[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/vr/ - Retro Games


View post   

File: 23 KB, 268x188, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1322543 No.1322543 [Reply] [Original]

I'm sorry, but I just feel the need to vent about how Chrono Trigger is probably the most over rated jrpg ever. My first experience with it was in 1999. I procured a Japanese copy from Game Trading Zone by trading a few Nintendo power magazines. I don't speak moon so I couldn't enjoy the story and I quit before completing the Robo portion of the story. Fast forward to 2013. The game takes me about 20 hours to beat with the normal ending. Sparse side quests, over world is ass, game as a whole feels linear. Kind of like a Megaman game where you can choose your level, but the path from point a to b leaves not much to explore. I feel like everyone dug it because the art was done by Akira Toriyama and was a square game. All in all, the game was ridiculously easy. Thoughts?

>> No.1322549

It is overrated, but that's because it's worshiped, not because it isn't good.

>> No.1322551

>>1322549

Finally someone who gets the meaning of 'overrated'

>> No.1322556

>>1322549
I didn't say it wasn't good, it just doesn't compare to some of its contemporaries. Such as FF6. In fact, FF6 is like watching an MLB game and CT is like watching a peewee game where the teams are all named after the big league teams

>> No.1322559

>>1322543
Well the main reason people like CT is the visuals (not only graphics per se but also themes, etc) and soundtrack, not the actual game.

The actual game is pretty meh; if Chrono Trigger was an ASCII roguelike it'd get forgotten in days. But there's more to a game than just its mechanics, as important as those are. After all, 80% of all information goes into your brain through your eyes.

>> No.1322560

>>1322556
That's a really terrible analogy and you should feel bad about it.

>> No.1322578 [DELETED] 

>>1322560
Not so much. But I feel bad for accepting that beejee from your mom. It was the wrong thing to do. I was weak.

>> No.1322583

>>1322559
I get that. But even the visuals pale in comparison to SMRPG, which was also somewhat linear, though it had much more in the exploration department.

>> No.1322586

>>1322578
I can see this thread is really going places.

>> No.1322589

>>1322583
SMRPG's style looks pretty different (and IMO ugly) though. Everything looks lifeless and claylike.

>> No.1322595

>>1322586
Yeah, into >>1322556 moms snatch. But you probably already know that since you're the samefag.

>> No.1322603
File: 87 KB, 464x400, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1322603

>>1322589
I actually thought there was a lot of life and expression in its style. It more than what a normal sprite could convey

>> No.1322604

>>1322543
It did a lot of things right though. Coherent story without beating you over the head with it, the environments were all different, new game +...

The difficulty being low is a common complaint, and romhacks fix that (though I think it's fine. I died on 2 bosses (a few times on magus), and don't really feel like dying constantly in an rpg)

I agree that there isn't enough emphasis on exploration, short of just making sure you talk to everyone.

>> No.1322606

What is your favorite SNES RPG?

>> No.1322615

>>1322543
>Thoughts?
I found the game to be entertaining and I enjoyed the characters. It's far from my favorite game in the world, but it's one of maybe 6 jRPG's I actually enjoyed. It's a hard genre for me to like in general...

>> No.1322616

>>1322604
I agree in the sense that it did a lot of things right. It's definitely unique from other jrpgs of its time, like the shared attacks and lack of an overly convoluted plot. Not to mention that the music and visuals were gorgeous. I just expected a lot more from it.

>> No.1322618
File: 136 KB, 1152x1317, cactuar.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1322618

>>1322543
My 2 cents: Games like Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy 7 and Grandia all suffer from the "Interactive Storybook Syndrome" which is basically a difficulty so sparse that you may as well be reading a book or watching a film.

They do not tantalise your mind or invoke any form of strategic thinking when all you have to do to win is spam the attack button. In an RPG, the rest is important, no doubt and i have been brought up on these games and loved them to bits.

At age 26 though, I cannot play these shallow things without some sort of difficulty mod to balance the games and take full advantage of the systems they have in them but ultimately squander due to easiness.

FF7 Hard Type is something i have enjoyed to a large degree and has really brought a new appreciation to the game. The same goes for Grandia ReDux, which is simply a must play for anyone on this board.

I am going to see about a Chrono Trigger mod, which would again benefit greatly from this treatment. I will post my findings on this page soon. It could be just the thing you need to begin enjoying the game, though as i've not yet sampled it's delights, I couldnt tell you.

Watch this space!

>> No.1322625

>>1322618
I believe a deep set of ways to play (via customization, nonlinearity or even plain RNG dependency) and exploration is much more important for an RPG than mere story focus or presentation values. That's why I dropped both FF7 and Grandia, neither of them fulfilled what I expect from a good RPG.

>> No.1322627

>>1322618
You may very we'll be right. I'm 25 and have trouble finding the enjoyment I once had with with jrpgs. I've been playing FF8 and I find the story to be incredibly boring. The game fights are also a lot less challenging than I remember.

>> No.1322630

>>1322625
I can dig. Can you suggest a title that fits your criteria? Saga Frontier comes to mind, but not much else in the retro era.

>> No.1322632

>>1322630
I play mostly old PC RPGs. Realms of Arkania is one of my favorite series. Also Wizardry 7 is a good one, if you don't mind crazy and RNG-heavy difficulty at the start.

>> No.1322638

>>1322618
Ever consider making the move to western RPG's? Take a look at Planescape: Torment if you haven't already.

>> No.1322639

>>1322632
For some reason I can't stand art direction that looks like it was inspired by a combination of jrr Tolkien and Heman. I know I'm missing out... Wish I could get myself over it.

>> No.1322641

>>1322638
Looks good. Kind of reminds me of a combination of Diablos and Fallout. I'll have to give it a shot. Thanks.

>> No.1322645
File: 21 KB, 320x200, 1389122089325.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1322645

>>1322639
Wizardry 7 looks nothing like that.

>> No.1322649
File: 42 KB, 320x200, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1322649

>>1322645
You are correct. But Realms of Arkania does.

>> No.1322650

>>1322543

>The game takes me about 20 hours to beat with the normal ending
>Sparse side quests, over world is ass, game as a whole feels linear
> I feel like everyone dug it because the art was done by Akira Toriyama and was a square game

I feel like I played a different game. Still, you know, taste is subjective and all.

>> No.1322653

>>1322649
Fair enough. But as a person who generally dislikes this kind of setting, I have no problem with it in RoA. Especially since the game does a good job at everything else (well, the latter two games at least, first one is rather rough)

>> No.1322656

>>1322650
To be fair, the game definitely has more content than what credit I gave to the game, what with new game+ and multiple endings. I still feel it comes out short compared to its contemporaries in term of content at the end of the day.

>> No.1322657
File: 30 KB, 244x322, FFVIII_GF_Jumbo_Cactuar2.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1322657

>>1322638
Yes indeed, I have played and completed ps:t and I can say it was one of the only few wrpg's I've ever loved.

That game certainly doesn't pull any punches in the mental acuity department!

A shame I wasnt reared on the like of Fallout and Baldurs gate etc. For me the attention is too sporadic. An open world is a lovely idea, but at the cost of a focused story is difficult for me to get absorbed in. Though I certainly recognize that these are very good games, it is merely a preference.

