/vr/ - Retro Games

>>1238759

>>1238759
>I user RetroArch with the build in Linear filter, and a 3 pass NTSCS S-Video shader mostly (pic related).

TOO BLURRY

>>1238759

>Emulation threads in /vr/

Looks like a blurry picture from a Nintendo Power magazine.

I kinda like it.

>>1238759
>n Linear filter,

Not needed.

>and a 3 pass NTSCS S-Video shader

Maister's NTSC shader is too blurry.

Also, does it even do the color correction?

>>1238925

/v/ in /vr/

SUPER EAGLE FTW SUPER EAGLE FTW SUPER EAGLE FTW SUPER EAGLE FTW SUPER EAGLE FTW SUPER EAGLE FTW SUPER EAGLE FTW SUPER EAGLE FTW

CRT-Geom or bust.

>>1239065
ew those scanlines look really fake

>>1239071

Define "scanlines" and an example of what doesn't "look really fake"

>NTSC scanlines.
Do any of these filters support PAL scanlines, which suck significantly less?

>>1239093
Only way I could see such a thing more or less happen given current resolution limitations is if they made a shader that only blackened every fourth line, like this.

Recreating CRTs is a very difficult thing as things now stand. We just don't have the resolution for it.

>>1239124
good god is that ugly.

>>1239082

Well here's some real CRT scanlines for comparison

>>1238925
stop using that ugly dyke for reaction images, although I do agree, filters are by faggots for faggots

>>1239183
What about filters that do color correction?
Or filters that smooth out dithering without messing with the rest of the image?
Or filters that hide rounding errors from non-integer scale factors?

http://emulation-general.wikia.com/wiki/Shaders_and_Filters
http://emulation-general.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_shaders_and_filters

>>1239192
I need a filter to correct the colors? That just makes me angry, why aren't the fucking colors correct in the first place. I thought emulators strove for accuracy, all that shit just sounds like shit that should have been done anyways.

>>1239192
>gamma ramp.png

On the right, are you using the gammaramp.cg shader for RetroArch? I've found it both extremely too strong AND very inaccurate. Left in this image is Higan and right is RA. As you see the shader in RA is very strong and does not match HIgan, eventhough it should.

http://libretro.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=977

Hunterk made a better gamma correction shader. The actual effect is very subtle but nice.

>>1239209
What emulators display is the raw color data straight off the game. However, the actual colors come out a bit different on TVs.

>>1239209
>I need a filter to correct the colors? That just makes me angry, why aren't the fucking colors correct in the first place. I thought emulators strove for accuracy, all that shit just sounds like shit that should have been done anyways.

They're thinking about doing that, at least byuu.

See, "emulators" focus on the core of the console itself. However, the NTSC cables would change the colors slightly and this was used in SNES games. So you need one of blargg's NTSC shaders if you want to have "accurate" snes colors.

And you need slight gamma correction from >>1239215 if you want correct gamma.

The effect is subtle, but nice. You'll notice in Chrono Trigger the areas outside a room are kind of dark browny. With gamma and NTSC color correction they show up as lack, as they should.

I think it was byuu who was thinking about adding NTSC color correction to the system itself.

>>1239209

The emulator outputs a raw image, it's up to the frontend to apply processing in the form of shaders and filters to actually make the image appear correct.

3x integer nearest neighbor followed by bilinear to the correct aspect ratio. No ringing, clear pixels, sharp without being excessively sharp, extremely fast. Perfect for pixel art.

But image quality of minor important compared to motion quality. I use software black frame insertion on a 120Hz LCD. Not as sharp as a CRT, but a huge improvement over 60Hz sample-and-hold.

>>1239234
>bilinear

Bilinear has always been too blurry and not really accurate. Using RGB cables on a CRT the image is really sharp, and even on composite its much sharper than bilinear on a LCD.

This is largely why I stick to CRTs.

>>1239215

Higan doesn't have the same gamma ramp that old bsnes had. Gamma ramp was an option in bsnes circa v73 that shifted the gamma to what an average CRT had. Later versions removed this option (and a whole lot of others)

>>1239241
3x nearest neighbor prefiltering is sharp enough for me. Increase the scale factor or use Lanczos for the post-filtering if you want it sharper.

My setup is about as sharp as a CRT with line tripling (which is what I used back when I still used a CRT).

>>1239234

Pixellate shader is even sharper with only one pixel blur for correcting rounding errors

>>1239250
I rather like how CRT-Geom looks at 4x scale with the image prescaled by 2x. You get no scanlines, and you get a nice balance between sharp and smoothed. Only issue is very mild ringing on some areas.

captcha: rings htteepa

>>1239250
As a comparison, here's the same image with pure bilinear, no pre-filtering. Obviously it looks like shit.

>>1239265
Slower for a barely noticeable difference.

>>1239275

Pixilate aims for sublte changels to look more like neiarst neightbor

>>1239275

>slower

Unless you're using an Android device with their weak GPUs, that really doesn't matter very much in this case

It's easier to just use pixellate than try to set up prescale with stock shaders

>>1239280
It has the exact same goal as my setup, but is marginally sharper. In practice you're not going to notice the difference in play.

