/vr/ - Retro Games

Probably because they created Dark Matter and for whatever reason, maybe more potential versatility for fight designs, they wound up preferring it over Nightmare

>played Dream Land
>thought it was kinda cool, beat Extra Game too
>played Adventure on the NES
>fun game with charming visuals
>tried Superstar multiple times, the next Kirby game directed by Sakurai, the best one according to many Kirby fans, THE Kirby game
>get bored every time after like 30 minutes
What the fuck. Kirby 64 is next on my list, looks very cool

>>10945676
Why are you skipping Dream Land 2 and 3?

>>10945698
Yeah I need to play those too. It's just that 64 looks so good I want to play it first. Skipping Superstar also feels wrong, I still feel like MAYBE when I'm in the right mood I'll end up liking it

>>10945579
The answer is that Dreamland doesn't take place in a world of dreams, it's just the name of the country. It was presumably named so because it hosts the Fountain of Dreams, an artifact which grants good dreams to people, but that's it. And Kirby killed Nightmare, why would he come back?

>>10945676
For me it's the opposite. I can replay Superstar (Ultra) many times but any of the other games put me to sleep.

>>10945748
How many times he killed Dark Matter/Zero?
Anyway Nightmare is cool and I wish they used him more. I think that in one of the recent spin off games his Dark version from the mirror world appeared, but I usually don't bother playing those.

>>10945851
It was Parallel Nightmare. They did a really good job adapting his NES attacks to a modern engine. They even pulled some attacks from his spin off appearance in a Mass Attack minigame.

>>10945851
Dark Matter is a primordial force of evil in the Kirby universe, while the Nightmare Wizard was just an individual.

>>10945851
Zero and Dark Matter haven't been used since Kirby 64 (aside from a copy popping up as a boss in a bonus mode). They just seem a lot more prolific than they are because a lot of later super bosses reference them.

>>10945897
I always liked when Kirby games would incorporate meta references/humor, like the Kirby's Dreamland reference level in Kirby's Adventure wasn't just a reference to the game in terms of layout, but it's even depicted in black and white and has the Green Greens theme, or how Mass Attack has a cameo by Customer Service from the Kirby cartoon. Self referential humor isn't anything novel now, but having an explicitly GameBoy themed level on an NES game in the 90s is pretty unique.

>>10946064
Kirby is really great for that kind of stuff. It feels like they reward players for being long time fans of the games. Some of the references in the modern game are pretty deep cuts too.

>>10946064
The occasional acknowledge of the broader Kirby franchise like the anime is pretty nice.

The whole "parallel" thing is just a convenient way for them to do side material for spin-off games, as to not disrupt the continuity of the mainline games.

Even so, it's cool to see them revisit Nightmare Wizard, a one-shot villain with such a large potential.
He was the main overarching villain of the anime where he was known as "eNeMeE", which is more to do with how the anime tied in with the then-relevant Night in Dreamland on GBA.

>>10945725
Kirby 64 is essentially Dream Land 4 so you probably shouldn't skip to it like that.

>>10945579
Japanese name of Dream Land is something nonsensical like Poo-poo-poo Land or some shit like that. That said, I wonder if the English localization of the first game influenced the story of KA, the only game in the series actually about dreaming.

>>10946387
Yeah Kirby's original name was Popopo, which goes with Dedede, and was likely a reference to Lolo and Lala.
I'd never really thought about the whole dream thing. Did the Japanese version of KD have any reference to sleep or dreams in the manual? The game itself was pretty surreal and dreamlike, regardless

>>10945851
"Dark Matter" is just one of Zero's many drones. Zero itself only got killed twice, the second time as a sort of zombie.

>>10945851
Dark Matter is a species, Zero I would say is the only villain that Kirby went out of his way to exterminate that came back (outside of Marx and Magolor for fan service, and Marx's return is of dubious canonicity).

If I remember my Kirby lore correctly, the first Dark Matter was a creature curious about emotions and friends, and thought possession was the way to go about it. Kirby teaches him emotions and friendship by killing him. This Dark Matter was a bit of a rogue one from th hivemind for some reason, but his death and activity attracts the rest of Dark Matter to Pop Star, including its overlord 0. Kirby kills 0 and its husk of 02 returns to ravish other planets and is killed again. 0 cannot comprehend any emotions, whereas 02 could only feel negative emotions.

>>10947027
>If I remember my Kirby lore correctly, the first Dark Matter was a creature curious about emotions and friends, and thought possession was the way to go about it. Kirby teaches him emotions and friendship by killing him.
Not quite. The DL2 Dark Matter was jealous of Popstar's residents being able to make friends, since all they can feel is negative emotions, and lashed out by breaking the rainbow bridges connecting the Rainbow Island; Since dark matter has a hivemind of sorts, Zero sensed one of his spawn being felled from his dark cloud (Hyper Zone) and decided to engulf Popstar to nullify the threat in Dreamland 3.

>>10947027
>>10947057
DL2 Dark Matter was the advance scout, while DL3 Dark Matter was part of the full invasion force helmed by Zero.

