/vr/ - Retro Games

>shits itself if the level isn't Wolfenstein 3D tier corridors

>>10820163
what year are you from, exactly..? That hasn't been an issue for nearly a decade.

>>10820167
From 2024. I make maps for GZDoom (unfortunately). Also
>gtx 660 will become the minimum to play VANILLA DOOM 2 after opengl will be deleted
Lol
Lmao

>>10820146
> GZDoom is more doom than doom at this point
GZDoom is a gross perversion of doom.

>>10820172
>opengl will be deleted
wut?

>>10820146
>GZDoom is more doom than doom at this point.
gay opinion
GZDOOM is GZDOOM
a sourceport that allows for extra shit for modders
it also has a lot of fluff that you have turn off if you want to play a classic version of doom. and the menu is kind of a clusterfuck. thankfully they realized this, and added the search filter. still kind of a headache

if you want more classic doom, theres many other sourceports. and even DOS emus too, if you really want that old 90s shitbox feel. even then, id recommend chocolate

>It's also the only source port that has been used as a springboard to make actual commercial games.

That are all slop. I mean come on...Selaco? lol.

>>10820329
Starting from 5.0, GZDoom will run only on Vulkan and OPENGL will be dropped.
Just so you understand, because of thisz you'll need
>A GTX 660 or higher graphics card (most older stuff is not compatible with Vulkan)
>An i5 processor
>4GB of RAM minimum
To run Vanilla Doom 2. Not blade of agony, not total chaos, vanilla Doom 2.
Are you feeling that progress yet?

>>10820349
neat
sounds retarded and gay
not like theres a shortage of alternative sourceports tho. and ill still be able to just run shit on an older version so whatever i guess

but im confused why exactly theyd think this is a good idea to begin with. i cant imagine it would be much added difficulty to get opengl to work, seeing how it already does
is it just a classic case of out-of-touch nerds?
>omggg lik who rly uses opengl these days?
oh ya know, just basically half of everyone still playing doom in current year

or is there some actual technical reason why?

>>10820146
As a Doom port? It never beaten PrBoom (and its deriviatives).
As an easy PC-only indie games engine? Sure, it is bound to happen at some point. Even if it will be a fork of GZDoom that removes ability to play Doom itself for optimization sake.
Just a reminder:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UtTtrwMQHI

gz(oomer)doom never had a throne
that would either be original boom(er) on dos or prboom

>>10820349
running doom on any form of hardware accel was sin to begin with among any competent modder

>>10820474
Isn't driver support for Vulkan extensions permanently fucked because vendors can't agree on what features/extensions should or shouldn't be accepted? Why would anyone in their right mind switch to Vulkan when its future is doomed to instability and incompatibility? GPU vendors basically want nothing to do with it and would rather stick to OpenGL and Direct3D 12. D3D12 is just as bad as Vulkan but it's better supported by vendors because they looove that Microsoft cock yum yum!

>>10820474
>>omggg lik who rly uses opengl these days?
i expected better response from doom RETRO fans. you know a shitload of people running doom sources on retro hardware for that very reason ITS A FUCKING RETRO GAME
no idea what these fuckers are smoking
but purists will just run on software mode anyway... but that might be more difficult on really old machines

Don't care, still having fun
https://files.catbox.moe/huxiuy.webm

It's honestly more than doom at this point. To a point that it kinda sucks for just a game of classic good ol' doom.

>>10820146
CRISPY, ZANDRONUM, NUGGET, AND ETERNITY WILL RISE UP!

>>10820349
I can't even run GZDoom. I'm still using LZD.

>>10820146
Dunno and don't care, still using Doomsday since the early jDoom days.

i hate gzdoom only mods its not really a doom mod at that point its just a new game running on gzdoom. how is it a doom mod at that point.

>>10820927
same. I just like the old rendering.

>>10820172
They're replacing the OpenGL renderer with the OpenGL ES renderer which works significantly better then the prior OpenGL renderer on low end hardware anon....

>>10820167
gzdoom is unable to do 120+ fps in sprawling levels like those seen in extremely popular wads like ancient aliens and eviternity 1/2, even on a modern PC using vulkan and with all graphical enhancements disabled

>>10821110
whats the ES stand for?
extra suck?

>>10820146
>I bet most people here haven't even played DOOM in any way OTHER than GZDOOM.
Wrong board buddy, >>>/v/.

>>10821185
lol right?
fucking tourists
my first time was on my dads old craptop. windows 95. no mouse. had one of those red nipple for a mouse, but that shit kinda sucked to use so i used arrow keys

>>10821179
Embedded systems.

>>10820146
is zsnes version of doom no one can match it and hacks or mods only work in there and not on other stuff.

>>10821256
>is zsnes version of doom
wat

>>10820146
I only ever play on Crispy with
>music turned off
>all other settings default
>No secrets/pickup display
>No secret markers on map
>No freelook
>D-pad only
How autistic am I?

>>10821308
>>D-pad only
>Doom
>D-pad
No
Play on arrow keys

>>10821320
nah arrow keys sucked
t. >>10821204

getting to play it with a mouse was like getting to play a whole new game

>>10821308
Not enough. If you don't have an old enough PC and you don't want to buy one, use 86box.

I like several mods that are gzdoom exclusive. I play gzdoom exclusively now because I have a nice fat gayming computer and I can enable shit that shouldn't legally exist like pseudo ray tracing with jank ass github mods and for some reason that makes me happy.

I am fairly satisfied. I'm not sure why you all are not.

>>10821390
>I'm not sure why you all are not.
I just always assume the people who are bitching are running a C2D Thinkpad with Intel 950 GME, and wonder why a engine that is Doom compatible, but is NOT Doom does not work at high FPS on their craptop

>>10820837
Vulkan 1.3 is bretty gud.

>>10821410
on complex maps, gzdoom has worse performance than AAA games. post your elementalism benchmarks so we can all see.

>>10821671
No, since I already know it's going to be trash.
GZDoom's core logic (Really, zDoom which is from 1998) was designed to be single threaded and wasn't ever designed to scale to what it's been asked to do with the scripting thats seen in the 2010s and later era of Doom WADs.
If you're surprised by this then I don't know what to tell you anon.

>>10821671
Also, for kicks I did load up the WAD (pk3 really) and it runs fine....
Whats your croptop anon?

>Not maining DSDA-Doom while keeping GZDoom on the side for anything that explicitly needs it
I shiggy diggy

>>10821780
>e1, in the corner of the map
of course it's going to run fine when there's nothing to render
try e3, e4 out of the starting area, f1, or f5
I don't know why you're bringing up the limited scope of gzdoom's multithreading, because that isn't what the problem is
anyway, I just got done playing Helldivers 2 and it runs better than that, despite also being on a dogshit abandoned engine.

>>10820329
One word.
Inhales.
>Klaus Schwab is going to delete OGL from the internet in 2024. It is part of his WEF 2024 agenda.

>>10820146
PRboom w full raytracing is pretty fuckin neato, just got a poverty 4060 for the ancient rig and i've been blastin that shit at 1080p 120fps lul

>>10821504
You will never be a real API. You have no software, you have no games, you have no 3D future. You are a zoomer abomination of modern engineering and manufactured into a crude mockery of OpenGL.

All the “validation” you get is from /v/ermin using RGB lit zoomerware. Behind your back boomers mock you. DX8 and DX9-11 are disgusted and ashamed of you, your OpenGL counterparts laugh at your appearance behind well optimized, real software of the past.

Both software devs and 3D modelers are utterly repulsed by you. Decades of evolution have allowed DX9-11 to shine. Even your DX12 instruction set looks uncanny and unnatural to a software dev. Your lack of backwards compatibility with legacy hardware is a dead giveaway. And even if you manage to get something to work, it'll immediately crash and burn compared to stability of OpenGL

>>10822219
wat u think of cuda cores

>>10821982
Jews want to kill all legacy hardware support because older machines didnt have backdoors in them. Even debian announced that they will drop x86_32 support for old machines now
I'm convinced that vulkan and all other zoomerware is part of their plan to create forced obsolescence because (((they))) are legitimately scared of hardware they dont have control over.
My advice? Get retro PC and local storage. Download every retro game and go perma offline. Raise kids in the woods with only handful collection of retro software

>>10821671
>>10821943
Sincere question... do any source ports honestly genuinely have significantly better performance on these larger maps?