>> No.1322659

>>1322656

Maybe because I'm more of a feels-oriented guy when playing RPGs and in the other hand, you are looking for something that presents a challenge.

I don't get bored if I don't die every 2 bosses in the game, but I can understand that for other people it may present a boring factor.

>> No.1322660

It's a shitload better than Earthbound and not nearly as highly rated so you can't possibly say its the most overrated.

>> No.1322665

>>1322659
No one likes to have to lose frequently to get through an rpg. Part of the fun for me is figuring out what works, and potentially having to prep for a boss.

>> No.1322670

>>1322660
I've never played Earthbound and I don't think I will. I think they're probably on the same tier

>> No.1322680

>>1322659
It doesn't have to be one or the other, though. A game can be challenging but also have "feels" by which I guess you mean story-focused content? Play Lufia 1 for example, really challenging but also story focused. But yeah those games are rare, Lufia 1 was made just between the era of really hard JRPGs and interactive storybook easy JRPGs, after the "CT" era it's hard to find challenging jrpgs with a story focus.

Regarding CT I agree with >>1322618 when he says
>At age 26 though, I cannot play these shallow things without some sort of difficulty mod

Same thing happens to me, I grew up with CT but god do I find it boring now. It's just too easy, and it was also really easy when I played it as a kid. Yes the story is endearing and the graphics/music is great, but the gameplay is lacking.

OP's right, it is overrated, and that doesn't mean it's bad, it just means that there's a lot of people that grew up with it and refuse to see its faults.

>> No.1322689

>>1322670
Chrono Trigger is worlds better. The only people who would seriously put Earthbound over it are people who really hate the fantasy setting and possibly children.

>> No.1322705

>>1322660
Yes, i have never understood peoples obsession with this mediocrity in game form.

On the other shoe, it's successor, Mother 3 is a wonderful game, one i shall remember in many years to come.

>> No.1322716

>>1322705
And yet it has and will never occur to you that you're just wrong.

>> No.1322721

>>1322705
Mother 3 is mostly the same shit. I don't get why anybody would hate one and love the other? It's either neither or both.

>> No.1322725

>>1322716
Proof is in the pudding, or in this case, the PK.

>> No.1322729

>>1322705
Ditto. I've honestly tried to read many positive reviews/critiques regarding Earthbound, because it really amazes me how many people claim it's a masterpiece.

It always comes down to the same thing: "it's so quirky", "it's so original", "the final boss is such a mindfuck". Quirky and original it may well be, but it's still devoid of any narrative focus or cohesion. And the final battle is cool, but people are really grasping at straws to overanalyze it until it's all meaningful and life-changing.

Nobody addresses the fact that plot-wise it's a mess or that the gameplay is totally generic. It did have on-screen enemies and autodefeat based on levels, but that's just not enough to make it a great game, and neither are random hippie monsters or senseless quirky dialogue.

>> No.1322746

>>1322716
In what way is Earthbound better than mediocre? Price?

>> No.1322752

>>1322746
mediocre graphics (granted, it's its style and they are varied).
mediocre generic gameplay with a badly implemented gimmick that is seldom used.
mediocre plot with no motivation or actual conflicto until the very end of the game which also comes out of nowhere.
mediocre characters that are never more than tired cliches.

>> No.1322753

>>1322746
Like Chrono Trigger, it boils down to visuals and music. And hype/cool nerd cred.

>> No.1322754

>>1322746
Earthbound is clever and inventive, while Mother 3 is railroaded, preachy and dull. Your taste is ass-backwards.

>> No.1322760

>>1322754
Uhh im not the same guy, buddy?

>> No.1322768
File: 411 KB, 1200x1200, 1375259754063.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1322768

>>1322760
Right, I misclicked. Sorry.

>> No.1322772

>>1322754
>Earthbound is clever and inventive, while Mother 3 is railroaded, preachy and dull

....anyway, shit posting aside we're getting off topic here. Consider this OP: it was the snes era, they're hardly going to be able to produce an openworld the equivalent of FF12

>> No.1322781

>>1322772
Uh, Ultima games had open world since 1981

>> No.1322794

>>1322781
But we be talking of the JRPG's 'ere me laddy.
They played by different rules entirely.

The line may have blurred quite recently, but back then, big open worlds were just unheard of for the nips/

>> No.1322857

>>1322794
>big open worlds were just unheard of for the nips
But that's wrong.
Disregarding the fact that Ultima came out in nipland too (as well as Wizardry 6-7 and Might & Magic), they've had their own share of open world tilt in RPG series like early Dragon Quest, Romancing SaGa or Metal Max.

captcha Junction ovvJap

>> No.1322860

>>1322794
>But we be talking of the JRPG's 'ere me laddy.
Most jrpgs still had massive world maps to encourage exploration, just look at Dragon Quest. They weren't "open world" but they were huge, and in comparison Chrono Trigger's world map is tiny and oversimplified.

>> No.1322874

>>1322559
What? The actual game is great. New Game + offers tons of replay and the combo techs are awesome. Combat is fast and the lack of a dedicated battle screen makes the transition less of a pain in the ass. Chrono Trigger is the best 16 bit RPG.

Kids these days take it for granted, hence they think its "overrated". Playing it in '95 blew me away.

>> No.1322894

>>1322874
It has no depth, period. We talked about this yesterday but chrono trigger might as well have been renamed mystic quest 2. There is almost no way you lose any fight minus the golems. Even that fight is laced with a learn to win gimmick that unloads any challenge.

It may have, in your opinion, a great story and music, but when you're talking gameplay it sorely lags behind it's contemporaries.

>> No.1322907

>>1322894
Disregard that, I suck cocks.

>> No.1322916

>>1322874
Mario RPG, Final Fantasy IV, Final Fantasy V, Final Fantasy VI, Breath of Fire > Chrono Trigger

>> No.1322919

>>1322794
>big open worlds were just unheard of for the nips
You think no videogame developer in japan knew about ultima?

>> No.1322927

>>1322916
Final Fantasy II (Japan for NES) > Chrono Trigger

>> No.1322931

>>1322916
Secret of Evermore > Chrono Trigger

>> No.1322935

>>1322916
Breath of Fire? Really? That's like Baby's First RPG.

>> No.1322937

>>1322935
I feel that way even more so about Chrono Trigger.

>> No.1322942

>>1322916
Super Ninja Boy > Chrono Trigger

>> No.1322943

>>1322916
>>1322927
>>1322931
Out of all those, only FFVI and V really compare to CT.

>> No.1322946

>>1322943
What makes Chrono Trigger better than FFIV?

>> No.1322954

>>1322946
Gameplay, pacing, story, graphics, music

>> No.1322957

>>1322919
Dohh, I just don't know anymore!

>> No.1322963

>>1322954
>Gameplay

There is no way you can be serious. CT rips off the battle system of the FF series by gutting the majority of it and adding techs.

Pacing and story are the same shit, nice try though and both are subjective as is music. So I can't argue these without sounding like a dick.

