/vr/ - Retro Games

It has a good aesthetic and great music. Very atmospheric game; I've always thought so.

I don't really care for the combat though. And the low framerate has always bothered me.

I loved the open plan map, plenty to explore, side games are fun, characters were rad. I liked is aesthetically, I spent so many hours smoking blunts and playing this game. When it came out, it was mind blowing. The standard of super nintendo/ps one/dreamcast games was heavily influenced by it. Personally, sometimes the camera to character angles were a bit annoying but other than that I love this game.

>>1320989
are you the same OP who hates sonic CD?

>>1320989
Well, I guess its time to take my tolerance break from 4chan for a while.>>1320989

>>1320998
>The standard of super nintendo games was heavily influenced by it.

wat

first amazing 3D attempt for Zelda and a milestone because of that. sure, it should be taken out of context like you want to make this thread about it but it can't be denied and for such an early 3D game, regardless of its zelda history behind it, it was pretty damn impressive.

i remember when i was a teenager and thought majora's mask was better

lol

>>1320989
What makes it dull? Remember, compare it to games around the same time of the same genre

Temples were good, gameplay was solid, I don't really have any complaints about it. It wasn't 10/10, not even one of my top 10 video games, but it was still a graet game.

>>1320993
>atmospheric

That word means nothing.

>>1321014
...why is OoT better?
I like MM better for the atmosphere, and honestly I loved side quests, and being a Goron and Zora was amazing.
OoT had better temples though.
I'd say the bosses are comparable.

so Op are you saying you like a link to the past better then OOT? Coming from LTTP into OOT the first thing that got to me were the graphics omg those graphics at that time. Exploring a huge world not to say there isn't plenty to explore in LTTP but OOT didn't dissapoint. The side quests and weapons were awesome. The story imo was the best zelda plot up to that point. The child adult link in 2 worlds future past was pretty cool once again not unlike the 2 worlds in LTTP. I guess come to think of it it was alot similar to LTTP in many ways only bigger better and more bad ass

I personally like the atmosphere and the OST. I feel the combat is competent enough, great dungeon design, a good amount of world to explore and some great boss fights.

>>1321023
Your shitpost means nothing.

>>1321017
>Remember, compare it to games around the same time of the same genre

As someone who loves the game I think you're totally wrong. I don't judge games in a vaccum, I think an old game can still be incredible compared to newer games and OoT is one of them.

Games don't automatically get better as time goes on. It's not like books, movies or paintings have to be compared to their time period only, so why do people think it does for games?

>>1321017
>compare it to games around the same time of the same genre

Fuck that, Ocarina is a much better game when compared to Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword.

>>1321034
I didn't say it can't be compared, but there were limitations back then that we don't have nearly to the same extent now. It was an early 3D game and I think it's unfair.
In my mind it's like comparing using a computer and the internet now compared to computers and the internet in the 90's.

>>1321037
Woahwoahwoah, that's because it IS a much better game. I'm not saying compare it to later Zelda titles.

In my opinion, It was a decent game at best. It was extremely buggy, controls were sub par, Navi was an annoying cunt, Dungeons were forgettable, and the special weapons were mostly useless.

It was fun in it's own right, however more than any sequel before it, it lost the sense of exploration, and discovery that previous games were known for, and replaced it with linearity. Every 3D Zelda game to follow suffered the same fate, they became more and more linear, and full of cutscenes, and less and less about exploring and finding alternate routes. IMHO, the 3D zelda games would have been much better off as a different game series all together.

If you want a good look at how to improve on the classic Zelda formula, look at LBW, it hits the nail right on the head.

>>1321037

not on topic, or retro, but twilight princess and skyward sword are better than wind waker...

I actually think OoT hasn't "aged" at all.

People only think it "aged" because of its low-res 3D graphics. The hivemind has decided those graphics don't "age" well and that they don't look good. What makes them so correct? Just because they don't like aesthetically appealing in the traditional sense, that does not make them bad. That's like calling music that doesn't make use of pleasant, easy sounds bad.

OoT is a GREAT looking game in my opinion.

>>1321046
>it lost the sense of exploration

I don't understand why people group Zelda and exploration. To me the only Zelda that was about exploration was Zelda 1.

For the rest, they really aren't about exploration at all. The worlds in Zelda are a weird combination of being open but strangely linear and basic at the same time. It's hard to say it's about exploration since the heavy use of items means you can only access areas and events at certain times.

Yes, OoT doesn't have great "exploration", but so what? Most Zeldas don't. MM doesn't really have any but it's a fantastic game.

>>1321034
>Games don't automatically get better as time goes on. It's not like books, movies or paintings have to be compared to their time period only

Why does this apply to "art" and not games?

>>1321063

Yes, why? It shouldn't.

It does for a lot of people, because they judge games as products first and art second. They think that better technology automatically equals better features and aesthetics, which isn't true.

>>1321063
>Why does this apply to "art"
>It's not like books, movies or paintings

>>1321058
Zelda 1, and 2 had open exploration. LttP was pretty much open once you beat the first temple of the dark world.

OoT was linear as fuck, MM was a bit more open ended (which is why I prefer it to OoT, despite the issues I had with OoT not having been fixed), WW was fairly open, but still "gated" to the story. The one biggest thing that ended up making Zelda lose it's classic explorative feel was the introduction of cutscenes. Having the cutscene triggers in place meant you had to follow a linear path to complete the game, which in itself doesn't do well with the feel of classic Zelda games.

TLDR: Either you like the linear, story driven nature of the games, and prefer the newer 3D ones, or you like the explorative, and open ended nature of the classic games/LBW, the games aren't comparable because the later games strayed away from what made them unique.

>>1321092
>TLDR: Either you like the linear, story driven nature of the games, and prefer the newer 3D ones, or you like the explorative, and open ended nature of the classic games/LBW

Or you could like both.

>>1321101
You could, but as I said before, they are not comparable as one concise series because, well, they aren't.

Things I enjoy about OoT that have nothing to do with the game's influence:

-Extremely memorable, diverse dungeons with compelling puzzles and amazing atmospheres. What's so good about the temples is that some of them are puzzles as a whole; it's not just a series of rooms but you kind of have to "put it all together"; collecting the poes, raising or lowering the water level...All of them feel very different and, again, very memorable atmospheres. Forest Temple is amazing with its eerie, castle ambiance and the Spirit Temple has that "edge of the world" feeling.

-I think the world of Hyrule is incredibly designed. It's pretty large, but also small enough where you can memorize every nook and cranny. It all feels truly connected and logical despite the areas being very different from another. Despite the NPCs being pretty static, it still feels like a breathing world with an ecosystem of its own; I can imagine and give life to the world. I like all the small little touches like Zora's River, the waterfall in Gerudo Valley, how the River flows throughout Hyrule, all the little areas in Lost Woods...

-Very engaging controls. Link feels agile with a wide set of moves, and it's all really easy to do. I sometimes think it's fun to do a bunch of flips and stuff. This may sound strange but it really feels like you're controlling a real person and not some stiff swordsman.

-Very beautiful aesthetics and music. I don't think they look bad or have aged at all, the game still has an art style that is very compelling in my opinion. Lots of interesting lighting too especially in the temples.

-The storyling is a pretty basic good vs. evil, but I love how it's done, because it feels very spiritual with constant references to the gods. To me this is pretty much the quintessential good vs. evil, hero of destiny story. I love how Link starts off as the "boy without a fairy" and he and Zelda conspire together. The last battle with Ganon, while very easy, has an extremely epic and climactic feel

Basically, I think this game is an amazing achievement that belongs with the greatest games ever made. I think it has the resonance of a timeless novel or fairy tale.

If you think it is dull, then heaven help you, that is your opinion. Even the greatest masterpieces in art, music and film have their detractors. There doesn't need to be an absolute consensus.

Just don't come here and seek to change our opinion without some detailed analysis of the game.

It has good dungeon design and overworld design (even if today it feels tiny, it's cohesive), it's evident they put a lot of effort and hard work into it so it can be enjoyed by anyone who's willing to enjoy it, I don't realy think it's a game that needs too much effort in the player's part to enjoy it once you get past the dated graphics and low frame rate. Mechanics and gameplay still feels nice and that's what matters.

I still like the game, but I agree that it hasn't aged well.

If I'm in the mood for a Zelda game, I usually play Twilight Princess.

Very cozy game. I always enjoyed watching my friends playing it, though I found it tedious to play myself. Great graphics and music really take you into the game's world. It doesn't "feel" exactly like Link to the Past, but it did feel like Zelda. Far more than Mario 64 felt like Mario.

Also, I think it still looks good. One of the very few for that console.

>>1320989

At the time of release there was quite a bit of hype about seeing Zelda in 3d. This was a big thing for several franchises of the time.

Think about when people get excited when they see a popular book turned to film. It's a bit like that.

If you don't already have a great interest in the Zelda mythos the game won't feel nearly as special.

People love Ocarina the first time they play it, assuming they don't immediently dismiss it due to the graphics.
After the 3rd time they remember where everything is and the exploration and discovery is gone there is nothing left to the game and they make a shitty post like OP

It's a great action-adventure. Amazing for it's time and still good today.
Good art direction, good music, good gameplay, very polished.

>>1320989

It's good for kids. It has a lot of shallow charm and is very easy. A lot of people played it as kids, and a lot more people don't know how to refrain from turning off the non-kid parts of their brains when they play video games. So a well-polished kids' game with good marketing and a strong gimmick (in this case, "it's the first 3D Zelda game") is generally going to be very popular.

>>1320989
I'm not a big Zelda fan (or rather, I haven't liked Zelda post-OOT much), but I do really enjoy OOT. It was obvious to me when I first got a 3DS and the remake. I expected to just be bored with it like most of the Zeldas that followed, to say that it hadn't aged well, etc. But in fact, I burned 5 hours on it without even noticing the time flow. About 50 hours later (with various imposed challenges and exploration done) I set it down and was quite satisfied with it.

I don't know how to define exactly what I like about it, but I evidently like the game a good deal.

>>1322301
I really must say your pseudo sociology is full of shit.

There are plenty of popular franchises that tried to make a 3D jump and failed miserably. The game most would agree was good.

>>1321754
I'm also certain many just kick on pj64's pre loaded cheats with their walkthrough open in another window.

