/vr/ - Retro Games

>>11027410
At the time, people thought they were getting a Zelda that looked like the SpaceWorld presentation and then got something much more angular and stylized. Time has overall been kind to its reception, but in the moment some felt they had been promised Arkham Asylum and got Lego Batman.

>>11027416
>but in the moment some felt they had been promised Arkham Asylum and got Lego Batman.

That's pretty much the perfect way to sum it up, but man is it a testament to the overall quality of the game that it managed to win so many people over in the end.

>>11027410
Gaming was in it's edgy adolescence where realism and violence was the style at the time, even industry people (mainly american developers) harshly critisized Wind Waker and the GameCube as "holding back videogames' potential as an artform by reducing it back to be a children's toy".

I liked Wind Waker when it was new...

as a forum faggot i can tell you there was a variety of opinions.

>>11027427
every Zelda game is shit on until the next one comes out. it's happened every time other than botw and totk which is weird because those ones actually stink

>>11027410
no

I hate all 3D Zelda games.

>>11027526
WW was fairly loved once it actually came out. It was just in the marketing phase where people were absolutely pissed.

People (especially N64fags) hated every Gamecube game back then
Luigi's Mansion
>"I wanted Mario 64 2, not a gay ass Luigi ghost game! Fuck this game!"
Mario Sunshine
>"The fuck? Flood? This doesn't play exactly like Mario 64! Fuck this game!"
Star Fox Adventures
>"Why is it gay Zelda? I wanted Star Fox 64 2! Fuck this game!"
Mario Kart Double Dash
>"Ew, team gimmick! I wanted Mario Kart 64 2! Fuck this game!"
And Wind Waker
>"Ew, even gayer Zelda! I wanted Ocarina of time 2! Fuck this game!"

>>11027561
And we were right on every point.

>>11027526
That's because irrespective of its quality, BotW is basically not a Zelda game in the traditional sense, and the people who love it for what it is came to vastly outnumber those who dislike it for what it isn't. TotK is pretty much a glorified expansion pack to the first game, so whatever you felt about the first one, you'll likely feel about the second.

>>11027410
It sold less than Zelda 2, the game the very same people will say is bad so...

>>11027537
zoomer detected

>>11027410
It was extremely mixed. I was one of the people who thought it looked really cool, despite being so different from the SpaceWorld demo. I was also one of the faggots who complained about Metroid Prime before it came out, trying to follow the Halo trend and abandoning what made Metroid so good. I guess you win some and lose some.

>>11027561
All of those are legitimate complaints though. Except for the Luigi's Mansion one. That one makes no sense. Why would you expect an equivalent Mario 64 sequel when it stars Luigi?

>>11027453
I hated the football head and shapeless body of Toon Link then, and I hate it now.

Haven't even played the game yet though, even though I've owned some kind of greatest hits copy of it for like twenty years or something. I figure it'll probably be fine when I get around to it. And I'll probably like the graphics, other than the ugly (to my eye) living characters.

>>11027735
>living characters.

This is awkwardly put and will probably confuse somebody - I just meant people and monsters basically, as opposed to landscapes and architecture and stuff. (I don't even know how the monsters look, but based on how Link looks, I assume their stupid faces and proportions will annoy me.)

>>11027618

Because it came across as being the big Mario-related flagship game for the console, and people were used to that game being a normal Mario game. It was weird to have a Nintendo console with no proper Mario game on it, and putting out a good but much more limited Luigi-versus-ghosts game instead felt like a tease to some people.

IIRC, the most common criticisms for Luigi's Mansion at the time were that it was too short, too easy, and you couldn't jump.

it's very pretty but honestly probably the worst 3d zelda. overworld is a pain in the ass to get around despite being a cool concept and the dungeons are mostly boring except earth. although the items are all pretty well utilized in them except the hammer but the boss fight being dope makes up for it. also that "sympathetic" ganondorf plot was so stupid, like the gerudo already fucking hated him in oot so why's he acting sad about being an asshole? was it supposed to be crocodile tears or he got used by the triforce of power or unfinished plot or what?

>>11027618
N64fags were salty as all shit and hated change.

>>11027526
botw and totk ripped off banjo kazooie nuts and bolts and you cannot convince me otherwise

God I love Wind Waker. I feel relaxed just thinking back on sailing let alone when I play it. Ill probably never sail irl or even see a palm tree. There's something so wonderful about that game. It's a great adventure and I love it.

>>11027428
This, not to mention it added to the stigma of the gamecube as a babby console which was already bad enough

>>11028026
I love it too. I grew up in a tropical place and WW was awesome. The triforce hunt never bothered me. I actually had fun with it. It felt like the only Zelda game where I wanted money. It was fun. I really liked the ending too.
There are things I would change and it is unfinished but to me its one of the only 3d zeldas I like playing

>>11027584
>BotW is basically not a Zelda game in the traditional sense
It's more like Zelda 1 than OoT is kek

>>11027584
If BOTW isn't a Zelda game, then neither is Wind Waker. Or NES games for that matter.

>>11027584
Got bored of totk. The whole game lives and dies on whether or not you like to grind for items. Ridiculously bland.

>>11028178
>>11028090
Enough

>>11027416
What's really hilarious is that the SpaceWorld demo looks like complete ass. Twilight Princess artstyle still holds up but that didn't exist yet. People were actually mad that the new Zelda game didn't look like literally this

>>11028220

>>11027410
Honestly I dug the art style *before* it actually came out. The earliest trailers made it look way more cartoony than it ended up being. I remember they showed a scene where a bunch of Moblins chased Link off a cliff like something out of Looney Tunes and it had me thinking the game was gonna have all sorts of similar fun things but what we got didn't have anything like it. The game never did anything to tie into the new art style.