>>1239284

>can't notice the difference between pixilate and bilinear

top lel

It's so obvious.

You can use something like blur.cg, which is basically bilinear with a level adust.

>>1239287
>blur.cg

What setting would give me something that corresponds with blarg NTSC -RGB for snes?

>>1239287
Blur (pure bilinear) is >>1239271
Bilinear with prescaling is this >>1239234
I don't have a setup for GPU shaders but I've seen screenshots of pixellate. My setup looks extremely similar.

nearest neighbor scale at 2x -> full scale with billinear. I've tried many filters and shaders, but nothing ever looks as good as this in my opinion. You can see the pixels, but they aren't in your face. Plus, the slight blur corrects for rounding errors when scaling to non-integer resolutions.

>>1239326
Somebody else has the same idea as me. I prefer 3x prescale, but 2x is fine too.

>>1239183

>Inuitinua
>"ugly dyke"

Them's fightin' words.

>>1239658
I don't even know who that is, im just sick of seeing those fuzzy caterpillars on her face.

>>1239250
>>1239326
>>1239330

personally i found that 3X scale seems to mimic the pixel size on old games/CRT the best. and i also prefer adding scanlines to it , with 30-50% transparency for console games just for the silly nostalgic "TV" look. only problem is ePSX seems to slow down a lot when i try to use scanlines. any 3X scaler also badly slow down some DOS games.

for some games like sam and max hit the road, i think they look better with "cartoony" filterslike HQ, supereagle and 2xSai.

bilinear filters are a mixed bag for me. NTSC filters and super2Xsai look good on SOME games, but on some other games they create too much glitchy looking artifacts. annoying. hardly use them.

>filters

megaman_bosses.jpg

>>1239701
>im just sick of seeing those fuzzy caterpillars on her face.

>>1240241
Now i'm distracted by the granny blanket on her couch, is she 80 years old?

>>1240257

>2013
>Not loving a girl who knits

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-snSGxcaQw

>>1240282
>implying I don't love my mother
nothing wrong with knitting bro, its just that pattern just screams old woman so loudly. My grandma used to knit the same ones and matching pillow covers

Can anyone identify the black magic used to make pic related happen?
http://imgur.com/a/DUx8M#9
How do I replicate this?
I can't find shit.

>>1239234
OP here, thanks a lot for your replis anon. I cross my fingers that you're still around for my follow up questions:
So, I'm quite the rookie here, I don't seem to be able to locate in the RGUI or in the retroarch.cfg where i can set 3x nearest neighbor? I can only toggle between linear and nearest. That's it.

>>1239234
OP again, I think I figured it out. If i disable integer scale and use the pixellate.cg shader, I get a nice sharp look, but not as sharp as with pure nearest neighbor. I'll upload 2 pics, the first being integer scaled without shader, and the second will be non-integer scaled with pixellate.cg

>>1240851

>>1240851
pixellate.cg

>>1240857
>>1240854

I don't see any difference.

>>1241135
The first is much crisper due to the 4 x native resolution.

>>1241164
>crisper

muh nearest neighbor

>>1241164
they look like the exact same image except one is slightly bigger
is this what you filter people spend your time on? twiddling with settings for a difference most people can't even notice?

>>1241175
>is this what you filter people spend your time on? twiddling with settings for a difference most people can't even notice?

Yes. And where do you think you are? This is nerd central.

But, there is a big difference. The first image is "integer scaled". Which means that on a display, there's gonna be black borders around not just the sides, but the top and bottom.

With the second image, it's fills the entire screen. So the "point" of pixilate.cg is to have it fill the entire screen while making it look like integer scaled.

I really think pixilate should be the default shader for most emulators.

>>1241179
Thanks for your reply! There is still one thing that I'm unsure about, regarding the issue of getting close to the original. Should i enable or disable Crop Overscan? If I enable it, the picture gets stretched a little, but as far as I know, that's how they output it to real TVs?

>>1241194
For platforms like NES where you get palette glitches at the screen edge I might crop it, but for more modern platforms I definitely want to see all the pixels.

>>1241201
Do you consider SNES and N64 being more modern? I noticed it cropped som of the menu pixels on Final Fantasy VII when I played it, that was awful, but perhaps the way it was meant to be seen.

>>1241194

This is how CRT tvs worked. There's the display, and then around it there's a trim. Because of this, games allowed for "overscan". Read:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_safe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overscan

To simulate this on a digital flatpanel display, you have to "crop" it. So yes, enable it.

However, it's problematic with the NES. There seems to be NO standard for how much to crop. You need to crop a lot from SMB3, however that same level will obscure some lettering in Castlevania games. Standardization seems to have only come with the next gen after this.

Also, tvs themselves changed a lot and there was differences in the level of cropping. People with modern CRT tvs will have less overscan cropping on their displays, so for them playing nes games looks like you would with overscan not cropped. Post 9-11 many displays also showed more overscan at the bottom to show more of the news tickers.

I love how modern displays have much more sane standards.

>>1241205

There's the default values that Emulators use to crop overscan.

http://libretro.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=919

Using that shader, you can do any kind of overscan cropping you want to.

