/vr/ - Retro Games

>>10898916
I think they are charming action-adventure games but playing them can be pretty tedious and boring at times, yeah. All these years later I came to the conclusion that OoT really is the best 3D Zelda. At least gameplay-wise

>>10898947
I'm definitely not saying they are bad games. I know people playing for the first time and/or children could probably ignore these issues. But I definitely don't find them easy to pick up. Its like the game is getting in its own way. In WW I at least admire the visuals during down time but in TP Im just driven to such a malaise. Even though I think a lot of things in TP are cool and I appreciate the design of many things, the way they implemented the visuals and character design are incredibly uninspiring. Links eyes look like he has glaucoma in some spots.

OoT is the best one for me. You're right in there no messing around and the game just feels fun to play for me. I use to really like MM even more than OoT but its clear to me which one is more polished and offers a more complete experience.

>>10898961
>>10898916
I think Zelda is a little like Pokemon and Animal Crossing. Outside of diehard fans of the series they don't expect most people to play more than one or two of them and typically it's the first or second game they play that tends to stick as the "best". It's a series that's easy by design because it's aimed primarily to be enjoyed by all ages including fairly young players. Which is a real strength of the series overall and why it's remained popular for so long but it does lead to them being pretty repetitive.

>>10898989
I dont know. My first game was Oracle of seasons and my second was TP

>>10898916
They are games for children, and Nintendo assumed that kids need a lot of handholding.

>>10898916
Aonuma is a drooling retard so he thinks all game players are too.

>>10898947
No. I HATE OOT.
Picture related. The new OoT inventory as designed by me.

>>10899009
treat B and R button like regular button for item
just have golden scale or some other item give you infinite breath

>>10899009
Why is the ocarina on the equipment screen? why not with the rest of the items?

>>10899036
Because its used constantly and so you never have to go to the quest subscreen to check what a song is.

>>10899009
>>10899035
What should gerudo training ground or the great faries give then? raises an interesting question. Doing and finding those things are fun, but the rewards are pointless.
But I think thats an issue 3D zelda games have had forever

>>10899009
I like OoT a lot and I think its fun to speculate on how and where you would trim fat.
I always found it weird how zelda tells you basically the same thing the deku tree does immediately after he just did.
Also its weird that zelda gives you a letter to open the gate to death mountain, especially since you learn zelda's lullaby right after. That seems like a waste of time and a waste of making that item. in fact the lullaby should open death mountain since you're proving you know zelda but also its a good tutorial for what you have to do with darunia right after too.

Also holding A+B should force the text box to scroll very fast all the way to the end for every single text in the game.

>>10898916
lmao, wait until you get to Skyward Sword, even the HD remaster is almost as handhold-y as fucking Okami, the fairy companion will literally interrupt your gameplay with a full on cutscene just to tell you to keep walking down the straight corridor to the objective that's already marked on your map. It's mind boggling, I don't even get the logic of this kind of design. Fine, you consider your players to be drooling retards, but why the fuck are you assuming they have the patience for all these endless tutorial walls of text?

>>10899295
It really probably is aonuma's fault

https://news.denfaminicogamer.jp/english/170609b/3
>Aonuma: So, one of the interviewers who interviewed me on the recommendation of Mr. Kotabe was Mr. Shigeru Miyamoto. At the time of the interview, I showed him the artwork that I did during university, and Mr. Miyamoto liked them. That’s how I joined Nintendo in 1998.

>I thought I would be located in product package design or something like that. But I was placed in a game manufacturing department. I knew nothing about the game, so I had to ask my girlfriend what games Nintendo had made. But I didn’t even clear the “Mario” that I borrowed her and she was making fun of me saying, “You have slow reflexes.”

>And then she gave me “DQ”(Dragon Quest) and this time she made sure I played it right. I stayed up all night to play it and she kept by my side the whole time, coaching me like, “You need to go south five steps" and "Now go to the east four steps".

>>10898916
Remember when Miyamoto apologized for making the Water Temple too hard? That was the warning flare.

>>10899467
To be fair, everyone bitched about it, what was the man gonna do

>>10899417
The fact the this guy is in charge of the most important game franchise in history is so bizarre.

>>10899417
This explains everything.

>>10898916
I wish they just held majoras mask for a year and moved it to gamecube and made it bigger.

WW
>Unfinished
>Worst dungeons in the series
>So easy it makes Mario games look difficult
>Terrible pacing
>Game starts with a mandatory stealth mission
>Game ends with a mandatory fetch quest
>All style and no substance
TP
>5 hr tutorial
>bug hunting
>wolf sections
>Terrible pacing
>Ganondorf was behind it all!
>Just as easy as Wind Waker
>Dull ugly version of OoT
>Terrible Anime story
>Useless items
>Dungeons are glorified set pieces
>Overworld is somehow worse than the N64 games.
People give Skyward Sword shit but these games were bad too.

>>10899682
MM should have either been a straight up expansion to OoT, or otherwise built for the next console. It's crippled by being a rushed ROM data repurposing that they had to shit out a game for.

>>10899903
>Dull ugly version of OoT
This also describes Wind Waker

>>10899467
It was just tedious for iron boots and that one key under a block. But most people are dumb so they compressed these frustrations with the word hard

>>10899929
True.

>>10899417
>>10899397
>series takes a notable downturn as he gains power
>still hailed and praised as Mr. Zelda
Genuinely baffling that he gets hero worshipped and then the fan favorite games are always lttp out mm la

>>10898916
twilight princess was always a terrible game, and wind waker is one of the best LoZ games ever made(low bar). not very comparable.

>>10899935
>and that one key under a block
AHHHHH it took me MONTHS as a kid to finally realize there was a hole there!

>>10899948
Ok. Thank you for your contribution.

>>10899009
>>10899035
Gay and retarded. Having all of the swords, shields, tunics and boots on one screen makes more sense and is more aesthetically coherent. If you're really such a shitter that having to switch the boots on and off ~10 times for one dungeon was painful, then here's a 200 IQ idea: keep everything exactly as it already was but let you map equipment items to the d-pad. Problem solved.

Twilight Princess is one of the greatest cases of wasted potential in video game history. That game's Hyrule Field was legitimately beautiful, it had awesome music, great dungeons and super snappy controls/combat. But they weren't happy with that. They needed to fuck it all up with the furfaggotry. They could have, literally, done less work and made a better game. Just take the same game, remove all of the gay wolf shit, and you've now solved 80% of the game's problems. Sure, it's too linear and a few items are underused and some of the character designs border on eldritch abominatiom territory, but this is all small stuff compared to the wolf shit.

I bought TP at release in 2006. I bought the GC version and the WiiU version later. I've even emulated it. Every single time, I get about 75% of the way through the game and then drop it, because I feel unironically fatigued. By the time you actually get to the "good part", you've been raped and beaten by the faggot wolf segments so many times that you don't even have the will to continue. At least, I never do. If you actually manage to see this shit to the end, kudos to you. I don't have it in me. It sucks, because every few years I get these rose-tinted memories in my head of, "Oh man... remember TP? Those rolling green hills, that epic music... it's like Zelda LotR... I need to go back, it'll be better this time...", and it never is. It's too exhausting.

>>10900682
Anon we don't need the equipment screen at all

>>10900725
>bro you don't need the equipment screen just get rid of the ice arrows and have no way to switch back to the regular boots and kokiri tunic haha

>>10900682
>keep everything exactly as it already was but let you map equipment items to the d-pad
This is what Ship of Harkinian does.

>>10900725
There should be more reasons to use the equipment screen to justify it, yes. But having the ability to setup a loadout for Link that is independent of your C items is a thing that would be more interesting to take advantage of than to get rid of.

