/vr/ - Retro Games

its first person and you shoot people

Douk’s main attraction has always been the man himself.

>>11215352
Duke Nuke: cool but some levels are shit
Doom 1: game is shit after the first level because it's all the same and repetitive
Half-Life: Great game until Xen world

>>11215359
eh, duke 3d is just a good post-doom fps, quoting movie lines was just extra

>Compared to doom
Levels feel like actual places, instead of abstract bullshit with spess/hell textures
>Compared to Half life
Duke is more traditional, every map is a stage where you get scored, versus half life where each map is chained together with load zones to feel more like one long experience

>>11215352
its the deadpool version of reddit fps

>>11215352
In the middle.

>>11215352
Duke Nukem is a side stroller and the other 2 are first person shooters. Apples and oranges.

>>11215397
oooooooo burned, OP! This anon speaks the REAL truth.

Duke 3D has great multiplayer. There was a map i used to play with a small set of buildings and a ton of interweaving hidden air ducts and passages. Some great community stuff like that.

Doom multiplayer is... unbalanced at best.

Half-Life multiplayer was rad in small numbers, in large numbers it's... crazy chaos. Almost unplayably so. But 1 on 1? 2 on 2? 1 on 1 on 1? Legendary stuff, frankly.

For me, it’s Duke Nukem II.

>>11215352
It's not as good but still kinda fun.

It was one of the first ones you could up the resolution on so it looked great for the year it was released (I think quake you could too except it was buggier)

Not as interesting now (because games and gpu's are released 10x slower) but vg's were new back then

>>11215352
Inferior to both but has good one liners

Am I the only one who thinks the movement in Douk feels a bit strange? It does not feel as smooth as Dooms movement (or Blood, Starwars DF1, Half Life, etc) for some reason and it bothers me.

>>11215352
Favorably.

>>11215352
It's an American equivalent of JoJo - an unbelievably homosexual game with the grain of irony. In terms of gameplay, it's okay, pretty boring enemies, but the weapons are satisfying and some levels are really cool. It's a shame everything is gray.

>>11215352
play it and find out for yourself you imbecile.

>>11215359
Nah, it's the real-life inspired places and all the little touches, like when you discover you could move the balls on the pool table around, or get shocked by electric outlets, etc.

>doom
I'm doing a replay right now. I think in the context of its stronger adventure focus, levels being logical thematically coherent places it works, but judging it solely in terms of the combat ballet it definitely suffers in comparison. I'm exposing myself by admitting to watching a civvie video but I immediately thought of the shotgun dance bit, shotgun shuffle behind cover shotgun, something you'll need to do hundreds of times over the course of episodes 1 and 3, plays out pretty much the same each time.
>halflife
I think duke compares quite well especially for something from 1996. It has the same kind of puzzle platforming setpieces but it never has to completely abandon non linearity to make it work.

>>11215352
I haven't played much of them but from my experience Doom is much older style, Duke 3D offers twin stick controls if you play the N64 or
PS1 versions. There's also a couple Duke TPS games I haven't tried yet. Personally I prefer the older style FPS like Wolfenstein and Zero Tolerance, Duke GBA is nice though

its faster and encourages snappier action than doom. because most enemies are hitscan and most of your weapons are op, theres a big degree of rapid action in most stages alongside utilizing explosive set pieces.

basically, it just feels a bit more energetic than doom and has crazier weapons.

>>11215816
It also encourages you to keep switching your weapons since enemies are really vulnerable to certain weapons.

>>11215825
yeah, i think doom has more "vague" weapon switching whereas duke has more specific weapon switching. you have more varied options in doom for what to switch to whereas in duke what to do is pretty cut and dry tactically if that makes sense.

both do it well though

ITS EXACTLY THE SAME

>>11215392
>>11215728
kill yourself

All of them kinda sorta fight in their own leagues to me.

>>11215363
>after the first level
*after the first episode
after the shareware episode to get you to buy it, its shit.

>>11215701
I feel the same. Decino pointed it out about Build Engine games at some point.