>>1321004
Sonic CD had awful level design.

Anyone who says a game hasn't aged well doesn''t know anything about video games. They're the same people who say that Zelda 1 fans that they are "nostalgia fags". It's just sickening the way they judge games

Atmosphere, engaging story, great music, good dungeon design (Though possibly a bit dated in the same way Seinfeld is dated), lots of exploration, lots of secrets, lots of sidequests, solid and fluid combat system that gets more in-depth and challenging as the game progresses, pretty visuals (if you can appreciate low-poly)...

It's just a really polished, well-rounded game. If that doesn't appeal to you, then I don't know what to tell you.

>>1320989
>what is so good about it?
it's good dumb fun in an open world that can be enjoyed by pretty much anyone regardless of age

What's not to like? In an age where most game companies were floundering with their abysmal attempts at making fully 3D mechanics, Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time came and made archetypes which not only changed the way 3D games were made, but still live up to this day as some of the most crisp and complete ones out there. Well, OK, OoT's nowhere near the level of Mario 64, but it was still a prime archetype and certainly hasn't aged poorly (besides the N64 controllers themselves).

Sure it's been surpassed in pretty much every aspect imaginable, but let's be perfectly honest here, every game from that transitional era has.

>>132243
Well said!

>>1322451
>Sure it's been surpassed in pretty much every aspect imaginable

How do you figure? I don't think that's true at all.

>>1322416
>good dungeon design (Though possibly a bit dated in the same way Seinfeld is

I don't think the dungeon design is dated. If anything it feels amazingly fresh today. I don't understand how you can call a design dated. It's like calling levels in Super Mario Bros. dated, it just doesn't make sense to me at all.

In my opinion calling it "amazing for its time" or similar things is a backhanded complement because you are sort of implying its worthless in today's day and age.

>>1320989
It was very impressive compared to other games at the times. I made a seamless transition from 2D to 3D. It was revolutionary for its day and set trends that would be implemented in games for generations to come.

But it's also overrated and far from the Greatest Game of All Time like the fanboys would have you believe. Aside from how revolutionary OOT was back in the 90s, I seriously don't know how anyone could honestly believe that the Zelda games are still better than actual RPGs - including turn-based RPGS like Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest and Shin Megami Tensei.

>>1322505
Well, given that Zelda isn't even the same fucking genre as any of those games, I'd say its entirely a matter of taste.

Good pacing, atmosphere, and story.
Also, the dungeon design, while not that special, was still pretty solid..

OoT's biggest problem is that it's too easy. There is just no difficulty with the combat whatsoever. It's based on patterns, so you pretty much just wait and strike. There's no sense of tension, difficulty and it doesn't require facility with the controller at all.

>>1321092
>2 had open exploration

Wrong.

>you need the candle from the first palace to reach the second, unless you've completely memorized the caves
>you need you need the glove from the second dungeon to clear the third
>you need the raft from the third dungeon to get to the fourth
>you need the boots from the fourth dungeon to reach the fifth
>you need the whistle from the fifth dungeon to access the sixth

The only Zelda game with "exploration" is the first. Let's all stop pretending that it's some sort of sacred cow staple of the series that defines a "true Zelda game" because it fucking isn't.

>>1322542

Thank you. Zelda is not a series about exploration, yet everyone acts like it's an essential part of the series. It's really not.

Ocarina of Time has one of the best atmospheres of any game I've ever played. There is just something so absorbing about the world of Hyrule. And the temples really feel like you're delving deep into Hyrule's historical past; being in the Fire Temple, with its ambient chanting, feels like it was made thousands of years ago and deeply spiritual. Or the Spirit Temple, I agree with the person who said it has an edge of the world feeling and you are in an ancient pyramid. It just feels like a very spiritual game to me, where centuries of past history are apparent in Hyrule's construction. Like in the Shadow Temple, how the bloody wars of the past and evident in that dark, deathly place. Hidden underneath the peaceful veneer of the villages are centuries of death.

>>1320989
It took ALttP's ideas and flawlessly implemented them into 3D while adding a decent story to the game.

I'm just gonna throw this out there.

Is OoT 3D better than the N64 version?

>I don't know why everybody thinks Super Mario Brothers is so great. New Super Mario Brothers Wii does everything better.

>>1322651
Maybe slightly, if only because the item management is better. Plus it has Master Quest.

>>1321050
I haven't really played any newer gen non-handhelds so everything still looks fine to me.

>>1322547
>Zelda is not a series about exploration, yet everyone acts like it's an essential part of the series
It should be an essential part of the series. It's a crime that it isn't.

I play it as a good refresher for memory and nostalgia.

As a game itself, it has not aged terribly well.

I switch off yearly between original and Master Quest.

I feel like it's a good refresher for my brain: how to think outside the box and apply puzzle solving logic to the real world.

I always try to run the entirety of the Gerudo training course in a certain time margin.

Perfect scores in the Archery Ranges.

I could spend hours fishing to be honest.

There's something I always find to do each time around, better, or sometimes worse. Each is a time to reflect upon it, and find out why I didn't do as good this year as last year.

Maybe that's why it's so good to me.

Well for starters, it's 3D. So there's an entirely new dimension to play in.

The music is fun and doesn't get old too fast.

Big Goron's sword was amazing after working hours for it.

Combat is obviously done better in MM, but Zelda hasn't always had the most engaging combat

>>1320989
it wasnt that revolutionary, pc games had the same and mroe stuff way back, it just introduced those elements to the mainstream via consoles

>>1321078
kinda does.
you'd be known as pretty stupid if you told anyone that NES games look better than current games.

Doesn't hold up all that great, particularly compared to Wind Waker and Skyward Sword.

While we're at it Zelda 2 > every 2D Zelda game.

>>1322936
A lot of modern games run at 30fps. Most NES games run at 60fps, so they look better.

>>1322948
>While we're at it Zelda 2 > every 2D Zelda game.

It was the best game on the NES, too.

Thread music:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XG_RgqUvhwU

>>1322936
Kind of depends on your definition of "better" and which games you're comparing. There are NES games that look a goddamn mess, just as there are modern ones. To just generalize and say "X games look better than Y games" is kinda silly.

We live in an age where people unironically think that Zelda 2 is a great game. Just what went wrong with this world.

>>1322936
The question is never whether they look worse, it's whether your modern experience has ruined your ability to enjoy them. At least that's what every complaint I've ever seen equates to.

>>1322986
I've never been a fan of Zelda 2 but compared to recent Zeldas it kind of is

>>1322994
Same. I'd take Zelda 2 over SS any day.

>>1322994
>but compared to recent Zeldas it kind of is

ALBW is great.

Oracle of Seasons is still the best, though.

>>1322986
It is a great game. Grow up and stop thinking your shitty 3d N64 garbage is good.

>>1322986
It's difficult without being unfair and it's satisfying as all hell.

You have to draw maps and the game rewards you for developing strategies against the tough enemies.

It's a great game.

I think Zelda is cursed to be forever cursed to be argued over. All the games have different pros and cons and appeals so different people like different installments and they're accessible enough for most people to play them. Because of this no one can decide which instalment is the best.

>>1323012
>You have to draw maps

What? No you don't. This ain't Wizardry or Metroid.

You people really need to quit overhyping Zelda II's difficulty.

>>1322993
no, that is completely irrelevant
aesthetically, just about any modern game will look better than a lot of older games.

that doesn't mean that old games look bad per say, it means that newer games look better because they have the ability to.

>>1322936

Super Mario Bros. definitely has a better looking art style than New Super Mario Bros. in my opinion.

Ocarina of time is a game you have to let yourself get lost in. It's obviously not very challenging for a video game veteran so the video game veteran will end up rushing through the game without really experiencing the world within the game. When I played it I was not very good at video games so I spent a lot of time wandering around and just looking at things. I think this definitely helped me appreciate the atmosphere a lot more than I would have had I played it today.

If you look at it like a video game, you will find that it's actually rather barebones. If you look at it like an adventure then you might find the same thing, or you might end up appreciating the polish and overall design. It's hard to describe how it left its mark on my memory but it did so really well. Overall there isn't another adventure game quite like it. It's one of the only Action/Adventure games I can think of that sticks to high fantasy instead of opting for low fantasy.

>>1322948

I swear that Wind Waker is on its way to becoming the most overrated game of all time, and I say that being totally serious. It's one of the most boring games I've ever played yet almost everyone seems to hail it as some masterpiece.

>>1323049
It's bad, but don't forget that we live in a world where Final Fantasy is a thing

I wonder how this "Zelda 2 is bad" meme came about. I distinctly recall Zelda 2 both selling extremely well, getting good reviews, and everybody writing into NES magazines saying how much they like it.

>>1323057

It's the only sidescrolling Zelda in the main series, so it really sticks out.

Plus it's really hard so most people don't get past the first/second dungeon and bitch about it.

>>1323049
>overrated
Do you not remember the heated anger over the game's artstyle when it was initially released?

If Wind Waker seems overrated now it's only because people are finally taking the game seriously instead of criticizing how it looks.

>>1323057
It's too hard for millenials and the graphic design is pretty shit. Not surprising how it has a bad rep.

>>1323064

That was short lived. When the game actually came out critics totally adored it. And over time it has received intense love, more than any other Zelda game.

People are doing more than taking it seriously, they are treating it like a masterpiece. It's time for people to stop saying "nostalgia goggles" to OoT fans, because it probably applies to Wind Waker more at this point.

>>1323049
All opinions are valid, but yours is wrong.

>>1323069
What is wrong with it being a masterpiece? Do you have any real criticism for the game besides it being boring for you?

I personally think the mechanics are very solid.

>>1323069
>critics totally adored it.
Didn't stop the fanbase from shitting on it constantly.

>>1323076
Not him but I think the game could have been better. You can tell in certain areas the game really isn't finished. The whole thing was rushed and they never implemented a lot of features that they wanted to. According to the Hyrule historia they cut several islands and areas (One artwork seems to imply that all of sunken hyrule was going to be explorable at one point) and NPCs that were cut early on in development.

