/vr/ - Retro Games

=== CURRENT RELEASE ===
Fraggot
https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/?id=21206

=== WHEN IT'S DONE ===

/Vertex Relocation/
IWAD : Doom 2 | Format : Boom
BETA V2: https://files.catbox.moe/tc0rgk.wad

=== NEWS ===
[8-26] Abysm 2 + Expansions Receive Anniversary Update
https://www.moddb.com/mods/abysm-2-infernal-contract/downloads

[8-24] ZScript versions of Legacy of Rust monsters + randomizer
https://doomworld.com/forum/topic/147247

[8-23] SPRAWL: total conversion for Quake
https://x.com/SPRAWLfps/status/1827028382577782884

[8-22] Marathon Infinity is on Steam + Workshop support for entire trilogy
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2398520/

[8-22] Lunatic, Vanguard, Valiant, Ancient Aliens update
https://doomworld.com/profile/8877-skillsaw/?status=1747176&type=status

[8-21] Goldsrc SDK got updated with HL 25th anniversary stuff
https://github.com/shawns-valve/halflife

[8-18] Blood: What Lies Beneath trailer
https://youtu.be/sx9bL36K7ng

[8-17] ZScript versions of Legacy of Rust weapons
https://github.com/jekyllgrim/ZSLoRWeapons

[8-14] Quake 2 Remaster - Back to Base(Q2)ics Jam announcement
https://www.reddit.com/r/quake/comments/1esd5iu/

[8-13] Doom 2 gets another ray tracing mod
https://moddb.com/mods/doom-2-ray-traced

[8-13] Xaser and Edward's interview about the new port is out
https://youtu.be/Ks64hePUFqg

[8-11] WadSmoosh ceases development
https://heptapod.host/jp-lebreton/wadsmoosh/-/blob/branch/default/GOODBYE.md

[8-11] DSDA-Doom v0.28.0 released
https://doomworld.com/forum/topic/146956

[8-10] Don't Be a Bitch 4 announced
https://doomworld.com/forum/topic/146945

[8-10] ID24: new specification built on top of MBF21
https://doomworld.com/forum/topic/146943
https://youtu.be/TCCFdOl_CP0

=== PREVIOUS ===
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-vrTgPGmlLwdO5VHHCJMxmRD05E6XlNmqHIN8aykRG0
TO SUBMIT NEWS, REPLY TO THIS POST (ideally with the [mm-dd] date bracket)

Doom is an ok game.

Objectively speaking, what is the best megawad of all times?

Scythe 2?

>>11193389
There isn't one, nothing does absolutely every single thing it can do perfectly with no room for improvement.

Gib GMOTA

>>11193397
How would you improve Scythe 2?

>>11193402
a sector toilet in every level

>>11193402
Make the afrit less tanky.

Yeah that's it. I can't say much of the difficulty but the afrit being less tanky would be nice.

>>11193402
loading it with brutal doom

>>11193402
i like scythe 1 better because 2's custom enemies are annoying

>>11193402
finishing scythe x

>>11193407

>>11193389

UAC Labs
A Gamarra tribute: Gamarra's destiny
Doomguy's Warzone
Doomguy's Warzone All Stars!
30,000 Levels
Wow
NUTS
Hell Revealed 1943

*filters you*

>>11193558
>how many of you skipped thy flesh consumed and moved right
I didn't skip, and I moved *below*.

Immersive MSX anon here. Experimenting with the High Resolution Textures without the High Resolution (shitty name) texture pack, bloom and lens distortion some more, I think I vibe with the list I cooked up for Jade Earth. This is probabbly as far as I go with graphical enhancements though.

I previously used Doom 64 textures and Doom 3 textures, but they just kinda were a little muddy. I think these are nicer.

please seed the quickstart archive. I asked this two threads ago.

>>11193567
thanks anons.

To the anon who made this edit to the ssg for me, I appreciate you helping make it for me very much, thank you. You did a really good job, even for it being a quick edit. I would also really like to see what the rest of the edits you would do to the other frames I posted would look like.

>>11193564
Would anyone be interested in a hypothetical doom 64 project?
https://strawpoll.com/Q0Zp77XXDgM

>>11193648
I have been wanting to tone down my reliance on Archviles and Revenants.

>>11193619
I don't want to sound too greedy as I am really grateful to be having someone do these edits for me, I do have some things I would like to say there is a few spots I would like to be touched up a little, I highlighted them in red. I only really notice those spots as they are repeated patterns from other parts of the stock. Other than that, this is perfect. I am really glad you helped me with this anon, thank you.

>>11193651
I haven't, I use them more.

>>11193425
Scythe X is really mid compared to Scythe 2, it's no wonder he gave up on it.

>>11193648
please don't end up like vertex relocation and waifu wad

>>11193648
I don't really care for Doom 64 much. It's cool, I guess, but I'll pass.

I'm more interested in making some gritty industrial maps for Sun Damage Omen desu.

>>11193530
>gmota shotgun looking mean
>write site server bad yes
>dude souls
>harder medkits
>monsters wanted bitch
>faggot knights

>>11193370
That Doom Loss image brings back a surge of nostalgia. Damn 2008 /v/ was great. Take me back please.

>>11193707
Yeah it's in hypothetical planning realm so far so no worry, I'll wait until other projects finish their turn and some vacuum arises - I also plan it to be opposite of 94 protons in terms of additional content (no offense to good old Choppy, I hope he's well) - no custom textures, no custom monsters of any kind, just whatever maps people send and whatever midis they send (yes, doom 64 uses midis, it just plays them with a built-in soundfont, how cool is that?), maybe some custom menu graphic and intro cutscene map and that's it
Just now started browsing previous thread after not being here for long and I see Guywithteacup floating a different idea so I'll wait and see if that catches momentum

>>11193723
>opposite of 94 protons in terms of additional content
Which is how every project save for ad mortem was run, mind you. Just standard procedure around here.
I won't be mapping, but I hope this can get off the ground, good luck. (why is "no" an option btw. isn't a novote basically the same answer?)

Since I've seen that some people have been asking Adrian Carmack some questions on LinkedIn, I kinda want someone to ask how the SP_FACE1 texture was actually made.
Like, was it sketched with a pen, an oil painting? Digitized and edited from people's faces?

At some point when someone was toying with using them to make a monster (now becoming Legacy Of Rust's Banshee), some of the faces look distinctly familiar, yet also different.

>>11193483
Is... is he swirling down the drain?

>>11193730
>(why is "no" an option btw. isn't a novote basically the same answer?)
I may be retarded, but I figured a vote for no means "I see this idea but I don't like it" whereas not voting at all could mean either that or just not noticing the post/poll

>>11193763

>>11193648
tell me more about what you envision by a doom 64 project.
Just using the D64 textures and assets?
Designing D64 like levels, aka low monster counts, more dark and moody?
D64 in name only?

Is AI-generated Doom allowed to be discussed?

>>11193730
>Which is how every project save for ad mortem was run, mind you. Just standard procedure around here.
2048 and HFFM had weapon sets designed for them.

>>11193776
If you're talking about the thing that just came out, it's utter shit so it's not worth talking about.

>>11193787
They weren't fundamental to the maps though.

I can understand anybody being reluctant to do custom shit with how Cockblock dragged 94 Protons out into it's own death by chasing that shit.

>>11193787
Not by the project leads though.

>>11193791
It's neat, albeit mostly proof-of-concept than anything worth investing in seriously.

>>11193793
94 Protons' guns aren't fundamental to the maps either. Everything is already playable, and has been playable for a couple of years. But they've held up the entire project this time.

>>11193793
>They weren't fundamental to the maps though.
They were just reskinned vanilla weapons?

>>11193372
https://gamengen.github.io/
look at this shit, it's so over

>>11193809

>>11193801
I thought it was the monster shit that held it up while he was still working on it, even though realistically monster shit needs to be at least functionally workable to even start mapping.

can I play 94 protons whatever was made?

>>11193809
>fucky blurry textures that warp back and forth because it can't decide how it's supposed to look.
Yeah that would shit bricks if it came across fireblu, shit's of no practical value to anybody.

>>11193832
>shit's of no practical value to anybody
today

>>11193836
So when will this hunk of shit have a game state?

>>11193823
I totally forgot about the boss monster(s).

