/vr/ - Retro Games

it's about having the option of rgb

Sorry to hear you wasted all that money on a composite only PVM OP

I use shaders and can switch between RGB and composite in 2 seconds.

People who don't like composite don't actually like CRTs.

that's a sexy ass crt

>>10920803
>Not taking the super video pill
Ngmi

>>10920803
Why are the contrast and sharpness turned up to 9000

>>10920803
Silent hill on a Ps2.... shame

>>10920902
I ditched composite as soon as I could in 1999-2000

>>10920902
I was born in 1986 and I didn't know any better until 2010. Composite just worked? Didn't even know HDMI was a thing until I got a PS3 Slim around then too.

>>10920803
l'g

>>10920803
A TV is a TV

>>10920959
Where can you even find a PS1 that can read CD-Rs without problems

>>10921128
What's it like being Brazilian?

>>10921151
Buy a black label silent hill. Do it!

>>10920950
The B&O sets have a very bright and sharp image. My MX8000 frankly comes close to my PVM.

PS2 renders Silent Hill weird for me. Both the fog and the dithering are displayed incorrectly.

it's easiest to see by running around the town, because if you see any polygons popping into view then it is wrong. the fog on original hardware completely masks all pop-in and polygons fade into view through the fog and dithering.

>>10921151
Mine has only EVER read CD-Rs and it's done so repeatedly for over 20 years

>>10921182
The light coronas are also broken on PS2 (some alpha gradient issue, you also see it on the moon in SotN in Olrok's Quarters)

>>10921182
Is it all ps2's or just the later ones? Didn't the slims remove the audio chip or something like that?

>>10921954
I have a PS2 phat 50001 that has the problems described.

>>10921830
>The light coronas are also broken
No worries, I got you some new ones.

>>10921156
NTA but it's like 1990 and 2035 America at the same time

>>10922452
crazy how nature do dat

>>10920803
Lot of detail on Harry's face there, is that because of running it on PSdouble?

It looked better than that when I played it on a 14"TV with RGB back then on a PSX. When I replayed it again on PS2, there were some graphical glitches.

>>10924170
even though the right is blurred and masked, it’s way cleaner than any composite output. no dot crawl, no color corruption

>>10924226
>be PALchad
>play 60hz games in PAL60 without dot crawl
>still get composite blending so no visible dithering
feels good

>>10924231

Is it possible to mod games or the PSX for outputting PAL60 like Gamecube? Last time I player Silent Hill on a pal modded psx it was the NTSC US version with an RGB scart cable.

My CRT TV is arriving tomorrow. If this thread is still alive, I will post a few pictures.

>>10921824
I was burning some CD-Rs for the playstation this week, but the writer in my current PC won't let me burn at less than 10X. In the nineties. Back in the nineties I was burning at 4X or lower, so I hope the extra speed won't fuck things.

>>10924409
The hardware is mostly universal across all systems but regardless it doesn't matter since all that counts is what's on the disc. If you have a "PAL" console that is region unlocked to play NTSC games then it will be 60hz because that's the data on the disc.

Unless you mean playing PAL games at 60hz. In which case, why? But yes, you need to have the game patched to play in 60hz but again why do you want to do that unless there isn't a NTSC release.

>>10924457
I was just asking, since I don't remember PAL60 being a thing on PSX. Just PAL, NTSC, and using the RGB signal when the TV can't do NTSC color..

>>10924462
I don't think any PAL releases for the PlayStation 1 had a 60hz option. Even though pretty much every tv manufactured after 1990 could display it.

The hdmi of its time

>>10924503
This makes Amerisharts piss and shit and scream in fear

>>10924491
Yeah. I was a bit confused after reading PAL60 in this thread, and I thought it was related to Playstation. Pal60 was nice in Gamecube with a CRT or a mid 2000s LCD, but nowadays I will take NTSC 480i over PAL60. 576i does not play nice with my capture card or the OSSC.

>>10921151
they all can do it just fine, you really need to use the right CD-R though; back in the day we would use Taiyo Yuden discs and relabelled ones sold by other manufacturers, today you want CMC Pro CD-Rs because they bought up all of the TY optical disc tech and are still mass producing them

other than that literally any PSone (SCPH-101) will be less picky about which type of CD-R you use and you can cannibalize the disc drive to put it in the original model from 1995 (SCPH-1001) if you have a totally busted drive on that

For PS1 games, composite or S-video? I live in a third world country and buying an imported S-video cable for the PS1 would cost me about 35 dollars so i wanted to know if it was worth it.

