/vr/ - Retro Games

its shit

u should read the manual

>>1217314
Combat at low levels is very random and very lethal. There's a few fights in Candlekeep that are almost impossible to lose; don't let these fights fool you, if you're playing a fragile character like a mage or thief you can easily be murdered by a single wolf once you step outside the walls.

Once the intro is over and you're outside on your own, immediately go east and recruit the two shady characters. You may or may not want to keep them around permanently but you should definitely have them until you find other people.

Follow the initial quest, it will lead you to two more party members. At this point, assuming you've recruited everyone that you saw, you should have a full party of 6. You can always replace some or all of them as you find other candidates.

>>1217334
This. Track down a copy not only for the rules, but also the fluff. So much fluff.

In terms of gameplay, ranged weapons are your friend.

Install Baldur's Gate Trilogy so you can start with some of BG2's features and carry them over.

Or install Tutu if you want this adorable little jewnose bitch in your party prattling on about the reading rainbow.

>>1217345
>>1217346
>>1217334

Will do. I'm planning on eventually going through the the IE games to hype myself up for PE

>>1217352
Oh, and one more thing: save often and use multiple files. BG was kind of the beginning of the modern CRPG mentality but it still possesses enough sadistic oldschool edge that you can wind up royally fucked if you aren't familiar with the game and save over your only game in the wrong place at the wrong time.

>>1217362
And hoard everything.

You never know when it will come in handy.

I started playing it yesterday, pretty cool so far.

>>1218312
>Using Garrick
I'd advise you to pick up Kivan in High Hedge, rather than lugging that useless bard about while he soaks up levels. Minsc might also work if your protagonist isn't able to handle melee without dying.

Learn to deal with the fact that the RtwP combat is absolute garbage, maybe then you'll be able enjoy it.

>>1217314
Lower AC number is better.

>>1218862
>Minsc might also work if your protagonist isn't able to handle melee without dying.
Why not use any of the characters who are actually strong in melee like Kagain or Shar-Teel instead? Rangers are a subpar class.

>>1219125
I was assuming he's not playing an evil party, since he has no evil NPCs there. I suppose you could get one of them anyway if you don't like roleplaying.

Actually, I don't remember if BGEE still has the quite strict reputation requirements for keeping NPCs around, so it might not be a problem even if he's lawful good paladin mode.

The first one is shit, play 2

>>1217314
Low AC (Armor class) is better, Lower THAC0 is better (It represents how much on a 20-sided die you need to get to hit a guy with an AC of 0).

Bows are good, summoning a shitton of allies (particularly through wands) is good, kite enemies like hell. Wizards are shit at the beginning but then they get fairly good.

>>1219360
>then they get fairly good

"Then" happens around the start of BG2 though.

On the topic of BG[2]EE, did they actually change how bonus HP for high constitution works for non-fighters, or does the Dragon Disciple kit they added give bonuses to constitution when levelling that will do absolutely nothing for 90% of player characters unless you intentionally start with a sub-optimal constitution to save 2 points during character creation?

>>1219387
Sleep is god-tier considering how often you run into large packs of humanoids.

Fireball and haste go without saying. Yes there are haste potions and exploding arrows/potions, but a mage can do it for free, and in the case of haste, everyone at once.

Invisibility is fun.

Dispel is useful as fuck when dealing with enemy mages.

Knock means you can get away with skimping on Open Lock skill points.

The various other protection and buff spells all have their uses.


Mages are great in BG, they're only "bad" when compared to the game-breaking gods they become at higher level.

>>1220587
Some people like to roleplay instead of being min-max faggots.

>>1220629
>Roleplaying
>Becoming a half-dragon as well as a Bhaalspawn
2specialsnowflake4me

Instead of making a new thread I'm going to ask about NWN here.

Just started, but I have some experience of DnD mechanics from ToEE and BG. I've just finished the first part of the original campaign by fighting my way through the prison and killing that Intellect Devourer. My question is, is the rest of the main quest this bad? It's just ploughing through hordes of identical groups of enemies and occasionally finding a chest with a small amount of gold or a potion of light heal. It feels more like Final Fantasy than a DnD campaign. The only point so far where I've found two different ways of progressing is when I found the secret passage into the prison from whatshername's house. And that wasn't even a skill check, you just had to click on the doormat to find the key. Playing as a rogue thus far has been no different from playing a fighter EXCEPT I've been able to unlock dozens of chests which, had I been a fighter, I assume I'd have just ignored. Not to mention the fact that I'm playing a Chaotic Good character and my Chaotic level is perpetually dropping because apparently every Good decision is also a Lawful one. And there's been no decisions available to distinguish my character as chaotic.

