around too.

I havent been able to find much info on these colorful Sony's. Anyone know if they were released in Euroland with SCART inputs?

Old /crt/ general wasn't dead; it simply wasn't text-findable from the catalog because of a poorly-constructed OP.

This is now the official interim /crt/ general thread.

I'm having some trouble getting my NEC xm37 to take RGB with composite sync through the BNC connectors. This is my first time messing with soldering and electronics in general, and it has proven very frustrating so far.

It works fine when I used a VGA -> BNC breakout cable to get a picture form my dreamcast, but dreamcast uses separate HV sync signals. One of the BNC pegs is labeled "H/CS", which I safely assume means that it takes composite sync there.

Originally, it wouldn't sync because it doesn't seem to take composite video as sync. It would get a garbled picture during scenes with mostly black (LttP while the triforce first slides into the screen), then it would cut out entirely once more color was displayed.

I put a LM1881 chip in the cable to clean the sync signal up, but now I get no picture at all. I checked the BNC leads with a multimeter to make sure each one was giving off some kind of voltage with the system on.

I don't know what else to test to diagnose my problem.

Pic is the monitor working with s-video.

>>1295614
A thread for non-gamers.

>>1295329
If you're using a TV for gaming in any capacity then you've fucked up plain and simple.

Monitors or bust, that is unless you want the defining element of the device you use to look at games to be it's ability to tune television signals and seldom support any reasonable video inputs.

>>1306338
Edgemaster, teach us all your sharp ways

>>1306338
>Do things my autistic way or I won't allow you to play games

If you actually enjoyed games, you wouldn't care what kind of display you used.

So what are the differences between regular CRTs and flatscreen CRTs? I've been browsing craiglist and the majority of CRTs available within a two hundred mile radius are flatscreens.

>>1306985
If they are flat SDTVs, don't worry about it.

If they are HDTVs, don't get them for pre-Dreamcast retro. They'd be fine for Dreamcast and newer though.

>>1306315
>I put a LM1881 chip in the cable to clean the sync signal up, but now I get no picture at all.
I think you forgot the 75 ohms termination.

btw
>LM1881 + non-standard signal by /vr/ consoles
That's a not so fine combination when you do it directly. I experienced sync problems with certain pictures/games/consoles, i figured that either it's too weak and/or the LM1881 has a problem with colorburst pulses during the vblank.
From the LM1881 datasheet:
>Some video discs keep the chroma burst pulse present throughout the vertical blanking period so that the burst actually appears on the sync tips for three line periods instead of at black level.
>A clean composite sync signal can be generated from these sources by filtering the input signal. When the source impedance is low, typically 75Ω, a 620Ω resistor in series with the source and a 510 pF capacitor to ground will form a low pass filter with a corner frequency of 500 kHz.
>This bandwidth is more than sufficient to pass the sync pulse portion of the waveform
Of course, this alone only works when the source impedance is low, and in my case (PAL SNES) it wasn't. So i googled some simple video amplifier circuits and found something good enough for my purposes. After tweaking the circuit the sync was rocksolid.
I used that amp in my Scart RGB->YUV converter and Scart RGB horizontal shifter, and it worked way better than before.
I used 2N3906 and 2N3904, but any general purpose transistors should work.

>>1296519
Chances are it just has the molding of an EU display. Ability to add a SCART socket depends on the chassis but it seems likely.

>>1297468
I want one of those PVM 2130 QM so bad, they're perfect.

>>1300136
Those combo TVs look like shit visually.

>>1307672

I have a dilemma: I have the possibility to get a hand on both a PVM and a KX-14CP1 at a moderate price, but which one should i get first?

>>1307708
PVM are far more feature rich and depending on model you'll have better geometry control too.

Depends on the PVM though, don't bother with anything smaller than 14". I have a 9"er and it's pretty shit for anything but arcade games.

>>1307709

It's a 1440xx (I'm still waiting for the seller's answer to my mails). Thanks for the advice, I'll see for the PVM first, and if the negotiations fail or take too much time, I'll go for the KX-14CP1.

>>1307672

I pop a boner every time I see your setup

>>1306338
Then recommend me a good monitor hombre.

>>1307732
I was playing Daytona USA earlier and the colours are simply unreal.

I performed this mod to my JP Saturn and used my model 2 Official RGB SCART lead into the display.

http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?13966-Mod-How-to-make-an-NTCS-Saturn-work-with-an-EU-scart-cable

>>1307714
Just make sure it's a component/RGB model instead of an s-video/composite PVM.

>>1306338
It isn't so bad if you live in Europe. My KX-14CP1 is far superior to any consumer display I've owned though, being a monitor as it is.

>>1307756
>encouraging more posts from that arrogant anon
pls

>>1307758
There are S-video/RGB PVMs.

>>1307775
The smaller ones such as the 1440xx tend to be either one or the other.

>>1307776
I have an old 13/14" PVM with both at home. No part # ahndy right now, though.

To be clear, the RGB port I'm talking about on mine is CMPTR and the S-video is 2xRCA. You need adapters to use it with consoles, but it works.

>>1307785
>ahndy
*handy

>>1307167
There's a switch on the back of the monitor under each input that lets me select between "75ohm" and "high". I'm not sure if that is what you are talking about, but I did try both settings.

I followed this guide when making the circuit:
http://www.mmmonkey.co.uk/composite-sync-stripper-lm1881/

I tried to connect the setup to my fw900 monitor. It told me that it doesn't support that video signal, but it DID recognize it as 15.7khz. I'm thinking that something is wrong with my NEC rather than my electronics.

Are there displays that accept 15khz over everything except RGB?

So I open my sony trinitron to move the yoke and make some tilt correction while i was inside i notice dust on the glass and try to cleaning with an old t-shirt and some windex but looks like i was making it worst so i stop, when it was dry i turn it on and now the TV is making this loud noise.

>>1307817
>Are there displays that accept 15khz over everything except RGB?
Some shitty LCD sets nowadays ("VGA" port which only accepts 31KHz+, while the YPbPr accepts down to 15KHz) but that's all I've seen.

I have a JVC broadcast monitor and i just bought a Atari 7800.

Anyone know where i can buy a cheap RF demodulator that isnt too big so i can actually use the thing?

I don't want a big VCR hanging around and tuning is usually a pain.

>>1307926
>i notice dust on the glass and try to cleaning with an old t-shirt
Okay nothings wrong with it, just do this carefully.

>and some windex
oh_shit_nigga_what_are_you_doing.jpg

>now the TV is making this loud noise.
I remember the time when i connected the 2pin plug of the grounded metal shielding to the DGC-CHK connector instead of the ground connector, the result was just like that.

But did you heard some sort of hiss, when you did some not so professional things to the back your Trinitron?

I have a chance to buy a 14L1 for $10 in "working" condition on craigslist.
The seller says there is one button pushed in when it hit something, otherwise, case looks in good condition.
Should I?
I've had no experience with anything beyond an HD CRT

>>1308024
>I forgot
Also the button that pushed in is still in the case apparently.

>>1308029
Also it seems to only have the two composite (BNC) connectors. Is there an easy way to have it accept RGB through BNC like this, or not?
Again, sorry if my questions are ludicrous, as I have no idea what I'm really talking about, except for some amateur electronics experience.

I know literally nothing about these. Saw this on craigslist though. Considering it to play ps2/gamecube and lower games on. Is it good?

How do I get one of these? I don't care if it's 200+ bucks. Or that I might have to import one. I just want one period.

>>1308098
Forgot to mention it's 32' and is 25$.

>>1308105
Besides looking cool is it anything special?

>>1308118
It's still being made, has av, a digital tuner, and is just AWESOME. And it's only sold in South Korea. I can't find anywhere to get one.

>>1308105
I'll bet those legs last for about 6 months.

>>1308126
Clearly you need to get it from south korea.

>>1308095
>>1308024
There was a discussion in a previous CRT general where an Anon inquired about modding his TV to accept RGB, but unless you've got experience with that sort of thing, I wouldn't try.

For $10, you'll have a fantastic monitor for running games through s-video, which is above-average video quality.

>>1308098
KV32FS320 is a standard definition FD Trinitron WEGA with a 32'' flat-screen, and comes with component, s-video, composite, and coax inputs. If you like larger TVs, this is about as good as you're going to find, this is an absolutely ideal set for retro gaming. Weight on that model is 187 pounds though, so be careful lifting it.

Happy New Year, fellow tubers!

