/vr/ - Retro Games

>>1312824
just noticed sanic floats by 1px above that grass texture, thanks for ruining my childhood.

>>1312828
Knuckles moves a few pixels when he looks up.

>>1312824
Screens are generally not viewed at extreme close range and cameras tend to do a bad job of showing what's on a screen.

>>1312824
Who in their right minds use composite?

I might be more incline to make a decision when I can get a clear view of the screen from a proper distance

No Genesis model has any other outputs than composite or RF, so...

>>1312854
last I checked you could actually get RGB off the model 1

>>1312836
People who don't want to spend $50 for an RGB converter for a marginal boost in visuals.

>>1312860
As in, it has actual physical outputs for it? I don't have that model, but neither of the two newer models I have do.

I know you can get RGB picture from the Genesis, its in the OP. You can get S-Video, too.

The left is better.

:-|

>>1312862
>not having a PAL console where it comes with an RGB cable

Some games (like sonic) use the effects of a composite signal to spoof things like transparency into their games.

For example: that RGB waterfall is fucked.

I still prefer RGB

>>1312873

Anyone here know if Master System games will output an RGB if played on a Genesis equipped with a PBC and an RGB cable?

>>1312862
>People who don't want to spend $50 for an RGB converter for a marginal boost in visuals.
Confirmed for having never used an RGB monitor

>>1312998
Confirmed for not being NTSC 60Hz master race.

Go ahead, tell me with a straight face that the right is better.

>>1313008
>Being this retarded
There are NTSC monitors that will take an RGB signal. Like the Trinitron I have.

>>1313015
Almost every TV has RGB capabilities now.

inb4 CRT/LCD bullshit

>>1313026
That's component video. RGB uses different cables.

>>1313028
VGA is RGB, dumbass.

>>1313029
No, this is the RGB people talk about on /vr/.

>>1313012
I can't, I'm laughing at how anyone can think left is better.

>>1313031
Yeah, like I'm going to buy some ancient CRT TV with ports that have never been common for NTSC TV's just to get RGB.

>>1313040
Mine was $75 for a 17" screen manufactured in November of 2003 in Japan.

>>1313040
Alright well enjoy your input lag.

>>1313043
>input lag
You must have never used a recent TV if you think they have any input lag that a human being can detect.

>>1313042
Find me something in the 27" range for $100 and I'd consider it.

ITT: People who have never read a single one of our CRT threads

>>1313050
>Find me something in the 27" range for $100 and I'd consider it.
Can you find any 27" TVs outside of an off-brand at the Goodwill for less than $100, let alone monitors with a specialty input?

I just can't take it anymore...

CRT thread here.

Buy a Trinitron or other good name CRT in the size you want with component inputs for less than $20 at Goodwill.

Buy an RGB SCART cable for your console. Most support it. Yes, including Genesis. They're also less than $20

Buy a SCART-to-YUV transcoder (pic related) plus a passthrough breakout adapter because for god only knows what reason they didn't put audio channels on the transcoder. This part will cost you about $60

Now you have RGB video with no lag at the size you want. A pro monitor will have slightly better video quality but this method will knock your eyes out your head.

>>1313058
That's my point. Why should I spend more money on another TV when the modern TVs I have right now works just fine with no noticeable lag? Getting a CRT RGB capable TV in the size I want in the United States is expensive. I have a friend with an RGB TV and I've tested my Super Famicom on it with Composite and RGB. The improvement of RGB over Composite does not justify the money I'd probably have to spend to do it unless I got really lucky and just happen upon a TV.

>>1313073
I'm not the one talking about input lag. I only see input lag when I pass through my VCR or play from a capture card. Luckily, my RGB Trinitron also has a composite video out for just such a purpose.

You're the one, one the other hand, with unrealistic expectations crying about your own inability to do a quick search on Ebay. It's quite pathetic, really.

>Getting a CRT RGB capable TV in the size I want in the United States is expensive.
I live in the United States, jackass. Granted, I'm on the west coast, which shaves a few dollars off of any shipping from Japan, but there's plenty of RGB monitors available in the US. You just have to look further than here.

>>1313068
>A pro monitor will have slightly better video quality but this method will knock your eyes out your head.
How? It just takes some quick searching and it's a lot easier and sometimes even cheaper than dealing with this pass through shit.

>this thread
>>1312854
>>1312862
>>1313026
>>1313028
>>1313040
>>1313043
>what the hell /vr

>>1313097
You should have expected that when the OP starts out with a troll post.

>>1313029
No it's not actually. Scart is though. Pretty much all all european TV's have scart.

>>1313114
>VGA
>Pin 1: Red
>Pin 2: Green
>Pin 3: Blue
>Pin 13: HSync
>Pin 14: VSync
Yes, it is RGB.

