/vr/ - Retro Games

>>10810347
It's a loud minority of cultists.

>>10810347
contrarianism (autism)

Imagine if GTA5 was on the Saturn though. It could've been saved.

>>10810452
frfr on cuh

>>10810347
Not the console itself, but the history behind its creation. I've never seen such a successful worldwide company suddenly turn so dysfunctional and destroy themselves in just 4 years.

The Saturn is the poster child for everything Sega did wrong.

i guess because its kind of like an obscure console (e.g. 3do, jaguar etc) that got more games and attention due to being sega rather than panasonic or atari or something.

i actually had one growing up but barely used it once we got an N64 and later a PS1.

>>10810462
>The Saturn is the poster child for everything Sega did wrong.
thats not true there were far worse consoles. what fucked it over was its shitty us launch.

>>10810347
It's one of my favorite consoles to display.

>>10810347
It has fun games

>>10810674
what are you talking about. it literally has no games

>>10810347
Would a proper Sonic game at release save, or at least help, the Saturn?

>>10810347
>A lot of people loved the megadrive and wish Sega had remained a first party. Speculating about things that should have been done differently with the Saturn is sometimes related to this wish.
>I'm not a Saturn expert, but games like Panzer Dragoon Saga, Virtua Fighter 2, Sega Rally, Burning Rangers... were widely praised back then. Saturn wasn't a Jaguar or a CDI.

>>10810347
1/2 autism, 1/2 "ironic" autism

It's a good console for people who genuinely like video games. Most posters do not actually enjoy video games.

>>10810809
saturn has literally no games. name one saturn game. you cant

>>10810347
Because it's hard to emulate on both the MiSTer and PC. So people had to buy their own Saturn and an ODE. Plus the games for it is worth checking out. Makes some Nintendrones and Sonyncels seethe.

>>10810809
True it's such an easy system to enjoy. Part of the magic of the saturn being a piece of shit is that most of the games are like 2 hours long. So you could sit down and experience all of panzer dragoon in one sitting. Or bulk slash, shit like that, the library is very approachable. There's some good long ones too. The controllers are awesome

>>10810676
>>10810810
Even though this is obvious retarded bait that doesn't need an answer, I'll give you a few anyway: Radiant Silvergun, Bulk Slash, Die Hard Arcade, Panzer Dragoon Saga, Shining Force 3, the best console port of Quake

>>10810809
Yeah, the high energy sega games and the shit tons of low commitment shooters and other arcade style games make it ridiculously easy to just pick up and enjoy. There's no downtime with the console.

STOP ENJOYING SYSTEMS THAT AREN'T PLAYSTATION, ZX SPECTRUM OR AMIGA

>>10810860
never started my good man

>>10810818
this isn't true at all. emulation on mister and PC is solid and straightforward

>>10810347
We troll newfags into thinking it’s a hidden gem with a killer library. Then when you got em on the hook, tell them Nights is a killer app too kek

>>10810347
sega as a hardware maker is the ultimate easy target for console war shit, because it had a string of early console deaths and because people here don't play enthusiast games (just look at the top PS2 and SNES lists around here)

>>10810937
>namefag calling others newfag

>>10810347
Because it's fun to speculate how things could've gone for Sega as a console manufacturer had they not spent the entire Saturn era sabotaging itself at every oppurtunity.

>>10810931
Not according to my experience. The PC and MiSTer has issues.

>>10811043
I had been seeing glitches with some games in the mister saturn core up until the most recent release from march 23rd? or so. now it's much better

/vr/ has a particular fascination with the Sega Saturn for several reasons. Firstly, the Saturn represents a unique period in gaming history when Sega, a well-known gaming company, competed against Nintendo and Sony. This rivalry and the Saturn's role in it make it an interesting topic for discussion.
The Sega Saturn has a cult following due to its distinct features and quirks. It was one of the first consoles to support CD-ROMs, offering a wider range of games and multimedia content. This allowed the Saturn to have a diverse library, including both Japanese and Western titles. The console's powerful hardware also led to some impressive technical achievements and unique gameplay experiences.

Thirdly, the Sega Saturn faced various challenges during its lifespan, such as high production costs, limited third-party support, and competition from the PlayStation. These factors contributed to the console's relatively low sales and a sense of underdog appeal. The /vr/ community often appreciates and celebrates the underdogs in gaming history.

Lastly, the Saturn's niche status has led to a dedicated modding and homebrew community. Many users on /vr/ are interested in retro gaming modifications, and the Saturn's unique hardware and software provide ample opportunities for experimentation and customization.

/vr/ is obsessed with the Sega Saturn due to its historical significance, unique features, underdog status, and the opportunities it presents for retro gaming enthusiasts to explore, modify, and celebrate.

>>10811074

The Sega Saturn holds a special fascination on /vr/ due to its historical rivalry with Nintendo and Sony, its cult following stemming from its diverse library and technical achievements, its underdog appeal in the face of challenges and limited sales, and the opportunities it offers for modding and homebrew exploration, making it a subject of intense interest and discussion within the community.

>>10811074
Thanks Google Bard

>>10811074
>>10811109
Fuck off, Chat-GPT

>>10810347
>Ugh... what could have been...

>>10811147
It's the level of effort this thread deserves

>>10810347
>cool console
>most didnt experience it in its heyday
>great jap exclusives
>many arcade classics
>esoteric aura
>sega autism
etc.

it's got all the ingredients for cult status. I just got into emulating it and I wish it was better marketed and ported more jap exclusives (namely metal slug, I was a huge metal slug autist as a kid). its library was much more in line with my taste as a kid than the ps1.

>>10810347
Refer to >>10801936

Gorgeous aesthetic. Still one of the best looking consoles to this day.

>>10811273
Fuck yeah great thread, died too early

>>10811278
Love the model 2. It's a small detail but I like how the SEGA logo is placed above the controller port for some reason.

>>10810347
As a Saturn autist, a handful of things:
1. Japanese shit we never got.
2. Fun arcade games from SEGA, which is what I wanted the console for in the 90s in the first place.
3. Very different ways to control games that were fully supported by most of the games I like: arcade stick for arcade games, steering wheel for steering games, light gun for light gun games, Mission Stick for flight games, fuck's sake even the mouse and Twin Stick (twin stick can be adapted for use for FPS and Panzer Dragoon games)
4. In system storage. I shit you not this was a factor in me getting a Saturn over a PS1 since PS1s needed memory cards. (Then I was pissed when I turned mine on one day and found out that all the saves were wiped; I never had a memcart but now my cart slot is taken up by a PSKai cart and I transfer saves to and fro floppy... yes the Saturn had a floppy drive)
5. NetLink. This came about very late but was extremely interesting to me, but we never got it since it was like $300. For reference this was in a time when desktop computers were like $1500-$2000.
6. Did I mention Japanese shit we never got? Back in the day everyone had a GameShark / Action Replay, including me, since it also served as a region unlocker and you could import arcade style games from Japan, as well as hack games for saves. (I knew about the "swap trick" but I could never pull it off BITD; if I could I probably would have bought pirated games at the flea market)

>>10810347
Saturn is an actual gamers console. If you don't own one you're a casual shitter. That and conformists obsession with reasons-why-failed videos.

>>10811301
Saturn's problem was that Sega focused on Japan when it was the Western Market that made Sega all its money.

I mean seriously. The Western countries bought most of Sega's arcade machines, and bought the most Mega Drives.

How did Sega show their gratitude? With a shitty Saturn launch and then ignoring the West for most of the generation. All to focus on Japan.

No gratitude at all! Thanks Sega.

People tryna lure youtubers to make videos on this shit and manipulate its price so they can cash out, the console itself fucking sucks

>>10811482
The part you're leaving out is where you're the one who FOMOs into buying an overpriced Saturn off eBay after watching a video essay.

No-saturners can play, but they deserve to pay more.

>>10811301
Also the Saturn (jap) controller is more comfy than the PSX

>>10810347
I had mine since I was a kid, so I've always had nostalgia for it. By 2000, it had trouble reading the game discs since they were all scratched to shit. I pulled it out of storage back in 2018 when I bought a Pseudo Saturn cart. It opened my eyes to all the games I missed out on.

>>10811330
>If you haven't owned one since the 90s
ftfy
>>10811482
sour grapes, you missed out

>>10810347
>Why is /vr/ so obsessed with this console?
It was a console that was very publicly visible but had very little play time.
It sits right at the perfect spot for everything /vr/ is about - nostalgia.
Most people didn't play it all the much, if at all, so when they think back on it they can fill in the gaps with positive memories. Especially the people that wanted the console but never got it for one reason or another. Some are people that ONLY had that console, so they over inflate its value to in an effort to believe they didn't miss out on something better.
A lot of people here weren't even born yet when it was trying to be relevant, so they can only try to add extra weight to the "Saturn would have been good if it was good" argument through stats they pulled off a wiki.
Overall, it was a shit console. Price point, library, distribution networks, etc. were all terrible compared to its competitors. Even still its biggest selling point is that it could produce some decent arcade ports, while people promoting it seem to forget (or never knew) that the reason that gen did so well was because people were fucking done with arcades' bullshit.

>>10811750
If you genuinely believe people only care about nostalgia you're an out of touch business nerd

>>10811750
>the reason that gen did so well was because people were fucking done with arcades' bullshit.
>also I’m bad at games
many such cases on this board

>>10811750
I bought it back in the mid 90s.
I played it a lot, it has a lot of good games.
Don't care about "muh SoA history! Muh distribution issues!" I just got one back then with a modchip and got lots of japanese bootleg games.
I also had a N64, PS1 and PC.
Your argument is weak.

>>10811860
>I just got one back then with a modchip and got lots of japanese bootleg games.
So you basically bootlegged the console and didn't support Sega or Game Developers at all? You are just a poor pirate. Your argument means nothing.