>>1307972
Hope you got 30-40 bux. That's the common price on Amazon for a standalone analog tuner for VGA monitors that also has plain composite output. Plus the thing may have lag for all anyone really knows. Hopefully someone here can tell you from experience.

>>1307973
Diluted Windex is safe for glass tubes that don't have a non-glare coating on them.

With the popularity of older games rising, I'm surprised that a company hasn't made a specific tv that would have all of the right connectors and such to give older games that 'pop'.

>>1308418
Alright. How difficult would you consist it to be? (other than the voltages present) I was looking through the archive and several posts made it seem like ask you would need are the schematics and materials to transfer the whole rgb input to a usable jack

>>1308835
*consider

Also I wanted to stress that I wouldn't try this modification until I was sure of what I was doing

>>1308838
Ugh * seem like all

>>1308825
It's not as big as you think. So much money would go into a tv that only a few would buy. I'd guess out of 100 people asked only about 5 or 10 play anything but the newest playstation or xbox.

Other thread 404'd, but here's the OP from the previous thread. Seems to be running the usual RGB to PVM setup, but mine doesn't seem to be too far off.

So what's the future of display technology for retro games?
CRT production is pretty much stopped at this point, and our old monitors will only last so long.

OLED is amazing and offers nearly all the benefits of a CRT, but old consoles will have to be scaled to 4k. Many consumer report websites say that OLED will always be very expensive and difficult to get.

Many LCD's have very short response times now, but they still suffer from motion blur. Only IPS offers CRT level color quality, but it's notorious for motion blur.

Any ideas?

>>1309246
And here is mine. Yeah, I'm that guy, so what.

Can't seem to post this image due to filesize, so here's a link. Pic not related since there's no way to cancel an image upload once you select something.

http://i41.tinypic.com/2zemtdf.jpg

I want to use my old CRT but I can't handle the high-pitched noise that they make. It feels like a drill into my skull. How do you deal with this shit?

>>1309294
headphones

>>1309248
>Any ideas?
Does display technology X scans like a CRT?
If not, then i consider it worthless for retro gaming (MUH LIGHTGUNS).

Also this:
http://hackaday.com/2011/12/31/full-color-laser-tv/

>>1309294
It was an everyday occurrence for over 2/3 of my life, so seems totally normal to me. The noise feels somewhat nostalgic now I don't hear it so often. And yes I can still hear frequencies that high.

If the CRT is really squealing then it may have problems.

>>1309248
>offers nearly all the benefits of a CRT

Except the flicker, which is necessary for good motion quality

Just found out the model # of my new Trinitron. kv-27v10. I'm thinking about getting S-Video cables for the consoles that have those cables. Will I notice a huge difference?

>>1309595
>Will I notice a huge difference?
You should if your TV and cables are working right, especially on fine details.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDRAHRnyVgM

Made a quick vid on my KX-14CP1 for anyone considering purchasing one.

>>1309294
It never bothered me, unless I have the damn thing running all the time with no other sounds coming from it.

Hell, we still rock CRTs at my place, so I'm used to it. However, is it possible to make a CRT without that sound, or no?

>>1308418
Thanks. I did some looking about with the model number of the tv I post and found it was huge with plenty of hook ups. Didn't know if it was quality screen and such though. I'll text the owner and see if I can go pick it up soon. 25$ seems reasonable to me.

Hey guys, I've been thinking about getting a nice CRT for my
NES, Genesis, etc.
Do you guys think one is worth the effort of picking it up?

http://dayton.craigslist.org/zip/4268225914.html

>>1295329
Which PVM would you all recommend that balances price and available inputs?

Is it just me or does EVERY TV show/Movie from the 90s have PVMs in them? Even in horror movies with normal medium or low income families I feel like I'm seeing them EVERYWHERE.

Picture related. Is this set a RGB monitor?

>>1310595
It isnt just you, either Sony had a deal with movie studios or they just used monitors they had laying around.

In the movie contact, literally ever TV, PC and video monitor is a Sony.

>>1310595
Looks like a 2030 or a 2530

>>1310603

>>1310615

Then I guess I was right. Jesus, this is torture. I kind of wish I didn't know. Now every time I watch an old movie I'm going to be looking for RGB monitors.

>>1310595
is that Sliders?

>>1310640

Yeah, I'm watching it for the first time if you can believe it. Didn't really watch a lot of live action stuff in the 90s.

>>1310028
Somebody probably could have made some kind of noise-dampening chassis, but I doubt anyone ever did.

>>1310508
Doesn't look worth any hassle to use for anything from NES onward. It looks RF-only.

>>1311064
Yeah I thought so to.
This pic is just confusing to me though. Does anyone know if this is just placeholders for a different model of the tv that has more inputs?

>>1311145
No, these are adjustment trimmers (screws).

>>1311152
Ah ok. With how fuzzy that picture is I couldn't tell that those were screws in there very well. I see them now. Thank you!

>>1311145
Nah, those are dials for making adjustments with a screwdriver, not placeholders for inputs.

>>1309538
Some modern 120hz monitors have strobe lights in them. I have one and it's pretty damn impressive.
http://www.blurbusters.com/zero-motion-blur/lightboost/

>>1302604
Y do you say that

Does anyone care to explain somtehing to me?
480i means there are 480 lines, however only ever second line is refreshed.
240p means there are also 480 lines, where ever second line is just black (muh scanlines), the non-black 240 lines are refreshed everytime.
Is that right so far?

So if I have a TV like a PVM with 600,800 or even 900 lines resolution, what happens with the lines after the 480, that I actually need?
Shouldn't there be a huge boarder on top or below the screen?

>>1307973
Not hiss, more like a static charge and the noise is more hummmm than buzzzzz

>>1311317
>480i means there are 480 lines, however only ever second line is refreshed.
>240p means there are also 480 lines, where ever second line is just black (muh scanlines), the non-black 240 lines are refreshed everytime.
480i are 240 active lines per field and 480 active lines per frame. Every 2nd field carries the odd lines and next field the even lines (or vice versa).
240p are 240 active lines per field and 480 active lines per frame*. Every field carries only odd or even lines, and a good CRT SDTV scans it like this. The spaces between the scanlines are never really hit by the electron guns because they are focused to scan <480 lines on the screen.
However there are 262.5 total lines per field (262 or 263 for non-interlaced aka 240p) and 525 total lines per frame (524 or 526 for non-interlaced). But it takes time until the falling edge of sawtooth gets to the other side, that's why it's pointless to put video in all these lines so it's partially left black. This is also referred as blanking.
Also there are visible lines which are defined by the overscan of the TV.
*not really a mistake, in my logic: frame=previous field + current field.

>So if I have a TV like a PVM with 600,800 or even 900 lines resolution, what happens with the lines after the 480, that I actually need?
>Shouldn't there be a huge boarder on top or below the screen?
Nope, you're thinking of digital LCD panels with pixels.
Scanning in a CRT works with electromagnetic deflection. Two coils at the neck are driven with two sawtooth waves synchronized to the to the sync signals of the video. Also this is the reason why CRTs have an infinite resolution but that's only theoretical, the shadow mask/aperture grille sets the limit for the usable maximum resolution.

>>1311381
>Not hiss
I actually meant if you heard an hiss while the TV was off. Because if you broke the vacuum sealing of an CRT (no, this can't be fixed) on the back then you would hear an hiss.

>more like a static charge and the noise is more hummmm than buzzzzz
Let me repost that:
>I remember the time when i connected the 2pin plug of the grounded metal shielding to the DGC-CHK connector instead of the ground connector, the result was just like that.
Have you unplugged some internal wire? Then you might plugged it in the wrong place, like i did a long time ago.

>>1311396
Didn't unplugged a thing, just move the yoke a bit to correct tilt

>>1311317
>So if I have a TV like a PVM with 600,800 or even 900 lines resolution

No, this is a completely different thing. "TV lines" or TVL is the measurement of the horizontal resolution of analogue video.
Scanlines may scan horizontally, but they define the vertical resolution of the picture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_lines

TVL are not directly comparable to horizontal pixels. With CRTs the biggest factor that dictates horizontal resolution is probably the dot pitch and quality of the screen.

>>1311492
How did you do this? I'm scared shitless of making any adjustments like this with my old PVM (no service menu, all manual) as I haven't a clue what I can touch while it's on that won't blast me across the room.

>>1311389
I think anon really just wanted clarification on vertical "TV lines" vs. scanned horizontal lines.