>>1323076

It is an utter slog of a came, no challenge at all, and it hardly ever feels like more than a chore. One of the most dull, mundane experiences I've had in gaming because it has the pace of a snail. Amazing presentation, but that's all it has going for it. It's a very short main quest but somehow feels very long at the same time, as if you can't wait for it to end. As one other reviewer pointed out and I agree with, it is "the world's slowest moving locomotive".

For all the complains about TP and SS, at least they had some moments and feelings of excitement and intrigue.

>>1323076

story is lame and makes no sense, the dungeon design is bad, SAILING, E-Z mode parry combat system, second half of the game is unfinished and thrown together

>>1323076

What MAKES it a masterpiece? It's like people saw it was a Zelda game and just call it a masterpiece based on that.

Other than the incredible graphics, I don't see anything it has going for it.

>>1323085
>story is lame and makes no sense,
What?

>>1320989
Eh, dunno. I don't care if it was acclaimed and what not, I love the atmosphere of the game, and so more the atmosphere from MM.

>>1323093
all a game needs for people to call it a masterpiece is graphics

>>1320989
This game is Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon minus platforming and everything that made it great.

>>1323081
What does that have to do with the actual content of the game? If you play the game without knowing of the things they wanted to put in it probably won't have any effect on your experience. Keep in mind that there are probably lots of things the designers want to put in any game but never get a chance to because of time or resource constraints.
>>1323084
Again your whole comment pretty much consisted of "it's boring". The pacing was fine for me and it was fine for lots of other people. This kind of game just might not be for you.
>>1323085
Did you happen to play the HD version?

>>1323101

it's easier to criticize other people's opinions

you still haven't explained why it is good

If Ocarina of Time came out after any of the other 3D Zeldas, nobody would like it at all. There is nothing special about OoT, it was only praised so highly because it was the first 3D Zelda. Shit story, shit dungeons, horrible pacing (getting the first 3 stones is a nightmare of boredom), easy as fuck, no exploration and horrible graphics.

>>1323104
Because it's gameplay isn't a horrid mess, it has no major and constant glitches, it's art style is unique even now.

>implying that Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask isn't the ultimate yin-yang of gaming, and that collectively they don't make up the greatest experience in gaming history

>>1323020
>aesthetically, just about any modern game will look better than a lot of older games.
>that doesn't mean that old games look bad per say, it means that newer games look better because they have the ability to.
They will look good, yes, but not necessarily better. I still think Diablo 2's art looks way better than most modern games. So many indie games have good art while going for a simple or even retro look (Hotline Miami, for example). Technology level has almost nothing to do with art design, and beautiful games have come from almost every generation of video games.

>>1323108
twilight princess was a crappier ocarina and people still like it, please keep your trolls logically consistent

>>1323124

TP is one of the better 3D Zeldas, Zelda fans only hate it because they don't like Zeldas with a focus on dungeons - hench why they love MM and WW so much

>>1323104
>>1323093
For one I think the original design is actually fantastic, an aspect they ruined in the HD version by applying a terrible shader. The game definitely has a slow start as it streamlines your exploration in order to stick to the story but once you knock down the first two dungeons the game opens up to a world filled with content. At this point you are pretty much free to do what you want in this world and the objectives are your own. Nearly ever square has an island hiding something unique and the ocean is filled with perils. The few towns that exist are filled with unique sidequests as well. Without prior knowledge you might spend hours on windfall before you can complete everything there is to do there. You will definitely spend a few weeks playing the game before you've explored the whole ocean to its fullest extent.

Yes it is "easy" but that has nothing to do with the experience it delivers. It is a fantastic adventure all on its own.

>>1323130
>Zelda fans only hate it because they don't like Zeldas with a focus on dungeons
Explains why everyone hates SS so much.The whole game is a dungeon except for the skyworld.

>>1323130
I like TP the best of all 3D Zeldas.

>>1323132

In my opinion exploring in Wind Waker is a total bore because it really feels like there is no reason to do it. The islands themselves really aren't that interesting and the rewards are so meager. The game is easy as fuck anyway so who cares about a heart piece? The only reason to get it is for completion sake, there is no joy in doing the task itself. That's why the game IS like a chore, because it's doing a bunch of things that aren't fun to do over ad over.

I agree that sometimes the towns are cool; Windfall Island is probably the best part of the game, interacting with the villagers and getting to know them. But, for all its islands, WW has an odd lack of towns and NPCs. Aside from Windfall is feels like there's hardly any civilization at all aside from the few things to do on Outset and Dragon Roost.

And the dungeons are some of the most uninspired and mundane in the entire series, and switching back and forth between your partner in the latter temples is very tedious. And I think because easy ABSOLUTELY has to do with the experience...Because it is so easy, there is really no sense of excitement, tension or a feeling that you overcome something. The easy difficulty again makes it feel like a chore because you're just going through the motions.

>>1323135
I do too.

>atmosphere

That's all people have to say for why OoT is good. What does "atmosphere" even mean? I feel like it's very faint praise that hardly means anything. It's just another way of saying "it's cool". They can't seem to actually describe what makes the atmosphere so compelling.

>>1323134
I like TP a lot and I do not mind a Zelda focused on dungeons at all. However, the problem with Skyward Sword was that the dungeons are easy, boring, unatmospheric shit, and I like completing sidequests and minigames in Zelda, so when the collection bullshit was introduced I felt like I wanted to complete it, but it was horrible and shitty. That last thing is obviously my problem, but you know, whatever. I still hate it because of that.

>>1323145
I don't understand why so many people are shitting on the word "atmospheric." It's what happens when the non-gameplay parts of a game come together to create a convincing, albeit fictional, environment. There, can we please stop bitching about semantics?

>>1323147
>unatmospheric
I disagree, they were atmospheric as fuck.
The biggest problems I think are with it are the less than disteable controls, Fi, and the easiness. If it had TP control it would have easily been one of the best Zeldas.

>>1323145

it's the scope of the game

the feeling it has a whole

games like wind waker are short sighted and don't have an overarching feeling / emotion

>>1323145
Describing atmosphere is like trying to describe the color red.

To give an example of atmosphere I would point you to the little light bugs that float around Kokiri forest, the layout of the lost woods and the illusion it creates, the faint sound of a hidden gold skulluta, that feeling of the unkown when entering a new area.

If you can't appreciate these things then you probably won't enjoy Ocarina of Time. That simple.

>>1323156
I actually didn't have that big of a problem with the controls, but as I was walking around the various areas, I would notice incredibly obvious "COME BACK HERE LATER WITH THE HOOKSHOT FOR MAD LOOTS BRO" spots littered throughout. It was like they were trying to make a Metroid game only way less subtle and with less meaningful rewards. That pretty much killed all atmosphere for me any time I noticed that.

>>1323157
>games like wind waker are short sighted and don't have an overarching feeling / emotion

Really?

>>1323145

As cheesy as it might sound atmosphere, to me, it sort of the "feeling" it gives me and how all the elements combine to leave an impression.

Take the fishing pond for instance. A very calming atmosphere, because its closed off from the rest of hyrule, really calm color scheme and uses the theme from kakariko. it feels like you can be in there forever and just relax. or the Forest Temple....Rather dark and eerie, feels like a castle, and it feels like the first "real" dungeon of the game, and I think that was intentional. They wanted the first dungeon as an adult to really leave an impression, and it does. Everything about it is way more sophisticated than the child dungeons, with winding corridors, a music of creepy voices that is actually somewhat melodic and a nice courtyard and opening room that make it feel as if the forests has overtaken the castle

>>1323145

atmosphere is basically just how everything comes together. like how all the sounds in a piece of music create an atmosphere. the word is closely related to "mood". an eerie atmosphere, a calm atmosphere, a tense atmosphere, etc.

>>1323057
>meme

I wonder how idiots misuing words came about.

>>1323141
>rewards
Why do there have to be rewards? The whole point of a reward system is to motivate you to do something you otherwise wouldn't.

You're right that there does seem like a lack of civilization but that is a major plot point of the game. You should also take note that most Zelda games have about the same amount of civilization present.

>And I think because easy ABSOLUTELY has to do with the experience

It certainly does, but I don't think most people play Zelda for a ballbusting challenge. 3D Zelda is more about fair challenge which is why all the bosses have phases rather than a flat health bar.

All your points seem to be based around the fact that you have no motivation to play the game. The pacing definitely isn't right for you but I don't think that is a proper criticism for the game itself. A good game cannot please a universal audience.

>>1323173
Actually, a meme is just an idea that spreads within a culture. So he's correct in his usage of the word. Meme meant something different for a long time before it meant "stupid internet joke," anon.

>>1323184

It's still incorrect.

That makes the implication that the idea of people not liking Zelda 2 is spreading, instead of realizing that, well, maybe people just don't like the game.

It's also stupid to think that anyone disliking a game just suddenly came up out of nowhere. Go pick any random series and ask people what they think of the games. Responses will always be varied and you're always going to find people who dislike/like things. It's not really an idea spreading if people just don't like it, is it?

>>1323191
That's rather a different argument, don't you think? It's obvious by his usage of the word that he thinks that Zelda 2 was never unpopular, and is surprised to see a higher ratio of dislike-to-like when the game is mentioned.

>>1323193

Why would he think Zelda II is unpopular? It sold really well and people here won't shut up about it.

Zelda II isn't unpopular. Less popular maybe, but that doesn't make it unpopular. It's more likely a confirmation bias than anything.

>>1323181
>>1323141
>A good game cannot please a universal audience.

Actually I'd like to take that back. A good game certainly can please a universal audience. A game that does so probably has some solid fundamental mechanics.

I should have said a good game doesn't need to please a universal audience in order to be good. Niche games certainly have their appeal.

>>1323202
>Zelda II isn't unpopular. Less popular maybe, but that doesn't make it unpopular.
Wouldn't you say that the idea of disliking a popular game is spreading if one tends to witness it more often?
>>1323194
>Not saging your shitty post that doesn't contribute anything

>>1323013
I think link´s awakening is better

>>1323206
Not really. Spreading implies that the idea is jumping from head to head. I'm suggesting that people have always felt this way and it's just easy to spot because Zelda II is the odd man out. And also that people see Zelda II hate and chalk it up to everyone when it's probably just a confirmation bias.

BTW, sage is invisible now, so that guy might have saged, shitposting aside.