>>11193829
https://mega.nz/folder/z9ZVEAJJ#t4IEL6VGFY7tBBMIEOKXUA

>>11193852
neat

>>11193771
>Just using the D64 textures and assets?
Yes
>Designing D64 like levels
In gameplay no, in aesthetic yes.
>Low monster count?
Not necessarily, if you want to make a slow gameplay moody map go for it, if you want to do gameplay that doom 64 never seen (large monster counts, utilising the faster elemental and lost soul, hectic gameplay that wouldn't play well on n64 controls, creative macro use, whatever experiments you think of) then also go for it
>More dark and moody
Hell yes, though I don't feel I need to enforce this at all, it's hard to make cheery, lurid maps with d64 assets and graphical engine - and even if you manage to do an innovative look that departs from the broodiness then all the more points to you, go for it. It'll stand out as a secret level in vein of club doom from ps1 doom
>D64 in name only?
More like "64 bits of /vr/"

>>11193823
If you were here for 2021 you would know that the project's *start* kept being delayed for the dumbest fucking reasons imaginable. It was scheduled for a 2022 January start date but kept getting held back by these idiotic delays. At first it was because he was working on a new boss enemy, a black cyberdemon palette swap (riveting.) The most egregious delay was on April 1st when he revealed that this cyberdemon was actually just an episode 1 boss and he was actually making 3 bosses. https://desuarchive.org/vr/thread/8765819/#8771308
Seems his transparency issues were there since day 1.
Anyway, what's more annoying is that he would try to shoot down ideas for future projects because he wanted people to wait for his super cool and special project, I vividly remember when 400 minutes of /vr/ was first tossed around he started getting pissy with the lead of that saying he was impatient and that 94 protons would start before 400 minutes even finished (this proved to be untrue.)
Damn this only covers from when 94p didn't even start yet. If I typed out everything we'd be here all day, but in short, there's a level of maturity that people need to be successful project leads. Chopblock doesn't have it. That's why we say 94 protons never.

>>11193836
All it's doing is faking up Doom based on shitty screens and stuff, apart from them probably going to get some shit from Microsoft lawyers sooner or later, it's also massively resource intensive for something worse than running a sourceport, so I guess it's useful for Graf Zahl to point at as a low bar.

>>11193370
When did you realize Bethesda lurks the doomworld forums and steals ideas for years?

>>11193809
I... I don't get the point of this. Is it going to be a better Oblige and generate new levels?

>>11193918
No, it's doing nothing of the kind.
>GameNGen can interactively simulate the classic game DOOM at over 20 frames per second on a single TPU.

What wads are good that go well with DN3Doom? I'm having a hard time finding a lot that do.

>>11193923
Maybe Eday? Kind of fits the theme of ruined Earth and some space aliens stuff

>>11193923
Doom2 Rebuildt.

>>11193921
Sounds kind of pointless to me.

>>11193935
Yep, it's just more desperately trying to find some reason to make AI shite worth the money burned on it so far.

>>11193723
>I see Guywithteacup floating a different idea so I'll wait and see if that catches momentum
You are free to go at the moment. Only 14 anons downloaded my test map and only few of them posted their thoughts, however most of them were in the style of "It just didn't clicked because Serious Sam gameplay is bad".
Not to mention that current DeHacked patch is bugged, unstable and crashes on anything except GZDoom forks for no seemable reason and it's not like I'm gonna get help with that any time soon.
My idea got zero tracktion here so I most probably will switch my attention to my personal projects and making levels for an actual job that makes me actual money.
t.GuyWithTeaCup

>>11193943
You STILL haven't posted the decohack code so that someone can try and fix it.

Anyone more knowledgeable about dehacked ambient sounds around? I keep running into issues with one of my sounds, picrel is how it's set up in Whacked.

Basically the sound doesn't play in full and/or fades away before the given tics finish counting.

>>11193946
Well there is NO any decohack code in the first place. I did it all in WhackED4 and the notepad.

>>11193950
Well that explains why it doesn't work.

>>11193931
>>11193934
>Eday
In the middle of a Brutal Doom run of it, but that's a good idea for a replay since DN3Doom changes the enemies too. Thanks!
>>11193934
First thing I tried, was great to play. Really wish the guy who made it had continued making it, or at least finished up the third map, it was a good alternative to Eday when it came to adapting vanilla Doom to a more "realistic" looking style of maps which there's a surprising lack of.

I like the flesh worm enemy from freedoom a lot. I want to squish more creepy crawlies like this. Suggestions?

>>11193950
I'll try to recreate what you have so far with Decohack so it can start working in non-ZDoom-based ports.
>Enemies and projectiles are all twice as fast, with half the health
>Lost Souls explode as a melee attack, have no dash.
>Pinkies get the Lost Soul charge attack
>Pain Elementals fire Revenant missiles
>Archvile throws a projectile that leaves behind a fire trail
>Everyone gets a boss death state
Did I miss anything?

>>11193934
does this have music?

>Compound
>Neurosphere
>NME

That's it?

so many random schizo noises and gutteral sound cues in doom 3, okay I admit its fuckin scary, its not just imp jumpscares, enemies creeping up from the darkness is p scary

yknow there arent that many fps games that are like this, scary yet action oriented not survival horror shit

>>11194073
I swear the whisperings in Doom 3 are the souls of Hells victims.
Proof?
They often lead you to more ammo or a secret early gun. The "They took my baby" voice outright rewards you with a fuckton of ammo and no monsters. These are vengeful spirits who see what you're doing to the demons and fucking like it.

>>11193997
Let me elaborate:
-All enemies have half HP, but twice the speed.
-All projectiles have twice the speed and damage, but some of them can be shot and destroyed (shootable flag) - Rockets have 17 HP, Revenant rockets and Baron fireballs have 15HP, Imp and Caco fireballs have 10 hp. BFG, plasma and Mancubus fireballs still can't be shot down.
-Pistol have infinite ammo, 30-35% faster, but uses inaccurate chaingun attack.
-Shotgun is 25% faster too.
-Chaingun uses pistol attack which makes it pinpoint accurate and fires twice as fast. Bullet limit is rised from 200 to 400 (800 with a backpack)
-BFG attack consumes 50 cells. Limit is rised from 200 cells to 300 cells (600 with a backpack).
-Lost souls still have their charge, but have zero damage. They charge player constantly by having a SkullAttack codepointer in their "Walk" state to prevent them from forgetting their target. When they get close enough for a melee attack or killed - they explode with an "Explode" codepointer.
-Pinkies/Spectres have charge attack as well, but shouldn't damage other demons with it. Only the player (if possible - player must be thrown up in the air a bit as if he was hit by an archvile)
-Pain elementals basically shoot Revenant rockets instead of spawning a lost soul. However they still spawn them when they die.
-Archvile last three frames of attack spawns fire that tracks the player and climbs the obstacles (except for walls), while leaving a lasting for 5-6 seconds trail of mildly damaging fire. If fire trail meets the wall, it explodes, damaging everything in the close radius. Archvile also can't ressurect anymore.
-Everyone gets a boss death state in their very first death frame.

-Additional: all changed monsters get several copies in slots which can be referenced with a UMAPINFO. (Deh_Actor_145[...]Deh_Actor_249)

>>11194073
Man, I hope you're playing with EAX on, if not you're missing out.

>>11194073
like here for example in this lab theres a creepy soundtrack + all kinds of computer and machinery beeping n shit, it wouldn't be scary if I put on some jolly music but with headphones it is, complete with the cheap imp jumpscare
https://streamable.com/c563l1

>>11194087
yeah the soul cube does the same with the souls of the aliens or whatever that killed the demons in the past beckoning you

>>11194098
yeah its on, the sound quality and directional audio is very good actually

ID24 is worthless unless you can recreate the Unmaker with it.

>>11194119
The Unmaker is basically a hitscan weapon, so it might.

being a doom newfag is so overwhelming, so many wads to play. I beat Doom 1 and 2 twice over the past few days (except thy flesh consumed, I heard its harder than Doom 2) and now I'm trying out TNT

>>11194127
I meant its upgradable behavior with the demon keys. It could probably be done with checking for a specific ammo type that would be a stand-in for the demon key amount, but AFAIK that's not in the spec.

>>11194137
nice bwo, of the mainstream total conversions I suggest eviternity 1 + 2, they're basically their own game with how many high quality levels they have

>>11194098
There's something about how dhewm3 handles EAX that causes bullet impacts to be multiplicative, so if you fire the shotgun, all the individual pellet noises completely drown out everything else in the game. Other than that, it's pretty neat.

>>11194073
>yknow there arent that many fps games that are like this, scary yet action oriented not survival horror shit
It’s not an FPS but Dead Space is unapologetically “3rd person Doom 3” I guess Doom 3rd.
>multiple enemies per “encounter”
>not bad enemy roster
>spoopy ambience, fun bathrooms
>fun dead babies enemies
It may be super not retro but still fun if you liked 3.

>>11194146
May relate to how Creative Labs fucking ruined EAX for everyone because they didn't want the competition.

>>11193991
All the alien TCs and mods? Those two alien fpses for ps1 I believe?

