/vr/ - Retro Games

I like it.

>>1258974
Thanks it's my two 13" Trinitrons when I was testing them before I installed them (they flank an HD in the living room). The MM5 one is from 1987 and that's a real NES on it via composite. The RR2 one is from 2003 and that's a Wii running it over component.

>>1258984
I'm pretty sure I've seen you post them before.

Good use of cropping for sure.

>>1258996
It was probably five months ago but yeah time flies!

For some of us - others of us have a new baby

Do Aperture grille tvs use less power?

By how much? How big are they?

If they're the same size and come in pretty big, I think I'll replace my slotmask.

>>1259009
>Do Aperture grille tvs use less power?
Probably not. Can't imagine them being much more power hungry though.

>How big are they?
There are 40'' models, but they're pretty uncommon. Finding a 30-36in model isn't too difficult though.
They(WEGA/FD series) are considerably heavier than equally sized slot/shadowmask sets however

Is it possible to mod a TV to work as a arcade monitor through RGB?

>>1259134
Possible?

Most likely. It all depends on the TV.

Question is, is it worth the time an effort

>>1257981
My display was £30 posted to me. I'm probably going to try and hunt down a 21" PVM soon. There's a particular model that DDR:UK used to use at MCM Expo that is simply delicious. Think they have the 27" model though.

PVM 2130 QM. Hnnng.

>>1258814
This will make you laugh, this is actually a French version of the display. Was actually bought from some company in London though via eBay.

Thing to keep in mind with this display though is that the geometry pots are on the chassis. I had to literally shove my arm into the monitor with a 240p image being displayed to get such good geometry. Really pleased with the job I did.

Also: >Fabrique au Japon.

Japan Trinitron best Trinitron.

I have a flat-screened 27" CRT.

So I can't play light gun games. On the flipside...I don't own any (well, I have the two Virtua Cop games but no guns to go with them).

>>1259213

Noice! My KV-14M1B is made in Spain though (Fabriqué en Espagne).

Is there a difference between flat screen CRTs and the "curved" ones?

I'm just getting into using CRTs and theses threads are rife with different types of connections. What's the ranking of best to worst type of connection and does this change with what region you're in?

I may be completely wrong but I'm starting to think Component means something completely different in the UK to US.

>>1259237

The curved ones have less geometrical problems. Also, the flat ones use a different kind of electron cannon>>1259237
.

>>1259239
"Component" is YPbPr(Analog) or YCbCr(Digital). It's also known as Colo(u)rStream.

RGB is a component video signal, as it's divided up into 3 separate parts(Just as ColorStream is)

Composite is all the video in one cable and gets mixed up with "Component" a lot because they both start with Comp.

>>1259239
RGB > Component > S-Video > Composite > RF

If you're in the UK you'll want RGB via an RGB SCART cable. If you're in the US you'll want component, generally. Unless you have a worthwhile Commodore monitor or a PVM.

I say RGB is better than component because it has superior bandwidth but to the end user the difference is negligible - they're basically the same. Although, component can achieve much higher resolutions than a typical RGB image - which is 320x240, 15kHz, 240p/480i.

>>1259260
>I say RGB is better than component because it has superior bandwidth
RGB and Component both have access to the same amount of bandwidth. The way component it designed, it just uses less of it(it gets rid of redundant information).

And hi-res RGB could technically be done; It was just never made a standard(ignoring VGA and such).

>>1259264
>RGB and Component both have access to the same amount of bandwidth.
That's correct.

>The way component it designed, it just uses less of it(it gets rid of redundant information).
>(it gets rid of redundant information).
>redundant information
I think of an fast changing voltage when it comes to analogue video signals, where the available bandwidth defines the limit for the maximum frequency (sharpness).
I just can't comprehend what you are trying to say with "redundant information", do you mean it's a waste of cable that all three RGB signals must to have the same voltage level for an greyscale pixel/dot?
Or are you confusing the digital (logical numbers) YCbCr format with the analogue (electrical voltage) YPbPr?
Because on YCbCr a little something called "chroma subsampling" can be set to decrease the amount of color information in order to save bandwidth/disc space with an minimal loss of quality.

>>1259260
>RGB > Component > S-Video > Composite > RF
>I say RGB is better than component because it has superior bandwidth
I would say that RGB is better because it doesn't need to be converted for an RGB based display. It only needs to be amplified to a high voltage to scan it across the CRT screen.

>>1259505
>Or are you confusing the digital (logical numbers) YCbCr format with the analogue (electrical voltage) YPbPr?
Yes

>>1259215
>So I can't play light gun games.
You should get your light gun fixed then.

>>1259517
He said he doesn't own any, so I think he's never even tried.

He might be talking about the expected behavior of an ED/HDTV simply because his TV has a flat tube.

Question. To do RGB, do you need a euro-peen TV? Were no American sets made with the inputs?

>>1259537
you could always adapt SCART to BNC RGB on a sony PVM. that's what I do anyway.

>>1259537
Only one to my knowledge, the RCA Dimensia. Quite a cutting edge system for the 80s but probably not even close to the quality of newer TVs.

Of course, American studio monitors like PVMs and arcade monitors can do RGB fantastically, but they don't have SCART shaped inputs so custom cables are required.

>>1259537
>>1259540
>>1259545
Also, as I always like to point out early and clearly in these threads RGB SCART can be converted to American "Component" (YPbPr) instantly (lagless) and relatively cheaply.

Caveats to be aware of include that seperate audio breakouts are needed (about $7 I can post a pic of the right adapter if need be) and FEW IF ANY HDTVs CAN PROPERLY DISPLAY 240p OVER COMPONENT

>>1259537
Lots of Japanese TV and monitors used their own Japanese 21-pin RGB standard.

Also, the RCA Dimensia line (worst name ever) had some models with SCART inputs. A subset of those accepted RGB through SCART.

Can you recommend me a decent CRT that is small (~8" screen) so it can easily fit on a narrow table and that you can connect to your PC so you can play emulators on it?

>>1259565
I think lots is a bit of an exaggeration.

>>1259553
Never buy something like this, they are shit and induce latency.

>>1259805
>I think lots is a bit of an exaggeration.
Not for Japanese TVs sold in Japan during the 80s and 90s. There were literally lots.

>Never buy something like this, they are shit and induce latency.
If you don't know how electrically simple a colorspace transcoder is or how it introduces ZERO latency, you really shouldn't be posting about them. You'll notice that the device posted isn't one of those Radio Shack or Grandtec specials that offers to do signal format conversions to composite or screen size/geometry adjustments.

>>1259805
>Never buy something like this, they are shit and induce latency.
No.

You're thinking of upscalers.

A "raw" RGB to YUV encoder introduces essentially zero (nanoseconds of) latency.

>>1259683
8" PVM/BVM monitors are common but don't usually have RGB inputs. Also, many old computer monitors (though none for IBM PC) accept analog 15KHz RGB.

You want to use RGB for easy connection to a VGA port. Most modern graphics cards can output 15KHz signals over their VGA port (which are raw RGB, because that's what a VGA port outputs).

>>1259859
My 8" pvm has rgb inputs. However it's also every bit as deep as my 20" pvm

and it's broke

>>1259683
I used to have one and just saw the same thing at a flea market in Friday but I can't remember the brand. Have a look for POS screens. That's what most small CRTs were designed for.

>>1259805
>latency
Yes. It may be as high as a few ns, or one bazzilionth of a pixel.

And the moral of the story is don't shout Muh Latency! every time you see a black box with video connectors.

>>1259247
>It's also known as Colo(u)rStream

I don't think anyone knows it as that.

>>1259805
>they are shit and induce latency

What is discrete logic

>>1259683
These look pretty alright for cheap little composite monitors.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171116165494

Found this by my dumpster, think I should take it in for vidya?

>>1260183

Yes. Try it. It's wet outside, so let that sit out for DAYS. DAYS. Maybe a week.

Then test it. Likely might have some issues.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAeJjjUrP3U

>This is RetroArch running Higan, with a >Custom CRT SHADER I've been tweaking for ages! And this is all on a 50" Plasma screen!

Shit nigga. That looks like an upscaler on a real system and not a shader. I guess it's a modified CRT Geom. Clearer though. Would love to try it out.

CRTs have now been made irrelevant.

>>1260183
Looks like one of those late slimline CRTs which are shit (terrible geometry/convergence), and also possibly ED/HDTV which would also be shit for old games

>>1260194
>(terrible geometry/convergence)

What does that mean?

>>1260205
This is a crosshatch test pattern used to calibrate CRTs. With poor geometry the squares will not be of equal shape across the screen, and in some cases not square.

Convergence is how the red, green and blue beams line up together on the screen. Ideally they should all be spot-on but in reality that doesn't happen, but on a good TV you shouldn't notice any convergence issues unless you're being really anal and looking stupidly close at the screen. Use the googles to find examples.

With "Slim" CRTs both convergence and geometry goes to shit, especially in corners. Their physical dimensions are a terrible compromise to picture quality.

>>1260192
>CRTs have now been made irrelevant.
Nice try!

I've got a Sony KV-27FS320, and the picture geometry on the thing is weird. I can't tell if this is caused by some kind of interference, or if it's just how the thing is. It's sitting right next to an LCD TV, but I don't know if that would cause anything like this. The picture on the right is what it's like when not displaying anything, it's got that weird blue line. I notice that sometimes the picture is fine, like when I start up a Dreamcast game and it displays the all white Sega screen. Then the picture is perfect. But once the game starts, it fucks up. You can see in the top left, it's a bit discoloured and bent, that's the most common thing I've noticed, that's usually there no matter what system or type of connection I'm using, be it RF, composite, S-video or component. I had an older TV before that had similar problems, so I feel like there's something going on here that's fucking up my picture.

