/vr/ - Retro Games

Unfiltered is best you say?

>troll thread?

try
>>>/vg/emulation

If you blow an image up to 5x its normal size of course it's not gonna look too good. But slapping a filter on it and calling it a day is just lazy.

If you don't like the look of upscaled pixels, either get an actual CRT or just grin and bear it.

>>1176778

Is the first one supposed to look bad? Because it's clearly the best.

>>1176864
It's CRT_Geom, the only acceptable filter.

>>1176921

I like NTSC filters. With scanlines.

The whole filter hating is basically from people who grew up with emulators and don't know how the games actually looked like back than. Filtering isn't the best way, but a good filter sure beats upscaled beyond-recognition pixel massacres, which is ironically enough also a kind of filter.

It's okay if you don't like filters, but don't tell me it's closer to the original that way.

How do you deal with the fact this game runs at 57.551hz?

>>1176987
Play it slightly fast.

>>1176779
This looks better to me, and I'm in my 30s so I know what real CRTs look like.

>>1176987
I was dealing with it by being completely unaware of it. Now I'm dealing with it by not knowing what that means or implies.

> using my favorite game when being an annoying shithead
:(

>>1176779
>>1176778

Wait wait wait. Those scanlines seem far too dark. CRT Geom looks to be messing up with this MAME game.

>>1177032

Try Blargg's NTSC. I like to get some artifacts and color bleed in there.

>>1177027
Shit taste.

>>1177048
>Dodonpachi
>shit

>>1177061

>>1176779
sharper, clearer. can see what's going on much better.

>>1177080

>implying you can't see the exact same amount of detail playing it the proper way
>implying it doesn't look FAR better viewed the proper way

You're free to play however you like of course, but that really is a pathetic rationalization.

jesus fucking christ anyone who uses a filter should be shot. Either get a CRT, muddying up the graphics with a shitty grey fog does not look like a CRT. Why don't they add childrens greasy fingerprints to the filter to make it that extra bit more realistic.

>>1177090
You can see the same amount of detail only after making the extra mental effort to edit out the scanlines. It's much easier with sharp pixels.

>>1176778
what is this game and what can i play it on?

>>1177032
>CRT Geom
It's not Geom, it's HLSL.

>>1177061

No. It was never good
>inb4 hurr durr it was groundbreaking at the time
So what? It's aged horribly, the gameplay is simplistic at best and the graphics are shit. Fucking Raiden was better, and it predated DDP by years.

>>1177094

Scanlines actually separate images and make them clearer. They look more jumbled without a filter.

>>1177097
DoDonPachi, and MAME.

Use ShmupMAME is you want better latency at the cost of minor graphics glitches.

>>1177106
Agreed. DDP Dai Ou Jou is pretty good, though.

>>1177094
I find that the blockiness produces visual noise that makes it harder to see.

Notice the small details on the ship in OP's screenshots for example. Unfiltered looks like random pixels all over the body, I find it distracting.

>>1177114
thanks

>>1177116
DDP:DOJ is ridiculously difficult. Try Espgaluda instead, much more accessible for beginners.

>>1177032
Are they too dark? I'm used to my PVM which has very sharp and dark scanlines.

I find that light scanlines make it look somewhat blurry.

>>1177106
Dodonpachi isn't good "for the time," it's good period. It's a good game that still holds up, and so is Raiden. Why you hatin'?

>>1177114
>Use ShmupMAME is you want better latency than the real hardware would have had at the cost of using an incredibly outdated version of MAME that causes more problems than it fixes.
Corrected. ShmupMAME's heart is in the right place, but the guy making it is fucking insane. The only reason to use it is if you've got a really bad setup with a really laggy monitor and you need to try to offset this.

>>1177141
so what should i use then, if you dont mind?

>>1177141
The newest shmupmame is very recent.

>>1177148
The latest version of MAME is just fine for most games, and there's a slightly older version with support for some of the newer CAVE games.

>>1177149
>The newest shmupmame is very recent.
That's funny, last time I looked, shmupmame was moving BACKWARDS in terms of the version of MAME that it's based on, because the guy was doing things that were impossible on the newer versions of MAME.

When did that change?