>>1241205
I don't crop SNES or N64.

>>1241223
Very nice, thank you!

I love this shader.

>using filters

Literally underage. You never played the fucking games, you're just checking boxes in your emulator and going "wow, this is so authentic!"

>>1245646
Nah, I just use NTSC or anti-dithering shaders when a lot of dithering is used, especially if the dithering is supposed to simulate transparency. That is as far as I go.
Pic related, fuck looking at raw pixels in moments like this.

>>1245668
Another picture for good measure.
Twinkle Tale is grainy as fuck with no filters or shaders or whatever. It's honestly kind of painful to look at.

OP here. I've played a around with a lot of combinations now, and I begin to realize how important NTSC filters are for me. It really boosts the nostalgia vibe.
So the question is: Blarggs original cpu filter og Themaisters shader?
My untrained eye tells me that Blarggs color correction is closer to what you would expect to see on an actual NTSC TV. I've snapped some screens for comparison, and it looks like Blargg correct the brownish color better than Themaister.

I'm not sure at all, so some feedback would be awesome.

>>1246031
And yes yes, I know the linear filtering is controversial, but it's more soothing to my eye than unfiltered pixels.

>>1246031

Yes, the color correction is essential. I believe byuu has discussed adding the color correction to bsnes itself without the need for a shader.

themaister's NTSC shader is really WIP.

Blargg's is much more accurate.

I'll never understand why people like this chunky 4x filter.

It only makes the visuals uglier and doesn't improve anything in the least. The scanline ones aren't so bad.

>>1239271
The moon edges, the sky, the lights the dome, the wings... yeah pretty much everything is improved by blending.

>>1246031

>>1239170
That picture also shows why games always look wrong in emulation. There are no hard edges on the original display, whereas on an emulator its a pixelated mess. I've never seen a filter that makes the games look right, so I usually just run some sort of moderately ugly filter to remove the rough edges if I play on PC.

>>1239170
Those look way more thick than they should. Looks more like you're running an emulator at 640x480 with simulated scanlines than true 320x240 with scanlines done by the monitor itself.

>>1249286
The brown background shouldn't be brown. Hence failed color correction.

>>1249328

On this monitor, 480p 60hz with 100% black scanlines and 240p 120hz with black frame insertion look exactly the same. 480p is just double the scanlines, so blanking out every other line has the same effect except 240p 120hz is brighter without black frame insertion (and the same brightness with it on)

That picture was definitely a 240p display mode, 3840x240 to be exact.

>>1249302

You can use NTSC filters or shaders to blur horizontally if that bothers you. That's just what it looks like if the console had pixel perfect RGBHV output to a monitor with a tight dot pitch.

Really once you start using CRT monitors like this, CRT TVs just look shitty in comparison.

So, for all of those who use filters to make it look like a CRT monitor, why not just get a CRT monitor? Not trying to flame, but I have wondered this often.

>>1250258
I feel the same way. Respect that people does it, but faking scanlines on a LCD or LED really hurts me eyes. It's about coming close to the original without causing too much eye strain. NTSC filters are the bomb though.

Game boy filter are pretty sick.

I like the XBR shader to simulate a HD experience.

>>1251182

>>1251187

>>1251189
>>1251187
>>1251182
I don't think it looks that great, honestly. Colors are a bit too strong and it hurts my eyes.

>>1251191
yeah, it makes everything look kind of out of focus

I just use crt-geom-flat-sharpness and the built-in linear filter. Looks pretty nice imo

>>1251265
I never liked how it looks at 3x scale. It's only at 4x where it truly shines IMO.

>>1251265
Doesn't your eyes get extremely tired in no time? I can feel my eyes watering, just by looking at the screendump.

>>1251279
See that I could get in board with! Looks amazing.

>>1251284
Keep in mind that was taken with PCSX-R, so it looks a tad better than it would on RetroArch due to the plugin's better color shading and slight increase in internal resolution.

>>1251289
Isn't Mednafen more accurate than PCSX?

>>1251294
It is. I would normally use it, but I'm using some ROM patches that Mednafen does not like for some reason, so I defaulted to PCSX-R for this game. Might as well take advantage of the slightly better picture quality while I'm at it.

>>1251297
Sure. It calms my emulation-OCD a bit to know that Mednafen is more accurate. But to be honest, I probably wouldn't be able to notice the difference anyway.

>>1251279
oh this does look better

hoooooly shit does the game boy filter look bizarre on non-game boy games

>>1251175
That really is the best gameboy filter. I wish VBA had that and also supported color mode and a version for GBA. VBA's dot filter is shit in comparison.

>>1249352
The brown background is brown in both images of Chrono because the game background is brown. That's not a filter issue, that's the game.

>>1251219
>>1251214

Smoothing shaders are trolling right?

SuperEagle is how i play everything. It is the most advanced shader out there. It antialiases. You just think you're retro, so the you don't understand smooth.

>>1252307
http://emulation-general.wikia.com/wiki/NTSC_Filters

"Many SNES games were developed with the color distortion from these cables in mind. Such as Chrono Trigger, with shifted values that make blacks look brown and borders look purple, which would be output properly with NTSC colors."