/vr/ - Retro Games

>>11029718
Nintendo games are casual anyway so I don't care how someone plays them.

You're only allowed to rewind at this part.

>>11029718
Yes. It's a single player game. Let people enjoy it however they want.
t. someone who doesn't even rewind or use SS's

>>11029724
>>11029747
Unironically a Reddit answer

>>11029718
Grow up.

>>11029718
Yes, you are entirely unreasonable. You simply should not care at all about how anyone consumes entertainment media. Spending your limited time on Earth being angry about how other people play video games is utterly, utterly insane.

It's not like they beat the game, who cares

>>11029718
i only do the save states if the game won't let me save and I have to sleep. I'm not afraid to fail a level

>>11029718
No, but it's 100% Nintendo's fault for allowing it. You shouldn't blame the players for being losers. It's the game's job to enforce its own rules, not the player's.

It's different on independent, non-commercial emulators though - with those, adding extra features such as rewinding is generally a good thing, since they are general-purpose tools and it's naturally understood with them that the emulation software's only job is to provide a platform for running some other software, not specifically to be an entertainment tool, and that a person wanting authenticity is already sacrificing some by emulating in the first place, and must therefore be willing to do a little bit of extra work to restore it (for example, by deliberately ignoring cheat-type features added by the emulator).

But a Nintendo game emulated by Nintendo software on Nintendo hardware and sold for money under its original name is presenting itself AS the original game, and so it is obliged to be authentic by default. If game-breaking extra features are added then their use must be disincentivized a little somehow, and the option to use them must be kept unobtrusive and "opt-in".

>>11029718
Never noticed Banjo covers his eyes when they run fast. Neat.

>>11029718
Makes me butthurt too.

The reason why I think it's bad is not because of "you didn't beat it" mentality, but I think because it's reinforcing bad habits for up and coming gamers that will manifest to incredible impatience when they play certain modern games. It teaches bad habits, and this in turn will need to be accommodated by future developers that will change modern gaming more for people like this. I guess it's similar to how more people are viewing content in short form videos and how this will affect media consumption down the line.

>>11029745
I did that first try, what's the problem?

is it wrong to play JRPG's at 2x speed? I do that sometimes, especially ps1 games because of long loads and animations

>>11030239
I think if a game is not worth playing at normal speed then it's not worth playing at all.

>>11030185
The problem is mainly the shitty depth perceptions on the fish's air bubbles that make it a pain to know whether or not you'll be swimming into them. You can also do it without any extra air, but you pretty much need to swim down, go through the key once, then swim back up immediately.

>>11029718
>Am I unreasonable for feeling this way?

Maybe take some time to seriously ask yourself what gives you the impulse to want to police how strangers you will never meet play video games in the first place. Then delve into why you would feel the need to ask others if that seems like a reasonable use of your time and energy.

>>11030365
Because it creates a culture of negative habits which can negatively impact both future creations as well as discussions with how people discuss the older media.

>>11029718
You're unreasonable for watching video games instead of playing them.

>>11030365
>>11029747
>>11029787
>>11029819
>>11029827
You sound defensive. Like a person who knows that by rewinding, they are doing something wrong. Cheating, in fact. But you don't want to admit it or be called out on the cheating, so you attack and misdirect the person who points out your bullshit.

Basically whenever you fail something and rewind to avoid the consequences, it makes you mentally squirm because you're subconsciously aware that you didn't earn this. Normally you can ignore this feeling and move on, but if other people are pointing it out then your only option left to save your ego is to pretend that save-stating scummishly isn't wrong.(which no one buys)

For the record, it's perfectly fine to abuse save-states if you really want to. But let's call a spade a spade. You ARE cheating yourself and ruining your own experience for the sake of lazy convenience. And if ruining your OWN game experience is something YOU want to do, again, fine. But it is a deeply shameful and cringe thing to do, and this mentality of prioritizing convenience above all other things is deeply poisonous, it is an attitude which festers over time if left unchecked. God forbid a game actually have penalties for failure (which are a 100% necessary component for learning and growth)

>>11030492
Im completing more games than you thanks to rewind. While you are struggling doing boring repetitions im already on the next game

>>11030365
This is advice. You will have greater difficulty having meaningful conversations about the games you enjoy if you're fundamentally changing the gameplay experience from everyone else. The only people wasting their time are the ones changing the game, playing through that version, and then trying to talk about it as if they played the same game as everyone else.

>>11030492
get a job lil bro

>>11030492
no one will pat you on the back for not using rewind, anon. Only if you're a jewtuber or a streamer.
And coercing others into feeling bad about how they play their kiddy games is kinda pathetic.
I agree with the sentiment in general. Games should be played the way they are, but it's entirely subjective if using save states or rewind is ruining their experience. Save states are fine for you, many others will shit on you for using them, using the same arguments as you.