If so... you have a chance to convert me here and now. I just need an ounce of evidence.

>>10821110
>no support for lightmaps
>iqm support is fucked
>nobody actually bothers to fix this
>probably a myriad of other rendering bugs as well
Nice alternative you have there, Graf.

>>10820474
>is it just a classic case of out-of-touch nerds?
>>omggg lik who rly uses opengl these days?
>oh ya know, just basically half of everyone still playing doom in current year
It's this. dpJudas seriously considers making ZDRay (baked lighting creation utility for gzdoom) RTX-only for example, he already did I think cause I can't run the latest official ZDRay on my GTX 1080.
For the record, these lightmaps are buggy as shit and don't even have basic light bouncing. ZDray is literally Quake 1 tier lightmapping.

>>10821308
2x res is too high res

More people today have grown up playing Doom and Doom 2 with the retarded ZDoom default settings than anything closer to vanilla

I just don't understand why every open source project these days feels that it's absolutely necessary to jump into the bleeding edge and abandon old tech as soon as possible. I understand why Apple does it because they need to sell new overpriced models of phones and PC's for the tech illiterate consumer despite ones from 10 years ago being perfectly viable. But stuff like GNOME, wayland, SystemD, ZDoom, Firefox? What are they gaining from this express release cycle?
Try to play Wolfendoom, a mod made specifically for ZDoom in the 00's, you can't anymore because some things it needed were deprecated. In 2015 someone made a patch for wolfendoom to play on modern GZdoom. Guess what, the patch depends on stuff that has also been deprecated since. This is the source port to end all source ports?

>>10822739
I don't know how it is for those other programs, but I know the devs for GZDoom are stuck in a weird situation where working around the decades of shitty spaghetti code held together with dried cum and optimism means the engine doesn't work very good.
But of course if the team throws all that shit out, then they destroy compatibility with decades of Doom mods. It's a catch 22.

>>10820146
MBF21 adoption will make it obsolete

>>10820838
I am not defending the policy of GZDoom or the bullshit that passes for progress nowadays but your laptop from 2007 is not retro hardware, it is just a shitty old laptop. If you are planning to use retro hardware for Doom, might as well play vanilla or chocolate, because if not, what's the point. If your PC isn't that powerful, switch to crispy or prboom.

>>10822751
A fork must be created.

>>10820474
On the forums Graf has mentioned that there are a number of render optimizations they could do, but that doing so across multiple graphics backends, some of which are ancient spaghetti code, would be time prohibitive. I assume then that they went with Vulkan because it's the least baggaged and most forward facing.

>>10822352
for software mode probably not, but dsda at least has a much faster hw renderer than gz
here's some eviternity maps with all settings default other than setting 1080p and switching dsda from software to opengl

Gzdoom is a divine vessel for the gospel of SGT. MARK IV and nothing else is important or matters

Good luck running Poogers on JizzyDoom

>>10821996
Unironically kino in a lookin good kinda way, I don’t think my 5700xt can even do RT

>>10821909
DSDA Doom is made by a Discord cabal that ignores issues on Github in favor of mutual dick sucking on their server.

>>10823575
Just looked and there’s 25 open, 125 closed, maybe half or less are bugs, is that bad? GZDoom is 76 open 466 closed.

>>10823635
You realize that open/closed bugs mean fuck all right?

>>10823638
What other metric are you using for the dicksword cabal? I don’t sit in troon pits all day sorry

>>10823575
You're telling me I can get my cock sucked for free?

>>10823734
Figuratively, if that's your thing

>>10820146
>Will it ever be dethroned? Can it be?
No, because whining never dethroned anything. Forking it out of spite isn't going to get you anywhere either because holding the same level of spite for such long periods of time is a net loss mentally, and would cloud your judgement when making important technical decisions. GZDoom can only be dethroned by someone with actual passion. Problem is there's a lot of legacy code bogging down the internal logic, which if you throw out you basically end up with a completely different engine so you're back to square one with a bunch of lazy faggots screaming "IT AIN'T DOOM" at you, meaning anyone with a passion is going to take one look at the landscape and go "lmao fuck that". So no. GZDoom won't get dethroned because its userbase is what is ultimately keeping both that port and everything else in the mud.

>>10821909
Is there even a need for DSDA when Woof/Nugget exists?

>>10822352
Helion is pretty fast, I guess.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsdddPENs_k

>>10820146
While still popular, GZDoom doesn't have the same stranglehold on the community that it had back in the late 2000's/early 2010's, IMO.
Throughout the 2010's was a major Vanilla/Boom mapping revival
By the 2020's, we've gotten newer stuff like MBF21 and UMAPINFO that also don't rely on GZDoom to run.
Source ports like DSDA-Doom and Woof are much more lightweight compared to GZDoom.
Gameplay mods (which were a common reason for people using GZDoom for everything) aren't nearly as popular as they used to be.

>>10824128
man, this runs that map like 20x faster than gzdoom for me. gz only gets 20fps in some places

Are there limit removing source ports better performing than GZDoom? I’m asking I don’t know, I’ve just been using it out of familiarity, but if there’s a better option that runs like 90+% of WADs I have no problem switching to it.

>>10824362
Woof

>>10820146
*fucking mogs rapes and gapes and pwns gayzogdoom*
snowberry > that shite.

>>10820172
Only plebs play the vanilla iwads on anything other than chocolate doom.

>>10820146
I truly wish Zandronum and new fresh multiplayer mods made a comeback instead of co-op slop.

So what's the better source port to make mods with?

>>10824389
>snowberry
Pls no, can we go back to kickstart?

>>10824389
What's the story with Doomsday anyway? I remember it always kinda being there, but nobody would ever talk about it or even acknowledge its existence.

most gzdoom gameplay mods suck ass anyway. woof is where it's at.

>>10824448
Isn't Odamex the most competitive one? World Doom League uses it.

>>10820486
on one hand, yeah that's shit and unoptimized as fuck, on the other hand, what else do you use to make something with ambitions like Golden Souls 3 (or even 2)? I doubt you can do all that stuff with something like MBF21

>>10821047
typically because half the sprites for monsters they end up using are a blend of edited Doom/Heretic/Hexen/Duke3d sprites so they have to make it a mod lest they get C&Ds from trying to make an original game with "stolen" assets, most doom modders aren't artists, or mappers for that matter, they just know how to shove layers of code on preexisting assets to make them do new things

>>10823014
and then you end up with dozens of forks that everyone has to keep track of and you end up with the current source port problem of "well which fucking one do i use?"

>>10824338
I appreciate the vanilla focus lately but it feels so limited after a while, every mapset feels like the same old thing, same weapons, same monsters, same strategies, it gets old, that's half the reason i keep fucking around with g/zdoom mods on stuff because it spices up the enemies, or weapons, gives me something new than just a different set of maps and textures

>>10822714
>>10822714
I was born in 1991.

I played DOOM 2 in DOS with mouse enabled. I remember being blown away that you could move the mouse forward/back to move your character but obviously ultimately used the arrow keys for movement.

I like GZDoom with mouse look, jumping, and a weapon mod that adds reloading weapons.

New thing not inherently bad. Old thing not inherently better. Nobody is really missing much if they've only played GZDoom and not DOS versions. Only thing they're missing out on is some vague sense of... I don't know..? Is it a clout thing? "I PLAYED OLD DOOM!" I mean okay awesome but what does that really even mean..? Do you want a loyalty badge or something?

>>10824698
It was popular 20-something years ago, kinda like Doom Legacy, except much more graphically advanced.
Ran well enough on my old rig (P133, RivaTNT). Lightning really impressed me at the time.
As people either gone the way of GZDoom or gone back to something more vanilla it kinda died. I still love it though and it got some diehard fans.