To be honest I'm not really a fan of the game even ignoring the boring campaign. The camera control is shitty, the AI and pathfinding are horrendous and somehow someone decided that the best way to deal with said shitty pathfinding and AI is to have every character arbitrarily move around and get in each other's way during combat. But if the campaign was a little less bland and repetitive I can imagine I could ignore those flaws.

>>1220667
>My question is, is the rest of the main quest this bad?
Yes.

You need to understand that NWN was never intended to be a single-player RPG. It was meant to be a module-based multiplayer game (which coincidentally is why you cannot control more than one character). The official campaign for NWN is half tech demo, thrown together over the span of a few months when Bioware realized that everyone was expecting another Baldur's Gate.

The two expansion campaigns are much more fleshed out.

>>1220683
Goddamnit. I don't WANT to continue (especially as they've basically already described the next area as "you're gonna fight a lot of zombies!") but it just feels perverse to me to buy a game and then not play the main campaign.

>>1220694
>especially as they've basically already described the next area as "you're gonna fight a lot of zombies!"
Trust me, it doesn't get any better.

>berserker solo run on bg2
>dwarf for the superior saving throws
>get belm+flail of ages+boots of speed
>easiest run ever. easier than solo sorc. belee dat

>>1220707
>>1220667
Yeah. Sadly the main campaign is totally bollocks. The first expansion doesn't get any better either. However, the engine is great and IIRC there are some excellent fan-made modules out there, check fansites. Personally I played the MC until I couldn't take it anymore, but I can't remember till when. It is very stupid.

>>1217346
Yess, good job JIDF.

>>1220629
i recommend friends then instead of video games

So what level should I dual the fighter to thief? Or should I got Shadowdancer/Fighter?

>>1220667
>>1220694
I recommend ignoring original campaign, starting SotU and exporting your character to HotU. This way you have good and consistent story, closer to Bhaalspawn saga, though a bit shorter.

>>1223007
Level 3, if you dual with level 4 or 5 you will not get weapon grandmastery and if you dual even later then you will not regain your fighter abilities until right before the end of the game.

>>1223016
This is for BG2, forgot to add. So when you dual to a thief from fighter, do you give up those pips from fighter until you reach that level? Do you get the +2 pips from Thief level 1?

Someone said around level 13 is when you get your final extra attack.

>>1217346

>>1223082
You get all points of both classes.

>>1223102
And the extra attacks right?

>>1217314

If you have problems running it, for some reason, try the GemRB project.

http://www.gemrb.org/wiki/doku.php?id=start

It's a multiplatform port of engine for this game, you can even run it on your tablet, if you want. It's fairly complete for a few games using said engine, including this one.

>>1217314

man I got really exhausted playing that game recently.

I remember getting around the end and JUST WANTING IT TO END ALREADY...it can be a LOOOONG game if you want to clear the map and shit.

I only say it's long though because I backlog games ONLY one at a time, and I wanted to finish it before break. So I was kinda rushing near the end. Fought and killed everything major though. When I got to the end the boss was OP as shit and I had to fight him nearly, literally, 50 times to kill him and his fucking gay party. Partially that's because I wanted to be a spelltheif, and everyone is like "hurrdurr shoulda been a fighter with a balanced party" FUCK NO I've played dnd fuck off if I wanna do an all mage party it should be fine and make sense and be OP because dnd magic is *supposed* to be OP compared to physical combat.

good game nontheless. oh and watch out for kobolds with fire arrows in that maze, they are a fucking BITCH.

>>1223279
>saervok
>using a balanced party

lel
He's one of the most bullshit bosses in any RPG. You basically have to cheese him (kill him offscreen with a million fireballs) or load a trillion times. Having a "balanced party" doesn't help.

>>1223295

yeah it was a real bitch

I'm at work or I'd be posting screenshots of how I did it and other things

>>1223295
Just use acid arrows. They do bullshit damage.

