/vr/ - Retro Games

I feel like FFX's reputation was ruined completely by the laughing Tidus meme.

Nowadays you ask anyone if they played FFX and it's the first thing they bring up.

>>10827767
There was a while where people on /vrpg/ were shitting on Planescape: Torment saying it's "basic" compared to the stuff /lit/ pretends to read. Everywhere else on the internet (including literary snob circles) praises that game so it came off as extreme contrarianism.
The people who act like Civ stopped being good after 4 are also pretty revisionist.

Pretending that Mega Man Legends is good. Nobody liked that cringe piece of shit back in the day. Everybody wanted a straight through 3D platformer.

>>10827767
>(spawned from Youtube I think)
I doubt Mega Man as a series is relevant enough for there to be a meme opinion about some of its games. I've always thought that 3 was the weakest out of the NES games

>>10827767
>1
rough proof of concept
>2
the classic
>3
refined mechanical peak of the series
>4
ruined the series with megabuster

This is always what the assessment seemed like to me. 2 and 3 trading places based on aesthetics vs raw gameplay.

>>10827767
>NEVER seen anything resembling that opinion until the last year or two
The Great Clement as far back as 2009 said he just inputs a password to skip the Doc Robot levels

>>10827938
I don't understand how people had that opinion. It's a super innovative and clever game with tons of interesting interactions and stuff to find. Like, I don't understand how someone could find out that the buildings that you let be destroyed in the toku fights are things you can restore and rebuild to access their interiors and associated quests and not find that totally cool.

>>10828031
Shitting on MML is something you do to fit in on 4chan, if you don't like it you can fuck off back to r*ddit, you don't belong here. It's our board culture

>>10828034
>muh board culture

Final Fantasy VIII was ruined by Spoony.

>>10827767
>The weird "Mega Man 3 is bad" sentiment I've seen around here (spawned from Youtube I think) has me stunned.
It's a bad game when compared to other NES Mega Man games, to where I feel like 4chan sucking it off is just blind contrarianism. It's very blatantly unfinished.

Outside of that, I feel like Sonic generally has been taken more negatively over time. Even Heroes and Shadow for instance were seen as flawed but decent games, but now they're treated like they're some of the absolute worst games of that generation.

>>10828403
Eh FF8 has somewhat bounced back over the years. If any of them has received more hate over time, I'd say it's FF9.

>>10828434
Shadow was never seen as a decent game, Heroes is overhated now though, yeah

Many people in 2000s were saying that Tengen's NES Tetris was better than Nintendo's NES Tetris. Nowadays the latter is held as a classic, while the former is effectively forgotten, even in general retro gaming circles.

>>10828439
Okay not really decent, just not 'worst game of the generation'.

I thought Mega Man 3 was bad before it was popular.

>>10827767
I wonder how many changes are due to shifting opinions and not just too many contrarians and Youtubers dominating a certain topic.

I don't recall anyone hating on Castlevania 2 prior to AVGN's first episode. Most people liked it.
Not sure when the hate for Zelda 2 started showing up, it was always the black sheep but most people still liked it.

Donkey Kong 64
Goldeneye 007
Yoshi’s Island
Kid Icarus
Excitebike

Those are some games I’ve seen people love years ago, and now more people are starting to talk shit about them

>>10827790
That's only the most famous example of the multitude of things people mock the game for.

>>10828403
It's crazy how much influence e-celebs have when it comes to general perception of media.

>>10827942
>I doubt Mega Man as a series is relevant enough for there to be a meme opinion about some of its games
Anon, were you alive from the years 1997 to 2009 or so? If you were, you'd have seen Mega Man treated the same as Mario and Pikachu and Link and [insert basic video game mascot everyone knows and has played at some point]. Every living male between the age of maybe 28 and 44 have played a Mega Man at some point in their life, and maybe even a decent amount of girls (only basing that on one I knew in school, and the webmaster of mmhp.net, Mandi Paugh). 2 and X are the most likely to be remembered, but 3 was up there too. The Mega Man cartoon spawned a number of memes (derp), and you had tons of Mario Paint videos, youtube poop, song mashups, niconico, that brentalfloss guy, etc. All of that was incredibly popular and well known before the internet was flooded by 3rd worlders and bots.

Did I fall for bait? Is this bait? I really hope so. I'd rather be a retard than believe someone actually thinks this. Just because Mega Man isn't relevant anymore doesn't mean it was always the case.
>I've always thought that 3 was the weakest out of the NES games
Why? Just curious. It's fair if you really think so. Snake Man's theme song alone blows 6 out of the water, and the stages are a step up from 1 and 2. I still prefer 7 and Zero but 3 is pretty fun and maybe my favorite NES release.

>>10828403
I don’t need a TDS schizo to tell me FF8 is a bad game with a nonsensical plot

>>10828687
Absolutely agree with this. I was what, 11-12 y.o. when these games were current? Everybody liked them, same thing with SMB 2. At the very least, the kids who did not enjoy them were a tiny minority.

>>10827884
>The people who act like Civ stopped being good after 4 are also pretty revisionist

How so? To be fair, 5 never clicked for me, while 4 is at least enjoyable, albeit not as much as 2/3/CTP. The newer entries almost feel like a soft reboot to cash in on whatever paradox is up to.