>>1311317
>So if I have a TV like a PVM with 600,800 or even 900 lines resolution, what happens with the lines after the 480, that I actually need?
TV lines, such as the specs you quote, are vertical. When you count them you are measuring horizontal resolution. This is how displays with more TV lines can be sharper (horizontally) than displays with a capability of fewer TV lines when displaying the same content (with a static count of horizontal lines, like 240 for 240p).

>>1311721
fuuuuu
>>1311684

That's what I get for typing the beginning of my post before grabbing lunch and then not scrolling down.

>>1311692
I clueless also. Just try to not touch any metal stuff, be brave, use tools like a stick of dry wood,
don't be nervous as you could sweat all over the circuits.

Is $225 out of the question for a PVM 1943? I had a guy offer one to me.

It seems like $100 high to me

>>1312251
yes. there's a medical device reselling place near me where I can get 20m models for $40 any day and as many as I can handle

>>1312258
Where do you live?

>>1312258
20m?

>>1312260
MN
>>1312263
pvm 20m2mdu

A guy there loves to see me come in with friends because it means he doesn't have to send however many we buy to nightclub owners in mexico

>>1312285
Ah, alright

>>1312285
>>1312304
What would be the fair asking price for a 14 to 19 inch one?

>>1312317
realistically, since not everyone has access to cheap ones like me I'd say around $100 for 14" and $150-75 for a 19. But keep checking craigslist, not too long ago I saw a 14" in the free section when I went to look for it again it was gone though :(

>>1308024
>ve a chance to buy a 14L1 for $10 in "working" condition on craigslis
yeah that one in Novi?
I was thinking about it but like, I think I would settle for a 20+incher you know?
But hey man, there isnt much else in the area, and fuck 250 in MT clemens

anyone know how good phillips matchline crt's are? Ive found a few 32" 100hz models locally going cheap.

>>1312320
Thanks

That's what I though. The guy is trying to pull one over on me, I think.

Granted, I live in an area where getting cheap ones would be hard but he quoted me $180 for the "E-bay" price and then wanted $225

Fuck that

poster of >>1312440 here, i'm planning to get a nice crt for ps1 & earlier generation consoles, will a 100hz crt be noticably any better than a 60hz tv for these systems or a total waste of time when the fastest signal from a system that old will be 60hz? im wondering if 100hz is easier on the eyes like crt monitors?

>>1312641

i guess what i'm asking is do 100hz crt's use some kind of frame doubling algorythm to make up for the framerate upscale to 100hz from a 60hz (or 50hz pal) input signal or do they sync to it?

The model of the scree you just see is a Sony Trinitron KV-14M1B. I'm seeing now how to get a KX-14CP1 I saw a few days ago.

>>1313049

...and I forgot the pic.

>>1313056

Same set, different game. As it's a Thunder Force IV shot, I'm forced to post this, to honnor the most rocking soundtrack on Sega Megadrive:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psSamm93uCE

>>1312641
>>1312835
100Hz TVs use frame interpolation so they have shit latency and are useless for gaming.

A lot of PC monitor CRTs support true 100Hz or higher, but CRTs are only good if the framerate matches the refresh rate (or is higher if you don't mind tearing). No console game outputs 100fps so there's no benefit. You could duplicate frames but then you might as well use an LCD because you lose the motion quality.

>>1313130

For a PC CRT monitor, I think the Quake 3 at 125 FPS make a great use of the high refresh rate.

Why do CRTs make such scary noises?

Why are CRTs scary in general?

I'm glad Persona 4 touched on how creepy these TVs are, I thought I was the only one creeped out a bit.

>>1307756
PVMs are common and have great image quality, they typically support RGB, composite, component and s-video.

To get the most out of it you really need RGB, here is a great resource about getting RGB compatibility out of consoles (some just need a cable, some need extensive modding): http://retrorgb.com/systems.html

You can also try the emulation route but getting the right resolution with the right aspect ratio can be a real pain along with the typical emulation problems (input lag primarily, although that can be mitigated to an extent).

Modding a Wii for emulation isn't good enough IMO (but not by much).

>>1313067

>>1313130
Don't bother with anything other than 60hz (or whatever your console runs at, 50hz for PAL) as the games are hard-coded for a particular frame-rate. Interpolation causes lag and judder, avoid it at all costs!

>>1313754
AND THAT'S WHY I LOVE THEM.

>>1312357
Yeah, I actually just bought it this morning, will post pics tomorrow or so if you want.
I still want to see how hard it would be to add RGB inputs on it, if it's possible at all.

>>1313784

Wow! Nice scanlines anon!

>>1313754
You remind me of some memorable scenes in old horror movies that you might want to avoid if you already find CRTs creepy. Don't highlight the following spoiler if you think you might be too freaked out to know about them.

Poltergeist

>>1311389
>>1311684
>>1311721
Thanks guys!

Are the colors supposed to look saturated with an RGB input? I've used composite all my life.

>>1314328

Does the colors looked saturated when you used to use a CRT monitor on a PC?
You got the answer.

>>1314328

Did the colors looked saturated when you still used CRT PC monitors?
Now you have the answer.

>>1314328
Sort off. But composite always looked too colorful (by default) in my opinion. But RGB (on the most Scart sets) looks always darker than composite (like 75%). I deal with that contrast difference by using an additional 75ohms terminator on my NES (to make it darker), while my other consoles have RGB output. I save myself the time to readjust the contrast by using that method.

It may be a dumb question, but are PVM or JVC professional monitors more exposed to input lag (since I guess the picture gets a bit more processing than classic TV sets).

Same question if it's high resolution pro monitor.
Thanks in advance.

>>1314794
>since I guess the picture gets a bit more processing than classic TV sets
But this part is wrong.

Pro monitors aren't superior because of an overly-sophisticated processing stage, they are superior because of the tubes they use.

>>1314806
Oh, so that confirms that there's no "extra" input lag on the pro monitor?

>>1314806

Does that mean CRT monitors capable of 1440p have the best tubes?

may I posit that the next CRT thread be titled "The fraternal CRT thread"?

>>1309538
actually, CRT flicker is the result of each frame being displayed for a very short time before decaying. OLED has perfect response time which is better than CRT; each frame is displayed for a bit longer to avoid flicker but the frames never blur into each other.

>>1314884
I can't wait for OLED to die prematurely like SED and FED.

I hope SAMOLED in phones isn't a good indicator of OLED quality, because those have blur and afterimaging out the ass, as well as being 58hz or 59.5hz.

>>1314841
Second that
Also I been thinking about a pokemon general since /vp/ is hostil on everything not compatible between newer generations.

>>1314835
Nothing extra.

>>1314836
No, resolution doesn't imply anything else.

>>1314841
veto

>>1314889
Why? It still won't replace CRT's functionality but it's at least an excellent step forward from the likes of LCD for many purposes.

I got a pick today, the one for $10 I had mentioned earlier in the thread, and yes, the select button appears to have broken off, and the button itself doesn't work either. Suggestions?
I've got to say, the quality on this thing is amazing, especially for s-video

>>1315218
*PVM
Sorry, I posted that from my phone and it's autocorrect is horrendous to me at times.

>>1315218
Just use common sense. Look inside the space and see what kind of button it was. You might be able to use something conductive for some button types, a paperclip if it needs something thin, a pencil's flat eraser tip for something flatter, etc.

>>1315351
Sorry, I was unclear only wording. the switch (button) soldered to the board is not functioning, and to get to it, it looks like I would need to remove the tube (but I have to re-read the service manual to be sure)

>>1315708
*nonfunctioning as in, tippy press it and nothing happens

>>1315710
*you press it
there's the autocorrect

>>1315708
>the switch (button) soldered to the board is not functioning
On my big consumer 24" Trinitron, i was able to remove the circuit board that contained the front switches. (tact switches were busted, i replaced them)
But i had the remove the big chassis first. So if you're going to unplug some internal cables, then you better remember where they go. (better take a photo)

>I would need to remove the tube
I wouldn't do that.

>>1296461
FUN FACT: You have Steve Carells uncle to thank for the CRT.

>>1315717
Yeah, 'd rather not have to, but as I mentioned, I will have to reread the service manual to see if there is a better way to remove just that board

This guy has some really nice sets for pre-NES consoles:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf2kcQWxY_g

Any tips for calibrating a SONY PVM?

I am using a cross hatch pattern via a Dreamcast game (using http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/240p_test_suite).).