I was also just massively disappointed with it as an actual game. It is so god damn handholdy, it feels like the training wheels don't come off until the very end. You're not allowed to sail and explore until over halfway through the game, if you try to the boat tells you no and turns around. Even when you're allowed to finally explore, youre often gatekept off most of the islands due to needing items you don't get until the end too. The dungeons were also seriously disappointing and there is simply not enough of them for how lackluster they are. Hell 3 of the 5 just reuse the same tedious and unfun mechanic of taking control of another object or character, could they really not come up with anything else? I also hesitate to call the Tower of the Gods a dungeon because its super short and basically a straight shot to the end so might as well knock the dungeon count to 4.
>b-but Majora only had 4 dungeons and everyone praises that game!!!
Majora also had plenty of mini dungeons, quests to do on the way to the main dungeons, and a buffet of side quests that more than makes up for that. Wind Waker doesn't have anything to make up for its lack of meaningful gameplay. Also Majoras dungeons are actually good, Wind Wakers are not. The story just sucks, it's painfully obvious where they had to cut things to get the game out on time and the Tetra being Zelda "twist" is undeserved because you only even see her like twice before that happens.

Honestly shocked the game didn't get more hate once it was released, its really not good.

>>11028226
Sea exploration is peak. If they just made a game like WW but with a bigger ocean and islands that you actually have to discover it would be amazing.

>>11028228
It can be fun, its just done incredibly poorly in Wind Waker. I really enjoyed Assassins Creed 4(most of the time anyway) because it went all in on sailing around and looking for treasure, you even got cool pirate maps and shit to find buried chests and whatnot. Exploring in Wind Waker is futile, like I said for most of the game the boat just straight up will not let you and once you finally can you probably don't have the right items to complete the islands.

They should have made more islands that don't require so many late game items, or even ones that aren't just isolated puzzle boxes. Every single island in Wind Waker is just "Use X item to get heart piece" and its hardly ever interesting, would have been cool to get some that were like minidungeons or something or had a secret optional item.

>>11027428
>videogames' potential as an artform
What do and did people mean by that? I don't think video games can be an art form. Maybe Riven is the one that came closest. Did those american devs back then just mean "darker and edgier"? I was definitely on that train when WW came out and didn't play any Zelda again until 2012 or so.

>>11027410
i still hate it, it's by far the worst and most boring 3D Zelda game

>>11028220
>this is what the "mature, adult gamers" wanted.
just another reminder to never pay attention to what braindead normies think

>>11027526
Skyward Sword is still shit on and it will never not be shit on.

>>11027428
>"holding back videogames' potential as an artform by reducing it back to be a children's toy".
video games aren't a childrens toy!!! They're an insecure teenagers toy!!

>>11029165
>just another reminder to never pay attention to what braindead normies think
yeah! I only listen to brain dead disaffected channers

>>11028894
still less linear than Twilight Princess.

>>11028303
>What do and did people mean by that
Wanting their job recognized as aomething to be ashamed of, much how tv writers wanted to be taken seriously like their cinema counterparts

Also what >>11029680 says.

Yeah, the kiddie game series for babies had even kiddier graphics than usual which got the fans upset who wanted to be taken seriously for their obsession with a kiddie game series for babies.

>>11029690
>people actually believe in this

>>11027749
Except that's what Mario Sunshine was. They should be angry with that instead of Liugi's Mansion.

>>11029708
Example of a non kiddie game that plays the same? Where do I level up to? Nobody else does the same thing

>>11029816

Sure, once it came out, if they didn't like it. Or today, obviously, since both games have been equally available for decades. But during most of 2002, only Luigi's Mansion was out, and people wanting it to be a huge Mario game didn't yet have any huge Mario game to turn to instead.

>>11029829
Symphony of the Night.

Has all the elements of Zelda games except it has gay vampires instead of gay elves.

>>11029805
>because it's true
TP is a guided tour

>>11028303
It's a commonly misused and misunderstood term imo.

Used correctly, describing videogames as a form of art shouldn't be equating it to high art /classical artistry the way I understand it.

Rather game design, storytelling, user experience and gameplay design can be executed well (artfully) or incompetently.

You may hear the expression "the art of" something (Art of Fighting was a play on this of course) eg. The art of engineering or teaching. The same applies to them. Not art in the literal sense.

Does /vr think differently though?

>>11027410
It's a shit game, I don't know why zoomers are trying to pass it off as some kind of hidden gem.

>>11029865
>has all the elements of zelda games
No it doesnt though.

>>11027416

>>11029949
Combat, puzzles, exploration, character progression, boss fights, item management, ...
What else is there to Zelda games?

>>11029865
I want more puzzles and stuff plus its 2D.
Where do I go after symphony of the night?

>>11027735
There's plenty of games where you can sexualize twink or shota link.

>>11029959
Its just not the same...no puzzles...no fun side stuff.......its just not the same...

>>11029961
>plus its 2D.
so are most Zelda games....

>>11029965
So? SOTN isnt the same thing when compared to 2D zeldas either. you focused on a weird point there

>>11029973
Being 3D can't be called a Zelda element since it needs to be an element shared across all Zeldas otherwise it would be just an element of a specific subset of Zelda games.

>>11029962
The unpleasantness of wormy-bodied, ugly-cute cartoon characters that look like they should be on Adventure Time or something is independent of sexuality. If you're defending the cel-shading, stop because I already like that and wasn't attacking it. If you're defending ugly characters, get better taste.

>>11029981
Okay but you still didnt answer my question dude. Im not arguing with you on this at all.

>>11027561
>Luigi's Mansion
Always loved this game
>Mario Sunshine
Always enjoyed this game even though I could tell it's flawed
>Star Fox Adventures
Even back then we made fun of it being a Zelda clone but still enjoyed it
>Mario Kart Double Dash
Always hated this and still hate it today
>Wind Waker
Always loved this and never wavered, even though I was aware of the Spaceworld demo. I actually disliked Twilight Princess due to my love of Wind Waker, a controversial opinion

>>11029708
But enough about Super Mario World 2...