I bought one at a pawn shop in 1999 for $20, bought an action replay cart, and started importing games after that. I bought the last copy of Battle Garegga some import site had for $30 and I was blown away. Imported a lot of stuff in the next few years.

homosexuals

>>10810676
No flagship titles in the 10 or so franchises /vr/ endlessly talks about = no games

>>10812265
I don't care, I got to enjoy the Saturn back when it was new and I continue to do so.

>>10810347
Closest any console has ever gotten to feeling like an "arcade in your living room".

>>10812368
PFFFFFFFFFFFT! SUUUUUUUUUUUUURE...

>>10812730
That's the Dreamcast

>>10811759
retard
>>10811854
>many such cases
zoomzoom
>>10811860
>saturn would have been good if it was good
lol, every time

>>10812958
>lol, every time
I never said it wasnt already good tardo. The circumstances about its american release (a lot of it biased information by ex SoA guys btwn) are unrelated to my enjoyment of the console.

>>10812958
If you only play games because they sold well you're a business nerd aka one step above casual

>>10810851
These all suck. Only good game on the system is Panzer 2 and I will die on this hill.

>>10812958
Dismissing a game because it didn't sell well means you're one step above a casual, aka a business nerd

Had a great library of games, but its life was cut a bit short. I feel like it had more potentional.

>>10812980
>puh-ten-shuh-nul

>>10812976
Based Zwei enjoyer. But you need to play more Saturn.

>>10812976
You don't like Bulk Slash? Are you retarded? I mean taste is subjective and all but shit, you must be a chore to be around

>>10813058
I hate all cringe tranime games

>>10810676
Nigger.

>>10813069
Honestly I don't think anime got cringe until the 2000s. In my opinion 90s anime has an entirely different feel to it

>>10810360
This

Also sega was unique but it's definitely overhyped other than it's design (genesis/32x/cd wasn't as bad though)

Why does the Saturn trigger certain people so much?

>>10810347
I would buy one if the prices weren't stupid high. I can't see what it has that wasn't already on ps1 though other than maybe a few racers

>>10810347
making fun of sega will never get old

>>10813058
No I don't because its not a good game. You only like it because its "obscure" and has anime girls in it.

>>10812967
>it's not that it was not good
>it just wasn't good as it was
>just change a bunch of stuff about it
>and ignore the alternatives
>and it's good
lol, every time
>>10812979
>sales figures
nobody gives a fuck about sales except zoomzooms
What the fuck are you even referencing?
Want to know why your wiki browsing showed poor sales figures? Because it was a shit console with shit games that even made the N64s catalogue look like the Library of Alexandria.
You're not in some alternate reality, where it was some misunderstood underdog because of "muh sales figures." It had a MASSIVE marketing campaign (the equivalent of all your fotm streamers shilling it) and it still flopped because it sucked.
No amount of delusional contrarian weeb tears will change that.

>>10813105
>>just change a bunch of stuff about it
I never said anything close to that.
I just had a Saturn back in the 90s, enjoyed it, and I continue to enjoy it. Nothing has to change.
Cope.

>>10813105
>nobody gives a fuck about sales...
>...it still flopped because it sucked
>t. business nerd

>>10813127
>t.
zoomzoom

>>10812976
Bulk Slash and Die Hard Arcade are good imo. I don't personally like Radiant Silvergun but still consider it to be one of the "important" games along with Saga which I've not yet played

>>10813143
>boogeymen
masterbateman

>>10811750
Your issues with the Saturn stem from dislike towards what it sought to do and why it's beloved by some in the first place. Niche/arcade games are very different in their nature from the more popular games of the time, and the people who were "done with them" weren't the people who would be interested in the Saturn.

Twice as powerful than PS1. Came out a year prior. Conserved performance through using quads and no transparency. Badly used by all devs.

>>10813104
No I just like 90s arcade games lmao. I don't watch anime. The anime girls in the game are just a quirky curiosity, the gameplay is where it shines.

>>10813176
>powerful
powerful enough to tank a multinational company

>>10810347
>1 thread every weak
>obesessed

>>10813186
Proofread, drink water, go to bed

>>10810347
It has ps1 like graphics and audio which many enjoy and it has a huge library of Japanese games we never saw in the west. It can be a fun console to explore when you're deep in the /vr/ rabbit hole.

I didn't have a Saturn back in the day and feel like if I did I probably would have felt I made the wrong choice. I wouldn't have known anything about how to get imports or modchips back then, nor would I have cared about shmups or RPGs.

Now that we live in the future and I can play any Saturn game easily, I think it's a very worthwhile console and I'm glad I own one. I won't deny the PlayStation has a larger and more varied library, but so what? There are still plenty of Saturn exclusives, or games that are better on Saturn than PlayStation (tactics ogre and parodius are two games I'm playing currently that I could instead play on PSX, but the Saturn versions are superior).

Really I think it's sad that people still want to console war over long dead systems when we live in the future where we can easily play them all.

>>10813375
>tactics ogre and parodius are two games I'm playing currently that I could instead play on PSX, but the Saturn versions are superior
Can you delete this? Goes against my agenda

>>10813857
Don't you want to play the best?

>>10813069
They why do you like Panzer

>>10810347
Because it had the best dpad

The Saturn is real and heterosexual.

>>10813161
>Niche/arcade games are very different in their nature from the more popular games of the time
Yeah, who could forget such classics as "Street Fighter Clone: Iteration 3, Championship Edition" and "Rail Shooter 2" and "Game People Played Last Year."

No amount of rehashed games that have been imported in a flat rate envelope that's been folded 10,000 times will change that it was a shitty console that tried to rest on a company's wilting laurels.

>>10816015
shut up

>>10816015
curious to know what an elite gamer like yourself even enjoys. At this point Saturn hate on this board feels like contrarianism

>>10810362
>>10811074
These two posts effectively say the exact same thing.

>>10810462
>The Saturn is the poster child for everything Sega did wrong.
No, that's the 32X.
>>10811474
>Saturn's problem was that Sega focused on Japan when it was the Western Market that made Sega all its money.
You can blame that on Sega of America. Instead of moving on they tried to stick with the Genesis and go with the 32X. When that failed they were caught with their pants down and had to pivot to Saturn and they weren't prepared for that. As a result they had to rely heavily on Japanese software as they had no western focused software ready, they threw all of that at the 32X instead.

>>10816093
>32x
Sega 32x could have worked if Sega of Japan didn't announce Saturn early? Did they even tell Sega of America they were launching the Saturn the same year? I'm sure if Sega ld America had known, they would have ever made the 32x.

>Instead of moving on
America and Europe weren't ready for Saturn yet. Genesis had at least another year of life left. Some European counties didn't even get Sega Genesis until 1993.

Sega of Japan was not in sync with the rest of its branches. They should have waited until 1996 to launch Saturn, and do a simultaneous world wide release.

>>10816176
> I'm sure if Sega ld America had known, they would have ever made the 32x.
Sega of America was well aware of the Saturn as early as 1993. They were asked for input in it's design and everything. They didn't want to move on from the Genesis and told this to Sega of Japan when they were asked for input. Sega of Japan then came back with "So what can we do to help you compete against upcoming systems like the 3DO, Jaguar, and PS1?". Out of that conversation came the 32X. The idea was Saturn for Japan, 32X for US and Europe. 32X was dead on arrival though so they had to change directions fast.
>America and Europe weren't ready for Saturn yet.
Yes they were. 16-bit software sales were starting to decline. Games weren't being sold at full price but instead being discounted and bundled together with other games to get them to move. In Sega's case a lot of them were being returned and sitting in warehouses.
>Sega of Japan was not in sync with the rest of its branches
They were fully in sync and gave the American branch exactly what they wanted. The American branch simply misread the market.
> They should have waited until 1996 to launch Saturn
That wasn't an option as the 16-bit market was declining rapidly. And in Japan it was extremely dire, they needed a new system and it was time to move on as the PS1 proved.
>simultaneous world wide release.
Sega of Japan offered this idea to Sega of America in 1994, they declined.

>>10816197
>They were asked for input in it's design and everything.

This is false. Sega of America told Sega of Japan that they didn't like the Saturn design, to streamline the hardware, and that 3rd Party Game Developers in America will not like making games for it.

Sega of Japan ignored their warnings, went with a weaker Hitachi Japanese chip (probably due to bribes), and used an oddball double CPU design that even Sega's own design teams (like Yu Suzuki) didn't like.

>That wasn't an option as the 16-bit market was declining rapidly.
SNES was still selling relatively well. 16 bit consoles could survive 1 year. So you're wrong there.

>>10810347
probably has the coolest menu of any console.
had a built in music player with some cool utilities and visualizations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EHpFIZLRR8

>>10817287
SOUL

>>10817274
>This is false.
No it's not. The input they gave early on was simply stupid. They wanted a 68020 based system which would have been stupidly under powered.
>Sega of America told Sega of Japan that they didn't like the Saturn design, to streamline the hardware, and that 3rd Party Game Developers in America will not like making games for it.
This comes from one of the developers who worked on Ghen War. The problem here is that development of this game started around late 1994, early 1995. By that point the feedback was too late because the system was already in production and hitting store shelves in Japan. Maybe if they had actually focused on Saturn earlier instead of dicking around with the Genesis and 32X they could have gotten that feedback to them sooner.
>SNES was still selling relatively well.
Not really. The 16-bit market was in sharp decline. We know this from sales and shipment data that has come out, translated Japanese interviews and news articles from the era, Sega's inventory reports, etc. You can see this in ads and catalogs of the time as well. Sure those games were coming out and being promoted but look at the prices, in many cases they weren't being sold at full retail price. They were being sold at steep discounts, being bundled for free with consoles, etc. to clear them out of stores. And in Sega's case, unsold stock was being returned to them and refunded. As a result little to no profit was actually being made.