TP's artistic style is good

>>10898998
Yeah it's not to say that some people who really click with the series might get hooked and want to play most or all of them. But the series is designed so any game can be someone's first with no need of an introduction and the next game (usually) doesn't link directly. A lot of Nintendo franchises are like that and it works well for them

These games are fine. I'm just always surprised by the extremely high ratings they got. For what exactly? Not graphics, not combat, not the puzzles. always felt they never excelled at anything

>>10900741
Whatever.
>>10900767
Nah equipment screen is dumb

Reminder that the Wii version of TP is a fucking hack job and if you play this game at all, play the GCN version.
>GCN version has free camera control thanks to the C-stick, Wii doesn't
>Link has moves on GCN that are missing on Wii like being able to manually backflip off your horse and charge your sword spins
>Wii version has a few items with broken functionality like the boomerang that you can throw even while moving on GCN but Wii makes you stop in place first
>the entire world in Wii version was mirrored, so the sun sets in the wrong direction, everyone except Link is left-handed, etc.
>Wii version has "three" item slots vs gamecube's two, except you can't actually use the items assigned to these slots, you assign them to the d-pad and then have to individually assign them to the B button to use, meaning there's actually more like 1 usable slot
>GCN has first person aiming ala Ocarina of Time instead of gay cursor aiming
>Wii version has an annoying pointer on the screen at all times, and for some reason it's a fairy despite Link not even having a fairy in this game
>the controls are literally waggle, and you have to shake the remote every time you want to do a simple sword swing
...but hey, at least the Wii version has shitty 16 bit sound effects that play out of the remote and uhh """widescreen""" support (that's only anamorphic so it's just a stretched image anyway). What a piece of fucking shit.

>>10899009
kek autism is a powerful drug

>>10899929
False.

>>10898916
>Why did they shoot themselves in the foot by treating you like a drooling retard for these games?
They are following the example set by OOT

>>10901258
The game is dull and the characters are ugly.

>>10901330
Wind Waker looks cool at least. But yeah it's another Zelda and boring even for that series.p8s0

Liking WW graphics more than TP is such a garbage take.
>LE HECKIN TIMELESS CEL SHADING
Always looked like shit and always will. I don't give a fuck about muh low res textures or whatever garbage you cretins will spout against TP, this is what Hyrule is supposed to look like.

>>10899916
yeah but it's still the best zelda

>>10901671
>best zelda is the one with a gay nanny timer, 4 dungeons and a bunch of tranny masks
yeah, no

>>10901572
Thanks for the update bud

>>10901572
this looks like shit

>>10901572
Wow what a beautiful chesd board with cut-out looking trees you have there. I suppose it at least does look better than the WW trash but man that looks both bland and ugly as fuck.

>>10901868
I wish both of you would be quiet. Fuckin Zelda fans

>>10901416
It doesn't look cool at all.

>>10901883
I am in no way a fan of Zelda lol. I think it's one of the most boring series ever.

>>10901890
To each their own. I don't love it, but it's way better than TP which looks so generic it's almost comical. Add the terrible tiling and that's it.

>>10901897
Cool dude I don't get the compulsion you have this is boring

>>10901868
>cut-out looking trees you have there
it's almost like the game is 18 years old running on 23 year old hardware. how do retards like you even end up here?

>>10901929
Oh shut up both of you

>>10901934
>Oh shut up both of you
back to redd*t

>>10901935
You're too old for this man

>>10898916
Nintendo games are not made for adults.

>>10901929
Hey man I'm just responding to this
>I don't give a fuck about muh low res textures or whatever garbage you cretins will spout against TP, this is what Hyrule is supposed to look like.

And I think it's funny that Hyrule is supposed to look like a blocky mega generic fantasy ruin.

>>10901940
aren't we all?

>>10901967
>a blocky mega generic fantasy ruin
Nothing grinds my gears worse than gays who get upset over things being "generic". You know what's "generic"? Blue sky, green grass, trees. Real life. I still love looking at all of these things every single day I wake up. You aren't cool or special for preferring a shitty rejected Miyazaki art style. You're just a faggot.

>>10902019
Even Miyazaki doesn't make his people badly drawn gorillas.
>oops I ran out of paper ah well nobody will notice the legs

>>10901948
If you can't beat NES games you can't say this.

>>10902032
why is every character design in WW vaguely homosexual?

>>10902036
anon, that WW character posted is an actual homosexual. don't think that logic works.

>that time my mom came in my room, saw me playing Wind Waker with the GBA connected for the tingle tuner and got mad because "this video game stuff has gotten out of hand, you're playing two games at once"

>>10902171
>I'm just p-playing with my....T-tingle tuner, mom..."

>>10902019
I'm far from upset about it, but it looks boring as fuck. Wind Waker isn't amazing but at least looked a little interesting.

>>10902896
Pictured: interesting

/vr/edditors will look you dead in the eye and try to convince you that Wind Waker and Twilight Princess are bad games while holding up Ocarina as some sort of flawless classic.

>>10902896
>le heckin interesting!!!!!!
i don't get people like you. how is a shitty cartoonish art style "interesting"? it's flat and dull, meanwhile TP looks like a nice park on a sunny day. if you can't appreciate that because it isn't """interesting""" you might just be a retard. i bet you have a dragon dildo collection because you love """interesting""" things.

>>10901929
This board was much less retarded before the 6th gen zoomers flooded in.

>>10898916
>But then the dungeons are braindead. The triforce hunt was fun.
This is how I know you're just a troll. The triforce hunt was the most absolute braindead thing imaginable. Pure, shameless filler to make up for the fact they cut two dungeons.
>And can SOMEBODY MAKE THE TEXT GO FASTER IN THESE GAMES. FUCK.
Press B instead of A and it loads the whole textbox at once.

If you're going to make a troll thread, at least do your homeowork, faggot.

>>10903174
i used to think rule change wasn't so bad, at first it seemed like the same old crew dicking around, except now we got to talk about a few more games. over the last 2 years though, things have become unbearable, and i can tell that a lot of the oldheads have left and been replaced with 21 year old kids posting video essay opinions and bait threads. i never thought i'd miss the days of babbage's gramps, but here we are. mods actively allow this stuff to persist for some reason, but will militantly enforce the rules on any tongue in cheek comment they don't like. they hand out 30 day global bans for typing the word "floigan". i don't even know why i'm still here. this place is a dumpster fire.

>>10903194
>except now we got to talk about a few more games
I was pretty glad about this because I wanted to discuss some early-mid 2000s classics with people who actually care about video games even before the rule change. I don't think the rule change has anything to do with /v/tards flooding in though, it's just that the quality of their board has fallen so low even they got tired of their own spam and came here. But it takes time to get rid of your old habits so that's why there's so much obnoxious shitposting

>>10903220
>I don't think the rule change has anything to do with /v/tards flooding in though
It definitely did. When there were no 6th gen games to talk about, /v/tards would get bored and leave.

>>10903170
I can't describe to you why a unique art style is more interesting than an uncanny valley attempt at realism. If the appeal of art is lost on you I can't help with that and have little interest in trying. Not that realism can't look good, but this >>10901868 looks terrible.

>>10903194
I have to agree with this. I even supported the change back then over the proposed /v2k/ but wow I regret it now. The board is unrecognizable at this point.

>>10898916
Your first paragraph establishes you are writing about how the game is tuned for idiot's. You go on tangents about unrelated things like the text scroll speed typing like you are filled with intrusive thoughts and uncomposed. Look up how to write an essay, what you have is a 6 sentence or do essay that would not receive a passing mark in 6th grade.