I don't really know much about these things, does anyone here know what could be causing it, or is it just something I gotta deal with?

>>1260237
Top-left is "purity" or "landing", sides are "pincushion". If you can get to the service menu you should be able to sort these out, seeing it's a modern enough CRT.

The fact you don't see pincushioning on bright white screens is down to "blooming". If the change is significant it could be a power related issue: http://www.repairfaq.org/samnew/tvfaq/tvbloom.htm

>>1260192
I realize some plasmas can simulate CRT flicker, but if you don't specify that I'll assume it doesn't and sample-and-hold blur is a problem.

>>1260230
kinda reminds me of those test patterns i can bring up using splash lake for the tg16

>>1260308
and the other one...

>>1260267
Thanks, this helped a lot. I got into the service menu earlier but I didn't want to mess with anything without knowing what to look for. I got it looking a lot better. It's not quite perfect but it's pretty close.

>>1260308
Test patterns are often provided in the service menu for arcade games, or even on startup. The crosshatch pattern is common for setting geometry and can be used to some extent for convergence (dot pattern or others are better though).

>>1260313
This looks like SMPTE color bars but the bottom row is wrong, probably because the TG16 can't produce the very specific signals mainly designed for calibrating NTSC decoders.

GUYS GUYS GUYS

http://boston.craigslist.org/nos/ele/4230065528.html

AM I IN?! MIGHT THIS BE A GOOD COP?

(they look dirty AF, but a little isoprobyl alcohol will do the trick)

>>1260472
>Choice between an older XBR and a newer low-end model
pain

>>1260483
Which do you think I should get, Anon?

I would like the 24inch because I'm not too sure if I'm going to have a lot of room to accommodate the 32.
What differences are there between the two? btw I'lm going to be using S-Video.

>>1260483
Also,


>tfw I'll probably never get an e-mail response from the seller

Jesus man, WHY do you put things on Craigslist when you never reply to my e-mails?

>>1260504
You should take both and thoroughly test them with your actual application and your actual installation then give the other one to a /vr/ bro.

Is it natural to assume some geometry issues will exist in every CRT? Do I just need to stop being so anal? I've bought 3 sets so far, and not one of them yet seems to make straight lines straight all the time. Is this simply the nature of the machine?

>>1260512
I'd love to do that. However, it'd be such a bitch to carry both those babies up 3 flights of stairs to get to my room.

This is another ad that I have my eye on.
http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/ele/4226186796.html

I know it's not SONY, but I'm also in need of a stand to put my consoles on...

>>1260534
Another. This one looks really old.

>>1260525
This is one of the reasons why professional monitors are so much more expensive than televisions. If you absolutely need perfect geometry, get a PVM/BVM.

>>1260534
Toshibas make a lot of good stuff but their CRTs are pretty mid-tier if you ask me. They look good when you see them at Goodwill then they disappoint in action.

Samsungs, Mitsubishis and even RCAs over Toshibas. JVC is another brand I usually trust but has let me down on the CRTs.

>>1260587
Thanks for the info

>>1260525
I would say yes, to an extent. even (especially) trinitrons have their issues with geometry. you should never expect a CRT to display a perfect image 100% of the time. remember it is an analog technology with analog performance characteristics.

Would something like this be good for playing my old vidjya games?
http://cleveland.craigslist.org/pho/4225364899.html

Weight isn't a factor but I'm not sure if it's too big for older games.

>>1260679
have fun moving that thing, a 36" tube set probably weighs 200 pounds

I need some help to calibrate a CRT.
Already download colorbars and tone from something like mytvtestdisc.
How to calibrate step-by-step

>>1260693
Consult the service manual for your particular chassis.

FFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK


THE SONY TRINITRON NEAREST TO ME

DUDE SENT ME PHOTOS OF PORTS

NO S-VIDEO THOUGH

FUUUUUUUUCK

>>1260693
color bars is only useful for setting up the color phase and brightness. what type of adjustments do you need to make?

>>1260714
Mainly I need Sharpness. Picture and VM adjustments would be nice too

>>1260726
model number please, also what is this VM adjustment?

>>1260741
KV-25FV12
VM show as High. Low or OFF But if set to off the picture goes blurry

>>1260704
Not this guy, but is there any way to get s-video (or even rgb) out of a composite only trinitron? I have a little old KV-13M10 that has a CXA1465AS in it. I feel like it'd be more difficult that just soldering the Y and C out to some an s-video port. Any ideas?

>>1260757
velocity modulation is an edge enhancement feature, designed to improve detail in the luminance. since this is a sony wega set it is rather late in the trinitron life, most of your service settings are in an on screen menu.

Ok so this is what i learn so far from CRT-Threads
>Curve over Flat
>Ideal Max size 21"
>Component over S-video and S-video over Composite (never go RF).
>Sony Trinitron PVM's over Sony Trinitron TV and Sony Trinitron TV over all others.
Am I in the right road to perfect /vr/ experience?

>>1260794
if you mean adding RGB to a TV set it's much more involved than you might think.

>>1260816
I wouldn't be so quick to discount shadow/slot mask CRT's. I can't think of any instance that an aperture grille CRT was used in an arcade setting, and some of those arcade chassis' produced a near perfect image IMHO.

>>1260794
Find out what the chip is in your TV then find the datasheet for it.

See where the pins are for Chroma/Luma/ground then it is just a matter of wiring them up to a input.

You may need to add 75ohm resistors to get the brightness right.

>>1260816
>Sony Trinitron PVM's over Sony Trinitron TV and Sony Trinitron TV over all others.


What's the diff? PVM vs regular TV? Thanks guys.

Pic related, found another one, baby. Just waiting to hear back on the seller and see if it has S-Video.


Damn it, I was looking not to spend a single cent on a CRT, but FUCK. And that damn guy I linked here >>1260472 hasn't replied to my e-mail yeeeeeet

>tfw the Euro version of my TV has SCART and a de-interlace button.
>meanwhile i am stuck with composite only.

>>1260878
can't argue with free. worst case scenario you dump it in the trash.
PVM series are industrial monitors, not really meant for consumers. their functions greatly vary based on application.

>>1260892
Poor guy.

>>1260891
Ah, thanks for clarifying what PVM is.

Okay, I found a couple of FREE Sony Trini's, however they're all about 27-37inches.

Would that size be alright? I'm thinking smaller, like 20-26 would be ideal for playing SNES, N64, GC, Sega Gen via S-Video.

>>1260904
I don't know why but I laughed too hard at the Nick Jr niglet

>>1260904
any free trinitron is fine, but I would stay well clear of the WEGA line.

>>1260904

>little bill

Wow is that show still around? Makes me feel old.

Are Sanyo TV's any good?

I've seen a few Japanese lets players use them for famicom/super famicom videos.

>>1260924
good? no. average? yes.

>>1260920
What you got against Wega Bro?

>>1260920
Oh, I thought WEGA was a part of the "Trinitron" line or whatever.

>>1260936
>>1260937
more trouble than they are worth. their truly flat widescreen nature introduces several issues with convergence, geometry and color purity. they are also very expensive to repair.

>>1260948
Okay I'll give you that. Even my little 13" gets a bit wonky in the corners.

>>1260948
Ooh nice, thanks for the heads up man!
So is WEGA part of the Trinitron line or is it another model? How do I know if it's a WEGA? If I go check out a Sony, will it have "WEGA" written on it like "Trinitron" does?

>>1260959
When Sony's Patent on the trinitron ran out other brands started copying them so Sony developed the WEGA which is basically just a flat screen Trinitron.

Should I choose an early model Sony Trinitron over a later Phillips model?
Someone offer me a CRT and give me the chance to choose between this two, Haven't see them yet and don't know the models.
What you guys think about phillips CRT's?

>>1260964
basically avoid any flat crt?

>>1260970
you dont list any model numbers or even production years.

>>1260972
yes. If a CRT were meant to be flat they would all be flat.

>>1260975
I don't know the models or the production years.
Just been told that the Phillips is newer than the Sony

>>1260984
philips made a quality product, basically any big name manufacturer can be depended upon as long as the tube is not made in china.

http://www.ebay.com/itm//251334156900

/vr/, for a supposedly unused PVM, how does this look? I'm looking for something about this size and it seems like it could be a fair enough deal. It's got RGB input, which I know some PVM's don't have.

>>1261193
Looks shitty but it's probably just the photo

>>1260873
I don't think S-video/RGB in would be hard to achieve, it's getting it to show up on the screen that's the hard part.

These old composite trinitrons only have one video selection mode, composite. So even if I wired up s-video, I'm not sure how I'd switch to it. Same with RGB. Usually RGB is used for the OSD, people have had spotty luck overriding the OSD.

Not exactly retro, but how would one use the most out of an modded xbox on a sony trinitron?
I'm thinking User-end TV, and component cables. For use with it's own games and emulators.

And for what I've been reading on this thread, flatscreen = bad?

>>1261262
I used to fuck with modded Xbox a lot but lately I've kind of prefered the Wii. I guess there's a RetroArch available for it so basically, just like Wii use RetroArch to match the native resolutions of the games and push it out the component cables to your TV.

>>1261274
Oh shit, he said the RA word.