>>1313114
>>1313029
VGA and scart both carry rgb signals.
The difference is the sync. Scart uses Red, Green, Blue and Sync. VGA uses Red, Green, Blue, Horizontal Sync and Vertical Sync.

Technically they are both rgb. However, when someone is referring to RGB on a retro console they are never fucking talking about a vga connection, they are talking about RGB Scart or RGBS
.

>>1313127
Good luck hooking up your old consoles with vga brah. Vga is not compatible with most vr consoles. The only exception I can think of is the dreamcast[\spoiler].

>>1313043
Jesus Christ, you guys used to bitch about emualtors having input lag, now you're bitching about original hardware having input lag?movery

>>1312854

Wrong. You just don't have the cables.

>>1313087
How is it easier? You still need to buy SCART cables and a breakout, or make one yourself even with a pro monitor. You're not going to get any pro monitor bigger than 14" for cheaper than $100 either and you still have just as much money in buying the scart cable and the time it takes to make a breakout, especially if your monitor doesn't like CSync.

>>1312824
The right is higher quality, yes.

But a lot of us don't really give a shit. I'm not going to waste time and effort doing an RGB mod to my retro consoles for a small increase in quality. I don't care about every pixel being perfect; if anything, I prefer the blur in a lot of games, especially 5th-generation ones.

I play the games the way they were typically played during the era, on a 90s TV set through composite. I never knew a single person who played their games in RGB, or even S-Video, for that matter.

Personally, I played on a hand-me-down RCA from the late 80s that only had an RF jack and no remote control. I play on that sometimes, too, now, for nostalgia's sake.

>>1313154
I've never seen a pro monitor not like csync...ever

>>1313134
SCART to VGA adapters exist. I don't see how they would be much different than a SCART to YPbPr converter.

>>1313157
This nigger just went on a rant about how he prefers RF.

>>1313171
Hardly any VGA monitors will sync to 15kHz.

>>1313154
I don't need any kind of sound breakout because the gaming cables I ordered handle audio.

>>1313157
Coaxial video is a pain in the ass to plug in and an even bigger pain in the ass to record.

My Atari 7800 and PC Engine are the only reasons I need an S-VHS VCR to record them properly, just because for machines sold in 1985 and 1987 respectively, they couldn't be bothered to have composite video.

>>1313212
>PC Engine
Why don't you have a CoreGrafx?

Well OP, even though sonic looks better on the left. The background looks way better on the left because of the blurring. Helps transition the colors better and blend.

>>1313214
Because the PC Engine was cheaper and for some reason looks just fine with coaxial video.

It also looks better as a machine, but that'd be a really stupid reason to pass it up over a Core Grafx.

I would replace it, but I would also need to clear up a composite input somewhere on my setup or get another composite switch and cable to go with it from Radio Shack.

left looks better

>>1313205
I don't really prefer it, RF is just what I grew up with and has a bit of nostalgia that goes with it.

Honestly, my ideal setup is a 32" or larger CRT hooked up with composite or S-Video. I was always jealous of my friends who had large TVs in their basements and played vidya on them. I do have a TV like that today, but getting it out of storage would be a hassle.

>>1312824
Left is far better.

>>1313210
this is correct - you need a line doubler for most monitors
but apart from the split hsync vsync split the signal is identical

>>1313129
>The difference is the sync.

More importantly the difference is that VGA is 31khz while consoles output 15khz. Most if not all TVs and monitors can't handle 15khz input, hence the need for upscalers.

I figured I'd chime in with my own video output comparison. I apologize if the screencaps in the pic are a bit slanted; my camera wasn't 100% level, and I haven't installed Photoshop on my new laptop yet to fix them. The pic should be self-explanatory otherwise.

Component video cable: Monster Component A/V Cable for Wii (purchased used; cheaper than the a brand-new official Nintendo Wii Component A/V cable!)
Composite video cable: Stock Nintendo Wii A/V Cable

My opinion: Component is much better. I still need to to get an RGB cable and an RGB->Component converter unit for my SNES.

>>1312824
Left has much better color contrast.
Right is way cleaner and generally preferable looking to me, but mildly washed out by comparison.

B-But which one is what the developers intended?????

>>1312824
They're both just as good as long as I can play them.

Though, I have no idea why you would want to remove the blur, since it makes everything not look like a slab of pixels.

I mean, compare the waterfall. One looks like blocks of cyan, and the other looks like cartoony water.

sorry if this is kinda related but i remeber there was this really cool fanmade romhack of sonic on youtube. i forget what its called but it had really amazing music. does anyone have any idea? it waas a playthrough of the entire game so it was over an hour long

>>1313212
So the reason it's easier to use your significantly more expensive pro monitor is because you only need one $50 adapter instead of a $50 adapter plus a $7 dongle in the line.