I get the actual idea of making sure the picture looks even and such, but I can't seem to get my screen to look just right.

Picture is very related. I wish I could get my screen to look like that.

>>1316408
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoBqm4ThJxw

>>1313808
yeah that'd be cool. I have a nice CRT already but it doesn't do 480p like I want it to, or my cables for the wii/ps2 are flakey. I am interested in the idea of getting a pvm, I just don't have the time to look, but at least my phone filters through craigs list.

>>1316634
Ohgosh. I'd forgotten to get pics before I disassembled it to repair that switch on front. As far as the repairs go, I'm just oging to find a tactile switch like what was on there, but with a longer shank(I'm unsure of the term for the part you press) so that it fits outside the case, as I'm not a fan of devising ways to hold that plastic back in place, etc.

I apologize for the quality on this image, it looks 100% better in person.

>>1317496
*going

>>1317496
Anon >>1315717 here.
I actually had the problem that the closed resistance of my tact switches were too high (300ohms).
So i salvaged some front boards of some old computer CD drive for the tact switches.
That was not a perfect fit (i need to push buttons deeper), but that is better than nothing.

>Pic very related, old broken sony switch and junk board

>>1317540
*CD drives

>>1315082
>Why?
It was sarcasm. Ever since I learned about FED and SED I've been a bit more upset than usual when it comes to monitors and televisions.

Hi guys. I'm going to buy kv-21ft1b tomorow. has anyone have any experience with this model? It's gonna be my first Sony tv so im kinda excited.

>>1317659

Never used one, too modern for what I ever used, all my TVs are from before 1995

>>1317651
Never did read much about FED, but SED had lag for retro vidya too. Any display technology with discrete pixel addressing (meaning everything digital after CRT) will always have processing latency when upscaling video.

I know it have already been posted here, but here's my version of the "Nvidia - the way it's meant to be played" parody.

>>1318008
FED and SED will almost certainly have sample-and-hold blur if they're ever released, because casuals don't understand that the flicker is the reason CRTs have such excellent motion quality.

>>1318072
>if they're ever released
they won't be

So I have this old CRT (CEP 3022PS - Sanyo) but it the inside is hell dirty, the tube has some problems like bad landing on corner, dark picture and there's just composite input (mono sound).

Is it worth trying to clean/repair it?
(CEM 3022P should return more result on google, the CEP version supports both PAL+SECAM)

Looking at buying some computer speakers for my Mono PVM. Should I get standard speakers and use a RCA splitter for audio, or would that degrade the quality? Also I'm curious as to what you guys use for stands.

>>1318106
If i were you i would, but just for fun and for practice... mostly fun.

>>1318151
Curious about that. I have 5 sony trinitron tv's only 2 with stereo sound and 1 philips also with stereo.
Drive me nuts playing with mono especially the dudrio tower on Pokémon Stadium (No pokémon cry)

For all those who wonder how to discharge your CRT before cleaning the inside and/or changing the capacitors, here it is:
http://www.stickycarpet.com/pinx/md.html

>see this
>think of /vr/

>>1318706
Carmack <3

>>1318759
Idiot connecting a nes via composite to a frame meister <3

>>1318151
>>1318269
Logitech LS21 speakers are the computer speakers /g/ usually recommends. Good quality, not expensive (between $20-$30 depending on sale), and you can get them online or in most office/electronic supplies stores.
http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-LS21-Stereo-Speaker-System/dp/B0015C30J0/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1388985789&sr=1-1&keywords=logitech+ls21

Then get this all-female RCA to 3.5 mil adapter from Cyberguys on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009JFF7A/ref=oh_details_o07_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Plug the left/right audio plugs into the appropriate spots on the adapter, and in the 3.5 mil jack you can plug in computer speakers like the LS21 or headphones. My HD-crt has busted speakers, so this is the best workaround I could come up with. Hope it works well for you guys.

>>1318920
>Logitech LS21 speakers are the computer speakers /g/ usually recommends.
They're some of the cheapest name brand (= estimation of quality) 2.1s you can find and not very pretty, so it's no wonder they did. I was a /g/entleman from the early days up until everything turned into SMARTPHONEWARZ a few years ago.

I'll save everyone a ton of details since this is /vr/, but of the current commonly available 2.1 PC speaker sets under $40:

Logitech Z313 >>>>> Creative A250 > Logitech LS21

>>1318706
Looks like either the old composite monitor for the Apple IIc or the RGB monitor for the //gs. Can't say for sure because I can't see it from the side.

>>1318151
>Also I'm curious as to what you guys use for stands.
For my large TVs, I use those big stands specially designed for these big tube TVs. I even have the Toshiba-brand stand that matches one of my 32" Toshiba TVs and fits along the bottom perfectly.

>>1318151

I use my Ikea table.

10 bucks on craigslist right now.
S-Video and component. Should I get it?
Any experience with this TV?

>>1326407

>>1326413
Philips lacks of a good service menu (extensive).

>>1326476
bummer. how's the picture quality? I know its not going to be trinitron quality but how does it hold up?

>>1326483
It's ok I guess.
I would wait for a trinitron to appear.
Trinitron>JVC>Sharp><Philips>Others. IMO

>>1295329
I'm deciding on whether or not to get an RGB cable for my SNES or for my Genesis.

Will Master System games played through a Power Base Converter output RGB?

>>1317659
Yay its working nicely. Quality over component → Computer is better then s-video on my older tv (which was torn apart by homeless people yesterday)
>>1326519
Mitsubishi is not near top?

If i use a RGB/component converter, will it be the same quality as RGB?

>>1326791

According to /vr/, yes.

>>1326768
>component
I meant composite
sage myself

Does anyone know where I can get some quality s video cables that would work on n64/snes/ps2 that don't have crap cable quality? I'm trying to find some but all the ones I find have the composite video along with the s video and it keeps ruining my picture. Bad cables and I'm too lazy to strip the wires and fix it.

>>1326813

>snes

Why don't you use RGB with it? This console output it natively!

>>1326407
>Should I get it?
As an owner of a small Philips from this time, I would. It's true that you only get rudimentary controls, but I was fortunate enough to get one with a fairly good image and geometry out of the box, easily fixed through the OSD.

>>1326813
There are some cheap no-name ones around, but the brand-name ones known to be good are Nintendo, Monster, and Hori.

>>1326864
Could be in America, I guess.

>>1326813
I always go with Official cables myself. I used to own the Euro SCART PS2 cable too but I regrettably parted with it when I sold my debug PlayStation 2. Hope one pops up again on eBay eventually.

From left to right:

PlayStation
Dreamcast
Saturn - bundled with model 1
GameCube
Saturn - bundled with model 2

GameCube cable is neat in that it works with NTSC SNES without modification, in addition to RGB modded N64 and even NES if the mod is made to accommodate it. The PlayStation cable can be used on a PlayStation, PlayStation 2 and PlayStation 3.

I'd keep an eye on eBay to grab S-Video cables for Nintendo consoles and the PlayStation 2. As mentioned though you should try component (for PlayStation 2) at least if it is available to you and RGB for the other two if available to you, I assume they are not though.

>>1326813
>>1326945
I forgot to mention the official Sony cables for PS/PS2/PS3 as well. They're cheap on Newegg right now.

>>1326864
'Murrican snes I thought didn't? Regardless I need the same cable for the N64 and it doesn't support that without opening it up and fiddling. Which I'm not going to do with the N64 I have right now.

>>1326945
>>1327024
>>1327285
Thanks guys.

>>1327024
>Official Sony PlayStation SCART cable
Jesus those things are so hard to find, and the ones I've seen pop up on eBay are going for stupid money. I've wasted so much time and money buying PS SCART cables recently only to find they are all cheap unshielded garbage, and many not even wired correctly.

I bought a Dreamcast RGB brand new in box for £5 in 2008, should have done the same back then for my other consoles :(

>>1327669
It really is worth it. Both the PS1 and PS2 cables are ridiculously well made and very thick.

Regrettably if you check eBay you'll see two PS1 and two PS2 official RGB cables sold on eBay in December.

I bought mine from Germany not so long ago.

Has proper voltage pullup for channel switching on a consumer level TV too.

>>1326519
>>1326407
You guys, Sony are not the be all and end all of CRTs.

Philips made some decent stuff, but I suspect this is too new to fall into that category - they were going downhill by then. Maybe it's fine, but I really can't say. Looks like a cheaper model anyway.