>>10901572
only the n64 and ps1 can get away with repeating textures looking charming

>>10903391
>I can't describe to you why a unique art style is more interesting
It isn't unique at all, it's the most generic cel-shaded Disney tier cartoon garbage you can muster, and you can't explain why it's interesting because it isn't, and you just want to fellate yourself for having superior tastes, when in reality the only taste you have is the cum in your mouth.
>uncanny valley
Reddit virtue signaling.
>Not that realism can't look good, but this >>10901868 # looks terrible
What looks "terrible" about this exactly? Nice landscapes and a blue and silver castle in the background? That's "terrible" to you? Oh right, the game is 20 years old and has some repeated textures (that you wouldn't even notice on real hardware because this is a fucking upresed emu screenshot), so this apparently makes it "terrible". You deserve to be beaten to death with a clawed hammer you shitbrained nigger. It's a supreme tragedy of life that I have to share the same planet with an 70 IQ oxygen vaccum like you who looks at this and thinks it's "terrible". What a wretched little creature you are.

>>10903550
>you just want to fellate yourself for having superior tastes, when in reality the only taste you have is the cum in your mouth.

>>10900710
The furfaggotory is the only reason people even still talk about this game. Otherwise itd be just another forgotten Zelda title. The faggot wolf sections sold that game and 100% the only reason why Zelda survived that time and didnt get fucking dropped by Nintendo

>>10903567
The promise of a return to OoT was what sold the game, the furfaggotry was just what kept the triforce tattoo blue hairs engaged.

>>10903550
looks like shit lol

>>10903591
no u

>>10902913
kek

>>10903550
Sorry, when you started putting interesting around multiple quotation marks and talking like an upset child I lost all interest in even trying to explain it to you. Enjoy the ugliness TP if you like, I can't care less.

>>10903814
good morning sir

WW was one of the most unique Zelda experiences I've played, it's a really cool and interesting take. The navigation was super fun but at times the world felt kind of empty, but despite this I remember being totally engrossed by the world.
TP is a weird one for me because it came out around the time I stopped playing console games and started playing computer games. It's also the last game I remember renting from blockbuster. It was really cool but I just couldn't get into it, it didn't even really feel like a Zelda game. I returned it and never played it again, but i've been tempted to emulate it and give it another chance.

>>10901187
I unironically liked waggle controls

Was /vr/ always filled with jaded retards calling everything trash and boring? Last time I browsed there was like 5y ago and I don't remember it being this bad, holy shit. I hate zoomers so much.

>>10904064
you also like pulling dicks so there cold be a correlation

>>10904068
My theory is that 4chan is a negative energy conduit that produces loosh for aliens and /vr/ was the only board that produced somewhat positive energy so they needed to ruin it by letting a sea of broccoli heads in, since anyone born after 2000 inherently has no soul and ruins anything they touch.

>>10904068
Zelda threads are really bad about this for some reason as people get REALLY defensive about their personal favorite title in the series (usually Ocarina) and relentlessly trash all the other games.

>>10898916
Man, gotta disagree. WW is my favorite Zelda game and it's because they give you a lot of freedom. What I would've changed in the GCN version would've been faster sailing and more challenging dungeons (cuz I agree the dungeons aren't the hardest in the series). But the gameplay, aesthetic, story and characters is what makes that game shine, imo. Again, I just wish the difficulty was higher.

As for Twilight Princess, I did enjoy it a lot. Though, there's some nostalgia involved in that opinion. It's not my favorite, the intro is really long nor is it really that ambitious but I still had a lot of fun in the grand scheme of things

>>10904068
/v/s had this energy for awhile but it's getting worse. It feels like people just want to bring down things that are well liked to prop up shitty games

>>10900710
I think the way they used the wolf power was the problem, not the furfaggotry itself. Because I thought the Ganon vs. Wolf battle was cool as fuck. It really was annoying to have an obligatory fetch quest every fucking time you turned into a wolf, it just really baffles me that if they were able to make the Ganon battle, why the hell were the rest of the wolf parts so tedious?

>>10901572
Any sort of attempt for original artstyle will mog LE HECKIN REALISTIC 5D GRAPHICS any day, faggot. And that's acknowledging that WW looks like shit. Cope

>>10904331
>TP
>"realistic graphics"

>>10904331
>i'll take something i admit looks like shit over realism any day
so basically you just want to feel special? you sound like a bit of a retard, bud.

>>10899417
On a side note, wholesome gamer gf.

>>10904327
Not him but I agree the wolf parts were tedious. Having to kill those shadow monsters all at the same time always felt a bit clunky.

>>10904229
>they give you a lot of freedom
You can't even do most things out of order. You can't even deviate from the path to the first couple of dungeons.

>>10904102
I get that waggle overstayed its welcome, but it was just legitimately cool to be able to swing the remote and have link swing his sword in game.

>>10904835
no faggot, it was not "legitimately cool", it was gay and retarded. you want to pretend it was some VR type shit where the game tracked your sword movement and positioning, but it wasn't. it was literally just shaking the remote to trigger an input that could've (and was, on the GC version) been triggered by a simple button press.

>>10904362
Is there any headcanon in which these guys aren't actually gay?

>>10904362
Accurate depiction of you-know-what

>>10904915
>fyer and falbi were actually a floigan reference all along
bros...

>>10904362
I feel like there's a hidden message in their differing degrees of belly hair.

>>10899295
>why are they assuming
because
you
kept
buying
them

>>10904908
I agree with him more than you. It would have been better with more refinement but was more fun than button pressing.

>>10905742
>it was more fun waving a remote around every time you need to attack for a 50 hour game
you should be gassed, seriously

>>10905983
I'm sorry that having to move your lardy body sounds like torture to you lol.

>>10904068
It's definitely gotten worse. Beginning of the end was the power-tripping jannie that was banning anyone for wrong opinions in 2021. They have been trying to turn this into /v/ 2.0 within the last year, weirdly enough around the same time a lot of people stop posting on /v/ after bear sex...

>>10906000
why do you talk like a woman?

>>10900710
It was more than the wolf shit. The wolf segments were the nail in the coffin, but the game's biggest sin is being too sterile. They took the OoT formula and streamlined it to the point where there was no sense of adventure left.

In OoT, after you leave Kokiri Forest, a good 60% of the world is open to you immediately. You can get like 20+ skulltulas, several heartpieces, 2 bottles the hylian shield, and a bunch of other shit before even speaking to zelda. Later on, once you get the master Sword and hookshot, there are 3-4 dungeons you can beat at any time. There were tons of mini-games/sidequests and they were almost all available immediately. When you'd explore, you had a good expectation of something meaningful, like the hylian shield in the graveyard, the fairy fountain spells, the fire arrows etc., which were all optional.

TP was the exact opposite. You had no freedom whatsoever. You were funneled from one setpiece to the next, and there was 0 exploration or non-linearity in between, aside from grottos and caves that every single time, without fail, only had 50-100 rupees or a heart piece inside them. Every item you have, the game leads you too. Nothing is optional, nothing can be done out of order, there is no adventure to be had. You're basically just watching a shitty ghibli movie.

>>10904187
Ocarina is genuinely that much better than the rest of the series though. It's not even that there aren't other great Zelda games, but it's just at such an enormously greater level of excellence, while the actually bad titles are so horrible and full of awful crap you can't help but make these distinctions.

>>10906214
This

>>10906129
I agree 100%. Also, it's a pretty small complaint in the grand scheme of things, but another thing I hated was how shitty the cinematography was. Go watch the cutscene in OoT where Link and Zelda meet in the garden, and just watch how the camera pans around, frames them through the flowers, etc. It was Hollywood tier cinematography in a fucking N64 game. That game had stellar visual direction for the cutscenes. TP on the other hand had cinematography so bad that sometimes it actually comes across as satire. I especially love the part where you finish the first tears of light quest, you're warped to the ordon spring, and suddenly Link is wearing the hero's clothes with no explanation at all other than "uhhh you're the hero so you have his clothes now", then the fucking spirit just says "Link, you are the CHOSEN HERO" and the camera does this super awkward DUN... DUN... DUNNN diagonal shot that zooms in on Link's face and then there's just dead silence. Same with the Master Sword, you pull it out of the stone and then there's a brief "epic" diddly and then just a shot of Midna whincing and then "I guess you have the sword now, cool, let's go". I'm not even going to try to tackle that bullshit retarded scene with the 100 falling white-eyed Illias and the random dark Links, which was probably the most pretentious thing I've ever seen in a video game.