Bad choice of screenshot. Look at the title screen, and tell me the checkerboarded dithering is better than the smooth, blurred gradient

Are there different versions of S3&K with different graphics? I'm not sure how much /vr/ hates CRT filters, but here's how the game looks on my RetroArch setup. Notice the detailed waterfall.

>>1313516
You mean that detailed waterfall which isn't being shown properly?

Look harder. You can see what's behind it, unlike in the left picture in the op.

That's my only real gripe with RGB, yes it looks sharper and stuff but the developers used clever tricks to achieve certain results, and a lot of those tricks are just ruined with RGB.

>>1313526
The difference is clear to me. I'm just pointing out that the waterfall shouldn't look like "blocks of cyan".

Perhaps the shutter speed on OP's camera is to blame.

>any filtering
My god, what brain-damaged person actually wants fucking ancient CRT TV artifacts in games?

I grew up with this shit and am glad to see them gone, I don't want to use fucking filters to bring them back.

>>1313538
yes, there is a difference, but it isn't as good as the left.
There's no leaking like there should be.

ill just post this here.
all you need is a slight blur to get what devs intended you to see.
some of you guys just go overkill with filters, especially scanlines.

>>1313368
Keep in mind the Wii's composite output is much better than what most of the consoles it emulates through the VC output themselves. Try comparing an NES to your Wii with composite one of these days. The difference is astounding.

>>1313626
What filter is that?

>>1313641
cvbs
composite without extra filters

>>1313068

and /vr/ is so adamantly against something like the retron5, but will spend even more on various cables and converters to play games? seriously, i think i've figured out who's shilling who here.

>>1313665
Not to mention that in order to get RGB from an NES, you either have to take a PPU from a PlayChoice10 or VS. System, which is expensive and you're using up replacement parts for other PC10 and VS., or buy an $80 board from some guy in Australia.

The retron5 bullshit is still worse, though

>>1312824
>mfw Sonic has two left feet
>mfw he is a victim of Sonic Hedgehog Homolog mutation, also evidenced by his cyclopean eye

I use s-video for SD consoles.

>>1313789

Hey, Richard Elson, sweet.

>>1313626

>>1313828
I assume in top right the waterfall shifts between being tinted green, and some other color (pink?), every pixel it moves across the screen?

>>1313012
I want to know where people got the idea that seeing pixels = bad. What's bad is when they've been horrendously filtered in an attempt to look HD. I just want to see the game in its purest form. If that means jaggies and obvious pixel counts, then so be it. It's beautiful the way it is.

Pushing for pixel acceptance.

>>1313838
its just bad as all those ps1/ps2 emulator users that stretch the games because they hate black bars

its like every single persona 3/4 thread in /v/

>>1313828
Does anyone really prefer anything but the top left?

>>1313630
I have some comparison pics of this if you'd like to see them, although they're both also on different period 13" Trinitrons. 2003 for the Wii, 1987 for the NES.

>>1313874
i prefer clean pixels myself, but not when it comes down to transparency effects

>>1313665
We don't try to convince the people who want Retrons to buy extensive, high end, authentic systems and cables. We try to convince them to buy Wiis.

>>1312824
The left is better.

This thread is dicks.

>>1313838
The only really good way to do that for games on <6th gen consoles is through emulation though. A good CRT will give you a very accurate "pixel for pixel" view of your games on real hardware, better than almost any HDTV, because of poor upscalers. Then put input lag and motion blur on top of that and you can see why we try to get people to use CRTs for old consoles OR, if they really want to use their HDTVs, to emulate.

>>1313012
>Those smudgy colors

Come on now, people don't actually think the left is better, do they?

>>1313838
Probably from Sega

After all they're the original graphic whores with the DOUBLE THE BITS crap

In a way Sega started the whole thing that's going on these days about focusing more on graphics being fancy than gameplay being good

>>1313892
Needs more blurriness and color bleed and so on. I can almost make whatever that is out.

>>1313970
Do you even retro? It would be obvious if op enabled proper moire distortion.

>>1313630
I know that most Nintendo Consoles (At least the Super NES and later) have very good Composite Video output. I thought the NES also had above-average Composite output, but I can verify that soon--all I need to do is move the NES from my 1982 15" RF-Only Trinitron to my 2006 Insignia NS-24FTV. I don't have NES games on my Wii, though.

I know the Sega Genesis has really shitty Composite Video output, though. I don't have a real Genesis, but I do have a RetroGen adapter for my SNES, and BOY does it look like SHIT or WHAT! And from what I've read, a real Genesis console doesn't look much better, either.