>>11027416
I don't really agree with this. I remember the initial reaction when the first graphics came out was super negative, but they changed them a little, time went on and when it came out I remember it being quite well received. A bunch of people like me who never cared for Zelda before played it. The impression I get is that it's more looked down on by Zelda fans but enjoyed by non Zelda fans.

>>11027526
The Zelda cycle is only true if youre perpetually online and surrounded by perpetually unhappy contrarians. Basically that happened because the new game could never hold up to nostalgic memories of the old one in peoples heads.

>>11027428
>even industry people (mainly american developers) harshly critisized Wind Waker
Even Miyamoto fucking hated the Wind Waker artstyle, repeatedly asking them to change it to a realistic style before giving in.
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2022/06/miyamoto-wasnt-a-fan-of-the-art-style-in-zelda-wind-waker-when-he-first-saw-it1

>>11029961
honestly, check out animal well. it's not /vr/, but its a 'collect items to solve puzzles' game like zelda. same with tunic.

>>11030494
This is the exact moment miyamoto mentally checked out

>>11027410
I know I was very upset and disappointed with the game when it came out, and still am although it's fades a bit with time.
First was the art style, while the art style itself was actually very good but I felt it was really out of place for a Zelda game.
Second was I basically 100% the game in a little over 14 hours on my first play though. I'm a casual gamer that just plays to unwind but was horrified that I got within spitting distance of speed run records, and that's with me doing the picture side quest to try and drag the game out to try and get my moneys worth. The game was just way too easy, and most of the game time was just traveling and picture taking. Don't get me wrong it was like 8 hours of quality fun, but most games delivery me 16 hours of quality fun. So in the end I gave it a 6/10 as a game in isolation it was fun for what little time it lasted, but overall I was expecting more like a 9.8/10 as that was what Zelda games typically delivered to me, so as a Zelda game it lead me to drop the franchise as I hated it that much.

Who knows, it's objectively a better game than OoT or MM.

I don't think I care about this series at all anymore. And I use to be really into it. But that was as a kid. And it didn't have to be Zelda. Probably could have been anything where you're on an adventure with a sword.

>>11030494
I'm still surprised he allowed Aonuma to be the Zelda producer. The following two titles, Minish Cap and Four Sword Adventures became the two lowest selling titles in the entire franchise until Nintendo of America actually for once interviened.

>>11030615
I wish we had more of the old guard for longer...
lttp and la are cool as hell.

>>11029685
That's good since they're typically correct, as demonstrated by the example you just replied to

>>11027410
I liked it.

>>11030550
Bro, same here. I even remember posting online at the time how disappointingly easy I was finding the 3D games at the time which reached its limit to me with Wind Waker, and lamented how there was nothing like Dungeon 8 from Zelda 1 in the series anymore. Just encounters with lots of enemies that demanded your skill.

One of my buddies responded "Zelda with lots of enemies? You just want Dynasty Warriors Zelda!"

>>11030275
Everything you said is literally wrong.

>>11029182
Wrong, it's been rehabilitated since the HD remaster came out.

>>11027526
I'm sure at least one person managed to somehow be critical of Ocarina of Time when it came out but also I definitely didn't see or hear that person's opinion if he existed. Everyone I heard from both in magazines and in real life just loved it when it came out. It was possibly the least "shit on" game of all time.

>>11027564
Kek. Exactly this. Everything about the GameCube was a lame step back. Looked like a child's toy, worst and most babyish looking controller ever made, all games were kiddified disappointments except for the one resident evil on it, and the games even came on stupid baby sized cd/dvd's so the toy console couldn't play either.

>>11029992

>>11028220
In the year 2000 that wasn't that bad looking for nintendo

Yes, i still have yet to play it because of how repulsed i was by the visuals at the time.

>>11031391
>classic disingenuous oot fan shit
It was well received and most sites with user reviews are now gone but you just haven't tried anon, that's why.

The reality is that, wether a game could even be objectively good, somebody will give it a bad review. Gamefaqs will provide here and there's lots of reviews with only a couple of negative ones, so it's clearly *very* well received. But don't kid yourself there's no detractors either.

>>11031391 #
>classic disingenuous oot fan shit
It was well received and most sites with user reviews are now gone but you just hadn't tried anon, that's why.

The reality is that, wether a game could even be objectively good, somebody will give it a bad review. Gamefaqs will provide here and there's lots of reviews with only a couple of negative ones, so it's clearly *very* well received. But don't kid yourself there's no detractors either, there were the same basic issues being discussed then too.

>>11031391
>classic disingenuous oot fan shit
It was well received and most sites with user reviews are now gone but you just hadn't tried anon, that's why.

The reality is that, wether a game could even be objectively good, somebody will give it a bad review. Gamefaqs will provide here and there's lots of reviews with only a couple of negative ones, so it's clearly *very* well received. But don't kid yourself there's no detractors either, there were the same basic issues being discussed then too.

>>11027410
That's nothing. You should see how these retards acted when Twilight Princecss got announced and we were going to get an OMG SO DARK AND MATURE ZELDA GAME FINALLY!!

>>11027561
And we were right. Nintendo had a massive amount of goodwill from the N64 days and squandered all of it on pet games that no one asked for. The concepts were never worth the alienation either. If you die because Kingdom Hearts is hated, well, you gave it your best shot. If you die because Sunshine is hated, now you never had the chance to make Mario 64 2 that everyone actually wanted and that you could almost certainly have delivered on.

>>11027618
it was the launch title, it broke the pattern from the last 3 consoles

>>11032471
What do people actually mean when they say they wanted a "Mario 64 2"?

Like were you really expecting Nintendo would just make the same Mario game for a 2nd time on the GameCube but with new levels/stars and better graphics?

That obviously was never going to happen.

>>11032471
it would never live up to 64 anyway so i'm glad they tried something new, plus the atmosphere is comfy. but they should've gave sunshine another year in development anyway because it was obviously not finished.