>>11030841
nta as I'm sure you know gameplay is determined by the game rules, the issue is how others interpret "their experience" as superior after negating game rules and how they are effectively playing a completely different game as a result.

>>11029718
idk, it doesn't really upset me when others do it, but i definitely would have more respect for the person who completes the game legit.

i usually don't care enough to cheat/rewind or whatever if i get filtered by a hard part in a game, but there may be a few rare exceptions. i prefer to do it the way the developers intended, but i also am able to still enjoy games that i don't beat and usually have more respect for them. so going and cheating to beat those kind of cheapens the experience for me.

>>11030702
Simple as.

>>11030702
>trying to talk about it as if they played the same game as everyone else
Except most people play retro games with savestates now. So it is in fact you how is growing increasingly out of touch from how everyone else experiences the game. So according to your own argument, you should start using savestates to fit in.
>inb4 argument changes because it's not about the argument it's about not wanting to use savestates
Hey I'm not forcing you to use them. But you will never have the intended experience of some 80s game because you're not in the 80s. I can replay a game from my childhood but I will now play it completely differently, the way I play this old game has now been influenced by every game I've played since. Why pretend

>>11030492
He's right.
The problem isn't cheating by itself. Cheat codes used to be part of old games, more so than newer games.

The problem is the mentality of people telling to themselves it's not cheating; and corporations cattering to these people by calling these things "QoL features that fix the old bad game design" so that they won't come crying a river on twitter and leave bad reviews on steam because the game dared to call them a cheater when they use a cheat.

When I use a cheat code, I know I'm cheating. Get over it.

>>11029724
I can tell already your a Segapede

>>11031068
I don't play retro games to fit in because I don't believe in accumulating fake social accreditation from following fads and wearing brands as your identity. If you can't play retro games as they were, you absolutely should stop pretending and play modern games instead. You won't though, apathy is fashionable.

You concede to the fact these games were played in a specific manner before, then assert how we should change how these games are discussed because of prevailing attitudes which I characterize as apathy and laziness towards content consumption, attitudes which I assert as being cancerous to the culture of retro gaming in general. "Why" indeed.

Any time I use cheat codes or do shit like this I get bored and stop playing within 20 minutes, we joke about how it's NOT HONORABLE and shit but it is really just a practical issue with entertainment value

>>11031095
>...and corporations cattering to these people by calling these things "QoL features that fix the old bad game design"

God I loath it. The world has become mad.

>>11031710
The worst part is how QoL nerfing has been around long enough for gamers to have been born and raised playing on HDTVs and "watch the game play itself" mode.

I played the 360 port did I beat the game?

>>11029724
fpbp

>>11030492
I never said it wasn't cheating you fucking schizoid. I said if they want to play their single player games that way, then no one should judge them for it. Let them cheat. It's only a problem if you're playing multiplayer games.

>>11030492
I agree for the most part, but I disagree that, by using save states, you're always having a worse experience, since I do believe that sometimes it can actually improve it, it's just not too common for that to be the case, that's all. It's better to go and cheat than to just flat out quit a video game I think, experiencing it "wrong" or "poorly" is way better than not experiencing it at all I suppose.

You could ask: "If you don't enjoy it, why force it with save states instead of quitting?" and that's a fair question, but to me the answer is simple... I want to play it, even if I have a few issues with it.

Well videogames have been normiefied so bad that your average gamer really gets pissy at literally any amount of difficulty in a videogame

>>11032563
Yeah. What's the deal with that? Shit's weird as fuck.

>>11029724
FPBP

>>11029718
>Am I unreasonable for feeling this way?
It might seem reasonable to let people customize their experience they way they like because its a free country but after you discover how it utterly rapes gaming discourse and community I absolutely hate zoomer rewind/save state features in games. If you don't have the same experience as someone else then you played a different game and should not be able to discuss.

Remakes destroy discussion of all originals because now here come the newfuckers talking about how great the new version is compared to the original which they didnt play. The more people you let into the discourse the worse it gets until its just a fetid pool of trash.

>>11030492
you'd be correct and based if the topic wasnt children's video games
who cares lmao
BRO U USED A DILDO U DIDNT JACK OFF YOUR OWN DICK WITH YOUR OWN HAND IT DIDNT COUNT

why are you watching him fap in the first place?

Wildly popular game in its day, 10/10, bestseller, Killer App, GOTY
>the year it came out starts with a 1? It didnt age well actually and was probably never good to begin with
>ew its so clunky, fix the controls
>ugh its so boring, let me speed it up
>why is it so cheap and unfair, it just designed to eat quarters, im going to save state
>its so old looking, upscale it, smooth the pixels, add bloom, 4k textures
>eh, game still sucks, this made boomers shit and piss their pants, etc. remakes better, fanmod is better, discord version is more fun.