>>1312997
i dont see why not. go for it, post results.

SNES hi res blend shader works good on Sonic

>>1313073
well you're clearly not an enthusiast. So what does it matter now? Just do your own shit, and stop asking the internet why they want it their way.

>>1313108
What the fuck is the accessory with the antenna

Just to add to the clusterfuck:
Is there any good way to hook up a console to a computer monitor?
Most of the converter boxes I've seen have major issues with scaling and input lag.

>>1316671
Not unless you're running a Dreamcast with the VGA box, no.

>>1316671
RGB out through a line doubler

SLG3000 too if you want 240p scanlines

>>1313012
If you want to break up high-freq noise don't smear everything to shit, just put a scanline filter on it.

>>1313368
>>1313630
Sorry, it looks like shit, have you got the resolution set up properly?

You need to enable 240p mode manually, see: http://retrorgb.com/wiivsclassic.html

Composite.

RGB.

>>1316671
Depends on the console, some just need a special cable, some need extensive modding.

>>1316735
>Depends on the console
PS1 and/or PS2, if that helps.

>>1316726
I think you need to fix your palette there.

>>1316746
You're in luck! All the Playstations output RGB, all you need is the right cable (no modding needed).

We've already been over this.
RGB is better... for fucking movies. Not games.

>>1316609
>blur everywhere

Did all emulator writers have shit TVs or something?

>>1316784
No. They just didn't use incorrect inputs on their TVs as the developer intended. Quit fucking trolling.

>>1316784

Blur is necessary to blend the waterfalls

>>1316779
>implying there's something wrong with visible dithering

>>1316817
The fact that the waterfalls are drawn as vertical lines instead of checkerboard dithering proves you wrong. (and even if they were checkerboard dithering that wouldn't prove you right.)

>>1316765

A real PlayChoice-10 outputs RGB with really vibrant colors compared to the NTSC output of the NES.

>>1316823
>The fact that the waterfalls are drawn as vertical lines instead of checkerboard dithering proves you wrong.

Proves who wrong how? The fact is that horizontal blending introduces blur and it makes the waterfall transparent like it is on composite out.

>>1316819

Yes there is something wrong. It's supposed to be transparent, not a checkerboard.

>>1316835
But it is transparent.

>>1316829
>A real PlayChoice-10 outputs RGB with really vibrant colors compared to the NTSC output of the NES.

So basically your intention was to draw comparison of two different systems? Interesting. You'd think if you wanted to show the difference between RGB/emulator/nes and composite/nes You'd at least pretend both were NES instead of using a palette of a different machine.
So you're intentionally being misleading by stating composite and RGB.

Reminds me never to have you on a scientific team to eliminating control variables.

>>1316832
The vertical lines represent falling water. If it was supposed to be blurred why bother with that detail?

>>1316849
It's not a palette of a different machine, that's the color it's supposed to be.

NTSC = Never The Same Color

>>1316869
That typewriter is more proof that dithering isn't supposed to be blurred away. Here the checkerboard pattern represents individual keys and blur would make the object unrecognizable.

So to sum up this thread, RGB is generally better but if you want really great waterfalls in Sonic you need to go with composite.

>>1316867
>Never The Same Color
>replicates 'nearly' the same color on every calibrated CRT
I have never not seen a NES put out a purple sky in Mario on dozens of displays.
Also, no it's not the color it's supposed to be. Because that's not the color it was.
The problem is you're using a nice joking acronym to prove a point instead of realizing that most people saw more or less the same fucking colors out of the NES. And the playchoice-10 being a different machine, an arcade with a different fucking palette on the PPU was not the same fucking color set anyone who didn't mod their machines saw.

These threads are the equivalent of the /v/ threads of dudes looking at floor textures and comparing the resolution.

>>1316905
Purple? What are you talking about? Don't you know what moire is?

> playchoice-10

You keep bringing this up, I didn't. It's using NES color schemes and unmodified color settings on a PVM.

>>1316647
It's the T.V. tuner

>>1316935
The color. Yes and has nothing to do the discussion. You did. No it's not.

Kept brief because you're just fucking trolling my shit at this point. Any further response will be disregarded.

>>1316823
bro check out
>>1313626

>>1316869
So clear, so many lines. Monitor?
>>1316874
snes-hires-blend.cg doesn't blend anything larger than 256pix wide, so such a solution doesn't afflict visibility there. Very fitting for SNES, honestly, and holds purpose for cases in Sega consoles like this despite hitting everything.
Kega Fusion does something similar for >>1313626 but as to why you'd not use Genesis Plus GX I've no idea.