ITT: every goddamn zelda thread ever

>>1323213
Heh, my bad about the sage. I'm just speaking from the interest of perspective though. He was asking a question, so maybe "Zelda 2 haters" have been dormant, or maybe the idea is somehow picking up. It is unclear, so he proposed a discussion.
Also you're the first person who hasn't gotten tired of my Socratic bullshit in a while. Kudos.

>>1323224
Also, unless sage doesn't go into the email field anymore, seems like he put a fake email in there just to show that he hadn't saged.

>>1323219
There isn't a porn dump or a trap link dump though and it's loads more civil than the ones on /v/.

A number of people in this thread have said that, besides the NES games, or even besides the original LoZ (!), the series does not have a focus on exploration. They are objectively wrong. Pic related.

>>1323346
In Zelda 1 you could complete the triforce before you picked up a sword, enter your first dungeon with the blue ring, beat Level 2, 3, or 8 first, all kinds of crazy shit.

In ALTTP you couldn't so much as tackle a dungeon out of order until you beat 4-5 of them. There were color coded unbombable rocks and gigantic wooden posts and all kinds of inexplicable crap in your way until you found the right Pencil Eraser.

It just wasn't as bad as Link's Awakening or Ocarina.

Excellent gameplay, gorgeous designs and locations, charming narrative and characters, interesting premise, creative ideas.

>>1323436
technically, in the games you mentioned you can beat some of the dungeons in any order as long as you pick the item in there...

Like when I took the Hammer in OoT and just went to the other temples

>>1323346

I really don't think that is exploration. To me exploration is when you want to uncover a world's secrets, wander into parts unknown and when the land is teeming with mystery. But ALttP feels very mechanistic, it goes along with "item shaped locks" metaphor that has become so popular. A lot of areas are inaccessible at first and only become accessible when you get a certain item; compare that to the original Zelda were virtually the entire map is accessible from the start.

To me exploration is about freedom, about willing to make mistakes and the game not holding your hand. ALttP doesn't quite do that for me.

>>1323436
Though it's unintended, Ocarina of Time and Link's Awakening can both be sequence broken to hell and back.

>>1323346

zelda 2 is mostly on rails also

majora has sidequests that can be done out of order but the main game is sequential

>>1323069
If Wind Waker is so adored, why did it sell well below expectations? (even Nintendo admitted this, cited as the reason for TP's graphics)

Why did Wind Waker HD sell below expectations?

>>1323935
the side quests in majoras mask are terrible though. Half of them just involve showing up at a certain time and talking to npcs. They don't even have interesting rewards, usually just a heart piece or a mask that is only used once in the game.

>>1324050
The Ones in MM are more for story building. They're trying to to show you how the moon falling's effect on the people.

>>1324045
>why did it sell well below expectations?
Because it wasn't realistic. You do realize that WW was absolutely hated by everyone when it first came out because it was so unlike every other zelda before it.

Zeldas hate change.

>>1324045
>why did it sell well below expectations?
Because it wasn't realistic. You do realize that WW was absolutely hated by everyone when it first came out because it was so unlike every other zelda before it.

Zelda fans hate change.

>>1324063
So if people started liking it, why didn't it sell after launch? What about HD?

Are you sure the people who like it aren't a vocal minority of shota Link fans?

>>1324070
It did sell tons in overall sales. Just not launch sales. WWHD actually sold a lot considering it was on the WiiU.

>>1324093
No the sales were pretty dismal. 3.07 million is terrible for a Zelda game in the 21st century.

>>1324115
What the fuck are you talking about? 4 million is the average for a Call of duty game on a single console. Most nintendo games rarely brake 1 million. All three pikmin games combined don't even have 3 million.

>>1324121
>4 million is the average for a Call of duty game on a single console
Haha, more like three times that much. On a single console.

>Most nintendo games rarely brake 1 million
This is Zelda. One of Nintendo's premier series of games. And I'm not comparing Wind Waker to other Nintendo games, or other games on other platforms. I'm comparing Wind Waker to other Zelda games.

Wind Waker is the worst selling main-series console Zelda of all time.

> All three pikmin games combined don't even have 3 million.
Because it's a niche console RTS-lite series.

>>1324140
>Haha, more like three times that
On average. on a single console? no.
>One of Nintendo's premier series of games
It's actually not even in Top five behind Mario, Pokemon, Wii series, mario kart, and Wiifit.
>Wind Waker is the worst selling main-series console Zelda of all time.
That would be four swords adventure or ALBW. 4 million is average for a zelda game.
>Because it's a niche console RTS-lite series.
It's a popular niche series by nintendo that's a perfect example of your average sales for a game on a single console. Most games are lucky to sell 4 million on a single console.

>>1324115
>3.07 is terrible for a re-release on an unpopular console

What the fuck am i reading you stupid nigger? And furthermore fuck off back to /v/ with this off topic shit.

>>1324198
I think he was referring to the sales of the Gamecube version, not the HD release.

>On average. on a single console? no.
http://www.vgchartz.com/game/70716/call-of-duty-black-ops-ii/
http://www.vgchartz.com/game/44606/call-of-duty-modern-warfare-3/
http://www.vgchartz.com/game/28848/call-of-duty-modern-warfare-2/
http://www.vgchartz.com/game/44952/call-of-duty-black-ops/
VGChartz usually overestimate by a million or so, but the facts are undeniable
>It's actually not even in Top five behind Mario, Pokemon, Wii series, mario kart, and Wiifit.
Wasn't that case before Wind Waker was released. It heralded the series decent saleswise.
>That would be four swords adventure or ALBW. 4 million is average for a zelda game.
Four Swords Adventures is not a main-series game. It's a spinoff. ALBW is a handheld, not console game.
>It's a popular niche series by nintendo that's a perfect example of your average sales for a game on a single console. Most games are lucky to sell 4 million on a single console.
The only thing remarkable about Pikmin is how it continued to get sequels despite its poor sales and lack of wider interest outside the Nintendo hardcore base.


>>1324198
>What the fuck am i reading you stupid nigger?
Yeah that's what I was thinking in regard to your post, cause I was referring to the original version exclusively.

>over 3 million in sales is terrible
>ever

No. Stop. This is stupid.

3 million is great in sales for a Nintendo game. You people want to talk about the poisons CoD brought to video games? How about video game discussion, because everyone on the internet thinks that games that sold less than 10 kajillion copies are flops these days.

>>1324240
>3 million is great in sales for a Nintendo game
Of course it is. I agree with you completely.

But it doesn't change the fact that it's simply disappointing for a Zelda game (as compared to the sales of other Zelda games in its category).

>>1324227
>VGchartz
I don't know if you're trolling or not. Even still that is only four titles out of all the series on the 360 which CoD always sells the most on. It sells significantly less on most other consoles, barring the Playstation and maybe the PC. ON AVERAGE it sells around 4 million.
>Four Swords Adventures is not a main-series game
Most other sources tend to say otherwise
>ALBW is a handheld, not console game.
That makes a difference how? The oracle games, Link's awakening, as well as four swords are also on handhelds. Link's Awakening and the Oracle games are often the best rated games in the series behind OoT and a Link to the past.
>The only thing remarkable about Pikmin is how it continued to get sequels despite its poor sales
It didn't get poor sales though. It actually got better sales than most other nintendo franchises. It sold better than a lot of Kirby and Metroid titles.

I think you fail to understand that 3 million is great sales for almost any game on one console.

>>1324264
It's not though. 3 million is perfectly fine for a non-mario, non-pokemon nitnendo game.

>>1324271
>3 million is perfectly fine

3 million is perfectly fine period, unless the game had a budget the size of GTAV's.

Like I said, I don't know what's wrong with people. CoD breaks records or some shit and all of a sudden 3 million copies isn't seen as a good thing. What is wrong with you people. You'd be hard-pressed to find a game that 3 million isn't good for.

>>1324279
Mario and CoD are the only games that come to mind to get over 4 million on a single console with multiple installments.

>>1324268
>I don't know if you're trolling or not. Even still that is only four titles out of all the series on the 360 which CoD always sells the most on. It sells significantly less on most other consoles, barring the Playstation and maybe the PC. ON AVERAGE it sells around 4 million.
Incorrect. The Playstation 3 versions average around 10 million.
>Most other sources tend to say otherwise
It cannot be comparable because it's a game that has extremely expensive requirements. The game is practically worthless unless you have a GBA and a GBA Cable. Not to mention a couple of mates with the same. It's a fun game, but most people don't have all that.
>That makes a difference how?
Because it would otherwise go way into red herring territory. Wind Waker is on a console. We are talking about Wind Waker.
>It actually got better sales than most other nintendo franchises. It sold better than a lot of Kirby and Metroid titles.
I don't know much about Kirby, so I can't comment, but each of the Metroid Prime games did a LOT better than Pikmin.

>>1324319
>The Playstation 3 versions average around 10 million.
Now I know you're trolling. The 360 consistently sells more than the ps3 version of almost everything multiplat.
>The game is practically worthless unless you have a GBA and a GBA Cable.
Spinoff pokemon games have less requirements than normal pokemon games. Does that make them more mainline than them?
>Because it would otherwise go way into red herring territory.
>Wind Waker is on a console. We are talking about Wind Waker.
Were talking about Zelda in general. ALBW is a mainline Zelda game. This doesn't magically change because you say so.
>I don't know much about Kirby, so I can't comment,
You don't know much about ANY nintendo franchise or sales in general.
>Metroid Prime games did a LOT better than Pikmin
It didn't do a LOT better. It did moderately better. mostly because it was already a longstanding nintendo franchise popular in america. Pikmin sold tons considering the fact that it's a brand new IP on one of the lesser selling consoles that gen.

>INB4 more VGchartz

Influential? Oh yes it is. Basically all JRPGs released after Zelda var influenced heavily by it, WRPGs were influenced slightly.

Was probably really good for its time, I can't say. Although I find the series as a wole pretty dull.