>>10820146
Probably not, there's too much content for it, and making something with comparable abilities would be shitloads of work which nobody wants to undertake. Remember that the ZDoom family of ports have been in development since the 1990s.

>>10820349
They've already implemented OpenGLES as a compatibility option, I fail to see the problem with getting rid of an increasingly dated backend which isn't really relevant for modern day computers.

>>10822365
When you're running a poorfag machine, you can settle for the poorfag options, yes. When GLQuake became a thing, you could either upgrade your computer and get a VooDoo graphics card, or you could stay with software rendering on your 486, with its silky smooth 15 to 20 frames per second.

>>10822369
Half of Doom's playerbase? Is this something you know for a fact, or just conjecture?

>>10822739
>and abandon old tech as soon as possible
Because why put time and effort into supporting hardware which nobody in your userbase is actually using? People cried about GzDoom abandoning 32bit support, yet it turned that virtually nobody at all was running GzDoom on 32bit machines, complainers basically just liked the idea of it being there, in spite of them playing on 64bit computers.

That was GzDoom holding on to 32bit support for a very long time, too, machines which had not been manufactured for over a decade by that point, so they weren't exactly in a hurry. The same for OpenGL, it's not exactly a contemporary rendering backend in 2024, finally dropping it to better support what people are ACTUALLY using is perfectly reasonable.

>>10822760
GzDoom supports MBF21 since some time now, and there's already rumblings about a new standard which will eventually replace it in the future, one which will use the UDMF map format. Probably something which will also have a coding language akin to a shaved down Decorate, rather than building more onto the convoluted bullshit that is DeHacked.

Nothing of that will make GzDoom obsolete anyway, because people want demo compat and mild system requirements for this prospective standard, which leaves GzDoom to be able to do shitloads more by the virtue of not giving a fuck about those, something which a lot of people also want.
It'd be the ideal situation, actually. A more flexible and useful 'low end' standard which works better and is easier to implement, and then a 'high end' standard which can run the former, and which you can then go balls to the walls with if you really want to.

>>10823635
DSDA has a GitHub, but it's essentially just there for releases, if you submit an error report there they are going to fucking ignore it, they'll only pay attention if you go to their Discord channel to report the bug. The lead dev of DSDA has skin thinner than single ply toilet paper.

>>10825340
>Doom Legacy
this one takes me back, it's the first real source port i used. it lives on as SRB2 and SRB2Kart's game engine. why don't more indie games do this?

>>10826771
nta but i also loved legacy cause it had splitscreen which i loved playing with my friends.

>>10826870
yeah, it's a really cool feature and SRB2 and Kart ended up inheriting it, which is fitting.

>>10825585
>just ignore the fact that the renderer is completely busted in gzdoom, rendering all the sectors from scratch each frame
>just ignore the fact that the culling in gzdoom is busted as well, where if even a single pixel of a sector is visible, the entire sector gets render alongside 3 other sectors adjacent to it as well for some reason
>just ignore the fact that gzdoom's asset streaming is absolute garbage, to the point that the engine stutters when playing 5 second sound effects
>just ignore the fact that gzdoom requires an i5 processor while all the collision in the engine is still a bounding box that can't even be made rectangular, in 2024

>>10827140
>>just ignore the fact that gzdoom's asset streaming is absolute garbage, to the point that the engine stutters when playing 5 second sound effects
Never happens to me, and the game runs fine.

>>10820146
GZdoom is only really used if you are playing something that isn't doom, or requires shit that doom or boom can't do. if you are playing a wad designed for doom or boom.... why would i use a source port that uses 100* more resources when i can just play on pr boom + ?

gzdoom is pretty 1337 with freedoom, dhtp, and 4xbrz

>>10824864
>jumping
>mouse look
>reloading
At some point it becomes a different game than what the devs designed, that's why, and people are being fooled into thinking they are playing Doom. I have nothing against playing however it makes you happy but you are making this choice. I grew up with Doom95 so not even DOS Doom, higher resolution, but no one tried to remake Doom the way they thought people should play Doom instead of the way Doom was made. If Doom95 had jump and freelook and reloading by default I would probably be using the defaults and know only something not quite Doom. Mods are for fans of the game that want new experiences, the first time player should not be introduced to something that changes the gameplay fundamentally without warning.
Imagine someone writes a source port to Doom 3 and for some reason decides that the game by default should be always bright so you don't need a flashlight anymore, you can play it like any other shooter. And it becomes the most popular way of playing Doom 3 and most new players don't even know it's supposed to be dark. I would want to see how it plays like that, but I have already played Doom 3 the way it was designed. I don't think it's respectful by the source port devs to the players and the original designers to change the gameplay fundamentally in a stealth way and advertise it as a mere port.

>>10820146
I use it for mods only.
I abandoned it after they defended a pedophile.
use DSDA Doom now.

>>10827763
That was the forum admins, which they got sort of kicked out for, even Graf joined in on the uproar when that nasty shit was revealed.

There's a question as to how much is actually changed, and whether or not those forum admins were as removed as proclaimed, but ZDoom Forums became almost a ghost town as far as I can tell. Lots of people shuttered their project threads and moved elsewhere (unfortunately, largely Discords), and previously bustling threads like the big spriting one sees very few posts anymore.

>>10827721
>and people are being fooled into thinking they are playing Doom
That's retarded, you're retarded.

>>10827845
desu knowing zdoom none of those people "left" it was a last ditch effort to save face and rightfully its shot them in the foot, I know graf was upset and thats good on him, personally I feel at this point someone or graf should just fork gzdoom and resume it under a new name without the previous staff but I dont think that will happen at all.

>>10827853
It's upsetting, but I pay taxes for much worse, so I don't see the point in boycotting something which is free and which works. The old man should definitely purge his ranks though.

>>10820889
Is there a point in using Crispy when Nugget exists?
Nugget is Crispy but simply better

>>10827848
He isn't wrong.
There are quite a few zoomers who's innital experience with Doom is Brutal Doom.

>>10827140
>>just ignore the fact that the renderer is completely busted in gzdoom, rendering all the sectors from scratch each frame
To be fair, many (most?) source ports also render this way, because it's basically the naive evolution from software rendering, but even in that category GZDoom is still among the slowest. Most people don't understand just how (relatively) slow CPU-GPU communication is. And most Doom levels aren't that complex, so the issue kinda had the chance to sneak in. Now that everyone is making magnum opuses and people are used to 100fps+ the issue really sticks out.

>>10828146
I know, and I know of plenty who then gave the base game a chance to then discover that they really liked it, a lot, often more than Brutal Doom.
Probably because Brutal Doom has had long periods of not very good gameplay balance, which straightens out the difficulty curve too much by making easier monsters harder and harder monsters easier (I haven't touched it in years, so I don't know how that looks these days).

It has worked a bit like a gateway drug for Doom in that sense. Some people simply don't care for the unmodified game and they weren't gonna give it a shot anyway (or they haven't come around to it yet), but many find that Doom has infinity to offer, both other advanced GzDoom mods, and just the base game itself which is undeniably well crafted and fun, and with all that is inbetween. I know of one or two zoomers who got into it with Brutal Doom as a teen, but are now almost purists.

>>10820837
Extensions were always optional even in opengl. There is no problem is you stick to core features, retard.

there needs to be a new sourceport that's compatible with everything gzdoom related while still able to do loads of sectors without slowing down, is that too much of an ask? just look at ironwail for quake

>>10828792
Would take a whole lot more work then fixing GZDoom, which it self would still be a large effort.
Really no easy path on this one.

>>10828792
>Why don't people just do magic? It's so obvious!

>>10824864
>jumping
thank god for the "skip half the level" mod that is on by default so zoomers never play the fucking game

>>10828942
Waiting until 30 is a long time...

>>10829209
?