>>1177156
February 18, 2013

>>1177159
Well then, I stand corrected. I still feel that many of their fixes break games that are working as intended, and one of their stated goals has always been to eliminate input latency even where it would exist on real arcade hardware.

>>1177150
>there's a slightly older version with support for some of the newer CAVE games.

And If you're unsure which version: just google "MAME Slowpoke Edition". It claims to be optimized for CAVE games but I personbally can't see any difference.

>>1177164
>I personbally can't see any difference
The thing is that support for a number of more recent games (futari comes to mind) was added briefly by the MAME developers, but then they decided it was too early to add support for them and rolled it back. At the very least, that's what I'm talking about. I'm not sure if that's the same thing, though.

>>1177161
I agree that regular MAME is fine. An extra frame or two is noticeable if you're used to playing without it but if it's part of the game it's part of the game.

>>1177171
It's part of the game, but all the other latency caused by emulation is not. ShmupMAME is closer to the original hardware.

>>1177197
>all the other latency caused by emulation
Which is mostly removed by simply using recent versions of MAME and not having a shit monitor.

>>1177198
Recent builds of ShmupMAME are based on new versions of MAME, because those too suffer from the same types of input latency.

>>1177202
>suffer from the same types of input latency
The latency is inherent to the game, not the emulation. The only reason to use shmupmame is to compensate for latency coming from another source, or because you're so obsessed with removing even latency present in the original hardware that you're willing to break games graphically to get rid of it.

>>1177205
so hey, do i have to update/get updated roms for new version of MAME

>>1177207
My understanding of it is that you only need to do that if it was found that something was dumped incorrectly, the rom is updated and you can't use the old one anymore. So I guess... sometimes.

>>1177205
The latency ShmupMAME removes is not the latency inherit to the game, it removes latency that is not present in the PCB which is introduced by the way MAME queues inputs.

>>1177267
It's probably that way in a lot of emulators but I wonder why I only see SHMUP players raising a stink about it. Autism?

>>1176969
>The whole filter hating is basically from people who grew up with emulators and don't know how the games actually looked like back than
Have you ever LOOKED at a CRT? It doesn't have "scanlines" because of the scattering light when the beam hits the phosphorus tube.

Seriously. I use to manage an arcade. The only time you saw "scanlines" is when the pixel density was so low on a large screen (26''+) that the scattering light didn't fill in the gaps.

Mame CRT filter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCQJ1DOaYiI

>>1177945
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyBWTt9sp0g

I generally don't like filters but that one gameboy filter which divides the screen into little blocks is loveley

>>1177946
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8IEwBo6VUA

>>1177951
RAW
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LCqJGdonAM

>>1177924
I think it needs to be said that whether you get scanlines or not depends on several factors, one of which is indeed size. Many people had smaller (15" to 19" by my estimation) shadow mask-type CRTs when they were kids, so it's no surprise they would not have seen scanlines on those. The lines would have bled together too much on such small sets for any visible gaps to be seen.

However, take your average 27" Sony WEGA circa 2002. It's scanline city, as I can personally attest to, as it's what I use.

>>1177952
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1PhT9Q10Eo

>>1177893
Shmups are the only competitive genre that's commonly played on emulators.

>2014
>emul8ing

The poorest of poorfags

>>1178019
Nice shop.

>>1178003
>Baiting this hard

>>1177954
VGA computer monitors have sharp scanlines at 240p due to very small dot pitch, even on small screens.

It looks beautiful in motion

>>1178025

Stay casual and poor.

>>1178045
I find it always funny how filter hating kiddies always take some shitty hq filter as an argument.

>>1178045
That actually doesn't look too bad.

>>1178045
Looks like yoshis island

#nofilter

>>1178003
>emul8ing

Go to bed Vriska.

>>1178070
>implying you think you know who you think I am cuz you dont bro.

Tep lol

>>1176987
If you're using a CRT monitor, set a 640x480 57.551hz display mode (or 1280x480).

Then you can use a 100% scanlines filter/shader to remove line doubling to achieve 240p output at the correct refresh rate

>>1178045
That game looks amazing!
10/10 would play
What is it?!

>>1178230
Boku no Pico

>>1178045
...I actually want to play SMB3 like that now.

>>1178251
Take your glasses off.

>>1178259
But then I won't be able to see anything at all.

>>1176778
Yes, that filter is shit. I say it.