Everyone duck for cover!

>>1259134
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SuperGun

>>1261293
Well that won't really cover his RGB question, but there are Superguns that output SVideo. The Vogatek ones are the cheapest.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/190884597629

I've seen PVMs, BVMs, what the fuck is a GVM? Is it just as good? I live close enough to be able to pick this up. Would $489 be worth it for a brand new monitor if a GVM is just as good?

>>1261303
I'd like to know how to use an arcade monitor to accept RGB as well. I have a practically unused JAMMA cocktail cab with a Samsung CRT inside, but I can't find a VGA input on it..

>>1261305
hell to the fuckin' no! $500 for a CRT monitor is just plain dumb.
>>1261308
arcade monitors always accept RGB.

>>1261305
Looks like it's a multisync monitor that handles both 15KHz and 31KHz signals. Pretty sweet, if it wasn't hundreds of dollars.

>>1261308
THAT is an easy one. Pic related.

>>1261315
Or this if you want to use a PC but you'll have to use crt_emudriver to get the frequency down low enough for the arcade monitor to sync it.

>>1261274
Oh, I been feeding the idea of getting a Wii for a while. I'm going the xbox route for now because I actually have it. And I'm pretty casual, so I never really bothered to get to the technicalities of image output on emulation.

Also, I gave a quick search for trinitrons. A fuckton of WEGAs and flatscreens... and the ones that aren't flat don't have component.

Fuck.

I'm going insane browsing eBay for good PVM models. There aren't any within 300 miles of me that are worth a damn. Fuck the Midwest.

Can anyone point out any well priced PVM monitors, cost of shipping included? I'd really appreciate it.

Picture unrelated.

>>1260110
>I don't think anyone knows it as that.
Anon probably read it off some Toshiba promotional materials or instructions. It's their trademark for it.

>>1260169
You mean except for the burned-in text smack in the middle of the picture?

I have the opportunity to buy this Trinitron off of craigslist. The guy wants $50 but I think I can talk him down to $20-30

Unfortunately it's 200 fucking pounds for 36'' of glory

What do you think?

Internet specs says it has:
Component video input, 3 composite inputs, S-video input, 2 RF inputs, and audio output.

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-KV36FS12-Triniton-WEGA-gray/dp/B00005I9QW

>>1260534
>AF42
It's a goody if you need something this size. I'd pick it up if I were you. If you do, I'll walk you through the menus.

>>1260587
I want you to post this whole exact post at AVS. Link me to the thread when you do. Bonus points if you can send the message back in time by about 6 years.

>>1261610
It's a 4:3 SDTV, pretty much ideal for classic games, although it is a flatscreen.

I have a KV-36FS500 and couldn't be happier.

>>1260372
they live in a hole hole
which is usually emtpy

they live by a code code
which is usually SMPTE

which stands for
society of motion picture and television engineers

baby snakes

>>1261610
I have a 32FS13 (or is it 30FS13?) and it's pretty great. Component input and s-video both look amazing - I can't tell the difference unless I intentionally throw a high-frequency (640px-wide, at least) red/blue pattern (for example) at it.

>>1261578
It's $20 Dude what do you want? Light burn in can be reversed.

>>1261968
really? that's amazing. how do you fix phosphor burn in?
>protip: you can't.

Hey guys, gonna pick up this baby today.
I'm so excited!
Urgh... I'd go pick it up right now, but the dang thing is 94 pounds. I'm waiting for my friend to be available.


>>1261629
Cool. Does it have S-Video though? Also, the stand he is offering looks really damn nice. I might be able to use something like it. I'll ask.

>>1262027
You do it by ageing the rest of the surface equally, i.e. by displaying the inverted image of the one that is "burned in"

For very light burn in, just leaving snowy static on it for a few days will often significantly reduce the harshness of the burn.

Nice attempt at sarcasm, though. Soon you might even be able to pass for a regular 4channer.

>>1262104
I'll agree to disagree with you. if a customer has enough phosphor burn to become noticeable, no amount of static will reduce it to an agreeable level. all you are doing is prolonging the inevitable which is tube replacement. when I said I was a pro, what I meant was I've worked in the industry for over 20 years.

Is a Sony Trinitron KV32FQ70E suitable for retrogaming? I was planning to use it with a SNES and PS1. Can the wide screen be an issue when used with the aforementioned consoles?

I really enjoyed how the GBC and GBA were like the NES2 and SNES2.

The games look great with scanlines too.

640x480 games with hardware scanlines, has science gone too far?

>>1262362
I agree. I'm playing Summon Night Swordcraft Story 2 using my Wii and shit, everything looks so damn good.

>>1262365
stabilization wire...

>>1262370
Where? I can't see it.

>>1262365
>has science gone too far?
No.

>>1262343
Isn't prolonging the inevitable all we're ever doing with maintenance?

Surely you will concede that of a static image is etched into the phosphor surface that displaying the negative of that image for a prolonged period will etch the other sections equally and the burned in image will vanish.

>>1262072
>Does it have S-Video though?
Look up the model number.

>>1262362
except orginal GBC and GBA console screens had dots when you look upclose NOT TV-ish scanlines. so you're playing it WRONG!!!

you really playing the games like they were plugged into a gameboy player. like emulating an emulator? are you that delusional?

>>1262104
and before that happens? your tube will or powersupply will probably burn out. just get a new CRT or emulate, damnit.

>>1262415
Oh yeah, playing on a screen that doesn't emit any light is much better.

>>1262415
GB Player isn't emulation. It's actual GBA hardware from the original manufacturer.

Can someone please explain NTSC/PAL to me? All that I get is that they're different broadcasting systems that were used since the early days of television and ran at different frequencies, resulting in the framerate differences between NTSC and PAL games. Did I get it right?

>>1262359
16:9 are not best option, for example mine locks out 4:3 option when using rgb-scart for some reason(basically forces 16:9 even when it should be 4:3) and some other minor issues, but that might be just >daewoo but mine was free so..

Also if its one of those HD-crt's, then even for free its even worse.

>>1262568
basically, PAL had slightly higher resolution and better color reproduction but many game devs were lazy as shit and didn't bother to code engines with anything other than 60Hz in mind, so they just adjusted the game to run at 5/6th speed and called it a day.

>>1262578

Okay, I think I get it now thanks.

>>1262568

It's the way colors are encoded in composite and RF signals. NTSC use a refresh rate of 60Hz, while PAL use 50Hz most of the time, even though there is such a thing as PAL-60Hz (but it's not supported by many yuro CRT TVs). Also, the fact that PAL is using 50Hz means that the set can display more lines during one refresh.

>>1262591
>Also, the fact that PAL is using 50Hz means that the set can display more lines during one refresh.

Which games actually took advantage of PAL's higher resolution?

>>1262594

None on consoles, only C64, Atari and Amiga ones.

>>1262575
Fuck you just reminded that my Classic Controller haven't arrived yet.

>>1262459
>>1262415
Even though I have had a Super Gameboy since the 90s, Gameboy games on CRTs still don't feel right to me and I usually play them on my phone with pixels as developers intended[

>>1262568
NTSC and PAL refer to the color encodings used by the 525- and 625-line systems, respectively. Both systems scan ~15 thousand lines per second. This means either 525 lines per frame, 30 frames per second, or 625 lines per frame, 25 frames per second. (Each frame is scanned in two fields, for refresh rates of 60/50hz.)

>>1262608
>>1262591
This is why palbros get black bars at the top and bottom of their screens when they play NTSC games

>>1262615
What the heck are you talking about?

>>1262619
Most PAL hardware has a mode which simply blanks the top and bottom of the screen, giving the same active resolution as the NTSC hardware.

>>1262603
I know for a fact that the Mega-Drive has a PAL-only 240-line mode.

>>1262591
>PAL-60Hz (but it's not supported by many yuro CRT TVs).
Not true. From as long as I can remember (so, since the beginning of the SNES era but it was probably even the case earlier) the vast majority of TVs supported 60hz. And whe I say "the vast majority", I mean every fucking TV except the very small sized ones that are like from 15" to 17". So, there was NO excuse for games still being 50hz all this time and the longer it went on the most bullshit it was.

>>1262631
I have NEVER seen a TV with a mode like that, must be quite recent.

>>1262674

Most of the yuro CRTs of the time accepted colors in 60Hz when the input was in RGB, but most didn't when it comes to Composite or Y/V.
My Sony Trinitron from the mid 90's doesn't accept colors from a composite input when the refresh rate was above 50Hz, even if it's PAL (I tested it with my LD player).

>>1262674
>I have NEVER seen a TV with a mode like that, must be quite recent.
No, it's got nothing to do with the TV. It was a mode in the console's video hardware.

>>1262694
Are you sure it's not trying to use the wrong chroma encoding? Are you giving it 60hz PAL 4.43 or 60hz NTSC 3.58? (or NTSC 4.43?)

>>1262674
>So, there was NO excuse for games still being 50hz
The "excuse" is that 50hz is the standard in Europe. The proper approach is games which are corrected for the 50hz refresh rate.

>>1262578
>PAL had slightly higher resolution
True, but the vertical color resolution is decreased by half because of the way how PAL works.

>>1262591
>there is such a thing as PAL-60Hz (but it's not supported by many yuro CRT TVs)
I personally say that every 90s Trinitron can do it and most other brands of the 2000s. But here it's a matter of the way of the TV deflection circuits works. The chroma processor should be able to display that signal in color, but the (vertical) deflection must be able to work with 60hz properly.