>>1327671
I'm half thinking about trying to make my own with some Cat. 5 STP and parts from the many cables I do have. Unfortunately the proprietary AV Multi connectors on the cheap cables are usually hard to disassemble without breaking, and the Sony composite/RF cables don't have all the pins on the connectors.

>>1327696
I made one ages ago to use in conjunction with my PVM breakout cable.

Worked very well. Used an official PS2 light gun add on module.

>>1327703
You destroyed a Sony AV breakout to build a cable that's readily available?

:(

>>1327707
In case you misread, RGB SCART cables aren't readily available.

AV breakout cables are.

>>1327709
maybe on ebay, but have you guys looked at importing from japan through their auctions and retailers?

>>1327739
Japan RGB SCART cables have a different pin-out.

I did actually send a contact a fair sum of money to win me a Japanese one that I was going to swap the connections inside on. In the end he took his kid to swimming class and missed it though. Glad I waited really.

>>1326519
You know, Trinitron is just the branding Sony uses for the its screens using aperture grilles. The patent expired on this tech, and several other manufacturers have their own line of screens with it.

So to say Trinitron > JVC is kind of stupid. One is a model line, the other is a company.

Anyone knows if there were 12'' Trinitrons?

>>1327758
There are 13"s I have a couple.

>>1327758
Yes, there are. But remember some of the screen is covered by the bezel. So the visible area is a bit less.

I am a big, big fan of Sony's PVM-1271Q and the others in the same line. It has a smoked glass panel over the screen, and it just makes the blacks look magnificent. Very, very old school looking and warm.

>>1327786
>>1327758
>>1327907
CRTs were measured by viewable screen size in North America whereas elsewhere it was generally the entire screen that was measured.

So for example, the 13" sets sold in the US (e.g. PVM-134x) were sold as 14" sets elsewhere (PVM-144x). I'm not sure if this policy changed at some stage.

That PVM-1271Q looks mint, and still has bits of polystyrene hanging off it - is this like NOS or something? The control cover usually goes missing on these too.

>>1327987
It's just a photo I found on an older ebay auction, but yeah it looks NOS. A very nice find.

My own 1271 is missing the cover, like all but one of them I've seen. Strangely, there is also one on ebay now with the cover. Around $70 with the shipping, and well worth it.

>>1327754
Aperture grilles in other than Sony trinitron's are shit tier

>>1328301

You've never seen a Diamondtron.

>>1328354
You've never feel a Dildotron

>>1328301
Well clearly you know what you're talking about.

/vr/ is under the amazingly false impression that shitty crt monitors produce anything but shit quality picture.

>>1306270
This thread has outlived another ill-conceived /crt/ general (this time created before this thread had hit the bump limit).

This is now the official interim /crt/ general thread once again.

>>1329161

Well that's what happen when people don't check the catalog and create another CRT thread while many people already use another one.

So guys what would you say it's the best sort of TV I could get to play retro games but also play Wii games on 480p in widescreen?

A Widescreen CRT maybe?

>>1329502
Link looks stoned. Did he smoke to much Deku leaves?

While looking through various Trinitron models, I've noticed that most of them have RGB input "and" output. The 8" models, however, seem to only have one set of RGB BNC. Anyone know from experience whether these are for input or output?

>>1329502
I have widescreen crt and wii looks great via RGB scart, and old games too.

Though mine doesn't do 480p but I guess its not possible from scart?

>>1329634
SCART is almost never used to carry 480p. It would work via the RGB pins but it's not standard.

Widescreen SD sets are very rare in the US because we never had a standard for them.

>>1329502
It's difficult to find sets with native 480i and 480p (true 15/31 multiscan). Look for sets which are explicitly branded "EDTV" or "progressive-scan" rather than "HDTV" or "digital". When digital came about, it was easier to engineer a TV that did 480p/1080i only (very similar scan rates) and to upscale everything else.

That said, the HDTV Trinitrons are godly 480p monitors. Dreamcast, Xbox, and Wii look incredible on them. They upscale 480i/240p, but do so _very_ well - I've never noticed any problems with using an SNES or PlayStation on mine. Fast, clean picture - but no visible scanlines (upscales to 1080i).

>>1329650
>upscales to 1080i
Actually I may be mistaken here - on second thought, I'm pretty sure they upscale to 480p or 960i (depending on the settings) so it's an integer scaling.

>>1329650
Hm thanks for the suggestion anon, I'll look for those.

>>1329650
>Widescreen SD sets are very rare in the US because we never had a standard for them.
In Europe we just use anamorphic digital SDTV - MPEG2 with flags in the stream to say if it's 4:3 or 16:9, just like with DVDs. Nothing special. All of this could be done with any digital SDTV standard in the US.

The only advantage we have is that a 4:3/16:9 switching signal could be passed to an analogue TV via SCART. However an awful lot of people ignore this and just watched 4:3 programming in fat-head-vision - or even worse - never configured their receiver for 16:9 in the first place and watched *everything* in broken aspect ratios, even things that were broadcast in widescreen.

>>1308095
I found a beautiful 24" CRT computer monitor for free not too long ago, but only has VGA and BNC connectors much like these. I've been looking around to see what I can do to get things connected to this monitor and only found a Composite or Component > VGA adapter. Does anybody else have experience with BNC or if it's viable to interchange Component > BNC?

>>1329901
I assume you have a FW900. It doesn't accept 15khz, so I wouldn't call it good for retro gaming.

>>1329901
If you need to, you can get RCA to BNC adaptors, but I'm not sure how badly they can affect picture quality.

>>1329901
It's perfect for line doubled or tripled 15kHz signals. Either emulator or hardware line doubler, which theoretically shouldn't add significant latency but I don't trust hardware designers not to fuck it up somehow so get hard measurements before buying anything.

>>1329904
>>1329907

i got some of those connectors, but it states it can't process the signal whenever anything's connected to it. I imagine video cards back in the day used to have outputs and sync connections. I remember reading somewhere that sync pins on VGA and old RGB aren't interchangeable with RCA without an upscaler?

Pic Related, Composite > VGA adapter in use.

>>1329901
>24" CRT computer monitor
Fuck, I never saw bigger monitor than 20"
How many inches had the biggest crt monitor ever?

>>1329927
Might be 24" including the bezel.

>The NEC XM37 doesn't support interlaced video

I wish somebody told me earlier. What can I do about this?

>>1329904
It's good for emulation

Speaking of CRTs, I had a curiosity. While most likely unprofitable, would it be possible to create a CRT with multiple display options, ranging from the standard 480i to 1080 and above? I do know some TVs could do up to 1600p, but was the display changable?

I wanna use the same TV for my Duck Hunt as well as my GTAV, which has near-unreadable text.

So I can get a PVM 2730QM but RGB on screen is really off. Do you know if it's easy to fix? If yes any tutorial/explanation please?
Pic very related

>>1330193
Looks like convergence is seriously out. This is something that can be adjusted, but there's the chance there's something else wrong with it.

>>1316596
I've seen this, and thank you, but I was looking for more specific tips in general.

>>1330130
A true 15/31khz multisync monitor will handle anything from 240p/480i, up to 720p and 1080i.

>>1330130

CRT monitors already do that, you can just line double 15khz 240p/480i and it will be fine.

>>1329965

Where did you hear that?

It should at the very least support the signal and de-interlace it for viewing.

These big monitors all have composite and s-video connectors on the back.

I had a XC3717 and It had no problems showing interlaced.

>>1330193

Man, I already sent an e-mail to the seller, sorry (it was on "leboncoin" right?)

>>1330981
>It should at the very least support the signal and de-interlace it for viewing.
CRT monitors generally do not de-interlace. It's all down to the phosphor decay rate that determines how well it presents interlaced video. A traditional CRT SDTV has rather slow phosphors making interlaced 50i/60i video acceptable, but generally computer monitors have faster phosphors which is why 60p shows more noticeable flicker (unbearable by many).

Although PC monitors traditionally supported interlaced video (1024x768 @ 87 Hz interlaced was commonly supported on older monitors which couldn't handle the bandwidth for XGA @ 60p), they looked fucking awful.

I don't know if this NEC monitor was designed more as a computer display or general video monitor, or something inbetween the two.

>>1330575
1080i is around 33KHz, and 720p is around 45KHz. A 15/31KHz monitor will not sync either of them.