>>10906214
This. Childhood is falling for the journalistic take that Zelda as a series is flawless, adulthood is realizing there's only a few good games and the rest are average/mediocre (the good ones being Link's Awakening, Ocarina of Time, and Majora's Mask).

>>10906273
A huge difference between OoT and most of the other games it how clear it is how much thought was put into, not just the cutscenes, but the very landscape and environments so that they are consistently presented to you in well framed ways, even when you're freely exploring. Like, you can see that Hyrule Field looks good, expansive, and yet also clean and without too much clutter that would get in the way of you seeing the form of the landscape as it rises and dips, and gives you just enough glimpse of environments beyond the field itself to see that there's a wider world still, but not enough to spoil the sense that these parts are distinct and distant. Same is true of Death Mountain and so many of the other scenes, but in distinct and different ways in each case.

>>10906296
I absolutely don't trust people who are like "well, each Zelda game is consistently high quality, there's enough good in each, and that's why the series is great ^_^".

It's like no, Zelda is great because it's most excellent qualities stand out incredibly in its best games, there is nothing else that simultaneously gives the same sense of grand adventure, while at the same time being so highly intimate, intricate and dynamically interactive. The kind of people who are satisfied by every game that shoves them into a bunch of dungeons in sequence and has them hit a bunch of switches in every other room with a new gadget are such that I barely consider them fans of Zelda, as far as I'm concerned they only like the idea of Zelda and reduced to its most basic elements, and necessarily fail to see it's actual brilliance.

>>10906305
I remember awhile back, some anon posted a simple webm of Link running through Zora's River and pointed out just how flawless the camera AI was. I had never even thought about it before, because the camera work is so good that you take it for granted, but the way you move through the world and the game perfectly frames every scene is extremely impressive. I actually find myself missing OoT's camera in some of the later games despite them having free camera control. It was just that good.

>>10906296
The real redpill is lamenting at what the series could have been instead of an ultra generic mid-fantasy adventure.

>>10906315
>I absolutely don't trust people who are like "well, each Zelda game is consistently high quality, there's enough good in each, and that's why the series is great ^_^".
Those people are bandwagoners, the kind who've played a few of the games one single time each and still claim Zelda as their "favorite series". The kind of people that get triforce tattoos and do cosplay. I post on ZeldaUniverse once in awhile and absolutely any information I share is like some grand revelation to these people. "You can play the dungeons in OoT out of order? Wow, I'll have to try that next time after I finish TotK!", and I'm sure those same types would say "duuude, OoT is like, my favorite game ever", when even someone with a cursory knowledge of the series would know this shit. The Zelda games are of a consistently high enough production value to illicit the reactions you're talking about, but you're right, there are only a few that are legitimately great.

>>10906324
>generic generic generic
I'll take generic fantasy with muh grass and goblins over your bizzaro world clown shoe fantasies any day you dumb faggot

>>10906331
That's nice for you. Some of us prefer games that don't look like ass.

>>10906328
My old Zelda Universe account login from actual decades ago still actually works. I'd use it to post, but I have no idea how people there would react to me given what I've done and contributed to the community in total at this point.

>>10906368
They probably wouldn't react at all because the site is half dead and the part that's still alive is a bunch of bisexual women and pedo types posting in threads like "What was the last thing you ate?", meanwhile the classic zelda board gets maybe 1-2 posts a day at best. The whole site is filled with inaufferable faggots who know literally nothing about the games.

>>10906364
>Some of us prefer games that don't look like ass.
But you do, you like gay looking shit instead of based generic high fantasy which is timeless and peak aesthetic. I bet you fucking love trash like Avatar.

>>10906296
>probably
I'd consider Zelda 2 and Link to the Past to be good as well.

So now it's a competition of who can be the truest and most superior fan?
OoT still remains my favorite Zelda game to this day but that doesn't prevent me from appreciating many things from the games which came after it. Desecrating the rest of the franchise and anyone who dares to like anything but OoT in attempt to prop yourself up shows how little character you possess. Pretty ironic considering we're talking about a franchise meant to symbolize the Hero's Journey.

>>10906423
embarassingly pseudo-intellectual post. you aren't smart, wise or empathetic for hoovering turds into your mouth like the good consumer you are. never post again.

>>10906423
>"desecrating" a mass media franchise
>muh hero's journey

>>10906432
You know I'm right and non-response won't make you less affected.

>>10906441
>/tv/-tier reaction image
Don't have you a board to go back to?

>>10906443
a non-response is saying "you know i'm right". you can masturbate your ego as much as you want, it won't change the fact that you're a low-wit unironic redditor trying to "appreciate" small glimmers of good game design in bad games and then pretend you're wiser for it. you are, literally, the very type of person you claim to take issue with and you're too stupid to realize it.

>>10906462
>you can masturbate your ego as much as you want
But this is literally what you've been doing (and changing your typing style won't hide that) anon, making objective statements about who you consider to be worthy to be called a fan or not according to your own subjective standards. Are you even aware of it?
>bad games
According to whom? You again?

>>10906476
you've said a lot here, but the gist of it is that you wish somebody would suck your dick for being a centrist nice guy with majority view opinions.
>s-samefag
de facto death knell of losing a 4chins argument. good day.

>>10906476
>tfw every single sentence of this post is a no u
Take a break bro

>>10906484
>>10906490
If I wanted recognition I'd use a non-anonymous board.
We both know, at least stand for what you're saying.

Treating players like they're idiots goes back further than you remember.

>>10906504
t. Windwaker fan with a dragon dildo collection who owns Avatar on Blu-Ray

>>10906423
>So now it's a competition of who can be the truest and most superior fan?

That's every Zelda thread, you're still surprised?

>>10906508
This game was spooky as shit as a kid.

>>10898916
>Why
Aonuma

>>10906420
In terms of raw superiority of the game design, Zelda 1 stands alone.

>>10907049
OoT was the perfection of Zelda 1's formula. The two games are much more similar than you might realize. It's easy to write off OoT as being less open than Z1 on the basis of it having a heavier focus on story, but this was balanced by a greater number of potential ways to play the game through sidequests and dungeon orders. The problem with Z1 is that it's almost too open, because you can immediately go to almost anywhere you want, but there's no dangling carrot to push you forward. OoT struck the perfect balance between freedom and guidance. Z1 boils down to combat and a repetitive use of the same 2-3 items to unlock the secrets its the world, while OoT incorporated many new elements relating to 3D space, character dialogue and a vastly larger number of item interactions. This will be a terribly unpopular opinion, but I actually think OoT is the closest we ever got to a real Z1 in 3D, and the revionist history propogated by zoomers who apply the very restrictive conventions of later Zelda titles like TP to OoT have skewed this truth.

>>10907395
I actually prefer Zelda 1's combat and using a handful of tools to solve all your problems. OoT and a lot of other Zelda games suffer from introducing items that have pretty much one use and then you forget about it. The Megaton hammer in OoT is a good example of this.