>>1220694
Just play Mask of the Betrayer. It's fucking great. It's not even a fraction as cliché as the original campaign, especially in regard to the characters.

>>1223323
That anon is playing NWN 1. SotU and HotU are the equivalent of MotB.

>>1223339
Oh fuck me, I just kind of read it as NWN2. I never really like the original campaign of either.

>>1223323
I started a game of MotB, and couldn't get past the second area because kept dying. The first major boss, the rainbow bear spirit was really frustrating.

>>1223295
Sarevok took me a few tries, but I didn't find the boss overpowered or anything. It's actually one of my favorite boss fights of any RPG.

I also hadn't used any potions the entire game, so I loaded my party up with buffs, though I figure by endgame you should have enough potions available even if you have been using them.

>>1218312
A week later, about to storm the bandit camp.
The quests and dungeons are nowhere as good as bg2, still the free full map exploration is nice.

>>1225854
Are you doing a challenge run or why are you using such crappy characters?

>>1225854

Much as i like BG1, some of the dungeons are complete fucking disasters.
>Firewine bridge
Durlag's Tower is pretty cool, though.

I think it's the minor encounters and details that shine in BG1.

Some of these mod items are CURAZY, in BG1, already at level 6/7 (cloakwood mine), Jaheira boasts -10 AC and strikes with a staff that adds another 6D6 lightning damage on hit, save for half.
3 attacks per round...(+1 from some bracers)
Then again, some of the encounters are mad as fuck.

>>1223295
(Wands of) Summons + Party full of archers

>>1225868
>crappy
They're not top tier but crappy? BG1 isn't exactly chock full of powerhouse characters, and those are hardly the worst.

Or are you one of those dimwits that can't win without >muh edwin

>>1223295
As I recall the save that I've won.
> Alright Gnolls move out
> Imoen spam dose Fireballs
> Concentrate on the mage
> Dispel, fuck I just cast dispel how do you still have shields?
> No wait concentrate on Sarevok
> No Edwin you useless piece of shit, don't die
> Minsc chop his shit!

Barely won by half of party decimated. Only won because killing Sarevok and the game assumes you killed rest of his party.

It's been a long time since I played, but I remember animate dead being awesome. Very few enemies can stand up to a fully buffed skeleton horde.

>>1223295

He's not THAT hard, especially with the expansion what with higher levels, better items and it reducing his 90% magic resistance (Goddamn, that was some bullshit).

Arrows of Dispel are godtier against his pet mage, and potions are your friend.

Now Aec'Letec, on the other hand...

>>1220615
>Fireball
Fireball is fucking fantastic, but if you have any behavior script on your wizard, it becomes an ENORMOUS liability if you ever get into a scuffle in a city.

Flaming Fist do not fucking give up.

>>1226245

I SERVE THE FLAMING FIST
IF THERE'S A CRIME, IT MUST BE PUNISHED
I AM THE LAW

Call lightning and lightning bolt always had a way of frying some stray peasant, too.

>>1226258
Oh fuck this, or if you're in a corridor.

>Imoen has been hit for (3) damage
>Imoen has been hit for (3) damage
>Imoen has been hit for (5) damage
>Imoen has been hit for (4) damage
>Minsc has been hit for (3) damage
FUCK'S SAKE GET OUT OF THE WAY IMOEN AND FUCK STOP CASTING LIGHTINGBOLT IN A NARROW HALLWAY YOU CHUCKLEFUCK WE'RE GONNA FUCKING DIE

>>1223295
Bait out Semaj the mage into Dimension Dooring into you and pick him off.
Then just carefully move in without waking up Angelo and Tazok and shoot Sarevok down, close in in melee once he's lured.
If you want to deal with his lackeys properly in a toe-to-toe battle, just kite Sarevok while murdering Semaj and Angelo, then focus Sarevok and ignore Tazok. You can also try to use your most resilient character to bait out all of Angelo's arrows or better yet have him friendly fire on his friends.

>>1225868
Khalid can be geared to be the best archer in the game (he can go *** Bows by the end of the game and has great Dexterity) with Coran and Kivan (and Archers win this game) and he's well balanced for any combat purpose, Jaheira is fine, Dynaheir's okay and the only problem with her is that she has two spellschools barred (which you can live without), and Kivan is also a great archer as well as a badass. All in all this party is basically the "canonical" BG2 party with small tweaks.

