/vr/ - Retro Games

Does anyone collect this stuff?

>>1194619
I do.
I have currently 150 Famicom pirate carts.

Also I suggest anyone which has some interest to visit the BootlegGames Wiki:
http://bootleggames.wikia.com/

and clones

>>1194619
W-well, I collect pictures...

If you haven't yet, I recommend you guys check out Dendy chronicles on youtube, it's pretty hilarious.

>>1194660
You can share them on the pirate games museum if you haven't already.
http://piratedgamemuseum.wikia.com/

Gimmick! is a pretty cool game. It goes for ridiculously high prices on eBay though, like $800. It's a pretty short game too, so I didn't really mind getting a bootleg

>>1194651
"Do you play Famicom in a race car?"
"No, I play Famicom in a bed, with my wife."

>>1194660
I've seriously been laughing like a retard for two minutes straight after seeing this. Thank you for sharing.

>>1194619
I collect clone consoles, and clone games, for older stuff. I have to admit, the "GB Boy Colour", the backlit Gameboy Colour clone, is actually better than the real console.

>Obligatory death penguin picture

>>1194702

Holy shit that was the first thing I thought when I saw that guy's picture.

>>1194660
>Dendy chronicles
I love it. Subs for part 9 when?

>>1194640
WHERE DO YOU OBTAIN THESE

>>1194619
Yes

>>1194640
What is this actual game though? When you turn it on what happens? Is it donkey kong?

>>1194676
>dat modified Muscle Bomber artwork

>>1195448
I would love to have that Famicom SF2 though. I was hoping a game on the Fun Time I made the OP label for was going to have it under "Road Fighter" but it was a different game.

>>1194660

That's the best one!

>>1195063
Started in 2009, I have spent countless hours searching for sellers/making friends with other collectors. Still I don't receive many carts per month. And it's an expensive collection.

>>1195259
I like them, especially the higher quality game made around the 90s by known developers like Hummer Team, Ei-How Yang, Sachen. Some pirates games are really impressive programming and graphics wise.

>>1195128
best answer.

Does anybody know how much the bootleg of Pokémon Diamond is worth? I still have a copy my dad got me from a trip to Thailand.

>>1195623
Bootlegs officially ain't worth nothin'
However there is an underground market, of whom this guy seems to be a member >>1195590

does anyone know much about these, is it worth bidding on?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Nes-Famicom-150-In-1-Game-Cartridge-And-Convertor-/151158508118?pt=AU_PC_Video_Games_Games&hash=item2331bfca56&_uhb=1

>>1195590
>Dat AV Bishoujo Senshi Pretty Fighter
God fucking DAMN it. Want, hard.

I don't suppose you have Mortal Kombat 2 Special? That one's a bit of a white whale for me.

>>1195696
It looks like an Action 52, which is shit. Some 1,50-in-1s have really good games on them though. The fact that the seller doesn't provide a game list makes me doubtful.

>>1195685
How does one enter this "underground market" Is there an online community or must I descend on a ladder?

>>1195696
Overpriced. Most SuperVision multicart aren't bad number of repeat- but they are common and contains common games. I'd say 10-15 would be a fair price but you will barely see that on the bay because it's R@RE!!!

About AV Bishoujo Senshi Girl Fighting, I just sold an extra boxed copy. Sorry.
And yeah I have MK2S, both cover variant.

>>1195729
BootlegGames Wiki, Pirated Games Museum and Pirated Games Central (Forums) is a good start.

>>1194948
I do too, but the prices for famiclones on ebay are getting way over the top.
Pic is one of my favorite models, extremely compact and takes batteries, so I don't have to hook up another system. It's a mess of wires back there...

>>1195713
hello

I'm not really familiar with bootleg games. What are some of the weirder ones out there?

>>1196902
Dendy Chronicles seems a good selection. They're of a Russian guy going over what his experience was growing up with commie pirate systems/games and no internet. They have english subtitles and are pretty entertaining, so check them out for a crash course on at least one part of the weirdness of bootlegs. Beyond that, I learn stuff from just seeing bootleg threads. Both /vr/ and /v/ have had them, so if you want more, save some of the pics in here and start another thread sometime. Or just stay tuned here.

I have a few Gameboy bootleg carts.