>>1262603
>None on consoles
YOU FUCKING LIAR.
See the attached screenshot.

>>1262713
>>1262723

Both 60Hz PAL and NTSC give me a B&W picture on my Trinitron. Colors at a 60Hz refresh rate are displayed only when I feed her with an RGB signal, not with composite, nor Y/V.

Also, sorry, but I don't play to consoles released after the Saturn really often, so I can't say if they can use PAL screens correctly or not. Well now I know that the n64 can

>>1262674
>From as long as I can remember (so, since the beginning of the SNES era but it was probably even the case earlier) the vast majority of TVs supported 60hz.
You must be quite young then. It wasn't very common for PAL TVs to support 60 Hz until the mid-late '90s, especially cheaper sets. With an older '80s set, if it didn't have manual H- and V-hold controls or real multi-standard support you're probably fucked.

>>1262694
I find older sets that support NTSC 4.43 can't handle PAL60, like my early '90s PVM.

I've had good success with PAL60 on newer sets though. One thing to watch out for: Modding consoles for multi-region often results in unusable chroma signals, i.e. they won't output PAL60 or NTSC when playing NTSC games. Certainly the case for the MD and PS1 - these need further modification to output functional chroma at 60 Hz, or you just need to use RGB.

>>1262732
>Both 60Hz PAL and NTSC give me a B&W picture on my Trinitron. Colors at a 60Hz refresh rate are displayed only when I feed her with an RGB signal, not with composite, nor Y/V.
Have you tried NTSC 4.43?

>>1262735

Well I alway use RGB as all my consoles and computer output this kind of signal.

>>1262739

Nope, I only tried the standard NTSC and PAL 60Hz modes, I never brothered trying to change the Chroma settings (if it's what you're talking about).

Hey guys. Your thoughts?

http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/ele/4224735519.html
or
http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/ele/4218558627.html
?

Both have S-Video ports.

>>1262773
And I know they're both Sony Trini's.
I just want to... get /vr/'s opinion.

>>1262773
>Free TV for 15 bucks?


What?

>>1262773
It depends entirely on how much you care about the size differences and their working condition - a shitty photo of a TV turned off is not very useful.

>>1262783
Hahahaha, I know. My friend caught that too. I even contacted the seller and they replied to me, and we set up a meeting time -- and I still had to idea that they mentioned "free"!

I don't know how to approach this. Like, what would I say to the person?

>>1262798
I know I didn't give you much to work with.
I guess, for retro gaming, would one size be better? Is small best? Is large best? Thanks.

>>1262806
Your games will look good on both. Both will have noticeable scanlines being Svideo Trinitrons. It's a matter of how much space you have and how far away you want to sit.

>>1261305
GVM-2020 does not have a "super fine pitch" Trinitron tube, it seems more like a standard consumer-grade tube going by the specs - 560 TVL (the eBay description is again incorrect) is pretty average for a 20" set.

The 15-36 kHz/50-100 Hz input range is certainly interesting though - it'd be good for medium res arcade games, multi-sync home computers (Amiga, ST, Archemedes, X68k, etc.), and DC VGA.

>>1260873
I wish I could find a detailed service manual of my Sony Trinitron

>>1262824
>The 15-36 kHz/50-100 Hz input range is certainly interesting though
36kHz means it can do 1080i. Maybe it was designed for Sony's old 1135-line HDTV system.

So I've got RGB scart cables for my Megadrive, PS1, SNES & N64 and they're hooked into a nice CRT however I'm wondering what I should use for my slightly newer consoles like the cube and dreamcast. I know these can do 480p however does this mean I can get away with a reasonable quality LCD or did they make 480p capable CRTs?

>>1262874
>480p capable CRTs
pretty much anything you're going to find is going to be a widescreen POS

My PVM 2130QM has a VGA port on the back. Will it accept the vga signal from a dreamcast? I have trouble finding information online.

>>1262917
That's not VGA

>>1262917
That DB9 on the back isn't a VGA port, It looks like Digtal(TTL) RGB socket and is marked as such.
TTL RGB is a common standard on ancient 8bit home microcomputers.
The best you will get through that monitor is analogue RGB through the SCART

>>1262925
>>1262928
Thank you very much.

>>1262917
Oh and you might find this useful
http://www.mediafire.com/view/?9nk3b1vemvlfpve

>>1262917
>>1262928
Yeah, DB-9 is for ancient PCs with CGA graphics cards, the Commodore 128 and pretty much nothing else.

>>1262874
It's okay to use HDTVs with consoles that put out digital signals. You gotta fork out a wad for that CGamecube digital cable Or just use a backward compatible Wii

>>1262874
>did they make 480p capable CRTs?

They did, they're called computer CRT monitors, and they can do upwards of 1200p. CRT monitors were doing HD in the mid-90s.

>>1262994
It has occurred to me that I've been a flange forgetting about these and the dreamcasts pre-existing vga ability. Is there an easy method to hook component into VGA?

>>1263003
The Gamecube has a VGA cable if that's the question.

>>1262987
Backwards compatible Wii is what I use for Gamecube games, because component cables for the Wii are 1/10th the price of GCN component cables.

>>1263039
Well the VGA cable for that is cheap, even cheaper than the Dreamcast VGA box.

>>1263050
Gamecube doesn't have a first party VGA cable or anything though, does it?

As one with good compatibility with games.

>>1263052
It's the same deal as the component cables, it has to have that special assist chip in the cable. I don't remember if there's a 3rd party one but it would still be more expensive than just buying a Wii.

/vr/, I have a dilemma. I've been talking to this guy locally about pic related - a PVM 14L2, manufactured December '04. He bought it new as part of an indie film production team and says it's seen >100 hours of use. It looks great, but he's $150 firm. There's not really any other PVMs near me, so I'd have to resort to eBay otherwise. Should I jump on it, or is it too much?

Guys,

An opportunity has presented itself to me. I'm not sure what to make of this as it's still in the box, unopened. A RGB Monitor from Japan. What kind could it be?

The woman said she had another TV that was a Panasonic, which she assumes is the one in the box as well. However, I have my doubts that it might be a different brand.

Think I should go for it?

>>1263664
That is quite a bit for that size...try and talk him down to 100 if you can. Even at that high price, it's almost worth it imo.

>>1263689
Google and model numbers are your friend
http://www.kpsurplus.com/buy/jcpenney_rgb_monitor_receiver_685_2217/52070

>>1263696
>http://www.kpsurplus.com/buy/jcpenney_rgb_monitor_receiver_685_2217/52070
Thanks, I did try Google but I didn't use the right words I guess.

Is this a good TV? That link makes it seem pretty old, I wonder if this model she's selling is more current?

>>1263716
From the look of it, I'd guess it's a rebranded Toshiba Blackstripe monitor. I had one that didn't have RGB and it was a pretty badass little TV. Old doesn't matter that much as long as it was stored someplace within its tolerances. We call that NOS or New Old Stock. It has a type of RGB port that I've seen on some old PVMs. I'd say that if you pass it up, you'll regret it. You may have to build your own SCART adapter though.

>>1263716
Now that I look a bit closer at the PVMs I've seen this port on, it's usually labelled "VTR" and I was under the impression that these 8 pin VTR ports were composite only but on this JC Penny TV it's clearly labelled RGB

Found a scan of a page from a Sony manual that leads me to doubt the credibility of the old ass webpage everyone seems to be accepting as the authoritative "no" on this question

http://www.labguysworld.com/Connectors.htm

>>1263690
This brother is not budging. He says "anything less than $150 is gonna have hundreds of hours of use." I'm torn. I don't mind a 14", and I dig low usage (if he's telling me the truth), but I don't want to pay way more than I should..

Should I bite the bullet, or just buy a cheaper ex-production unit instead?

>>1263850
Honestly, I never trust whatever usage people say their monitors had. There's no way to prove how many hours a unit has so people could easily lie or just have no clue how many hours it has.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SONY-PVM-14L1-14-FINE-PITCH-COLOR-VIDEO-MONITOR-Quantity-/251400705991?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a88a657c7

They're on eBay for $60 with free shipping. Even with the supposed hours this dude says it is, spending over twice the amount just to take this guy's word for it isn't worth it.

>>1263763
How on earth would I hook that up to say a PS1? Is there some kind of pin converter?

>>1263858
Disregard the eBay link, that's an L1, but still, my points stands about hourage. The fact that he says it has low usage is nice, but in no way should that affect the price.

I need to go to bed. And stop browinsg /vr/ and work on this final paper.

>>1263859
PS1 outputs RGB through component cables and you would use composite for sync, which would hopefully work but you might have to add a sync seperator, which iirc is an lm1881 IC. Best move would be to build a SCART connector for the port on the TV then hook up your retro systems to it via their RGB SCART cables.

This is the best, purest possible way to hook up retro systems but if it sounds like too much to you, maybe keep looking for something with Svideo and component.

If you don't get it, though, some other Seattlefag really should.

The back of this PVM isn't labeled "RGB/COMPONENT." Since RGB and Component are more or less the same thing (or so /vr/ tells me), would I be able to run component into it with a BNC to component adapter?

>>1263872
RGB and component are not the same. You can only feed component into a PVM that has YPbPr labeled on its RGB ports.

>>1263872
Yes. Some PVMs will display YPbPr "component" as well as RGB (mine does). You just have to switch to it in the menu.

>>1263873
>PS1 outputs RGB through component cables

Only the PS2 can do this. Both the PSX and PSOne output RGB strictly through SCART.