>>10828827
>>10828942
it may be a hard task, but possible. it needs the likes of which we haven't seen the likes of which, instead of some retard that forces texture filtering on as default settings

>>10829296
It takes too long to become a wizard.

>>10829320
Sounds good, do it.

>>10828740
Nobody sticks to core features. Looks like we're all retards after all.

What's this I've been hearing about VKDoom, and GzDoom implementing whatever they're working on? Would it help resolve a lot of the performance problems?

>>10830747
Probably not. I think that mostly applies to new features, but not the optimization that would break Doom compatibility more, as VKDoom takes a more liberal approach and intended for indie devs in the first place.

>>10827721
>At some point it becomes a different game than what the devs designed
The devs designed the data format to be hackable and then open sourced the engine.
This is all exactly as they intended.

>>10830960
The most autistic kind of purists don't get that. Both John Romero and John Carmack were both hackers as kids, fucking around with other people's software to learn from it and make it different is a fundamental part of their DNA, the entire point with the .wad format and the publishing of the sourcecode was to promote what they regarded as "the hacker ethic" among their fans.

>>10830747
Nah, it will probably bloat EVEN MORE the engine.
GZDoom codebase is as disastrous as a Bethesda game.

>>10830970
I almost never get GzDoom crashing.

>>10830960
>>10830963
Completely missing the point
Keep pretending the argument is being against modding to win the argument inside your head

>>10831107
That is the only argument.

>https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/105782-difference-between-performance-on-zandronum-and-gzdoom/?tab=comments#comment-1982115
>https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/50867-forking-gzdoom-anyone/?tab=comments#comment-873386
What could go wrong?

>>10820146
>Romero says to use Gzdoom to play both Sigil wads
>Boots it up in prboom+ with absolutely zero issues
i fucking hate using gzdoom, only using it as an absolute necessity if i absolutely have to. dev behind it is a huge fag too. sourceports like Crispy, Chocolate, Zandronum, PrBoom+, and Nugget are way better for Vanilla Doom & iwads.
>>10820172
>deleting opengl
lol. lmao even. what a fucking fag
>>10824864
>born in 1991
>prefers doom with jumping & reloading
you ain't made for these streets. Go back to playing microslop games

>>10827763
>>10827845
I am getting real FUCKING TIRED of this "THEY'RE 17! IT'S PEDOPHILIA!!!" horseshit

Not only because it's fake and gay and retarded but also because I keep getting excited thinking I'm about to hear how some autistic dev hid cp in a mod or something spicy and it just turns out to be some manchild e-dating a high schooler.

Also for what it's worth if you can get "groomed" as old as fucking 17 you have absolutely fucking lost at life. Seriously, how fucking disconnected are people? 17 is not a child. 17 is old enough to enlist in most militaries. 17 is old enough to consent in basically everywhere but a tiny handful of states, even. Yeah okay I get it we want to infantilize people for as long as possible but come the actual fuck on.

It's fucking retarded to see a take like this on 4chan of all places, too. Home of pedobear. I doubt most people here would give a shit even if they were actually literally a pedophile, but this "ohhh noooo he e-groomed a nearly 18 year old" shit is weaksauce.

>>10832926
Almost posted
>t. Marisa
but having read your post I think I agree. Throwing pedo left and right also cheapens the severity of the action itself and has the potential to create a cried wolf situation. This is something you most definitely DON'T want to end up with as far as actual pedophilia is concerned. Desensitizing people to it by alleging everyone is a kiddie diddler for having looked in the direction of one at some point is exactly how you end up with mass kiddie diddling because there's no one left to give a fuck when it actually happens as it gets handwaved with "lol larp"
But I do disagree with
>17 is not a child. 17 is old enough to enlist in most militaries. 17 is old enough to consent in basically everywhere but a tiny handful of states, even.
Have you seen the average 17 year old? They're stupid as shit. The brain hasn't even properly evolved yet. And it's not a fault of the person, it's just that human development is that fucking slow. But even if you want to make the argument that I'm wrong, consider that grooming is effectively propaganda for all intents and purposes, and nobody is immune to propaganda. You are never too old for someone else to fuck up your life, whether you realize it or not.

>>10832926
It was part of a much bigger picture.

This was not the only thing he did, he's 'dated' people way younger than himself in the past, and there's vague circumstantial evidence suggesting much worse things (innocent until proven guilty and all, but I've also heard through the grapevine of him insinuating things about it).
He's also a general socially inept sex pest, much of the controversy was that he was sexually harassing someone who repeatedly told him to stop, but that ZDF mods refused to act, and eventually threatened him to stop complaining "or else." He was being protected in all of this nasty shit by the forum staff, which is why people revolted and abandoned the forums. Why was he procted? Because he's a communist troon, like ZDF staff themselves, and it didn't matter at all to them that he was a sex pest, or that he was generally really fucking inappropriate in public spaces he knew contained minors (something I personally witnessed multiple times), or that he confessed to being VERY inappropriate with minors in private.

This is not a man you would want to be near your own children by any means.

>>10833197
>>10833418
I don't care about your little internet drama. I don't care what he is or what he did. And I despise you for expecting other people to care.

>>10832504
OpenGL is more bother than it's worth from a dev perspective, consider getting a computer which doesn't date from 2011.

>>10831107
How is it not? The screeching is over the game being modified.

>>10832504
Romero says a lot of shit, do not take everything he says seriously.

>>10833598
Newsflash retard, I don't use opengl nor do i use gzdoom. The fact of the matter is if a sourceport causes a fucking 1993 game to run like dogshit on any reasonable PC then it's not a good source port. The whole point of Doom is that you can run it on any PC within the past like 20 years with no issue

>>10822931
but it is retro. native support for x86_32 that can run windows xp for so many 2000s pc games and perfect compatibility. just stick gt9800 into there and you all set

>>10822739
>abandon old tech as soon as possible
i answered this question and got banned for it from all boards, so it must be true. look it up

>>10832504
romero is a fucking faggot. he lied about sigil. he said it's compatible with vanilla, but then he fucked up visplane limit, so only to play sigil was via doom... sigil 2 is not even booting on dos. fuck that scam artist

>>10835052
via boom*

>>10833854
It's like you're willingly obtuse, this has been explained to your fetal alcoholic ass over and over.

GzDoom is Doom at its core, but it's also a LOT more than just 1993's Doom, it is more than two decades of development to facilitate extensive modding, which ultimately means system specs grow, and as people cease using old machines then support for those is ditched in favor the machines which people are actually using.
There's certainly things which could be better about GzDoom (I curse the Chickenman every week), but since it's still Doom deep down under there, you're bound to Doom's single threading for the game logic, which means performance bottlenecks in some aspects.

If you want "good performance on a reasonable computer" then you already have Chocolate Doom, Crispy Doom, Woof, DSDA, and Nugget, all very good ports which run the core game (mostly) smoothly. With MBF21 and UMAPINFO we have more advanced and flexible modding without going into full GzDoom territory, and even better is on the horizon.

>>10835427
Gzdoom's problem is not it being single core, at least not the biggest performance problem. It's the shitty renderer.

LZDoom runs considerably better than GZDoom does, and it offers all of the functionality that GZDoom does (or rather did in 2022, before drfrag discontinued it).

You wanna know how it did that? It simply reverted the change from OpenGL 3.0 to OpenGL 2.1, and also added culling to geometry based on distance.

That alone is enough to make GZDoom a far more lightweight engine. What I would like you to explain is why does GZDoom need OpenGL 3.0

>>10827427
>Never happens to me
Ah, so you're low IQ. Got that. There's no point in trying to explain any of this to you then.

>>10835052
The vast majority of vanilla works made in the past 25 years do not adhere to the original static limits, so why the fuck would Sigil? Even 1997 era computers could easily handle much more than Doom's original parameters, which is why virtually all sourceports of all kinds allow you to go well past those old limits.

Sticking within the visplanes limit is fucking annoying and tedious, there's lots of little shit which isn't obvious, which is why vanilla mappers almost never bother, even if they aren't going into Deus Vult 2 or Gothic 99 territory. Romero isn't different here, he made a 'limit removing' map, like most people mapping vanilla usually do.