>>11215352
>badass action hero has soft nerd hands

>>11215352
Its amazing and my favorite Doom-Like that isn't Heretic and Hexen.

Are there any good Duke Nukem games besides 3D?

>>11215352
Duke 3D had more things in the world to interract with and had more humour.
Doom was right to the point of shooting things.
Half-Life was a lame bag of wank with two or three not shit maps that instead wanted you to jump a lot and had a gay ass "story".

>>11215775
This. The familiarity and interactivity made Doom obsolete the day Duke 3D came out.

>>11215407
I never really played duke multiplayer for some reason, everyone played Doom 2 on dwango but I assume duke was possible because we were playing games like Warcraft 2

Did the pipe bomb fuck up the meta? I'd think remote detonating one shot kill weapons would be insane against human players. Otherwise the pipe bomb was so perfect in single player I think people would have kept on copying it forever like the Doom shotgun.

I played doom and duke recently for the first time. doom 1 and 2 both feel very simple in comparison to duke. Enemies, weapons, puzzles etc all seem to have more complexity and depth compared to doom. Not that doom is bad, but I think duke nukem 3d had the experience of a lot of other games in the genre to draw from.

i don't think i ever finished half life.

>>11217321
the pipe bomb is the most satisfying weapon to use in the game.

half life is good too but prefer doom and duke 3d

>>11216879
1 is pretty good if you can tolerate it
2 is also pretty good from what I've heard
People said nice things about Manhattan project

>>11215352
It's an FPS. It's got attitude. It's very enjoyable and competently programmed.
It doesn't feel like Doom. Doom has a fast paced tone of seriousness. Duke3D has more exploration and humor.

>>11215352

Duke Nukem 3D + Doom? O_o

> "DN3Doom"

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BWutKWl2IY0&pp=ygUHRG4zZG9vbQ%3D%3D

Awesomeness of the endlessly configurable, lightning fast GZDoom port with a surprisingly polished and faithful adaptation of Duke 3D.

Build engine destruction tricks seem absent in this vid (any emulating them would be up to doom mappers), but there are some fun gameplay additions that help on hairier difficulty levels. Lol.

Mix n' match gameplay modifiers, enemy packs and maps to your liking.

Also just noticed this vid seems to have the better SFX and dialogue samples from Duke3D World Tour. The version I have is the old school low-rez sounds of the base game. Need to resolve this.

>>11217419
>Enemies have more depth and complexity in duke
this is blatantly untrue.

>>11216879
excluding the expansions not really no, if this were the 90s and you had an n64 zero hour would have been ok. the other games are sort of interesting curiosities but none of them are 'good'.

>>11216879
1 is decent, 2 is good.
Duke Nukem Color is more or less like 2.
Manhattan Project and Time To Kill are honestly not bad at all.

>>11217419
>Enemies, weapons, puzzles etc all seem to have more complexity and depth compared to doom
That can be argued in detail.

>>11215535
duke mogged quake. he wasn't afraid

>>11216879
I always liked Manhattan Project
gameplay's mostly alright (only the space levels are a bit tedious for me), has some nice music and some of the best Duke one-liners

>>11219171
IMO they're just about on par with each other in terms of gameplay design and technology. You would not find any other shooters in 1996 which were anywhere close to as good as those two games.

>>11219207
takes balls of steel to not be afraid of century defining 3d technology. this should be inspirational for any indie dev out there today. be like duke was. stand proud.

>>11219236
iD and 3D Realms (Apogee) were very roughly in comparable seats, at least for the time, with the one main difference being that Apogee was also a not-small computer game publisher (even publishing for iD in the past), and that their autistic genius wrote sloppier code (but it was still good).

Beyond that, they were kind of just this gathering of fun and talented dudes with some good visions and ideas, and who had made enough money on previous ventures that they could realize grand games like these.
Studios like these were the real heart of American computer games.

>>11218754
Well that's how it felt to me. Doom 1 and 2 in general felt very simple and easy. Obviously Thy Flesh Consumed and Doom 2 up the difficulty a lot, but I felt like it was mostly due to the numbers of enemies more than anything. I never had to stop and think about how to advance in a level or how to get past a certain group of enemies in doom. It was all pretty much just one shotting the game. Granted that's on Ultra Violence but I doubt it's much different on the highest setting.