>>10829516
I just think V and VI are good. Every mainline Civ game except the first one is.

>>10829567
The first game is unironically better than V and VI. 1UPT completely ruined the series.

>>10827938
This

>>10827968
>4
>ruined the series
>This is always what the assessment seemed like to me.
When you made it up just now? 4 is a universal favorite.

>>10828434
>Even Heroes and Shadow for instance were seen as flawed but decent games
You weren't alive back then.

>>10829476
You're massively overinflating Megaman's popularity, he was always mid tier popular like Spyro or Pacman.

>>10828434
>Even Heroes and Shadow for instance were seen as flawed but decent games
Maybe it was just the video game message boards I was frequently back then, but when those games were new people reviled them. I've actually seen people having a much more positive view of Heroes than I was ever used to seeing as of late.

>>10829567
Fair 'nuff. 5/6 aren't worst game evar material, but
>>10829571
this and changes in how cities worked (expand at all costs vs small number of huge cities) made for a surprisingly big difference in feel. If you like it, then rock on. I'm probably going to stick with the "muh 1-4 best" camp.

>>10829603
NTA but he’s right. Mega Man really was that big at one point. There’s a reason they made so many spin-offs of it. It was probably the most popular third party franchise 8 and 16 bit eras and it was still very popular for a long time after that. I remember hearing kids talk about it as late as the early 2010’s.

>>10827767
>Mega Man 3 is bad
I'm not calling you a liar but I personally have never heard this claim around here.
>It was also fashionable to say the Donkey Kong Country games sucked for a while there.
Does anybody else remember that hit piece where some retard gaming "journalist" tried to pretend that Miyamoto hates DKC and that he has seething rage over the game because it beat out HIS idea for the 16bit Konkey Dong?

>>10828103
Fuck off back to the orange site, manlet

>>10829603
NTA and I wasn't alive in the 80s but I was a GBA kid and Mega Man Battle Network was extremely popular and the whole series ranks among the best selling games on the platform. The anime and manga were also extremely popular. Mega Man was a big character back in the day, and MMBN was just a spinoff and an already popular franchise.

>>10829591
No idea where this comes from either. The buster is well-meaning but it's so poorly implemented here. They tried to compensate for it's added power by jacking up enemy HP but it ends up slowing the entire game down. The bosses and weapons are starting to get lame at this point and it probably the weakest set of castles too, both 5 and 6 surpass it easily.
>>10829626
Well, right here>>10828434 and here >>10828631 for starters. There was a thread here a week or two ago that had lot of people trashing on it which was my motivation for the thread.
No idea who the DKC journalist was but I remember Jeremy Parish not being fond of it.

>>10829603
His popularity was near Mario/Sonic levels for a while.
Peak Mega Man was 2003. In just that year, there were 17 Mega Man games. Fucking SEVENTEEN.
Rockman Collection Special Box, X7, Battle Network 3 Black, Battle Network 4 Red Sun/Blue Moon, Network Transmission, Rockman EXE WS, Rockman EXE N1 Battle, Battle Chip Challenge, Zero 2, and seven phone games.
All in 2003.

Can you name any other video game series that had seventeen releases in one calendar year? I can't.

>>10829756
Just because it has a lot of shovelware doesn't mean it was actually popular.

>>10829792
>Just because it has a lot of shovelware doesn't mean it was actually popular.
They said the same thing about Princess Toadstool

>>10828031
people dont like tank controls so they hated it then and they especially hate it now.

After playing so many modern games with homogenized controls learning to play something with different controls is fun enough for me though. It also helps that the game has a great aesthetic too

>>10829571
better than doomstacks, much more tactical and terrain plays a bigger role

>>10828031
The game having some neat quirks does not excuse the shit main gameplay.

FFVII was beloved for most of the 2000’s, then everyone hated throughout the 2010’s and you only ever heard about how “overrated” it was and now people are starting to like it again. A similar thing is happening with Ocarina of Time but it’s a few years behind.

>>10830046
>then everyone hated throughout the 2010’s
??????????????

>>10829815
It doesn't even have tank controls, you can strafe in MML.

>>10827767
MM3 is certainly the laggiest one, but it's a perfectly fine mega man game. it introduces the slide, you can't charge yet, music is top notch as always, and ...not much else really sticks out. it's absolutely unhinged if people think its WAY BETTER or WAY WORSE than 1, 6, or any of them really.
>>10827938
you shut your whore mouth Legends is amazing, the vibe is off the charts. it's such an immersive world and story. i feel like they blew the budget on the town though, the dungeons having like one fucking wall texture is shit i'll give you that, but give me this lovely game over N64 zelda any fuckin day of the week.

>>10827767
Most of it is people trying to manipulate prices of games they want to purchase. Such as most hobbies. The poors will do anything to ruin your interests just so that they can try to get something for free.

>>10827790
It's not what I bring up. I bring up the absurd story of the Sad Soccer Player with his Big Bad Mean Daddy. FFX is an embarrassment.

>>10830146
This is exactly what happens with the Saturn and this board.
The average /vr/ goer would kill for a Sega Saturn but they will never admit it.