>>10835449
Get a better computer I guess?

>>10828058
For DOOM no but nugget isn't compatible with Strife or Hexen

>>10835502
>1 linedef per drawcall should be enough for anyone

>>10835502
Go back to pisscord Graf

Server client network when gzdoom?

>>10837415
They can't even make vanilla Doom 2 run without resorting to Vulkan, what makes you think they'd be capable of writing working server client netcode?

>>10837317
too bad he ragequitted even the zdoom discord

Love how Rachael's proposal to combat, not performance issues themselves, but the complaints about said performance issues was to implement deliberately annoying, deliberately difficult to disable, nagging warnings that say something to the tune of "We will ignore demands to optimize GZDoom to accommodate this mod. Instead, bug the creator to fix the mod, as it's trying to run far beyond GZDoom's capabilities. Better yet, stop trying to run this mod on a poltato pc, you'll get nowhere."
https://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?t=75965

If you're play a gzdoom mod that tanks performance wtf do you turn to?
GZ Devs certainly aint gonna help you, and your computer is meant to be top of the line.
What gives?

>>10837619
Not to mention that one time when some guy made a post on the ZDoom forums detailing exactly what causes such performance problems and where in the code it happens, and the response he got was literally "if you're so smart go fix it yourself".

I tried looking for it myself but I can't seem to find it anywhere anymore.

>>10837796
Someone needs to find this and highlight it.
If this happened, they got some serious explaining to do.

>>10837805
All I remember is that the guy's account was new and had no avatar and the post was somewhere in 2021-2022.

>>10837815
Can we please get some people on this?

>>10820349
No one is forcing you to upgrade, you fucking sperg.

>>10825585
>an increasingly dated backend which isn't really relevant for modern day computers.
stop repeating this bullshit marketing. vulkan is not a replacement for opengl. opengl is not outdated. vulkan is for large teams at aaa studios to squeeze 2% more performance out of their [tired setting] jogging simulator. opengl is for smaller teams and individuals. gzdoom is made by a small team and i can guarantee the vulkan backend will perform worse overall. most projects that switched to vulkan got worse performance and switched back to opengl for their mainline release. it's not a replacement, it's not "the future" or any other bullshit. it's just convoluted trash made to satisfy corporate donors, dynamic linking, wake over ethernet, and secure boot.

>>10838113
*like dynamic linking, wake over ethernet, and secure boot.

>>10838113
>most projects that switched to vulkan got worse performance and switched back to opengl for their mainline release.
Such as?

>>10838113
Sure, anon. The API that started 30 years ago and hasn't been updated in 6 is not outdated or in any way superseded. It cannot possibly be burdened by decades of bullshit legacy code or dated decisions that made sense at the time due to hardware constraints compared to the one that started in 2018 and got an update less than three weeks ago. It's not that Vulkan is any better, it's just that big corporations just love wasting metric tons of money working on something that is in no way supported better by the modern hardware produced. They're just bored. I think anon here is onto something. Could be big facts. Could also be schizo/vr/enia. I'd tell you to self-diagnose but I'm sure you've already spoken to the 3dfx Voodoo2 in your retro (and only) PC on that matter.

>>10838113
if your indie game requires hardware accel to run, it's a shit game
minecraft and stardew valley didnt need gpus to be good games

>>10824448
Zandronum just got a big beta update.

>>10833634
>>10832504
Romero also couldn't work out the GZDoom options menu when he bandwagoned playing Myhouse.pk3 and played it with texture filtering on.

>>10823532
I have a 6700xt and it barely runs Doom RTX.

>>10837796
was that the guy who works at nightdive? I remember one of their employees discussing the performance stuff

>>10838559
SVKaiser?
Now that you mention it...

>>10820343
Selaco devs are the only ones that brothered to fix the fucking mess that GZDoom is.
Fuck, they even hinted the possibility of a Switch port (GZDoom runs like fucking trash on ARM and you have Delta Touch as proof)

>>10838754
I may have been thinking of Edward850 and all his recent posts are on Doomworld, so it's probably not him

>>10838781
have they written about what they did? it seems like there are so many places for optimization, it'd be interesting to read about

>>10838781
that's interesting if true. they have to release their source code, don't they?

>>10838867
Yes, if they don't they can be thrown in prison

>>10838781
>>10838845
>>10838867
They got the menus to run on more than a single core, which is an achievement but it's not the immense achievement it's been reported as.

>>10838896
This is wrong. They are doing texture and model streaming through multiple cores. I helped them test this on Steam Deck last year

GZDoom needs fixing bad

>>10839864
Rather than fixing GZDoom, why don't we engooden its competitors?

>>10839873
>Rather than fixing GZDoom, why don't we engooden its competitors?
What does engooden mean, and why would we want to do that instead of forking GZDoom and fixing THAT?

>>10839873
There are a lot of mods made for GZDoom that can't be played on other source ports.
I just so happen to want to play them

>>10820349
God I hope they fix shader hitching in Vulkan by then, heh.

well gzdoom is dead now because a tranny was soliciting underage forum posters for nudes

>>10820172
Isn't the G in GZDoom derived from OpenGL?

>>10841812
It's Graf Zahl Doom

>>10820146
god I hope so. the main dev sucks.

>>10841905
And ZDoom?

I used to run Zandronum and PrBoom+ until about a year ago, played on those for a long time. Caved and got GZDoom and I keep forgetting g the other two exist now. It's just easier.

>>10841931
Zahl Doom

>>10841931
Z Doom. "Z" being the last letter of the alphabet.

>>10824104
yes, it's the patrician choice

>>10840324
You can always just stop wanting that.

>>10841931
Zalty Chicken Doom

What really need fixing is Doom Builder. It still blows my mind how hard it is to do anything in this day and age. We need a decent WAD editor that doesn't require an 8 hour course to change a texture or having to jump through fiery hoops to make custom skyboxes work. Same for anything coding related, shit takes three times the work it deserved to take.

Doom builder needs a complete UI and function overhaul.

>>10842334
>doom builder
>hard
anon..

>>10837619
Man, I hate that retarded troon. Nothing good has come from him.

>>10842334
Doom Builder is one of the most easy to use level editors in the world, what the fuck are you talking about?

>>10821996
I might upgrade to a 4060 once I get enough use out of my 3060, but even that's pretty good.

>>10824864
One of my first Doom experiences will end up being Doom 32x Resurrection, so that pretty much reveals how old I truly am.

>>10842334
Be glad it's not like whatever the Columbine kids made in order to make THEIR wads.

>>10842334

>>10838465
If you had to make that shit with AI, then you're a lazy fuck.

Ok cool, but can I play myhouse.wad on anything OTHER than GZdoom?

>>10842474
Unfortunately, you are stuck with JizzyDoom for all your Brutal MyHouse needs.

>>10842479
Good enough, as long as there's an alternative.

>>10842334
I can only imagine that trying to use DEU or DeePsea would outright kill you.

>>10842507
I've used Sonic level editors that were even harder to use than all of those. It's pain...

>>10842509
>textured first person 3D editing mode using your mouse
>really intuitive interface and keyboard shortcuts
>built in nodebuilders which were actually pretty good and reliable
>runs natively in Windows
>came with an easy to understand beginner's guide with clear pictures
>didn't cost anything at all (unlike some other editors)
CodeImp and Dr.Sleep are heroes, map editors for Doom was a wasteland before Doom Builder. I remember when it was new, it was so easy to use that it was actually fun.
I was still a newbie kid back then who just crudely threw shit at Skulltag hoping to make it work, so I wasn't making any masterpieces or anything, but goddamn it was so EASY. I always loved to doodle, so for me Doom Builder would satisfy that beyond what I could get from crude sketches in the margins of my math notebook.

I've had mixed experiences with FOSS software overall through life, but the Doom Builder series is probably the best example of what they should be, it's left all the alternatives in the dust.