Had Sega of America simply gotten on board with the Saturn and focused on a release in 1995, things probably would have played out differently. Instead they misread the market, went balls deep with the 32X, and then ended up in a shitty situation where they had no choice but to constantly play catch up with Sony.

>>10816071
>curious
i bet you are
>elite gamer
zoomzoom
>yourself even enjoys
video games and the respective machines which run them that offer more than hypothetical performance
>Saturn hate on this board feels like contrarianism
reality can feel like anything when one is detached from it as you

>>10816197
Sega of America AND Sega of Europe rejected the Sega Saturn. Your story is just wrong.

>>10816176
>They should have waited until 1996 to launch Saturn, and do a simultaneous world wide release
Ah yes, they should have waited until superior hardware from other companies was already on the market. Who the fuck would want to play Daytona on the Saturn with it's atrocious pop-in after seeing what the PS1 can do?
Something like the PC Engine would have been even more BTFO by the Super Famicom in Japan if they launched it the same year as the latter. Sometimes launching earlier than others is key, it's just that the Saturn launch outside of Japan was a disaster because it was done poorly. They had the opportunity but they fucked up

>>10817415
>Sega of America AND Sega of Europe rejected the Sega Saturn
Sega of Europe was nothing but a puppet of Sega of America at the time. Sometimes they could do something differently, but they pretty much did the same as Sega of America.

And yes, we know they rejected it and wanted to stick with the Genesis. The point is that in hindsight that decision was retarded and is what dealt the most damage to the company overall.
>Your story is just wrong.
How? It literally comes from interviews with the people who made the Saturn, insiders at Sega, etc. All that's changed over the years is that we now have the piece of the puzzle that was missing, the Japanese side of the story:

https://mdshock.com/2023/07/10/irimajiri-speaks-out-about-the-saturn-the-32x-and-soas-financial-troubles/
https://mdshock.com/2020/06/16/the-story-of-the-hitachi-sh-2-and-the-sega-saturn/
https://mdshock.com/2020/06/16/hideki-sato-discussing-the-sega-saturn/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQPFKMx21Sk

>>10817438
>And yes, we know they rejected it and wanted to stick with the Genesis. The point is that in hindsight that decision was retarded and is what dealt the most damage to the company overall.
NTA but the reason Europe rejected Saturn was because they got the Sega Mega Drive late compared to everyone. So Europe were still in the middle of console life cycle in Europe. How can you not see that?

>>10817438
>All that's changed over the years is that we now have the piece of the puzzle that was missing, the Japanese side of the story:
And what do you know...it wasn't their fault and they did everything correct!

>anti-saturn seethers are now reporting random Saturn threads and the clueless jannies and mods get them deleted

>>10817438
>How? It literally comes from interviews with the people who made the Saturn
Get interviews from Sega of America and Sega of Europe. Japan doesn't even understand American laws.

>>10817482
The ex SoA guys also say they're the good guys and japan was evil.
As always when it comes to history, you need to read between the lines.

>>10817437
Nintendo 64 sold 33 million units after launching in 1996. Saturn sold...a lot less. So Nintendo clearly did something right

>>10817502
Read my post again
Nintendo had superior hardware

>>10817508
Nintendo did more than that. They had better business sense and weren't obsessed with launching early to beat Playstation.

>>10810347
Because it’s one of the most interesting consoles of all time.

>>10817438

You should do more research. I recommend you look into Namco. They provide pretty good commentary. Namco of Japan executives have heavily criticized Sega of Japan. They said that Sega of Japan was notorious in the Japanese gaming industry for being financially sloppy, not understanding market trends for consoles, and spent WAY too much cash (even during the prosperous golden era). They predicted that if Sega of Japan did not change their ways, then it would lead to an unfortunate end for the Sega. Namco's predictions about Sega of Japan ultimately became correct when Sega of Japan declared bankruptcy around 2001.

>>10817553
Sega of Japan never declared bankruptcy.
Could you please link to the Namco commentary about Sega, sound interesting.

>>10810347
Only the white sega saturn and grey are any good. The black one was turbo shit

>>10817538
Business sense and the n64. Wow

>>10817553
Yep. Sega was a reckless spender. They still are.

But Namco is a very financially stable company. They consider things carefully.

Sega had to sell their arcade business in 2022. They blamed the pandemic for financial problems.

Namco also had an arcade business. Their arcades survived the pandemic with no issues and are thriving.

Something is fishy with Sega.

>>10817383
>video games and the respective machines which run them that offer more than hypothetical performance
You couldn't have possibly provided a more nebulous, smarmy non-answer than that. Well done.

>>10818318
>you can't say you like video games
>ShallowAndPedantic.jpg
really, retard?
using uncommon words in simple sentences doesn't make you look as smart as you think it does

>>10818680
>I'm going to give you the most basic answer possible to avoid revealing how shit my taste actually is
>OH FUCK, WORDS THAT AREN'T IN MY 1000 WORD VOCABULARY IM LITERALLY GOING INSANE

>>10818779
zoomer brain rot in action
You didn't like my answers because they poked holes in your interests and attitude, not because they were incorrect.
You don't get bonus points for saying you like something that widely panned.

Now, on to your newfaggotry:
>going to give the most basic answer
>to avoid revealing shit taste
>WORDS THAT AREN'T IN MY 1000 WORD VOCABULARY
>IM LITERALLY GOING INSANE
instead of
>This is a comment that's too long for greentext, and probably capitalized for phoneposting reasons, which defeats the purpose of greentext because if you're not copy/paste quoting and you're going to use complex sentences then you might as well try to write a normal sentence anyway
Hope that helped, retard.

>>10810347
It's just the perfect underdog console with games that you either love or hate, usually. Nights, pds, virtual on, burning rangers... These games fuel console war faggotry just as much as oot, there is just more oot posters, like little fucking cockroaches infesting everything.

>>10810347
it was weird as fuck, the games, the hardware, still trying to figure out shit

so you end up with a bunch of strange games that attract strange people

>>10818892
You’re describing PS1 more than Saturn, because 3D was such a new thing on consoles.
Saturn is known for genres that were well-established at the time: fighting, shooter, puzzle, beat em up, racing.

>>10812397
Exactly. It's a decent system if you combined US + JP library but even then I still prefer PS1 and N64.

The most overrated console.

>>10818973
Yes, the N64 is terminally overrated.

>>10817476
> So Europe were still in the middle of console life cycle in Europe. How can you not see that?
Europe got the Mega Drive in 1990, it was just one year after the US. And again, the PS1 came out in Europe around the same time as the Saturn and dominated the market. Sticking with 16-bit was not the right move, PS1 is proof of that.
>>10817482
>And what do you know...it wasn't their fault and they did everything correct!
If anything that's more what you get out of the American side. The Japanese side tends to be more humble and based in reality. They admit their mistakes in those interviews as well as give insight into what was going on during that time.
>>10817495
>Get interviews from Sega of America and Sega of Europe.
American interviews are referenced in those links as well. The Japanese side aligns with timelines as well as with other non-sega related interviews such as those from Hitachi. The ones that don't align, have vague timelines or tend to not hold water are usually on the American side. But hey the American side is more dramatic and entertaining so I guess we should only believe that side.
>>10817502
>Nintendo 64 sold 33 million units after launching in 1996
Nintendo didn't launch in 1996 by choice, If they had their way they would have launched in 1995. Instead they were delayed due to SGI hardware issues. The only reason N64 sold more than the Saturn world wide is because of how bad Sega of America handled the Saturn in the US. In Japan where it was handled competently the Saturn outsold the N64 in both hardware and software.
>>10817553
Provide a link then. And to be clear, I never said Japan didn't make mistakes nor did I say they weren't bad with money. I simply said the US division was even worse in this regard and their desire to stick with the Genesis and 32X did the most damage as far as making consoles goes.

>>10819097
>The only reason N64 sold more than the Saturn world wide is because of how bad Sega of America handled the Saturn in the US.
Delusional. N64 out Saturn because N64 was way better. Mario 64 was a system seller that crushed 3D launch game the others had to offer.

Saturn couldn't get it's shit together and make a Sonic game. What kind of dysfunctional company is Sega of Japan where they couldn't even make a game for their mascot character?

>>10819097
> I simply said the US division was even worse in this regard
Not that anon but you are flat out wrong. You do realize that the vast majority of Sega's revenue and money came from overseas Western sales right?

>>10819113
>Delusional. N64 out Saturn because N64 was way better. Mario 64 was a system seller that crushed 3D launch game the others had to offer.
It didn't crush the PS1. And in Japan it didn't crush the Saturn either. The main issue outside of Japan was that Sega completely fucked up with the release of the Saturn due to the 32X. At launch no one gives a shit about mascot platformers, those people aren't your early adopters. Sony knew this and capitalized on it at launch to start building up an install base. Sega capitalized on this in Japan. Sega of America on the other hand misread the market and was caught with their pants down.

If Sega of America got their shit together and gave Saturn a solid launch, they probably could have pulled off a solid 2nd place finish for that generation.
>>10819121
And you realize a lot of that revenue disappeared around 1994-1996 when all that inventory got returned and refunded? That's what these latest interviews and inventory reports are confirming.

>>10819130
Mario 64 sold more than any PS1 game

>>10819113
Nintendo had two extra years to learn from everybody else’s mistakes and design their console and controller around the one game that absolutely had to be a big seller. 1994-96 was a chaotic period and Sony made the right bet on 3D tech from the start.