>>11215775
>real-life inspired places
I remember going around my daily life as a kid in the 90s and thinking "wow this place would make for an awesome Duke 3D map!"

those alien bastards are going to pay for shooting up my ride

>>11215352
I have beaten Doom 1 + 2 many times, quake, Half Life, etc.

I cannot for the life of me get through Duke Nukem. I understand it's appeal, especially in it's day, but it just doesn't keep me interested. Every time I try I get through the first couple episodes and then I lose interest. idk what it is. I think the enemy design just isn't appealing and something about the art style just doesn't do it for me. the setting etc, it's all just so silly. I think that's my problem, I really like that doom and quake and halflife take themselves seriously. This game is too goofy.

>>11219207

They're sort of different branches of development that were to some extent unified a bit under Half-Life.

Quake majored on pure and simple gunplay and deathmatches. Duke majored much more on an immersive experience, and puzzles between firefights which were sort of in the middle of Quake and Doom in their style.

They were a lot of fun in slightly different ways, and I remember being bowled over by both when I played them.

>>11219561
>destroy fan
>Fall
>Take damage
>Medkit doesn't heal all of it
why?

>>11219529
You're actually right, the pro-doom hugbox general on this board has made many Doom fans disconnect from reality.

>>11219868
Doom 2's monster set is fairly flexible and can do quite a lot, the new additions filled a lot of functional gaps in Doom 1's comparatively simple and less varied bestiary.
There are indeed some things which Duke Nukem 3D's monsters do better than Doom 2's monsters, but there are however also things which Doom's monsters do better than Duke's.

Duke mostly does hitscanners better because their aim isn't lagless, so you can actually strafe or otherwise dodge gunfire. Duke's low tier hitscanners are fairly robust, which is good in its own way, while Doom's low tier hitscanners are very fragile, which is good in another.
Duke's monsters do not do infighting in any way like Doom's monsters do, which does make them a little smarter, but it also means that you can't really do something like slaughter gameplay with Duke, where you'd herd large amounts of monsters and turn them against each other.

For weapons, Duke's guns are in most ways more complex and varied, but it doesn't have Doom's BFG, which is actually a really fascinating and amazing weapon in how it actually works and handles.
Doom has the Berserk Pack, which Duke sort of has with the Steroids, but it's on a VERY tight timer and with the boosted speed it gets tricky to use, so it doesn't give the same kind of opportunity.

>>11215352
I've always gotten bored and never finished it once.

>>11219928
Monsters in duke don't fight each other but they can hurt each other of

>>11216879
The 64 port and maybe Zero Hour for one playthrough. Still sad nobody has done a complete mod of 64's weapons into 3D.

>>11219998
Its the opposite for me, half life felt like a slog and i barely managed to finish it, but duke nukem kept my interest throughout the whole thing.

>>11215470
No effort for console port?

(Nintendo)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MylTXobYdoE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju0wetF-R-A
(Sega)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWy-RUBCic0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rh5bN7EhX6s

>>11215470
Wanna great action scroll? Play Super Contra.

>>11219565
Same. One of these days I want to setup something proper to try and enjoy everything this game has to offer.
When I was young I was too busy playing Doom II and then Blood to really give Duke3D a proper chance.

>>11216879
1 is okay
2 is fun
The console ports of 3D are a neat curio but none of them stack-up to the PC version
Time to Kill is alright
Zero Hour is pretty good, maybe even a bit underrated
Land of the Babes is mid
Manhattan Project is pretty good, probably the best 2D game and the best game in the series besides 3D
Everything after Manhattan Project is shit

>>11220320
Half life sucked from Xen on, overrated.

>>11215352
I prefer Doom for its pace and setting. Duke3D has good gameplay but I don’t care for the zany setting. Doom is more unironically edgy which is funner to me.

>>11220710
Xen is good.