I've got a couple of those 99-in-1 Gameboy carts that actually have 5 games on them which are then renamed 20 times on the game select menu (eg 'The Amazing Spiderman' would also be 'The Amazing Spiderman 2', 'Power Rangers', 'Spiderman 95', 'Peter's Bizarre Adventure' etc). Not sure what was on each, but I recall that between them they had:

Battle City, Klax, The Amazing Spiderman, Hugo, Flipull, Casper, Tetris, and also this one game I can't remember the name of but you're a little big type thing and you're going around a tower and it's sort of pseudo-3D and a lot of the platforms are pitfalls and there are cannonballs everywhere it's really stressful.

>>1198179
The funniest thing is that Robocop 2 cart looks like it would be legit.

Are you sure it's a bootleg?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6ZzKb9PhXg

Just read about this. The music/graphics on the menu are pretty impressive.

>>1195037

I FUCKING LOVE THIS RUSSIAN BASTARD

My favorite moment is when he puts in the Mario 4 cart, and it turns out to just be a re skinned mario 2, he then very gingerly pops it out of the Dendy, and places it into the garbage can.

>>1198197
Yup, the sticker is kinda low quality and I opened the cart and there's no Nintendo signature on the pcb or chips.

I got one of these Saturday for four bucks. It has by far the nicest Famiclone controllers I've ever used. They're full sized Playstation bodies with Saturn feeling D Pad.

>>1198213
Link to video?

>>1198190
>you're a little big type thing and you're going around a tower and it's sort of pseudo-3D and a lot of the platforms are pitfalls and there are cannonballs everywhere

Castelian, Tower Toppler, Nebulus

My favorites are the bootleg NES games. Not the "99-in-1" carts but the legitimately released games from Color Dreams, AVE, CodeMasters, etc. that caused Nintendo to start putting lockout chips in the systems. My favorites are the bible themed games Wisdom Tree produced, especially "Spiritual Warfare," a bizarre top-down RPG wherein you hurl the "fruit of the spirit," embodied in literal fruit, at gang bangers and other ne'er-do-wells as you go around collecting the spiritual armor in preperation for fighting satan. It's just so out there and completely obtuse, yet it manages to be a halfway-decent game. Unfortunately a lot of the others, especially King of Kings: The Early Years are completely unplayable.

>>1196667
>14 peoples

>>1194619
Yes, I love this shit.

>>1200379

>>1200382

>>1200387
Here's my latest buy. It's legit too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nF2CGMFJh5Y

>>1200389

>>1200391

>>1200392

>>1200393

Some famiclones come with keyboards

>>1198862
http://www.youtube.com/user/Kinaman88/videos?flow=grid&view=1
"Проклятие серого слонёнка" and "Dendy Chronicles" are about bootlegs. Also subbed: "Dendy Memories", which is about nostalgy and stuff.

>>1200379
Hello MrDOS4! Happy that you've kept that 4in1 with DKC4 I sold you.

>>1200395
I recently got a keyboard famiclone

Was hoping the arrows or WASD would be controller mapped but no such luck.

>>1200457

Does the Dendy run at a slower clock frequency? I only took a peak at this guy's video before and didn't noticed the slowed-down video game music.

Where do you guys get these? Did you get them at some site or did you pick them up on your travels to South Korea or Thailand or whatever?

Because the ebay prices are fucking retarded.

>>1200657
Yeah, 50 MHz. Most of the games the pirates bootlegged were USA/Japan games, very rarely did they use European games. In fact, I have a PXP multicart that has a bunch of NTSC ROMs except for one; Super Mario Bros. Why SMB was singled out as a PAL ROM, we will never know.

>>1198179
I remember having a Pokemon Jade version, but I can't seem to find it anywhere

>>1200663
Ebay, forums, privates sources. I've never travelled to any of those countries and I live in a country where there aren't any except a few NES72pin pirates (I'm this guy >>1194640 ).

As for ebay, there are cheap and expensive seller. retrohouse_thailand is one of those expensive one (and he prints his own shitty covers, they looks horrible).
Some ok sellers:
nattika_thaigems, keen_onx35, thonburian88 (but he has some overpriced stuff), satrioretro, endnot3

>>1200657
Yeah it's for PAL/SECAM 50Hz monitor so it's slower.