>>11194161
yeah i've played dead space, 1 remake recently made my PC scream, and it was a fun experience, maybe not worth what I paid for it given how short that game is
also played 2/3

>>11194105
>https://streamable.com/c563l1
Are those just upscaled touched up textures of those gray computer terminals from the original dooms? Holy based, gotta get to doom 3 finally

>>11194182
im just using dhewm3 + enhanced edition mod, no idea if the mod touches up textures but its only 160mb

>>11194182
>>11194185
oh yeah the high res version of dhewm3 though
https://github.com/user-attachments/files/16258932/dhewm3-1.5.4pre-highfps3_win32.zip

game runs n feels great, just can't play for more than like 1-2 hours a day before being too spooked, its fuckin intense how many enemies it throws at u all the time in close quarters, doom 1-2 are much more relaxing lmao

>>11194198
high fps*

>>11194119
Do you mean laser rifle from D64 or what?

>>11194137
>TNT
Ah. You might burn out here, TNT is not very good. Plutonia is much better but you're also going to want to save often if its your first time.

>>11193902
Still kind of of impressive that there is so much game footage of E1M1 out there that an AI can pretty much recreate large sections of the map. It makes me wonder how many months (years?) of E1M1 footage there is out there.

Also I don't know much about what goes under the hood with AI or training, but I think it would be much cooler if an AI could be trained on raw map data (vertex locations, entity locations etc) then just shit out wad with some ai levels.

>>11193389
For me, it's Going Down

>>11194249
I heard TNT was easier than Plutonia, but I also notice TNT seems to be disliked by a lot of people, what makes it bad?

>>11194269
>I think it would be much cooler if an AI could be trained on raw map data (vertex locations, entity locations etc) then just shit out wad with some ai levels.
We already have Oblige, someone just needs to make a smarter version of that really. One that doesn't make boring, soulless levels that are outclassed even by some kids first attempt.

>>11194137
I'm not a Doom newfag, but I have been going through most the commerical releases (plus some extras) because the recent re-release got me back into a Doom mood after not playing for years. Really enjoying my time so far.

>>11193389
I second Going Down for the sheer creativity and sense of fun, but Ancient Aliens is also a lot of fun with a godlike soundtrack. The music is either oddly comfy and relaxing for a Doom level or hypes you up.

>>11194137
>skipping TF
fag

>>11194094
>-All enemies have half HP, but twice the speed.
But why? Enemies will end up having pretty much no health left aside from Hell Barons, Archviles, Cybers and Masterminds. I think it'd be keep enemy health mostly the same aside from a few exceptions.
>-All projectiles have twice the speed and damage, but some of them can be shot and destroyed (shootable flag)
Same here, I think it'd be better to have speed at -fast levels and projectiles do 1.5 more damage at most.
>-Pain elementals basically shoot Revenant rockets instead of spawning a lost soul. However they still spawn them when they die.
Why not turn them into D64 Pain Elementals?
Speaking of Revenants, why not have them shoot two projectiles at once, both of them random, meaning they either can be both non-homing, one of them homing or both of them homing. Arachnotrons could work like blue mechaniloids and shoot a stream of plasma before getting to move again.

>>11194275
TNT isn't bad per se, it's just incredibly inconsistent and tends to be meh more often than not. Don't get me wrong, when it gets good it gets pretty good, but that doesn't happen that often unfortunately.

>>11194276
my feelings on oblige and obsidian as well, they are impressive, while it makes impressive level, even with setting sets to max randomness and surprise me selected, they all have a uninspired samey feeling

>>11193809
>mention early in the paper that you want it to be playable by a human
>human evaluation only consists of people being shown 1.6 or 3.2 second clips and picking which is the original game instead of playing the video game
>model's historical memory max is conveniently just a little over 3 seconds long
0/10 got me to click

>>11194269
It's a lot easier when you're feeding it hundreds of hours of footage a day, it's probably why it's got fucked blurry textures too, shit's been eating GzDoom.

>>11194276
>One that doesn't make boring, soulless levels that are outclassed even by some kids first attempt.
That's all that AI can ever do, regurgitate what it's been trained on, it wouldn't be any better.

>>11194323
I figured the image was blurry to save on processing, but it does show those black bullethole decals at times.

>>11193832
>fucky blurry textures
graf's wet dream

AI!
MAKE ME ANCIENT ALIENS 2 FOR SUPER NOAH'S ARC 3D!
COMP LEVEL 11!
ADD MORE SCYTHE 2!
LITTLE MORE!
JUST RIGHT!
TURN THE SLAUGHER UP 40... NO 60%!
PERFECT!

>>11194398
Jarvis, generate Doom II: Hell on Earth and give the cyberdemon an enormous, floppy flaccid penis that makes up 1/3 of the sprite's visuals. Make no other changes.

>>11193809
>ouch face for 5 seconds after blowing up barrel
What footage is this trained on that has that much ouch?

>>11194294
>But why? Enemies will end up having pretty much no health left aside from Hell Barons, Archviles, Cybers and Masterminds. I think it'd be keep enemy health mostly the same aside from a few exceptions.
1. It allows to throw a lot of enemies without overwhelming the player and allowing even the weak weapons be fun to use.
2. Increase in speed combined with an increased damage makes enemies much more agressive. They are easier to kill one by one, yes, but at the same time it is actually in many ways harder when there is are few or more.
>Same here
>Why not turn them into D64 Pain Elementals?
Because it is an idea for "Doom the way Croteam would did it" - we don't have spawning monsters in original Serious Sam's.
>why not have them shoot two projectiles at once
No. Too much.
> Arachnotrons could work like blue mechaniloids and shoot a stream of plasma before getting to move again.
Don't they work like that in the original? There is literally nothing to change.

>>11194398
What can AI do for Doom? Can it make me levels better than oblige and fill them with my taste in coomer sprites?

>>11194417
Yes, but it won't be able to remake E3M2.

>>11194361
It obviously doesn't know what to do a lot of the time, it loses walls and chunks of the map, the nukage damage is wildly inconsistent and shit just seems to de-load when out of it's view.

It's just a whole lot of nothing with some marketing technobabble to impress the dopey shits in the comment section of that video.

>>11193809
So that's the next big thing media and content creators alike will farm for engagement like My House and that Thatcher thing. With masses discussing and gaslighting themselves into liking it solely because that's the popular topic of the week. Cool.
>>11194323
>>11194329
And it will get worse once it starts feeding off itself.

>there are """people""" who actually prefer DOOM 1 over 2

>>11194449
thats me, I prefer the episodic format

>>11194447
https://youtube.com/watch?v=6Gha9xrM10w

>>11194456
>losing all of your equipment progress because uh, well uhh...
Gay shit, especially if you're going for some marathon deathless run. If you really want "episodes" in DOOM 2 then just make a save at each level following intermission text and make your own.

>>11194461
>>because uh, well uhh...
Game design?

>>11194409
>Don't they work like that in the original? There is literally nothing to change.
They work like turrets in the OG. They will only stop shooting when you break line of sight
>1. It allows to throw a lot of enemies without overwhelming the player and allowing even the weak weapons be fun to use.
But not to the point that you can one or two shot a huge part of monster roster with SSG/RL, that's simply too much. Hell, you can one shot DEMONS with ordinary SG which is unthinkable! And then there's BFG which becomes even more absurd because for low, low price of 50 cells you get to one shot literally any enemy. How can that be OK?

>>11194461
meh every doom 1 episode feels pretty distinct and varied though sorta like mini games

whereas doom 2 is one big slog, I just prefer the 1 format, do miss super shotties tho

It legitimately bothers me that there are human beings alive on this planet right now who have not experienced Ancient Aliens. That shit isn't even a wad, it's pure art.

I want to make my first map lads, what do I start with, comfy shotgun heavy techbase using stock assets for that original amateur feel?

>>11194463
>Game design?
Bad design.

>>11194475
Oh, you didn't want serious replies? Never mind then

>>11194470
The truth is that 90% of levels in DOOM 1 are complete trash and you just like episodes so you can easily play E1 over and over and compartmentalize it.

>>11194475
>>11194461
how the fuck is it bad design, you know how many people pistol start doom? you get a shotgun fast enough on any level, its no big deal

>>11194474
Too many shotgun maps, make more chaingun maps.

>>11194481
Pistol start was designed as an incentive not to die. Pistol starting every map is a self-imposed challenge and is not how you are intended to play. You're supposed to try and survive and build up a hoard of weapons and resources that you use strategically, sometimes saving them for levels far in the future. In DOOM 2, you have to think critically about every use of resources because you don't get a soft restart. In DOOM 1, you have the comfort of knowing you'll eventually start a new episode with a pathetically easy first level where you can restock, no matter how badly you fucked up your inventory.

>>11194493
but but but the big doom tuber said that you have to play saveless uv max or else you are not playing doom! how else can is stroke my epen if I dont act like everyone is playing the game wrong and not as the designers intended?

>>11194504
Do you have any argument except making up boogymen and pretending to be retarded? I'm just telling you why the episodic format is trash from a mechanical perspective and you're shitting blood. Calm down.

>>11194493
>>11194504
I don't do it, just don't think hogging a weapon is a huge deal, doom 1 simply has more variety than doom 2 in the levels cause of the format

>>11194474

Use the nukage texture to make a little castle of slime and have it defended by imps and zombie men. You have to take the castle by use of a radiation suit and berserker fists.