>>11219171
The atmosphere for the 1st quake was fun to play because of its uniqueness and it didn't suck compared to most games at the time + decent level design

I put it on par with Duke or right next to it

>>11219565
Ha ya it gets a little monotonous after the first 5 levels or so. Other games kept me more interested back then

>>11220568
Wish forever release on GameCube

>>11219565
It's just not as interesting as those games. In its day, it was lauded for being technologically interesting - it had a level of interactivity that hadn't really been seen in the genre yet and was ultimately mogged to hell and back by Half-Life, which did what it was trying to do significantly better.
The weapon and enemy rosters, the level design, the atmosphere, everything - it's all just not as good as its contemporaries.
Its enemies are particularly uninteresting compared to Doom, Quake and Half-Life's. You're fighting the same 3-4 enemies for 90% of the game and they're just not interesting to fight, the most basic enemy is essentially harmless, the dangerous enemies are hitscanners, and there's an annoying rocket enemy. And that's basically the whole roster.

On top of that once you've played through episodes 1 and 2 you've seen more or less everything Duke has to offer so your interest naturally falls off. Episodes 3 and 4 are just more of the same. The vacation expansion is cool at least because it's rather novel.

>>11217321
Everything fucks up the multiplayer. That's why it's fun. A lot of things are instant kill: laser mines, rockets, Devestator spam for more than half a second, unexpectedly shrank or iced. It's a hoot as long as you have a few people who are willing to just go crazy

>>11219857
the point was to demonstrate verticality. something doom prior didn't even have
>look you can fall now real high, and take damage

>>11219857
i think if you let go of the movement key at the exact right time you only take 30 damage and it heals all of it, at least that's my theory unless it's just rng then fuck me i guess

>>11216879
Zero Hour is the closest thing to a DN3D sequel as it uses Build engine and even DN3D game code but with a new renderer that allows 3D models and dynamic lights.

Time to Kill is also a good action oriented Tomb Raider clone but the game assumes the player is familiar with Tomb Raider style gameplay

>>11217321
Pipe bombs don't one shot other players, they deal less damage than RPG rockets and you can survive RPG rockets given enough HP.

The real multiplayer meta is hiding laser tripmines in slopes (depending on the slope angle it renders them invisible) or planting them in respawn points and hoping you're not going to kill yourself respawning with it

>>11217321
>>11223326
and if you mean planting enough pipe bombs to OHKO someone, it's a real risky move because you're going to be wasting time doing that and potentially camping waiting for a victim, and in the end it's easy to miss because the other player moves really fast and can pick up your pipe bombs off the ground

As for shrink rays, using steroids make you grow back

>>11218706
Is that woman being sexualised?

Wtf. We need to do better.
Thank god times have changed

>>11223342
Not even a nose exhale. I don't find your attempt at satirizing modern bullshit humorous.

>>11215352
Eh, couldn't get into it, it suffers from same thing as rest of build engine games that I tried
>annoying hitscan enemies
>point-and-click tier of hiding switches/places that you need to go throught

>>11224560
I think it's the worst about it, too. Shadow Warrior and Blood (and Ion Fury) all have more interesting enemies. Duke really just has hitscan enemies, an explosive enemy, and a couple gimmicks.

>>11224675
Blood had the absolute worst enemies.

Yeah let's have tiny ass enemies on the ground that I can barely look at with Build engine limitations.
And let's repeat annoying flying enemies in an engine where I can't fully look up with the gargoyles.
How about an enemy that you have to kill multiple times and still poses no challenge in an effort to beat you by boring you to death?
Or the staple hitscans that give no delay and are pretty much guaranteed to lose you health.

>>11224560
Playing through Duke, the amount of times I thought I'd found a secret only to find that actually it was normal required progression was fucking ridiculous.

>>11224717
The prison level was the worst.
As a kid I never even beat it legitimately and used cheats.