>>1200661
never fails to incite a chuckle

>>1200463
My memory isn't nearly as good as yours... but is that you MasterDisk?

>>1200657
They use weird timing to run games at something resembling 60 Hz speeds but with 50 Hz video output. It's not like an unoptimised PAL NES game which would just run 17% slower than the original. Audio speed might be most obvious difference.

>>1196931
>commie pirate systems
>1990s

>>1200663
I'm this guy
>>1200560
>>1198856
I got the Virtual Station at a Goodwill and I have several Power Joy type N64 controller lookin' famiclones I also got at thrift stores. The King Computer 2 came from my local game stores junk area where I also got a totally nonfunctional Gen Next and a Retron 3 with a bad NES slot. I never paid more than $10 for any of them.

As far as pirate carts go, definitely get them from forums. You can find them cheap on eBay if you search creatively and are diligent.

Its a famicom tengen Tetris with a converter inside. Got it for free at work

>>1194651
That's the coolest knock off I've ever seen.

>>1201914

>>1201112
Yes.

superior

You guys should come to argentina. We have shitloads of this garbage.

For some reason, the most common 8-bit console here was always the Famicom (and its countless bootlegs). Pretty much never seen people selling NES carts here.

If you go near shanties, or wherever it's full of peruvians or bolivians, you'll finds all kinds of famicom knockoffs.

consoles and games. I've seen mortal kombat 5, street fighter 4, all manner of sonics and marios and stuff that would make ashens blush.

>>1194676
Why is Ryu fighting Dio?

>>1194948
That penguin's in my room. When you turn it on, the eyes glow red. Creepy stuff, but it has a good version of Contra on it.

Prepare yourselves, gentlemen. The joystick is merely for show.

best bootleg

>>1201708
Your work sounds cool. Where do you work? Where can I apply?

>>1203585
that is indeed a 4 AA battery pack, it can also use any AV and AC cable. The entire thing is just 5 or 6 different ROMs named different things all the way up to '1000 games'. the slot is for god knows what

>>1203592
>the slot is for god knows what
It's a Famiclone, the slot is for 60-pin Famicom carts.

>>1198205

>>1203592
>>1203585
I own one of these. I used it for the light gun NES games :> so awesome ^_^

>>1200379
>Bomber King
>Morshu

Wǒ ài Běijīng Tiān'ānmén,
Tiān'ānmén shang tàiyáng shēng!

Wǒ ài Běijīng Tiān'ānmén,
Tiān'ānmén shang tàiyáng shēng!

Wǒ ài Běijīng Tiān'ānmén,
Tiān'ānmén shang tàiyáng shēng!

Just found these at Salvation Army

inb4 burned

>>1204095
What does that text on the front cover say? 10-15 fps?

>>1194948
>I have to admit, the "GB Boy Colour", the backlit Gameboy Colour clone, is actually better than the real console
Man, I hope mine arrives soon. I ordered 2 from the original chinese seller, he made a temporary selling page just for me, so I got 2 for $45 (on amazon uk they're selling em for $55 a piece...).

Also, I'm hoping to someday purchase Overlord Leaves His Wife. That one always gets me.

I collect semen.

>>1204648
"You are the difference between the big house and a house in Malibu

You are the difference between 500 G's and 10-15 in maximum security

You are the fastest driver in the entire criminal community"

>>1204779
I wasn't really looking for an answer, just trolling about that game's shitty framerate

Though IIRC Driver 2 was even worse...

>>1204787
I mainly got them just because they're real HKpressed bootlegs. Parasite Eve 2 is the best one, probably the best game and definitely the best bootleg art. Check out that "GameStation" logo.

A reminder that if you live near the mexican border you can get to hunt a lot of bootlegs in flea markets during the next month.

And I say this because I'm mexican.

>>1201708
i have the same cartridge but in famicom version

>>1204663
Bump.

>>1200393
The expansion cartridge thing. What does it do?

>>1206842
You can (or at least could up until a few years ago but you probably can still) get famicom bootlegs too every Sunday at some flea marker near me where I live.

vydia sucks
prove me wrong, neckbeards and 15 year olds
>protip: you can't

>>1210875
everything sucks dumbass vidya just sucks less. Christ you are stupid, you probably got laid, drank beer, or smoked weed for the first time now you are just fucking JACKED for weeks being a hardcore 16 year old and all.