>>1330130
NEC XM monitors have an absurd sync range of somewhere around 15-75KHz, so they can sync anything from 240 to 1200 lines at 60hz.

>>1329909
If you're trying to plug a component TV signal into an RGB PC monitor:
1. It's in the wrong color space; you need a YUV->RGB decoder
2. It's probably FAR below the monitor's hsync range - almost no PC monitor supports 15KHz signals

>>1329502
Most widescreen CRTs are pretty terrible, there was only one production run of them and the kinks weren't worked out yet.

They're only good for playing Wii games (and those few 6th generation games that support widescreen).

For 3D rendered Wii games you should use Dolphin for the best experience.

Super Mario Galaxy looks better on a plasma then it ever would on a CRT (no CRT glow ruining the starscape skybox with light pollution). 1080p vs 480i is just insult to injury.

>>1331604
>Super Mario Galaxy looks better on a plasma then it ever would on a CRT (no CRT glow ruining the starscape skybox with light pollution). 1080p vs 480i is just insult to injury.
Or, you know, just run it on an HD CRT if you want it to be HD.

>>1331612
LCD > CRT for SMG, at least LCD has evenly shitty contrast instead of big ugly and distracting blotches moving about.

>>1331604
>Most widescreen CRTs are pretty terrible, there was only one production run of them and the kinks weren't worked out yet.
>one production run

Are you high? There were countless widescreen CRTs produced from the late '80s onwards. The amount that will do 480p will be smaller, but there were still many.

Wide CRTs were the de facto standard (for >27" sets) in some markets by the early 2000s, especially where digital widescreen TV broadcasting and anamorphic DVDs were prevalent.

>>1329965
The base model xm37 doesn't support 480i. It upscales 15khz signals when going through s-video and composite. RGB doesn't work at all at 480i.

>>1331604

Son the FW-9000 is better than any plasma display. It can do 1200p with ease as well.

>>1331616
Are you using a CRT projector or something? I don't understand what artifacts you're talking about.

So, /crt/, I'm at my aunt's today and I go to the back porch to find that they have a Wega (that she tells me they rarely use) setup, enduring the shit South Florida weather. Should I attempt rescue?
Sorry for the unforgivable picture. I'm posting from my 3DS which has a camera that would make /p/ commit collective suicide.

>>1332050
>rescue
Is it broken or are you just trying to take it?

BTW, assuming that's a 35/36", I have a third-party TV stand with a custom-fit optional/removable front that was designed to fit that front foot perfectly (so the TV could sit more flush with the stand instead of sitting back by an inch). It's currently accommodating a Toshiba.

Are CRTs actually good? I have a 12 inch and a 36-40 inch one collecting dust.

>>1332147

I depend of the model. If it's an RF-only shit box made in China, not really.

>>1332152
looked at the model # and it's actually only 25 inches. Sharp 25R-S100. Never thought that it very good, would it be better to use actual consoles on or should I continue to stick to emulators?

Toshiba 27" Flat Screen CRT TV (Model 27AF45C)

Any good? This is my old CRT from before I got an HDTV

Pic related is the TV, but it's not my TV, just from google

>>1332164

What kind of input does it have?
Alway use actual consoles or emulators on consoles.

>>1332173
Should be, but it might have a digital comb filter when you use composite. Double-check that.

I have an AF44 and I like it a lot.

>>1332189
Is composite a notable difference with CRT? I've been using classic red/white/yellow

>>1332208
R/W/Y is composite

>>1332215
Component, rather

>>1332215

You're mistaking component with composite anon

>>1332208
>>1332216
Yes, even for SD sources, component is slightly better than S-video.

>>1332216
>>1332220
Red is audio right.
White is audio left.
Yellow is composite.

Component (YPbPr) uses the same connectors but it's bit different:
Green is luma (brightness).
Red is red to luma difference (R-Y).
Blue is blue to luma difference (B-Y).

Is there a difference in quality between the Yellow/White/Red component cords and the Green/Blue/Red?
What's the difference in terms of end product?

If I'm correct, the Yellow one is video and White is audio and Red is... stereo audio?
And from what I'm reading the Green is brightness and syncing, while Blue is some blue color and Red is some red color and the way they combine makes up for green. Where's the audio portion?

>>1332250
Ok there is not such thing a s yellow/white/red component
Yellow/White/Red = Composite (Two audio channels (White = Mono, Red = Stereo) and ONE for video (Yellow).
Svideo = The video split in 2
Green/Blue/Red = Component (video signal split in 3)

>>1332250
Ah, so yellow is indeed composite as >>1332249
stated. Which clears up that.
Component is higher quality then, correct?
Everyone calling the RCA cables component just confused my simple mind.

>>1332250

Yellow is video, yes, White is Left Audio channel and Red is Right audio channel (it's how you remember, Red is Right)

For the quality, there's a huge improvement, the yellow cable carry 3 informations at once in a single wire while component carry the same info on 3 different cables.

>>1332249

Oops, I didn't understand, I never mention the audio cables at the same time as the video ones, as their signals are totally different.

>>1332261
>>1332271
So where's the audio portion for component? Thanks for all the info guys.

>>1332208
>>1332215
>2
>>1332216
>>1332216
>>1332220
>>1332227
>>1332215
>>1332216
>>1332220
>>1332227
>>1332249
>>1332249
>>1332260
>>1332261
>>1332271
Some need to write a CRT Essentials Book so we don't have to go over the same over and over again and again.

>>1332138
Amazingly, it's still working, so I'm just trying to take it. They don't use it, it's sitting outside and I want to give it a proper home, i.e. mine.

>>1332282

There's no audio in component. Only video

Where do you guys get your CRTs from? I'm looking for one with s-video and have been keeping an eye on Craigslist for a week but so far nothing. I'm almost thinking of just buying some RCA only tv until I find what I'm looking for.

Does anyone know what connections a pvm-14N5A has?

>>1332494
I get mine from my friends mothers or pretty much anyone since they move to lcd.
Whenever you see someone arriving at his home ask what are they gonna do with their old tv. Tell them that you work in a workshop/school that employe/train kids with cerebral palsy to work with electronics

>>1332590
>14N5A
Composite and S-Video

>>1332284
Well, these /crt/ threads exist for all kinds of discussion, both general and specific. Since there are people who aren't as familiar visiting all the time, it's natural that they'll ask their questions here.

Maybe future OPs could point to URLs about basic video concepts and common knowledge gathered so far in these threads. Lots of "eternal" general threads do this.

(I personally don't like infopics as a teaching medium, but since we are discussing visual media, something containing a collection of excellent snapshots might actually be useful.)

>>1332291
I'd give it a shot if you can handle carrying it away. Sonys are especially heavy.

>>1332494
'90s~2007: bought them new in stores and brought them home from work when no longer needed

2008~2010: Craigslist

I've been all set since then, though I was tempted to pick up a couple cheap BVMs on CL last year.

>>1332608
>Tell them that you work in a workshop/school that employe/train kids with cerebral palsy to work with electronics
What kind of manipulative sociopath are you? What's wrong with the truth?! And you're selling this fairy tale to your friends' mothers?

If somebody wanted to connect a 240p source to a 31khz arcade monitor but didn't want to alter the picture in any way, would this work:

240p game -> hardware line doubler to 480p -> SLG3000 putting the scanlines back in

But is there even such a thing as a basic line doubler?

>>1332982
Upscaler

http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/

>mfw i just scored a PVM-1454QM for 50 bucks

>>1334772
Enjoy!

It looks like my PVM-8044q can accept PAL signals.
Which makes a lot of my Commodore 64 problems a whole lot easier, seeing as now I can just get a PAL C64 and play all the glorious games.
Right?

>>1334869
right?

>>1334869
>>1334917
This sounds like a C64 question, not a /crt/ question.

>>1334869
yup

>>1331385
It's definitely possible this one could be deinterlacing. When you get into presentation monitors they have all kinds of crazy circuitry inside.

Some of them are fixed frequency, or only sync down to 31khz.

I know some of them did in fact accept 240p signals, and then internally line doubled them for display in 480p.

>>1332713
>What kind of manipulative sociopath are you? What's wrong with the truth?! And you're selling this fairy tale to your friends' mothers?
Welcome to 4chan

Well I've come to a crossroads. Either I find a separate TV for 15khz games or I get an upscaler.

Which one would you guys prefer for 240p/480i games?

36" NEC XM37 (31khz) with XRGB-3 to upscan 15khz RGB signals

36" 480i Sony wega trinitron with a RGB->component converter

$85 for a 14L5, shipped;


Good or bad deal?