>>10819134
>Mario 64 sold more than any PS1 game
It sold ~ 1 million more than the top selling PS1 game, Gran Turismo. Next we compare the 2nd place games on both Mario Kart 64 vs Final Fantasy VII, Final Fantasy VII sold a couple thousand more more. 3rd place is Gran Turismo 2 vs Goldeneye, Gran Turismo 2 sold 1 million more more. Next is Final Fantasy VIII vs Ocarina of Time. Final Fantasy VIII sold 1 million more. Next is Smash Bros. vs Tekken 3, Tekken 3 sold 3 million more. Next is Pokemon Stadium vs Harry Potter. Harry Potter sold 3 million more. Next is Crash Bandicoot vs Donkey Kong, Crash sold 1.5 million more. This trend continues to hold as you go down the top selling charts for both systems.

So congrats, Mario 64 sold 1 million more copies than Gran Turismo. Meanwhile the next 5 PS1 games sold enough to more than make up for it.

>>10819152
>Saturn sells ~200k more in Japan
Epic win for le Shiturn!

>>10819158
>Saturn sells ~200k more in Japan
It's more like 500k more systems. About 9 Million Saturn's were sold and at most 3 million of those were US and Europe. Meaning about 6 million were sold in Japan. So about 2/3 of Saturn's market was Japan. We know by the end of FY98 they had shipped 80 million Saturn games with some games still left to release. So with 2/3 of the market being Japan that would put it at around 53-54 Million games shipped in Japan. N64 Shipped about 39 Million games in Japan according to Nintendo. If you add up the Famitsu Sales chart data for both consoles you get 35 Million sold for Saturn, and about 24 Million sold for N64.

So yes, Saturn beat the N64 in both Hardware and Software in Japan.

>>10819178
Super Mario 64 sold more than any Saturn game even in Japan kek

>>10819218
Looking forward to pointing out a crucial detail you overlooked

>>10819245
Super Mario 64 sold 1.8 million in Japan by 1999 (likely more since then)
https://www.ign.com/articles/1999/12/01/japan-vs-us-sales

Virtua Fighter 2 sold only 1.7
https://segaretro.org/Virtua_Fighter_2

>>10819134
Segafags: Nintendo selling more doesn't count. Also only Japanese sales count unless we're talking about Mega Droive

>>10819130
Cope.

The West buys the vast majority of Sega's products including consoles and arcade machines (which can cost upwards of $90,000 dollars for the high end units). They funded Sega. Sega of Japan was an idiot for ignoring the West. Japan doesn't even come close to the combined market revenue of the West. Without the West funding Sega, Sega would have declared bankruptcy when the Sega Master System console failed. Have some respect.

>>10819178
>3 million of those were US and Europe.
Pathetic considering the US and Europe bought almost 40 million Sega Genesis. What a huge disappointment.

>>10819218
Not according to Famtisu charts
>>10819262
That's not what was being said. What's being pointed it out is how bad Sega of America's handling of the Saturn was compared to Sega of Japan.
>>10819279
>The West buys the vast majority of Sega's products including consoles and arcade machines (which can cost upwards of $90,000 dollars for the high end units). They funded Sega
I'm aware of this, I'm saying if Sega of America had handled the Saturn at least as well as Japan did they probably could have matched or beaten the N64.
>Sega of Japan was an idiot for ignoring the West.
They didn't ignore the west. They gave the west exactly what Sega of America asked for. Unfortunately Sega of America read the market wrong.
>>10819280
You can thank Sega of America for that.

>>10817438
Nice to see that Kalinske understood the issues surrounding the marketing (25:00)

>>10818949
The people obsessed with the Saturn today are usually incels or people like sega lord X who talk like they have mild retardation

>>10819329
I think the general situation is that over the years the Saturn's library has become more accessible thanks to the internet, importing becoming easier, ODEs, emulators, etc. So people are discovering more of its library and realizing it's not as bad as they were told, or in some cases they actually prefer it to other consoles. Some people however just can't cope with this and go out of their way to shit up every Saturn thread on this board.

>>10817438
>Sega of Europe... pretty much did the same as Sega of America

no it didn't, they released or localized more good games that SOA did not. Keio 2 and Parodius comes to mind. They also realized Exhumed was a huge game and started pushing it a lot, which is probably the single reason why Lobotomy did not fold and got to port over Duke 3D and Quake.

>>10819329
>>10819338
In the early 2000s Saturn had a reputation for having a lot of 2D games that were better than on PS1 and for having a lot of good games that were never brought to the US. It usually wasn’t discussed in the same context as the N64. I don’t know what’s happened to online discourse since then or what people have been saying about the system, but it seems to have become a punching bag for fans of a certain console manufacturer

>>10819338
Yeah this board has a weird negative obsession with the Saturn and all microcomputers, also translations have helped the most I think, emulation is still putrid compared to ps1 and even the n64 these days, really wish some autist would just take over and write a duckstation level emulator for the Saturn and be done with it, it’s a mess between desktop and android. I think if you could get a performant cross platform Saturn emulator with enhancement options, even if it sacrificed some accuracy a la snes9x, it would also help people to explore the library more

>>10819329
>The people obsessed with the Saturn today are usually nintendo fans
yeah I don't get it either guess they don't have enough games to talk about

>>10819350
>no it didn't, they released or localized more good games that SOA did not. Keio 2 and Parodius comes to mind.
I pointed out every now and then they might do something differently but they generally followed Sega of America's lead. What you're pointing to was also after the whole 32X mess when leadership was starting to change at SoA.

>>10819302
Sega of Japan screwed up Saturn in America by forcing Saturn to launch early in America with no advanced warning. This pissed off developers and retailers. Sega already had a shaky reputation, and this caused places to reduce dedicated shelf space for Sega or outright just drop Sega from their stores entirely.

>>10819302
Actually SM64 sold 1.9 million
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/スーパーマリオ64#cite_note-2

>>10819382
That's counting the versions not on N64.

>>10819379
>Sega of Japan screwed up Saturn in America by forcing Saturn to launch early in America with no advanced warning.
Sega of America decided to do that.

>>10819379
>Sega of Japan screwed up Saturn in America by forcing Saturn to launch early in America with no advanced warning.
That happened as a kneedjerk reaction to the 32X being dead on arrival in an attempt to sweep it under the rug. If there was no 32X there would be no surprise Saturn launch.
>>10819398
The argument is also flawed as usual. N64 fans try to claim the N64 sold more software going off of the handful of Nintendo games at the top of the list, but then completely ignore the overall total games sold across the entire library. N64's software sales go off a cliff after about the top 30 or so games on the Famitsu charts and it doesn't even have 100 games that chart. Saturn on the other hand has over 400 games charting with less of a cliff. As a result it ended up selling about 10-15 million more games in Japan.

>>10819329
>or people like sega lord X who talk like they have mild retardation
that's just the average Sega fan
t. Sega fan

Can someone honestly tell me sega didn’t repeatedly try to fuck their consumer over with their bad decisions then act surprised when they eventually got tired of it? You can’t blame le normies when sega kept shitting half baked abortions out then immediately bulldozing over them for the next abortion, that’ll be full price plus tip by the way

>>10819427
32X is really the tipping point. Had they not done that and focused on a 1995 US Saturn launch things probably would have been ok. Sega CD had it's place and was somewhat successful for an add-on. It only really gets looked at badly because people bundle it in with the 32X.

>>10819398
No. It's just actually up to date unlike your sources. If it counted VC it would be much higher.
>>10819414
All I said is that SM64 sold more than any Saturn game in Japan and any game worldwide on PS1, two facts that were easily proven. And you say it doesn't count because it "only" sold 1 million more lol

>>10819414
>That happened as a kneedjerk reaction to the 32X being dead on arrival in an attempt to sweep it under the rug.

It was a knee jerk reaction to Virtua Fighter selling over a million Saturns in three months in Japan.

>>10819372
>What you're pointing to was also after the whole 32X mess when leadership was starting to change at SoA.

no, it was because Richard Leadbetter. If you were a Saturn fan in Europe in the mid 90s you'd know that.

>>10819404
>Sega of America decided to do that.
Nope. You can't do a console Lau ch without approval from headquarters. That was absolutely an SoJ decision.

>>10819447
>All I said is that SM64 sold more than any Saturn game in Japan and any game worldwide on PS1, two facts that were easily proven. And you say it doesn't count because it "only" sold 1 million more lol
And I said PS1 dominated worldwide and sold a lot more software. Your one game selling 11 million copies vs 10 million copies is just a drop in the bucket when just about every other game on the top selling list on PS1 was selling 1-5 million more copies than it's N64 equivalent.

As for Saturn I said it sold more software overall than the N64 in Japan which is true. The point is you keep focusing on 1 or 2 games and completely ignore the bigger picture.
>>10819454
>It was a knee jerk reaction to Virtua Fighter selling over a million Saturns in three months in Japan.
Not really. The original plan was Saturn for Japan in 1994 and 32X for the US until at least 1996. Then Saturn would be released worldwide when it was cheaper. 32X however was dead on arrival and causing a serious PR problem. So Japan ordered the early Saturn launch to try and correct the situation.
>>10819463
>no, it was because Richard Leadbetter.
What does he have to do with the 32X failing and Sega of America and Sega of Europe being restructured?
>>10819465
>That was absolutely an SoJ decision.
Because Sega of America's 32X plan failed miserably.

>>10819485
>Because Sega of America's 32X plan failed miserably.
Which means I was right. You were wrong. SoJ ruined the American launch.

>>10819492
The launch was ruined by the 32X. Even without the surprise launch it would be a disaster because of the 32X. Time and resources were diverted away from the Saturn to support the 32X and it's launch, and then it all failed.

As a result Sega was playing catchup and trying to get any random third party they could get to make western focused Saturn games for them because all their developers were busy with Genesis and 32X shit. Look at the US Saturn Launch titles that weren't Japanese developed. They were all outsourced and late, most even for the originally planned US launch of September.