>> No.1322972

>>1322954
Could you be more vague? What about the gameplay was better? It's essentially the same battle gameplay. The only difference is that Chrono Trigger does away with the traditional means to encounter and doesn't put enemies on the left hand side of the screen with protagonists on the right. The compositions in FFIV are far superior to CT, though the sound quality in CT is arguably better. Graphics in CT are also better. I call BS on your pacing argument.

>> No.1322980

>>1322954
>Gameplay
but FFIV is more challenging than CT

>> No.1322983

>>1322972
I forgot to mention that CT's story and characters are subpar. Chrono has no personality! He's a soulless ginger. Mario is also a silent protagonist in SMRPG but is very expressive and comical.

On the story, CT had the time travel plot which was cool. However, everything in between was junk. The only cool specific plot point was when Chrono was put on trial and your actions were recapped. That was actually pretty cool. Everything else was incredibly "meh".

>> No.1322985

>>1322874
>New Game + offers tons of replay
No, it just lets you breeze through the game to defeat Lavos at various different points. There's nothing else to "replay" here. Chrono Cross would actually add value beyond different endings, but CT didn't.
>and the combo techs are awesome.
And also superflous because there's no difficulty or strategy where you'd have to use anything beyond the most powerful ones, with very few exceptions. See Phantasy Star IV for an example of this system being implemented right.
>Combat is fast
No it's not. It's slow, even when the battle speed is at máximum. You literally just wait for a bar to fill, over and over, while enemies casually attack. It might as well just have been agility-turn based.
>and the lack of a dedicated battle screen makes the transition less of a pain in the ass.
That's about the only thing it has going for it, but it's not such a huge plus. Transitions mean nothing if the battle themselves have you just wait for a bar to fill while you do absolutely nothing.
You also didn't mention how you could see the enemies on-screen, which was a good idea in principle, but often you can't avoid them at all and running away is a sluggish mess.
>Chrono Trigger is the best 16 bit RPG.
Debatable.
>Kids these days take it for granted, hence they think its "overrated". Playing it in '95 blew me away.
The old "kids these days" argument. I played it in '95 too and while the graphics and music were outstanding, the gameplay was not. It may have blowed you away, but realice that CT was not the first of its kind in its system, and other jrpgs actually had deeper gameplay with similar mechanics. Plus, you know, actual difficulty.

>> No.1322990

>>1322963
Personally I like the touches to the combat. The fact that there's no random encounters, that fights happen in the environment, that the characters can actually change position, the addition of dual and triple techs adding another layer (don't remember if IV technically did this first with Palom/Porom or not). It just feels so much smoother and more dynamic as compared to IV, which is more basic. Is CT easier? Probably, but difficulty does not define quality.

And while story is subjective, I'd argue that CT's somewhat simpler story works in it's favor. IV had some really dumb plot points, like "OH HEY THIS CHARACTER THAT DIED EARLIER IS STILL ALIVE FOR NO REASON BUT TO SHOW THAT THEY ARE STILL ALIVE!" or "THE BAD GUY IS BRAINWASHING THIS OTHER GUY INTO BEING BAD BUT THE BAD GUY IS ALSO BRAINWASHED INTO BEING THE BAD GUY BY ANOTHER BAD GUY!"

>> No.1322996

>>1322990
There were detailed explanations for everything you just mentioned story wise. And none of that sounds stupider than the whole Magus situation.

>> No.1323034

>>1322990
Chrono Trigger = deep fried ass

>> No.1323039

>>1322996
Detailed explanations? Like the explanation that Palom/Porom were un-stoned by the village elder despite it having been earlier stated they couldn't be un-stoned? How Yang and Cid survived because...they just did? And 'deep, complex reasons' for why Zemus can control Golbez? Yeah, even then it doesn't make it any less stupid.

At least the whole Magus situation works within the context of the story with time travel and such. Was his plan ultimately foolish? Yes, but not because the plot itself was.

>>1323034
You sure told me.

>> No.1323042

>>1322985
>jrpg
>difficulty
what planet do you live on?

>> No.1323051

>>1322990
>Bashing the brainwashing in FF4

Both Kain and Golbez were controlled by Zemus, due to harboring deep-rooted darkness. Golbez, as a black mage, was already susceptible to influence, and Kain was secretly jealous of Cecil's relationship with Rosa.

But yes, a number of characters are 'killed' and resurrected in contrived ways, it's true.

>> No.1323058

>>1322935
Sssshhh.. They don't like to hear that here.

And while were at it:
Treasure of the Rudras > CT

>> No.1323078

>>1322963
>gutting
Dude it's the same shit as FFIV to the T

>> No.1323105
File: 494 KB, 500x374, 1369280832846.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1323105

>>1322543
There's like 15 side quests. How many do you want?
http://chrono.wikia.com/wiki/Sidequest

Is 20 hours not enough? I'm happy with it, how long do you want it do be?

Yeah, the overworld sucks but it'd be tedious as fuck traveling from some places to others over and over and over, seeing as you'd have to do it in multiple time lines.

I agree with the Megaman level linearity and it could improve there, but oh well.

It did however handle time travel really well but that's just like my opinion man.


This is one of my absolute favorite turn based RPGs but I don't really like that genre. Maybe that's a lot of other people's reasoning for liking it too; people who aren't into the genre can get into the game all the same.

>> No.1323138

the only really interesting thing about chrono trigger is the graphics and music which are top notch

the story doesn't really go anywhere. You get a long series of mediocre filler and than you get told all the filler is caused by 1 monster whom you than kill. It doesnt help that the main character has no personality.

The actual combat and exploring itself (the most important aspect since you spend 90% of the game doing it). It rarely veers away from the boring standard of mash attack and heal when at low health. The pary size is thin. You could spend the entire game tinkering with different set ups in something like ff5 or shin megami, chronotrigger gets stale very quickly in contrast.

The dungeons are fairly linear even by other jrpgs standards. Half the secrets and optional paths just lead to a potion and the game is easy enough so that many players will go through the entire game never using any potions.

It doesn't do anything that other jrpgs havn't done countless times before.

While its definitly flashy and the soundtrack is incredible other than that its a fairly generic rpg

>> No.1323172

What are you, 12? You judge games by their completion time? I bet you judge movies by their run length. Linearity? Do you hate a movie because it's a narrative?

What about the fucking game? These are the most asinine complaints I've ever heard.

>> No.1323175

>>1323105
>There's like 15 side quests. How many do you want?
Oh come on, that list is stretching it.

>Hunting Grounds - Hunting for Nu
That's not a sidequest, even though that's one of the few optional areas in the game. There's no "quest" here, you can just battle random monsters for loot.

>Kajar and Enhasa - Searching for Melchior's hidden labs
This isn't a quest either, it's just optional areas you can unlock.

Those two are the ONLY optional/hidden areas.

>Forest Ruins - Finding the treasures of Zeal.
This isn't hidden at all, it's a big blue glowing pyramid. All you do is walk up and press A twice, hardly a sidequest.

Everything else is not hidden. I don't think "Black Omen" is a sidequest since several versions of the game require you to beat it before unlocking NG+, and the whole array of missions you get during the Fated Hour could be considered sidequests, but having the guiding NPC keeping a checklist of them for you and a whole chapter of the game dedicated to you finishing them kind of defeats the "side" point. You can skip them, but they're not hidden at all and the game hammers you over the head with the fact that they're important.