>>1324329
>Now I know you're trolling. The 360 consistently sells more than the ps3 version of almost everything multiplat.
http://www.vgchartz.com/game/28847/call-of-duty-modern-warfare-2/
http://www.vgchartz.com/game/70715/call-of-duty-black-ops-ii/
http://www.vgchartz.com/game/44951/call-of-duty-black-ops/
http://www.vgchartz.com/game/44605/call-of-duty-modern-warfare-3/
Google is hard
>Spinoff pokemon games have less requirements than normal pokemon games. Does that make them more mainline than them?
It sure doesn't make them comparable in sales to the other games.
>Were talking about Zelda in general. ALBW is a mainline Zelda game. This doesn't magically change because you say so.
We are talking about Zelda on console in this thread. That is Ocarina of Time, Wind Waker, Majora's Mask, etc. You are dragging off-topic Zeldas into it.
>You don't know much about ANY nintendo franchise or sales in general.
I like with how much deftness you declare this, despite not being right about anything so far.

>INB4 more VGchartz
If you provide another source we can use it. I've already said that VGchartz is shit for pin-point accuracy. But it's useful for "ballpark sales".

>>1324349
>VGchartz
Stop being a retard. You're acting like your average /v/ shitposter.

>>1324329
>>1324349
Can you both just give it a rest?

>>1324351
>Stop being a retard. You're acting like your average /v/ shitposter.
Hahaha. I'm actually providing external citations for my arguments rather than talking opinions out of my ass and I'm being criticized for it. Is this bizzaro board or what?

>>1324358
>external citations
You're citing VGchartz. You arne't providing anything.

>>1324361
>You're citing VGchartz. You arne't providing anything.
Yeah cause you just suggested a better alternative source for us to use. Oh wait.

However if you insist
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/feature/13085
>"For this reason, I was still convinced the reason the Wind Waker did not perform well was because of its toon-shaded graphics style".
>...Wind Waker did not perform well...

>>1324380
you're a shit troll
>We completed work on the Japanese version of Wind Waker at the end of 2002, and at E3 2003, we announced that the North American version, which was released at the beginning of the same year, had sold up to a million copies. But the truth of the matter was that the game did not fare as well in Japan. I won’t go into exact numbers, but it was enough to show us the difference in the degree of enthusiasm between the Japanese and North American markets.
Go back to /v/ where you belong.

I think it is a great game, but Mario 64 was a much more impressive achievement.

>>1324398
What exactly is this post trying to disprove?

>>1324380
>Yeah cause you just suggested a better alternative source for us to use. Oh wait.

That's not how logic works. If all you have is shit, that doesn't make it good.

>>1321010
Still smokin those blunts I see

blew my mind when it came out. still a good game but i hate the way you have to do exploring to find cryptic clues to where to go next.

>>1324705
>have to do exploring to find cryptic clues to where to go next.
You're kidding right?
HEY. LISTEN![/spoier]

Welp, first time I played through that when I was 12 was like playing through a fairy tale. I was so immersed I used to day dream about playing that fucker in class. It was a solid game in every way, graphics, gameplay, puzzles, world, characters, dungeons, everything. It was also a huge and satisfying quest.

Kids these days don't understand because it's aged and they've played the newer versions of 3D Zelda that all took huge chunks of OoT with them so it might seem bland and uninspired now. Back then there hadn't really been anything like it before. Yeah you had the 2D Zeldas, but this was a solid transition into 3D and was a beautifully crafted game in every way. The graphics were also a huge factor as they had that wow effect and really helped with immersion.

If there hadn't been any Zelda games since OoT, all recycling the same old 3D Zelda formula that is now in desperate need of an overhaul, there's no doubt that kids who say they don't get it these days would most certainly understand it a lot better. This was the first major 3D Zelda and its formula has been rehashed over and over again.

>>1324065
>Zelda fans hate change.
???
would you say star wars fans hate change because they hated episode 1?

wind waker is as much of a zelda game as those pocket watch zelda games were

>>1324732

As someone who loves the game I think you are totally selling OoT short. I don't think it has "aged" - I personally don't believe that games age. I think it's just as great and magical now as it was when it came out. If anything, I feel like people are way too quick to dismiss it these days because "it's old!".

Also it's annoying in this thread how people are talking about sales and equating that with quality. Seriously?

>>1324736
>would you say star wars fans hate change because they hated episode 1?
What are you talking about? This would only be applicable if the Zelda series had a major dip in quality in recent installments. They've been about average. The only outright bad ones were the CD-i Games.

I think what hardly ever gets mentioned, but is essential to OoT's quality, is the world design. IMO it is one of the most cohesive and immersive worlds in gaming. Sure, there's not much to "explore", but everything about the world feels totally of its place, if that makes sense. I even like how Hyrule Field is big and open and how I can just wonder around to the outskirts, or that river beside the castle, and there's a lot of little areas that mean nothing to the main game but are there to just flesh out the world.

What I like about OoT so much is that it's very magical but also has a lot of parts about it that are very "mundane" - just random areas of not much, houses and buildings with very little in them. It really makes it feel atmospheric IMO. I think there is nothing worse than a game in which everything has an obvious, discrete purpose. Games need room to breath and OoT has that.

And, as someone else pointed out, the world is big but small enough where you can know it like the back of your hand. It's very intimate.

>>1324759
I'd say the change from "near-constant excellence" to "about average" is large enough to constitute a major dip. Worse, it took several games to slowly get there so there isn't really any place you can point at and say that's where it all went wrong.

>if you take away all the things that made the game great in the first place, what's so good about it
Jesus christ.

>>1320989
Yay another insert ____ game is overrated thread.

This hasn't been posted a million times.

You aren't forced by law to like these games you believe is overrated. Most people bashing these older games aren't putting time into the equation either. Not that age has made any of these games worst imo.

Can someone please post the video of that guy claiming OOT is a game for 90s children and that you didn't have a childhood if you didn't play it, while his eyes are rolled to the back of his head.

>>1324814
>near-constant excellenc
Are you on crack? There are so few Zelda games I would rate really high. MOST of the games are about average. They're still excellent at what they do they just aren't the amazing games you seem to think they are.

>>1324838
Damnit, someone

>>1325070
Holy fuck, what the hell am I reading? Either someone is genuinely stupid enough to believe this or someone was actually autistic enough to type this up.

What the fuck?

Most people probably disagree, but I think OoT has the best dungeons in the series. They are just so awesome.

How much text heavy is this game?

aka should I play it on Virtual Console or jap 3DS where I won't understand 80% of text

>>1325129
Ocarina? Very. If you're the sort of person who skips dialogue and heads straight for the overworld you're probably in for a bad time.

>>1325129

It's very text heavy for about the first 40% of the game

>>1325117
I think the Only Dungeon OoT had that I liked were the Water temple and the shadow temple. Even the water temple was bogged with a bad swimming mechanic. I actually think SS and TP had better dungeons.

>>1320989
You are honestly being ridiculous. It's like asking why a movie, painting, or song that was made in the 60s and pioneered techniques that would be further expanded upon to give us the movies/paintings/songs we enjoy today was good.

People like you astound me. Why is it that some people simply can not view something in context?

> Hurr OOT has nothing on modern gamez like [insert modern ARPG here]

Other then, I dunno, innovating on the entire genre and providing the foundation upon which such games are made. It's honestly like asking what the big deal with your grandfather is, and why you should give a fuck why he ever existed.

And yes, I know you're too fucking stupid to arrive at the sensible conclusion yourself (if you could, you wouldn't have made this thread) so let me spell if out for you: without your grandfather, YOU WOULDN'T FUCKING EXIST

>>1324884
>they just aren't the amazing games you think they are
What are opinions? The series in general has been rated pretty highly by most people. Just because you say it's average does not mean it's true.

>>1326071
Butthurt much?

>>1326071

I'm sorry, but judging art only at the time it was made is completely retarded. I'm not going to give something a pass, and like it more, just because it was made earlier. When you consider that a lot of older art trumps newer art, you realize that your argument makes no fucking sense.

If the only praise you can give a game is that it was influential, chances are the game is shit and that has no good qualities of its own. A truly great game will always be great. We can go and play Super Mario Bros. and find it great, we can play the original Zelda and find it great. In fact, they are superior to many video games made today.

If the only reason a game is praised is because it was influential, that means it was only praised because it did new things, and not because it did anything well. It means that people and critics were enamored with the novelty and didn't truly appreciate the quality.

>>1326269
You do realize that anyone who plays SMB or the orignal Zelda today, for the first time, think they're shit right? Hipsters and nostalgafags not withstanding.

And I never said art should be judged only by the time it was released, I said context should be considered. So many people today look at older games and say "well game X that came out 10 years later did everything that game did PLUS MORE and HAD BETTER GRAFX", which I fucking hate.

>>1326281
I think if you have played enough retro games of the 8-bit era to have immunity to the primitive style of graphics and sound, SMB is still an enjoyable game even if you didn't really play it back then.

Zelda, not so much.

>>1326281

People who say that are naive, and are judging games more as product that art.

And no, it is not true that people automatically judge SMB and the original Zelda as bad. Many people DO think they are worse just because they are old, and again, it is because they are naive. To say that only hipsters and nostalgia are people who love the game is incredibly naive as well.

As someone who played the original Zelda only 2 years ago, I think it offers a richer experience than most games in history, even ones made in the past decade. Really, the problem is in the gaming culture. Game journalism and criticism is just dismal, in fucking horrible condition. They, again, judge games as products and not art. They are suckers to new technology and "content". They don't care about individual response.

If someone says all movies from the 60s are shit, they are clearly incredibly naive. It does not mean that people who like film from the 60s are just having nostalgia.

>>1326294
I actually like Zelda 1 a lot more than SMB.

That being said, SMB is much more accessible.

To each his own, really.

>>1326302
But did you play Zelda back when it was new or did you get into it later and free of nostalgia goggles?

>>1326307

I didn't play it when it was new, but it was probably like a decade ago.

I had SMB on the NES but never got into Zelda games until later.

>>1326307

Shut the FUCK up with that nostalgia goggles bullshit. Just because someone thinks an old game is great, that does not mean they have nostalgia goggles.

The concept of "nostalgia goggles" was invented by idiotic internet retards who think that better technology almost always means a better game. It shows they truly don't understand videogames at all.

>>1326313
Not that guy. In fact, I'm the guy he's talking to.

Nostalgia goggles are definitely real. Not everything is chalked up to them, but they definitely exist.

>>1326294
You did, great. If you were born post 2000 guess what? You didn't. Your first game was Halo, and anything before the sixth generation of consoles, graphically, is composed of pure shit.