>>10830147
Yeah, stories must never touch on family drama

>>10830167
Maybe play through the game for more than two hours before making your self look like a complete fool.

>>10830168
Nice try liberal

>>10830172
I too can post images I've found on the internet.

>>10827767
Mario Kart 64, I've seen a lot of negativity towards it and I still dont know why, the game is super fun even if its single player is lacking, I know DKR and CTR have mayor improvements but MK64 is still really fun and imo its a much better multiplayer game than those two.
On sort of a related note, Double Dash also went from being considered shit to the best one in the series and I absolutely disagree with that new sentiment.

>>10830181

>>10830197
So you beat the game September 29th 2022. And you honestly think the game's story is good?

>>10830203
For the most part, yes: https://desuarchive.org/vr/thread/9301019

>>10829476
I meant relevant right NOW because OP is talking about people taking their opinions from Youtube e-celebs. Obviously it was popular back in the days.
>Why? Just curious. It's fair if you really think so
I don't know I just enjoy playing it the least, I hate the Doc Robot stages as well. It's still a good game but I think 4-6 are better than it in every way. As for 1 and 2, I enjoy the simplicity of them and they introduced me to the entire MM franchise which I am a big fan of

>>10830203
>>10830206
I love the game, but only for the end game and otherwise think the story is mostly awful.

>>10830050
that's still tank controls bro..

>>10830243
Tanks can't arbitrarily move sideways mate. Mega Man Legends has WASD, idk what you're talking about

>>10830048
He probably gets all his opinions from /v/.

>>10830048
There was a bit of negative pushback due to the game's incredible popularity (fangirls squeeing about Sephiroth) and the mostly crappy Compilation Of Final Fantasy VII stuff.

>>10827968
>another 2cult faggot with a shit-tier opinion

>>10829591
It is, some retard here trying to spin terrible implementation of resource management as a plus opposed to new mechanics because MUH NINTENDO HARD.
Also 4 had based as fuck Robot Masters.

>>10830497
Yeah, the complilation of FFVII pretty much soiled the hyped for it.

>>10830528
>MUH NINTENDO HARD
Actually I'm glad when someone says that 4 is the hardest because it's objectively true as opposed to circlejerking 1's difficulty. 1 isn't even harder than 2 if you play the regular version (Japanese/US Hard mode). Yellow Devil is also a fucking meme, like for instance MK-II from 3 is way more challenging and yet no one mentions this

>>10830528
It's easily the worst of the 6 NES games (OK, maybe 1 is worst). It's better than 7 and 8 though but that's a low bar.

Fromsoft games now seen as cult classics and hidden gems because retroactive souls aura, king's fields were either flops ignored by everyone or got trashed in the press

Blood gaining more notoriety than Duke Nukem 3D

Fallout 1 is better than 2, Fallout 2 is bloated and the humor is too self aware

>>10830647
>Fromsoft
Y'know, I did enjoy Dark Souls, but that was a real "one and done" experience for me. I can't imagine playing playing something like that but more primitive.

>>10827790
it's still sampled at raves xD

>>10827767
I first noticed this with FFVII suddenly being a terrible game one day and FFVI was the greatest game ever from 2006 - 2014. Then enough time had passed for people to say they liked FFVII again and unironically started seeing "FFVI is overrated" after and it keeps getting stronger each year.

>>10827767
Sonic is much slower than Mario if measured in possible inputs per playtime. Play with emulator rewind and you'll see Sonic is often on-rails for multiple seconds at a time, whereas Mario controls frame-by-frame. This makes Mario more fun.

I always hated the game and thought it was the worst of the original six. But yeah, it wasn't that long ago that MM3 was considered the best. MM2 felt like it was getting trashed a lot around that same time too and I remember that being considered the absolute best one in the 2000s.
>>10828442
I remember this. Wonder if it was because of hoarders finding out how rare it was and astroturfed it to make it more valuable.
>>10828687
Zelda 2 hatred has been around for as long as I can remember. Definitely sometime after OOT came out though. No one minded how different it was beforehand.

>>10827938
Fuck you. You have no idea how much I looked forward to this game coming out and it fucking delivered. It's still one of my favorite games to this day.

>>10830625
>Hates 1
Shit-Shit Taste: Awakening

>>10829596
I was, and I still have Player's Choice copies of both.

>>10831129
But which Sonic fangame refutes this

>>10831426
I didn’t say I hate it but it’s objectively worse than the other NES games except maybe 4. You’re fucking blind if you can’t see that

>>10831129
This is the stupidest thing I’ve ever read.

The Resident Evil remake (REmake), considered by many to not only be the best RE game but the best survival horror game ever made, has only recently seen an autistic effort to claim it "ruined" the original.

You've seen him. We've all seen him.

>>10831459
>it's objectively worse because....NOT ENOUGH AIRMAN MEMES!!
Someone put 2tards to concentration camps, please.