>> No.1323183

>>1323172
>You judge games by their completion time? I bet you judge movies by their run length.
He's judging the game's lack of difficulty and content. Also you assumption/analogy is faulty, since games require interactivity. Movies do not.
>Linearity? Do you hate a movie because it's a narrative?
Again comparing movies to games. A movie isn't interactive, a game is.

>What about the fucking game?
>Sparse side quests, over world is ass, game as a whole feels linear.
Can you read? He finds the game's content lacking with no exploration or freedom.

Stop insulting at random. This isn't /v/.

>> No.1323217

>>1322543
I'm torn on CT. On one hand, I love the time travel aspect of the game (seeing as how in '95 i hadn't played a game that had covered time travel that well) and the whole thing of the creators of Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy working on a project together was quite sweet. That being said, I found the battle system kind of unremarkable, the music was decent in some places and not so much in others, and the "side-quests" didn't really feel like extra hidden content.

Overall, I think CT might have made a better movie than a game, but that's just me. Oh and btw,

FFVI > CT
SMRPG > CT
Phantasy Star IV > CT

>> No.1323253
File: 111 KB, 512x448, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1323253

>>1323217
I agree. It could have made a sweet OVA. Or even an action RPG.

Another gripe I have that I didn't mention is I feel like there were 15 enemies total, not counting bosses and palette swaps. Pic related somewhat.

>> No.1323281

I really don't get the appeal of calling a game overrated and making a thread about my opinion on a game being overrated. I mean if you really think about it, most games wouldn't and shouldn't count as overrated. Chrono trigger has at best 1/10th the fanbase something like minecraft and CoD has.

For something to be overrated it needs a massive amount of support that is undeserved. Overrated also does not mean bad like neckbeards on /v/ believe. With that said, that is the reason I listed CoD and Minecraft. Those are games that have more fans then literally most other games you can likely think of. Many people see them as the best games they ever played and you won't convince them otherwise. I played a ton of CoD. I can safely say I know for me it is overrated.

I don't even feel like most games truly are overrated on 4chan even since there are a ton of people like OP always claiming that a certain game is overrated to balance things out. Chrono Trigger and FFVII get called overrated constantly on 4chan.

As for my opinion on chrono trigger, I only played it once and it was more memorable then most games I ever played. That to me means a whole lot. When I can play a game and it stays far more memorable then some games I even played multiple times. I also played chrono trigger way after release. When I was 14 I believe. Yes I like Akira art work a lot, yeah it was easy but most jrpg are easy.

>> No.1323341

>>1323281
Overrated is a dangerous term to be honest. No matter what follows the term is going to cause someone to retaliate.

>> No.1323353

>>1323281
OP here. You've got it all wrong dude. I'm not the type to attack a game because it goes against the grain. There's no appeal to be sought by posting a thread like this. The idea is to see how far I am in the minority, or if in fact I am alone in my opinions of a game that gets great reviews retrospectively.

I for one love FFVII. I know what you mean about people shouting down a game where the consensus is that it's great just to be hip. What I, and others are doing is comparing it to games for the same system in the same genre. Notice terms like "contemporary" being used. To get into the whole Call of Duty is to miss the point. Which, by the way, I do think CoD is a pretty overrated series.

What gets me going about CT is it seems to be that the consensus is that it is one of the best JRPGs ever, if not the best 16 bit era jrpg. Having grown up with the snes and finally having played this game I missed out on, I was disappointed. I don't even think it holds a candle to SMRPG. I don't even think that I'd place it on a top 20 list of great snes games. My question is "am I the only one?".

>> No.1323357

>>1323341
I knew that posting the thread. I was hoping a passionate response might help me to see something I missed. So far it has not.

>> No.1323378

>>1323353
I don't see how you could react so differently to FF7 and CT, considering how similar both of them are in base design.

>> No.1323386

I liked Chrono Trigger. I replayed it at least 6 times within two years of buying it. I haven't played it in a decade, though. I guess I just got my fill of it. Its definitely better than Mario RPG, but not as good as the SNES Final Fantasies.

>> No.1323390

>>1323217
Ok, battle system, fine, though I really don't see how it could be any more unremarkable than FFVI's or SMRPG's. They're all pretty standard really. Music, eh subjective, I think it's pretty outstanding overall but that's just me.

Where I take issue, though, is how apparently side-quests need to be hidden to count as side-quests. This feels very nitpicky. A side quest is a chain of events that are not mandatory to complete. Having the game point out that they are there does NOT mean they are mandatory. There is NO reason why a sidequest has to be hidden. This gripe just seems dumb to me.

>> No.1323396

>>1323378
Easy. The characters are more likable, the game is 3-4 times longer with additional content to merit its length, optional super bosses, a better story (albeit with a janky translation), character design diversity, better music, better overworld... Need I go on?

>> No.1323403

>>1323390
The idea is that a side quest should be revealed as a reward for exploration.

>> No.1323416

>>1323396
>The characters are more likable
I sure don't think so. Do they have more depth? Maybe, but not more likable imo.

>the game is 3-4 times longer with additional content to merit its length/optional story
More content doesn't necessarily mean it's better content, though I seem to be alone on this.

>a better story
Eh you're probably sick of hearing this, but it borrowed too much from VI for me.

>character design diversity
Can't argue as much here, but Toriyama so...

>better music, better overworld
Disagree. Not only do I like CT's music better, but I always found VII's overworld outside of Midgar kind of unspectacular.

>>1323403
That's just an idea though, one that people have gotten into their heads.

>> No.1323423

>>1323403
>The idea is that a side quest should be revealed as a reward for exploration.
That is an absurd idea.
Side quests should be placed wherever it makes sense to place them. Hidden, non-hidden, whatever.

>> No.1323427
File: 41 KB, 250x345, cover4main.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1323427

>>1322916
Even Genesis, which doesn't have much in the way of any RPGs, has a better 16-bit RPG.

>> No.1323429

>>1323138
>the only really interesting thing about chrono trigger is the graphics and music which are top notch
The graphics and music are top notch in a vacuum, but certainly not for 1995, even if it was on Super Nintendo.

>> No.1323428

>>1323427
Genesis has plenty of RPGs

>> No.1323431

>>1323429
I'm not even a huge Chrono Trigger fan, but that's just not true. Chrono Trigger looks great even next to Saturn and Playstation titles.

>> No.1323432

>>1323428
All I remember is Shining Force and Phantasy Star. Most people bought Genesis for Arcade, Sports, and Multiplats.

>> No.1323434

>>1323427
Oh boy, here we go with the "These semi-obscure Genesis games you've never heard of are better!" thing.

Let's just sum up this thread and say that every other RPG released that gen is better than CT. Really, that is pretty much the whole point now.

>> No.1323435

>>1323432
There is actually a very good number of RPGs for the platform, and the ratio of good to bad is better than the SNES. Too many mediocre titles on the SNES.

>> No.1323439

>>1323431
>Chrono Trigger looks great even next to Saturn and Playstation titles.
Nah, it's nothing particularly amazing or revolutionary. Even the music is hard to tell apart from other Square titles on SNES.