>>11032496
>Like were you really expecting Nintendo would just make the same Mario game for a 2nd time on the GameCube but with new levels/stars and better graphics?
Yes, N64fags just wanted the same but "better grafics" and then threw tantrums online about how shit the gamecube's library was, and judging by the replies, they're still seething to this very day.

>>11032496
That's exactly what they wound up doing for Galaxy, fwiw.

>>11032464
And they were right to react like that. I'm still pissed Nintendo hasn't made a new dark/mature Zelda game since 2006. Instead the series is stuck doing cartoony bullshit.

>>11027561
I boycotted all of those games except Sunshine. Wish I didn't buy that one too. Considering the best games on the system have been ported I would never collect Gamecube games.

>>11027561
luigi's mansion and double dash are good. The hate towards windwaker is why twilight princess was so positively received

>>11028220
it was the year 2000 my guy

>>11028240
What are you talking about, 90% of WW's great sea is available immediately after the forest temple, which is 6 hours after starting. Also until the forest temple there is a lot to do and the main quest more than fun from windfall -> dragon roost -> forest haven. Those areas alone have better music and vibes than 99% of the stuff that's come out in the last 20 years.

>mm
mm first hour makes you walk in a straight line then chase the bombers, easily one of the most restrictive and quest starts in any zelda. im not trying to elevate ww over mm rather proving you dont remember these games all that well, i think maybe you remember how you feel and just that.

>>11034548
You're wrong here. I'm a windwaker fan but there's seriously no point in exploring the sea until the triforce hunt which is where 90% of the fun is. Dont lie about the game i like.
All exploration should be saved for the triforce hunt portion of the game. Thats the right way to do it

>>11034548
What an annoying post man. You make people who like windwaker look bad

>>11034498
Honestly I want an M rated zelda. where you can fuck a redhead like malon in the farm

>>11034559
You literally can explore the sea right after forest haven, it's a zelda so ofc you won't have the hookshot, fire/ice arrows, etc to fully explore each island but you can stumble on them and memo it for later. Such as the blizzard island or the volcanic island and many more. You claim to be a windwaker fan but clearly i appreciate it more or at least i have the ability to convey it in my sentences.

>>11034565
>no arguments or examples
Youre just not like me, im entertaining and insightful. youre just the run of the mill /vr/ slopposter i just laugh at you and go on enjoying anything i can appreciate. can you say the same i doubt it LMAO

>>11034594
Nah man you really shouldn't explore until the triforce hunt. That is a way better way to do it

>>11034602
it's too late I already explored before the triforce hunt and had a better time playing the game than you. It's okay to enjoy things the wrong way, you just arent enjoying them as much as the next guy, such as me.

>>11034608
I don't know why you're being so weird about this when we literally agree with each other. Jesus dude. There's no argument here. Turn that mode off.

>>11027410
I hate it now. Zelda turned to shit once the franchise became full on Nipponslop with Majora's Mask and Wind Waker cemented it forever.

>>11027561
And as time goes on they are proven even more right than they were back then.

>>11034620
> There's no argument here. Turn that mode off.
>>11034559
>You're wrong here.
>Thats the right way to do it

idk why you both gaslighting when i can glance up and see u stuffing bananas in your ears going im right ur wrong LMAO

unless ur a different guy just think back 5 mins ago about what u posted and u can see for yourself u are arguing.

>>11034635
Geez man. Do you ever turn it off.

>>11034637
im being funny ur just lame and swiss cheese memory LMAO

>>11034643
Huh?

>>11034647
ESL?

>>11034650
?

>>11027561
I pretty much do prefer all of them to the N64 ones

>>11032496
>>11032535
>>11032684
>>11032730
Mario 64 DS was closer than Sunshine. Let’s be honest - the Nintendo devs realized the GameCube was a flop and put the actual sequel on the DS instead.

If you changed Mario and Bowser to original characters, no one would have recognized Sunshine as a Mario game anyway. It was stylistically closer to Banjo.

>>11027410
Yes.

>>11031381
Now you just get to choose between slow jank and barely functional jank.

>>11028221
Link looks great

>>11027983
This has to be bait, how did BotW (not TotK) rip off Nuts n Bolts?

>>11027410
and they were right to hate it, they focused so much on their cutesy artstyle that they forgot to actually finish the game and had to pad it out with a tedious triforce pieces fetch quest

In retrospect after all the hype and childhood nostalgia I don't think I'm the into 3d Zelda games.
If anything LTTP stands out to me and that game is older than I am

>>11027410
>>11027416
and at that time of the WW reveal, Lord of the Rings and Morrowind was in the normosphere.
Never been a more terrible time to show off something like this

>>11027983
>Rare invented contraption building and gmod shit
BotW is Mega Man Legends 3

>>11031381
The port is even worse than the original lol

>>11027564
Ironically the Star Fox game that came after Adventures did even worse where the former was the last good selling Star Fox game.

>>11029805
Your Wolf Link collectathon bro?

>>11031381
because they fixed its its major problems (aside from the overworld being lame) and thus people now realize it was actually pretty good and retards just overreacted.

>>11027410
wind wacker child game.... look to king of red lions animal name boat to make kid player happy like children show.. wind wacker cartoon world with rainbow unlike twilight princess with dark corridorr and tunnel like castle.. wind wacker like playhouse. wind waker playor run from ganondwarf fear of dark world and monster so need child game to relax

>>11030615
FSA was really cool but it asked a lot to expect you to play it with 4 friends with 4 GBA link cables to get the intended experience. Crystal Chronicles shares the same sin but at least it's pretty even on your own.
Minish Cap is solid but it lacked ambition.

>>11027410
What's the reception of WW and TP today?