>>10842581
All I read was "nodebuilders", and I was immediately hooked.

>>10842589
Something's gotta build your nodes and BSP tree and all that.
Not all old map editors had them built in, combine with the slower computers at the time making this lengthy, and the fact that they just weren't very good, and you could wait hours for them to build only for you to return to your computer and discover that it fucked up for some reason.
Usually the old ones would have a very difficult time with too fine detail (too many vertices and linedefs too closely together), so if you wanted to do that kind of shit you had to really pray that you wouldn't have to redo and compromise what you were going for.

>>10842652
I've been learning node stuff via shit like Chainner and Toon Boom Harmony, so this should be easy to adapt to.

>>10842670
What is there to learn? The software does it for you.

>>10842581
The worst part of Doom Builder is that nobody has ported it to Linux.

>>10842676
EVEN BETTER!

>>10842334
Anon...
Doom Builder is easy to use, even a retard can do maps easily with.

>>10824448
Be the change you wanna see

>>10839925
Try fixing shit that's already made and bloated to all hell, wired together in the most convoluted of ways. That ain't happening, as cool as that'd be.

Vkdoom is trying by changing the renderer, which does help but it's already outdated on features plus graf zahl said he's considering vulkan only for gzdoom 5 already

>>10842851
Moral of the story: Only use Chocolate Doom if you want to play Doom in its untouched form.

>>10842853
Yeah I really dont know why you'd play unmodded doom gameplay on anything higher than like prboom+

Anything after that is big mod territory only

>>10842887
Then that was my first mistake, because I would've originally went the 86box route.

>>10842887
For me, it's Nugget. I like the visual options.

>>10821023
For me, Doomsday was a great introduction to source ports, because it's so easy to setup. But I cant deal with the weird darkness filters.
Is it only me? Doomsday looks like it has a weird darkened circle around the screen that I didnt notice at first, but couldnt stand once I noticed.
Switched to PrBoom+ and never looked back.

>>10838492
Ah yes, Daikatana. Romero's Magnum Opus and a true exhibition of his programming abilities when Carmack is not around to save his dumb ass.

I SAY DAIKATANA, YOU SAY SORRY.

DAIKATANA

>>10842507
or Hellmaker, or DoomCAD, or Wadauthor
I have actually used all of these.

>>10842682
dotNET is FOSS now, it should be possible.

>>10843552
Or ZETH.
Early ZDoom maps were made in it

Someone should put GZDoom on a nasa supercomputer

i can run this shit on 7+ year old laptop no problem as long it's not slaughtertrash, the renderer ain't the culprit, the real problem is the monster logic being both leaps and bounds more complex than vanilla while also running on a single core
>>10820146
>Will it ever be dethroned? Can it be?
it took almost 30 years for people to accept the removal of dehacked's stupid bullshit limitations as a (near) universal standard, there is not a fucking chance any sourceport will ever match the ZDoom family in neither popularity nor usage (by non 40+ year old purist fossils)

>>10844273
>the renderer ain't the culprit
it really depends on the map and you can enable the render stats to see
for slaughtershit it can be monster logic
for magnum-opusy maps it can be bsp processing and drawcall overhead
for "modern" maps it can be dynamic light spam

>>10844186
It would still run like ass

>>10822739
>What are they gaining from this express release cycle?
Not much, but the maintainers work in industry. They're forced to work with new software for stupid ideas, or they're made redundant. On the one hand, it's how they're used to behaving without even thinking about whether they should. But it also takes a lot of time to learn that shit and your other knowledge fades as you do. When they step up to the mantle for an OSS community project, if they want to be expedient about something then they end up using the new stuff because they're primed with it/can use it for their work.

>>10844673
No wonder zoomers rely on rust for everything, because they haven't even been in the industry yet.

>>10843265
>a weird darkened circle around the screen
A vignette?

>>10843552
If memory serves me right, Dario Casali said that he created his levels with DoomCAD when he made Plutonia with his brother.

>>10844683
Is Rust really that bad?

>>10844932
It's actually quite easy to read. I've been lurking thru jgenesis' code on github.
https://github.com/jsgroth/jgenesis

>>10844939
>Code
It is just me or Rust looks like a bastard child between Lua and JavaScript

>>10845128
It is, but it oddly works. TiTAN Overdrive 2 runs without any noticeable flaws, if that says anything.

Extermination Day still the best gzdoom wad ive played and it's really not even close

>>10845402
It's pretty good, but for me it's Doom 2 Re-Build-t with NTMAI.

>>10845887 (me)
oh shit.. tabs

Is it comfortable to doom using a chinkheld?

Is it comfortable to doom using a chinkheld?

>>10846625
Demons are trying to claim doom for themselves it seems...

>>10846632
Ive tried and tried and my feeling is that the original games can be played well enough with a controller, but any implementation of mouselook (gzdoom) is fucking unplayable. I dint know exactly why but i cant ever get ththe settings of sny doom port to work well with any controller, speaking specifically about the xyz axis. I really tried too, brutal doom runs pretty well on switch but you just cant fucking look up and down and center back correctly.

>>10846632
I don't have one of those, but I've played through the first two games and Sigil on my Switch. It went pretty well.

>>10846632
It played well enough on GP2X and Dingoo A320. I doubt that modern chinkhelds are much worse.

>>10837796
If this is found, GZDoom may finally be fixed.
Those who shrugged it off showed some extreme negligence toward the solution to a problem that's been plaguing everybody.

>>10820146
>>10830970
The lack of voxel software support almost always making Gzdoom crash was quite annoying so I had to stop progress on this project intended for Software mode

>>10848157
Reminds me of the time SM64 could've chugged less in underwater levels if it had a certain compiling flag enabled.

>>10848205
Woah, this looks awesome!

>>10848205
Woof got voxel support recently, strangely enough.

>>10837796
Was it this?
https://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?p=1120968

>>10848216
Thanks, I might go back to this project and only work on the graphical/sound design instead of testing the game every time so I could convert to a different engine some day, I'm not a coder or a leader.
>>10848218
Never heard of it? Probably doesn't have the proper scripting support I'd need for certain systems like changed ai, escalators and bobbing styles

>>10848241
Woof is for Boom/MBF21 wads, so definitely won't support anything advanced. But it does run Voxel Doom specifically.

>>10848228
yes

>>10848228
They fucking killed him

>>10848273
>"muh feelings" stopped a potential fix from happening

>>10848356
*potentially stopped a fix from happening

>>10848356
Keep in mind this is the same person

>>10848249
Isn't MBF21 considered as "advanced"?

>>10824795
Mini-rant but, Odamex killed competitive. World Doom League is what you'd call a former shell of what competitive Doom used to be. There hasn't been a major tournament in two years now and historically there used to be yearly tournaments and usually even more often than that. What ended all momentum of competitive thriving and keeping us multiplayer-competitive fags satiated really was the forced usage of Odamex by a very specific group of people.

World Doom League used to be known as the "International Doom League" or IDL. As far as competitive doom is concerned, this was the peak experience by far. IDL had the biggest turnout of any online doom event probably ever in 2011 and that would sadly be the last year it was ran. I'm talking like over 130 people signed up to play on a blacklisted server in Zdaemon of all places. All kinds of people from all walks of "doom life" were coming out of the woodworks to play in the IDL. I'm talking like speedrunners, duelists, deathmatchers, etc. There were so many people they had to straight up do a "B-tier" tournament from just the volume.

These IDL events were ran by the UD clan and their leader is permanently banned from Zdaemon. The tl;dr is that he had a hissyfit with the owner of Zdaemon and tried to get him into legal trouble out of spite (their automatic wad downloader was able to crawl through the web and get doom2.wad). So with him being a security threat, he was permanently banned from Zdaemon. What he could still do was run private servers on Zdaemon that didn't interact with the main pool of players so he ran competitive events with his clan and anyone that wanted a "serious" experience would just play in those private servers.