>>10924853
It's worth it

>>10924853
Depends. If you're using a softer CRT, showing the dithering will look uglier than blending it, but if yours is ultra sharp, s-video will also look good

>>10924853
Years ago when I got my first LCD tv I began using S-video with PS1 and PS2. Tt softened things a bit and I would see less jagged edges when compared with Scart RGB, while looking much cleaner than composite.

It could be much much worse. Composite + probably the worst possible CRT tv to have ever existed.

>>10924853
S-Video is a big upgrade.

>>10924959
SOVL

>>10924415
>so I hope the extra speed won't fuck things.
It won't. There's a lot of misinformation out there that says you need to burn at the slowest speed possible or it won't work and it almost tricked me into trying to find some ancient burner that burns under 8x. Thankfully I didn't waste my money and I've been burning ps1 games for years no problem at high speed.

>>10920803
>Playing Silent Hill on PS2
>Altering the image on photoshop to exaggerate the dithering
(You)

>>10920902
Compositefags are LARPing zoomers
People used RF

>>10924959
That looks soulful as fuck

>>10925038
More like shit. The moment the Philips (also shit, but not as much as this) arrives tomorrow, I'm getting rid of this garbage.

>>10925056
Only until Snes / MD. Then Dreamcast was sold with a fucking RF modulator, at least the later models.

This is why you need two CRTs and an OLED 4k, OP.

A consumer CRT for RF, Composite, S-Video, and Component, a PVM for RGB (and S-video for some models), and your OLED for a scaler. Doyyyy

Alright cunt, took a new picture for you, same TV, same settings, same cable

Let’s see a photo of your composite setup

>>10925276

...also, while you're hard at work taking a photo of your composite result, you'll probably realize that photos are a really shitty representation of what any CRT looks like in real life. The photo I just posted is larger than the actual TV, it cannot emit the same light as the screen you're seeing the photo on, plus you're looking at it as if you were up close with your face five inches away. Photos can only get you so far unless you spend a little brain juice imagining how it might look in real life

>>10924794
>today you want CMC Pro CD-Rs
absolutely fucking not, just because they bought up Taiyo Yuden doesn't mean they're actually upholding the same standards. All the modern CMC discs I've used turned into coasters, and t- acually I'm gonna stop there and let everyone buy all the crap while I keep the good shit for myself

>>10925276
Looks the way it should. Silent Hill is one of the playstation games with the heaviest dithering. Not visible on a consumer TV with light bleed even when using an RGB scart, but very obvious with scalers or PVMs and high quality CRTs. Took me some a bit to see the Bang & Oluffsen logo.

It's not Lookin' Good.

>>10925660
If only you knew how Good Lookin' things really were

>>10924462
>>10924491
>>10924409
PAL PlayStations cannot output 60hz through composite without a DFO mod.

Curiously, the N64 can, but no commercial game had a 50/60Hz switch.

>>10924503
Bad example as hdmi is utter garbage and only around because of mass adoption and the Hdmi ((forum)). They've had to staple so much on it because it became obsolete around the 2k-4k era.

>>10925929
It would predate HDMI just in terms of widespread availability. It became the norm for VHS, DVD players and satellite / cable /DVB boxes (many of them with a PAL / RGB output option), but console makers would keep bundling composite cables with a scart adapter even if few TVs has composite inputs. Cost cutting and manufacturing the same cable for the whole world, I guess.

>>10924959
>OASIS RULES!!!!
>BOOO!!!

>>10926275
I was supposed to be buying an MX Onda from Amazon (bought it in 2023), and got the same thing with Oasis branding instead. I have never seen that brand before.

6 inches cause a lot of weird artifacts. There's always a matrix of different colored dots.

>>10925660
>hd internal resolution
>random blur filter
>dithering turned off
>some strange glow added to the whites
>the worst crt overlay filter of all time
Has emulation gone too far?

>>10920902
>don't actually like CRTs
It depends.
My TV was shit, my 17" Sony monitor was awesome.