I last played WW ages ago on GCN but it used to be one of my favorites. It could've been more difficult but a 3 Heart 2nd Quest challenge was sufficient for me. I think they were too afraid of making another Water Temple. It's claimed its development was cut short and that they intended to add some more; I'm sad the port didn't do more in that regard. I found sailing to be relaxing but I can also understand if others think it's empty. For what it's worth I also hate surfing oceans in Pokémon, the less the better.

On the other hand, every time I tried to play TP either on Wii (I really only bought it for hacking the console) or Wii U it couldn't hold my interest for longer than a few hours. The beginning is incredibly slow and it was the start of non stop dialogue, slow text pop up boxes and cinematics leading me to fall off Zelda as a series. Even as a kid I found it ironic that the "mature" looking Zelda had exceptionally more hand holding and guard rails.

>>11027823
You may be misremembering. He wasn't really portrayed as sympathetic as much as a juxtaposition to the King of Hyrule. Ganondorf has no love for the new world versus the King who is willing to let it go, accepting that its time had long past and should be left behind. I suppose you can see Ganondorf as a perversion of nostalgia for the old games, becoming a laser focused intent of restoring the glory days that ultimately fails.
It's interesting to me that there's multiple games in that generation including MGS2 that deal with themes of legacy and accepting change. While it's something we all feel, just like their relationship with nukes and mushroom clouds, the Japanese probably felt a different way in the 2000s, still coming off a period of opulence in the 80s and early 90s which a lot of the people who worked on these games at the time probably grew up in.

>>11034594
For what it's worth bro, my memory of the game, despite the years, more closely aligns with yours than the other guy. I did play the game to 100% a handful of times growing up though.
WW handholding and guard railing is mild to my tastes, whereas I found Midna and the twilight segments absolutely insufferable that I dropped the series.

>>11036010
And then we went back to familiar territories after WW and MGS2 receptions lmao.

>>11036037
>I found Midna
>Not liking Casca, Farness and Schierke in a nice little goblin package.
Next you're going to tell me OoT Link being Skull Knight was lame.

>>11036071
TP committed worse sins than WW ever did in my eyes. Everything Twilight only ever slowed the game down. I can't comment on anything after that since I stopped playing these games.
I don't want to further discuss Metal Gear since it feels off topic here but I disagree MGS3 and onwards was familiar unless you only care about Snake and Naked Snake and Venom Snake. MGS3 was a departure from its removal of reliance on radar and the move from puzzle-action corridors to more open environments. MGS4 was a movie, which is just as well since I'd only trust a MGS movie by Kojima. MGS5 was a really fun action sandbox. I'll be honest and say I didn't play the PSP games.

I grew up playing Zelda 1. Wind Waker was tedious and boring.
>wowee make boat go now... so now I just.. wait?
>oh look journey interrupted *arena fights*
>destination zone loads artificially from disk, dispelling immersion

>>11036095
>. I can't comment on anything after that since I stopped playing these games.
Not retro but A Link Between Worlds was a very nice game. It made ruppee gathering feel actually worth it having to actually invest on your gear to go adventuring. Very nice title, like the Oracles and LA, that sort of quality.

BotW it feels to me like a case of too little to late. The people who yearned to a return to Zelda 1's open endness and being able to tackle almost any challenge in any order are already so old they don't engage much with videogames, while the Zelda fans who still play the games resent BotW for being different, wanting the series to go back to "old Zelda", which in their minds is OoT, WW and TP.

Any game where Ganon takes a more prominent role and is a nigger doesn't interest me. He's a pig boss you shoot arrows into, I don't care about his cUlTuRaL bAcKsToRy

Gamecube was kino

>>11036105
I've heard very good things about ALBW and I'll take your word for it as well. Sadly my 3DS met an untimely end falling off my bed when I fell asleep playing SMT4A (I loved vanilla SMT4 but SMT4A was not very good and had many things I disagreed with). I haven't bought a Nintendo since the Wii U and because the 3DS and Wii/U services just ended I'm hoping Nintendo will show some diligence and make these games available again in some capacity on their next system (although I'm still leaning towards a PS5 for Tatsujin, R-Type Final 3, and future M2 and Hamster support).

I still need to give BotW and its sequel a fair shake as well, but as you may tell from my tastes I'm way more action oriented these days so I doubt I'll have the patience for slower paced open world sprawls. The Zelda gaiden game they just revealed shows they still have an interest in the puzzle and dungeon crawling side of Zelda, it seems they just need to figure out how to divide the work up so they can sell two games to two tastes.

>>11036010
>Ganondorf has no love for the new world
Weird that they'd make the player agree with the villain like that.

>>11036169
Tears might tickle your fancy, the glue and lost Zonao tech aĺlows to basically create any way to murder stuff.

It is a bit of a shame you dropped Twilight, after getting the Master Sword the world opens up and the dungeons proper are excellent but before that it is a slower game with the Twilight Bugs. Midna gets character development too, and becomes like gentler torwards Link, she drops the smug act.
The manga might still be the best way to experience the story though.

>>11027561
I thought those things back then
Luigi's mansion was fun though, but I did kinda want a Mario game on release

I liked how Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door was literally Paper Mario 2

At least they got that one right before ruining the vibe of the series

>>11027561
All of those things were correct though? And it shows with how well the GC did. Doing a bunch of gonzo takes on their brands instead of giving fans what they want in a straightforward way was really alienating. Sure most of those games were good but it's like ordering a hamburger and getting pate. Yes it's food but it's not the same

>>11028220
>twilight princess art style still holds up
lol, lmao even
It looked like shit then and looks even worse now. It has to be the ugliest Zelda game ever made. Entire game looks like it had a shit brown wash over it. Its only saving grace is the walking onahole you get to run around with who was actually well written

>>11027561
If it wasn't for the Nintendo branding, this would still be the sentiment today. The Gamecube was a flop.