>>1263882
Not that guy but getting my PS2 to run PS1 backups has been an absolute nightmare so far. I hope when my new laser comes that everything would work but fuck.

>>1263876
>>1263872
Sorry. I read the post wrong. If it doesn't at least say "component" then it's RGB only. Some do component, some don't. Looks like that one don't.

>>1263882
Nope. It's the same pins, the PS2 is just able to switch them from RGB to YPbPr. In the PSX they're just RGB all the time. Think about it, that's the only way that the PS2s SCART cable could work.

>>1263873
I'm most likely going to pick it up.

Honestly my biggest question is that I have no idea how I will use my component to SCART adapter with that 8 pin VTR port.

First time in a CRT thread.

I've got a 20" Emerson TV that I've been using since I bought it new about 6 years ago.
Its not perfect but it functions exactly the same as it did when I purchased it.
Is there a reason for me to get a new CRT? I can fit up to about a 30" where my TV is currently.
And why are Trinitrons so highly revered on here? I see them mentioned all the time.
>TLDR convince me to buy a new tv

idk if this is important, but I have all my consoles hooked up through composite, using an 8-in 1-out a/v switchbox, along with an RF switchbox for my atari's. Also all my consoles are set up for stereo, with the NES, and Genesis hooked up for simulated stereo via a Y adapter.
I have the ability for S-Video and UHF on the back, but I dont have anything that uses them.

I also own two Tandy color computers (not connected currently), with plans to get a Commodore 64 in the near future.

>>1263889
But there wouldnt be a sync signal.

>>1263908
You won't need the SCART-to-YUV adapter for that port you can wire SCART to it directly (assuming it accepts CSync)

Pic related, just connect the same pins from this to the ones on this
>>1263793

and hope it syncs

>>1263925
Composite Sync

Hey, /vr/, are these type of old TVs fine for retro gaming?

I know it's a Sony Trini which is good, but it definitely looks much older than other Trinis I've seen. Dunno the model # or if it has S-Vid -- waiting for seller to contact me back and give me that info.

>>1262568
>>1262773
Let me know if I'm wrong, but...A.H.?

>>1264095
Hm? What?

>>1264056
You would be lucky if that thing even has composite.

>>1264056
Would not be ideal. Looks like an '80s model, coax is probably the only input, composite if you're lucky. Hold out for something else.

>>1263913
Trinitrons are recommended largely because they have this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aperture_grille
No bloom, sharper image. Ideal for gaming.

Trinitrons were also hugely popular in their heyday, and can still be found pretty easily if you're looking for one. Check craigslist and your local Goodwills/thrift stores and you should see many Trinitrons available in various sizes, all at fairly low prices. 27 inches is a good size to look for (that's how big my Trini is, and I couldn't be happier) but models exist up to 36 inches.

Sony also came out with their WEGA line from '98 to '06, which were basically Trinitrons with flat-screens. WEGAs were available in standard definition as well as high definition, although you want to avoid the HD WEGAs.

Generally when Trinitron shopping, you don't want to buy anything if it doesn't have S-video. S-video will give you a much sharper image and better color than composite video, and s-video cables for your systems aren't expensive. If you go shopping for a newer WEGA, avoid buying anything that doesn't have component inputs.
Component>>>S-video>>Composite>Coax.
If you want to get technical, RGB has better video quality than component, but you're only gonna find RGB inputs on Trinitron PVMs and BVMs, which were Sony's professional grade monitors. Prices for these are a lot higher than your consumer grade Trinitrons, and sizes are skewed between 8'' and 14'' for the vast majority of them, but running RGB into these professional monitors will give your games the finest image quality possible. The cons would be the smaller size screens, and having to mod certain consoles to output RGB.

This is my 27FS, manufactured in '93. Got it from Goodwill for all of $9 right before Halloween. 3 composite inputs, and 1 S-video input, and I couldn't be happier.

ok so I've got all my sytems hooked up through composite right now. Here's what I have:
NES, SNES, Genesis (model 1 HQ grafics), Sega CD (model 2), Saturn, N64, Dreamcast, Xbox, PS2 (slim), and a Wii.
I also have a 7800, but thats RF only

Is it worth it to get the cables nessesary for those capable of outputting other signals?
Likewise, should I mod the rest so that they too are capable of component/RGB?
If so, my TV only has S-video and composite, so I'd have to get a new one. I do have an LCD capable of component, but I like lightgun games.

>>1263763

Yhis thing is a digital/TTL RGB input, it has nothing to do with the analog one most consoles and computers output. You can use it with an old PC with CGA or a Commodore 128 maybe.

What are PVM-20N6A like? I can pick up on locally for $50

>there will never be a 40" 4:3 plasma with a 480p resolution and perfect blacks

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=43256

I have the opportunity to buy this tv.
I know it's a Sony CRT and is about 20" big. I also have this very horrible photograph.

It's only 10€, so I will probably buy it anyway - but what do you guys say. Can anyone identify it from that picture?

>>1264460
ask for a model number

>>1264460
FD/WEGA line, likely from early '00

Composite: Definitely
S-Video: Very Likely
Component: Likely

Might even have Audio out

>>1264148
Why do you want to avoid the HD ones?

>>1264463
wow, you sir are awesome
that sounds amazing - is it likely to be a SD or HD version, though ?

>>1264464
Addition Image Processing/De-interlacing and as such added input lag.

>>1264470
What about going though RGB?

My CRT has an headphone input but every time I put the headphones in there's this huge boom sound.
I hope this isn't ruining my headphones or something.

>>1264478
Turn the TV off before connecting or disconnecting anything

That boom or loud burst is when the connection is made but the ground hasn't connected.

>>1264483
Got it. That makes sense.

>>1264471
Nearly positive they didn't make any HD sets under ~30in, so SD.

>>1264476
Unless you're in Europe, I can't see them having any type of RGB, only Component.

There ARE, however, "HD" (Multisync) BVMs that would avoid those problems. Considerably more expensive though.

>>1264486
Isn't RGB and component the same format?

>>1264490
No.

>>1264491
Could have fooled me

I guess I'll just go with componenet if I can find one

>>1264493
>>1264491
So it goes like this

HDMI>RGB>Compoent>S-video>Composit>RF

>>1264496
I'd rather a DVI, but whatever. HDMI and DVI(9 times out of 10) are digital signals, so you really can't compare.

For Analog signals
RGB>/=Component>S-Video>Composite>RF

>>1264501
Alright

Good to know

What's the main difference in between RGB and component? They use the same colors, don't they?

>>1264502
RGB is just that; Red Green and Blue signals on separate wires.

Component is Luma(black and white "Intensity")on one wire, with the others carrying the red when compared to luma and blue when compared to luma.

A bit of math, and you get the green and as such, the complete picture.

>>1264502
Component gets rid of unnecessary data but is basically the same thing.

>>1264507
>>1264510
So what wires carry the Luma on RGB?

I'd like a layout of what cables do what

I've also heard something about an external sync with RGB

Also, is any modding needed for these two formats?

>>1264515
It seems that Wikipedia is having a hard time separate RGB and Component

>>1264515
>So what wires carry the Luma on RGB?
All the colors on the screen (black and white included) are made out of red, green, and blue, so you don't require a dedicated luma signal.

>I've also heard something about an external sync with RGB
That's timing for "writing" shit on to the screen and such. Without it, you get a rolling image. Component needs syncing as well, but that information is just sent along side luma in that case.

>Also, is any modding needed for these two formats?
For your consoles?
Some do, some don't
RGB standard:
SMS
Sega Genesis 1/2
Saturn
Dreamcast(VGA is also an option here, if you want 480p)
SNES1
PAL Gamecube
PAL Wii
PS1/PS2
AES/MVS


Modding Required:
Genesis 3
SNES2
TG16
N64(Early models only)
NTSC Wii(?)(Softmod region change?

No RGB:
NES(Can technically replace PPU with one from PlayChoice or VS machine; alternatively, Titler)
NTSC Gamecube

You can get component from a PS2, or from a Gamecube(Expect to pay $100+ for the cable); Also the Wii

>>1264529
Alright.

That makes sense

Thanks

>>1264529
Do any of those systems that support RGB also support component with the right cable?

>>1264549
PAL Gamecube(Same expensive cable as NTSC)/PAL Wii
PS2, and as such PS1 games.

I believe there have been talks of component from an SNES with modding, but I'm not entirely sure on where that's at currently.

Shockingly enough, the Colecovision can be modded for component.

>>1264553
Ah, alright

I meant out of the ones that are listed up there that are compatible with RGB. If you can also get Component out without modding

And it doesn't surprise me that the Colecovision can be modded for it. I looked up an RCA composite mod for the Atari 2600 and its relatively straight forward. The circuits are so simple, yet sometimes hard to work on.

>>1264557
>I meant out of the ones that are listed up there that are compatible with RGB. If you can also get Component out without modding
That's what I posted. Out of all of those systems, those are the ones that support component.

>The circuits are so simple, yet sometimes hard to work on.
It's not so much the circuits being simple as it is the chip actually outputting the format.

>>1264562
Alright, yeah

Well, thanks for the help

Any difference between a regular Trinitron and a Trinitron XBR?

>>1264529
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=47617

This is a nice solution for NES RGB.

N64 RGB is only easily accessible via early French PAL models and early NTSC model. You can technically get RGB from any model though.

A region change would make the Wii output RGB - but only if you changed it to PAL. I used to have a PAL Wii and an RGB cable and the image would be red if I region changed it to JP or US. Component cable is possible though.