>>1220615
I'd also like to note that a level 1 Mage can solo ankhegs (or at least heavily contribute to killing them for easy XP farming).

The level 1 Blind spell kills line of sight of ranged units and Ankhegs can't close the gap because they're kinda "stationary". Cast Blind on them until it works (reeks of save/load, but is actually sort of reliable) and then just kill them with a Sling.

There's also Web, which is the bread & butter crowd control spell in both BG1 and BG2.
I kinda think that most BG players underestimate crowd control.

>>1226303

>I kinda think that most BG players underestimate crowd control.

Wut... Cheese is pretty much needed at times. Web + Fireball + Stink cloud

>>1226296
>Jaheira is fine
She's just so worthless.
I mean, what can she do? She can't fight very well, she's not good with scimitars, spears, staves, she barely gets by with a sling, she can't take no beating, she has shit for spells, she has some buffs spells, and can learn to use "Cure Light Wounds" which becomes redundant as fuck a few chapters in, she has almost no spell slots, and can't really learn any great spells.

Khalid can be KIND of alright, but the fact that you have to tack on Jaheira to have him makes him not worth it.

I can appreciate them from a plot standpoint, I really did as a kid, but as I grew up, I simply gave up on making them do their part in combat.

>>1226319

She's a qt3.14?

>>1226313
Yeah but I actually know a lot of people who either just fill their entire spellbook with as many damage spells as possible and/or start a Mage off with Magic Missile as their first spell, which is like the most common spell scroll ever and doesn't do anything to surpass Sleep, Blind or even Color Spray's early utility.

I find myself guilty of that too, I only recently learned the wonders of BG2's Teleportation Field spell.

>>1226268

The flip side of this is sending her off, making sure to cast minor globe of invulnerability first, and bouncing around the lightning bolt in a narrow corridor as the enemies try to swarm her.


It's glorious.

>>1226326
Not really, I mean, she looks alright, but she's kind of an annoying hag.

>>1226319
is this before she unlocks stoneskin/steelskin?

>>1226330

Yeah... She's is the worse of all except the witch and you defiantly must question her taste in men, who in their right mind can stand Khalid?

>>1226339
I did have her use barkskin and stoneskin a couple of times, but it seriously didn't make her help in combat.
I'd rather have a plain Cleric who can have plenty of spell slots and can learn a bunch of priests spells.
Oh, and who can fight. Viconia comes to mind.

>>1226342

But how are the other cleric on the sling and in melee? I always use Jaheira as a backup fighter

>>1226319
Jaheira has pretty okay combat stats (no stats that desperately call for a fix-up like, say, Ajantis' dexterity), though admittedly, yes, Jaheira - at least in BG1 - gets shafted because Druids get shafted. You lose out on a few spells while only really gaining the Call Lightning spell which is good, but situational.
What I'm saying is that she's just an okay character and is feasible for beating the game. Sure I'd rather have Yeslick or Branwen over her, but I just don't think she's unplayable.

Also you don't have to tack on Khalid with Jaheira. Just kill Jaheira, petrify her or put her into some remote building where you're sure not to visit again and just leave it. Not very RP, but oh well - at least it leaves you with a choice.

At least in BG2 she can cast Steelskin and finally gets access to level 4 and 5 spells she should have had in BG1, though she's still a worse frontliner and cleric than Anomen (then again, Anomen is the best frontliner out of all NPCs in BG2).

>>1226351
Either Branwen or Viconia, because both of them can haul ass in combat if you give them the Gauntlets Of Ogre Strength (and, you know, heal and buff the party), now, I did give those to Jaheira when that came about, but she still didn't perform very well, because she's a "Fighter/Druid", now, this means she's a gimped fighter, so that's worthless, and she's also a gimped druid, which is unbelievably worthless. She helped carry stuff though I suppose.

>>1226342
>viconia
>fight
hahaha

>>1226715
Give her the Gauntlet of Ogre's Strength and a descent mace, and she's a descent melee.

>>1226725
This.

For BG2, I gave her Gauntlets Of Ogre Strength and Flail Of Ages+3, coupled with her Cleric abilities, she absolutely fucking violated Shandalar.