>>10907421
>OoT and a lot of other Zelda games suffer from introducing items that have pretty much one use and then you forget about it. The Megaton hammer in OoT is a good example of this.
This is what I was addressing when I said that views of conventions from later games get retroactively applied to OoT. There are a ton of items in TP, WW or some of the handheld titles that apply to what you're saying, but this isn't true for OoT. The Megaton Hammer is by far one of the least useful items in the game (which is why you no doubt singled it out), and it's still vastly more useful than most items from later Zelda titles, and even some of the items from Z1 (such as the ladder, which has far fewer uses than OoT's hammer). Outside of using it in the Fore Temple, it has optional uses in other dungeons (such as the switch to open the optional shortcut in Spirit Temple), it can break certsin boulders that bombs can't, it can flip Tektites and Torch Slugs over to disable them, it can knock Walltulas off walls/vines, and most importantly, it's the only main weapon you have during the first half of fighting Ganon (when you lose the master sword) if you don't have the Biggoron's Sword. That amount of utility is not comparable to some of the bullshit items from later games like TP's dominion rod.

>>10907443
Funny you bring up the stepladder, I actually consider it to be one of the better items in Zelda 1: You use it automatically and it allows for more freedom in the dungeons. I'm also aware of the extra utility offered from the megaton hammer but flipping tektites is more of a fun easter egg. The slug flipping is useful though, I can't recall if deku nuts can disable those little shits or not.

and the less said about TP's inventory, the better. It's probably the most egregious example of items that're used once or twice before being discarded. The ball and chain is cool as fuck though.

>>10907443
>The Megaton Hammer is by far one of the least useful items in the game (which is why you no doubt singled it out), and it's still vastly more useful than most items from later Zelda titles, [...]
Items-wise, SS was a big improvement over TP. I would even argue that it's on the same level as OoT in this regards.

I want to unmake my own thread. I haven't posted once since the OP. I forgot how bad Zelda fans are. I feel bad for lowering the quality of /vr/

>>10907509
>I feel bad for lowering the quality of /vr/
No you don't. Now fuck off we're talking about Zelda items here.

>>10907513
You're being mean to me.

>>10907509
Personally I was delighted to realize the degree to which Zelda fandom is actually just OoT fandom and they shit on other Zeldas just as much. The autism is intense. The comedy is intense.

>>10907509
Well OP to answer your question, FF is a good example. 13 started catering to normalfags being a moviegeam with tutorials out the ass and then the rest goes downhill from there.

>>10907473
>Funny you bring up the stepladder, I actually consider it to be one of the better items in Zelda 1: You use it automatically and it allows for more freedom in the dungeons
Sure, but it's little more than a passive item providing additional traversable tiles. It has no functionality outside of this. The hammer provides additional ways to navigate areas as well, while also providing combat and exploration utilities, on top of fun things like flipping enemies. Again, this is also one of the least useful items in the game, and OoT has many more items in general.

>>10907513
based, OP (aka some fag pretending to be OP) has big gay

>>10907395
>The two games are much more similar than you might realize
No, trust me, they are fucking not. Barely the same at all. God damn where do you retards come from? The different emphasis on combat alone makes it massively different.

>It's easy to write off OoT as being less open than Z1 on the basis of it having a heavier focus on story,
I said The Legend of Zelda (NES) has superior game design. Not that it was more open (it is, proportionally, but that's not relevant)

>vastly larger number of item interactions.
So fucking what? I said The Legend of Zelda (NES) has superior game design. And by that I mean timeless game design not zoomerpseud ""game design"" where you whine about artificial difficulty and other bullshit like that. Here's a great example:

1. In the LoZ1, a core mechanic is that you can use bombs to blow holes in dungeon walls. If there's a room on the other side and the wall is not reinforced a permanent door between the rooms is opened. This is a fundamental mechanic, used in every dungeon in the entire game. The player has 4 entire (combat-filled) dungeons where this mechanic is present and can be discovered independently to gain advantage, but is not required to progress until level 5. (And iirc, 4 is the first one with a reinforced wall, that is in Level 1-3, if the map says there's a room on the other side of a wall, there's 100% chance a bomb will work)

2. In OoT, you get stuck in a room until you figure out that you can burn spiderwebs with your deku torch. Then you barely ever use that mechanic again. It's just a gimmick to make the world feel interactive. There's no actual game beyond "guess how the dev implemented a one-off mechanic."

>>10907587
>And by that I mean timeless game design not zoomerpseud ""game design""

Reading bizarro shit like this makes these threads worth it.

>>10908296
I can kinda see what he means, he's just being really surly about it.

>>10908305
I think that's what's so funny is getting surly over Zelda games of all things. It feels like an impassioned rant about how Disney's Tarzan is cinema gold while Lion King is pathetic trash or something like that.

>>10907587
You packed a lot of butthurt into this redditspaced reply. The issue seems to stem from you not knowing enough about OoT (just like you thought the Megaton Hammer was only used in one dungeon), meanwhile putting Z1 on a pedestal. I have news for you jabroni, Z1 is a shit game. It was fine in 1986, but it doesn't begin to compare to OoT. Saying it has superior game design is laughable -- 75% of the content in the game is locked behind randomly bombing and burning squares of the map over and over hoping to uncover a secret. That is shit fucking design. I love how you try to pull this little reach around by adjusting your glasses and saying "UHH WELL ACKSHUALLY A CORE MECHANIC IS USING THIS ONE ITEM IN EVERY DUNGEON LOL". That's gay and retarded and you know it. What you're accusing OoT of using bombs for is what Z1 uses almost every fucking item in the game for, which is: an arbitrary key. I know you're going to flick your wrist and come at me with this "b-but the bombs let you do the le heckin non-linearitys!!!!" which doesn't matter, because A) it's still shit and boring to use the same item in the same way in every area of the game (thereby negating the mystery, strategization and "actual game" part you want to pretend Z1 has), and B) you're once again neglecting to consider the myriad non-linear elements OoT has that Z1 doesn't, like actual quests, items with more than one use, on top of dungeons you can play out of order and a much larger world.

You have this funny idea in your head that Z1 is this grand adventure with limitless options, that requires nerves of steel and deep levels of strategy and observation to conquer. Here's what Z1 actually is: a shitty little NES game with three colors (piss yellow, poop brown and baby poop green), where you wander around using the same two items to burn bushes and bombs walls in hopes of finding an entrance to a dungeon (wherein you bomb more walls), and engage in Galaga-tier combat. That's the game.

>>10908502
>Here's what Z1 actually is: a shitty little NES game with three colors (piss yellow, poop brown and baby poop green), where you wander around using the same two items to burn bushes and bombs walls in hopes of finding an entrance to a dungeon (wherein you bomb more walls), and engage in Galaga-tier combat.
oof. huge analpain incoming

>>10908502
Settle down, Aonuma.

>>10908541
well reddited sir

>>10908502
>You packed a lot of butthurt into this redditspaced reply.
It's not reddispaced, fucking newfag.
>>10908530
>huge analpain incoming
Why bother when it's clearly just a shitpost? That's what you nu-/vr/ idiots do when you can't actually make an argument. Most of that post is just seething rage, nothing engages with comprehension. Merely rephrasing something I wrote with sarcasm and throwing in some attempts to insult the game is not an argument. It means you're the one too steaming mad to make a coherent rebuttal.

>>10908724
>It's not reddispaced, fucking newfag.
t. actual newfaggot retard who hasn't learned to separate paragraphs with simple greentext and adds extraneous spaces for no reason.
>Why bother when it's clearly just a shitpost?
You started with the namecalling, now you're crying about meanie words on top of getting your argument blown out. Let me know when your mascara dries and we can get back to talking about the games.

>>10908724
>Merely rephrasing something I wrote with sarcasm and throwing in some attempts to insult the game is not an argument. It means you're the one too steaming mad to make a coherent rebuttal.
i mean, he makes some good points though, you just chose to ignore them. you saying that OOT uses bombs as a one off solution is silly because zelda 1 has plenty of one off solutions except it also has 1/4 as many items to begin with. i don't know why you think being forced to use the bombs to crack a wall or boulder is some masterclass in game design. it's repetitive, and once you know that you can use them to do this, the entire game becomes "better check every inch of every dungeon with bombs so i don't miss a secret wall". that's extremely lame. OOT has a much more elegant solution which is to use the bombs in the exact same way, but with far less repetition, and additional uses beyond its main functionality.