>>10829516
5 had a mediocre launch. Once it's Brave New World DLC came out though, that added enough in combination with mods to put it in the dangerously addictive category. I love the game, but I can't play it. It's too much for me.
>>10829603
LOL! You wish Spyro was ever on Megaman's level.
>>10829606
I loved the opening cutscene of Shadow the Hedgehog, but that's it. That game is terrible.
>>10829756
I challenge anyone to name me a series that had as sharp of a quality decline as MMBN did between 3 and 4. 3 was an incredible game and 4 is one of my most hated games of all time.
>>10829792
Except it was popular anon.
>>10829815
>they hated it then
WRONG.
>>10830193
I think people are just really enamored with the modern Mario Karts so they tell themselves the old ones were bad. MK64 was a lot of fun. It's biggest problem is that it absolutely has rubber banding for the ai racers. Otherwise though, it's very solid.

>>10827767
the N64. the level of hate and anger for it is amazing.

>>10831467
I have not seen "him" and do not know who this "him" is that you're referring to. In my book, REmake is still the king of all RE games.

>>10827790
I miss the memes

>>10831492
I have noticed that on this board at least. Some people just want to console war forever, but I remember the console war being limited to just the SNES vs. Genesis. Then a resurgence with PS3 vs. 360. Perhaps it's just cyclical and there's a new group that hasn't learned the folly of console warring yet.

>>10827790

The only thing I could compare to the amount of hate this now gets is George Bush's second term in office.

>>10831471
Glad you’re retreating to
>”buh buh it’s sucks because it’s beloved enough to have memes!”
You really don’t have a leg to stand on, you know I’m right. Go to sleep junior.

>>10831505
what the fuck do ps3 vs 360 arguments talk about? they share 98 percent of the same library, they have the exact same features and EQUIVALENT specs.

what the fuck is there to argue about?

>>10828034
>appealing to populism on an anonymous website
Irony

>>10831525
I don't know. I think it's that they were both butthurt about losing to the Wii and didn't want to be in last place. Personally, I just preferred the PS3 because it's online features were free.

>>10827968
>4
>replace dr willie with dr cockass

I remember a brief period when I first found message boards in 2002 until about 2004 when the Sega Genesis Adventures of Batman & Robin's music was universally hated online because it didn't sound like the show.
Sonic CD was considered the greatest game in the Sonic franchise all throughout the 90s and it was a damn shame because it was on expensive hardware no one could afford and nobody could emulate sega cd games until 2007 or so and by the time everyone got Windows, they couldn't play Sonic CD on it because it was too old, until 2005 when the Sonic Gems Collection came out on GC and PS2 where a good chunk of the fanbase both flocked too. After that compilation came out, the general consensus was that it was actually terrible.

I reread these pages every day for after school until I got Mega Man Legends for Christmas.

>>10827938
I did want a 3D Mega Man, which we still haven’t gotten. I didn’t like MML but I loved MML2 for being more RPG-like.

>>10832072
Bro it would have been so fucking sick if we got a 3D version of the nes megaman games

>>10828434
>but now they're treated like they're some of the absolute worst games of that generation.
I don't see it. It's treated like a hilarious mess which because it's part of a well known sega franchise specifically sonic gets the derision amplified. purely as a game people probably regard it like a 5/10. a meh platformer.

>>10832078
I imagine Bomberman Hero but with megaman assets

Is there even such a thing as popular opinion anymore? I get the feeling that all opinions exist simultaneously with equal merit in todays social media age. All games are good all games have fans no games are bad let people enjoy things everyone is entitled to their opinion all opinions are valid.

>>10832072
You did, it was called Megaman X7. You're welcome.

>>10832129
lay off the vanilla facebook chuddery a bit. that's proven wrong simply with alien colonial marines existing.

>>10832134
I bought that for $5 15 years ago and still felt ripped off.

I feel like counter strike reaching critical mass popular awareness has greatly diminished socom's standing.

>>10827767
The return of Sonic to mainstream popularity is perhaps the most miraculous comeback story of this century. Someone should truly make a documentary.

>>10832129
There are a small handful of games 99% of people agree are good and another they agree are bad but aside from that, no. Popular opinion is completely fragmented now. And this is true of everything, not just video games.

>>10831968
God the Mega Man Legends games are so comfy, those and Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon are just the definition of late-90's comfiness in game form. I play them and I'm back in 1998.

>>10832412
>There are a small handful of games
ridiculous understatement

>>10832463
It’s an understatement for the amount of games everyone agrees are bad but it’s an overstatement for the ones everyone agrees are good.

>>10830197
kek

>>10831505
>>10831525
>>10831575
As someone who owned a PS3 and never owned a 360, my understanding is that the 360 versions of multiplats were generally better than PS3 like 90% of the time, like in terms of performance/framerate. The only real benefits of getting PS3 versions of multiplats were:
>sometimes, to make up for the performance issues, the PS3 version had extra exclusive bonus content (Eternal Sonata, Star Ocean 4, Tales of Vesperia, the Joker levels in Batman: Arkham Asylum, etc)
>a multiple disc game on 360 is only a single disc on PS3, since PS3 used Blu-rays and 360 still used regular DVDs (Final Fantasy 13, Grand Theft Auto 5, Metal Gear Solid HD Collection, etc)
>free online multiplayer on PSN vs having to pay for Xbox Live

>>10828434
>Mega Man 3 is the worst NES Mega Man game
>Shadow is a decent game!
HAHAHAHAHA

>>10832935
Not that guy, but what do you consider the worst NES Mega Man game? I see a lot of people call 6 the worst, and I don't totally disagree seeing as they fucked up how sliding works and the charge shot just uses a wimpy normal shot sound. But the Power Adaptor is fucking cool.