>>10848574
So going back to the the success of 2011 IDL, this guy, the leader of UD, let all of the success go to his head and forced everyone to play on Odamex, which at the time was vastly inferior to all other Doom ports, which is arguably true even now. The experience was so bad that every year after that 2011 event, less and less people signed up to the point where nobody even wants to play or do tournaments anymore. You would think Covid and everyone playing video games at home would spark up another "renaissance-era" for competitive Doom but no. Legitimately that clan forcing Odamex pretty much poisoned the entire community.

To his credit he helped prop up the competitive Doom scene but if he just didn't have that massive ego problem and made an entire port just to evade his Zdaemon ban, competitive Doom likely would be more active than even Quake 3. I'm not even joking. So fuck Odamex, anyone who props that shit up is a shill. The Quakecon events that run Odamex as the de-facto pvp port for their events are a fucking yearly meme and that's all it'll ever be known for.

It's actually sickening to see competitive Doom in its current state when it used to be so. fucking. good.

>>10848574
>>10848575
Didn't Skulltag also have a good competitive scene till shit happened?

>>10848587
The Skulltag lore I'm not crazy familiar with but it was popular with anyone that wanted something Doom but a little different. Like people still played Capture the Flag, Deathmatch, etc, but there were subtle yet significant changes like the overall physics engine of the port. For most of its lifespan it was pretty stable and it eventually evolved to be the go-to place for making and playing multiplayer Doom mods. At the time I did think it was pretty funny when mods like Ghouls vs Humans became popular and all the competitive pvp Skulltag people were getting really insecure and not calling it "real doom" when that place was never "real doom" to begin with.

But I can say the clan rivalry and general drama of that port was second to none. Even if it didn't have the crazy 130+ player events, the active people and all the bullshit they brought with them made that ports experience seriously unique. Like, people were DIRTY about pvp there. And I mean really dirty. Like the lead admin at that time would alias into a clan and pretend to be someone else during actual clan battles. Lots of politics, men pretending to be women and demanding special favors, doxxing, grooming, etc. Like that whole Skulltag/Early Zandronum era could be made into a low budget drama show and you'd all be glued to it.

>>10848228
>waah you fix it i don't know how to code
gzdoom schizos in a nutshell

>>10848613
>Identifies the problem, but hasn't the knowledge of how to fix it
>Shows it to those who are capable of fixing it
>Those who are capable of fixing it decide not to because their ego was challenged or something
The GZDoom engine is crippled and will remain crippled until Doom and its surrounding community dies with nought but a frail whimper, all because some ego-driven troon got his fee-fees hurt.
I am madder at this than Doomguy is about his pet rabbit.

>>10848624
It's funny too, because troons can be capable of making good shit if they didn't let their feelings get to them.

>>10848638
Exactly.
It's cool and colorful

>>10848638
The whole reason for trooning out is feelings. That's like saying you can remove the smell from a hunk of shit.

>>10848624
wow he figured out something that was already figured out 2 months prior

>>10820865
>TNT
do people still hate it because it wasn't released for free? i think its great for the most part

>>10848638
e.g. International Doom

>>10848793
I quite like its mixture of techbase and hell.
Wormhole and any derivative is a great map

>>10848512
It does have a lot of possibilities, but nothing as advanced as scripting.

What if we put ZScript, and all of GZDoom's modding capabilities into an engine that doesn't suck dick?

yes

>>10848962
Go ahead, it's all open source. :^)

I love GZdoom along with eduke32 and Raze

>>10831107
/v/ is too retarded to understand what you are trying to say. Anyway is it possible to get the OG control experience on modern hardware?

>>10827721
>Imagine someone writes a source port to Doom 3 and for some reason decides that the game by default should be always bright so you don't need a flashlight anymore, you can play it like any other shooter. And it becomes the most popular way of playing Doom 3 and most new players don't even know it's supposed to be dark

I dunno I saw the uptick of other doom ports for vanillia doom type gameplay. GZDoom is pretty much now a port for people who don't actually want to play doom and don't want to deal with shit like enemies having infinite collision height and just want to install all sorts of crazy mods at which point it's not doom anymore

>>10849246
Most ports let you disable infinite actor height now.

>>10849246
>doom levels
Still Doom.

>>10849371
Actually Hexen levels with Doom skin

>>10849672
You could do that too, GzDoom supports Hexen. Some cool fucker even recreated the weapons from Quake 1 as a mod for Heretic.

>>10849686
It was a reference to the fact that Doom-in-Hexen was the most popular map format for ZDoom before UDMF. It's where ACS originally is from.

>>10849701
Shit, you're right, I forgot COMPLETELY about Doom-In-Hexen. Wasn't that eventually replaced with a dedicated ZDoom format almost 20 years ago?

>>10849713
You might be thinking about ZMAPINFO, but that's a different thing. Also originated in Hexen though.

>>10824448
cope and seethe fossil, no one cares about "competitive" ssg jousting anymore

>>10849246
>not doom
what exactly makes it "not doom"?

>>10850110
arrest yourself and go to bed cranky zoomie, you cared enough to reply.

>>10837987
try to run metadoom's recent version you motherfucking faggot.

>>10850167
is metadoom actually epic like they say?

>>10850116
well hideous destructor, project msx, even brutal doom aren't exactly doom.

>>10850520
Sure, but Hideous Destructor is the kind of thing which can only be made OUT OF Doom.

>tactical shooter with a fairly high degree of realism (by videogame standards)
>managing wounds and injuries, have to stop bleeding, have to put yourself out if you're burning, etc
>managing weapons, as well as loading magazines, experiencing and clearing malfunctions, etc
>gadgets like turret guns, tripwire bombs, breaching charges, ropeladders, jetpacks, medical stapleguns, devices for reloading spent cased ammunition
>can do stuff like shoot through thin enough walls, mount barriers, breach locked doors or otherwise destroy some limited level geometry

BUT, it's not in a realistic real world environment where you're just up against realistic real world opponents.
>abstract classic shooter level design (Doom levels, and .wad levels)
>enemies include dudes with guns, but most are supernatural demons who are vicious cunts with evil magic
>resurrection of dead enemies occasionally happens sporadically through rogue magic energy, or is helped by certain types of Imps, aside from the meaner than ever Arch-Vile
>sometimes, some enemies can destroy level geometry
>certain weapons work better in certain contexts (guns with bigger and heavier bullets will work better against enemies with shields)
>you, the player, can also use magic bullshit against the demons, you can use magic to quickly heal grievous injuries which medical science can't
>Berserk allows you to go absolutely apeshit and tank high damage

"Doom as a realistic milsim tactical shooter" isn't what most people want at all, it's a niche thing, but Hideous Destructor is the best way that this concept can possibly be executed. It's an extremely different experience from the original Doom, but it's still very strongly informed from Doom's fundamental structure and design, and can only exist because of it.

Mods like these I think are one of the strongest arguments there is in favor of advanced sourceports like GzD

Further, as much as Hideous Destructor encourages a very cautious and methodical play style given how much more hostile the game is to the player, once you get the knack for it you can learn how to be a fast and reckless action hero running and gunning. It's entirely possible to take on the big boss monsters in one on one fist fights if you learn all the patterns and behaviors, and plan accordingly.

Sorry for tisming.

>>10850503
for one (1) guy maybe.

>>10849154
Those who can't want to
Those who can won't

I love GZDoom
I wish its flaws would be fixed
I'd be devastated if it were to die

Do people play online much using Zandronum?

>>10852159
They do?
I've seen more people playing MegaMan 8BDM more that Vanilla Doom on Zandronum

>>10848962
I'm dumb and code illiterate but considering how autistic the open source community is about sinking hundreds of hours forking a fork of a project because of one update that added some small inconvenience I assume if some crazy genius isn't doing it, it's probably really not worth doing for some good reason i can't understand.

>>10852159
never seen it's playercount go below 15, even on slow days
>>10852270
>Vanilla Doom
there's your problem

I just want it to stop hitching in Vulkan. Is that too much to ask?