>>10908761
>now you're crying about meanie words
I'm not crying about anything, there's just nothing in the reply worth giving a serious response. You don't even seem to understand the mechanics of the original Zelda because you were straight-up wrong about how keys work.

>>10909345
>straight-up wrong about how keys work.
I never mentioned keys, I said bombs in both game are used as "arbitrary keys", not literal keys you fucking retard.
>cue more pillow crying
You keep responding but you haven't said one thing of substance. I repeat, if you wanted to have an argument in good faith, then you shouldn't have stooped to personal attacks. Apparently you're okay throwing ad hominems around, but as soon as someone else does it, you throw a hissy fit and use it as a justification for dismissing the opposing argument. To be fair, this was your only real recourse, since your argument is embarassingly stupid and trying to play up bombing every inch of the world as good game design is laughable at best.

>>10909345
>he thought using bombs as keys meant actual keys
yeah ngl bro you may in fact be retarded

>>10907395
>This will be a terribly unpopular opinion, but I actually think OoT is the closest we ever got to a real Z1 in 3D, and the revionist history propogated by zoomers who apply the very restrictive conventions of later Zelda titles like TP to OoT have skewed this truth.
Finally somebody says it. I'm sick of YouTube zoomers who get every opinion from some soiface thumbnail fag they subscribed to and MAYBE emulated the game or played it on their dad's N64 once or twice. OoT has been dealt a dirty hand because everybody assumes it's the same garbage as WW and TP when it actually gives you a lot of freedom and progression options. So many noobs will tell you that OoT is linear or handholdy but have no idea the weird shit you can do. I guarantee that 99.999% of detractors have no idea about the most basic things like how you can play the adult dungeons out of order, let alone meta shit such as how you can get to the first 4 adult dungeons with only going to Hyrule Field one single time after getting the Master Sword, buying Blue Fire early to avoid backtrscking, farming rupees with fish, using Farore's Wind to sequence break and hop between dungeons, one-cycling child bosses with Deku Sticks or the dozens of obscure secrets there are to find. I am so sick of casuals.

>>10908776
>i mean, he makes some good points though
No, he doesn't.
>zelda 1 has plenty of one off solutions
No, it doesn't, and this misses the actual point made which is that there are few mechanics that you're REQUIRED to discover and learn about before progressing through the first 3 dungeons. You have to get your sword and figure out how to use it, you have to discover that walking into a locked door while keys>=1 uses up the key to open the door, and that's about it. You have to use bombs to beat Dodongo, but you don't actually have to beat dodongo to access anything else in the game and bombs are a routine item that are used everywhere (including as a useful weapon in combat).

If Ocarina were ACTUALLY designed like the original Legend of Zelda, the game would have much more combat. Combat would form the bulk of the gameplay. The intro would still be slower than on NES because the game is more complex, but it wouldn't be relegated to just another side activity most of the time. After learning basic combat skills you'd then be able clear several real dungeons and explore many more without any further need to learn more mechanics to get past various roadblocks and gates. All those early-game dungeons would have optional, discover-able mechanics that would be required later on but for now would just enable shortcuts or access to some optional loot. The mechanics would be orthogonal. Instead of implementing a unique gimmick for nearly every dungeon, old mechanics would be used in various ways throughout the game.

This is important because the original's design gives the player the chance to discover mechanics on their own and to experiment with them for fun in the midst of an otherwise consistently challenging game (varied combat).

>>10909496
Neither keys nor bombs are used like traditional keys in the first Zelda game.

>>10910157
Ocarina isn't as bad as TP and WW but it's definitely not like the original on NES. Ocarina is closer to ALTTP structurally but ALTTP retains the routine combat that Ocarina largely abandons.

>>10909463
>You keep responding but you haven't said one thing of substance
I have, nobody has responded to it, because you can't even keep the topic of the discussion in your head. You apparently don't even remember you originally tried to claim Ocarina and LoZ are "similar than I realize." Sorry for calling you retarded over this, but it's a very stupid thing to say.

You don't seem to understand what it means to be a fundamental mechanic.
You don't seem to understand the implications of being able to progress through large portions of the game without being required to discover new mechanics every step of the way.
You don't seem to understand the implications of routine combat.

I'm not even saying Ocarina is a bad game. In fact I think it is a very good game (if overrated in many quarters). It's definitely a much LARGER and more complex game than the original NES Zelda. But it's in all that size and complexity that the game's design veers far away from principles in the original, even if a handful of concepts and ideas remain.

>>10911469
>>10911494
>double posting these redditspaced pooperpained essays a day after getting BTFO
embarassing, you are super mad dude

>>10898916
it's a good post OP

>>10911469
>Neither keys nor bombs are used like traditional keys in the first Zelda game.
You are a halfwit.

>any Zelda game
>being too easy
Just do a 3 heart/1 bottle run, problem solved.
>inb4 muh developer intentions
If they didn't intend for you to do this as a form of "hard mode" then I don't know why they'd force you to pick up heart containers to begin with.
>inb4 it's still too ez
Let's be honest, you suck at video games so this isn't a concern. Enjoy your new Zelda Souls experience, compliments of me.

>>10911530
That still doesn't make it actually fun though.

>>10911604
>ackshually, zelda just BAD
sorry you don't enjoy roaming pastoral highlands in search of treasure, you're gay i guess

>>10902036
this applies to every 3D zelda game anon, including our beloved twinky protagonist himself

>>10911654
I wish they were fun cause some of the games look cool. LttP and WW in particular, but they're like sleep medicine to me.

>>10911530
I haven't done a 3 heart run before. I really enjoy doing the side-quests and seeing the heart gauge go up. I prefer using patcher 64 to half outgoing damage and double incoming damage

>>10911604
Doesn't make it any harder either. Zelda games are easy as pie unless you're a women or someone who's never played vidya.

>10911530
>Do self imposed challenges if it's too easy.
>And if it's still too easy, you just suck.
lol Nice doubling down.

>>10898916
Wind Waker and Twilight Princess are litmus checks.
Filthy Graphicfags who should never have any input: WW
Feature bloat and shitty padding the game: TP

Played Twilight Princess HD on Cemu recently and it was fun. The dungeons made me really miss what we haven't gotten since.

>>10912220
TP is fuck ugly though.

>>10912220
TP is horrendous visually. It has a handful of decent designs like Link for example but even the way it implements these designs are horrible. Link looks like he has glaucoma or some shit in the game. He looks like a bethesda doll.
>>10912269
I think the dungeons for WW and TP are still decent and they go in interesting places when they aren't deathly afraid of the player being confused its just a damn shame that every other part of these games is so much bullshit

>>10898961
>driven to such a malaise
What the fuck does "malaise" even mean?

>>10913409
Not him but this is such a weird response. Are you trying to give your own ignorance as some kind of argument

>>10912189
Yeah that's pretty much what I meant. The combat isn't good, so making it so that's more of a chore as a way to make the game a challenge doesn't help anything. It would be nice if Nintendo ever had the balls to make one where there was a puzzle that couldn't be easily figured out by an eight year old.

I played through Zelda 1 recently. Do people realize you have to start doing dungeons in a more restrictive order starting with 4? Ocarina of Time offers you roughly a similar amount of freedom as the latter half of the original Zelda in terms of dungeon order.


Also Zelda 1 is fucking boring. I know for its time it was considered good but nowadays playing it is a drag if you actually try to do so without a guide and with a guide it just feels like cheating since the combat is so easy.