>>11193809
>those credits
>freeware
it's all about the money

>>11194509
>DOOM 1
>variety
The entirety of E1 is basically one repeated grey tech base level and 90% of the game is spent shotgunning zombie men and imps. D1 has no variety until E4.

>>11194449
I prefer Doom Shareware over Doom, Doom 2 and Ultimate Doom, actually.

>>11194527
E4 is certainly an awesome episode, but every episode has its own distinct identity and vibe, unlike doom 2, I can't think of a single doom 2 level right now besides the start n the end, anything in between is a blur

>>11194449
only bandwagoner shitters prefer d1. last few levels of e3 and e4 get spongey as fuck with shotgunning cacos and other forms of aids, whole game just becomes repetitive and exhausting and most of the levels are ugly and meandering. spider mastermind is also an awesome enemy to add mid level but as the final boss of the game in not one but two episodes when it dies from 1 fucking BFG shot was a complete joke. crazy how troons have convinced themselves that d1 is better just because it has a fucking map select screen with 4 options, whoopdie doo. I'll take my SSG, 2x bigger enemy roster and better levels, thanks.

>>11194461
Losing equipment progress can be based. I love how Duke3D does it in Death Row or RR does it in Nuthouse.

>>11194551
Disagree. Losing all your gear always sucks, and I loathe escape from butcher's bay for doing it THREE TIMES during the game.

Halo basically pistol starts you every level.

>>11194550
>last few levels of e3 and e4 get spongey as fuck with shotgunning cacos
why the hell aren't you using your rockets or plasma

>>11194551
Nah man it, it's never based, it's just gay.
>Those 20 rockets you had left from E1? Bet you'd like those for E2...
>Lmao jk bro, pennjillette.png
>b-but here's the obligatory shitter map so you can get your basic shotgun and chaingun back
I don't see the appeal.

>>11194556
well I mean butcher bay is a prison, it makes sense that you gear gets confiscated every time you're recaptured

>>11194559
Halo is also kind of shit game if we're being honest.

>>11194556
EFBB had some weird shit going on with the items
>hey look a shop where I can buy a hunting knife and kevlar vest, sweet
>end up getting captured again 1 minute later and losing it before you even get a chance to need it
Not related but you can also get soft locked in the mech segments. Cool game but it had issues.

>>11194564
For different reasons desu

>>11194560
he was saving for doom 2 :^)

>>11194573
Halo's implementation of weapons was one of its biggest issues IMO

>>11194581
been a hot minute since i played the halo games but i remember taking more issue with the enemy design basically being all hitscanners so it felt like aggressive play was actually discouraged

>>11194583
Halo 1 doesn't have any hit scan enemies until the last half of the game and even then there aren't a lot.

>>11194550
>preferring doom 1 to doom 2 makes you a troon
mentally ill, I just like the classics

>>11194456
Same. Are there any mapsets coming to mind with ammo/weapon pickups that are well balanced around continuous?

>>11194591
the fact you singled that out says a lot.

>>11194596
its just a brainrotted take and getting way too heated over which 30 year old shooter is preferred, makes you look like an unhinged retard, and I'm willing to bet you're just trying to be an epic contrarian by calling most of the doom 1 levels garbage

>>11194589
Well not literally hitscan, but projectiles move incredibly fast (this is actually how the bullet weapons work haha) so it's functionally almost the same. I think if it was more feasible to dodge enemy projectiles it would complement the shields mechanic pretty well, then it would become a game of "can the player dispatch of the enemies before losing his shields?"
then again i'm not making games so

>>11194605
>it's a "brainrotted take" to think the game with half as many enemies and levels made by novices is kind of shit
bro romero shit out E4M3 in 6 fucking hours and petersen didn't even know how to use the editing tools until halfway through development. calling most D1 levels garbage is an understatement and being a bandwagoner nice guy redditor does not make you cool or intelligent.

>>11194596
It says more about you than anything. Namely that you're just going through your edgy rebellious phase

>>11194614
admittedly I have tons of nostalgia for doom 1, more so than doom 2, but besides a few stinkers the levels are fine and iconic

>>11194583
They're not hitscanners, but the enemies in 2-onward predict your movement well enough that it's extremely difficult to avoid damage.

people who call nukage "toxic waste" or "radioactive waste" should be banned from using computers.

Continuing the debate from last thread, Legacy of Rust is indeed feeling like a fanmade episode in its level design approach (all in monster spam, throw everything at the player, fancy looking areas with no coherence with the rest of the map, repetition combined with confusing layouts and unimaginative keycard hunting), unlike Sigil and NRFTL which both felt like proper level designer work despite their occasional blips (E5M9 feels like a fanmade level for Sigil, and we are still waiting for Sigil 2's updates).

I would have loved to see the two oddball guys in Legacy more. Map03 with it's sexy textures and Map13 with its nice Doom Eternalish layouts. Unfortunately both maps are repetitive and way too hard in their gameplay, so they are missed opportunities.

>>11194649
always bet on nuke

>>11194664

I can't believe they allowed the horseshit that is The Troopers' Playground onto the featured mods section.

>>11194615
>no u
try harder

>>11194686
They actually had to be fucking around when designing this.

>>11194664
Agreed. I'll never understand this idea that slaughter maps are the pinnacle of Doom and that every map should be that. Usually it just compensates for poor level design.

>>11194686
there is something about that weapon sprite that just rubs me the wrong way, just feels really out of place, like one of those wads that include weapons just cut a plasted from other games and resized to fit doom.

>>11194703
Supposedly it was meant to be a pretty throwaway weapon tutorial level originally and got moved about later.

>>11194583
It's not hitscan, but due to the accuracy of the enemies and how slow you move it may as well be.

>>11194694
>the horseshit

>>11194713
It's got a very cheap and plasticy look to it, it's obviously not had the art passes that the BFG got to make it look like it fits the theme.

>>11194686
I don't mind LOR until the very end, but this is exactly what ruins it for me. Clusterfuck fights that require trial and error that result in an instant death if you fuck up. Xaser can't make official-feeling maps, all of his are the worst in the set.

>>11194726
The seams along the arms make it look like a toy.

>>11194678
I AM A SHADOW WARRIOR

>>11194728
Genuinely, what was he thinking with The Coiled City?

>>11194738
>make 2 tutorial maps for the new guns
>both of them appear right at the end of each respective episode
>they're both the hardest maps in the wad
I wish I had an answer. It makes LOR feel like a community project, where you have that one guy show up who is really fucking good at Doom and makes maps with a massive difficulty spike compared to everything else.

>>11194695
You are so easily fit into a simple archetype and you have zero fresh perspectives to add

>>11194749
>DOOM 1 is... LE better than DOOM 2 LOL
this is what you consider "fresh" apparently

>>11194752
Take away the edgy demeanor from your posts and you're left with nothing.

Now kiss and make out

>>11194757
i'm sorry that you're upset but doom 1 is still a shittier game than D2 in every way imaginable and you need to relax

>>11194774
NTA but DOOM 1's maps and gameplay are far superior to DOOM 2's desu... carlos "sanderos" petersenero's presence is felt very strongly in 2 and that's not a good thing

>>11194774
I'm not even invested in that topic lol. I'm exclusively targeting your posting style because it broadcasts that you're a teenager

>>11194783
>i'm not even here for doom, i just want to make you seethe!!!!
anime protagonist tier personality, embarassing.

>>11194784
That is not what is being said, I am simply telling you your posting sucks. You have to reinterpret posts on a fundamental level to even respond to them.
Anyway that's enough from me. You guys need to finish /Vertex Relocation/

>>11194735
Nearly every weapon in Doom is a toy, in a way.
There's been a recent discovery that the Rocket Launcer was some mini soldier rifle.

>>11194783
ok heres your (You) now take a shower

>>11194792
>uhm, acshually...
Yeah, we know, the point is they don't look like toys, unlike that one.

>>11194781
D1's maps range from amateur hour like e1m2 to actual trash like fortress of mystery. you can count the number of truly great maps on a single hand and almost all of them are in the last episode that released after D2.
>gameplay
now this is just bullshit. the fact that d1 has half as many enemies as D2 alone makes this untrue.
>b-but it's about how you use them!
no retard, there are only so many ways to arrange imps, pinkies and cacos before the experience becomes creatively bankrupt. D2 does much more with enemies and level design, helped by the fact that it has more assets to begin with

Just beat E2M6 in LOR. Not the hardest map I've played but god was it annoying compared to the rest of the levels, especially the part right after you get the blue key with the Revenants.
And now upon watching a video of someone playing it apparently the door after you pick up the RL and kill the Mancubi is unlocked way before the extra revenants and shocktroopers rape you, letting you get the Calamity Blade and deal with everything later. Goddamn.