>>10924170
If you want to compare RGB to Composite do the real thing or else you're just comparing asshole to anus

Even on the earliest Playstation 2 models the original Playstation GPU is still emulated. It doesn't handle the dithering correctly and you get those ugly vertical lines through the image.

>>10920803
You don't get it, bro. You have to get a sony TRINITRON gamer tv and mod in a scart port. Only then will you be able to enjoy retro games as the developers intended.

>>10925329
>Looks the way it should
>Not visible on a consumer TV
so it doesn't look how it should lmao

>>10927184
>reading comprehension

>>10920803
>this one game with dithering that isn't blurred means all games are unplayable using component

kay

>>10927174
You don’t have to mod in a SCART port, they are very common in TV’s, especially in Japan where the games were developed.

>>10927184
Only visible on good TV’s, your low-quality TV might not show the same level of detail

>>10927239
>component
He's obviously using scart, brainlet.

>>10926713
We all need to make sacrifices to have our games lookin' good.

>>10927242
>no you don't understand! the devs totally targeted studio grade monitors and not the tvs their consumer base would be using at the time!
>it's SUPPOSED to look like a checkerboard! dithering was never meant to be blended!
Uh huh. Sure thing, friend.

>>10927998
>no you don't understand! the devs totally targeted studio grade monitors
The monitors they were using? Yes.

>>10928063
Even if you wanted to be retarded and pretend production tools are the expected method of consumption, that's not Silent Hill. That's not even Konami.

Name one good reason not to turn off dithering when emulating Silent Hill.

>>10921146
>A TV is a TV
This is the sort of statement that, in a just world, would get someone drawn and quartered.

>>10928073
>Even if you wanted to be retarded and pretend production tools are the expected method of consumption
But staring at high quality monitors all day and seeing the game come together from every angle on those monitors had zero effect on how the game looked?
>that's not Silent Hill. That's not even Konami.
Yeah Konami was very poor and developed on random trash TV's while all their competitors used top of the line equipment. Lol

>>10928145
See
>Even if you wanted to be retarded and pretend production tools are the expected method of consumption
You're still being retarded, and if you're going to ignore facts then there's nothing more to be said.
Enjoy your sharp dithering patterns and screen door vision.

>>10928145
>Yeah Konami was very poor and developed on random trash TV's while all their competitors used top of the line equipment. Lol
Konami is so retarded I could actually believe this, minus the part about being poor

>>10928179
>no argument
Easy win.
>Enjoy your sharp dithering patterns and screen door vision.
Don't fall for every bait image you see posted here poorfag.

>>10928204
>Don't fall for every bait image
>>10925329
>Looks the way it should
lmao

>>10928213
>>>10925329
>>Looks the way it should
Quoting someone else.

>>10928226
>it's not me, i just felt attacked by a post responding to someone else!
Yeah, alright champ.

>>10928235
Just responded to your random retarded post because it's obvious you had no idea 90s devs were staring at high quality monitors with rgb signals all day.

Save up your pesos for 10 years and buy one already, stop the cope.

>>10928245
>you had no idea 90s devs were staring at high quality monitors with rgb signals all day
See
>Even if you wanted to be retarded and pretend production tools are the expected method of consumption
You're still being retarded, and if you're going to ignore facts then there's nothing more to be said.
Enjoy your sharp dithering patterns and screen door vision.

>>10928251
Whatever helps you sleep at night poorfag.

>>10928245
Nigger, it's common knowledge that devs took advantage of RF/Composite dithering on PSX to increase the color bit rate from 15(5) bit to 24(8) bit.
They also used it a lot for faux transparency and other effects.

They used those high quality monitors to edit shit and they had a consumer tube next to them with RF/Composite to see how their game will look to most people.

>>10928254
Oh, you're a collector. Not a player.

>>10928258
The games also look amazing on pvm. Which is why they're worth a ton of money.

>>10928254
>Using Arcade games and DKC which didn't make useage of RF/Composite dithering

>>10928254
>studio monitors have always been prohibitively expensive
>that means the devs expected everyone to use one
You've destroyed your own argument.

>>10928261
Yeah sure but some effects will not look right on non-RF/Composite output and in the case of PSX or Genesis which faked so many colors you miss out on a lot of colors.