I cannot think of one aspect of the game I enjoyed outside of the music and visuals and this is coming from someone who's fond of Zelda 2

>>10911530
3 heart solves nothing though retard. The problem in Zelda games isn't enemies not doing enough damage its that enemies can't get a hit off or touch you at all.
3 heart challenges don't do shit.

>>10913437
I've tried Zelda 1 a couple of times. It really appeals to me since oldheads like it so much but I pretty much agree, I wouldn't enjoy using a guide (I always try to beat games "blind" first) and I wouldn't enjoy pixel hunting , unreasonable puzzles

>>10911682
Edgy dude you should totally keep repeating this in every fucking thread like you constantly do
Whys it always Zelda where people take pride in not enjoying it and brag about it
Just go away...

>>10913439
i would love to see you do a deathless minimalist run of OoT. bongo and ganon would stretch your asshole.

>>10913451
Thats not really what I meant. This is tedious. I don't consider those games part of the argument because they're already good. Stop being gross

>>10913437
>>10913440
Personally I find Zelda 1 and 2 too old for me. Its not really fun to play
But I do like later 2d Zelda. I think links awakening and oracles and minish cap are all great. I wonder how a 3d Zelda where the dungeons are all just boxed rooms its puzzles and other 2d inspired design would be.
Also a 3d Zelda with less fucking emphasis on the sword as if anyone cares about the combat. Why do they even give the sword its own dedicated button side from thats how OOT did it? 2D does it right.
But I really don't care about the Zelda series anymore for the past 15 years it's been dull. I think Links tablet in the new games is so boring and pulls me out of the adventure

>>10913463
>Stop being gross
stop the HRT

>>10913474
Dude

I've got a strong personal connection to windwaker. Its my favorite mediocre game. I would rather have some of tps dungeons added onto windwaker. Trim some fat while adding more substantial content like islands. Also I'd probably make sailing even more involved and tedious. Nobody who dislikes sailing will ever like the game so why cater to them? I'd let the wind change not only direction but also strength on its own. And have more ocean random encounters.
I'm a fan of just traveling in games and I don't really care how much that upsets people

>>10913486
Windwaker is my favorite setting because I strongly relate to sailing oceans and tropical stuff over more European fantasy land. I don't have woods like that where I grew up. So I've always liked windwaker more

>>10913463
>Stop being gross
lol I like that.

>>10913439
I'll take you up on that. Terms and conditions?

>>10913504
Whoops, 2nd reply was meant for >>10913451

>>10911527
They literally aren't, retard. Keys are a commodity that unlock any keyhole door in any dungeon and are consumed when used. You can even buy keys in shops.

>>10911510
nu-/vr/ zoomers proving they can't do anything but shitpost. First you cry and whine about me being mean, then you cry and whine that I didn't respond to the points. So I responded (again) to the argument and all you can do is vomit braindead one-liners in response. It's seriously pathetic.

>>10913437
>Do people realize you have to start doing dungeons in a more restrictive order starting with 4?
Of course, but your phrasing is very careless
>doing dungeons
Obscures the important difference between
>entering the level and exploring it until you hit a roadblock requiring the ladder or the bow&arrow.
>obtaining the dungeon's special item(s)
>defeating the boss and obtaining the triforce piece
This matters because the game is challenging enough that you're expected to get stuck sometimes. Maybe you're stuck in two places, the blue darknuts in Level-5 and the Wizrobes in Level-6. If you run out of portions you'll probably head back to the overworld to buy more. You may need rupees so maybe you'll go kill some lucrative enemies (Snakes in L2, Blobs in L3, Ghosts in the graveyard). Then when you're stocked up you can decide which one to try this time.

>Ocarina of Time offers you roughly a similar amount of freedom as the latter half of the original Zelda in terms of dungeon order.
Zelda 1 is a much smaller game. That means it also takes a lot less time to play because there's so much less padding. In the time it takes to get the Master Sword in Ocarina you can probably beat both quests of NES Zelda entirely.

>>10914502
>In the time it takes to get the Master Sword in Ocarina you can probably beat both quests of NES Zelda entirely
lmao what. you can get the master sword in like 2 hours, what are you smoking?

>>10900710
>says its the wolf part that's bad
>gets "75% of the way through" before quitting
The wolf part is heavily weighted to the beginning; the game is just shit.

>>10901572
Every character in Twilight Princess is ugly. And your image of what Hyrule is supposed to look like is about 7000% less brown than it appears in-game.

>>10913443
Nah, I'm good here.

>>10906129
Oh god, this 100% is what killed the hype I had going into TP. I was so fucking stoked to play this game, I changed my initial preorder for the GC version to the Wii version once they revealed that was coming out first, and of course this meant I needed a Wii, so I preordered that as well. I went home to play it and stayed up all night and into the morning (think I got as far as the Goron Mines).

The intro was indeed a slog, and Wolf Link felt strangely unfun to use, but surely it'll pick up and I can actually explore once Link goes back to normal, right? Nope, gotta clear the first dungeon. Ok, OoT did the same thing, so fair, I guess, and hey, Forest Temple, that was a cool dungeon in OoT!

Except now the Forest Temple is boring as shit and somehow even more uninteresting than the fucking Deku Tree. Whatever, tutorial dungeon, let's just keep going and FUCK YES HYRULE FIELD FINALLY, I wonder where I can go and explore. Kakariko Village maybe? The castle? Maybe I can visit Death Mountain or the Zoras? Wait, this is just a small section of it apparently, aaaaaaaaand there's literally nothing to do here except go straight into the Twilight Realm to do more shitty Wolf Link tear hunting again. Like, why did they even fucking bother showing us the field only to have you not be able to do anything there?

I kept holding out hope that the other sections of Hyrule (after freeing them from the Twilight) would be much more interesting and have much more to do, but the reality is they almost never were. The biggest chunk of the field is literally only used for that one battle to free Colin, and sure it looks cool, but outside of that it was fucking lame. Lake Hylia looked promising, but again, very little to actually do or discover there. The northernmost section is fucking barren, too. Like why was it even segmented like this except to railroad you onto a specific path? And don't get me started on the Zoras and Gorons and such. Just so much wasted potential.

>>10898916
1. Both 95% Metacritic games
2. Your loss if you don't enjoy them
3. No one cares about your seethe about 20 year old games when you're clearly mentally ill and can't just post about games you like

4. Only retards in this thread

>>10906129
>It was more than the wolf shit. The wolf segments were the nail in the coffin
>the nail in the 10 million copies and 18 GotY awards coffin
kek I love that Zelda destroys your life

>>10914517
NES Zelda can be beaten in 1-2 hours without using any glitches or speedrun techniques.

>>10899295
Is Okami hand holdy?
I only tried it on the wii once and never really got past the first hour or some shit because the game wouldn't shut the fuck up and let you play it at all. It was fucking atrocious and confusing why people thought that shit was good.
Also, looking at a PS2 longplay... is Okami HD like completely overhauled or something? The Okami HD video shit wouldn't stop talking in the first hour, but I saw a video labelled act 1, 1/3 and it seemed like it was dropped right into playing the game with no talking whatsoever.

>>10914770
world record speedrun for zelda 1 any% glitchless is about 28 minutes. you are fucking kidding yourself if you think the average person or even a reasonably good player is beating that shit in 1-2 hours, let alone first AND second quest. meanwhile getting the MS in OoT in under 2 hours is easy as fuck if you've played the game a couple times.