Acceptable fps to like: Doom, Quake, Unreal, Duke, Blood, Shadow Warrior, Dark Forces, Marathon, Cybermage, Strife, Hexen, Heretic, Sin, Shogo

Unacceptable: Half Life, COD, Halo, Nu Doom, Nu Wolfenstein, Serious Sam, Goldeneye, Timesplitters, FEAR, Perfect Dark, Overwatch, Counter Strike, Battlefield, MOH

>>11194792
The other sprites were based on toys, but were touched up and are convincing enough that they're weapons. But the heat crossbow thing just looks like a cheap toy.

>>11194781
Yeah fuck Sandy, if only we had more based Romero levels with unavoidable damage floors, ammo starvation and random cyberdemons placed in choke points.

>>11194781
>carlos "sanderos" petersenero's presence is felt very strongly in 2
He does most of the maps in Doom 1 as well.

>>11194820
>if only we had more based Romero levels with unavoidable damage floors, ammo starvation and random cyberdemons placed in choke points.
This. Peak level design.
>>11194821
IIRC, a lot of those are based on Tom's work.

>>11194801
Sorry bud, but your opinions are shit. Not even worth a full reply.
>>11194820
This but unironically.

>>11194821
There's a reason I only ever play DOOM episodes 1 and 4. 2, 3, and DOOM 2 do not exist.

>>11194839
>no argument
stay mad midwit

>>11194845
You were filtered.

Wednesday night Whatever, come play some SRB2Kart!
REMINDER: SERVER UPDATED TO NEPTUNE 2.3, DON'T FORGET TO UPDATE YOUR CLIENT!

How to join (The short and easy way):
Download the All-in-one repack: https://mega.nz/file/N3kwhCDL#lRuLVeECG3pB_gJWhUZo1Zhp7agcBPYjhlR3ZJKf5n4
Extract it to its own folder (NOT the desktop or program files)
Run "SRB2Kart-Neptune (Connect to vrkart).bat" and wait for any missing files to download in-game
DO NOT run "srb2kart.exe" and expect to be able to join the server.
If you don't have a 64-bit machine/OS for whatever reason: Copy the contents of the 32-bit folder into the main folder

How to join (The longer and harder way):
Download version 1.6 of the game: https://github.com/STJr/Kart-Public/releases/download/v1.6/srb2kart-v16-Installer.exe
Get the custom client we use: https://github.com/NepDisk/srb2k-neptune/releases/tag/Neptune2.3
Get the mods: https://mega.nz/folder/MiUiESSa#CyovwTUnO9TSmqbwMI1xBg
Connect to 51.161.34.159 (either use connect in console or "specify ipv4 address" under Multiplayer)

>I HAVE TO BITCH FAST AND TEXT CHAT TOO SLOW
We also have a Mumble server!
Address: 51.161.34.159 (same as the game server)
Port: default
Password: endoom

>I heard this game supports proximity chat, are we using that?
No.

Pro tips: https://pastebin.com/YV6biqxq
(This is out of date and written for a different server, but it still has a lot of useful information.)

Recent changes:
Loudened Lee Carvallo

>>11193370
>bum tickley

every time.

>>11194792
They still draw pixel art over their pictures of toys, here the artist forgot to do that so you see the plastic lines on the grip for example.

Alright, the Arachnotron is done, and I deleted the revenant sprites and redid most of the obituaries to be mostly vanilla with the new names.

https://files.catbox.moe/yckbp5.zip

>>11194879
I love doomguy holding the chaingun at the receptionist

>>11194907
I like the blood dripping on the counter.

>>11194845
Based. I must say that Shores to Hell and early Doom 2 levels are alright as well. At least partially.
What are you thinking about Final Doom?

>>11194901
It's not that they forgot, it's that it was scrapped way before it got to that stage and nobody at Shitedive went to the effort to fix it up right.

>>11193370
YOU'RE MINCEMEAT

The re release really has ruined this general. I would have thought the /v/ shitposters would have tuckered themselves out and moved on by now.

>>11194972
This general always had dumb ppl desu. 2020 was a fucking wasteland

>>11193619
>>11193652
Let's see how these suit you.

>>11194972
>anyone that disagrees with me is /v/

>>11194906
Next, and last frankensprite, probably.

>>11194449
Yeah, me. Mostly e1 techbase stuff. E1M7 is my favorite map. I like all the windows that allow you to fight enemies in places you can visit later. I like secrets that allow the player to visit outdoor areas and see things from a different angle. I like heavy usage of low health hitscanners that make the regular shotgun and chaingun feel powerful.
I don't blame Sandy or anyone else for trying different things later on, through. Well, maybe Romero for not making enough Doom 2 maps.

>>11195067
If Romero made more Doom 2 maps, we might have seen a second Chasm, like how he copied Downtown for Industrial Zone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dP1IPnYHIU

>>11194861
Damn. I wanted to join, but I was too busy poopin'

>>11195069
I genuinely liked Industrial Zone. That one long lift is what ruins Downtown for me.
Maybe some people would see The Living End as a second Chasm, but I feel we got that in Legacy of Rust with MAP06.

>there are """people""" who actually prefer DOOM 2 over 1

>>11195109
cut down on the metamucil you son of a bitch

>>11194978
These are perfect, you are doing gods work anon, thank you for making those for me, for free even after I was asking about hiring someone to do those for me.

Here are the sprites you made in a wad that replaces the ssg sprites
https://files.catbox.moe/31acsd.wad

>>11195153
Happy to help. I've been there in the past years ago where I've been stuck with needing art and trying to find people to help.
It's why I ultimately just took matters into my own hands. You might find yourself doing the same one day.

>>11194978
Also I really like the reshading you did for the shadow of the hand under the wood, it looks way better than now than it did before.

I do got one more question, do you lurk here on the Doom thread / retro fps threads? I will have some future weapon sprite work similar to these, & if it is fine with you, i would like to see how your edits would look on some things I would like to have edited too, though I will save that stuff for a later time. Once again, thank you for making these sprites for me anon.

>there are """people""" who actually prefer Quake 1 over 2

>there are """people"""

>there """are"""

>>11195189
>I do got one more question, do you lurk here on the Doom thread / retro fps threads?
I'm here pretty much every day, Anon. I'll see if I can keep helping you in the future. But you gotta promise me: Whatever you're using all this for, don't you dare halfass it.

Played this game for the first time during the lockdowns back in 2020 with the BFG edition. Steam achievements say I beat it but I remember nothing from it. Decided to revisit by playing the original version this time. Uninstalled after 5 hours
>muhreen, do this, do that
>whispering demon noises
>enemies slowly teleport in, gotta play whack a mole with them
>weapons all feel like shit
>my health never dropped below 70, not even once (playing on veteran)

Thanks for reading my blog post.

>>11194686
This reminded me of the secret level in sunlust. When I beat it I looked up if someone else had trouble and it turned out I suck with calamity blade

>>11195250
>combined arms cow tools
lol, get in the kart server

>>11195217
What the fuck is quake?

>>11195264
I'm too lazy to try to compile it or futz about with it, that and I'm currently drawing a gun for Kustam. Inspiration struck me last night.

>>11195067
Gotta be honest, E1 is severely overrated and I can only imagine someone liking it the most because it's easy. The first map and the last are basically 30 second affairs with nothing substantial in them, leaving 6 in the middle that effectively function as the tutorial of the game. There's no challenge, even on UV, and you are fighting the same 3 enemies on every map the entire time. You don't even get the plasma or BFG. The maps themselves are largely mediocre. Map 3 is legitimately good, the rest are messy.
IMO, people who aren't very good at the game like this episode because it's a power trip for bad players, where the other episodes will punch you in the cock for making stupid mistakes. It's just easy, gratifying gameplay in largely flat, mundane grey environments. It offers nothing cerebral or thrilling. There's no "walking out and see a Cyberdemon for the first time" kind of moment. You never really feel in danger. You never need to stratrgize. It's sterile. People like to shit on Sandy but most of the maps in E2 are very solid and offer a much greater challenge.

>>11195264
knock that off hunnie bunchies, he's got a kustam to finish
>>11195268
>Inspiration struck me last night.
you're welcome

How do I add all the missing graphics from my new doom 1 + doom 2 that I completely, totally legit—- trust me—purchased?

>>11195252
Many share your sentiments.

>>11195272
Oh no, it was watching a friend play Warriors Orochi, playing as the smug womanizer guy who fought with a musket.

What if instead of a double barreled hand cannon, it's just a laser firing musket? Where the blunt metal melee attacks are him just smashing things with the rifle stock, and instead of a beam saber melee, it's a laser bayonet?

It'd all stay the same mechanically. It's just a rifle he swings around instead.