You guys are my heroes, I thought I was anal enough dragging around my 200lb Trinitron (KV-34XBR910) every time I move.

Any tips on finding a PVM over the next few years? hope for kajiji or is ebay the best bet?

Also I feel like my Famiclone looks like shit on my Trinitron, am I wrong? It feels like everythings a little muddled, that the pixels blend in together it seems. Is there sharpness/etc. dial I should be turning up/down? There are a lot of 'clearview' and other enhancements the TV is implimenting, I'm guessing I should turn those off too? (or could it be a shitty famiclone?)

For a long time, since I can't find a Trinitron of any sort. I've been using my old Commodore 64 monitor as a CRT for games. I have to say, it actually looks GREAT - the image is clear, the black levels are deep, the color clarity is excellent.

Has anybody else used a Commodore 64 monitor for vidya (other than C64 of course) before?

>>1337408
Commodore monitors are great for old vidya. Some even have s-video or rgb.

>>1337408
Wait, they do? I never thought to check the back of my monitor... mine looks exactly like the model in pic related, but I can't tell exactly because I'm currently out of state.

>>1337408

I'm using my Commodore Amiga monitor for this purpose too. (Well, I was, now I have a dedicated Trinitron TV and this monitor is only used for my Amiga computer now)

>>1337389
I have two SFP XBRs myself, so I know how great they are for video and current-gen games, but you really shouldn't be using them for retro vidya. I use my SDTVs for that. You will get bad results no matter what, because HDTVs aren't ideal for SD games. (Non-interactive SD video like DVD and regular TV looks amazing, but any interaction will suffer from too much lag and non-film content like 2D graphics will look bad due to image processing that games were never supposed to go through.)

tk;dr - A small PVM would be a great complement for your 910, to handle all your retro consoles.

I don't know much about famiclones, sorry.

>>1337469
Thanks buddy sounds like a plan~

>>1337381
Bump

>>1337791

What's your country? If you're in the US, it have RGB and Component, so it's totally worth it.

>>1337798
Yeah, US.

Guys, will one of these flatscreen CRTs provide a similar experience to older CRTs, or should I just keep looking?

>>1337874
If its an SDTV, it will give you the proper display. I don't use an old CRT, mine is from the mid 2000s.

>>1337874

>WEGA

Nope, it's cool for LDs and watching TV, but not old vidya.
Keep searching anon, you wont regret it!

>>1337880

How about these? Sorry about the shit pics, it's from local sellers. I'm waiting to know if they have S-VIDEO

>>1337880

>>1337880
What is wrong with WEGAs when it comes to old vidya?

>>1337891
You made a lot of effort to not get caught there.

>>1337925

Like I said, the pictures aren't mine.

>>1337932
Sorry, just dropped by without reading the thread.

>>1337918

Aren't WEGAs HD CRTs? Anything HD isn't good for old vidyas.

>>1337946
Oh, they can DO HD (720p or 1080i), but they're still analog, so if they read an old signal they're not gonna upscale it. There are different modes you can set on the Trinitron WEGAs IIRC. The thing that fucks up old vidya on HD sets is that the analog-to-digital converters built into them are complete ass.

>>1295329

It took me awhile to think about this, but does anyone else use their /vr/ sets for 4:3 anime/cartoons? I've been playing emulated games on my wii and I didn't even think about using wiimc.

With component most look fantastic, and actually fill the whole screen especially if it's 640x480. A shame the wii is far too weak for a really good encode/along with fancy softsubs. Not to mention it won't even play the 960x720/1280x960/1440x1080 content.

I would like other opinions on this, especially pictures of some in action. I am debating on splurging on the Dragon Box in particular and my set is perfect (I would use my blu-ray player connected via component)

If I ramble any further I might have to this to /a/ or /m/.

>>1337949
>Oh, they can DO HD (720p or 1080i), but they're still analog, so if they read an old signal they're not gonna upscale it.
This is incorrect. They are digital TVs, with digital framebuffers and video scaling.

Sony's HD Trinitrons have two scan modes: 31KHz and 33KHz. They can natively display 480p and 1080i (and 960i and 540p but who cares). 720p is upscaled to 1080i. 480i is line-doubled to 480p.

They have a very good deinterlacer/upscaler though, so I've never had a problem playing e.g. PS1 games on mine. No scanlines, though.

>>1337961

I use my set to watch old /m/ animes and films (on LD for example). Also, when yalking about old stuff, avoid /a/ as much as possible, /m/ is more willing to talk about old stuff even if it's not entirely /m/-related.

>>1337975
I just wish I would have got a 4:3 HD set. Mainly because I can plug my PC directly to the TV without having to use a streaming device. Also to actually watch blu ray releases of older content. Otherwise I'm just going to start downloading my 480p stuff.

Laser disc, man. I can't find anything locally and haven't in years. That would also be something neat to have.

>>1337874
>>1337880
WEGA SDTVs are just fine for retro.

>>1337961
I just watch movies/anime on a 17inch CRT monitor displaying 720x480 @72hz for no uneven 3:2 pulldown artifacts and no upscaling.

I have all 7 Dragon Box DBZ DVD sets, they look god damn good on this screen.

>>1337964
Rubbish, not ALL wega's are like that. I have an SDTV wega that is amazing for retro and does proper 240p. It does not do 480p or higher. In fact it's one of the best TV's you can possibly get for retro gaming.

I have a question,
Would it be possible to connect my PC to my 15khz CRT tv using some kind of adapter like this one? The tv only supports composite and RGB through SCART.

Well, today in my quest for retro-goodness I was told by someone close to me that I should stop looking for old TVs and controllers and shit.

I only want to recapture those beautiful moments of my childhood where I played NES at my grandfather's house. I played the FUCK out of Contra, TMNT2 and Super Mario Bros 3, among countless others. Every time we visited when I was a kid was fantastic. I have nothing but good memories of the place.

Is it so wrong to search for that feeling, /vr/? My grandfather is dead and the house was sold, I'll never have that again.

>>1338681
Do you enjoy playing games? Does it hurt anyone?

I think you'll find a lot of people on this board preserving and prolonging favorite memories by playing retro. What's wrong with that?

So I picked up one of these babies the other day and it runs beautifully, but it's sole problem seems to be that closer to the edges on all sides of the screen, the picture becomes somewhat blurred. I was looking for a potential fix to this problem. No idea what's causing it, but I'd love to try and fix it.

>>1337946
Not all WEGAs are HD. Here's a model list.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FD_Trinitron

All models from KD-36FS130 downwards are SD Displays, and all models above it are HD displays.

This list only applies to the FD Trinitron/WEGA, which was Sony's flat-screen Trinitron line.

>>1339013
Nice! What's the model number?

>>1339085
It's a Trinitron KV-27T532 I believe. I've attempted playing with the service menu, but I have yet to find a setting that has fixed it.

>>1338438
This mainly depends on your graphics card and the drivers, also any cable may not work. You must know how the sync is wired in the cable and what the card can do.

>>1338681
>my childhood where I played NES at my grandfather's house

I hear a lot of stories like this around here and don't understand - why or how did your grandparents have video games?

Even assuming you're 18, it's likely your grandparents are at least in their 60s. My dad's in his 60s and he don't know shit about video games. He claims he only had sticks to play with as a kid.

>>1339979

Some people have Grand Parents that just love technologies, some have ones that prefer staying home doing nothing. There were old people in the 80's that tried to get into computing, so why not some others that had consoles?

>>1339979
Not him, but I'm 27. My father is a Dragon Warrior/Quest fan, my mother is a Zelda fan, and my grandmother who was almost 80 when she died loved to play Dr. Mario on the NES.

>mfw when I played Dr. Mario multiplayer with my grandmother and she kicked my ass nearly every time.

>>1339979
Not him, but I'm 20 and my father is 66. Some of my best childhood memories are playing SNES with my dad late into the night, and am happy to say that we still do from time to time.

>spending 3 days together trying to figure out how to beat King Bob-omb in SM64
Good times. Still have our original save file too.

>>1339979

If you are a kid who spends large amounts of time at a grand parents house it's natural to want to have a game system there.

In the 90s, most video gamers had more than one system. You're not going to leave your shiny new SNES or Genesis at Granny's house, so you take the NES along and leave it there.
Little brothers, cousins, and nephews also benefit, and that's where you get a generation of kids who played NES games outside of their own homes.