>>10832942
nta either but 6 is a step up from 4 and 5. The power adapter is a gimmick and the entire game is based around it (and it has really weak master weapons) but you know what? It's a lot of fun running around and punching shit, and I really like the physics of the jet adaptor. I wouldn't want the entire series to be based on the adaptor but for one game it's fine.

>>10827767
Mario Sunshine used to be regarded as the worst 3D Mario games and one of the worst mainline Mario games overall. Zelda Twilight Princess also used to be universally hated. Over the last five or so years there's been a near-180° flip on them, mainly because of zoomers who grew up playing them.

>>10832951
>Zelda Twilight Princess also used to be universally hated
You mean loved on release for not being Celda

I swear back on early 2000s forums, people did not misinterpret the Tidus laughing scene because there was no avenue for them to view it out of context yet (TOP 10 epic funniest gaming moments on youtube). Now people who havent played or barely remember the game reference that moment as if it's the silliest moment in gaming
Yes it is a goofy scene but it makes much more sense in relation to what comes before/after it. Not even a game worth caping for but zoomers acting retarded gets me going

>>10827790
>scene where characters have a silly moment where they attempt to force a laugh
>"Wow the voice acting in this game is so forced xD"
I fucking hate internet memes, they were never good not even back in 2008.

>>10832961
No, once it got beyond the hands of journos it was pretty universally hated. It has incredibly little worthwhile or meaningful exploration for a Zelda game.

>>10833010
What internet were you on? I feel like by especially 2008 the laughing scene began to make everyone really bash FFX. Considering it one of the best FF games for a long while was a hot button topic because people had their ready made responses without playing the game.

>>10832961
Wagglan
(You're too much of a newfag to know this phrase)

>>10833042
In terms of online consensus, "the best FF" has never been up for debate. The answer has always been 7 for the overwhelming majority of people. 10 is to zoomers what 7 was for millennials.

>>10833049
Haha. What.
FF7 was always contested because you had the nostalgia ridden FF6 people come out of the wood work and try to explain to me why the World of Ruin isn't shit and Kefka is the best villain cause he's LE CRAZY

>>10833054
6fags have always been an extreme minority, and really only came into being in the 2010s. At most you'd see hipsters try and argue that 5 was the best, but that's it.

>>10833041
TP hate is basically driven by OoT fans who can’t cope with the fact that TP does everything Ocarina does but better. That’s why you see the full court press by people hating TP whenever it comes up.

>>10833049
TP was also on GameCube, never mind that Nintendo fans would be the least likely to complain about motion controls

>>10833041
>It has incredibly little worthwhile or meaningful exploration for a Zelda game.
Oh I thought we were talking about TP and not Ocarina of Time.

People liked and appreciated the Genesis until zoomer tendie youtube "historians" rewrote history to make it seem like a terrible console people only bought it to play EA sports games.

Similarly, also this collective recent gaslighting of people pretending the PS1 doesn't have several gems to make the N64 look like the definitive system of the era.

>>10833151
>zoomers are the ones rewriting history in favor of 90s nintendo consoles
uh huh.

>>10833154
>be early zoomer
>get gifted an N64
>weird demonic system with the power of sucking the soul of their players as shown by their rabid fanaticism
>grow up with a chip on your shoulder because your holy brand "lost" once
>attempt to rewrite history to make your religion look like the winner
it's that simple

>>10831514
How about Biden’s first term, with the only people saying they like it are the agenda-pushing media and Hollywood actors that are afraid of losing their jobs and getting canceled by the mob

>>10833159
>be snoy
>mulatto
>latest stepdad has a ps1
>it now reminds you of the time you had a male role model for 3 months
>"win" 2 generations
>feel unstoppable
>snoy always wins
>nvm, ps3 is flopping
>how could this happen???
>18 years pass
>still utterly mindbroken
>switch soon to outsell even your precious snoystation 2
>already has outsold it if you filter out the people who only bought it for DVDs

>>10827884
Its hard to get around just saying 1upt nukes single player. Its boring to keep reiterating it but it's just like flipping the "AI can't ever attack a human player without being ripped to shreds" switch

>>10833196
malding lmao

>>10833042
By 2008 sure, once Youtube existed and 7 years after the game came out. I just think there are a dozen better things to shit on that game for than a slightly cringe cutscene, and when people latch onto that over the other faults, it makes me think they're zoomers who talk about games they haven't played

>>10833108
I hate TP because the wolf sections are fucking boring and the world is bland as fuck. I still haven’t beaten it, but plan to do it eventually.

>>10833049
>10 is to zoomers what 7 was for millennials
I'm not saying zoomers didn't grow up on 6th gen, but I really doubt they were old enough to like a game such as FF10 back in the PS2 days.

I'll just say it again since the raging fanatical jannies deleted my reply: it's sad how newer generations paint the Genesis and the PS1 and even niche systems as bad platforms because they didn't have bing bing wahoos. I'm not breaking any rules for stating this and I'm tired of this constant video game history rewriting. There's more than Nintendo out there and people refusing to look elsewhere doesn't turn them into informed, prestigious gamers, but the opposite.