>>11195268
>working on Kustam
Fair.
>>11195272
>hunnie bunchies
Maybe if had a bowl you wouldn't spend so long poopin'

>>11195290
maybe i'll join the mumble but i won't play

>>11195250
I appreciate your help anon, also I use these edits just for myself, & playing random Doom wads are literally the only games I play anymore. I will get the mileage from your edits more than you would know. It always kind of bothered me why the default Doom 2 ssg pickup sprite shows a Wood stock that goes up all the way to the 2 barrels, but when Doomguy is holding it, the ssg stock is a metal/synthetic material instead of wood. I saw that the recent Doom beta content shown in the id vault & it showed the full ssg stock, & it does show that there is a wood stock, though it is cut off the screen so you cannot see it. Also I honestly prefer the edited sprite I had because I think it looks better than the base Doom 2 sprite, & now that you did those edits to the sprites, there are no longer any problems I notice when I see them while I play. I will be using the new ssg sprites you made for me until I'm an old man & unable to use my hands on the keyboard.

>>11195287
If I had a robot OC, he would have a retractable cannon installed in his crotch region and blast fucking 50mm shells out of his fucking cock.

>>11195271
What I like about E1 is not the difficulty, but rather the experience. How the environments are built. It's simple things like looking outside and thinking "I'd like to go there". Why is this a lot less common after episode 1? It feels like a lot of exploration potential gone to waste. I don't see why you couldn't have difficult maps that also feature these things.
In terms of combat itself, heavy focus on hitcanners and other low health enemies can be challenging as well. A good example, and a map I like a lot, is TNT's Stronghold.
I think Doom's enemy roster would benefit from a fast running hitscanner. Something like officers from Wolf3D. Maybe with a super shotgun. Dangerous if you don't see them coming and you're low on health.

The recent Doom 1 vs Doom 2 posts are giving me some good ideas desu.

>megawad built to have the best of both games: Doom's exploration and atmosphere meets Doom 2's action and bestiary
>simple, no-nonsense maps that let you get out there
>incidental combat, hard-hitting traps, all that good stuff
>detail isn't non-existent just tasteful
>perhaps use dehextra to add new decoration sprites
>focus on abstract but kinda realistic locations

It's very barebones, but I think I can pull it off. Maybe in October, maybe as a community thing. I've not led any projects yet but I'm willing to try for you fine gentlemen desu.

>>11193809
more ai slop to get shmuck investor money

>>11195485
I would play this, the more limited enemy roster is the main reason I have not bothered to play Doom 1.

>>11195502
Try Return to Hadron, anon. It's got some of the best Doom 1 mapping has to offer IMO.

As for the idea, it'd be a good way to make go back to basics. Nowadays I can't just make a plain hallway, I gotta add light gradients, a chewed up wall, a breaker box, etc. All nice things, yes, but they take time away from the gameplay and eat up my time desu.

I was playing Return to Castle Wolfenstein for the first time back in 2021 and uh why was BEN AFFLECK in RTCW???

>>11194449
D1 level design was obviously superior to D2. D2 base game was utter dogshit, what makes D2 so great are the mods anyway.

Something about the player's presence in Quake feels "big." I dunno how to put it. Like there isn't much room to squeeze in many enemies in an area, or to have details and passages too intricate or narrow. Everything just feels slightly out of scale. I've played a few remakes of Doom levels and it always feels like I'm close to brushing my head on the ceiling. Anyone else feel this?

>>11195485
>Doom's exploration and atmosphere meets Doom 2's action and bestiary
>detail isn't non-existent just tasteful
>focus on abstract but kinda realistic locations

TNT the way /vr/ would have

activate semen meter

>>11195513
They're both perfectly adequate. I think of them as the baseline against all other wads should be held up against, they have good and bad in about the same way. I have fun with both, it's just their strengths are different.

>>11195519
Not a bad idea. I'd say TNT's better maps one-up Doom 2's and I enjoyed it about as much as Plutonia, it's just you know.

Shit like Dead Zone, Habitat, Administration Center and Lunar Mining Project. Drags the mood down pretty bad.

>>11195518
Because everything is 20% taller visually in Doom. Look at the pixels on textures and you'll see that they're stretched vertically.

>>11194861
ggs
i gotta remember to vote randommod next time

>>11195609
that's how you goofy niggas look playing on hard speed. we smoking nitro fuel on expert now

>>11194861
ggs, maybe someday ill manage fix my toaster problems

>>11195616
>expert
Oh right, I forgot that difficulty exist. If we're gonna embarass ourselves, might as well do it on the highest speed possible.

>>11195630
does finland have an embargo on all imported electronics or something because damn

>play doom a few times >Finally play buy the pack on Steam and play DOOM and DOOM 2 >boot up DOOM 64 >too scary >close

I finally understand DOOM 3 more

I'm finally coming back home to Doom. It's been half a decade at least. I'll be a monkee uncus if BURL TUMD.pk3 isn't the best action shit I've ever felt. I accidently only Doom 2 and not 1 in my youth, so I'm playing Doom 1 first time.
>this webm
Totally baited by the quick flicker of white wall on the other side of the flickering light room; Shat myself when monsters dropped.

Where can I find the sprites for the green head character in this picture? Is him... The Mask??

>>11195647
nah just my bad habit using free or almost free computers ,but this time it was just purely just linux acting up some reason

>>11195673
>free or almost free computers
I'm cackling at the thought of anons playing srb2kart using public library computers and constantly checking over their shoulders to make sure nobody is looking

>deck is called "It's Broken"
>game randomly crashes at least twice per map ever since I started using this deck

>>11195663
http://51.161.34.159/repo/vrskins_v4.1.1.pk3
Look for the Anonymous skin in this pk3, it should be labeled as such

>>11195661
Burl Tumd is pretty damn good actually.

>>11194449
I generally like 2, but I can see why.
The pacing in 2 is kinda all over the place, with some levels being kinda short, and some that overstay their welcome, and plenty where theres an overall lack in polish. No consistency to theming, either.
Music is also a step down from 1. Most songs are still generally good, with D_MESSAG probably being my fave midi out of both games, but where 1 had plenty of moody tracks that added to the semi-horror atmosphere, Doom 2 decided to go in a more blues direction with mixed results. D_COUNTD and D_THE_DA are genuinely so boring, that they effectively make a map feel worse to play.

>>11195703
I still consider it to be one of the best gameplay mods. Its DNA is still in some of my mods to this day.

>>11195536
>lumping Dead Zone with the others

>>11195702
thanks friend

>>11194449
I like a lot of Doom 1's visual design and atmosphere, even if its gameplay is comparatively plain compared to Doom 2's.

Doom 2 has a lot of good level design, really excellent level design, but it also has some which is pretty middling, and some which just weak. For instance, Sandy's best Doom map is Tricks & Traps, but his worst is also The Factory, which just isn't any fun for me at all. Some people hate The Chasm, but I love it.

For Doom 1, I feel that E1 is somewhat overrated. It's very solid and well crafted as an introduction to first person shooters, which is what it was, but while I enjoy it the gameplay isn't anything really special either (compare to Doom 2's The Living End, one of Romero's finest maps). E2 does a lot to make the game more interesting by providing much more varied visuals and further monster variety, and the whole corrupted techbase thing is just fantastic to me, I love the visuals and atmosphere.

By E3, the game does suffer a bit from the lack of variety, the Barons are a bit too tough to be used as often as they are. Doom 2 solves so much of this by adding a lot of really good new monsters which add TONS of variety to the gameplay.

>>11195714
I think that Doom 2 being one single long 30(32) map marathon was a mistake. Dividing the levels up into episodes would have helped a lot with the pacing, letting them reset the player's inventory and then also resetting the difficulty curve somewhat. Like the player not always having the SSG for instance.

I get they were somewhat strapped for time and may not have had the option to make intermission maps, which would have been extremely cool for that, but even if they had just gone Thy Flesh Consumed with it and used a plain art intermission screen, it'd still have worked and been an improvement.

>>11194480
I like episodes 2 and 3 because I can berserk punch everything. I would say that E2 is about as good as E1.
I don't like Ultimate/E4 though.

tried a bit of LOR, didnt like it. felt too slaughtermap-y, which really isnt my thing.
i still appreciate it because it blessed us with good vanilla-style flamethrower sprites, and the heatwave generator is pretty cool.

>>11194449
As it should be.

>>11195754
>felt too slaughtermap-y
I only felt that in the final two maps of E2.

>>11194289
Those two are some of my favorites, but personally I'd rate GD a bit higher than AA. The secret levels in the latter suck so much ass, so it only has 30 11/10 maps.. compared to Going Down's perfect 32.

>>11193651
>Unrattled 64

>>11195787
I wouldn't mind an unrattled phase 2 desu, it was cute

>>11194949
COME ON BOY

>>11195506
Is that revenant cumming green flames?

https://youtu.be/jHS1RJREG2Q?si=YLqu6rqmRE31_Nwa

>>11195882
mods? /k/ommando girls are cute

Hey look I found a cancelled /vr/ project while trudging through the archives
https://desuarchive.org/vr/thread/2806987/#2811741
No clear end date, just kinda shriveled up. Interesting history I suppose

>>11195485
>exploration
>in 2024
lol good luck.
I would make a map or two.