>>1326296
> People who say that are naive, and are judging games more as product that art.

100% agree.

But how exactly does the original Zelda offer a richer experience than say, Dark Souls?

>>1326330
>But how exactly does the original Zelda offer a richer experience than say, Dark Souls?

Zelda 1 is actually fun.

Don't take my post seriously. I'm not even that guy. I just couldn't get into Dark Souls and decided to have a giggle.

>>1326330
>Your first game was Halo, and anything before the sixth generation of consoles, graphically, is composed of pure shit.

That is complete horseshit. Why can't someone admire the aesthetics of older games? I'm sure many people, even young people, would say the original Super Mario Bros is far more charming looking than the utterly gross, puke looking New Super Mario Bros monstrosities.

>>1326336
Perfectly acceptable, not every game is for every person.

>>1326339
Name some. Because every young person I know, and I'm a substitute teacher, thinks otherwise.

>>1326330

It would take a long time to explain why the original Zelda is such a rich experience. First off, I consider Demon's Souls to be one of the best games of our generation, so it's not a great comparison because both games are incredible.

But compared to something, like, any of the future Zeldas, or games like GTA, Bioshock or Uncharted? Zelda 1 totally kicks their ass, because it offers a world teeming with mystery, open and supple. Still to this day it is a wholly complete experience. And this is again coming from someone who only played Zelda 1 a few years ago. It is an utterly entrancing, imaginative and challenging game. Like many others I made my own maps and notes. The combat is also surprisingly rich, requiring much facility with the controller.

Without reading the thread, I'll just answer OP. I like it because it's a fun and easy game to chill out with. A classic really.

>>1326354
I agree with you, honestly. I also think demon souls (and also dark souls) are two of the best games of this generation. However, the point I was trying to get across was that for youth today there's just so little chance for LoZ, or any retro game, to have an impact. It's sad, and what's even sadder is that there are so few games with that kind of atmosphere around today, which is why I brought up Souls, because they're the first games in a long time that have had that sort of affect on me.

Great Music, made use of everything the controller had to offer (except for the annoying memory card), provided for a long first playthrough and replayability. you could ride a horse and shoot a bow from it (you still can't fucking do this in any game)

mini games


I mean Op, maybe you aren't the kind of person that enjoys putting yourself into a world. You sound like the kind of person that can't get immersed in a book because TV and games are prettier and easier to deal with. Imagine if you were a kid and were saving the world, instead of trying to complete stuff for your vidya championship belt

>>1324279
>it doesn't change the fact that it's simply disappointing for a Zelda game (as compared to the sales of other Zelda games in its category).
3 million copies is over 1 percent of the US's population during the time period that it was sold. That's pretty fucking good

>>1321023
No word means nothing, not even the word nothing itself. What would be the point of a null word?

>>1324732
It was great, because I was 11 when I played it. I imagined young link being a few years younger than me, and Link being like 5 years older than me. It was a cool feeling. Like I felt like I could handle young link's sections, but Adult Link's world was intimidating and scary. I used to flip a shit about redeads. I panicked for the longest time.

>>1324814
and that's why the head dev said that the next zelda game they develop they are willing to play around with it, but this is /vr/, not discuss the entirety of zelda general.

>>1324756
>Also it's annoying in this thread how people are talking about sales and equating that with quality
I agree. It seems /v/ has come for a visit.

>>1327261
>3 million copies is over 1 percent of the US's population during the time period that it was sold. That's pretty fucking good
yeah but it's worldwide sales not us sales
>>1327273
>I agree. It seems /v/ has come for a visit.
using sales to measure quality isn't perfect, but it's actually the most objective form of measurement there is, since all others are based on opinions

>>1327279
That's still an impressive figure, even if it is spread throughout Europe, the US, and Japan. It's still 1 percent of America, even if 1 percent of America didn't buy the game, capiche? Everyone who voted for Gary Johnson=the amount of people that paid to play Zelda, let alone those that didn't pay because they borrowed, rented, or otherwise shared the cart.

>>1327279
It's more of a measurement of how good the marketing for the game was than of the quality of the game itself.

>>1322490

>It's like calling levels in Super Mario Bros. dated, it just doesn't make sense to me at all.

I dunno, SMB1's levels are sort of on the bland side these days because the side scrolling platformer was such a new thing back then. You can tell they got better at making levels with subsequent entries to the franchise.

It's entirely possible for something like that to be dated but I refuse to hold it against the games because a sense of perspective is necessary when enjoying the old greats.

>>1327279
>using sales to measure quality isn't perfect, but it's actually the most objective form of measurement there is, since all others are based on opinions

No it fucking isn't. How many copies a game sold is only good for literally how many copies the game sold. It says nothing for the quality or even for how much the people who bought the game enjoyed it.

>>1327294

Totally disagree with you. SMB and Lost Levels are way better than mario world or SMB3, at least in my opinion.

The latter games had more gimmicky levels with more "concepts" I suppose, but I don't think they had better designs.

>>1327291
>It's more of a measurement of how good the marketing for the game was than of the quality of the game itself.
what if you find a formula that correlates marketing spending with additional sales and subtract it from the total sales figure? would that be acceptable?
>It says nothing for the quality or even for how much the people who bought the game enjoyed it.
you could factor in how many copies the sequel sold as an indicator of how many people enjoyed the previous game (whether it did better or worse and whether it was a factor)

>>1327307
>you could factor in how many copies the sequel sold as an indicator of how many people enjoyed the previous game

No, that's stupid, too. A sequel could have received more marketing or been more improved.

I don't know if you're playing devil's advocate or not, but just stop it. Sales are not how you analyze quality.

You want to analyze quality? Analyze the game itself.

>>1327312
>You want to analyze quality? Analyze the game itself.
please find me an automaton that can objectively analyze a game and I will agree with you

>>1327306
World 1-1 in SMB1 let's you move left and right, but forces you to jump or die by goomba. It then gives you another opportunity to jump with the famous 3 ? block construction, before again, forcing you to jump over pipes. Then it presents you with a hole (that you will probably instinctually jump over), and 2 missable secrets.

Like seriously, you can't get better than that. And by the end of the first level you might have met all three of the powerups, the basic forms of 2 of the baddies from the game, and you have had an opportunity to learn about the majority of the mechanics in the game. This is why mario is a classic, you don't even have an instruction booklet, and you figure out what to do. The ? blocks flash different colors to let you know they do something.

I remember one underground level that I always had to jump through the top part, but my father could nail a squat jump across a giant expanse. I never thought I could do that. I totally figured it out, and its stuff like that that makes that game timeless.

>>1327315

There is no such thing as a game being objectively good or bad. It's all contested ground.

I don't understand why people are so hesitant to factor emotion and their individual response into the equation. What people consider "objective" is often just the dominant parties subjectivity.

>>1327324
We've just proven that video games are art, since they can't be objectively viewed

>>1322451
>In an age where most game companies were floundering with their abysmal attempts at making fully 3D mechanics, Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time came and made archetypes which not only changed the way 3D games were made

Mario 64 was really the only groundbreaking one. Ocarina of Time's mechanics lock-on mechanics had been done before in Tomb Raider. Like many Japanese games at the time, it took an American concept, polished it, and repackaged it with a new twist.

I'm completely biased on this one, OP. I love the game, so it's very difficult to look at it with a fresh pair of eyes. It would take a child to answer OP's question.

>>1327315

Hey, dipshit: Pieces of entertainment don't have to be analyzed objectively. That's why they make so much of it: because people have different tastes.

>>1327324
>>1327334
it seems to me you guys will do or say anything to downplay the usefulness at sales in any form of discourse to do with quality, which is sad

>>1327324
>I don't understand why people are so hesitant to factor emotion and their individual response into the equation.

I think you can blame /v/ and their "objectively bad/good" shitposting.

I hope there isn't anyone in this world that's stupid enough to try to analyze everything objectively. How much entertainment you get from a book, movie, song, or video game cannot be measured in the same way the laws of the universe can.

>>1327341
>it seems to me you guys will do or say anything to downplay the usefulness at sales in any form of discourse to do with quality

Because sales don't have anything to do with quality. Nothing. You want to discuss the quality at hand? Discuss the piece itself and nothing else. If OoT was locked away in a vault somewhere and no one ever played it, does that make the game bad? No. Because it's the same damn game that got released and sold millions. In my hypothetical example, they game would not have sold anything, but it's still the same game locked away in a vault.

If you tried to analyze film, literature, or music like this in a college course, you'd get laughed at by the professors and probably by your fellow students who aren't as nearly as retarded as you.

>>1327356
>Because sales don't have anything to do with quality. Nothing
sales are a barometer of public taste
you cannot exclude public taste completely from a complex discussion such as sales
>If OoT was locked away in a vault somewhere and no one ever played it, does that make the game bad? No. Because it's the same damn game that got released and sold millions. In my hypothetical example, they game would not have sold anything, but it's still the same game locked away in a vault.
you cannot just take sales numbers alone into account alone, that is very stupid, you must look at the situation and balance it. this is why I suggested a formula for weighing sales vs marketing budget should be developed
>If you tried to analyze film, literature, or music like this in a college course, you'd get laughed at by the professors
professors are not people who's opinions are more valid than anybody else
"those who can: do, those who can't: teach"

>>1327363
*from a complex discussion such as quality
sorry corrected myself

>>1327363
>sales are a barometer of public taste

Yeah, nah. Marketing.

>you cannot just take sales numbers alone into account alone, that is very stupid, you must look at the situation and balance it. this is why I suggested a formula for weighing sales vs marketing budget should be developed

Again, marketing. That alone makes your proposed formula is crap.

Not to mention you're trying to add an extra layer here: What does it matter how well the game sold? The game in my example was locked away in the vault. The public never got to it. But does this somehow make the game worse? Does the game design just disappear? Tell me how good the GAME ITSELF is. ANALYZE THE GAME, YOU MORON. THE GAME. NOT THE SALES.

>professors are not people who's opinions are more valid than anybody else

That wasn't my implication, but you're a fucking idiot so I'm not surprised you missed the point. No one worth their salt analyzes works of art, whatever they may be, by how much people liked them.