>>10914735
>kek I love that Zelda destroys your life
OoT is my favorite game of all time. That doesn't mean I have to lie to myself about the sequel being good.
>muh sales and critic reviews
Brainless tranny cow logic

>>10914816
dont respond to the weirdo sperg stuff like >>10914735
>>10914731
>>10914627

>>10914805
Zelda threads get so fucked up on /vr/ man its like these people are aliens while pretending to be friends while arguing with every single person who likes any zelda game

>>10915001
correction: arguing with every single person who holds any opinion at all on any zelda game

>>10915001
By definition 4chan is full of assholes, so... yeah asshole things will go down.

>>10915049
Nah this sites nice and this was a good thread ill probably make it again some day when I decid to replay these games some day and my brain cells keep dying and make me forget I ever made this thread

>>10915001
This has become my favorite thread seeing how angry and vitriolic the Zelda fans are to other Zelda fans who don't like the correct entries in the series enough. And it's obvious when the games are spammed here as constantly as has been happening over the last couple years it's only going to attract more negative attention.

>>10913486
A more polished and complete windwaker with more content and the best of TP's dungeons would be the best outcome and is so much better than 2 games that could be improvement and I think WW has a better base to work off of than TP

>>10915154
And we could've gotten that game, except Nintendo went and asked NOA why WW didn't sell as well as they hoped, and NOA told them it's because Americans didn't like the art style and were expecting OoT 2, so they dropped all plans for WW2 and gave "the fans" what they wanted instead of what they actually wanted to make. I think the results speak for themselves.

>>10914805
You're not getting the master sword in 2 hours unless you're experienced and know exactly what to do and don't waste any time doing all the random time-wasting bullshit that Ocarina encourages. OoT is less challenging so there's less adjustment for ability but you do not need to be elite to beat NES Zelda in 2 hours. Seriously, just try it for yourself.

>>10915359
nobody who is playing zelda 1 for the first time ever is beating it in 2 hours so im not sure what your point even is

>>10915187
i wish they held off on giving you the green tunic for longer.
keep you in the blue pajams
itd be cool if you never got the heros clothes until after the triforce hunt
also itd be cool if you had that triforce birthmark on your model after you do the triforce hunt too
but in the 2000s nintendo went full product link and he just has to have his signature clothes!

>>10915456
one of the rewards for beating the game is letting you permanently wear the pajamas on a new file bro

>>10915359
You can get the MS in 2 hours by ignoring side content and being fairly familiar with the game, yes. You are not beating quest 1 and 2 combined without ignoring all side items, being legitimately very good at the game and knowing the perfect routes through the quest. You are retarded if you think the two are comparable.

>>10915463
I know that anon.

>>10915473
then you're very likely retarded

>>10915475
I think you just didnt read my post right because im not saying "i wish i could wear the blue outfit more"

>>10915496
>in the 2000s, nintendo went le heckin full prosuct link by not letting you wear pajamas!
>*makes the only zelda game until 2017 where you can wear something other than tunics the entire game*
maybe you didn't read your own post RETARD

>>10915548
True though. Hell, they threw out Link's iconic look to try and replace him with a Sanrio mascot imposter.

>>10915548
what on earth is wrong with you

>>10915001
It's because a sign of severe autism is thinking in binary absolutes: 1/0, true/false, yes/no, win/lose etc etc.
It's why Zelda autism links so closely with general /pol/ autism or general /v/ autism.
Watch as the hand curling mouth frothers will tell me how I am wrong.

>>10915561
i cant tell what im supposed to accuse you of being wrong about because you havent actually said anything concrete yet. im not sure who you're accusing of what here

>>10915563
^perfect example. Immediately feels attacked, has to scrutinize which camp I fall into.

>>10915570
i dont feel attacked at all im just confused. like who are you trying to describe? i dont get it. im not even being facetious. you just described bad traits but didnt actually apply them to anyone

>>10915465
Faggot you are nitpicking minutes. They are absolutely comparable. So what if it's 2.5 hours instead of 2? The point about the difference in scale and scope is the same, but you seem too stupid to understand it. You fail to grasp the implications of Zelda 1 being a smaller, denser game.

>>10915573
...to both sides.
Zelda fanbois and Zelda haters alike, the common theme to either's defense? Autism.
Pure unadulterated autism.

>>10915580
Dude it took me over a month to beat zelda 1 on my first attempt with no 2nd quest

>>10915583
well i like zelda games but i dont have any of the stuff you describe
its kind of ironic that your post talking about how people lack nuance of opinion seems to lack nuance.
what are both sides? that seems kind of binary

>>10915585
Yeah, initial playthroughs vary too widely to be directly comparable. You can spend a month puttering around talking to Kokiri and Gorons and rounding up chickens and so on.
So to compare scale, it makes sense to just look at a competent player consuming the content without messing around.

>>10915580
>ablabbada blabbada you can definitely beat both quests of zelda 1 in "1-2 hours" even though it takes people who literally devote their lives to speedrunning the game 30 minutes to beat one quest while ignoring every unnecessary item
you are too stupid to continue arguing with, good night.

>>10915635
2 hours is 4 times longer than 30 minutes. That's a massive difference. Do zoomers even learn math? Obviously you don't learn how to argue.

>>10913504
As a progress report:
>3 Hearts only
>No fairies
>No potions
>No upgrades besides items required for progression
>No Lens of Truth
>No Hylian Shield
>No progression skips/tricks

I died at the Forest Temple fighting the Stalfos, got too cocky. F
Fucked up baiting a specific chain of attack pattern and got killed by a jump slash.

Also died to Volvagia stupidly touching me, didn't shoot him in time to go back into the ground, started panicking when he circled around me.

Died to Bongo-Bongo several times, fucked up the timing to shoot him as he gets closer. Gave up.

Things I've learned:
>Stalfos fights are tense with less hearts + no shield
>Phantom Ganon is pretty tense with 3 hearts if you don't know the easy stun trick
>Less hearts = less underwater timer time
>Shadow Temple's a tedious nightmare without the Lens of Truth
>The closer Bongo-Bongo gets to you, the longer he's stunned for after shooting him

Curious if it's even possible to beat Ganondorf with just the small magic meter. I'd assume it is, albeit tedious, since you'd have to jump down and break only a couple pots since their drops don't respawn unlike in OoT 3D.

To conclude:
OoT can be pretty challenging if you aren't careful. It's not too difficult of a game if you're a Veteran, but can pose a challenge for the intermediate player. I'd say combat posed the greatest challenge with these self-imposed rules, especially with no shield. Overall it's not really worth it imo.
Also fuck Bongo-Bongo lol

>>10901868
I find It quite charming, the many chasms around hyurule field were pretty cool too.

>>10899417
1998? That’s wrong, he joined in 1988.
>>10899939
He was a director on both OOT and MM.
I hate what he did with Zelda, though. He probably wasn’t in full charge before Wind Waker seeing as OOT and MM had other people directing besides him.

>>10900938
>Nah equipment screen is dumb
It's an RPG if you didn't realize.

>>10916489
This is a thread about Zelda, Anon.

>>10915585
I just did levels 6 and 5 in 20 minutes. And that included having to go back into Level-6 because I made a wrong turn and wound up taking the path to the triforce piece first instead of the magic wand. I'd cleared levels 1-4 and gotten the blue ring, medicine and every overworld heart in about 40 minutes the other night.
So I'm at an hour played and have finished 6 of 9 levels.
Not speedrunning. No glitches. No save scumming. I just know where to find everything, don't waste time, and am apparently a lot better at killing Wizrobes and Darknuts than I was when I was a kid.

All games in the mid/late 2000s era treated the player like they were idiots and were fucking awful. TP is just from a series people actually like and still care about.

>>10918630
>All games in the mid/late 2000s era treated the player like they were idiots

Agreed. Like, this was the whole reason games like La Mulana and Demon Souls were so stand out refreshing.

>>10898916
>It's ugly
>I think the game looks great

Nice

>>10918630
There was still Monster Hunter but that's the opposite and too much for most people.