That said anything above 300TVL for 240p games is placebo since you get the memeline effect which devs clearly never wanted.
Although of course 300TVL or even 250TVL PVMs do exist

>>10928263
What games you want?

>>10928265
I never said the devs expected everyone to use one. Keep reaching.

>>10928272
See >>10928063

>>10928276
Still not seeing where "everyone" is.

>>10928269
FF on PSX looks like garbage regardless of any cable you use.
That said RF/Composite cable on a low TVL consumer CRT does make these games a bit more forgiving.

Although in general low TVL is better even with RGB/Component.

Top 13 inch consumer tv about 300TVL mayb using Component cable

Bottom 500 line PVM using RGB

>>10928283
Bottom is better.

>>10928280
>i said they targeted it not that they expected it so well erm yeah
Uh huh.

>>10928286
Yes they developed the entire time on high quality monitors and this no doubt had an effect on the games visuals. Doesn't mean the game then becomes unplayably ugly on normal tv's. The games looked good even great on good consumer sets but using high quality dev monitors takes it to another level and thankfully in 2024 this is actually affordable for most of us since these things used to cost 3k+ and now you can buy it on ebay shipped for $400.

So go ahead, buy one and stop coping and clinging to cherry picked trash like OP's pic.

>>10928283
People never seem to mention the type of mask but the shadow? slot? mask on the top TV is probably more important for making console games look “as intended” than most other factors.

>>10928303
>they developed the entire time on high quality monitors and this no doubt had an effect on the games visuals
Yes, that's how they were able to accurately place individual dots. But that's absolutely not what they expected people to play on.
They had to target the most common output method and display. In the case of the PSX, that'd be the cables it shipped with (composite), and a department store consumer grade TV.

>>10928343
>But that's absolutely not what they expected people to play on.
Again, I never said they did. Many great things are reserved for the rich and experiencing these games on these monitors was one of those things. But now it's available to all of us, even you poorfags because I know you're buying stupid shit like a PS5 and FIFA every year.

>>10928361
>i said they targeted it not that they expected it so well erm yeah
Uh huh.

>>10928364
>i said they targeted it not that they expected it
No conflict.

>>10928303
>MX8000
>trash
calm down buddy

this the CRT general now? i dont see another one active

>>10920803
>playing SH1 on PS2
>playing PS1 on PS2

Nigga the PS2 removed the dither.

>>10920803
It depends on the game/console. The ps1 looks better with composite because it smooths over the low poly models/pre-rendered backgrounds, and the games used lots of dithering. For the SNES or PS2, RGB looks better 99% of the time. Composite can look really good with certain TVs though, it varies a lot depending how good the comb filter is.

>>10928838
I have heard PS1 and Saturn look best over composite because of dithering. For my Sega Mega Drive Model 2, I swapped the encoder with a cxa2075 and it looks amazing on composite on a 14 inch CRT. However the geometry and bloom are not as good as a pvm or the fine grain color controls. In terms of a picture though, they're not too far off. I can't tell the difference half the time between RGB SNES and Composite SNES on a good comb filter tv as they both have a slightly blurry output. RGB has slightly richer colors I think.

Composite also is quite unique in that it can produce intermediate colors depending on the tv which are unique and not available with RGB. But it does depend on the TV and the technology. Some older games look great on old tv's with composite and can be oversaturated on a modern CRT and with RGB can be unnaturally bright not allowing for shading and dithering. The NES has no RGB canonical palette and each tv displays it slightly differently and uniquely.

>>10928303
>cherry picked trash like OP's pic
The MX8000 has picture quality close to being on par with a PVM.

>>10928096
Wrong color grading.
Do a comparison screenshot with it enabled, disabled and one scaled 2x and then downsampled to the unscaled resolution.

RGB and component look amazing on a decent CRT.

The CRT is what you need to experience games as devs intended and RGB is the best experience associated with that format.

I am sorry if you cheaped out on your set and are coping with composite.

>>10928269
>Gayest Hits
Uh, yeah. Nice "collection."

My 13 inch consumer Toshiba with mono only composite mogs every piece of shit posted ITT. PVMs are too saturated. The colors look garish and bad.