Doom 2 in Doom 1 only

Is 94 Protons still a thing or...

>>11195980
When 94p comes out, our lord and savior Jesus Christ will descend from the heavens to judge the righteous people.
Chop is just trying to prevent the apocalypse.

>>11195947
I mean Containment Area sucks to max so I can see the uvmaxxers spedrunner crowd bitching but I kinda don't see them as people so much as meatbags trained to be really good at Doom. Like hamsters on a wheel desu.

I'll flesh the idea out when my big map is finished and I had some time to rest. Man am I tired of looking at Doombuilder, Slade and Whacked. Takes at least 55 minutes to clear it.

I'm not that much of a mapper, but somehow it didn't occur to me that I should balance them with speedrunning in mind. I usually balance them around playing carefully, counting every shot and paying attention to every threat. At least on UV. In my mind, if you midlessly run around you should find yourself surrounded, low on resources and probably killed by hitscanners.
Could that be wrong mindset when mapping for Doom? Should I assume players are going to throw themselves into enemies and think what to do afterwards?

>>11196083
Expecting brainpower is a perfectly fine way to map, it'll just get you a lot of salty reviews from tards who don't have any and can't figure out how to turn the difficulty down.

>>11196083
You should never bend the knee to speedrunner, uvmaxxers and other assorted fags.
Make the map you want to make.

Any good mapsets that lean into horror or dark atmosphere?

>>11194474
I have no idea what I'm doing but I'm having fun, I'm sure it'd feel right at home in a ghetto 90s wad.
>>11194483
Isn't a chaingunning map just a map with a bunch of pain elemental/lost soul? I hate those.
>>11194510
I ended up going for the techbase but I added some slime and berserk pinkie punching action for you.

If you are able to get through your map with barely enough resources to get by, there probably isn't enough. Most people won't know the optimal routes, won't know where any hidden extra resources are, and won't know where surprises and ambushes will be, unlike you, the designer. I once made a segment of a map where it was intended for you to run from and some people hated it, they tried to kill all the hell knights that appeared instead of running.

Designing maps around aiding/harming speedrunning is kind of dumb. Cool shortcuts and routes are nice when they just happen and not when they're Metroid Fusion/Zero Mission style "oh shoot this wall here with a super missile and you can take this hidden tunnel whose only purpose is to let you get to the boss room faster." Though its your map so if you want to design elements that help or hinder speedrunners then go nuts. It may or may not go as planned!

>>11196083
What >>11196096 said. Never bend the knee to speedrunners, or really anyone else. Feedback is good and important but you shouldn't completely change your vision for a map because someone recorded a demo and thought it was a slog to max.

Speedrunners are the Doom community's e-sports players. Don't listen to their takes or you're gonna be making extremely optimized levels that are only ever played in one way and have no wortwhile secrets or exploration.

Casual UV maxing is where it's at.

IMO, while UV Max should be possible, I don't think a map absolutely needs to be designed in a way that makes it easy enough to accomplish simply through playing normally in order to be good. One of my favourite kinds of nonlinear exploration maps are the ones where there's multiple different options for reaching/unlocking the exit (or exits in case of a secret exit), sometimes even allowing for you to skip a key or two depending on which option you take. UV maxing these kinds of maps isn't necessarilly always fun, especially the big ones when playing blind, but they generally aren't made with that playstyle in mind to begin with.

>>11196132
UV-Max should always be possible. Whether or not it requires secrets is another matter.

Fun fact, Boom's/MBF21's ceiling and floor light transfer specials are in fact susceptible to rogue 0, ergo if you forget to assign a tag number to those actions they are gonna apply themselves to the entire level.

>>11196135
I like putting monsters in secrets.

>>11196132
UV Maxing is something you do on revisiting maps, literally because you are that much into exploration. Just like speedrunning, which you do for the additional challenge, but no map should be made with speedrunning in mind, because at that point your speedrunning just becomes a normal run.
Anyone who expects to be able to uvmax a map first try is either very good at exploration or a faggot who expects every level to be a topological corridor.

>>11196089
>>11196096
>>11196110
I see. I don't really have a problem with speedrunners, I simply usually don't think about them. And I'm fine with completionists, I won't lock anyone out of their sweet %100 stats, assuming they know how to look for secrets.
For the record, this is how I like to balance difficulties:
ITYTD: Players are slow, won't even avoid damage and can't priorize targets. There should be enough health and armor for them to tank everything, and maybe invulnerability spheres for them to deal with heavier enemies, if they're present.
HMP: players will mostly mindlessly run around, probably ignoring many enemies except for those right in front of them. There should be just enough enemies and resources for them to stay alive and keep doing that.
UV: Players know how to fight, and can take advantage of the general layout. They shouldn't be full of ammo but they still can have some spare in their inventory in case something goes wrong, even if they don't know any secrets. Although they won't mindlessly run around, they can still be tricked and fall into traps, but they can survive those.
UV+ (fast monsters + MP spawns): Players know the layout or can quickly learn it (knowing secrets is not required). Resources are very limited but they can make use of infighting or melee weapons (if chainsaw or berserk are available). They know how to deal with traps.

>try doom retro
>actually love how it looks compared to woof (I love dithering)
>no settings menu
:(

>>11196159
I would like to add here that any map should be beatable perfectly fine without secrets.
Secrets are there to reward exploration, not to provide necessary gear (e.g. expecting the player to find a secret berserk).

>>11196173
True, mandatory secrets generally are not good. Unless maybe it's a stylistic/storytelling approach, but then you need convey or otherwise give the player a hint.

Wolfenstein 3D does that, in Episode 2, the first or second level comes to a stop where you really figure there would be a door, but there isn't, instead it's a pushwall, which is supposed to convey a sort of "hidden secret base" kind of deal. It's pretty heavily telegraphed, which is why it works.

>>11194713
It's just a grey mess. You can't tell shit apart. Virtually all it needs is just some small color patches here and there. Some details that would actually define the weapon so you could tell the hell is you holding.
tl;dr COLORS

>>11194726
>>11194735
>>11194792
Just for clarification, the Calamity Blade weapon sprites are not actually original old iD Software assets. What they did is to track down one of those old Creatoy Roarguns, which is what the BFG (and numerous wall textures) were originally based on, and then digitized that to try to create sprites with a similar style and aesthetic.

Admirable in a way, and it almost has the right look, but the obvious glaring seams do not do the sprites any favors. That those wings are actually pistolgrips also is obvious at a glance, with the fingersteps and the trigger guards and all.

>>11194797
Well, if you look closely at the original shotgun, you can see the little black screwholes where the screws holding the two halves of the plastic body of the gun sit, but that IS harder to spot than the shortcomings on the Calamity Blade.

>>11193402
Remove the Evil Marine enemies.

>>11196228
What happens to the Mr. X level?

>>11196229
Five. Hundred. Archviles.

>>11196231
Oh no!

>>11196231
I have never experienced such a danger.

>>11196264
The burning, do you feel it? It is as though I was spawn camping my whole life and suddenly had to run.

Any Immortal Lock chads here? I don't really play quake much, what's the advice on the difficulty setting? I played a bit on nightmare and it seems manageable for now...

I LIVE... AGAIN

>>11196187
The arms being pistol grips was very obvious just by looking at it.

>>11196187
Do the toys used to make the Doom sprites have some collector's price slapped on them now?

>>11196373
Yes.

>>11196160
Menus are the worst part of every port. Console with a wiki page that lists all the commands unironically is more usable to me.

Blake Stone:

Aliens of Gold
VS
Planet Strike

Discuss.

>>11196295
I've only played some of it so far. The other Quoth maps I've played had a good time trying to fuck me in plenty of ways. If you're not familiar with the mod and don't play Quake much, you're probably safer with hard.

>>11196427
Planet Strike is a decent bit better between the two of them, but both are plagued by some terrible decisions that result in being far worse games than Wolf3D despite their additions.

>>11196373
Somewhat, many toys are collectible just by themselves, and for some toy collectors, a toy doesn't even have to be anything particularly notable or part of a famous line, the toy can just plain be a good example of a certain type of toy.

A lot like collecting real guns in that sense (or collecting anything else, really).

>>11196478
I guess what I'm saying is that a toy can easily have some value just because it's a toy of a certain time period.

This one G.I Joe with the gun used to make Doom's Rocket Launcher was valued somewhere between $80 to $120 on auction sites depending on condition when I looked, and if it had its packaging and so on.
G.I Joe is also still a recognizable brand which people do collect, and these big 12" dolls I think were a bit of a premium toy back in their day, so they probably retain a lot of intrinsic value from that too.

>>11196427
Planet Strike took a giant shit on the original art style so I can't in sane conscience say it's better even if the gameplay might be improved
Needs more pulp sci-fi shooters

>>11196427
In which one do you kill mexican-looking people? That one is probably better.

>>11196139
That's fun. If I made maps I'd have the occasional single zombieman hanging around in a secret.