>>10819505
Entire studios and retail stores boycotted Sega Saturn because of the surprise launch. It had nothing to do with 32x.

>>10819507
The surprise launch is a direct result of the 32X failing. Having to rely entirely on Japanese developed software for launch is a direct result of diverting resources to the 32X. Having no western focused games ready for even the originally planned September launch is a direct result of the 32X sucking up resources. Get rid of the 32X and all those issues go away.

>>10819527
Western Studios had already moved on from the 32x. It was irrelevant by the time Saturn was originally planned to launch in the West.

>>10810347
Because it's great and has cool exclusives (unlike Dreamcast where most of the games have ports). Can't play Shining Force III on anything else.

>>10819535
>Western Studios had already moved on from the 32x. It was irrelevant by the time Saturn was originally planned to launch in the West.
It's not irrelevant when it sucks up precious time and development resources from late 1993-1995. That time and effort could have instead been focused into making games for the Saturn's US launch. Saturn could have instead launched with stuff like a good port of Doom, a good port of Virtua Racing, Star Wars Arcade, Stellar Assault, Chaotix, Metal Head, on time and decent ports of Mortal Kombat 2, NBA Jam, etc. Hell they could have launched with a freaking football game as 32X had one released in 1995. Throw in what Saturn already had from Japan and you'd have a much stronger launch line up.

Without the 32X disaster prompting a need to rush the Saturn out early you also get rid of the surprise launch fiasco. There's no getting around it, 32X completely fucked over the Saturn's US launch.

>>10819485
>What does he have to do with the 32X failing and Sega of America and Sega of Europe being restructured?
It has to do with SOE kicking ass. Does SOA and the 32X live rent free in your head?

>>10819558
>It's not irrelevant when it sucks up precious time and development resources from late 1993-1995.
Do you have any examples or proof of the 32x hindering Sega Saturn game development?

>>10819564
>It has to do with SOE kicking ass.
So it's not relevant to what was being discussed.
>Does SOA and the 32X live rent free in your head?
No, but the situation that was being discussed was the issue Sega of America was in around the Saturn's launch, so late 1993 to 1995. Richard Leadbetter and the stuff Sega of Europe started doing around 1997 isn't really relevant to that discussion.
>>10819578
>Do you have any examples or proof of the 32x hindering Sega Saturn game development?
There's an interview with Yuji Naka from a few years ago where he mentions the chaos when he went back to Japan after finishing Sonic 3 about how they had 4-5 Development pipelines going between Saturn, Game Gear, Genesis, Sega CD, and 32X and how everyone was stretched thin. Not having 32X in that mix would have relieved some of that, as would shifting focus from Genesis and Sega CD over to Saturn.

Finally you can just look at the fact that there was no western software ready for Saturn's launch, only Japanese software was ready. No western software were actually made by Sega of America leading into the original launch date, but instead they were all outsourced. And then you can look at all the 32X games made by both Sega of America and Sega of Japan, some of which like Stellar Assault were shifted over from Saturn to help pad the 32Xs library. It's pretty obvious that 32X was diverting resources that could have been used for Saturn's launch line up.

>>10819679
>Finally you can just look at the fact that there was no western software ready for Saturn's launch
As other anon's said, this ie because they launched several months early. Western Game Studios weren't ready yet.

>>10819540
Based fellow Chuck Mogul
Posting to agree with you before the event ends

>>10819679
32x only failed because Japan announced the Saturn and killed 32x momentum. Everyone in America suddenly said "Why would I buy the 32x when Sega just announced the Saturn?"

Lmao Sega being Sega. Always being stupid and hurting themselves. Japan should have sold the 32x too. Or waited at least a year before talking about the Saturn.

>>10819906
>As other anon's said, this ie because they launched several months early. Western Game Studios weren't ready yet.
And the early launch was due to the 32X failing. Secondly they were able to get games for 32X starting in January 1994 and having them out for the holidays. If that effort was put towards the Saturn instead they would have had more games ready. That's what the Japanese studios did and it's why they were able to have games ready for launch.
>>10820363
>32x only failed because Japan announced the Saturn and killed 32x momentum.
Saturn was literally being demoed at the CES show that 32X was conceived at. Sega of America, third party devs, and consumers were all aware of the Saturn before 32X was even announced to the public. Japan announcing the Saturn didn't kill 32X's momentum, the thing never had any momentum to kill in the first place. It was a stupid idea and was dead on arrival.

>>10810347
what they say they played all the other retro consoles to death

reality astroturfed so they can sell saturn games for huge mark ups

>>10819679
What does Leadbetter have to do with all this? Editor of the official saturn magazine, but he had no real allegiance to Sega other than his wage packet every month. He doesn't fly the flag for Sega at all, hell he was reviewing ps1 games in no time at all after filling entire magazines every month saying how shit the ps1 was. It's business.

His interest is in tech and probably always was. He probably hated the saturn really for being such a damp squib. He (rarely) gets asked about saturn stuff and he either dodges the question or literally cringes and sinks in his seat while answering. He never gets involved with saturn df retro stuff. He clearly doesn't want to be associated with it.

I just wish the dude would come clean about what he saw regarding the virtua fighter 3 port...

>>10821553
>Saturn was literally being demoed at the CES show that 32X was conceived at.
Thanks for agreeing. That was a huge mistake and killed 32x hype.

>>10811074
>closes his essay with a proper thesis
Impressive.

>>10821603
Hindsight is wonderful. Remember these idiots thought every genesis owner would fork out for a 32x and keep buying that shit ASWELL as a saturn. Niave and ridiculous of course, turns out no one bought a 32x OR a saturn,

>>10821595
That's nice, but again what does any of that have to do with the 32X failing and Sega of America and Sega of Europe being restructured from 1994-1996? Was he working behind the scenes at Sega making some of these decisions or something?
>>10821603
>That was a huge mistake and killed 32x hype.
32X didn't even exist yet and no one knew about it. There was no hype to kill in the first place.
>>10821630
> thought every genesis owner would fork out for a 32x and keep buying that shit ASWELL as a saturn.
They didn't think they'd buy a Saturn as well, they thought 32X would hold it's own against the PS1 so they wouldn't have to release the Saturn until 1996-1997 if at all.

>>10821630
Agreed. Whoever was running Sega of Japan was foolish.

>>10810347
it has a cool name and I never even knew it existed when I switched from genesis to psx as a kid

>>10821553
Before the 32X was launched, the release date of the Saturn was announced for November 1994 in Japan, coinciding with the 32X's target launch date in North America.
This killed 32x hype because everyone was waiting for Saturn.

>>10811301
>>10811193
>>10810667

is this worth playing?

>>10821637
That's exactly my point (on Leadbetter), he had nothing to do with SoE business decisions and just used the official magazine to try and persuade people to not abandon saturn. It was pretty painful, they were reviewing fucking coin ops and re running old features all through 98'

Im not the anon insinuating that Leadbetter was pulling any strings at Sega (he wasn't), but I too would like to hear why that anon thought that was the case.

>>10821652
>Before the 32X was launched, the release date of the Saturn was announced for November 1994 in Japan, coinciding with the 32X's target launch date in North America.
That date for Saturn was known before 32X was even designed or unveiled to the public.
>This killed 32x hype because everyone was waiting for Saturn.
The hype didn't exist to kill in the first place. The problem wasn't Saturn, it was the overall stupid plan that was pushed for by Sega of America. That plan was to split the market between two systems. Saturn would be for Japan, 32X would be for the US and Europe. This idea was stupid no matter how you try and spin it, and the main issue with it was 32X.

There was no point in doing the 32X at all, Saturn's design was already finished and game development was underway in Japan when 32X was conceived. The only reason 32X exists is because Sega of America didn't want to move on from the Genesis to the Saturn, so Sega of Japan in an effort to appease them offered them the 32X instead. No one wanted 32X because it was a terrible, underpowered system and PS1 was right around the corner. Devs and consumers also knew about what Japan was getting and wanted that instead. Even if you somehow made it so no one outside of Japan knew about the Saturn, 32X would still fail because it was an underpowered add-on and PS1 was due out in less than a year.

32X didn't fail because of the Saturn, it failed because it was a terrible idea.

>>10821660
My bad. I misread your post.

>>10821715
>That date for Saturn was known before 32X was even designed or unveiled to the public.
Not the launch date. Saturn had been in development for a few years. No one was sure when it would launch. It could have been as late as 1996 for all anyone knew.

>>10821735
>Not the launch date
It was pretty well known that it was going to launch sometime in late 1994.
>Saturn had been in development for a few years.
And 32X development hadn't even started yet.
> No one was sure when it would launch.
You can see magazines of the era talking about it being expected towards the end of 1994, around the same time as the PS1.
> It could have been as late as 1996 for all anyone knew.
Sega of Japan and Sega of America knew what the expected timeline was and when it was expected to be out. Japan already had teams working on games aiming for the November launch date.

>>10821748
>It was pretty well known that it was going to launch sometime in late 1994.
Prove it.

>>10821748
>It was pretty well known that it was going to launch sometime in late 1994.

If that were true, then Sega of America wouldn't have supported making the 32x.

>>10821783
>Prove it.
EGM November 1993 Page 68:
https://retrocdn.net/images/2/25/EGM_US_052.pdf
32X wouldn't be unveiled to the public until about Spring of 1994.
>>10821785
>If that were true, then Sega of America wouldn't have supported making the 32x.
Sega of America wasn't concerned about when Saturn would launch, they were concerned about price and were convinced that the 32X was a better idea. The idea wasn't for 32X to be a stopgap if Saturn didn't make it out in time, the idea was for 32X to be the only 32-bit system from Sega outside of Japan.