>>10947098
Yeah, could be seen like that, but he really felt jealous as confirmed by HAL themselves.

>>10947098
>>10947125
It could be both, which ties into the rogue thing. Dark Matter scouting for planets discovers Pop Star, gets jealous, and instead of reporting it decides to handle it in his own manner. It ties into the whole castle and unique identity this Dark Matter seems to have that none of the others do.

>>10947131
Yeah, I like your interpretation.

>>10947131
>no scene where Kirby is about to be taken down by some super-powered final boss, and Swordsman/DL2 Dark Matter shows up to save him, knocking away the enemy and giving him a powerup Meta Knight style, or asks him to allow a fusion to boost Kirby's power
They blew it.

>>10947321
That's pretty much what Gooey is.

>>10947321
Why would Dark Matter Blade save him though? Their whole schtick is being a evil force of nature.

>>10945579
Because he's actually a good guy, you just never stopped to listen because you're filled with hate.

>>10947332
He wanted to experience the friendship that made him jealous,

>>10946401
Not that I recall, but it mentions Kirby riding along on the spring breeze, which explains the KSS name. (Also doesn't call Kirby a 'boy' but I'm sure most of us knew that by now.) Dream Land fits pretty well, though. I think PuPuPu Land might have also been a play on Pop Star (PopPu Star)? Might've come later, though.
>>10947098
The problem is that there are two kinds of Dark Matter. There's Dark Matter the boss character, the main antagonist in KDL2, is revived in KDL3, and is a painting in K64. The other Dark Matter is a cloudy substance appearing in KDL3 and K64 that Zero and its successors control, which isn't even called Dark Matter in Japan (it translates as 'black cloud' instead and the KDL3 manual had it right). The two Dark Matters aren't even explicitly related, though it's generally accepted that the boss is an advanced member of the cloud species. Though Gooey is said to be made of the "same stuff" as the boss, so does that make him an off-shoot of the character or another independent cloud?

>>10948038
Retcons were clearly made somewhere along the line.

>>10946979
I think Zero and 02 are separate entities. I view 02 as Zero's spawn/heir. Similarly, Miracle Matter was Real Dark Matter's replacement. If Dark and and Miracle Matter aren't the same being, neither are Zero and Zero Two. Miracle/Angel=devs were known to be inspired by Evangelion at the time, nothing more.

>>10945579
Because he's just
>Dark Matter, Sakurai

>>10946979
and we don't talk about the third time.
I refuse to believe that jobber is related to Zero.

>>10948842
I always interpreted Zero Two as a reincarnation of Zero or maybe an undead version of him using the original's body? It's clear they're related (both through name and appearance) but I don't think they're the exact same being.

>Miracle Matter was Real Dark Matter's replacement.
Explain this one further, I'm curious.

isnt superstar just a collection of shit ass minigames?

>>10950668
Your mom's a collection of shit ass minigames. Lole

>>10947098
>>10950432
NTA but I can see it.
>KDL2: Gooey and Dark Matter (character) come to Pop Star, study Dream Land, the former assimilates but the latter spergs out and "befriends" Dedede but gets btfo by Kirby and his new friends
>KDL3: Zero detects that Dark Matter has been defeated so travels to the area itself in its Hyper Zone cloud and starts corrupting key figures, Kirby uses Heart Stars to fend it off with the power of friendship. Zero, in a last-ditch effort to spare itself the trouble, resurrects the fallen Dark Matter to do its bidding (hence why Dark Matter combines from particles when encountered), but both are btfo.
>K64: new "back-up" cloud goes on the attack elsewhere in the galaxy, helmed by 02 and enforced by Miracle Matter. In fact, Miracle Matter controls the main cloud covering the planet, while 02 controls the leader. (This is a bit unlike Dark Matter, who isn't seen controlling the clouds, but otherwise acts as a second-in-command.) Anyway both get btfo and Kirby accidentally wrecks a ceremony thinking about "dessert".
So, yeah, Zero/02 aside, Miracle Matter is a new "Matter" boss that takes directives from the cloud core thing. In KDL2, the seven Rainbow Drops form the Rainbow Sword; in K64, Matter uses the seven-colored abilities. There's a parallel I'm sure.

>>10951518
interesting take, I like it

>>10948038
>>10951518
I always saw K64 "backup cloud" as reserve forces pulling an all-or-nothing. Still powerful, but weakened compared to KDL3, and they're going after an easier target. The fairies seem to just be living in fear under the cloud instead of possessed (cept the queen). Has it ever been said what they wanted to do with the fairy crystal, though? Did they just want to shatter it so it couldn't be used against them? The manual indicates they wanted it in their possession, so why break it? Maybe they planned to use it to fully restore Zero?

Shadow Kirby should be the antagonist of the series if you think about it

>>10953949
We'll don't know the specific details and probably never will, which is a shame.

>Did they just want to shatter it so it couldn't be used against them?
Likely they accidently broke it. Considering they show up wherever the shards are on Pop Star and possess those who find them, they may have been tracking down the pieces too.