>replying to shitposting
sorry

>>1210879
look mom he's mad

>>1210875
>>1210895
LMAO gr9 b9 m9
XDDD

>>1210647
It lets you plug in the famicom cartridges. It isn't a real gameboy, the screen is a generic 9999 brick game LCD, and the rest is a famiclone system.

>>1196667
>>1195851
Ogod. I need this cartridge so hard. Sell me one?

>>1210912
No extra.

Got this recently, it is a SMB2j port.

Bump

>that feel when most of the bootleg multigames carts you used to play won't get dumped because of (understandable at some degree) cart dumping elitism

>>1215165
Why...why would you want to play the multicart rom and not the games that make up the multicart itself?

What?

>>1211012
The faces on Mario and the princess in that are, uh... odd.

>>1215243
It depicts the moment she touched his dick for the first time.

Zen - Intergalactic Ninja.

>>1215189

But of course you don't seem to get it

Some of them are unique in certain ways, for example, there's a variant of the japanese Star Force in which the title is in green and you start with a permanent powerup

And oh, what about those games which actually are original but are doomed to not being dumped because they're on multicarts?

>>1220791
Look at the GoodNES ROM set, there are at least 417 pirate carts goddamn

>>1220791
>>1215189

I forgot to add, that Star Force variant is nowhere to be found on the internet, either as a simple romhack or in multicarts

>>1220796

>Implying I haven't looked in there already

When I look for something on the internet, I CRAWL the motherfucker.

>>1220801
Have you actually gone through all the available multicart ROMs? There's so much duplication in these that the same hacks are probably in other carts, or the exact same multicart has a completely different name

>>1220812
>Have you actually gone through all the available multicart ROMs?

...

Yes.

http://cah4e3.shedevr.org.ru/dumping_2013.php

He's dead, isn't he?

>>1220801
>>1220834
That StarForce variant, if I remember, is on the 64 in one multicart. Likewise, that game has been dumped and a ROM exists.

>>1220083
I loved these sorts of bootlegs just for the cute girls.

>>1220905
As do I. Do you ever go to swap meets just so you can find these games just to jizz on the covers?

>>1221364
...

This is the dumbest shit I have ever read.

Hell, this might be the dumbest post on the history of the board.

Congratulations, you have been certified the biggest dumbfuck in the history of /vr/. I suggest you take a couple days off to think about what you have just posted.

>>1221385
What? You never like to go back to how you acted when you first started spanking it?

>>1220905
>>1221364
>>1221385
>>1221396
I like to go to thrift stores and find all the "fappable" material I can. Like Exercise VHS tapes and anime babes on bootleg games. Then, I go home and jerk myself dry. It feels pretty good.

>>1220841
>[24 march 2013]
Say it ain't so.... ;_;

>>1221415

his game dumps are fucking dope, I wonder how many from us knew his site before

>>1203585
i was scrolling through this thread and was about to scroll back up and ask "i had this thing that was an n64 controller that had 100's of NES games" , but low and behold it has been posted, mine was white though.

>>1221464
I do, I even sent a bunch of my games.
Currently he is working in another country.

>>1220797
Then fucking dump it.

Jeez.

There's no "Elitism". the reason many of these multicarts remain undumped is BECAUSE OF THE WEIRD FUCKING HARDWARE USED TO MAKE THEM.

If you've EVER tried to dump an NES game, in any way. You'd know this. NES/Famicom games relied so heavily on custom hardware that even a flashcart was impossible for decades.

>>1211012
NICE. I have this...

I have not figured out the "Mapper" yet. Outside of there's a direct MMC3 clone in the thing. But it appears to use some sort of bankswitching to work the Menu. I've yet to get a clean dump worked out but once I do, I will release it. My eventual goal is to build an NES cart with prper MMC3 hacks of all the games (these are already prepared. and not the common ones that are out there where everyone can get them)

I still jones for Mortal Kombat 2 Special. It's my White Whale and I must have it... For science!

>>1202894
As a Peruvian, I can confirm this. However, the games over here suck fucking ass.