And you can get RGB from an NTSC GameCube if you have a D-Terminal cable or component cable and modify it. I have performed this modification myself in the past.

http://www.mmmonkey.co.uk/console/nintendo/gc-rgb.htm

I would recommend browsing mmmonkey's site if you're interested in console modification too - although most of it is aimed at PAL machines.

Worth noting that every PC Engine needs modding for RGB, as does the Famicom and AV Famicom and that the Snes Jr (NTSC-J version fo the SNES 2) doesn't require modification for RGB.

>>1264630
XBR were the high end models that usually had better tubes, more inputs and better sound.

The are better than normal trinitrons, but just below PVMs.

>>1264631
>And you can get RGB from an NTSC GameCube if you have a D-Terminal cable or component cable and modify it.
You still need the $100+ cable.

>Worth noting that every PC Engine needs modding for RGB,
I had that listed, only as the TurboGrafix.

>Famicom
As above, I was using western names.

>>1264647
I'm aware. Famicom needs modification for AV out at least though - slightly different to a NES.

As for the cable, you can get lucky and get it cheaper if you're smart. My D-Terminal cable was £20 on eBay for example. Just have to be patient or get lucky in a store I guess.

>>1264649
I got mine for £53; And then another $20 for the adapter.

>>1264653
Adapter?

>>1264654
D-Terminal to 3RCA.

>>1264658
Oh, I just took a SCART plug and the cable that came with my Cube and made a cable.

Sold that lot a while back on eBay though, use a PAL machine now with official RGB cable that someone kindly donated to me. Most of the games worth playing are 60Hz anyway so it's okay.

>>1264661
Only SCART cable I have is my SNES one, and I wasn't planning on chopping it up.

>>1263913
Your poor Genesis wants to be heard in stereo sooooo baaaaadly. Get yourself a dang y-cable already. Plus your SNES (if it's the right model) and newer consoles really would prefer to use that S-Video jack if possible. Won't you please heed the cries of your hardware?

>>1264669
Not him, but how do you get the Genesis in Stereo? I have a Model 2.

>>1264803

See pic.

>>1264803
Model 2 Genesis has stereo sound output on the A/V jack itself. Model 1 needs a cable from the headphone jack.

>>1264809
>>1264812
Hmm. I'm at work now but will check when I get home. All I have is RF and Power. What cable do I need?

>>1264817
RGB SCART.

>>1264351
I believe that since that TV will display composite video that it will most likely display analog RGB but we won't know for sure until he tries it. At worst, he can make a cable and plug his computer into it and have a very convincing MAME box.

>>1264831

The problem with the Genesis/Megadrive 2 RGB cable is that it's so shitty that it's parasited by everything around including itself, making the RGB output look worst than composite (but still better than RF).

>>1264056
>>1264105
>>1264148
Hey guys. Seller gave me the model number. It's KV 1970R. TV is from 1985.
I tried Googling the model number, but I can't find manuals. Then again, I'm on my phone.

>>1264510
See >>1259505 and rethink what you just said.

>>1264851
First google result for "KV-1970R":
https://docs.sony.com/release/KV1970R.PDF

This thread needs bumped with some simple truths.

IN TERMS OF QUALITY
Analog Component (YPbPr/"YUV") = RGB/S (RGB SCART/BNC)

You will not notice any difference at all in sharpness, latency, brightness or color between the two as anyone with a PVM that does both can tell you.

The practical difference is entirely convenience. If you live in the USA it's easy to find a TV with "Component" inputs and hard to find one with RGB. If you live in Europe it's easy to find a TV with SCART but hard to find one with YPbPr.

Finally, RGB SCART can be converted to component easily and with negligible loss as stated here
>>1259553

Even though I have a PVM, I think that the smartest thing for USfags is to use one of these adapters to connect their retro systems to inexpensive thrift store TVs via component - we even had a guy start a thread a couple days ago specifically thanking us for steering him in this direction.

>>1259553
Would something like this be the right kind of adapter?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/200581819388

>>1265025
Yup that's exactly what is needed to break audio out of the scart cable before it goes into the transcoder. I can't for the life of me figure out why the people who make the transcoder didn't include audio channels unless it was to minimize interference or something.

But yes there have been people who bought the transcoder and then had to play in silence for a while because they didn't realize that so I try to always point it out.

I will go ahead and specifically say that PVMs will have better pictures than consumer sets with Component but that has nothing to do with RGB vs Component and everything to do with build quality. They are simply more expensive displays intended for professionals.

But even if you are lucky enough get a PVM for as cheap as a consumer TV, you will still need to build yourself a cable or buy an overpriced ine online that could very well cost you just as much as the SCART-to-YUV transcoder, which is just simple plug and play.

>>1265025
That's a normal composite scart adapter. You need component, not composite.

>>1265067
You need both.

>>1260892
How does one get this kind of image from CvS2 on Gamecube?

>>1264839
Explain please. I don't know what you mean by "parasited."

>>1264637
There are many different PVMs - those with consumer grade standard Trinitrons, "Super fine pitch" Trinitrons (like XBR), and later HR Trinitrons. And on top of this, depending on model they may have broadcast-grade phosphors (SMPTE or EBU depending on region).

>>1264887
That "HIT" front RF input is crazy. I thought there was just one 14" Sony set that had this but I guess there's more. Also that "microcomputer" silhouette is obviously a Hit-Bit MSX.

>>1264839
You must have bought a shitty cable or something because RGB is fine on my MD2. Not all MD2s are created equal - there are at least three different video encoder ICs used on various board revisions. I think the one in mine is Samsung? I forget. But I thought that affected composite/s-video output more than RGB...

>>1265245

Take a look at the antenna of a radio/alarm. Most of the time, you can see it's a simple wire. That means that any wire can be used as an antenna if it doesn't have enough protection, thus is sensible to electromagnetic waves.

And if this kind of wire already have a signal running through, it can also serve as an emitter of electromagnetic wave (the range depend on how powerful the signal is).

Now imagine is inside a cable, every wires have enough protection not to cause a short circuit, but not to stop them from being electromagnetic wave emitters AND receivers. All the cables emit and receive signals from each others at the same time, altering the information that we wanted to transmit at first and mixing it with some of the informations transmitted on other wires. That phenomenon is called "parasite", because it's something undesirable that happens to informations sent in cables that doesn't have the protection it need.

>>1265283

I don't own one myself (I own a Megadrive Model 1), but a friend have one and his cable is pretty shitty. The worst is it's the original one.

>>1263793
Every PVM "VTR" connector I've seen is like this (pic), and corresponds to the EIAJ VTR connector being used only for bi-directional composite video and audio. Many old Japanese VTRs (e.g. U-Matic) would have had these connectors.

There seemed to be some mis-appropriation of the same connector for TTL RGB at some stage, maybe only on US export models? But they clearly say "RGB" and not "VTR" - there's no video tape format that uses RGB signals so it would be useless for them.

As mentioned by several others, "digital" or TTL RGB is useless except for CGA PCs and some other old shit. >>1263763 >>1263689
will be no good for analogue RGBS which is what most systems use.

>>1265284
Ha, I only have myself to blame for your post. It was just a matter of definitions based on how you used the word "parasited"; I understand crosstalk and interference!

>>1265289
Buy your friend some cheap little ferrite core chokes.

>>1265313
I think he's just not a native English speaker ("sensible to electromagnetic waves" barely makes sense, for example). It's not common terminology in English - it's just interference or RFI/EMI if you want to be more specific.

In electronics there is parasitic capacitance, parasitic oscillation, parasitic elements, etc. but this is more in reference to PCB and IC design.

>>1265319
He'll need more than that. The main problem with shitty RGB SCART cables is either the lack of shielded cable (you're fucked with such shitty thin wires without it), or the lack of the "blanking signal" on Pin 16 which most TVs require in order to accept the RGB input and not just show shitty composite.

I've purchased 3 PlayStation RGB SCART cables in the past few months trying to find one that doesn't have one/both of the above problems, and have had no luck at all so I think I'll have to just build my own - the problem is finding an "AV Multi" connector that can be dismantled/re-soldered because these cheap cables also have cheap shitty connectors.

>>1265343

>"sensible to electromagnetic waves" barely makes sense

Well, i though it was correct. That means I need to . Thanks for pointing out my mistakes.

Anyway, to be fair, I alway heard about "parasites" in stuff like analog synthesizers or badly shielded cables, or anything that has to do with analog signals. Maybe we don't use this world often in English when it comes to electronic.

>>1265397
I think you were looking for the word "sensitive" rather than "sensible".

FUCK

So I bought the Innovation S-Video cable like a couple of you here on /vr/ recommended.

It's found here. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000P6R46W/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Look at it.

Now look at my image. This is what I got in the mail.

An anon said
>generally if they have both S-video and composite video (yellow RCA) then the S-video is probably just composite wired to two pins, which is garbage.

DAMMIT
Is it really going to be a huge problem? Fuck, I'm pretty bummed out right now. I haven't tried out the cable yet, but still...

My Trinitron (PVM-8044q) has inputs labeled "R/R-Y","G/Y","B/B-Y".
Is this an entirely different thing than YPbPr and YCbCr?

>>1265468
>I haven't tried out the cable yet
So try it out. Worst case scenario is you ask for a refund since it's not the item you bought.