>> No.1323442

>>1323439
It is quite amazing for the SNES. The graphics all look like believable areas, instead of RPG maker tilesets. That is extremely rare for an SNES title.

No, it doesn't look amazing compared to a 32bit game, but it compares quite well with early era 32bit games.

>> No.1323448

>>1323442
Compare the areas in Chrono Trigger, many of which look hand drawn to those in FF6 (which I like more as an actual game). FF6's look blocky and artificial. This is to say nothing of the sprites.

>> No.1323451

>>1323442
Yeah but then there's games like dq3, tales of phantasia, ffvi, and star ocean that poo all over it.

>> No.1323453

I am 29 years old and can't enjoy JRPGs anymore.

When I was younger I loved them, but it was because of the story, I wanted to see more of it, and playing Chrono Trigger was like a different way of turning the pages of a book to see the next chapters.
Nowadays I don't feel the stories are good enough, when you compare them to serious literature.

The only RPGs I enjoy are Fire Emblem and Pokemon, and for their not rpg aspects, in fire emblem I press start to skip the cut scenes and dialogues and go straight to the battles, in Pokemon I only breed Pokemon with perfect ivs and battle people online.

I don't hate rpgs, the average shooter or action game that is considered mature for mature gamers like myself has a story that isn't better than a Rambo movie or B class Zombie Movie.
Only games with no story never offend your intelligence.

>> No.1323459

>>1323451
Play FF6 and CT back to back. FF6 looks extremely primitive by comparison.

Tales and Star Ocean are more graphically intensive, and are amongst the largest games on the system. That's all of 2 games, though, and CT definitely has more distinctive art.

>> No.1323461

As always, 4chan hates it because it's popular.

What a surprise.

>> No.1323468

>>1323453
I enjoy the stories for what they are. If they try to be "deep", it is insulting, though, yes. I don't play them for the stories anymore though. I play them for the experience. Which means that unique settings, good music, and cool art design are a must. I simply don't have the patience for a generic mediocre jrpg anymore.

Not that this has anything to do with Chrono, though. I just don't play that one because I played it a million times already.

>> No.1323471

>>1323390
I would agree that the battle systems in FFVI and SMRPG are not remarkable either. I was really addressing the point earlier of the anon that suggested the battle system in CT was much more amazing than it actually is.

As for the side-quests, I've always felt that the player should have to put in effort to find side quests, as a secret reward for their efforts. It wasn't something i was "told or lead to believe" it just felt intuitive. I feel the same way about CT's side-quests now as i did in 1995. They felt like they were just handed to you on a silver platter, you didn't have to work for them. Sure they aren't mandatory, but there's no mystery to them if they are just handed to you. That however, is my own opinion and should be taken as such.

>> No.1323481
File: 231 KB, 1000x1378, ps4-fullpagead.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1323481

>>1323434
>Oh boy, here we go with the "These semi-obscure Genesis games you've never heard of are better!" thing.

Since when was Phantasy Star semi-obscure? I remember reading game mags in the early '90s that were loaded with Phantasy Star ads.
Sure it wasn't as mainstream as FF or CT, but i'd hardly say it was semi-obscure.
>Pic related

>> No.1323495

>>1323471
Well the main reason CT's battle system stands out to me over VI and SMRPG is more the presentation. The fact that battles happen right on the field, the way the characters actively move around, that sort of thing. Not an amazing battle system, no, but still.

And eh, fair enough. Personally I don't consider side quests and exploration to be necessarily related. A game can have a lot of one and little of the other, for instance. And really I judge them more on what they add to the game, which in this case was fleshing out the world and tying up loose ends.

>>1323481
Figured that was a sign of things to come. Usually that's how it goes.

>> No.1323524

In my oppinion, Chrono Trigger is a puzzle adventure that just happens to use JRPG mechanics.

Since there are no random encounters and the game is heavily linear for until after Zeal the design takes advantage of knowing approximately what level and powers you have for the boss battles.

It's like the RPG segments in Frog Bell.

Puzzle games tend to be easy when you already know the answers. Puzzle games also tend to be short.

It may not have that sense of "You WILL die if you leave the town unprepared" but dragon quest 1 and 8 are the only ones that really did that kind of gameplay right anyway.

>> No.1323530

>>1323390
>Where I take issue, though, is how apparently side-quests need to be hidden to count as side-quests. This feels very nitpicky. A side quest is a chain of events that are not mandatory to complete.
But with CT everything after getting to the End of Time is non-mandatory to complete, because you can kill the final boss and end the game at any time should you choose to grind like a madman.

Having the ability to skip on doing stuff does not make them "sidequests", it's just the game letting you skip stuff.

>> No.1323550

>>1323461
>As always, 4chan hates it because it's popular.
Nobody is hating CT. People are discussing why they consider it overrated or not. Learn to read.

>>1323459
>Play FF6 and CT back to back. FF6 looks extremely primitive by comparison.
>>1323495
>Well the main reason CT's battle system stands out to me over VI and SMRPG is more the presentation.
CT's presentation is a lot more polished and cohesive, and it says something how much it carries the game when it's the main point of how it's the better rpg. We should be judging stuff on content, and FFVI certainly beats CT in that regard, even though it's has far less graphical flair.

On that note yes, PSIV offers far more content than CT as well as a better story and a better gameplay, and I feel it's appropriate to compare them because the one thing that sets CT's gameplay apart, the combo techs, is also present in PSIV, but it's a lot more refined. But since PSIV didn't have Toriyama sazz and Square hype, nobody's overrating it and claiming it to be the quintaessential jrpg, and that's the whole point of this really, people do say that CT is this flawless masterpiece when it all has going for it its is presentation.

>> No.1323569

>>1323550
>presentation
thing is, is presentation means quite a lot. sometimes it means everything.

just look at those execrable chris nolan batman movies

>> No.1323575

>>1323569

The Dark knight is a masterpiece, and you are just being an edgy faggot if you say otherwise.

>> No.1323581

>>1323569
>thing is, is presentation means quite a lot. sometimes it means everything.
I know some people feel that way, but I guess we can all agree it's a very shallow way of looking at things. It does hold certain importance, but presentation just doesn't override shallow content (or at least shouldn't).

>just look at those execrable chris nolan batman movies
lol, you think they had good presentation? they were quite bland in that regard, the colors were muted and lifeless. I never understood why they were so hyped. Well I only watched the first two, maybe this improved in the third one? If anything I'd say the Burton films had a much better presentation.

>> No.1323604

>>1323581
I for one wouldn't say CT is shallow. It isn't a DEEP game, no, but at the same time it isn't something I'd just brush off as 'shallow', if that's what you are trying to say it is.

>> No.1323606

>>1323581
>lol, you think they had good presentation?
sure they did
I didn't like them at all but I can't deny the guy is effective at visuals

>> No.1323615

>>1323604
I think it's actually a good thing that CT doesn't try to be too deep

a lot of PS RPGs tried to go in the direction of being deep and they just wound up being ridiculous and kind of embarassing

>> No.1323628

>>1323604
As a whole it's not shallow, like you say it's not deep either, but the gameplay is very shallow, even by jrpgs standards.