It's always the same 1000000 in 1 bootleg cart with the same games repeating at least 5000 times. Super Mario, Arkanoid, Bomberman, Tetris, Contra, and that's that. I managed to get a 3 in 1 cart with Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter 2, and Rockman 3 last year, but I haven't had any luck since then. Shit sucks real hard. Don't even get me started on bootleg GameBoy games.

>>1222819

cool your tits, nancypants

>>1222958
He's right tho.

>>1204663
Got a package in the mail this morning :D
And I must say, I'm impressed. I was a bit worried about the buttons, so far I have little experience with bootleg/aftermarket consoles, but most of em had horrible buttons. This one I might even like more then the original.
And the screen, man, it's gorgeous! Crystal clear colors, no bleeding, no bright spots or anything. Only minor downside is that it's a tad lower and wider then the original, so 'widescreen' instead of square, but this is barely noticeable when playing.
Best of both worlds from the GBA SP and GBC, except that this one doesn't play GBA games.
Great controls, great screen, backlit, and it only cost me €35 for the 2, free shipping. No regrets!

>>1223027
Good god that sounds beautiful, but the console looks a little ugly. Would it be possible to swap the case of this thing with an actual Game Boy Color case?

>>1223042
I don't think so, it's a different size. I usually don't mind experimenting and tinkering a bit, but considering these were some of the last the dude had available (unless you wanna pay out the ass to amazon resellers), I'm not gonna try it, sorry.

>>1223057
What do you mean, anon-kun? I'm looking to buy one but this "different size" thing is extremely important for my cronic autism.

Is it smaller, thicker, or bigger? Does it feel as comfortable and easy to hold as the original Game Boy Color? Pls respond.

>>1223063
It's a few mm wider and higher. Thickness looks to be exact the same, doesn't feel different.
The buttons have a different feel to em, but definitely not worse.
I've only unpacked it an hour ago, I'll be playing it tonight, if I notice anything about it I'll post again.

>>1222824
>I still jones for Mortal Kombat 2 Special. It's my White Whale and I must have it... For science!

>For science
You want to reproduce the mapper? I HIGHLY doubt you'll be able to get anything running, even if you are skilled. PowerPak is now emulating most m090 games btw.

pic related

>>1223074
Played for about an hour so far. A tiny spec appeared on the screen, looks kinda like a dead pixel (only visible on dark backgrounds).
But it's just as comfortable to play on as the GBC.

>>1220141
>dat crooked label

Sorry for potato image here but still pretty funny.

>>1226741
Why do I not have this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOzZhGkBSsw

>>1226741
What the hell was that taken with? It looks like utter goodness

>>1202894
>For some reason, the most common 8-bit console here was always the Famicom (and its countless bootlegs). Pretty much never seen people selling NES carts here.
The NES cartridges are distinguished by their lock-out chip. Famicom carts have no lock-out, so they're naturally the better form-factor for bootlegs. Even in the US, bootleg Famiclones have the 68(?)-pin connector rather than the American 72-pin.

>>1226876
You haven't really looked at US Famiclones lately have you? Their patents finally expired

http://cah4e3.shedevr.org.ru/

This guy has dumped/is dumping the majority of all Famicom pirate/bootleg games and knows a lot about them. He also started the fork of FCEU, called FCEUMM, which supports the rare mappers that these games use.

>>1226990
>that episode of GCCX when they bought all those bootleg games
oh man

>>1226990

like, hello there

>>1220841

>>1226912
>You haven't really looked at US Famiclones lately have you? Their patents finally expired
No, last time I bought one was ~2006.

There's no reason to include a 10NES in a console. A pair of them handshake, or the one in the console starts smashing the "reset" line on the 6502. Leaving it out entirely works just fine.

Most sites out there with info for Bootleg games mostly cover Famicom ones. What's the best resource for Genesis/Mega Drive ones? Aside from the Bootleg Games wiki, that is.

>>1227586
BGW is the most accurate between all sites covering bootlegs and it's possibly the only one with such a big database.

>>1227586
>>1228086

Weird, they do not seem to have info on a 64-in-1 bootleg cart with an UFO as a cursor

This one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YToT5n8BClA

Also, for some strange reason that cart is quite popular with brazilians, seriously I've never expected to see that amount of comments in that vid regarding that cart, I mean I know that it's to be expected from a bootleg cart and all that but MAN...

>>1203710
That is just so lovely. Looks like a shitload of effort went into that menu, which is incredibly odd as most of these 500-in-1 carts are lazy.