>>1265479
No, it's YPbPr. That's how they're labeled on my 20m2mdu

>>1265479
>"R/R-Y","G/Y","B/B-Y".
>Is this an entirely different thing than YPbPr and YCbCr?
YCbCr is the digital variant and has nothing to do with analog technology.
Also on the first page of the service manual it says that these inputs are terminated with 75 ohms and should be 0.7Vpp. Sync on green (0.3Vpp) is supported and it's likely that this applies to the component mode (and if not then you need an sync stripper).
These inputs should be directly compatible to YPbPr, you just need to get three RCA to BNC adapters.

>>1265481
Okay, just tried it out.


I saw no noticeable difference between S-Video and RedWhiteYellow.

>>1265551
By the way, I tested it on N64 playing Diddy Kong Racing.... if that helps at all.

Other reviewers of the product on Amazon are reporting the same thing. They got the cable I got.

>>1265468
Too many people are going cheap on Amazon. You can't really do that...Amazon allows sellers to be really devious or ignorant about what they're really selling, because they are trusted blindly by Amazon to sell under pre-existing item listings with pictures and descriptions that may or may not apply to the actual item being sold.

The only things I buy on Amazon from non-Amazon sellers have to be described 100% accurately by the seller themselves. Otherwise, enjoy buying Greatest Hits games at original game prices, fake cables, "brand new" items that have been opened, etc.

>>1265587
I had the same problem with a Marketplace seller on Amazon.co.uk - I thought I was buying a decent quality PlayStation RGB SCART cable when what I really got was a cheap piece of shit without the correct wiring. They gave me a refund but still have not removed the incorrect listing and there seems to be no way to report it to Amazon :|

>>1265551
>>1265558
Look at edges. Do you see a difference in dot crawl? One quick and easy screen I liked to use back in the day is the "Licensed by Nintendo" screen for Street Fighter II The World Warrior on SNES...the dot crawl is easy to spot on the letters and it's the first screen on a game and console I had hooked up almost permanently.

If you have a TV or device without a comb filter or with a bad one, try using that to compare. The best comb filters can minimize dot crawl fairly well, and a TV with a good comb filter would make comparison more difficult.

>>1265587
>>1265594


Should I just return it and order another one, hoping I get the CORRECT cable?
Btw, the brand name of the cable I got was "Tomee", not fucking innovation like the listing said.

>>1265601
I have a Sony Trini, non-flat screen.

I have SF2 on Genesis, however, that's via RF. I'll try it with Super Mario World.

Ok, CRT general, I just had a thought.
I have a Famicom AV, and a PAL N64. I recall nintendo of japan releasing S Video cables for the gamecube, and I was wondering, considering the AV cables are backwards compatible, would any one here know if I would just be good right off the bat, buying a couple of these? Or will they give me strife?

Thanks.

>>1265630
I think I remember reading that the PAL N64 doesn't do S-Video.

>>1265630
The picture would be too bright, due of missing components.
http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=av:nintendomultiav

I have this little Toshiba.. Not sure what type of model it is but it's probably the best five dollars I ever spent at Goodwill. It has composite, component, and s-video.

>>1265097
That is using a SCART cable and the TV has a deinterlace mode which adds the scanlines.

>>1265635
Ah, thanks.

With that considered, I then not buy the Gamecube Scart cable either? Or am I wrong?

>>1265607
I'm sorry that I don't know the best course of action...I've been fortunate enough and careful enough to avoid surprises. I just notice way too many people getting burned on incorrectly listing their own items.

I'm actually considering selling some non-game stuff on Amazon one of these days, funny enough. If I do I'll be sure to describe every last tiny detail accurately.

>>1265612
Any large, colored object on a black background would be easiest to tell. First time I witnessed S-Video vs. composite was 1992 using that SF2 license screen, and I'll *never* forget how impressed I was. I'd bought my TV the previous year hoping to take advantage of S-video for games, and I was so glad that I did as soon as I first used that cable. BTW, I still have that cable with the original kinks in it; it's comfy to look at sometimes.

>>1265640
Model #, please. I *really* like early-2000s Toshibas.

>>1265651
N64 doesn't output RGB by default.

>>1265634
It does, what it doesnt do is RGB(scart)

>>1265660
>I just notice way too many people getting burned on incorrectly listing their own items.
*burned by other people incorrectly listing their items.

>>1265662
As someone who owns a PAL N64 you have that mixed up.

The PAL N64 doesnt do S-video or RGB.

>>1265660
looks to be 14AF45

Toshiba 14" FST Pure Flat Screen from May 05

>>1265681
Made in Thailand, by any chance?

>>1265678
First result on google for "pal n64 s-video":
http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=3460.0

>>1265683
yeah, Im satisfied with it. Once I find a Sony PVM for decent I'll be replacing it.

>>1265678
My s-video cable does work, but its one of those crappy fake ones, something like >>1265468 posted but has connectors for n64/ps1/dreamcast.

>>1265695
Well if you're in California, I'd gladly take the little Toshiba off your hands once you do.

how do I get anything other than composite out of my consoles? heres a pic of what I have >>1264357

Currently thats all they're running on, and I dont have any other types of cables, but I do have an S-video input on my tv.
Is it even possible to get anything else without modding them?

>>1265723
easiest and cheapest way probably is s-video, or scart if you have that on your tv, but it varies from console to console

>>1265693
>requires modding

>>1265704
That cable doesnt output S-video, it is just wired to the composite plug.

>>1265660
No, thank you for your help.
Played NBA jam. 15 minutes on Composite. 15 with S-Vid.


I still have not noticed a big distinction and difference between using my composite cables and the S-Video cable I got from Amazon.

Gonna return it and order another one, hopefully I get the right one this time.
Then again, this S-Vid cable might be fine, might just be my eyes,

>>1265769
>requires modding
More like it requires an cable that contains these components. Modding the console is optional.

Are there any CRTs that could deal with the 480p output from the wii? or is progressive scan too rare?

>>1265840
That defeats the point of getting an SDTV. Yes, there are HD CRT-TVs.

>>1265846
I thought HD CRTs had input lag. How am I supposed to enjoy muh progressive scan?

>>1265874
Don't listen to the zealots too much, there were plenty of "HD Ready" CRT's sold just before the growth of cheap large format 1080p LCD's. I had a Hitachi 32" that was 1440x1080p native and had progressive component inputs, vga, s-video, the works - just no HD tuner. It was heavy as a mofo, but IQ for Gamecube and PS2 (the few games that supported progressive) was beautiful. Input lag was non-existant. I know a lot of people who had Sony WEGA CRT's of some sort that were equally happy.

Realistically the only TV's you'll find with measurable input lag are early cheap plasmas (up to 100ms!) and most LCD's.

>>1265874
>I thought HD CRTs had input lag.
Just more confusion being spread by people making unqualified generalizations in these threads.

CRTs only have lag when you feed them a non-native signal. Mos CRT ED/HDTVs can do 480p natively the same way SD CRTs can do SD resolutions natively.

/CRTgen/, what are the best adapters to connect component to BNC? I hear cheap ones can degrade signal quality, and there are over 1,000 results for BNC-to-RCA adapters on eBay.

>>1265921
They are simple adapters, just get cheap ones.

>>1265921
I just use cheap ones i got from Hong Kong for like a dollar and the quality is fine.

>>1265932
>>1265946
Yeah I don't know where he would have heard that.

Am I asking for trouble looking at a 14" pvm made in 1994? Screen quality looks great, but the seller isn't the original owner and doesn't have a clue how many hours it's had. Only $50, though.

>>1266094
I'd go for it

>>1266094
If it's local, that's not a terrible deal.

I'd try talking them down closer to $30 though, personally.

Are philips and Siemens monitor any good?

I can get a couple of 14" ones cheap but it says they are security ones.

>>1266135
They're most likely black and white

Is there a list of recommended PC CRT monitors?

>>1266094
What is the other monitor Sony made? I know there's PVM but what's the other one? The name is escaping me

>>1266158
profeel and BVM

>>1266146
Just learn the features you want and hunt down a good one.

>>1266146

I have a 17-inch Dell shadowmask CRT that has a dot pitch of 0.27 mm and fairly long phosphor persistence so 60hz isn't flickery. Low resolutions look extremely good on it.

>>1265284
I've never heard it called parasite, but rather parasitic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasitic_element_%28electrical_networks%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasitic_capacitance

>>1266190
Note that the tradeoff for for less flicker is blurrier motion, although if you're playing old DOS games the framerate will usually be low enough that it won't matter. Jazz Jackrabbit is one notable exception.

>>1265801
>>1265607
>>1265558
>>1265551
>>1265468
Shit man, I'm so sorry. I'm the one who posted the Amazon link the other day. I bought my Innovation S-video cable on eBay, but couldn't find a current listing when I made my post, I figured the Amazon listing was the same, I really should have read the reviews, I'm so fucking sorry.

I went back to the eBay seller I got mine from, cheapgamestuff, and found the exact cable I purchased back in August still in his store:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/S-Video-SVHS-Cable-Nintendo-N64-SNES-Gamecube-Game-Cube-/181243892191?pt=US_Video_Game_Cables_Adapters&hash=item2a32fa51df

And here's a shitty pic of it on my bed, has S-video and the left and right audio channels, with no composite video at all. Came in an official Innovation box.

It sounds like you've already filed for a refund with Amazon's customer service team, but I strongly urge you to cancel your order from "Able Provider" and go with the eBay listing I linked, and I apologize again about the hassle.