Writing this post with a hint of frustration, primarily due to the widespread ignorance and misinformation surrounding the SEGA Saturn. It appears that many individuals, often influenced by YouTube personalities and celebrities, have formed opinions without truly understanding the system's potential and the factors that contributed to its perceived "failure."
As a long-time fan and advocate of the SEGA Saturn, I find it disheartening to see the lack of appreciation for its innovative features and the quality of its software library. The Saturn was ahead of its time in terms of 3D graphics, CD-based gaming, and online capabilities. It introduced groundbreaking titles like NiGHTS into Dreams, Virtua Fighter 2, and Panzer Dragoon Saga, which are still cherished by gamers today.
It is essential to recognize that the Saturn faced stiff competition from other powerful consoles during its era, such as the PlayStation and Nintendo 64. SEGA's decision to release the Saturn in Japan first, followed by North America and Europe, led to a slower adoption rate and a limited library in certain regions.
the Saturn's online capabilities, including its SEGA Net Link adapter, were groundbreaking for its time. However, the lack of widespread internet access and the console's relatively early release in the online gaming era have been overlooked by many commentators.
consider the context and the innovative aspects of the SEGA Saturn before blindly accepting the opinions of others. The system's legacy deserves more than a dismissive wave due to misinformed beliefs. By gaining firsthand experience with the Saturn's software and researching its history, you will likely develop a newfound appreciation for this often-maligned console.

>>10821715
Nope. Sega Japanese president Hayao Nakayama ordered the American Sega team to come up with a hardware response to the Atari Jaguar which was going to be released before Saturn. Without Sega president Hayao Nakayama pushing for the idea of a hardware response to the Atari Jaguar, then the 32x would have never happened. The American team was 100% fine waiting for the Saturn to be released in America.

>>10819097
>the US division was even worse in this regard and their desire to stick with the Genesis and 32X did the most damage as far as making consoles goes.
It was the only logical decision for the NA market. Sega was synonymous with affordability and budget conscious consumers. Only by catering to their existing consumer base of poorfags did sega have any hope of success in the NA market.

>>10822167
Not to mention the original idea pitched by the Japanese was to release an upgraded Genesis 2D console. Americans thought it was stupid an expensive since an upgraded 2D Genesis was worth releasing a brand new console. So if they were being forced to release something, then it should be a cheaper add on that costs much less.

>>10822137
>Nakayama ordered the American Sega team to come up with a hardware response to the Atari Jaguar
I know this funny story is entertaining for the drama and hyperbole, but you need to understand it's an out of context piece of a bigger picture:

>In the summer of 1993 Irimajiri visited SoA to get their perspective on the Saturn. SoA told them they couldn't abandon the Genesis install base yet and that they felt the Saturn was too expensive.
> Fall of 1993 Irimajiri returns to Japan with this information and Nakayama has them start looking into what they can due to help SoA address these concerns.
>January 1994 SoJ then approaches SoA with a beefed up Genesis to release in hopes that will keep them competitive against the newer consoles coming out like the 3DO, PS1, and Jaguar. SoA countered with the 32X. This is where the interview your referencing happened.
>Nakayama in various interviews and statements in 1994 states that the plan is for a split market with Saturn in Japan, and 32X in the US until at least 1996 since SoA has convinced him new expensive systems like Saturn, 3DO, Jaguar, and PS1 wont sell.

This is the bigger picture we now have from combining both the US and Japanese perspectives:
https://mdshock.com/2023/07/10/irimajiri-speaks-out-about-the-saturn-the-32x-and-soas-financial-troubles/
https://mdshock.com/2020/06/16/sega-president-hayao-nakayamas-new-year-speech-1994/
https://mdshock.com/2020/06/16/hideki-sato-discussing-the-sega-saturn/

>>10822167
Oh yes releasing a $400 Genesis and CD combo unit, a $180 add-on with games that cost as much as 2x their CD based counterparts, and pushing a $300 CD based add-on was really appealing to poor people and the budget conscious.
>>10822174
This idea came about because Sega of America told them they wanted to stick with the Genesis and not launch the Saturn. They weren't being forced to release anything. Sega of Japan was trying to give them exactly what they asked for.

>>10822209
>1993 Irimajiri visited SoA to get their perspective on the Saturn. SoA told them they couldn't abandon the Genesis install base yet
Of course. 1993 and 94 was too early.

>January 1994 SoJ then approaches SoA with a beefed up Genesis to release in hopes that will keep them competitive
So it was SoJ's idea like everyone said.

SoA never requested new hardware and were fine with the Genesis for 1 more year.

>Saturn was too expensive.
It was too expensive. $399 launch was dumb

They should have made the port on the back of the Saturn compatible with genesis games and made it backwards compatible. Maybe with slightly upgraded graphics / sound.
I wonder how it would have played out if they did small acts like this.

>>10822237
Yeah SNES lasted until 1996. The other anon has no idea what he is talking about.

>>10822237
>Of course. 1993 and 94 was too early.
They weren't talking about releasing it in 1993, they were however discussing starting to prepare for transitioning to it, as is the norm for a next generation system coming out. The original idea was a global launch in 1994, or US launch in 1995. Sega of America though insisted they stick with the Genesis.
>So it was SoJ's idea like everyone said.
It was a group effort. Sega of Japan designed a Genesis with more colors to try and help Sega of America stay competitive. Sega of America themselves had been pushing for doing an add-on to beef up the Genesis for some time. There's an interview with Al Nilsen where he mentions he killed the 32X idea at least 4 times before he left the company. He left the company in 1993 before any of this stuff happened. Meaning Sega of America was pushing for doing that even before this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiMrRealMZs
>SoA never requested new hardware and were fine with the Genesis for 1 more year.
It wasn't just 1 more year, they legitimately thought the could hold off against the PS1 until 1996/1997. Sega of Japan being rightfully concerned about the upcoming PS1 felt they needed something to stay competitive.
>It was too expensive. $399 launch was dumb
Not in fall of 1994, which SoA had no problem releasing the CDX at that price in 1994. Secondly $399 only lasted a few months until fall of 1995 when it dropped to $299, the originally planned launch. If they just waited that out they would have been able to launch at $299. Sega was able to consolidate the hardware which combined with falling RAM prices allowed them to drop the Saturn's price fast and even beat the PS1 to the $199 price point in March of 1996. For most of the time both were on the market in the US, Saturn was able to match PS1's price.

>>10822254
Except it really didn't. The 16-bit market was imploding from 1994-1996, even Nintendo was reporting losses. If Nintendo had their way they wouldn't have stuck with the SNES until 1996. They only did that because SGI was having delays with the N64 hardware. Nintendo wanted to launch the N64 originally in 1995.

https://mdshock.com/2022/05/09/a-second-atari-shock-the-decline-of-the-16-bit-console-era/

>>10822262
>Sega of America themselves had been pushing for doing an add-on to beef up the Genesis for some time.
Prove it with evidence.

>>10822262
>Sega of Japan wanted it = nooooo IT wAS a GrOuP dEcIsIoN.

>32x fails = it wAS alL Sega oF AmErICa's fAuLT!!!

The Sega Saturn fanboys...I swear.

>>10817438
>Once when I was talking with Ken Kutaragi [the creator of the PlayStation], he said “Hideki-chan”—he refers to me using the “chan” diminutive—“Hideki-chan, there’s no way you can beat me. Where are you buying your processors? From Hitachi. From Yamaha. What about your CD-ROM drives? You’re buying everything. By buying from Hitachi, Hitachi is profiting. You can’t make anything yourselves. We can make everything ourselves, including custom parts. We have our own factories.”
How you say based in Japanese?

>>10822112
The Sega Saturn had an unusual architecture with dual CPUS during an era when programming for 2 CPUs was extremely rare, and not something game developers of the 1990s usually knew how to do. Sega's own Saturn developer kits were lackluster and bare bones. The Saturn required extra effort to draw out its 3D capabilities. It was the opposite of what game developers wanted out of a console. Even Sega's own developers like the legendary Yu Suzuki said the Saturn was challenging to work with, and not everyone would be up to the task.

Let me be clear. I'm a FAN of SEGA. I'm NOT a fan of the Sega Saturn. The case looks nice, but the internals and design are a mess. It was also way too expensive.

What Sega needed was an affordable, low cost, and streamlined 3D console that didn't break the bank. Something that was very affordable to manufacture, and had a great retail price. It did not need the latest bleeding edge hardware. For hardware, they could have made the console be based on the Sega Arcade Board Model 1, and added some extra texture rendering. That would have been enough. Sell the system at a $249 launch price.

Then focus most of their efforts on their popular Sega game franchises like Sonic, Streets of Rage, Shinobi, After Burner, Outrun, etc. Put those on Saturn along with some RPGs.

Sega was never going to beat Sony in a battle of hardware. Because Sony was spending BILLIONS of dollars. Much more money than Sega ever had available. The best Sega could hope was to SURVIVE like Nintendo did. That's why the Sega games were the most important.

The Sega Dreamcast was a big step in the right direction. The console was affordable to make, and didn't rely on exotic designs like a dual CPUs. So developers had a easy time with it and liked making games for it. The DC had a really good GPU and that's where Sega put most of their priority. Everything else was budget focused. Nothing crazy. What Sega needed was a "Dreamcast" but for the PS1 generation.

>>10810347
Because he lives in their head rent-free.

>>10822449
>>10823068
Take the meds, auster.

>>10822449
You're right. It needed a machine which could handle arcade ports in the early to mid nineties. Not the late nineties because they were on the way out and lost the allure.

The saturn could not handle decent model 2 ports. Virtua fighter 2 and virtua cop looked great, Sega rally played well but really other than that they were really the exception. Touring car, Manx tt, house of the dead and even the first daytona were really a total embarrassment.