>>1228578
Oh a multicart. BGW is not trying to cover them all. Our main goal is to give accurate data about the manufacturer, developpers and their games.
It is too troublesome to have a list with all existing multis. We're talking about a list having more than a few thousands entries. And there are so many tiny variants. It's way too complicated.
We do have an alternate wikia for pirate carts of licenced games and lists of carts from certain manufacturer.

Google piratedgamemuseum

You can find some data about MD pirates on the sonic forum, but it's mostly from BGW

>tfw you used to have an entire collection of NES roms with weird Chinese names
>most of them were weird RPGs and waixing related things
>You get so deep that you start having nightmares about bootleg RPG's and Waixing's mascot sneaking in on you
>tfw they were all lost because of a sudden virus
>tfw the site you downloaded them from is dead
Am I free?

>>1194676
Omae wa mo shiggy do

>>1230540

>>1223657
Won't know until I try, afteralll!

But I still need an original cartridge to manage it.

>>1230695
>filename

>>1232135
>implying very experienced dumpers like Kevtris haven't already reverse engineered m090.

What's the point, really? Except ruining a MK2S cart?
At least I know there's someone I mustn't sell MK2S to.

>that feel when your nephew's bootleg console has some quite unique games that aren't romhacks at all

FFFFFF, I wish I knew how2dump

>>1230394
Do you want to be free?

>>1234214
God dammit, that scared me

>>1203590
thanks doc
if that isnt shooped,i hope someone gets it and play it

>>1228578
>for some strange reason that cart is quite popular with brazilians, seriously I've never expected to see that amount of comments in that vid regarding that cart, I mean I know that it's to be expected from a bootleg cart and all that but MAN...

There was a bootleg very popular called Dynavision. NES was very expensive at the time and almost no one had the original version of console. The only way to get it was importation. The console always came with this cartridge making that so popular there.

Also, that bootleg was a direct rival against genesis and survived until 2009. The company closed it's doors in 2010.

In a TV show, when one of the kids on the fone wanted a PS2 and instead wins the Dinavision, the presenter always refers the bootleg as: "almost a playstation 2".

>>1232687
Not ruining at all.

I just do better when I have something physical to look at. I feel Mapper 90 cold be managed in a CPLD. anyone who were to make a Mapper 90 reproboard would have an instant customer base for things like MK2S and Super MArio World (Full Levels Ver.)

>>1221464
Agreed. Are there any other cool pirate dumps out there? I'd love to collect pirate Roms and play them for fun!

>>1239797

If I had the money to buy a ROM dumper, I would acquire one and attempt to get all the shit from bootleged consoles that often sell here in my country

>>1240121
Retrode is like $70

>>1239421
In Uruguay (at least where I lived all of my life) famiclones were popular as shit too. I don't think a single person had an original famicom (I think I did once but I don't remember what I did and it broke). It was all about famiclones and bootlegs.

Which wasn't that bad. If you knew the names of the games you could ignore the cart art and call it a day.

>>1239582
I need this. Where can I buy it, anon?

>>1241380
A bootleg game store in the Philippines.

>>1241380
Sometimes you can find stuff at flea markets on on Ebay, but I have never seen any.

Has anyone ever bought bootleg vidya from Taobao?

There's some sellers with lots of Famicom games but no "screenshots" from them.

>>1240313

noted, and thanks. once the next year begins I shall start looking for a job.

>>1246972
Wait, is that dogs peeing on the side?

>>1239518

holy shit

>>1195037
Looks like Kinaman removed the ninth episode of DC from YouTube (Copyright reasons? I mean, he used clips from Ghostbusters movies in his review), so I guess it's pretty unlikely we'll ever see it subbed.

>>1252343
>Ridiculously-handsome Bowser
All of my wat

>>1254173
>impling he wasn't handsome from the start

>>1252343
>Dat Evil Mario

For people who has interest in GB pirates, this site should be interesting:
http://hhug.me/

>>1254212
that took me way too long to see that.

These kind of things were everywhere back in the day and now they're not. Did their cheap Chinese PCBs rot?

>>1259678
>>1259695
>>1259710
Beautiful.

Do they run on Scramble hardware?
EVERYTHING runs on Scramble hardware...