>>1323615
>I think it's actually a good thing that CT doesn't try to be too deep
I agree with you, but I'm not talking about the plot at all, I'm talking about the gameplay which I feel should be the crux of the matter seeing how CT is a game and not a movie or a book. I do agree though and I think the problem with PS-era rpgs trying to be "deep" is that they were all angsty too, and it's all just ridiculous.

>> No.1323637

>>1323628
>agree with you, but I'm not talking about the plot at all, I'm talking about the gameplay
oh, I see
that's true, but let's be fair, it's not like its contemporaries were much better in the gameplay department, especially if you exclude games that didn't get a NA/EU release

>> No.1323650

>>1323637
>it's not like its contemporaries were much better in the gameplay department
there are a lot of examples people have given in this thread of rpgs and jrpgs with better gameplay, or at least gameplay that doesn't boil down to "wait for bar to fill"

>> No.1323686

Maybe this is off-topic, but since it involves CT I'll post:

I just finished Xenogears a week or so ago, and is it wrong for me to think that at it's most basic the plot seemed to be a remake of CT? Just replace Lavos with Deus.

>> No.1323694

>>1323686
only in the really vague sense that both villains came from space

>> No.1323708

>>1323694

they also mentioned how Deus feeds off Earth and it's inhabitants, and something about how the only purpose of humans was for Deus to feed off of.

>> No.1323709
File: 36 KB, 450x337, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1323709

>>1323686
OP here. I have to disagree. I think Xenogears plot and gameplay (up until disc 2) are far superior. Though I won't deny some elements are similar. By the way, did you happen to come across Lucca in Lahan early on?

>> No.1323718

>>1323709

hah yep. Seeing her and the sages had me questioning if this game was a tie-in to the CT universe at first.


And I agree that the plot and gameplay were better, I just mean if you were to summarize the whole game in a short paragraph I think it sounds eerily close to CT. Xenogears just tells it in a way more elaborate way.

>> No.1323730

>>1323718
I think that there's too much to stretch to have them fit in the same cookie cutter. I'll say this though, there had to have been some inspiration. I mean, Square could have used a number of different characters to cameo, perhaps more popular characters, but they reference CT.

>> No.1323751

>>1323730

yeah I guess. I just thought that some giant monster/being that is going to consume the world and protagonists who refuse to accept their purpose of said monster's food seems rather specific to have in two games.

>> No.1323756

>>1323751
...you must replay the game again. I think you missed some important plot points. Lavos was eating the whole planet. Deus was just eating the people.

>> No.1323771

>>1322794
Play Final Fantasy II and Dragon Quest. One of the big complaints is that you can wander into areas that the enemies can easily destoy your party.

>> No.1323775 [DELETED] 

>>1323709
>they also mentioned how Deus feeds off Earth and it's inhabitants

It's pretty absurd to use the word 'remake' in any context based on this.

>and something about how the only purpose of humans was for Deus to feed off of.
The parallel in Chrono Trigger is a mistranslation.

http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Translation_Differences.html
Ctrl+F "Magus Evolution Statement"

>> No.1323780

>>1323756

my bad, I still think it's similar.

>>1323775

well shit. Damn translators. I take all my comparisons to CT (besides the sages making an appearance) back.

>> No.1323787

>>1323708
>>1323780
Quoted the wrong person and 4chan wouldn't let me delete my post fast enough.

>they also mentioned how Deus feeds off Earth and it's inhabitants

It's pretty absurd to use the word 'remake' in any context based on this.

>and something about how the only purpose of humans was for Deus to feed off of.
The parallel in Chrono Trigger is a mistranslation.

http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Translation_Differences.html
Ctrl+F "Magus Evolution Statement"

>> No.1323830

>>1323787
Also no gears in CT

>> No.1323869
File: 66 KB, 300x360, 1377900991369.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1323869

>>1323575
>anyone who's not a complete pleb is just being le edgy

>> No.1323928

>>1323427
have you actually tried to play phantasy star 4 lately? it's a pretty bland experience.

>> No.1323937

chrono trigger is fun the first time through, it's not terribly short, the music and art is quite good, and it's very memorable. for a 16-bit jrpg it's within the top tier. but it's far from the top of that tier, given its low replay value, linear nature, and low difficulty.

I do think it's overrated but not terribly so. I mean, it's not the best rpg of the 16-bit era by any means, but I'd certainly still call it a must-play.

>> No.1323939

>>1323928
I guess if you don't like RPGs at all.

>> No.1323947

>>1323709
>Though I won't deny some elements are similar.
That's because they were written by the same guy, Masato Kato, who also wrote Chrono Cross and Baten Kaitos. His games dominated my teenage years.

It can be argued Tetsuya Takahashi is responsible for Xenogears, but the mediocre stories of Xenoblade and Xenosaga shows that he's not real reason why XG is good. XG resembles Chrono Cross far more than it does XB or XS.

>> No.1323950

>>1323939
>You don't like this one example of X
>Therefore you don't like X

No.

Stop this retarded thought process.

>> No.1323952

>>1323950
Well, let me rephrase it then. If you don't like [phantasy star] X, you are being a contrarian faggot.

And for the record I'm not the one who brought that entirely irrelevant game into the conversation and I've been defending Chrono Trigger, because its a pretty good game.

>> No.1323957

>>1323952
>you are being a contrarian faggot.

Uh, no. People don't like some things. You're allowed to not like things. I don't think it's shit, but I'm allowed to not like it.

>> No.1323963

>>1323952
>If you don't like [phantasy star] X, you are being a contrarian faggot.

Please don't be stupid.

>> No.1323972

I don't get how you can say CT battle encounter system is worse than the standard random battle system. Sure, you can't avoid everything, but there's still plenty you can avoid. Plus, there's never that many enemies per screen. As opposed to FF games that have 10+ unavoidable random battles per screen, all of which switch to a completely different screen. The only advantage they have is running is easier, but there's few standard battles in CT that take long.

The over world being small doesn't automatically make it shit. I found it a well put together, nice looking over world. Besides, they had to make like five different variations of it that made sense. And not having to deal with random battles is a nice change.

>> No.1323971

>>1323928
I could not disagree more. PS IV was perhaps one of the greatest endings to an RPG series ever. It took several of the characters from the first 3 games and gave them all due and proper endings. In fact even CT's combo techs (which is something people praise constantly in that game) are in PS IV, but more refined and dare i say perfected. However, that is my opinion and should be treated as such.

>> No.1324075

>>1323972
Who complained the overworked was small? It's a decent size, with very few points of interest. That is the problem.

>> No.1324091

>>1324075
Err, overworld. Faggit auto correct

>> No.1324428

Trigger is an amalgamation of mediocrity

>> No.1324630

>ITT
>whiny contrarians
>"this game is popular so I don't like it"

>> No.1324641

>>1324630
I'd believe that the general implication here is that there are other games more deserving of the attention and praise that gets heaped on CT, and that there's a double standard in order - because while an audiovisually oriented retro game like CT gets much love, an audiovisually oriented modern game would get shat on completely because "lol nogame enjoy ur movee".

>> No.1324652

>>1324641
>"lol nogame enjoy ur movee".
That's normal for JRPGs, so if you're judging by JRPG standards you can't complain about it.