>>1266369
I have one of those all-in-one cables that has Nintendo, Sega, and Xbox 360 ends on it as well as component, composite and Svideo. I know they get a bad rep for being unterminated and they don't, in fact, work if they're hooked to multiple (plugged in) consoles at once but I DO believe them to be wired right because my SNES Mini didn't put out Svideo through them, which was how I learned they don't.

>>1266369
Here is the cable that i got.

It works great.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/360782420507

So, I had this flatscreen Philips CRT lying around that accepted component input. However, it has rather shitty geometry (see picture), noticeable blur in the corners and some convergence issues along the left and right sides, especially the right. The latter two aren't very noticeable in-game, but the geometry really is. I tried looking for a relevant service manual to try and adjust the geometry, but I couldn't find one for my specific model . Due to this, I want to try and get something better.

Should I aim exclusively for a PVM or will any non-flat Trinitron/aperture grille television with component input give me great results?

>>1266918
Doesn't look too bad to me. Do you have it sitting on top of a speaker? Both my every day Trinitrons have a bit of a twist like this from sitting on speakers.

>>1266094
1994 is fine.

>>1266094
PVM-1344Q? Looks like it does RGB and YPbBr, which should make things easier for you assuming you're in the US.

I have a PVM-1442QM which is the Euro version of the same thing without YPbBr, and mine's from 1991. I'm starting to see retrace lines and some other shittyness on black screens, but otherwise it's pretty damn good (see >>1265283) and hopefully I'll be able to fix it with recalibration (I've got a copy of the service manual) if I ever get my ass in gear and actually do it.

If the picture looks good and is free of obvious burn-in I'd say go for it.

>>1266918
I really can't see anything out of the ordinary in this picture - most of what you describe are limitations of typical flat-screen CRT TV sets.

For getting the service menu, I'd suspect you'd be better off trying to find out the chassis model rather than looking for the specific model - Philips would have used the same chassis on many different models for different markets, different sizes, different features, etc.

>>1265892
>1440x1080p native
CRTs don't have native resolutions.

>>1265894
>CRTs only have lag when you feed them a non-native signal. Mos CRT ED/HDTVs can do 480p natively the same way SD CRTs can do SD resolutions natively.
Well the problem there is that if they can do progressive scan and HD resolutions they may not necessarily be able to do SD resolutions "natively" i.e. they will go through some sort of A/D conversion or other processing/de-interlacing that will reduce picture quality and introduce input lag. Many of these TVs also have problems with 240p signals. There are also some which do 100/120 Hz motion interpolation which will just turn games to shit. Panasonic were a fan of this with their high-end CRT sets for a while.

I think trying to look for a CRT that will do both SD and ED/HD resolutions will only result in compromises.

TBH I play SD games on my PVM, and anything else (including DC) on my LCD HDTV or LCD computer monitor.

>>1267518
>Well the problem there....
No problems. Somebody was asking about 480p, fullstop.

>Ew, anon, why do you have that old big TV?
>But it's old!
Sometimes I have to hold back so much from these morons.

>Dudebros playing N64
>on HDTV
>stretched to 16:9
Ow my eyes are fucking bleeding.

>>1267585
>Because it was cheap as hell and I think my old games look a million times better on it than on a flatscreen.

Unless you don't want them knowing you play retro games (hiding that power level), I can't imagine many people I'd be having over to my place that wouldn't understand that.

>>1268206
Ever since I hooked up the distribution amp and I often have the same thing on the CRT and the LCD at the same time it becomes obvious why I have the CRT.

my CRT is a sanyo that is very similar in size to this. it has 2 sets of composite jacks and an s-video port. i got it for free. howd i do /vr/?

>>1265840
There are some EDTV (480p) sets that do native 480i and 480p. (Tri-mode arcade monitors fall into this category - and support crazy 24KHz Sega mode too.)

Most HD CRTs that you will find can only scan native 1080i and 480p (and 540p and 960i but that's a trivial difference). They will upscale 480i signals. Sony's HD Wega sets behave like this. Their "DRC" upscaler is very good, though, and I've never had a problem with it and old video games.

>>1265874
At least on the pre-ATSC Sony DA4 sets (HS420 etc) you could enable a mode called "HDPO" which would pass 1080i and 480p signals straight to the video amp with no digital processing. This seems to have been removed on the all-digital models (XS955, XBR960/970).

>>1265892
>1440x1080p native
I have a hard time believing you had a 1080p CRT TV.

>>1265894
>CRTs only have lag when you feed them a non-native signal.
"Digital" CRT televisions will introduce a small amount of lag no matter what. Again, they usually have a pass-through available via the service menu.

>>1267585
I make sure all of my friends get a taste of the video autism. They never question the tubes again.

>>1268237
You can't go wrong with free. Sanyos aren't great or anything but starting anywhere is a good thing. Svideo is definitely a good thing.

>>1268251

This guy. Once you tell 'em what's interesting in tubes, why you use them, and why in comparison LCD sucks when it comes to retro gaming (propose them to see how Quake 3 run on an LCD and a CRT, side by side, for example), they will either respect your decision and your knowledge, or spout faggot arguments (but muh size! but they're so heavy!).

>>1265946
You got ripped off bro. They're HK$3 on Ap Liu Street.

>>1266369
Hi friend.

Thanks for your post man. No worries! No need to be sorry!
Yep, I got my refund from Amazon for it. It's currently 3AM here and that other S-Vid cable that I ordered from "Able Provider" is arriving tomorrow. Hoping it''s the right one. If not, I'll just process a return again, no biggie.

Because I found one on eBay as well :-)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261335664298?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

The seller's item description is so great because it reads:
>"There is NO composite cable for the best possible video connection".
I chuckled and smiled a bit

Thoughts?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/400625091636

>>1268778
That was for a set of 10.

>>1266302
Hawt

I don't have any RGB modded consoles because I suck at modding stuff. Could this computer monitor be used for anything good? Someone close by is selling it for $10.

>>1269114
Post model number or at least H/V sync ranges.

Protip: If you see someone spouting wisdom and talking about a CRTs native resolution it's probably best to do the exact opposite of what they say because they're full of shit.

>>1269152
Most consumer HD CRTs have one or two native resolutions they use. I haven't seen a truly multiscan CRT TV in a long time - it's much easier to design the analog electronics to scan a single format and then digitally upscale everything to that. Multiscan PC monitors are common, of course.

>>1269278
Thanks for proving the point

>>1269114
That has straight RGB and what looks like VGA in. I'd jump on it for 10 dollars

>>1269583
I threw away several 21" SUN monitors like this just a very few years ago.

>>1269080
Nice microwave

>>1269292
I'm not sure I understand. What do you mean?

>>1269583
The RGB input isn't going to be much use if it can't sync 15KHz.

>>1269292
Proving what point?

>>1269613
CRTs only have a range of scan rates with no set pixel resolution.

Will a GameCube play fine via composite or S-Video?

I apologize for speaking about the GameCube

>>1270219
Yeah, but you're better off using the Wii with component.

>>1270223
Ah, alrighty. Thanks.

>>1269278
>>1269837
You guys are both correct, the misunderstanding comes from the definition of the term "native resolution".

>>1269837
Right, they've only got a defined vertical resolution, as well as a maximum horizontal resolution determined by the pitch of the mask/grille and the bandwidth of the video amp.

What's the best tri-sync monitor?

I just modified the cheap S-video cable i bought.

The pins were all wrong, they had the s-video connected to composite so i just moved the pin to the correct spot.

I also soldered two 75ohm resistors on the luma and chroma pins, now the image doesnt have the checkerboard pattern and isnt too bright.

Although now i need to buy another cable to use with my NTSC AV famicom.

>>1271354
care to post some pictures?

>>1271371
Best i can do for now.

You need to move the composite video pin to the next slot over for it to work properly.

And you only have to add the resistors if you have a PAL console.

>>1271395
how did you move the pin over and what direction do you move it?

Got this phillips crt from a friend as a gift. It looks like a late model, 3 scart ports and 1 composite. got it connected to my old ps1 and playing wipeout 2097. is it good?

>>1271416
You will need to desolder the pin to get it out, and you just move it to the slot next to ground.

>>1271486
Your pic is way too blurry to really tell - also 3D games aren't the best way to judge.

>>1271486
Is it widescreen?

Could be a HD model.

>>1271498
it's the only game i managed to get working on my rustbucket of a playstation. Here's a better pic of it. Sorry about the quality. damn phone camera
>>1271509
Yes it is widescreen. It's a late model, around 2004 and above i think. It certainly wouldn't be a hd model, don't crts only support resolutions up to 480i?

>>1271529
>don't crts only support resolutions up to 480i?
HDCRT TVs support up to 1080i. And obviously, PCCRT monitors support much higher

>>1271529
CRTs can display any resolution they are designed to. I was still using a CRT monitor as late as 2006 because of that amazing motion quality. It could easily display resolutions that were considered high at the time.

Most CRT TVs are standard definition, but that has to do with that being the standard.

>>1271540
huh. so it would be a hd model then?

>>1271553
So many crts could keep up with new design standards if they were built for that?

>>1271490
So how did you get the end off of the cable without ruining it?

>>1271564
I can't imagine why not. People don't use CRTs anymore because they weigh a ton.

>>1271573
protip: cut wires can be reconnected

>>1271598
There are 70" HDTVs at Walmart these days. By my calculations a 70" CRT would literally weigh a ton.

>>1271598
i know. this beast weighed just under 90 pounds. it was a pain to get through the doors and into this room. It looks good though.