It is hard for me to imagine myself caring about how someone else plays a 1p game. I judge you for watching others play video games. I think it is only justifiable with competitive match games like SSBM or Starcraft and even then it's still a waste of time even if you aspire to greatness in these things, which is the best case scenario result of watching them. Video games should be played for relaxation and then ignored the other 95% of your life.

If you try to give your thoughts on a game and admit you had to rely on savestates and rewinds and shit everything you say should be immediately discarded and ridiculed.
You did not, for a fact, beat the damn game. You gave yourself easy shortcuts to bypass a game's design, good or bad, and thus cheated yourself from truly getting into the designer's head, or experiencing first-hand the frustration/challenge of a hard level or boss.

>>11032480
The issue is when single players are discussing a different experience of the same game.

>>11032671
fair but the game is probably more fun if you let the game challenge you and don't read the guide (unless it's complete bullshit difficulty)

>>11032627
this is the end result of not gatekeeping.
gatekeep your hobbies strictly or they will go to shit.

>>11029745
Completely wrong. You're actually allowed to rewind, save state, cheat, whatever, in any part of the game... EXCEPT the very one you posted, which should be beat in all fairness.

>>11029782
Dude, I basically created Reddit, and I don't even understand what's your point.

>>11032714
that's only an "issue" if you're retarded.

Rewind is the gayest shit ever. Ruins the perception of a game for future generations.

>>11032916
literally who fucking cares lol

>>11029718
>Am I unreasonable for feeling this way?
yes, why are you watching zoomers play games?wtf?

>>11032916
rewind is based if only for being the shiniest turd in a sea of diarrhea. good games aren't made anymore. then again, you might have a point since more retards have been introduced to good games through it, albeit with a cuckold lens. who knows, im tired.

>>11030445
>>11031095
These are correct reasons to hate those that abuse rewind features

>>11032886
I'm sorry you're retarded.

>>11029724
Yet you are unable to beat a single one. Curious. How old were you when you were diagnosed?

>>11033015
Speak for yourself much

>>11032997

Do you consider it cheating to shut a game off before it auto saves if you’ve messed up?

For example, a character dies in Fire Emblem so you shut the game off and restart the level, because otherwise if you had finished the level the game would have saved and that character would be permadead.

Or in Wizardry, if you quit after a party wipe and restart the game, it will have saved your party’s condition from before the last fight started and you wouldn’t have to go down into the labyrinth to collect their corpses to revive them.

These aren’t using external tools like rewind emulators, but they are exploits created from turning off the game at times the developers didnt expect you to.

Would you consider this cheating?

>>11033380
I wouldn't consider cheating to be such an egregious offense to start with outside of say a multiplayer game. Otherwise I don't think you or anyone should care. That said though, I do feel like if you do engage in such then you shouldn't brag about it either which is where I feel like where the rub lies. Oh you can say you beat the game. You don't even knew to state HOW you beat it. But don't pretend you did it the hardcore way is my point.

>>11033380
Those games were explicitly designed with that on mind, so I'd say no. Hell, FE especially was infamous for enabling that exact tactic since the first game, with developers even acknowledging it back then.

>>11033380
In the case of Fire Emblem, restarting the level over is punishment for screwing up, same as it is to lose a life in a regular live system; and the devs have known this since the first game.

As for Wizardry, that's an exploit. The clear difference between the two is that in the case of FE restarting is part of the intended balance (in some FE games, the bad ones, you're even obligated to restart if you lose a character or else you'll find yourself in an unwinnable state); but in Wizardry, the original versions at least (not the remakes which lets you save anywhere and which are the equivalent of adding savestates to a re-release), the game does everything in its power to prevent the player from savescumming and the player still finding a way to do so is an exploit that goes beyond how the game wants to be played.

I see what you're trying to do here by trying to claim that savestates is the same as what same games already do, but different games have different rules, mechanics and expectations. Because some games let you save anywhere does not mean saving anywhere is or should be allowed in every game (and some games care more about their rules than other games that give more freedom to let the player decide); it would be like saying that you should be allowed to move your Pawn diagonally in chess because you can do something similar in checkers.

Some rule changes for a game are to be expected if the game survives time long enough; but not if those rules change clearly go against everything else the game is built on and if those rule change is to make bad players feel better about themselves when they don't want to really engage with the game's rule.
There is a football European Cup right now, imagine if they had decided to suddenly get rid of the offsides rule just because so many people are crying about it, and at the same time EUFA was telling everyone it's to fix the game becausae it's better to let players play. That's what video games do.