>>1327374
>Again, marketing. That alone makes your proposed formula is crap.
the image you are presenting is that the average person (and i doubt you are NOT an average person) is incapable of independent thought and marketing can sway people to buy total shit in droves over far superior products that only have slightly less marketing
it's a caricature, not based on reality
>No one worth their salt analyzes works of art, whatever they may be, by how much people liked them.
fun fact: the top playwrights and critics in shakespeare's day thought he only churned out mass market crap
turns out that shakespeare is now regarded as high quality precisely because a larger number of people were born whose parents liked shakespeare than those who didn't

>>1321023
at·mos·pher·ic
ˌatməsˈfi(ə)rik,-ˈferik/
adjective
1.
of or relating to the atmosphere of the earth or (occasionally) another planet.
"atmospheric conditions such as fog, snow, rain"
2.
creating a distinctive mood, typically of romance, mystery, or nostalgia.
"atmospheric lighting"

why do you make me disappointed in humanity?

>>1327410

Shakespeare isn't regarded so highly just because everyone loves him now. People who study poetry and literature very often say that Shakespeare is one of the best writers they've encountered. Of course, many people versed in literature disagree with theme. The point is that, for people who are really into the art form, popularity is almost never used as a standard for quality.

Almost no one really interested in music would consider Michael Jackson's Thriller among the greatest albums of all time. Some would, sure, everyone has different opinions. But sorry, public taste and sales really doesn't mean THAT much at the end of the day, especially when you consider that publishers and marketers and media-hype tries to shape public taste.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o908SWJ8ulc

it's a masterclass in level design
it has superb atmosphere and world building
an amazing soundtrack
and even if it wasn't your first zelda game it's still impressive

link's awakening is superior tho

>>1328143
the savior of online reviewing

>>1328143
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o908SWJ8ulc
I love this man so much. Such an objective review of the game.
For anyone who hasn't seen this, watch his other's too - they're all great

>>1328143
>Calling it a review
>Making it 40 minutes

Does nobody even know what the word review means anymore?

>>1328158
...I thought it meant to look at something you experienced and examine it. I don't see what time has to do with it - he does call it an in-depth review.

>>1328143
I loved this review, but a lot of the irritating mechanics he described were fixed in the 3DS remake.

>>1328143

Something about his personality annoys me. I'm not sure what it is. And no, I'm not made he's pointing out flaws, a lot of them I agree with. But he's judging the games like an "objective" reviewer with no real emotional involvement. I appreciate the quality of work and the in-depth look at the game, I just don't like his approach.

>>1328143

I think the Song of Storms was meant to be an intentional time paradox. I could be wrong about that, but it always gave me the vibe that they knew full well it was a paradox.

Do people hate the Water Temple just because of the boot-switching, or do they hate it for other reasons? The boot-switching is annoying, but aside from that I think the temple is amazing.

>>1328314
He doesn't have a problem with that, but that isn't consistent with other time travel mechanics in the game. Continuity is more important.

>>1328323
Boot switching is #1, but there's two other things I dislike about it.
I ALWAYS manage to miss a key and have to backtrack. It's always right in that boulder room with the whirlpools and shit. And the key I miss is usually one of the ones for the longshot in the main room or the one under the brick in the center pillar.
And the third, not much of it is memorable. Fighting underwater sucks, the puzzles aren't really challenging, fighting Dark Link is cool in theory but not actually fun, and HOLY SHIT walking up that thing with the spike slidy things to get to the fucking boss, fuck that.

The only parts I liked were seeing Princess Ruto and NOT having to carry her, seeing Dark Link, the part after Dark Link where you have to swim to avoid the whirlpools, and the boss itself.

>>1328323
boot switching
it's long
switching water levels could get confusing the first time through
the one key under the block in the middle pillar.

>>1328323
>Do people hate the Water Temple just because of the boot-switching, or do they hate it for other reasons? The boot-switching is annoying, but aside from that I think the temple is amazing.

It has been claimed that it is possible to "break" the game at the Water Temple by running out of keys, but I have neither experienced it nor seen any evidence to support the hearsay.

>>1328372
People just miss them. It's the easiest one to miss them in.

>>1328323
I don't hate it, but I don't love it either. Seems like every time I go through it I think "I'm not gonna miss that key this time", which I don't, but then I miss a different key. That's just my stupid ass though, I don't blame the game for that.

>>1328094
what I'm saying is popular taste will influence critical analysis over time and on a mass scale, because those experts of analysis have been influenced in their tastes in their upbringing

if your parents LOVED thriller and exposed it to you, you would be more likely to look on it favorably, and analyze it in a positive light

on a grand scale this effect would gradually translate popular taste to critical acclaim

>If you throw away almost all of the defining aspects of this game, then there's nothing good about it

What an incredibly stupid argument, just state your reasons for disliking it man.

>>1328780

I don't think you read OP's post right. Read it again.

>>1329120
>ignore the fact it's influential, critically acclaimed and introduced new aspects of gaming

>>1329141

Yeah and OP's asking you to judge it by the fucking video game and not by the history surrounding it. Is that such an absurd request?

A game may not be good anymore if instead of talking about the video game, you have to start by saying "Well back in 1998..."

>>1329151
Okay. Let's compare it to modern games, graphics are worse yes. No denying that. Sound quality too.

Almost every other thing is subjective. However length is still great even next to a game like dark siders.

The real test is if you could rename it and sell it today. I think yes.

>>1329193

Well there you go. OP might disagree with you but at least you're not being retarded anymore.

>>1329141

That has NOTHING to do with the game itself. It has to do with how people received it.

>>1329193
>Okay. Let's compare it to modern games, graphics are worse yes. No denying that. Sound quality too.

Disagree. OoT's aesthetics and music are preferable to most games today in my opinion.

OoT looks better than Call of Duty.

>>1320989
>If you throw away the fact that this game was influential, or was really critically acclaimed, or introduced new things into gaming - and just look at the game on its own terms, for what it is - then what is so good about it?
It has lots of replay value. It's unlikely that you'll find everything the first few times playing through it. And not only that, but you can make the game more challenging/interesting by exploiting the shitload of glitches that exist. You can leave the forest without a sword (crooked cart), use items as an ocarina, overwrite items with extra bottles, skip portions of dungeons, bomb hover, etc.

>>1320989

It's fun.

>>1322936

It's like, opinion, dude. If you enjoy the look of an NES game over a current game, it doesn't make you 'stupid'. It's an artistic preference.

saying shit like you just said makes you 'stupid'.

Anyone else feel like this game's graphics get too much heat? I can play OoT today and still marvel at how beautiful and atmospheric a lot of things like. The Ice Cavern, Forest Temple, Fire Temple all look outstanding in my opinion. This game has an art style that still holds up very well, just like MM.

Sure, it looks like low-res 3D. But that doesn't make it bad. I like how it's kind of a mix between a low and high fantasy look. Sometimes it looks like a fairy tale, other times it looks like just a normal medieval land. I think a lot of the lighting in this game is still really interesting. I've seen some people say this game looks like shit, and it's their opinion, but I think it looks fantastic.

I definitely prefer it over the look of say, Skyward Sword, because I think that game looks rather ugly.

>>1329535

maybe this doesnt totally apply but i read this post on here awhile ago and saved it because i liked it:

The super conscience has decided that 2D is better than 3D. If you disagree, you're wrong because that's not what the most noisy people want you to think.

The press and the "leaders", developers, publishers, LPers and influential people feels that 5th gen is bad. So the masses agree it's bad.

Saying a game aged is, USUALLY, just conforming with the super conscience. The people who effectively dictate mass taste because the masses feel aligned with them.

It's a fallacy to say that, objectively, 2D "holds up better" than 3D. But there's truth, and then there is "truth". Truth doesn't matter. "Truth" does. If the "truth" is that your games look bad, then you either agree or you're "wrong".

>>1320989
>If you throw away this game and just look at what you have left, for what it is - you have nothing!

>>1329601

There have been several posts like this in this thread, and it makes no sense to me. Throwing away acclaim and influence is NOT throwing away the entire game. We want to judge the game on its own terms.

Acclaim comes AFTER the game is released. Influence comes AFTER the game is released. What about the game itself? The gameplay, production, story, things of that nature? That is not thrown away at all when you throw away acclaim or influence.

>>1329535
>Anyone else feel like this game's graphics get too much heat? I can play OoT today and still marvel at how beautiful and atmospheric a lot of things like. The Ice Cavern, Forest Temple, Fire Temple all look outstanding in my opinion. This game has an art style that still holds up very well, just like MM.
Mostly kids obsess about graphics in old games. Older gamers don't really care too much.

What really bothers me is how much shit OoT gets for its framerate. I booted it up just before. Honestly, it's not that bad. There are very few frame-dips. I think there's a tendency to lump all N64 games in the same category of ugly blurry 3D with bad framerates, just because some popular games had ugly blurry 3D (early third party games mostly) and because some popular games had bad framerates (pretty much everything Rare did in the second half of the console's life).

>>1329641

OoT really doesn't skip a lot, but the game is slow in general. Dialogue goes at a snail's pace, and in general Link moves kinda slow. The whole game is just kinda slow. It's actually quite different from MM which feels a bit faster.

So the problem is the framerate itself feels really sloggy. A big problem with most N64 games in general is their framerates are slow, not necessarily that the framerate drops.

>>1329656
OoT is capped at 20fps. That is the reason. But at least it keeps to it, rather than veer wildly between 30 and 20.

>>1329473
You're referring to art direction. From a technical standpoint cod has better graphics.

>>1325129
I picked the game up with a Japanese 3DS when i was studying abroad last year and the Japanese isn't terribly complicated. You can make it just fine with a dictionary since it gives furigana for all the kanji.

>>1329763

Who cares if it's better from a technical standpoint? Saying so feels like a silly technicality. "This game has a faster frame rate and has more polygons, therefore it has better graphics." What a silly notion. To me how a game LOOKS and, well, feels is more important than its technicalities.

IMO, the only thing Zelda has going for it, after the first two games, is atmosphere. A lot of parts in OoT, MM, WW and TP have amazing atmosphere, but really that's all the games have going for them in my opinion. Gameplay wise they are all duller than dirt

Kokiri Village. The narrow bridges over the house.
The whole town is a great introduction level (It's quick to zoom through, yet you can spend 40 minutes exploring it), but the 2 bridges that span from Saria's House to the blue rupee is exceptional. Taking advantage of how awkward it still was to move in 3D, and how sensitive the anologue control still was, The challenge of getting up there, and the penalty of having to climb saria's house each time was an intuitive start to the game's series.