I grew up with a ganecube but 0 nintendo games
i had REmake, eternal darkness, ikaruga, dark alliance, conflict desert storm, sands of time

It was awesome

>>11031391
I disliked it on first impression because I didn't like that Link became a gay little fairy boy from the forest. That impression did not last, but it made the game difficult for me to enjoy at first.

>>11035840
Offering two different forms of shit controls does nothing to fix the controls being shit.
Nor does a blanket increasing of the durability of shields change the fact that the game flat out discourages shield use.

>>11037464
You're right. OoT would be better if you started as adult link and you were the blacksmiths son and there was no tutorial

>>11037464
It's a LotR allusion. Kokiri Forest is like the Shire and Link is the Bilbo stand in who's disliked by some for being different (son of Belladona Took in Bilbo's case, no fairy in Link's)


>>11038239
So, Minish Cap?

>>11038290
Minish Cap is nothing but tutorials.

>>11038290
No. Not MC.

>>11037464
I disliked it on first impression because it isn't a 2d overhead sequel to Link to the Past. I like it more than Link to the Past these days.

>>11027410
It really didn't help matters that it was rushed and there were unfinished dungeons discovered in the game's files.

>>11038290
>>11038302
What about ALBW? although there he is a blacksmith apprentice rather than son.

>>11037675
well i thought they were both fine but i also thought the ones in wii were mostly fine too, some exceptions though like boss key inserting and that harp minigame. also you can just parry and the shield won't take damage, pretty handy for one-on-ones especially.

>>11038390
I don't know why you're bringing up other Zelda games.

>>11037675
>>11038474
also for the second one i meant tutorials being optional. i guess i can see shields being kind of annoying early on but you get used to it, didn't know people thought that was a big issue. just keep upgrading em so they have more health

>>11038479
Because of what >>11038239 said, follow the thread, man.

>>11027410
Yes, and ironically it was mostly the female fans who mailed in, asking them for sexy Link back.
I shit you not.

>>11038491
Its not relevant to what I said

>>11039187
>OoT would be better if Link was the son of a blacksmith [with no tutorial]
>Like these?
>wtf this is not relevant despite being what I asked for
Okay then.

>>11027410
Magazines tore it apart for the cute aesthetic

I liked Zelda better when it wasn't so damn focused on puzzles.

>>11027410
gamers didn't own gamecubes

>>11027410
for some reason my high school library had subscriptions to a bunch of gaming magazines during this time so I got to see all the fanmail talking shit about windwaker and the nintendo power shills having to counter back "b-but it won our game of the year contest bro, its good, people like it" in a very insecure way

>>11041824
straight up untrue. Magazines went hard defending it from teh evul gamers. I remember EGM having a whole editorial about how Miyamoto's vision trumped what any stupid fanboy might want

>>11036073
Midna fags not being nonces challenge.

>>11035879
>Minish Cap is solid but it lacked ambition
More like they ran out of time. MC was a couple of dungeons away from being better than ALttP.

>>11041981
>>11041987
>Dear Nintendo Power editor,
What the fuck is your problem!?
Nintendo Power did it the hardest but you can find the EGM issue that reviews Wind Waker post a screenshot of Link from Soul Calibur with a comment of "eeewwww Link wearing tights like this makes us glad the new game is a cartoon!"

>>11041981
>>11041987
>Dear Nintendo Power editor, What the fuck is your problem!?
Nintendo Power did it the hardest but you can find the EGM issue that reviews Wind Waker post a screenshot of Link from Soul Calibur with a comment of "eeewwww Link wearing tights like this makes us glad the new game is a cartoon!"

The problem is looking back at the complaints about Wind Waker through a vacuum.

Zelda started back when almost nobody took videogame lore or stories seriously, this even includes most developers making the games. Zelda 1 had practically no story beyond the cliche "Save princess/world from evil monster". Link's Awakening and Link To The Past helped, but it was still minimal at best.

Then we got OOT, which was a huge change. The game was not just in 3D but made full use of this to have cutscenes and story, it was full of more serious and dramatic elements and loaded with story and lore, not just some bad guy appearing in the intro and then the entire game is you going through levels until you fight said back guy with nothing really happening story wise in-between. This was followed by MM, which still to this day is one of the darkest Zelda games.

Then next Nintendo console was on the horizon, first one to finally use disks. After OOT and MM most Zelda fans wanted more of that. If a cart could give us OOT and MM, what could a mini-DVD do? Spaceworld then showed what a potential Zelda could look like, at the time it looked like concepts of OOT or MM on steroids.

A year later the next Zelda game, first one on a Nintendo disk-based system, was announced... it was a total 180 from everything Zelda people had seen in the last 5 years.

Looking at all the events leading up to the announcement of WW, instead of just the complaints in a vacuum, shows exactly why there was backlash. It would be like if after Dark Souls 1 and 2 we were shown a concept of DS3 that is even grittier, and then a year later the actual DS3 gets revealed to have anime visuals that make it look like Gensin Impact. If it wasn't for the bait-and-switch, and especially if Twilight Princess had come out before WW I feel there would have been far far less backlash. If anything, after three "serious" Zeldas people would have been more accepting of a more light-hearted/cartoony one like Wind Waker.

>>11042506
I always thought the Wind Waker aesthetic would have suited the N64 more.

>>11036431
>It has to be the ugliest Zelda game ever made
No, that would be Skyward Sword. Twilight Princess looks fine.

>>11027561
all legitimate points. you would feel the same way too if you were old enough to have experienced it.

>>11042505
Here it is

>>11042506
all u zelda retrospective huffing parrots reference spaceworld.
> it was a total 180 from everything Zelda people had seen in the last 5 years.
OoA and OoS were released in the last 5 years and in those games Link rides in the pouch of a boxing kangaroo, there was no departure at all. oot and mm was goofy, every zelda feels goofy even apocalypse games like 2 and and to lesser extent 1. ppl dont realize it but they parrot gaming magazines sentiment which at the time were all incredibly biased against nintendo games sorta like the BBC and CNN shit youd see about hating japan in the 1980s. read the old articles and cringe american publications sucked ass. i wish ppl not just you but all thought for themselves.