>>1176778
Is this serious? Psst scanlines go sideways.

>>1178490
4/10

Classic >"but I was only pretending to be retarded" post

>>1178490

>what is tated mode?

>>1178261
Just like the developers intended.

>>1177090
>using filters on an emulator
>proper

>>1178490
look at the aspect ratio, it's in vertical mode (tate mode).

>>1176779

that resolution is incorrect

therefore it is filtered by default

>>1178560
>Playing with Go-Bots

>>1180006
>playing video games instead of talking about emulator accuracy and filter autism

Fuck your nigger shit, I play D'Don Patch on muh Saturn.

>>1178560
>GobotsAhegao.jpg

>filters are shit you say?

No, I don't say. Filters are awesome. Autists can go fuck themselves.

>>1176828
>muh outdated obsolete display technology

Not all filters are shit.

However, 99.9999999999999% of them are.

Filters are needed to get the image as the developers intended.

>>1181676
>as the developers intended.
I would like you to find a few quotes from developers where they say exactly that, because this gets parroted like crazy.

>>1181695
This one is pretty obvious, no ?

>>1181676
In Europe game ran at 50hz, 20% slower the speed and with a wider aspect ratio with black bars up and down.

It's totally not due to technical restrincts of the TVs themselves at the time, but totally what the developers intended, otherwise they would have made proper ports (like a handful of games which did run at proper speed)! They just thought europeans NEEDED the games to be slower because of their slower brains.

>>1181703
You suck at logic. Don't try it again.

>>1181676
Well of course it's going to look shit if you change the pixel aspect without filtering. But you only need to filter along one axis, so it can still look very sharp.

>>1181709
It has the proper aspect ration.

>>1178490
>derp

>>1181715
Of course, but SNES doesn't have 1:1 pixel aspect. You have no choice but to apply some filtering if you're scaling by a non-integer ratio. Here's a example of a correctly filtered NES game (same pixel aspect as SNES) with good sharpness. Note how only the x-axis is filtered, and the y-axis is scaled by an integer ratio so it doesn't need filtering.

If you scale it big enough you can have both axis scaled by an integer ratio.

>>1181702
Obviously it's not intended to be blurred or they'd have used a normal dithering pattern. The vertical lines are supposed to be visible to represent falling water.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqEZCAxh4Sw [Embed]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vr8zLbqAAFI [Embed]

You guys bitch about shaders, but you're just basing that on screenshots. They look fine in real world situations.

CRT Geom looks fine in real world situations.

>>1181676
Image clearly demonstrates what you're doing wrong.

>>1181772
Those images have the proper display aspect ratio of 4:3.

>>1181787
I know, I resized it to the correct aspect ratio. But I did it correctly, applying the minimum filtering necessary to one axis only, not duplicating pixels to turn it into an ugly mess like you did.

>>1181781
Don't forget people tend to judge while sitting a foot away from their screens. Would you ever do that with a CRT TV?

>>1176778
I use extreme filters, because I'm so extreme.

Simple scanline filters/shaders have one point : Removing line doubling from CRT monitors displaying at 480p. Using them on LCDs is dumb, they need more complex processing to look right.

>>1181993
How extreme.

>>1182062
How extreme? Extremely.

I used a filter once. It was awful.

>>1182189
that looks amazing, i lack the knowledge to even tell if it's filtered or not but this image just really impressed me

>>1182189

Game boy pocket palette is better.

Also that game has a CBC version.

>>1183017

>CBC

Canadian Broadcasting Corporation?

>>1183061
Came Boy Color retard.

>>1183067

>came boy
>came
>boy

>>1176778
>>1176779

Honestly it's difficult to tell the difference when they scale down in a browser window. Unless you are sitting right in front of your monitor, which is a crappy way to play games usually, is the difference even noticable?

>>1183076

The difference is absolutely noticeable, in both instances.

Do you have bad eyes?

>>1183076
The filtered image is obviously a bit darker because of the scanline bullshit. The third image is the unfiltered one (second), darkened a bit to compensate for this.

>>1183076
>Honestly it's difficult to tell the difference when they scale down in a browser window

That's because when your browser scales down images it uses bilinear filtering.

>not using NES filters for the best retro experience

What the fuck is this bullshit? Why is this one scanline randomly doubled?