>>1226725
Yeah, with multiple magic items, that's all she ever is. "Decent".

Meanwhile I could give the gauntlets to a number of other characters and get more out of them.

>>1226749
But she's only meant to be a pinch hitter when it comes to melee. She's meant to stay behind lines and do cleric shit.

>>1226749
>Meanwhile I could give the gauntlets to a number of other characters and get more out of them.

Like who? The gauntlets are supposed to be used by a character with low strength, who would become a decent fighter with them, like Viconia.

>>1226146
>Dispel, fuck I just cast dispel how do you still have shields?

I still don't fully understand dispelling mechanics. After few first fights with mages the only low level anti-magic spell I consider worth using is Breach.

>>1226793
Then why waste gauntlets on her if she's only going to be fighting occasionally?

>>1226823
Someone who will actually get more than one attack per round, for starters.

>>1226832
Only Warrior (and Monk) classes get more than one APR. Gauntlets are good for those that sit in the back and use slings, like Viconia.

>>1226323
Playing heavily modded BG2 pretty much forced me to use a lot of crowd control. Irenicus' dungeon was hard as fuck even on core mode, because it was filled with duergars, mephits could gate in more mephits and I could rest only once. I wouldn't make it without web and horror.

>>1226832
>Then why waste gauntlets on her if she's only going to be fighting occasionally?

Because:
>put on mage
pointless
>put on thief
maybe good with backstab
>pot on fighter
Unless the fighter is at 18 strength or higher, you'll only gain a few points of strength
>put on cleric that's otherwise a bit weak
Suddenly she can actually deal out damage in combat, while still remaining a good healer and overall priest.

>>1226969
>Unless the fighter is at 18 strength or higher, you'll only gain a few points of strength
Are you high?
Fighters are set to 18/00 like anyone else.

>>1227270
Yeah, exactly, 18 or higher, unless you picked up a fighter somewhere who was just like 16-17.
Putting the gauntlets on them is a waste, when you can put them on a Cleric which will not only make them carry heavier stuff for you, they'll actually hurt in combat.

>>1227278
That's now how str works. Plain 18 a is very low score, the difference between 18 and 18/00 is three time as bis as between 8 (eight) and 18. Due to apr that's a huge deal for almost all fighters in the game. Other classes just suck in combat, go check the kill rate of your str-enhanced cleric in the character screen, you'll see it's abysmally low no matter what.

>>1227278
Most characters don't have 18/xx strength. The only ones I can think of are Minsc, Shar-Teel, and Kivan.
A character with 17 STR gets almost as much net benefit out of the gauntlets as a character with 10 STR, and if that character is a fighter, they'll be able to use the bonuses better thanks to faster THAC0 growth and more attacks per round.

>>1227309
Man, D&D has fucking retarded rules when you start to pick them apart.

>>1227307
>you'll see it's abysmally low no matter what
Well, I guess, but it seemed to work pretty great for me.

>>1227321
I for one find it great. Fighter-types do the fighting, non-fighters are exactly that. You can get to middle-ground with multiclassing. Obviously that would suck for a mmorpg, and you could totally break the system with some meta-gaming (I wouldn't if I were you, it makes the game pretty boring), but it does contribute a great deal to the atmosphere.

>>1227309
And for Sharteel and Kivan 18/00 still bring a higher bonus than what they can get from gauntlets of weapon specialization. So yeah, ogre strength is a waste on everyone but fighters

>>1227321
And you know what? In 2e, it fucking works. It's organized chaos.

What level should I dual class the Kensai to a Mage? What's the best weapon for grandmastering in?

>>1227442
some breakpoints are:
7 - extra half attack per round
9 - max hit dice
13 - extra half attack per round

past 13 all you are getting is a few more HP per level, and THAC0 growth (which is somewhat irrelevant with Tenser's)

>>1227457
So 9 looks like a good stopping spot.

>>1227457
Would that work for Kensai/Thief? Could you mod it with Shadowkeeper to be Kensai/Assassin? Imagine the damage.