>>11043305
lol

>>11043330
it's a ridiculous argument anyway, all Zelda games have their moments in both directions, hell it doesn't get any more bleak than WW's opening narration

>>11043330
>but they parrot gaming magazines sentiment which at the time were all incredibly biased against nintendo games

>>11027410
>VGcatz
I wonder which came first, official Aerith lewds or Scott's divorce and subsequent wallet rape?

Mirror shield should have been the OoT one. Master sword should have been bigger
0/10 game

>>11048158
Also his sleeves should have been BROWN.
Link has BROWN sleeves.

>>11048158
>>11048171
Also
>default run animation clips into his shield
>you don't even have manual control over changing the shield of which only 2 exist
How the fuck does this shit happen in games. I can understand rpgs and games with customization but fuck does it bother me when a character clips with itself for no reason. Fucking lazy

>>11027410
No. You had a dedicated batch of complainers that spent years acting like they disliked OoT, and as soon as WW came out they adjusted their slogans. Most of them never played either game are were Sony fanboys.

>>11027410
I loved WW when it came out. It wasn’t the first Zelda game I played, but the first that I owned. Although now, I don’t like it as much after learning about how much content was cut from it.

>>11028086
>The triforce hunt never bothered me. I actually had fun with it
I really enjoyed that part of the game too, mostly because it forces you to explore the world. The only part I struggled with was saving enough Rupees for Tingle to decipher the charts.

>>11027542
Based and true.

>>11028220
honestly would have loved that, early 6th gen graphics are peak

>>11043194
TP and SS looked a lot uglier in HD when Nintendo removed the Vaseline filter.

>>11027561
>Star Fox Adventures
>"Why is it gay Zelda? I wanted Star Fox 64 2! Fuck this game!"
this was me
still am, in fact

>>11027410
Back then and today.
>people like ww now
No, Nintendo fans like it now.

>>11048383
I blame Miyamoto getting butthurt that Dinosaur Planet wasn’t a Star Fox game and made RareWare change it.

>>11048171
You joke but the thing that bugs me with the Toon Link design is how he loses his contrasting color of brown so he just comes across as way too much green. It's like if you just described Link to someone vaguely and they just heard "ok green outfit and some tights got it". Even OoT Link had white sleeves to match the white tights, or bare arms and sleeves for Young Link. Toon's just a mess thanks to the highlighter arms.

>>11048401
Im serious despite how I worded it. Im not sure why they changed it from the trailer
honestly the starting outfit could have just been what he had the entire game or just dont even bother differentiating between the main tunic and his undershirt if you're going to make it all green nearly anything else would be better

>>11048149
>official Aerith lewds
It's crazy to think vidya webcomics were once so prevalent that even the industry was involved in it some how
>That one penny arcade comic that came with Painkiller black

>>11048465
Oh fuck, I guess Aerith is that pink cat... I never really looked into VGcats, and that's probably for the better

Wind Waker was a great game.
Its remake looks awful, by comparison.

>>11048495
it got a remake?

I went from thinking it was pretty good to thinking it's the worst 3D Zelda side from SS, after 100%ing it. The figurine sidequest is unironically one of the worst sidequests I've ever done in any video game, most of the game is bland, has zero challenge or thinking required, and in the worst cases, is just tedious, like all the sailing. 500 hits against the swordmaster is also a good example of this as it isn't hard, just tedious. It's problems aren't anything huge, but they add up, since the game doesn't do anything particularly well either.

>>11048520
>the last reward is a Piece of Heart
>it costs nearly 800 rupees to buy all of the items
It definitely sucks. I hated the Withered Trees sidequest the most though.

>>11048520
>500 hits against the swordmaster is also a good example of this as it isn't hard, just tedious

500 was just for a heart piece, you needed 1000 for the Hurricane Spin

>>11027410
Nah, most everyone who actually played it really enjoyed it PS2cholos and Xboxfrats just leveraged it as another excuse to dunk on the Gamecube as a console for faggots and babies.

>>11030289
This. One of /v/ oldest memes was shitting on Twilight Princess because it "only" got an 8.8 from IGN. Meanwhile, everyone else was pleased with the fact that they finally got Ocarina of Time 2 with a 1v1 Ganondorf sword fight like they wanted.

>>11049369
That is bad.
IGN gave Skyward Sword a 10/10

>>11027561
Luigi's Mansion and Double Dash were the two that people's opinions changed on first. Wind Waker didn't really get it's moment in the sun until the HD release and (hilariously) Sunshine didn't start getting love until Nintendo fans were throwing temper tantrums over Gamecube games not getting released on the Wii U eShop.

No one has ever like Star Fox Adventures outside of furries. Which is a non-issue, because the only Star Fox game that Star Fox fans like is Star Fox 64

>>11049369
Anon even that score was too generous and is only that high due to the politics of games journalism at the time. But I don't think anyone citing dumb stuff like Zelda cycle in 2024 has any intention of arguing in good faith

>>11027526
Botw and its consequences have been a disaster for the series.

>>11048383
Adventures has more testosterone than any Star Fox and 3D Zelda after it

>>11049868
I can think of a bigger disaster for the series
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhBUTjcP9a8

>>11029892
Proper ludo like Super Monkey Ball, Shinobi 3 and Tomb Raider 3 are high art. Challenges and games have been made as entertainment for healthy adult males since the beginning of our species, just as long as music and fairytales. Those who think Super Metroid doesn't measure up to the greatest art in history are all old good new bad types with zero objective reasoning

>>11027428
To each his own, but I'm sure a lot of Nintendo users were actually very tired of getting almost nothing but family games and games about traditional action heroes, and hoped for the new Zelda to be something more "edgy". Even if Zelda OOT was still pretty childish and had a more generic and simplistic story than almost any PSX jrpg, it was still the closest thing to an "epic", "narrative" game you could find for your N64.
To be fair, thanks to getting more support from third parties and bringing back some series like Fire Emblem or Metroid, Game Cube ended up getting a more balanced library than N64, even if Wind Waker wasn't what people were wishing for.