The dreamcast fixed every single flaw the a saturn had, it was just half a decade too late to be relevant or desirable to anyone other than Sega fans (of which there weren't many left).

>>10811074
AI responses are cringe.

can't believe you niggers are still arguing this after all these years.

here's why the Saturn died: it was shit hardware, rushed so it doesn't get late to the market, made by an incompetent company, it had impossible development kits, and the marketing department was busy making sure that no store was willing to carry it.

good hardware does not matter if you do not have good games, good games cannot be made if the devkits are useless, and even if it had good games + hardware it would not have mattered if you couldn't sell it at the retail space..

>>10823227
Captcha makes AI bots unlikely on 4chan

>>10823450
>it was shit hardware
It was...not shit...but not well thought out.

>rushed so it doesn't get late to the market
Agreed.

>made by an incompetent company
Sega of Japan has problems.

>it had impossible development kits
The early dev kits were not good.

I think if Saturn had another 1 to 2 years of development time to iron out the hardware issues and launched in 1996 to a worldwide launch, then it would have done better.

>>10810347
It's classic contrarianism. Used to be beloved when hardly anyone talked about it but now that it's a darling for youtubers people hate on it.

it has the best resident evil

>>10810347
Knowing what Sega is capable of making, the Sega Saturn just feels sloppy.

The Master System and Genesis were superb machines, and well designed for its time. Well thought out and streamlined. Same with the Dreamcast.

Saturn is the exception. It's so weird and oddly made. Did Sega get bribed or kickbacks for each Hitachi chip they bought? That's the only explanation I can see on why the Saturn uses 2 Hitachi CPUs. And why the 32x also used 2 Hitachi CPUs.

Not a fan of the design.

>>10824236
>The Master System... were superb machines, and well designed for its time. Well thought out and streamlined
SMS is the shittiest console

>>10810347
weeb shit

>>10824239
It's simple and charming.

>>10810347
they identify with it, it's just like them, a failure.

>>10825000
it's shitty and alarming

>>10825415
2 out of 10

Unoriginal and weak response

Try again

>>10823960
Agreed, daytona to daytona cce shows great progress graphically, I know the game play was shit. Again, look at vf to vf2. When people got to grips with it, they could get interesting results. Another 2 years would have been another improvement no doubt.

And goes for the dreamcast

>>10810347
They think rare stuff is the best is what I thought

>>10813176
What's the most technically impressive Saturn game?

>>10826386
Probably panzer dragoon saga
Though I personally like how Bulk Slash looks

>>10826386
Sega Rally, Grandia, VF2, DOA

>>10810347
So I watched some YouTube videos about Saturn. If I were to use car terms is the following correct?

Lile in car terms:

The Playstation 1 came out and shocked the industry with a big powerful engine. Not only a powerful engine, but really easy to fix and maintain that engine. That's why making games is so easy for PS1. Sony made a user friendly engine design and made it powerful.

Sega panicked. The Sega Saturn had a much weaker engine than Playstation 1. So they freaked out and tried to put a 2nd engine in their Saturn car to make up the difference in ppwer. But to make the two weaker engines work together caused a bunch of issues. And that the engine design is complicated and not easy to maintain. So it's annoying to make games for the Saturn as a game developer. No one likes Sega's weird car engine design and not as many games made for it.

And Nintendo 64 is like a hot rod car with a super powerful engine. But the space inside the car is tiny because of the 64mb cartridges. So the N64 is like a 2 seater compact car with a huge engine shoved inside it. Does great 3D but can't really hold much space.

>>10824907
lmao

>>10810347
No stores near me carried Sega Saturn as a kid. It was ONLY N64 and Playstation. I didn't even know Sega Saturn existed. I thought Sega took a break from making consoles during that generation.

>>10826827
You just are from this dimension.
Those who remember the Saturn from the 90s were originally from a different dimension, before the merge.

>>10826594
The Saturn was a pain to develop for but that wasn't why it failed. Consumers and retailers were burned by Sega with the CD and 32X and Saturn released so soon after those which further pissed off retailers. Namco was also a powerhouse during the PS1 and PS2 launches. Series like Tekken and Ridge Racer absolutely were system sellers back then. It's not as widely remembered because of all the other big hitters that came afterwards. Saturn not getting MGS and Square going all-in on PS sealed its fate.

>>10826594
What is a car?

>>10826843
>You just are from this dimension.
>Those who remember the Saturn from the 90s were originally from a different dimension, before the merge.
Take your meds, schizo

>>10827636
The issue was Sega of Japan's and erratic and reactionary behavior.

They kept making random hardware that didn't sell.

Sega CD
Sega Mega Karaoke
Sega Mega PC
Sega Mega Jet
Sega Mega PC
Sega Mega Teradrive
Sega Pico
Sega Pico Advanced
Sega Laser Active
Sega Nomad
Sega Game Gear
Sega CDX
Sega 32x
Sega Mega CD 32x
Sega HiSaturn
...and much more

And because they were stretched so thin, Sega of Japan couldn't properly support all the hardware they released with proper software and games. Third parties didn't want to deal with Sega releasing half baked hardware and then abandoning it.

America even has less tolerance for that non-sense. All the Sega add-ons and accessories for Sega Genesis took up so much shelf space. Remember the Sega Genesis Activator? Lmao. That took up valuable shelf space. And didn't sell at all.

The final straw that broke the camel's back was when Sega of Japan ordered that the Sega Saturn to be launched early as a surprise to beat Playstation to launch (like they did in Japan). But it just pissed off retailers. Sega didn't tell anyone about it. Not even retailers. No retailers were properly stocked. They didn't even have their displays on shelves set up yet.

This was the last straw and many retailers boycotted Sega products. Either reducing shelf space dedicated to Sega to minimum, shoving Sega products in the worst part of the store, or even refusing to carry any Sega products at all. They gave the shelf space to Sony and Nintendo.

The best part was that Sony and Nintendo didn't even need to do anything. Sega of Japan did it to themselves.

>>10827669
Sega Saturn's internal division dual CPU further complicates the dimension. It is not only driven by his need to separate itself from members of an inferior class, but it is alienated from them because of its supernatural state. Sega Saturn believes he has a dual nature — part 2D and part 3D— which prevents it from finding contentment. Society considers such internal divisions of the core unacceptable, so in order to avoid the label "schizomaniac," Sega Saturn is forced to conceal its divided nature from those around it and/or separate itself from other dimensions as much as possible. On the one hand, such alienation is not undesirable, because it permits it to distance itself from the plebs. On the other hand, such isolation is enough to drive a person to madness. After all, "Sega Saturn wished, as every sentient being does, to be loved as a whole"; yet, such unconditional acceptance is not possible unless he is dealing with another Sega Saturn.

The PS1 for hipsters

>>10810347
Love it or hate it, doesn't matter, you're wrong anyway.

>>10829154
I would excuse the Sega CD and the Game Gear, even if they failed. You can perfectly understand why would Sega want to find their place on the portable market and the Sega CD was probably a reaction to the Turbo Duo and the popularity of the CD format.
The Game Gear wasn't even considered a failure back then, it keep receiving software for years.

>>10810347
Because it's the ultimate hipster contrarian machine. They act above anyone because they are in the tiny percentage which can read japanese and play some obscure games

Beetle Saturn won't open things on Retroarch :(
BIOS seems fine too

Red pill me on the japanese sega saturn library. Was it really that good? How does it compare to the playstation?

>>10831306
Lots of 2D // 2.5D shoot em ups and rpgs. A LOT of Asian specific games like Mahjong. Bigger library than America but also lots of fluff titles you would never play.

Playstation has more true 3D titles.

>>10810347
People love an underdog story

>>10831306
https://vsrecommendedgames.miraheze.org/wiki/Saturn/Japan
check out all these games for the best

>>10829165
Cute story, came twice

>>10823757
>plug prompt into AI generator
>copy output into post
>???
>profit!

>>10831856
Then it's not a bot. There's an actual person making the post and solving Captcha. You werent around before Captcha was introduced. 4chan boards were filled with bots. Captcha changed things.

>>10831868
You mistook "AI response" to mean "posted by an AI" when it actually meant "poster used AI to write their post". Did the ??? Profit thing not tip you off to the fact I've done the nigger exploit?

>>10819420
What is that guys problem? Seriously why does he talk like that

>>10826546
Doa isn't impressive at all, why do you say that

>>10826827
Well, they did kind of

>>10810347
Is more powerfull then what people think,if we use the ps2 maths or jaguar maths.
>saturn is a 112 bit console (2 32 bit cpu,2 16 bit gpu,2 8 bit spu)
>ps2 (2 64 bit cpu similar to saturn architecture)

bump

>>10826594
>muh engine/cpu power
NOBODY that mattered gave a fuck about how powerful the machines were.
Sony and Nintendo captured the market after Sega blow load after load of shitty products for years then released the Saturn with an absurd price point, shitty distribution network, and very few games.

You know the tards that wait in line for midnight releases just so they can be the first to shitpost or drop a 30 minute reaction video after 5 minutes of gameplay? Those tards were kids then, or not even born yet. They didn't have the purchasing power to buy shit just because they got suckered by marketing (yet).
So most of us had to wait a bit.
And what do you think happened after Saturn was out for a bit?
>mommy, mommy, buy me that console that's shoved in the back of the store and only seems to have that one gay jester game!
or
>mommy, mommy, buy me that console that has dozens of games be released every week (for cheaper) and everyone says is awesome, it's a CD player too!
and
>mommy, mommy, buy me that new Mario console with the games that four of us can play at once. and it's cheaper than the other two!
?
The processing power and tools devs had to work with had almost NOTHING to do with why they chose to develop with a console, they followed the money - and the money wasn't with Sega because the market wasn't with Sega.