>>11224710
imagine getting filtered by a 20 year old game lmao

>>11224717
It was opposite for me, I would roam portion of the map in Duke/Blood after clearing out all enemies for 10+ minutes, looking for way to progress, I'd find a switch or something only to find out that it's just a fucking secret, it's ridiculous how often I'd find every single secret before exit, only type of games where I was fuming upon finding secret rather than being satisfied.
>>11224720
Prison level buckbroke me, point-and-click tier exit progression as I said

I have suspicion that inherited from Doom and Wolfenstein games there was still some sort of pressure to make gorilion levels, but that was impossible since build engine levels were a lot more complicated/had more detailed standard, so instead they tried to stretch out gameplay time by upping difficulty (cue annoying hitscanners in every build shooter) and making level progression obscure.

The exit of the prison level is a reference to the Shawshank Redemption, something you were a lot more likely to know about when the game came out.

It's also in an area that you have to unlock through a specific method which by itself should be a clue that there is something there.

The only really bad switch hunt / progression hunt in Build engine games is in Redneck Rampage series, especially the first game

>>11215352
The water levels may be the worst water levels in all of gaming.

>>11224720
when I saw the poster in the cell I instinctively knew to go through it like shawshank, I imagine you would get stuck there if you didn't get the reference.

>>11225873
? I could see them being annoying but the flooded city block in shrapnel city was cool if nothing else, going from building to building.

>>11223321
>Time to Kill is also a good action oriented Tomb Raider clone
false

>>11219529
doom's enemies have supported endless iteration in the wad community, there's obviously other reasons why duke 3d's modding community never took off to the same extent but do you really think assault commanders and pig cops would support the same iteration?

>>11219529
the complexity of duke's enemies while somewhat novel is mostly superficial. certainly the way the assault troopers fly around with jetpacks or the enforcers jump around obstacles is neat but it's not something that's all that relevant to a combat puzzle. the elegance of doom's enemies, the way each of them fulfills a distinct combat need is what has supported the endless post game wad community. there's obviously other reasons why duke 3d modding never took off to the same extent but I don't the enemy roster is really up to par to support that.

>>11225873
They're fun and the controls are intuitive enough to not be frustrating. Sounds like you need to git gud.

>>11215352
I could never get into it. Tried it on PC, tried it on N64, tried it on Xbox 360, even tried the Saturn version (ironically the one I liked the most, but still never bothered to beat it). It just kind of feels like DOOM with all of the life sucked out of it, and stupid environmental interactivity elements added in to make you think it's more interesting than it is.
>grey, mundane real world locations as opposed to DOOM's crumbling keeps and hellish wastelands
>lame gimmicks weapons like the shrinker that are more goofy than gratifying
>uninspired enemy designs that are almost all just some form of brown alien with a gun
>le ebin one-liners and goyslop movie references
Slow, dull game. I'd like to call it style over substance but it doesn't even really have the 'style' part down. DOOM drips with atmosphere and attitude but D3D feels colorless and soggy by comparison, despite trying to be the exact opposite.

>>11217067
It's sad how few games pursued that level of interactivity. Cold Winter is a good one that has it going on.

>>11226009
there's a map on the wall of the prison level with an arrow pointing to the room with the poster, as a clue

>>11225758
>>11224560
>point-and-click
Puzzle solving and exploration is an element of old-school dungeon crawling, which is the real design inspiration, not point-and-click.

>>11226009
>>11228249
there was also "behind the babe" written in one of the dark crawlspaces

>>11228114
>goyslop

Next time, start with this so I know not to bother to read the rest of your post earlier on

>>11228249
>>11228504
I mean really, how were you supposed to know?!

>>11215352
duke is like the in between

>>11228515
>I mean really, how were you supposed to know?!
I eventually found the hole after turning on Parental Controls, which made the poster invisible and the hole wide open

>>11228136
ill check it out, thanks anon

>>11215359
main attraction was making those strippers shake it, baby

>>11228591
I dont know how anyone struggled with this I figured it out as a child. Even if you dont understand any references you can clearly see the wall is fucked up under the poster. How do you people make it through life with so little awareness of your surroundings?

>>11230331
>Even if you dont understand any references you can clearly see the wall is fucked up under the poster.
it's not as visible at 320x240, without blown-up brightness and on a monochrome monitor
>How do you people make it through life with so little awareness of your surroundings?
you would be surprised how seldom one needs to find hidden escape tunnels from prison cells