>>10833390
Yeah, the retro gaming sphere "discourse" has always been Nintendo-centric. I'm a dyed in the wool Nintendoid and even I think it's a bit much.

>>10833390
agree 100%, I grew up a nintendo kid most of my life and it took till recently for me to see how great the genesis really is.

>>10830647
Good point with Blood. I barely ever saw people talking about it 15 years ago, especially irl or on gaming related media, and now it has become this grand old classic. I used to come across mentions of Hexen more often than Blood. Nevertheless, it is a good game and well worth the reappraisal.

>>10832935
I never said Shadow was decent personally because I think it's actually good but that doesn't invalidate 3 being the worst. Shit, I'd rather play Rockboard than 3 again.

>>10829792
>a popular thing I don’t like is shovelware

>>10830048
The hype for FF7 was so insane, and its fans were so insane, that there was strong backlash for years. Now the backlash has faded somewhat and zoomers are buying into the hype cycle

>>10830647
Blood was mid then and it’s mid now.
The enthusiasm for absolutely mid FPSes, to the point that Witchaven got a rerelease, is a little nuts to me

>>10833570
I never understood the love for it. I dropped it midway through the second episode when it got rereleased a few years back before the pandemic. It was one of the most boring and tedious games I've ever played.

>>10831103
>Then enough time had passed for people to say they liked FFVII again and unironically started seeing "FFVI is overrated" after and it keeps getting stronger each year.
A lot of that is because of how obnoxious VI fans were for years. It was impossible to have any discussions about FF in general without them coming in and screaming about VI being the best thing ever and VII being overrated trash. In retrospect, VI probably is my favorite FF game but I try not to say that too loudly because I don’t want to be associated with those obnoxious FFVI fans.

>>10833654
any game with an aesthetic that well realized is going to develop a cult following.

>>10833738
Not surprised. Normies tend to be retarded.

>>10833813
>blood is le normie game
you little faggot

>>10830647
>Fallout 1 is better than 2, Fallout 2 is bloated and the humor is too self aware
but that's true

>>10827767
>Like, I remember in the aughts, you saw a lot of people saying (2D, Genesis) "Sonic was never good"
That wasn't common in the aughts. It started around 2016/17 when the Red Letter Media guys said it in a youtube video.

>>10830647
Blood > Duke
Fallout 1 > Fallout 2

blump

>>10835407
I used to post on some middlebrow gaming forum(I think it was the one attached to Jeremy Parish’s old site) and “Sonic always sucked” was absolutely a common opinion there. It was also my first hint I had nothing in common with these people.

>>10831467
Yeah, I've seen the anon you're referring to. Obvious revisionism and anons who like to be contrarian see his spam and think it's becoming a popular opinion and start taking it seriously. It's nonsense. It's a fantastic remake and should be the gold standard. I prefer the original, but it's still fantastic.

>>10832951
Agree with Mario Sunshine. It is the worst Mario 3D game. Not a bad game, but it's WAY to loved these days. TP was always mixed, not universally hated. But it is too highly praised these days, I agree.

>>10828442
>Tengen's NES Tetris was better than Nintendo's NES Tetris.
But anon... Tengen Tetris is superior. Better presentation, music, and you can play simultaneously with a friend instead of having to take turns.
>>10831298
>astroturfed it to make it more valuable.
See above but yeah glad I picked my copy up when I did. Stupid expensive nowadays.

The sonic not being good meme is just the endgame of the sonic blackpill, it's only a thing because the outlook of the series in the mid 2000s was that fucking grim and sonicfags are retardedly easy to blackpill.
In seriousness, Sonic was pretty good, and he's getting pretty alright now. Most people who say otherwise are just blackpilled fags or shitty contrarians trying to stir up shit.

>>10833550
Im still mad MMPU didn't take off.

>>10827767
Mega Man 3? I've even been seeing "Mega Man 2 is bad actually," which leaves MM1 as the uncontested king of the initial NES trilogy. Funny since I distinctly remember the consensus being "whether you think 2 or 3 is better is personal taste but we can all agree they shit all over 1."
On the topic of Sonic, though, the perception of Amy Rose took a complete 180. She was understood to be a joke character. Basically pink NPC fanatic in a dress who's only good for upskirts, showing that our boy don't have time to slow down for ditzy bitches. She even has a gag toy hammer to represent her fickle whimsy. But now that hammer was forged by the Gods and can outknuckles Knuckles. Now she can do anything she puts her mind to (except get a blue quickie but hey). Now she's an example of a strong female role model. Now she can run and jump like the boys, which begs the question - if she can keep up, what the hell's Sonic's problem that he can't tap that ass?

>>10828434
>If any of them has received more hate over time, I'd say it's FF9.
In what fucking world? People glaze FF9 all the time

>>10838203
I don't think FF9 is anyone's favorite but it's hardly a controversial game, yeah

>>10838206
I know someone whose favourite is 9

>>10838210
Well you just blew my argument out of the water.

>>10838143
>Now she can run and jump like the boys
ludonarrative dissonnance

>>10827767
Secret of Mana gets a lot more shit lately, especially on /vr/. I still think it's great.