>>10921151
You buy 10 used and try each one out. If one of them works you hurry up and play whatever games you've been meaning to play on it.
Alternatively you:
>build a pc (or restore an old one you had lying around)
>you put a 15 year old gpu that can output s-video in there
>get a consumer grade crt tv that takes s-video
>install mednafen or retroarch with beetle core (duckstation core won't run on your ancient gpu)
>???
>profit

Now, I have a working ps1, ps2 and ps3 that can all run ps1 cd-rs. The reason I went the emulation route was because I wanted to play the french or german PAL version of Final Fantasy 8, since those translations are more accurate than the english version. However when you play either of those two PAL versions on original hardware (ps1, ps2 OR ps3), the game is stretched and there's no way to fix that. It was distracting to me because everyone looked squashed. This seems to be an issue with SOME PAL region titles, I usually avoid these versions.
You can however easily fix the aspect ratio on the emulator. The last time I emulated ps1 games was more than 10 years ago on psxe and I didn't enjoy it very much, so I felt reluctant to try it.
I recently played a bunch of ps1 games on the emulation setup I described using a dual shock 4 controller. Those include games I beat once every year or two like crash, spyro, spiderman 1 and 2, etc. Frankly, I'd notice I forget I'm playing on an emulator since the games look accurate. The only reminder that I'm emulating is that I have a ps4 controller in my hands.
I've also emulated ps1 on a raspberry pi 3 using composite out, but it's not that good. You can play crash on it, but anything more demanding will either be a bit choppy or have some visual faults. FF8 runs just fine, but it doesn't display the transition in the battle correctly. I don't know if later raspberry pis like 4 or 5 do any better.

>>10929376
gpus with s-video out only output 480i

>>10925053
It looks about the same on a ps1 outputting RGB. I've tried it on several tvs. When it comes to ps1 games, most of them top out at s-video. Composite is fine since those games aren't exactly hd. S-video cleans up the rainbowing effect some people complain about, but frankly, I kind of like that effect. It makes that forcefield bubble thingy in Sonic 1 for the genesis look like a soap bubble, which I think was a desired effect.

>>10929303
I begrudgingly confirm. I have a 14 inch Philips and a 20 inch LG, both low grade consumer models. The Philips in particular makes everything look great because of how good its colors and contrast are. Anything bigger than 21 inch is a bit less bright.

>>10929391
That's true, but it doesn't matter. I played original hardware and the s-video emulation output side by side, as well as on the same tv. Visually they were pretty much identical. I could hardly tell which one was which when I switched channels between them.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't think there's such a thing as "pixel perfect" with s-video or composite. Those signals mostly blend the pixels together.

>>10929423
You must have eye issues if you can't tell the difference between 240p and 480i

>>10929430
It looks about the same on a 20 inch crt. Maybe the emulation looked a bit more "crisp" because of the higher resolution? I don't know. If I walk into the room while one of the two outputs was playing on the tv, I wouldn't be able to immediately point out which one it was.
Unless you're some sort of a visual equivalent of an audiophile (so a videophile then?), I don't think you'd be able to differentiate them either.

>>10920803
Composite and S-video are what retro games were designed for. Not razor sharp pixels shown with RGB. The pixels were meant to blend together. PVMs are a meme created by YouTubers and now the prices of them skyrocketed because of it. Nobody in North America or Japan used PVMs to play games ever. RGBfags are coping because they fell for the meme and it was expensive so they don’t want to tell themselves they wasted money

Lots of weird copes from Americans in this thread that think RGB somehow turns games into crystal clear raw pixels on a CRT

>>10929480
It's poorfats who are playing on a 13in composite from their mom's kitchen from the 90s

Kind of unrelated but any idea why my ps2 (matrix infinity 1.99) wont read ps1 burned cds? It reads cds with ps2 games on them perfectly.

>>10929638
Does the chip even work for PS1? Anyway, you can use mechapwn to play PS1 burns, but I'm pretty sure you have to convert any out-of-region roms to your region or else they won't boot

>>10929376
Convert the Eurofuck versions to NTSC, that should fix it

>>10929638
These kind of modchips were compatible with PSX games but you had to boot it on PSX mode, otherwise, it would see CDrs as PS2 blue discs.

IIRC you had to keep the reset button pressed until the butto lighted up and then press reset again when booting.