>>11049394
Skyward Sword had more tutorials than a Mario & Luigi game.

>>11049168
>1000 for the Hurricane Spin
Is this for WW HD? You can get the Hurricane Spin in the original right after you get the Master Sword with 10 Knight’s Crests.

>>11049397
>No one has ever like Star Fox Adventures outside of furries.
Furries don't actually play adventure, or even own it, they just fap to krystal porn and are satisfied with her existence

>>11049397
Snesfox is better

>>11050160
Never played HD, it was in the original. I recall you getting a more powerful spin attack after getting 1000 hits in.

>>11050510
There is no such reward. It is 500 hits for a piece of heart. This is a silly thing to complain about in light of WW other issues

>>11049868
>>11049937
Except shit like 8.8 is basically directly responsible for BotW, along with Shadow of the Colossus

>>11049394
They only gave it that because Zelda fans expect all Zelda games to be 10/10

>>11050710
Shadow of the Colossus came out before Twilight Princess

>>11049397
>No one has ever like Star Fox Adventures
>the last original and successful selling Star Fox
>Good reception among reviewers in the 2000s
>the most okay Zelda game on GCN, aside Metroid Prime.
You could have just say you've watched Jontron.

>>11027618
Maybe because every appearance of Luigi up until that point he played almost identically to Mario?

>>11027618
Why would it be a ghostbusting game? How does that make sense? The Gamecube was one of the biggest eras of "let's slap an existing IP onto this new game idea we had, even though it doesn't fit," and it's to the detriment of the Gamecube's library. It made nobody happy.

Miyamoto does this shit all the time too. He tried to turn Splatoon into a Mario game until they managed to squirm out of it.

>>11052006

>>11051571
Stairfax Temperatures hehehehehe!

>>11050510
You're a dumbass, the Hurricane Spin Attack was a reward for 10 Knight Crests which you can steal very easily from Darknuts using the Grapple Hook in the original release.
The only changes WWHD did besides the lighting was streamline the Triforce hunt and the addition of the Swift Sail.

>>11048497
People don't know the difference between Remake and Remaster.

>>11054284
Yeah it’s extremely easy to get the Hurricane Spin in the original.
>first Knight’s Crest in the chest in Dragon Roost Cavern boss door room
>second Knight’s Crest in the third room of the Forbidden Woods
>third Knight’s Crest from the Darknut in Tower of the Gods
>next seven obtained from the Darknuts in Hyrule Castle
>get Ballad of Gales from Cyclos
>warp to Outset Island

>Cartoon graphics
>Triforce Hunt
>5 dungeons
>Sailing filler
>Can't explore Hyrule
>Easier that OoT

It was mid. There's a reason why the remaster tries to fix some of these things.

>>11054332
You want extra dungeon? Better sidequests? Islands with more than one gimmick? Sorry, we need Wind Waker to release for Q4 2002. *raughs*

>>11051571
I remember most people disliked the game, it's not just historical revisionism.

>>11027427
>quality of the game
they cut, like 70% of the content. If anything, it's unfinished.

The game was well received, but a lot of people didn't buy the GC because of it. People wanted the sequel of OoT, not TWW.

People were trying to fit together the timeline, believing that Nintendo had some master plan for the whole series with an ending point and so on. It was all bullshit.

Zelda used to be my favorite series, but they didn't really expanded on it, just kept reinventing the wheel or make a worst version of OoT. The creators didn't even beat the original game.

Don't confuse me when I say that people wanted a sequel of OoT and NOT a badly made rehash, like TP.

I remember that I thought that they'd explain the Dark World in TP, how it connected to Hyrule, its purposed and so on. More lore about the goddesses and so on.

They only kept releasing the same super easy game with blocked roads everywhere or a hard mode where the enemies just did double damage instead of creating a better AI.

I don't think any of them truly got what made OoT so unique, they will never capture that feeling again.

>>11027561
And they were correct. Really, why not expand on something like that? SF64 still been the best in the series is ridiculous. The same for M64.

>>11027542
Is that you Egoraptor?

>>11027410
I'm not a gamer, the thing I hated about it was the cell shading and the floating on a boat to get to places. It's was a complete waste of my time.

>>11031391
>It was possibly the least "shit on" game of all time.
Till Gen z came of age and when Gen y in the 2010s decided it was bad because of how popular it was.
I'll never forget those few years of hipsters trying to force Majora's Mask as superior lmao

>>11028220
>>11028221
There is nothing wrong with it. Gain tastes

>>11027618
Until the GameCube, the tradional Mario game released at launch. People were legit confused.

>>11027561
gamecube was such a disappointment

>>11055683
I wonder when he's gonna troon-out in order to stay relevant, just like Jim Sterling and PlayItBogart

>>11027410
this comic is how i learned that wind waker existed at the time and i remember thinking "ok i guess i don't mind the art style as much since i'm 6 years old and my soul hasn't rotted like all the older kids"

>>11027561
Never thought that about Luigi and DD
Those were good games

>>11028221
Looks like ReBoot, i.e. sick peak 90s 3D

>>11027561
True, I disliked all those games (although I did beat WW, it's just OoT but gayer).
Nintendo first party games were saved by Melee, F-Zero, Metroid Prime, and a few others to a lesser extent.

>>11056425
And it also hasn't happened again since. Honestly, I wish they'd wait longer. Yoshi's Island was a masterpiece because it came so late in the SNES's lifespan, compared to SMW, which didn't even qualify as a tech demo because it didn't show off any of the console's unique capabilities past that one stupid chip that lets the Koopaling sprites stretch out and float around after beating them, and in many ways looked worse than SMB3.