>> No.1324661

>>1324652
Well CT is no different. Why should it be getting less shit then?

>> No.1324676

>>1322543

Fuck you, i love it.

>> No.1324685

>>1324676
Being overrated doesn't mean you have to hate it.

>> No.1324747

>>1324685
>Being overrated doesn't mean you have to hate it.
Couldn't have said it better myself.

>> No.1324914

>>1324641
>>1324661
But CT wasn't even that 'audiovisually' oriented for the time, if by that you mean is more cutscenes.

>>1324685
>>1324747
True, but if you look over this thread it has basically been about shitting on CT and talking about how nearly every other RPG that gen is better. What's more is comparing it to the likes of FFIV/VI or such, neither of which are considered especially bad.

>> No.1324917

>>1324676
OP here. I never said I hated it. I just thought it was subpar compared to its contemporaries. That and I found it to be a disappointing experience.

>> No.1324919

>>1322543

Rather have an easy straightforward RPG with fun sidequests instead of fucking collectibles hunting with bullshit drops for crafting.

>> No.1324923

/vr/ home of the shitpost

the entire thread was over on post #2 but I guess you guys just like to keep the shitball rolling

hey I know, lets discuss which modern fallout game is better

later, we can try to figure out why people think you are a nerd in real life, and how that is a completely unfair characterization

>> No.1324925

>>>1322972
>I forgot to mention that CT's story and characters are subpar.

Welp, almost made it half-way through this thread. I'm almost positive most of you are trolling now.

>> No.1324926
File: 50 KB, 625x626, 1386371844221.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1324926

>>1324923
>Pic related.

>> No.1324929

>>1324923
Are you upset, Chrono Nigger?

>> No.1324934

anything at all I disagree with is bait

I mean its obvious a calculated attempt to induce latent raging in others for that person's amusement, that is the only possible explanation, because I definitely disagree with it

However an entire thread devoted to the subject of 'something wasn't that good' and 'other people are partially wrong' is a meaningful discussion that should definitely not be instantly locked

>> No.1324937

>>1324934
Actually, I think the implication is that Chrono Trigger is so good that to state otherwise must be an obvious troll. That in itself is laughable, because Chrono Trigger is not that great...

>> No.1324945

>>1324914
>But CT wasn't even that 'audiovisually' oriented for the time, if by that you mean is more cutscenes.
Wrong and right. CT had some of the biggest focus on graphical presentation among RPGs up to that time. Feel free to prove me wrong, I don't think you can. Maybe Secret of Mana can compare to it, can't think of anything else.

>> No.1324954

CT's music is so unmemorable you can't tell which track is from CT and which from SoM

>> No.1324980

>>1323575
It's the best Batman movie but hardly a masterpiece.

>> No.1324984

Why are Trigger Niggers the worst fanbase on /vr/? They're /v/'s Soulsfags, but somehow actually worse.

>> No.1324989

>>1324984
Well, the main character looks like Vegeta, so they can relate to him.

>> No.1324992

>>1324929
>>1324984

Samefag

Fuck off back to /v/ with your edgy racism and retarded buzzwording.

Christ the /v/ cancer keeps spreading, I give this a board a few more months before its /v/ in everything but name.

>> No.1324994

>>1324992
Stop being so angry, Trigger Nigger.

>> No.1325008

>>1322680
>Lufia 1
>really challenging
Not really. The combat system isn't as polished as other JRPG titles, and that's the only thing that makes it somewhat difficult when starting out. I beat the game when I was six, and I'm certainly no master of strategy.

>> No.1325014
File: 31 KB, 400x347, 1381097876694.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1325014

>>1324992
>le edgy racism
Where do you think you are?

>> No.1325019

>>1324945
>graphics are good for it's time
>THIS GAME IS ALL ABOUT THE GRAPHICS THAT IS WHERE MOST OF THE FOCUS WAS
A game can look good and still have good gameplay y'know?

See, I can ignore what you just said too. What I mean is that I outright said "if by that you mean is more cutscenes."

>>1324984
Yes, how dare someone defend the game from a hatefest based largely on being jelly of the game being remembered fondly by online articles. HOW DARE THEY!

>> No.1325026

>>1325019
>A game can look good and still have good gameplay y'know?
And this entire thread is about how the gameplay in CT sucks when looked at separately from the rest. Good graphics and atmosphere can accentuate the little good there might be, but that doesn't mean that its gameplay model alone is any good. I believe a game with bad gameplay can still be enjoyable, if the game can compensate with other things, and CT does an okay job (but still could've been much better).

>> No.1325041

>>1325026
Except the gameplay from CT doesn't suck. Your apparent belief that CT is only popular due to graphics/atmosphere is quite lacking.

>> No.1325043

>>1325026
I believe the gameplay in Chrono Trigger is fine, it's just the lack of difficulty that makes the game suffer.
Double/triple techs, unique accessories, LoS and AoE attacks are all pretty sweet, but you never really need to use ANY of them. Not to mention that elemental weaknesses can largely be ignored, along with items (most JRPGs suffer from not needing to use items, though).
Unless you mean the gameplay outside of combat sucks, in which case one could argue that this is almost standard in JRPGs.

>> No.1325054

>>1325041
Then make a more compelling argument than "hurr it doesn't suck". The post below you actually sums some of the flaws quite nicely.
>>1325043
>I believe the gameplay in Chrono Trigger is fine, it's just the lack of difficulty that makes the game suffer.
Difficulty is part of gameplay.
>but you never really need to use ANY of them
That's a gameplay flaw too.
>outside of combat sucks, in which case one could argue that this is almost standard in JRPGs.
Ditto
So you've described all of the flaws of the game, pretty much indirectly said that it's an easy, flat JRPG with lots of unnecessary skills and items. Yet you insist it's fine? Why? Saying "it doesn't suck any more than other JRPGs" doesn't make CT look better, it makes JRPGs look just as bad.

>> No.1325079

>>1325054
Yes, most RPGs have easy combat with many useless skills. It's a genre flaw. Might as well start a general RPG hate thread.

>> No.1325084

>>1325079
The only cases of "hard" RPGs I've ever played come in 2 varieties: no auto-map mazes that require a bit of work to make maps. No skill required there. Or, cases of character build mattering immensely, which is binary. Either its very easy or near impossible.

Chrono isn't any "easier" than other Square games. They are all easy.

>> No.1325091
File: 14 KB, 320x200, might-and-magic-2-ss1.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1325091

>>1325079
>It's a genre flaw
Now you're just generalizing. Many RPG games do handle the gameplay portion with much more care than Chrono Trigger does. None of which get even half the praise for it that this game gets. These games have faster pacing, at least some stuff to do outside of combat and following the story path, more exploration, challenging combat, challenging puzzles.

>> No.1325094

>>1325084
>All Square games are easy

Front Mission and Vagrant Story weren't easy.

>> No.1325098

>>1325054
>it makes JRPGs look just as bad
Right. Challenging gameplay isn't exactly what JRPGs are known for, so knocking one of the top games in the genre for having shallow gameplay is like knocking a fighting game for having a shallow plot.
Is it a valid criticism? Certainly.
Is it enough to argue that one of the top games in the genre doesn't belong near the top anymore? No.