Any kind of trial and error or you have to memorize something has now become automatic bad game/level design. If you can't no death blind beat a game on your first run, then it's a bad game with no "skill" (this is also why Sonic is supposed to be bad).

>>10838335
doesn't exist, just a fancy term a shit writer came up as an excuse for shit writers

>>10838408
it does. if you're actually going to whine about "lore inconsistency" because characters change top speed and abilities in games you're retarded. they made amy fast because they wanted her to work well with the games co-op. they made her slow in 06 because they wanted it to feel more "realistic". its that simple. cant believe people are actually whining about this.

>>10838357
I'm a big Secret of Mana fan and people's opinions seem whether they played it or not around it's original release. I feel like if you played it as a kid, you're better able to adjust to the game's mechanics and rhythm.
A lot of people pick up the game now and assume it's like a modern "Mash X to win" action-RPG and it's really not like that at all.

>>10832951
Twilight princess
>universally hated
You are on drugs. Windwaker was shit on specifically because fans wanted something like TP. It was highly anticipated and got glowing reviews by both critics and players and sold a shitload.

>>10838210
That someone is me.

>>10840270
>and got glowing reviews by both critics and players
8.8

>>10842168
>8.8 is a low score to this anon
IGN score inflation is real.

I don't really remember infinity style rtwp systems being almost ubiquitously hated.

>>10827968
>ruined the series with megabuster
when 2 lets you spam the metal blade?

>>10828442
>>10836467
nintendo tetris is more popular now thanks to the rise of zoomers competing, and the "rolling" technique

>>10827968
I like 3 the most as well, there's several things I dislike about 4 but the buster never bothered me, then again to be fair I started with Mega Man X

>>10830172
lmao (you)r fucking embarassing

>>10842406
nigga, it used to be memed to hell and back

>>10844232
It's funny because if anything, 8.8 feels too high for it nowadays. Nintendo fans are psychotic.

>>10842406
>>10844232
>>10844404
I feel like people are missing the factor that the REVIEW was terrible and was rightly shat on for implying that TP's problem was that Zelda was inherently just stale, rather than that TP was an exceptionally unimaginative entry that lacked the stand out creative aspects of the series' best games. The score was actually inflated, but the review didn't justify it even as it was by clarifying the game's actual problems.

I'll by fair and acknowledge that it may have been difficult to identify exactly where the game went wrong immediately on release, but it was still a bad work of criticism, despite being 'better' than the other review by at least being honest that this was no masterpiece.

>>10831929
Evil russian scientists are more interesting than evil Germanic scientists.

>>10843135
This kek

>>10831520
>You really don’t have a leg to stand on,
Speak for yourself, retard. Make more baseless elsewhere.

>>10830146
That theory would make sense if MM3 hasn't always been the cheapest and most common entry in the series. Now if they were shit talking 1 or 5 trying to knock prices down, then your theory would be valid.

>>10827767

I had a NES new as a kid and the Mega Man games, the sentiment is correct, Mega Man 3 was bad compared to 2. Mega Man peaked at 2. I gave up on it at 4.

>>10831492
Depends on what you wanted out of the system.
I saved my money for TWO YEARS to buy one on launch day when I was in early high school.
Mario 64 was, and still is, one of the greatest games ever made. Ocarina of Time still blows my mind, and Mario Kart was amazing. ....and that was about it.

The problem was this:
SNES gave me upgraded, incredible versions of my favorite NES games: Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Mega Man, Castlevania, Contra, Ninja Turtles, Final Fantasy. Not to mention that SNES had Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat by this point.
So, I expected N64 to do the same thing SNES did. Which it did... for all of two of those. None of the games I wanted were showing up. The problem is, early in the N64's life, Nintendo believed (very wrongly) that the only way to ensure quality control was to tell all 3rd party developers to go climb a tree, and only release 1st party games on the system. But I never got a Metroid 64. And I'm not gonna lie, I am salty to this day that Macross Crystal Dreams never materialized.

Then I looked over at this Playstation thing that Sony is putting out.
Mega Man 8
Mega Man X4
Castlevania SOTN
Street Fighter ports
FINAL. FANTASY. FUCKING. SEVEN.
so I bought a PS1, and never looked back. I have not paid for a Nintendo console since. I recognize that every Nintendo console since has a half dozen truly amazing games, but it's just not enough to warrant opening my wallet.

>>10845548
Additional side note:
I never had any issue with the N64 controller. it was innovative for its time, and worked great for the games on that system. I have always felt that anyone shitting on the N64 controller is just a retard spouting memes.

>>10829589
>colour is le bad
and people wonder why we got decades of brown and grey games

>>10831467
It's not just one person; even back when it was new I remember joking with my friends about how the candles never melt and "why did the zombies light the candles anyway lol." And there were remarks on how the mansion went from a place that somebody maybe actually lived in to now looking like one of those pay-to-enter Halloween mazes, not that it was a bad thing 'cuz we'd all played RE1 plenty and were excited to see a completely new take on familiar territory.

>>10845954
You do know you have a distinct writing style and sayings, right? You are the exact anon, that other anon you were responding to wrote about. It's blatant to anybody.

>>10827767
anon i think you need to differentiate between public opinion and youtubers

>>10840270
People hated Wind Waker because of the cartoony art design. Toon Link was despised for being too "kiddy".