I have become obsessed with doing pistol starts with no saves between levels.

Plutonia is kicking my ass.

>>11196971
Nice keep it up man

>>11196971
I keep getting the urge to do that. This whole stupid "you didn't beat the game" mentality if I play it in the back of my head otherwise. I know you're meant to work up to this level of skill, but holy shit does it feel good to pistol start single segment a map and manage to kill everything.

Thankfully, I take breaks from it too and just go nuts on some wads playing continuously with saves for a bit of a laugh and a breather.

Do the heads of the shock troopers collide with enemies?

>>11197001
The rocket guys look like Kane in Tiberium Sun.

>doom 3 audio log talking about humans being descendant from the Mars aliens that tpd away from Mars to escape from hell
Why the fuck did they revert to cavemen tech wise then

No save + pistol start playthroughs and save playthroughs are both valid, you should be doing both honestly.

Your first playthrough of a WAD you should quicksave like normal, but after you beat the WAD once or twice I think a pistol start playthrough is more fun since you have already played the WAD before, its like playing new game honestly.

>>11196971
I ruined my first Eviternity 2 playthough doing that
The secret levels only give you the based secret weapon at the very end of them

>>11196971
Me, except I go "I wanna melee at least half of the map, hopefully there's a berserker kit or it would take too long".
It all grown from wanting to conserve the ammo...

>>11197036
Dunno. Didn't they continue that lore in nuDoom?
I haven't paid attention.

>>11197040
Words of wisdom.
Play a wad for fun and to get to know the maps using saves, then come back later ready to challenge yourself.

>>11197057
no lol, doom 3 didn't happen in that timeline like 1, 2 and 64 did. there's just a few nods like the soul cube
>>11197036
oh so it's like what they did with the forerunners in halo, except i think halo's was done better because it answers that question

simulation

>>11197065
Man I forgot that Tiberiumsoul had died, we've lost a fair few people in the last year or two.

>>11197065
A lot of people in the Doom community die young for some reason.

It is the year 2060. Bethesda has remastered Doom for the fourteenth time. They still haven't added mouselook.

>>11197065
I audibly said "you can't fuck around like this Mace" when I saw that, but it really does seem like the Sneed was no joke.

>>11197076
Can't exactly talk much but in the one photo I saw of the dude's hand, he was definitely very overweight. We weren't friends or anything but I still feel kinda bad about him.

>>11197065
Mod?

Motherfucker

>>11196187
Oh I just got it
The BFG is the front half of the raygun mirrored, the CB is the back half of the raygun mirrored

>>11197126
>casually clips into the floor before pouncing

>>11197126
>mine cancelled his 'roar' with a 'sniff' sound before pouncing
That imp and the scientist near the tablets were the only 'kinda got me' moments in recent runs.

been crafting an underground dungeon type area whaddya goys think??

>>11197126
>take 1 (one) point of damage to your health
>jerks your view all the way to the ceiling
Doom 3 is silly.

>>11197138
Just finished Doom 3, the audio design made me play the whole game w a slightly clenched stomach, it's so fucking good and creepy with EAX, but yeah, gonna start RoE tomorrow, hear it's much more action focused and you get a op double barrel shotgun

>>11197149
Looks pretty underground to me.

>>11197153
It does look like the kind of place you'd find a Womble.

>>11197149
Looks more like an above-ground dungeon to me.

>>11197149
needs more cages

>>11197036
We discovered tobacco and alcohol when we moved to earth.

>>11197126
Crafty goddamn murder mutants.

>>11197236
With sector toilets I hope?
>Chopblock's past glory days
>Will they ever be surpassed?

>>11197063
>no lol, doom 3 didn't happen in that timeline like 1, 2 and 64 did.
Yeah. Technically, older DOOM games didn't happen in newer timeline either. After DOOM 64 and its Lost Levels, Doomguy was thrown from Hell into a different timeline with Sentinel shit and its own Earth where Eternal was its variation of DOOM 2.

>>11197150
>>take 1 (one) point of damage to your health
There was 7 to the armor in that lunge, too
>>11197151
Good job, also cozy credits PDA

>>11197247
Talk about a fall from grace
I HAD TO FALL TO LOSE IT ALL
BUT IN THE END IT DOESN'T EVEN MATTER

>>11197249
That's why I specified to your health, 8 damage is also still barely a love tap.

>>11197251
>>11197247
New Ad Mortem plasma gun was pretty damn visceral though

>>11197247
>>11197251
What does Cockblock even do these days?

>>11197248
Right, it's like a multiverse or something. I should have said that 3 doesn't have any explicit connections like how the slayer is the same guy from the old games. The soul cube is present, but we don't know the significance of it afaik

>>11197260
It is, but it also took a year to make (there were screenshots posted during phase 2)
>>11197261
Posts on doomworld like once a week

>>11196083
The only thing you should worry in regards to UVMaxxing is making sure that every monster is killable and that secrets don't require you to try something crazy that only works like every other 15 tries or something.

>>11197261
Still working on Protons, I think.

>>11197258
>That's why I specified to your health
Yeup, and I'd agree its annoying if it wasn't for the armor. That's why I mentioned it.
I also thought vanilla D3 armor absorbs 20%-30% depending on difficulty. Maybe that Enhanced Edition mod changes things?

>That fucking midi
Also, I'd normally say leaving the moon by balancing on the top of the rocket leaving it was retarded, but this is Doomguy and he's survived worse.

bros we're a hot topic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBdDt4BUIW0

>>11197342
Yah it happens at least once a year. Myhouse unfortunately got undertale'd last year, we had tons of eyes on us back then too

>>11197356
>hanging out with a friend
>doom somehow gets brought up
>talk about the source port I like to use cause I'm autistic
>"yooo do you know about myhouse.wad??"

>>11197367
and then their main takeaway is "duh... 3d floors in doom? how????" while completely ignoring literally everything else about it. It's like saying house of leaves is good because it has words turned upside down sometimes

>>11197375
The "bro, this is the DOOM engine, this is mindblowing" shit in general really irks me

>>11197356
Still better than the yearly
>Guys, someone made a huge map in Doom/Quake!!!
And it's a really underwhelming example of something that's done all the time. Like The Immortal Lock recently, or Foursite almost a decade back.

I feel like anyone could make a spOoOoky liminal space ARG type WAD and people would eat it up, especially people who don't play doom and just watch youtubers play it. Probably an easy way to snag a Cacoward too

>>11197416
There's like 6, the distinguishing factor here is myhouse is actually good

>>11197356
Was there anything big in between Brutal Doom and Myhouse.wad? Only RTX thing comes to my mind, but that wasn't that big.

>>11197425
Hedon?

>>11197416
I wish some of the total conversions like Inquisitor or Countrycide would get more popular, it'd be at least be different from le spooky liminal maps.

>>11197425
Instadoom was responsible for doomworld's all-time high amount of users in 2015. This is still preserved at the bottom of the home page.

Doom wads for this feel?

>>11197432
Can't say about inquisitor, but countricide would first need to be good

>>11197448
whenever people here say "X mod should have more attention" it's guaranteed to be the most mediocre shit imaginable

>>11197457
Big fantasy adventure TCs like Inquisitor and Cult Of Despair are peak kino

>>11197448
Yeah, but but most people don't have good taste; I was thinking more of what total conversion could actually get 'popular', since there doesn't seem to be any and Countrycide is at least mediocre and not terrible, which perfect for people who don't play Doom a lot. Then again that's probably bad too, I'm just sick of the liminal space bullshit and want something different to get focused on I guess.

>>11197416
Yes hello. This is me. Control put an egg in my brain and I LOVE brutalist liminal space bullshit, preferably paired with the faceless corporate goon aesthetic.

>>11197464
didn't play inquisitor but cult of despair ripped assets from so many sources that it felt like the modding equivalent of a fanfiction that incorporates the author's favorite cartoon characters. i'm really not a fan of these "TCs" that aren't actually TCs, like that touhou doom mod on zdoom that brands itself as a TC despite having 0 originality

>>11197442
Thelokk's nameless wad if you can stomach trans angst being where it grew from. It's actually pretty bleak and i don't vibe with that shit, but it did strike a pretty terrifying vibe from time to time.

The Parasite of Good Will is more your speed, I think.

>>11197442
Lilith.pk3?

>>11197471
The why not mention ashes, an actually good series of doom TCs?

>>11197475
creepy liminal space ARG stuff guilty pleasure of mine honestly, but that wont stop me from shitposting about it
>>11197486
ill check those out thank you
>>11197491
isnt lilith just a graphical mod? im looking for creepypasta cringekino where the game is alive an wants to kill me irl. AAAAH!!!

>>11197505
lilith abuses a bunch of glitches in ZDoom to create a creepy mapset, the story is more interpretive than the "hyper realistic sonic blood eyes" creepypasta you were asking for (I wasn't familiar with the thing you're referencing, I just thought you meant meta-creepiness in general)