>>1339013
How blurry are we talking about? It is normal for the focus on a CRT to be weaker near the edge of the screen.

>>1338681

Tell that someone close to you that they should back the fuck off and let you make your own decisions.

>>1337408
Yes, they are super excellent. If the whole composite video, dot-crawl thing is what you're after you won't find much better in that size. My favorite display for NES games.

>>1339979
I have a female cousin in her 50s who is an NES Zelda fan.

Why wouldnt something like this be good for retro vidya?

It's a Panasonic commercial 480p Plasma Display.

It shouldnt have the lag that HDTV's do.

Quick question about my CRT, which only has two composite/S-video inputs and a BNC RGB/S input:

Will an older VCR, like the kind that records to an S-VHS, introduce any noticeable input lag if I use it to make a coaxial signal into a composite RCA signal?

Hey guys, I found a dude selling a Sony Wega (model KV-25FS120), is it any good for connecting my PC via S-VIDEO and gaming on it?

>>1339979

My grandfather gave me the NES as a gift and a few months later I moved to Brazil. I would vacation at my grandpa's house and play then. No one else used the NES in my absence.

>>1340251

Indeed I did, I just figured I'd ask around if I had done anything worth being a douchebag about.

There are shittier things to spend your money on

>>1340573
I have a KV-27FS120 and it is great. You could also hook up your pc via Y,Pb,Pr.

>>1340649

Nice. Just trying to be careful with my money, 'cause I'm tired of looking for a god damn old TV when everyone's selling LCDs.

>>1340420
because it's digital

>>1340468
It shouldn't, unless it does any digital image processing or you're viewing the image in tape monitor instead of source input mode while recording.

Also, output to S-video, not composite.

>>1340787
My only option is composite if I want to connect to the four-way RCA switch I have set up. The other is occupied by a DVD recorder that is connected to an output by the monitor itself. (i.e. if I play something on any line, it will record whatever is sent to the screen)

>>1340803
I'm guessing you have two inputs, each composed of 1x S-video, 1x composite, and 1x stereo audio. Is that right?

In that case, or in the case of one input having S-video and the other input only composite, I'd have an S-video input switch on one and a composite input switch on the other to accommodate multiple devices. If that disrupts your monitor output, I guess I'd stick to whatever it can handle.

How do people have trouble finding decent CRTs to play games on?

>my craigslist has at least fifty 34"+ trinitrons up at a time
>my local goodwill and salvation army have 5-10 trinitrons per store.

Where do you live where nobody is getting rid of old TVs?

>>1340859
My Goodwill's have never really had CRTs, and my local thrift store stopped accepting them months ago. Salvation Army still has them though. Most of them are old or cheapy models sadly; Still kicking myself over not picking up a SFP XBR set last April though.

As for craigslist, not many people seem to use it in my area; Not for CRTs at the very least. Didn't stop me from getting a 32'' monster off of it for free.

>>1340859

Outside the US. In here, there's no craiglist or salvation army/goodwill.

>>1337408
>>1340258
I should bust out my 1080 and 1084S Amiga monitors and try my systems with those. The 1084S I have actually has a covered spot where a SCART connector is supposed to go. Might be able to just solder on a connector and get it working.

>>1340859
I live in Fargo, North Dakota, and for some reason we don't even have a Goodwill here, even though Grand Forks and Jamestown have them. Not all of us Amerifags live in a large California or New York city where you have every store imaginable within a 5 mile radius.

That said, Fargo's craigslist has about 5 Trinitrons listed on it right now.

>>1340859
Back in 2007, The australian government gave everyone $900, so they all went out and bought brand new Plasmas and LCD TV's and threw out their CRT's.

I wasn't that into retro gaming back then besides PS1, N64 and i already had a cheap CRT so i didnt really think to go and pick up the thousands of CRT's that littered the streets.

These days, the only CRT's that are around are either high end 34" HD CRT's or the shitty chinese ones with only composite.

>>1340249
Not very blurry just slightly out of focus, but it starts about 6 inches from the edge of the screen on both sides.

So Kamiya is on board.

>>1341259
>implying he is a tripfag in these threads.

>>1341062
sucks to be you nigga. i just picked up a high end 14" trinitron in melbourne for only 30 bucks. has component s video and rgb. The screen is in great nick too.

tfw trying to recreate that feel of being a kid and playing on a crt

>a saturday or sunday morning
>playing classic snes games or super rmario 64 at a low volume trying not to wake anyone up
>the room being just bright enough to see what you are doing but being comfortably dark
>the sun shining through the gap in the curtains
>dat smell of a bacon and eggs breakfast
>"annoonnnnnnn breakfast is ready"

;_;

So from what I get from these threads, a curved screen Sony Trinitron with an S-Video hookup is one of the best TVs for retro.

Well, thanks to the advice, I picked this up at a thrift shop yesterday for $10.

>>1341502
nice

>>1341502

The best are:
-BVMs, PVMs and other Professional monitors for an arcade feel and consoles that can output RGB.

- Trinitrons for SCART input for Yuro-bros

- Trinitrons with composite and S-Video for stuff like NES and N-64 (the SNES can output RGB natively, therefore go to the higher category).

- Your solid 70's or 80's color TV with RF only for Atari 2600 and other Pre-NES consoles.

The one you got is only third on a scale of 4. Still cool enough, as it's not you chinese shitbox.

>>1341502

The best are:
-BVMs, PVMs and other Professional monitors for an arcade feel and consoles that can output RGB.

- Consumer grade Trinitrons with RGB/SCART/Péritel input for Yuro-bros

- Consumer grade Trinitrons with composite and S-Video for stuff like NES and N-64 (the SNES can output RGB natively, therefore go to the higher category).

- Your solid 70's or 80's color TV with RF only for Atari 2600 and other Pre-NES consoles.

The one you got is only third on a scale of 4. Still cool enough, as it's not you chinese shitbox.

>>1341498
iktfb, iktf very well

>>1341502
It should work great!

>>1341512
There are more grades than that. If your grades are 1-4, there's a 1a as well: SDTVs with component input that can do 240p properly over component, used in conjunction with component-enabled consoles or RGB-enabled consoles via transcoder. And there's a big gulf between S-video and composite, so TVs that have S-video are typically far preferable over those without, especially the older the models get, because primitive comb filters and notch filters will produce worse-looking results from composite than TVs with good comb filters (but try to avoid *slow* comb filters).

Plus there's nothing wrong with flat tube TVs unless you get a bad one. Avoid the slim models when possible because a long tube is normally more conducive to better screen properties on the edges. I've particularly noticed that Korean brands tried to innovate with slim TVs for a long time, and the results were normally poor.

>>1341536

The 1-a you're talking about would be more like a 2-a, as I've already mentioned RGB capable SDTVs as the second grade.

I never mentioned any differences with flat-sceen. Here's an updated version:

-BVMs, PVMs and other Professional monitors (like Ikegami Broadcast monitors) for an arcade feel and consoles that can output RGB.

- Consumer grade Trinitrons with RGB/SCART/Péritel input for Yuro-bros, or Component input for Ameribros.

- Consumer grade TVs that aren't Trinitrons or Flat-screens with RGB/SCART/Péritel input for Yuro-bros, or Component input for Ameribros.

- Consumer grade Trinitrons with composite and S-Video (both) for stuff like NES and N-64 (the SNES can output RGB natively, therefore go to the higher category).

- Consumer grade TVs that aren't Trinitrons or Flat-screens with composite and S-Video (both).

- Consumer grade TVs with composite only.

- Your solid 70's or 80's color TV with RF only for Atari 2600 and other Pre-NES consoles.

- Oh God! What are you doing tier : Chinese shitbox with RF only.

I think we need to make a pic with all the recommendations and the warnings.

>>1341542

Is there a massive difference between 2-3 and 4, or is it just for the incredibly picky and discerning eye?

>>1341618

There's a massive difference. S-video is acceptable, but not as good as RGB and Component.

>>1341542
>I think we need to make a pic with all the recommendations and the warnings.
I don't.

I don't even think lists like yours are very helpful as everybody's needs are different.

>>1341663

I think it would be cool to have. I mean, it can't hurt to have a description and some examples... Not everyone is knowledgeable about these things.

>>1341628
>>1341542
S-Video doesn't look much different from Component (Wii emulation at original resolution) on my 14" PVM. I definitely wouldn't call it a massive difference