>people come up with 20 other sourceports as the 'real' best one
>several high profile/extensive mods require GZ
This is why. Okay fags, which sourceport should I use that'll run at least 95% of what GZDoom will, and you better fucking agree. I acknowledge that GZ's a piece of shit but it werks just well enough, so convince me out of it.

>>10852443
At least 95% of all Doom-related content is Boom compat or lower, so Woof would run it all just fine.

>>10852447
Well, maybe one day you will learn to actually read.

>>10853517
That is what GZDoom runs, bozo.

>>10853524
Does it have ZScript? Decorate? ACS? Any of that good stuff?

>>10853529
That's not "95% of what GZDoom will run."

>>10852443
I can play myhouse.wad on JizzyDoom apparently, so it's close-enough.

>>10822739
It's open source dude if I want to download a version or even make my own version that supports up to early 80 ibm pc I can. Unlike paid software you can also download old versions legally

>>10824858
They already have that, except it's a hundred different versions of GZDoom for each mod.

I play smooth doom with software visuals all vanilla options

>>10854045
In GZDoom?
There is a MBF21 version of smooth doom now if you're interested.

>>10854110
A new one? Because there's been one for vanilla that's been around for years.

>>10854120
Yes, it came out last year, it's close to the original ZDoom Smooth Doom.
https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/133318-smooth-doom-on-mbf21-dsdhacked-standard-edition-v5-and-classic-edition-v3-released/
I tried it in DSDA.

>>10854142
Pretty cool. I'll have to break into it to change some things like the plasma & rocket trails, but there's some really neat things in there. Like bullet casings. Sucks it's not really compatible with colored blood.

>>10827721
yOu HAVe oNLY bEatEN tHe gAME whEn YOU found THe oRigiNal CrEatoR aND BeaT HIM Over tHe HEaD WITH oriGINAL HArDWARe

>>10854318
Does it count if you use Vanilla Essence on default settings?

>>10820146
Is there anything wrong with this though? I think its great the game has lived on for so long thanks to GZDoom.

>>10823214
>eviternity
based... so fucking zased

>>10848784
>issue apperantly "figured out" before
>problems with VRAM management in vulkan on gzdoom/vkdoom are still present TO THIS DAY
You're not making yourself look better, dpJudas. You're still a retard who can't code for shit.
Remember how you changed UDB's renderer from DirectX to OpenGL, only for it to perform worse and be less accurate to how GZDoom actually renders the level? I do.

>>10844427
You clearly don't make levels in GZDoom.
Here's a fun little thing you can do:
1. Load any map in GZDoom, doesn't even have to be a GZDoom map, you can just run vanilla levels
2. Open the console
3. Type in "gl_render_walls 0".
And then just walk around the level in awe, as you see how fucked Gzdoom's culling is. It's literally broken, rendering shit that shouldn't be seen, and it also does not cull geometry by sectors, instead it just culls only if the entire sector isn't visible. Not to mention how raised floors and non-transparent 3D floors don't cull anything either unless you use hacky methods.

>>10854774
>and it also does not cull geometry by sectors
I mean "by nodes", fuck.

>>10854774
What did they say when you told them that?
y-you did tell them, right?

>>10854827
I'm banned from their Discord and I'll be banned on the forums if I try to go back there.

It doesn't matter even if I did tell them. I got some guy to report bugs about the OpenGL ES render bugging out with IQM models and lightmaps. That was in 2022.

The OpenGL ES renderer is still not fixed in the latest official version.

>>10854774
>>10854828
Oh dear.
It seems the same thing happens on Vulkan too

>>10853538
True, GzDoom will in fact run 99% of all Doom content.

>>10854886
Which other ports do just as well.
GZDoom is the chink handheld of Doom engines.

>>10855009
DSDA cannot play, Pirate Doom or Action Doom, to just name a few. Ease your salt.

>>10855059
LZDoom can while running 5 times better.

>>10855059
So 2 wads out of thousands?

>>10855073
I don't need LzDoom.

>>10855082
Do you want me to list the hundreds of ZDoom and GzDoom .wads there are out there?

>>10855097
>hundreds
So like 1% of all the Doom content out there?

>>10855101
So you're getting autismally hung up on informal semantics in a casual conversation?

>>10855104
It's not my fault you got proven wrong.

>>10855106
If you want to get autistic about metrics, the reality is that it's far more than 99%. Of all Vanilla, Boom, MBF, and MBF21 content, there's vanishingly little which does not run in GzDoom, the only notable exception being Batman Doom (which has a compat patch).
We also have Heretic, Hexen, and Strife, along with the advanced mods made for those.

For more advanced stuff that doesn't work in GzDoom we have the old Edge sourceport stuff, almost all of which is completely forgettable, we have Heartland, which is really good, but unfortunately the only worthwhile work there has ever been made for Eternity Engine, and some lingering smatterings of old Skulltag/Zandronum content which nobody thought to update because nobody plays it, and even then it would not be much effort to make that work.

>>10854774
Sasuga, but shouldn't that also not matter for performance with the poly counts jizzy is working with?

>>10855634
It doesn't on a decent computer. That's why if you play Lainos's Comatose with no actors in it, it's not demanding at all, but since he used like 20000 dead zombies reskinned to tall grass to decorate this large and lavish town level, including lots in places which you can't even fucking visit, much less barely see, that heaps ALL of that fucking shit onto the single threaded game logic and it becomes a slide show.

I made a modified version of that level which trims away a lot of that detail to make it more suitable for GzDoom. I also tried to improve culling somewhat in some places, but that probably does almost nothing at all, it's all the grass and trees being cleared out to a minimum which does the difference.

>>10855858
>spawn, walk into open
>30 fps
>remove colongibs
>60 fps
>remove deadmarine
>90 fps
Incredible

Still, it seems multifaceted, my system runs new games fine on med-high settings, I'd certainly call it decent, and I was seeing picrel in some areas. The amount of time it claims to spend rendering sprites is insane. Disabling thing rendering in this spot takes me from 20 to 40 fps, and then removing those 2 actors entirely takes me to 50 (back to 45 with other sprites rendered again), which is still tragic. Proper culling seems like it would help here simply because the rendering is fucked, but then that doesn't help wide open or slaughter maps, and then even if "only" 20% of the frame time spent specifically on these actors seems to be for logic on my system, that's still 6ms, and the budget isn't particularly big.

>>10854629
I like modern FPS controls, so it's a nice treat.

>>10856070
There's much more, you have another type of grass, some trees, and also I think bushes. Here:
http://clovr.xyz/wadsup/doku.php?id=comatose_mowed

>>10856070
You're also left with all the decorative dehacked foliage crowding up the game logic, so it isn't really enough to just disable the sprites, and there's much more.

Can only recommend Lainos's work with enthusiasm, by the way, when it comes to sprawling atmospheric maps heavy on exploration, he is THE best. I've gotten mostly good performance with almost all of his maps on much worse computers than this one (including with mods which used Nashgore style effects), he just goes for broke with Comatose and it's too much for GzDoom. It's too much even for UDB, it made my graphics card hick up while editing.

For slaughter maps, there's also a mod which allows you to adjust GzDoom's AI by distance, so if a slaughter level has a huge box of pinkies somewhere way outside the map and they aren't spawned in for a while, they can be made to just make their calls at a fixed, very slow rate.
This can free up resources by a LOT, and make a dramatic difference on SOME levels.

Maybe naysayers are wrong and it's still possible to optimize GzDoom more than it is, and in ways which aren't insignificant, but as it is it has certain bottlenecks owing to how it's put together, some which can be managed or addressed, some which maybe can't.

Fix GZDoom Noowww
Fixit fixit fixit

Been playing some DSDA, and Chex Quest works fine on it kek.

>>10854005
>Unlike paid software you can also download old versions legally
FL Studio lets you do this

So which mods don't work on GZ, then? I remember one requiring or recommending DSDA but I forget which one that was offhand.

>>10848808
wormhole really was a great map

>>10858240
o7 Ty