>>10844508
People hated TP for the brown + bloom graphics, incredibly linear and easy gameplay, and the reliance on the wiimote. Same as Skyward Sword. The only people who like it now were the 9 year old who had their sexual awakening watching Midna dominate Link.

>>10846095
>reliance on the wiimote
TP isn't even an obnoxious waggler, not that Nintendo fans would criticise a Wii game for using the Wiimote

>>10846098
Everyone over the age of 12 repeatedly dunked on the Wii for "wagglan gimmicks". And any game with motion controls whatsoever was thrown into the 'casual' bin.
As I said in my original post, TP has undergone massive historical revisionism from the zoomies who grew up with the game and have never played any earlier Zeldas. I remember how basically every new Zelda game that launched from 2001 to 2015 was considered a new low for the franchise, which is why BotW was such a big deal when it was announced. A "return to form" soft reboot after years of malaise and gimmicks.

People who hate Twilight Princess while praising the fuck out of Ocarina are the funniest posters on this board.

>>10846235
Ocarina was the first 3D open world where you could go anywhere and do anything. I know zoomers won't get it 'cuz they grew up with GTA, but when I was a kid Ocarina's open world was the most amazing thing I'd ever experienced in gaming up until that point. In Twilight Princess you just follow a story that takes you through a linear sequence of dungeons separated by a big empty field to create the illusion of an open world.

>>10846246
Is this bait? It's not really an open world, all the different areas are still boxed off. Yeah Hyrule Field is pretty big but it's also empty. All the criticisms you're lobbing at TP could also easily be lobbed at Ocarina.

>>10846251
Lolno, you're just showing how delusional TP defenders are. You're just wrong about this stuff and won't acknowledge how incredibly restrictive TP is about stuff compared to how actually freeform and organically structured OoT is. They are just not comparable except on a superficial level.

>>10846276
Ocarina isn't even a top 5 Zelda game. It's hideously ugly, choppy, has honestly shit music and was surpassed by Twilight Princess on pretty much every front. Hell, even "non linearity" you're talking about is done much better by the pre-N64 Zelda games. Your love for the game is based on it being the first Zelda game you ever played as a kid and you have convinced yourself it's the GREATEST GAME EVAR for this reason. Don't feel bad, a lot of Ocarina friends are just as delusional as you are!

>NES Top Gun is bad

AVGN damage

in fact let's extend that to other popular "bad" NES games

>>10828434
>Heroes and Shadow were decent
Iirc they were seen as 7/10 and 6/10 respectively, ie. Average/mediocre.
Shadow was laughed at for being cringey
I hated Heroes, it controlled like shit and looked weird. Story was a letdown. I must have been 13ish

>>10846321
TMNT actually won the Nintendo Power GOTY one year, and this was the reader poll. I think it's actually a pretty good game but I see why people prefer the more "crowd pleasing" beat-em-up titles.
I watched some chrongaming video about the NES TMNT and it posited that TMNT is a bit of a demarcation point in generations of NES games. It's a good game but its very weird and unrefined, but the big name games that would come after that are much more polished.

>>10846336
Turtle Mania was huge back then, so as long as the game wasn't complete shit it was going to be super popular + the kids voting in that poll probably followed a guide from the same magazine and knew a bunch of tricks and info on goals that makes the game way more fun to play, otherwise it can be extremely frustrating going in blind (which the AVGN video demonstrates).

That said, I was born in the '80s and I remember the arcade beat 'em ups were the ones everyone got excited over, meanwhile with the NES original people just talked about Donatello being the best and the electric sea weed being a filter that most of my peers didn't get through.

>>10846453
Kids had a lot more patience and tolerance for tough games back then. A lot more than most modern adults honestly. I didn't subscribe to NP and could beat the dam by the time I was 6 years old and could get to the final level by the time I was 7 so I wouldn't consider it too difficult, even without a guide.

>>10846276
>actually freeform and organically structured OoT is
OoT is specifically programmed to prevent you from thinking out side the box. In the Death Mountain Crater, if you come back here with the Hover Boots, you can jump off the edge by the ladder, walk across, and grab onto the other side where the rock is... But Link is specifically programmed to fall down once he starts his climbing animation. You HAVE to take the bridge, even though you and the good Pythagoras have proven that Link can physically clear the gap.

>>10846513
ootfags will never recover from this

>>10846513
There is literally no way to get the hover boots without already having the hammer or completely glitching the game to high hell. That you have to bring up such an irrelevant issue that will never block a single player, and in doing so deliberately ignore all the alternate ways the game does offer (such as, for instance, being able to use either the iron boors or golden scale to get through the Forrest Temple's well waterway without needing to drain it, or use Epona to jump the broken Gerudo bridge) is telling.

>>10831467
Crimson heads were fucking terrible concept, that added a lot of unnecessary busy work and that is why I rather play the original

>>10846936
this except the exact opposite

>>10846948
Crimson heads were fucking amazing concept, that streamlined the gameplay and that is why I rather play Resident Evil 6

>>10827767
A lot of these are because of celebs influencing impressionable viewers who probably never played the games.

>>10827790
the remaster ruined its reputation