>>1227516
>Would that work for Kensai/Thief?
can't think of a reason why it shouldn't

>>1227516
> Could you mod it with Shadowkeeper to be Kensai/Assassin?
No, in BG2 every character has one "kit/specialist" field and some abilities depend on it rather than variables granted with levels, so switching kits breaks stuff. Two examples I know of are wild surges and item restrictions.
You can, however, make a multiclass multikit with this: http://www.shsforums.net/topic/45258-multiclassed-multikit-builder-mod-experimental/

>>1219109
Most people would have understood that naturally if they played D&D. As the more meaningful universal difficulty class roll was changed in 3e, released in 2000. 2.5 and earlier used thac0 as Baldurs Gate did and everyone whose ever played D&D would have understood that the armor class lowers.

So i just crashed the duke party and Belt sent me to Thieves Hideout.

Problem is that there donesn't seem to be any exit which sucks since half of my party died to those doppelgangers and i can't ressurect them without a temple.

And is it normal for me to have +1 weapons at best? I hardly hit anyone with 18 str. Same with Minsc.

I made it that far but that maze is too unforgivable, barely killed doomguards and i can't get out, i just wish i could get out.

>>1228325

It was a while since i played, but there definitly should be an exit from the hideout, on the floor you first got teleported to.

>>1228329
All right, i hope that will slightly increase my chances.

Sucks that i can't get back old gear since they died in that castle and by the time i get there it will probably dissapear and even with that i doubt i can beat Saverock since, for some reason, only mage in my party is Xan and only thing he's good for is summoning wand(and sleep spell, which was useful in the beginning).

How hard is Saverock and maze? I am honestly considering to simply restart and do everything properly this time, take some time to do some research about good companions etc.

>>1228351
>How hard is Saverock and maze?
If you have the haste spell, a wand of monster summoning and some arrows then it's a joke.

>>1228353
By arrows are you talking about bow ones or spells?

I do have haste and that wand(considering getting second one to speed summoning up) and almost all of my characters, except my main char who is more like a tank, have arrows/slings.

Thanks. Hope has returned to me, will beat his ass next time i play.

>>1228351

Pretty brutal if you're aiming at doing it legit, but cheesing it by infinite monster summoning or damaging spells from out of view makes it pretty easy.

That's assuming you actually get to Sarevok, as there are a few pretty difficulty encounters to go if i'm remembering right.

Also, you mentioned having mostly 1+ weapons; consider doing the expansion stuff (Ulgoth's Beard, Durlags Tower) as there's some powerful magical equipment throughout. Just don't go to any islands unless you're feeling confident.

>replaying Baldur's Gate 2
>in every area at least 3 NPC ask me do do a favor for them
>at some point I have to complete 5 quests that require immediate action, at the same time
>have to rest before every harder encounter to prepare spells
>that cliched main story

I don't remember why I loved this game.

I wanted to try an ie game so I tried the first baldurs gate a while ago and I didn't like it.
I don't really understand or want to understand the rules because I don't want to read a fucking novel to play these games. I mean I understand the basics but beyond that I don't give a fuck.

However here's the thing, I want to play at least one of them from start to finish because they are considered great and loved by many and I want to experience one even if I don't think I'll really enjoy it.

So which one?
I'm guessing bg2 is the answer but let's see.

>>1230920
BG2, aside from a rather arduous beginning (though it's really mostly annoying when you're playing through it for the umpteenth time) is probably your best bet.
You start off as mid-level characters which allows you access to a nice arsenal of spells, some magic items early on and overall you won't find yourself running away from wolves and bears at level 1 like you would in BG1.
Then the game picks up and is a neverending rollercoaster of heroic fantasy of epic proportions.
Throne of Bhaal (Expansion pack to BG2) is an okay conclusion to the series, but you don't have to bother about it if you aren't inclined to; it's a short game nevertheless and wraps up the storyline, but it's also not as rich in stuff and the writing is kinda lazy.
Overall though you play BG series for the battle system and the many different parties made out of many different NPCs with some epic storyline to follow. It might not be your cup of tea in the end even if you enjoyed games like Fallout which come from roughly the same era.

>>1230931

Thanks, sounds good.
Well then I'm going to read a sumarry of the first one and then start bg2.
Honestly I don't know if I'm going to like it or not but I'm gonna finish it anyway.

It's a big part of gaming history and I feel like I have to experience it.

>>1230949
If you will like BG2 by any chance then try to return to the first game. You might appreciate the low-level adventure and exploring the wilds. BGT is also a cool mod for one long second playtrough