>>11033462
>I see what you're trying to do here by trying to claim that savestates is the same as what same games already do
That actually wasn’t my intent, because as you said there is a clear difference between intentionally designed checkpoints and ones added by savestates. I was just curious where people would stand on that particular type of exploit and what arguments they would make for/against.

>>11031117
>you assert how we should change how these games are discussed because of prevailing attitudes
No you asserted that, right there
>The only people wasting their time are the ones changing the game, playing through that version, and then trying to talk about it as if they played the same game as everyone else.
>as if they played the same game as everyone else
See? According to you, If you didn't play the game the way everyone else played it (which these days means playing it with savestates), you shouldn't waste time talking about that game on /vr/. Did you not understand the argument you were making or are you just being dishonest?

>>11033620
I was asserting how people discussed games as they originally were and you thought I was appealing to populism just like you, an effective demonstration of people who lack attentive consideration.

I understand how people like you have difficulty taking things on their own merit by inserting your own erroneous interpretations, it's just unfortunate your ego can't accept when somebody disagrees with you. That's why you need to change the rules when they don't benefit you and that's why you need to change the conversation when it doesn't benefit your cowardly egotism.

>>11029827
>3 paragraphs about your superiority
go back to redd1t, faggot.

>>11029718
I sometimes forget there are genuinely autistic people on this site

>>11030702
>My friends wanting to discuss FF7 with me after only playing the remake
It’s impossible not to be an elitist jerk in times like those.

>>11034168
Based beyond belief

>>11029718
I just use savestates in old RPGs like Dragon Quest where you have to go back to a certain place to save when quitting for the session. I don’t use them when I die in them.

It's cheating, no if ands or buts about it. But that isn't a problem, it's that people lie to themselves and pretend it isn't cheating. And even worse, scumbags saw money in catering to that lie.

>>11034654
Best Goku drawing alert

>>11034606
Jesus wept.

>>11030841
>no one will pat you on the back for not using rewind, anon.
This post is my official, free ($0) pat on the back to all anons who beat retro games without cheating!
GJ anon, I knew you could do it! Stay awesome bro

>>11029747
>Yes. It's a single player game. Let people enjoy it however they want.

>>11030841
>no one will pat you on the back for not using rewind, anon.
This post is my official, free ($0) pat on the back to all anons who beat retro games without cheating!
GJ anon, I knew you could do it! Stay awesome bro

Reading this thread is fucking depressing. Unbelievable how low standards have fallen. /vr/ mods allowed this with the rule change and then they have the gall to "curate" discussion they don't like while they're the ones doing actual real damage to this board.

Fuck, you guys really hate video games.

>>11029718
I wouldn't say unreasonable, you'll grow out of it

>>11033380
no, that's perfectly fine

>>11029718
It is pathetic and a completely beta move. Even when playing ROM hacks I don't rewind. I may at the most use save states in certain instances and even then I try to keep it at the beginning of the stage. If normies want the option to rewind leave it in, but it should be shamed.

>>11029718
I don't think you're unreasonable, just don't let it get to you all that much, in the end they're doing what they want for their individual playing and it doesn't really concern you much, it's not worth a thing worth losing your temper of peace of mind over at all, OP. I'll admit, I get it, when people do this and keep rewinding, it's like... "Why are you even playing?" it's awful to watch, but whatever.

I'm guilty of using save states though, and again it's fine... I'm not streaming or trying to prove to anyone how good I am, and I always make sure to say if I used it on a run, but again... who cares?

>>11035128
Thanks, anon! Also, can I get a head pat instead of a pat on the back? I want to be called a good boy for not cheating also...

>>11036898
>I want to be called a good boy for not cheating
You'll be called a "good boy" if you do your homework and brush your teeth. Let me see those teeth, people often forget to do proper oral hygiene, and I'm all about changing that. Fuck cavities! I hate them so much it's unreal!

>>11036898
I can give you a head pat, but I can't take the pat on the back back. You'll have to give it to someone else if you don't want it.
*digitally pats your head*
よく頑張ったぞ!さすがAnonくん

>>11035151
The prevailing sentiment is from players who play games they enjoy at a reasonable pace rather than forcing themselves through games they don't enjoy, what's your problem with that?

>>11035151
The prevailing sentiment is from players who aren't forcing themselves through games they don't enjoy, what's your problem with that?

>>11029718
yes you are unreasonable because you want people to deliberately waste their time for some gay video game version of stolen valor.

>>11038927
Playing is a waste of time when you aren't winning, thanks for chiming in

>>11030492
for me i think an underated point is, "i already fucking beat this game years ago as a kid i just wana play for fun now if i play again at all".

I could not care less how someone else chooses to play a single player game