>>10929647
You can burn anything PS1 and it will work with Mechapwn, but setting an NTSC region will fuck up vertical alignment for PAL games (can be fixed with homebrew apps).

>>10925056
Maybe in shartland

>>10922452
How the billionaires get meth addicts to attack other poor people

>>10925276
just disable the dither

https://youtu.be/5vsAwewGB2w?t=287

>>10930772
>just have horrible color banding
This would be interesting to do when outputting via emulator that can force 24-bit color depth albeit

>>10927242
>You don’t have to mod in a SCART port, they are very common in TV’s, especially in Japan where the games were developed.

I live in a quaint area of the world called the United States.

>>10930857
Then don’t speak about developer intentions of your ass country don’t even have the same cables as them

>>10930807
I have an original ps1 with the slower gpu and the color banding isn't that bad. It just varies on a game per game basis.

>>10920803
No. This is how it’s supposed to look. RGB Scart ftw!

>>10920964
I wish I had this luck. Had to wait until 2004. But it was worth it. Even dither-filled games I played using component cables, after that. Never played Silent Hill 1 using it though. And I actually never saw a game so filled with dithering before. It's Konami's fault for being so inept at the task.

>>10932187
I understand that your europoor brain is just slow, which is why the PAL standard exists.

>>10930470
I can't teach you that. Come here, challenge the addicts, climb their ranks, then you'll discover.

>>10932302
Wow that country thing really hurt your feelings, guess that explains why you’re so angry at RGB, it because you can’t have it so you blindly shit on it by default like an autist

>>10932225
Brightness is a little high
Also it doesn't look RGB to me

>>10920803
Guess what that excessive "dithering" (not sure thats even the right term) comes from the PS2.
3D from PS1 games is fucked up when played on PS2. And not only Silent Hill. All games suffer from it. It baffles me this issue is not talked about. Some games even have audio glitches.
Oh and yes RGB look miles better than composite but that's a completely diffetent matter. Dear OP zoomster, we used to call what you did an autofrag.

>>10934342
The PS2's output is not significantly different from the PS1's. I played Silent Hill on both consoles earlier this year and the signal looked about the same between the PS1 and PS2.

>>10928254
Show me your DOJ stage 1 full chain lmao zedong

>>10934348
Wrong and wrong

Here is Silent Hill 1 running on PS1 hardware through a Retrotink 5x and being displayed on a 4K tv w/ scanlines.

get your display settings fixed

>>10934371
Based false flagging retrochink hater. That looks absolutely disgusting. What settings did you use to get it to look that bad?

>>10925048
won't that kill the laser super fast?

>>10934371
DON'T answer >>10934625! It's a trap. I know that guy.

>>10934636
No.

>>10934371
It’s not a settings issue
It’s because he’s using a PS2 instead of a PS1
PS2 can’t do the hardware dithering properly

>>10925089
>Only until Snes / MD
N64, my man. A lot of kids had hand me down CRTs in their room or basement or whatever and used RF until N64
But if you have a PS1 you used composite, with a VCR if need be.

I got it for ~13 bucks :)
Don't know if I'll go for the other one or not.

>>10920803
>live in PAL territory
>have to choose between running ps1 through RGB or only being able to play 50hz games
yeah it's an easy decision.

>>10936096
Depends on the TV I have a late 90s Phillips CRT that is black and white when playing NTSC games through composite but my no-name brand early 2000s CRT that can do full colour NTSC composite

>>10936101
I've not found a TV made mid-late 90s where I live that can't do NTSC composite.

>>10936046
Should have just got both dude.

>>10934342
>>10934359
>>10935043
The dithering in SH1 is pretty much the same on PS1 and PS2, I dunno where you’re seeing the difference. There might be a tiny difference in the fog and flashlight, but it’s minuscule as fuck and doesn’t change the fact that PS1 still shows a fuckton of dithering with SH1

>>10936513
nah it's fucked

idk is this hill REALLY silent? Like, can I sleep until 12:00pm on a weekday and not be awakened by noises on the street? I doubt it.

>>10936932
tbdesu the mist is preeetty quiet and there isn’t much going on aside from the occasional air raid siren, common in old small towns

>>10936123
I may still yet.