Zora River.
The best thing about influential 3D games isn't that they changed the industry, It's that the people that did that changing explored all sorts of designs in their levels. Zora's River is one of the most ridiculous level designs in any adventure game for how simple it is. These huge rocks are jutting out all over the place, there's Horse gates around for no reason, and you're jumping back and forth over this river with a flying chicken in your hands. It's crazy. it's fun. and there's plenty of little secrets in it.

Goron City.
Comfy as fuck! The inverted spiral design of the town makes the whole thing feel like a loft. And the it takes advantage of how easy it is to lose your bearings in a 3D game by making uturing starcases all over the place. The stairs are almost a circus funhouse in their design. And the Tightrope on the top floor is rewarding just to complete it.

I could go on and on about almost every area of this game. It's not just an introduction of a bunch of new game mechanics, It's an exploration of them too.

>>1324764
This is why OoT's so memorable for me, much in the same way as Megaman Legends many months before. Everything's solid, but the world-building in particular is a stand-out element that provides something for everyone. Most LoZ fans have at least one thing to like in this game, which is why rating it lower than the following games is anathema.

>>1329763

there is more to appealing graphics than # of polygons and colors

most non japanese games look terrible

>>1329813

Really interesting posts, talking about some really small parts of the game. Any other thoughts?

>>1329471
>the aspects of gaming it introduced have nothing to do with the game

>>1320989

It was a very good game. Nothing much to say, dude.

>>1322247
said everything.

Unless you just want to be edgy. But i don't think so.

>>1320989
i'm not a fan of zelda games. i don't like any of them. i find ocarina of time to be okay. so that makes me think it's probably AMAZING to a zelda fan.

>>1320989
If you throw away all the good things about any game it's gonna be shit eh?

>>1320989

Hyrule is (one of) the finest world(s) of high fantasy ever constructed. It's on a tier next to Middle Earth, Gaia from FFIX, and Discworld. That's what the people talking about "atmosphere" and "exploration" are trying to get across. Ocarina of Time is an enjoyable game to immerse oneself in.

The dungeon puzzles would still not be by any means obvious if the game were to be released as brand new today. There's a fair load of side quests. Its sound and graphics are basically unremarkable.

>>1330179
>Hyrule is (one of) the finest world(s) of high fantasy ever constructed. It's on a tier next to Middle Earth, Gaia from FFIX, and Discworld.

Oh PLEASE do shut up.

>>1330260
It is immerse, albeit small. Everything fits well together and feels connected.
I'm not sure I'd compare them to those, but it's a great world setting that was well done. Biggest downfall was Hyrule Field being mostly empty.

>>1330260

sounds like someone got the Triforce of Mad

I'm so tired of explaining this game to young people.

I have nothing else to add.

semi-polite sage

>>1323145
Trailer trash can't into atmosphere.
Go back to GTA, hillbilly.

>>1331297

he's right, you idiot. saying that something has good atmosphere is no more meaningful than saying that you like it.

>>1331685
>saying that something has good gameplay is no more meaningful than saying that you like it.
>saying that something has good controls is no more meaningful than saying that you like it.
>saying that something has good music is no more meaningful than saying that you like it.
>saying that something has good combat is no more meaningful than saying that you like it.

Or we could turn it around, since this is what the OP is:

>saying that something is overrated is no more meaningful than saying you didn't like it as much as other people did

>>1331707
>saying that something is good is no more meaningful than saying that you like it.

correct.

>>1331685
thats not true
the atmosphere can bring the conscious or unconscious mind into a to an unnusual and/or sacred place

this is something you won't find in most games nowadays, like gta, where you get a lesson in brutal behaviour instead of the spiritualy

>>1332420
>???

>>1330179
>Its sound and graphics are basically unremarkable.
B-but I still love the menu SFX like the dialog prompt and save game sounds.

A-and the gleamy effect of the stones...

>>1332450
someone was trying to say atmosphere isn't significant or something like that and its just not so

zelda is spiritually/religiously symbolic and this helps create the specific atmosphere that most games don't hold

gta is religiously symbolic aswell, buts how it operates on persons and society works a different way than the way zelda does

>>1328143
>>1328143
>The first dungeon: the Deku tree provides an excellent introduction to fans for zelda in a tree dimensional environment.

>>1320989
good music, good environments and atmosphere, fair amount of optional content to sink time into, and a very nice transition from 2D to 3D that kept a lot of what makes LttP the game that it is.

and the final battle with ganon is one of my favorite final bosses. he's not hard at all, but virtually everything else about the fight makes it so memorable: escaping the tower with Zelda, the music, the setting, fighting without the Master Sword, getting the Master Sword back with Zelda telling you to kill Ganon, and then stabbing Ganon in the head. plus, it was shocking as a kid to see blood fly out of Ganon's.

>>1320989
I loved how it influenced like four other Zelda titles. Awesome.

The dungeon design is fantastic, items are varied, boss encounters are astounding.

The game is fantastic, and this is coming from someone who things OOT is extremely overrated.

Overrated yes, but it's deserving of a lot of praise. The quality of the game is honestly higher than most titles released in recent years.

>>1321014
i loved mm too

rolling around as a goron
swimming as a zora

>>1333340
I'm starting to think Majora's Mask is becoming overrated now. Everywhere you look, people are praising it as a dark and twisted 2deep4u masterpiece, while damning OoT for whatever issues it has. MM is a damn good game, but it's not exempt from flaws either. There's a similar situation with Megaman 2 and 3.

It's probably the best game in a sub-par system

relatively speaking all the titles that came out for the N64 barely any were RPG's.
The game had good sound and color pallette.
The controls were intuitive
And there was so much shit you could do to complete the game.
The game was adventure personified in the eyes of a 12 year old boy.

>>1334676
Console capabilities are only somewhat related to game quality. The current gen is proof enough of that.

>>1322651
Technically, in the sense that it streamlines the interface, adds some bug fixes and extra layers of polish and includes both versions of the game (original and Master Quest). But ironically it actually kinda looks uglier, and it doesn't quite feel the same played on a small screen.

It's probably the most overrated game of all time, but it's still fantastic. OoT knows what game it wants to be, and it sets out to be that kind of game and succeeds phenomenally.

>>1322312

Have you played A Link Between Worlds yet? It'd say it's quite a return to form, though I still enjoyed post-OoT Zelda.

>>1337402
Nope, it's an Aonuma Zelda in classic Zelda wrapping paper.

So, do anons recommend the 3DS version? Might buy

>>1337414
It's pretty good. Ruined the atmosphere in places though

FUCK GOD DAMNIT SO FUCKING MAD
So I've never played a LoZ game and I got told LTTP was a good place to start. 2 days in and I've got like 10 hearts and a master sord, shits going good, SUDDENLY MY SAVE FILE VANISHES. Can this game quell the rage or am I doomed to this hell

>>1337629
That fucking sucks. I remember having this FF7 save where I put many hours into it and almost had it completed, and then my memory card just up and died.

As for your question, keep playing. It takes around an hour to get the Master Sword from a new file, maybe even less if you're quick. Although it sounds like you got most heart pieces in the light world, so I hope you remembered where you found them. If all else fails, use a walkthrough to get the ones that you can't remember.

I used to love that game. Looking back on it I used to enjoy the lore a lot as well as just running around the world. Also I still like the combat in that game, it's fluid enough to do the job even if it lacks the cool finishers and special moves. It just flows well and I like the variety of the enemies too. The dungeons are well put together and all have some cool mechanics and puzzles.

This is all coming from someone who hasn't played it in a few years though, I kinda burned out on it after playing it for so long. Someday I'll play it again though.

>>1320989
Yes, without the context of when it came out, it's not really that great.

The game hasn't aged well, and there was an awful lot of just plain annoying mechanics(Water Temple's raising/lowering water, timers, ect.). A lot of the content is really pretty uninspired... here's a set of dungeons that follow traditional elemental dungeons that lots of games do! You're an elf(I don't give a fuck what they call them, Hylians are basically fucking elves) and you wear green! There's a princess to rescue, and an evil prick who tries to take over the world! Yawn. While it's by no means the worst execution of these sort of concepts, I wouldn't call it the best either.
>>1323049
Wind Waker has a lot of charm once you get past the fucking obnoxious mandatory stealth mission in the early part of the game. That part was such horseshit.

It could still have been a much better game, though.

Honestly, Zelda game don't rank as my favorites in any one area or overall. They're really popular and I think the series as a whole is overrated - read, OVERRATED, not BAD. They're solid games, just not great.

>>1338903
>fails to list any games he considers great

>>1320989
I'm in the same boat OP. I've put in like 40 hours into this thing, because I wanted to know what makes it the "best game of all time" and something that people are willing to replay every month or whatever. I finished the game and didn't find squat. You could say that it was influential, but that doesn't make it a great game per se. Else Tomb Raider 1 would be equally regarded as OoT.

"You had to be there" arguments are worth utter shit. 8 out of my top 10 games are from the 90s.

Majora's Mask and A Link to the Past were the only Zelda games that really left a big impression on me. OoT was the first Zelda game I played, and yeah, it's very good, but the game as a whole felt very straightforward and repetitive, making it feel like a game of "connect the dots." I'm not even sure how to explain it.

>>1340162
>8 out of my top 10 games are from the 90s.

...which you played back in the 90's when they came out, right?

>>1320989
>If you throw away everything that made this game great, it sucks!

YOU DON'T SAY

>>1338903
>and an evil prick who tries to take over the world!
>tries

Did you, like, stop playing right after getting the Zora's Sapphire?

>>1340198
Not all of them. And even if I did, what would that change? I regularly play 80s and 90s games even today. The fact that it's still being called one of the greatest games -of all time- even in 2014 should mean that it still holds up, not that "oh it was cool when it was new but now we have better games like it". Of all time. Not 1998, not 1999. All time.

>>1320989
This is how ignorance starts. People are afraid to learn he truth so they tune it out. Which is what I'm going to do because I want to love this game.