>>1325079
A general JRPG hate thread, perhaps.

>> No.1325112

>>1325098
>is like knocking a fighting game for having a shallow plot.
1. Plot isn't nearly as elementary for a good game as gameplay is.
2. Some fighting games actually have plot that could be viewed as good. Some people praise Mortal Kombat for the plot actually.
>Is it a valid criticism? Certainly.
No arguing that. What is your point right now?
>Is it enough to argue that one of the top games in the genre doesn't belong near the top anymore? No.
If we were to argue that good gameplay is crucial for a game to be considered good, then it's absolutely enough. To avoid a bigger shitstorm I took a more neutral stance and "merely" stated that the reasons why CT is "at the top" don't really include its base gameplay. I'm not OP, by the way.
>A general JRPG hate thread, perhaps.
Most SaGa games are actually good, though. Better than CT, if you ask me.

>> No.1325125

>>1325054
Except your argument is "HURR IT'S TOO EASY!" Hope you can see me from atop that high horse.

There's more to gameplay than difficulty, y'know?

>> No.1325130

>>1325125
>There's more to gameplay than difficulty, y'know?
And CT takes advantage of very little of that.

>> No.1325141

>>1325091
Admittedly, I only played the usual shit most people played. Darklands, Fallout 1&2, Arcanum, Planescape, BG 1&2, V:TMB, etc. All of them except Darklands were easy.

>> No.1325149

>>1325112
>base gameplay
Would you mind elaborating a bit on your idea of what gameplay is?

>> No.1325150

>>1325141
BG 1&2 can get pretty challenging at times, actually. Certainly more than Chrono Trigger. And via character customization, multiclassing and C&C focus in quests it also allows for a wider palette of ways to play, therefore expanding its replay value.

>> No.1325151

>>1325149
"Base gameplay" in this case I consider the status of a game if we look at things like graphics, sound, plot, characters etc. as irrelevant. Pretty much mechanics, pacing and variety of the game.

>> No.1325154

Objectively better SNES RPGs than CT: Lufia 2, SMRPG

>> No.1325184

>>1325154
SMRPG added a lot more interaction during battles. That alone makes the gameplay better than CT.

>> No.1325201

>>1325151
>mechanics
You already shrugged off the battle mechanics simply because the game is too easy, so what other mechanics could you mean?
>pacing
I'm not sure how this could be seen as a negative aspect in Trigger.
You go from A to B without having to backtrack much, if at all, along the way you encounter enough enemies to be properly leveled for the next boss, and then you're sent off to the next area.
>variety
Variety of..?

>> No.1325206

>>1325201
Can't be monsters.

Almost everything is a recolor of the like 12 basic monsters. Toriyama was so damn lazy for this game.

>> No.1325228

>>1325206
Funny, cause looking at all the enemies there are around 50ish different designs, not counting bosses.

>> No.1325235
File: 16 KB, 55x424, rN9TRqB.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1325235

>trigger
>variety

Even Mortal Kombat wouldn't be so shameless.

>> No.1325242

>>1325201
>You already shrugged off the battle mechanics simply because the game is too easy, so what other mechanics could you mean?
The easiness has its own causes. For example, the battle choices alone are unbalanced. Double/triple techs are in general worse options than solo attacking, so there's no practical reason to ever use them. Mechanicswise, the game doesn't give you any incentive to use them. Besides "how cool they look", and that is related to graphics - which brings me back to my original point, that CT is mainly liked because of audiovisuals.
For a game in which the main focus of gameplay is combat, CT has pretty lousy combat design.
>pacing
It's not. CT has pretty good pacing. It varies plot points, environments (graphics) and enemy encounters at a satisfactory, even brisk rate. This is actually one of the game's strengths.
>variety
Enemy encounters from a tactical sense, variety in play styles, in ways to play the game (nonlinearity, customization etc.), in things to find and/or miss within the game (exploration)... if we include graphics, then variety in evironments, variety in enemy visual designs...

>> No.1325253

>>1325201
>>1325242
>solo attacking
Should've said solo techs, else somebody sensitive might call me out.

>> No.1325267

>>1325253
Shit even solo attacking. Late game gives you so many great weapons just for advancing the story.

>> No.1325286

>>1322618
CT has a hard mod called Lavos' Awakening. A playlist of the mod can be found here http://www.youtube.com/user/LunaticScreamer/videos?flow=grid&view=1.. Just type it into google to find the mod itself. Something to keep in mind about the difficulty of classic jRPGs is that for the most part they are designed so children can beat them as children are the target audience for such games. That isn't to say that they can't be enjoyed by adults, but you are not going to find such games having the same depth to them as game whose target audience is more mature (e.g. 4X games, rouges, etc). Pokemon is one of the few games series I know that can target both mature and young audiences by having the main game being easy for young player while having the metagame being aimed for older players to excel at.

>> No.1325310

>>1325206
To be fair, they're all animated. FF monsters are static, so it's easier to make more. And even then, there's plenty of recolours. Still pretty lazy though. Getting Toriyama to do the designs was a big mistake. How that man keeps getting work is beyond me.

>> No.1325330

>>1325310
He's king shit in japan man. Everyone slobs on his knob because what his work is associated with.

Even before dragon ball the guy was famous.

>> No.1325348

>>1325310
He has a distinctive style and Japan has a habit of being consistent in their illustrators and composers. That and he's quite varied when he does monster designs, but at the same time you can tell it was done by him. Same way you can tell that the mecha designs in ZOE were done by the same guy who did the Metal Gear Solid mechs.

He's rather mediocre, but he's recognizable.

>> No.1325354

I dunno. The characters in CT are way more distinctive than characters in say, Dragon Ball Z.

>> No.1325363

>>1325354
>inb4 GOOD MORNING CRONO

>> No.1325370

>>1325354
It's all a ruse man.

Anime in general is occupied by same face even if not done by the same artist.

And it's not like toriyama was the first to do it either.

>> No.1325403

>>1325354
Because you can't see the same faces outside the status screen.

>> No.1325414

>>1322729
Earthbound is a very personal game. People mostly praise it out of nostalgia. A lot of kids were introduced to RPGs through Earthbound, myself included. It's my favorite game, actually. Not because it's a masterpiece or because it has an amazing story or gameplay, but because when I play it, I feel like a kid again.

>> No.1325715
File: 40 KB, 460x500, 1389224865503.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1325715

>> No.1326335

>>1325715
Faggit

>> No.1326492

>>1325414
Honesty at its best. OP here btw. I wish people could admit the Samar about CT. All I was ever trying to say is that CT is not the masterpiece it's made out to be

>> No.1326824

>>1326492
Yes it is.

>> No.1326835

>>1326824
/end thread

>> No.1326942
File: 52 KB, 500x500, walking mystic head.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1326942

>>1325354
CT rips off from DB and Dr. Slump too, not just DBZ.

>> No.1326950

I started CT and Tales of Phantasia at the same time recently, I like ToP a lot more.

Although CT is a lot better than the previous SNES RPG I played (BoFII)

>> No.1326971

>>1325310
>hating on Toriyama monster design

Literal faggot

>> No.1327058

>>1326971
ALL THREE OF THEM