>nut muh japanese-only releases
NOBODY cared.
Want to know how we got Jap imports back in the day?
By blindly sending money to shady 3rd party importers that almost exclusively advertised in the back of shady 3rd party magazines, for twice the retail price plus damn near double the cost for shipping, then you had to pray it wouldn't get "lost" on the several month journey to your house. MAYBE you could get lucky finding one at a niche brick-and-mortar for "new" (despite clearly being opened, played, and missing booklets) for 3x the retail price. Then, you'd realize you don't know any Japanese cause weebs weren't a thing yet.

>>10834980
>they followed the money - and the money wasn't with Sega because the market wasn't with Sega.

You were somewhat right until here. I lived through the 90s and saw it happen. The market was still Sega and Nintendo early on during 1995 and 1996. PS1 had Tekken. Saturn had Virtua Fighter. PS1 had Ridge Racer. Saturn had Virtua Racer and Daytona. Etc. There was hope for the Saturn until around 1997-ish.

Sega just...weren't releasing games people wanted. Sega had a strong fanbase in arcades and consoles. But even Hardcore Sega fans gave up when no Sonic game was released, and no big name sequel games from the Genesis. When kids loved Mario 64, and saw that Saturn had no answers it was a huge blow.
Saturn had no answer to games like Super Smash Bros or Zelda on N64 either.


Saturn had nothing to counter Crash Bandicoot, Twisted Metal, Resident Evil, etc. Sony just gaining more and more steam too. 1997 was a huge year. I remember when Final Fantasy 7 came out. Everyone wanted a Playstation for that game. I don't know why they didn't have any Sonic games or RPGS, but Sega was just done at that point. Even hardcore fans moved on to PS1 or Nintendo 64 at that point.

I don't know The behind the scenes stuff, but Sega had the market and attention of gamers during '95 and '96. After that...it was Sega's fault for letting it slip by their fingers. It's remarkable how they screwed it up.

>>10835227
No answer to Smash Brothers? Fighters megamix was where they got idea for it lol

>>10835341
I like Fighters megamix, but it's just 1v1. I meant in terms of an arena platform fighter with 4 players.

My Saturn with a Fenrir installed started having some really strange glitches, like crashing/looping on the start up screen, distorted audio on the system menu, glitched text or no text at all on the Fenrir menu, games crashing after a while even if I manage to load them.
Is this because of failling caps? I have another Saturn working fine, I guess I'll try the Fenrir on that one and see if the problem is the ODE or the console itself.

>>10835464
It is 30 years old now. Several things could be failing at this point.

Salute your Saturn for all its hard years of service. Give it a peaceful retirement

>>10811474
>it was the Western Market that made Sega all its money
No, it was their arcade division.

>>10835464
How are we supposed to know without seeing the inside of the console?

>>10835586
>No, it was their arcade division.
Anon...how do you think the arcade division earned so much money? The Western Market bought the greatest number of arcade machines.

>>10835464
Try a different SD card first, you never know.

>>10835690
I did, even disconnected the ODE and I was still having issues messing around with the system menu.
Already ordered a cap kit, hopefully a full recap will fix it. The Fenrir/Saturn was running fine a few months ago.

>>10835464
Could need a reflow and a recap, some saturns have been needing extra attention for a little while now.

>>10835658
>The Western Market bought the greatest number of arcade machines.
Most of Sega's arcade profits were from Japan.

>>10811074
Okay but where's my MTL-assisted translation?

>>10835227
You told me I wasn't quite right then claimed you were more correct by mostly saying the exact same shit I said. wtf, man?

I lived in a large metro area and knew ONE person with a Saturn. His house got robbed and the niglets left the Saturn. They took every TV, CD player, VCR, piece of jewelry, and even found the garage keys to remove a motor that was attached to a boat, but left the damn Saturn and the five games sitting next to it. Still plugged in.
Not even the pawn market was with Sega after the Genesis.

>>10821607
>Impressive
its ai retard

>>10834980
>cause weebs weren't a thing yet.
lol

>>10835375
Fair enough in terms of the arena fighting but there was also 1v1 in that. To be fair it was so basic compared to virtua fighter, it would be like formula 1 worrying about buggy racing.

I meant in terms of mashing characters up into a fighting game. Even down to the crazy cross overs, fighters megamix had vf kids, daytona car, the woman from virtua cop, even some canned vf1 character. It was brilliant

>>10835464
Er.. Open it up and have a look?

>>10836689
I just did. Transfered the Fenrir to another console and still had the same problem.
Guess what? Shitty ribbon cable that came with the ODE. I used the official one and no problem. I guess the bending somehow damaged the cable.

>>10836692
Well shit, is it fine now and all back together again? If so, good work

The Saturn was the TG16 of its generation. Only the weird kid had it, but unlike the SNES/Genesis or N64/Playstation, owning the TG16/Saturn basically guaranteed you were going to be the weird kid to obsess about the console 30 years later.

>>10836703
Unfortunaly I spoke too soon.
The console is working fine if I put the disc drive in, but still glitches using the Fenrir.
It's a model 2 with a Sanyo drive and a trap board, I wonder if connecting the Fenrir directly to the motherboard is the problem. Do I need to connect the 2-pin power cable from the trap board to the Fenrir? Everything was working fine the first time I installed the ODE.

>>10836778
double check your hook up for the console, make sure the ribbon cable is snug and on the right side. You should have a new ribbon cable that might be a better choice, I don't remember how that little board works in there (I have a different revision) but consider going directly into the console and bypassing the board. The only things you need to connect to a fenrir is whatever you can connect inside your console.

>>10835980
>Most of Sega's arcade profits were from Japan.
The United States of America and Europe bought hundreds of thousands of Sega Arcade machines.

Japan was small in comparison. It's just one country.

>>10836209
You weren't correct. Anon was right. Sega still had a large part of the market from 1993 to 1996. After that, Sega lost any chance they had. Sony took over.

>>10836786
Well, touching the power cable connected to the Fenrir seems to reset the console. I tried to straighten the wires and now it seems to be running fine, doesn't even reset anymore if I wiggle the connector.
I guess that's the culprit? The console was mostly crashing during the start up animation, so I guess it was a power issue?

>>10819302
Super Mario 64 is the biggest Japanese 3D game of the 1990's, period. Every generation knows the game, and is aware of its role in gaming history. Don't try to be smart and say the best-selling PS1 game had comparable sales. We all fucking know that Super Mario 64 has been re-sold and emulated millions and millions of times far beyond the Nintendo 64's lifespan. To pretend that anything on the Saturn is comparable to Mario 64 honestly requires some kind of autism and very pedantic thinking to work. Japanese developers know that Mario 64 is a masterpiece. Japanese zoomers know Mario 64 is a masterpiece. Nintendo 64 will always be considered better than the Saturn. It's a fact.

New Saturn owner here, what the fuck do I buy for the cart slot? I want to be able to play the games requiring RAM carts and also imports - does an Action Replay give me everything I need or is there a better option?

>>10837143
Action Replay will do that, yes

>>10836802
>Sega still had a large part of the market from 1993 to 1996
...with the Genesis (and its associated bullshit). Not the Saturn, which is what this whole thread is about. I know you spergs have difficultly picking up on context clues, but do we really need to say "Saturn" in every sentence to further specify the topic at hand?

>>10837164
Yeah. And Saturn had momentum and market share for the first 1 to 2 years (Then died). Do you think Saturn existed in a vacuum? Of course not. It was riding the wave of Sega and Genesis. That must be taken into account.

Playstation had no market share and had to gradually earn every single step. Mostly thanks to Namco and Squaresoft.

>Buy a Japanese Saturn on eBay
>Seller messages me the disc drive doesn't work
>Tell him that's fine with me and he ships
>Get package
>Open the Saturn and tape the lid closed mechanism
>Drive starts working again
>Consider giving the seller a 1 star for lying about the disc drive
Second time I get a Saturn for cheap and this is the issue. Is there a way to remedy the lid issue or do I just throw an ODE/Flash cart in it and call it a day?
Sega really messed up their way of closing the damn thing for long term use.

>>10810347
If OP's image doesn't make you horny then I can't help you

>>10837649
So it just thinks the lid is always open?

>>10812265
Poor fake-autistic humor
Cringe

>>10837659
I don't know what that means.

>>10837656
Basically. These two have to contact for drive to spin, but after a while, the right ends back too much and no longer makes contact.

>>10837678
A better angle to show what I mean.

>>10837176
You're warping history to invent a favorable narrative for the Saturn.
People were sick of Sega's shit by Saturn's release.
Sega being Sega is half the reason people weren't excited to get the Saturn.
The only notable thing Saturn had going for it was being the first out of the next gen gate which, once again, didn't fucking matter because most people were more than willing to wait out another Sega shitshow for something better.
Do you think that just because Saturn was released first that it was the only next-gen console on people's radars?
Most of you don't even seem to realize how relatively short that gen was and how quickly Saturn shit the bed.
Let me put Saturn's life into perspective for all the tards that were toddlers and cumstains when it was trying to be relevant: the entire lifespan of Saturn was half as long as GTA 5s current existence. Yes, I know that isn't a 1-to-1 comparison, and that you ass clowns were apready thinking of holes to poke fuck holes in it before you even got to this sentence, but it's still a comparison between a modern product and Saturn.
Market share isn't just defined by sales figures you pulled from a half-assed search, it can also include potential sales, which fucked Saturn. People were much more interested in Sony and Nintendo's (both household names in entertainment electronics for over a decade) upcoming releases than Sega's Saturn bullshit.
PS1 and N64 kept selling because they always had new top shelf products, and Saturn never had anything.
The only momentum Saturn ever had was when it was pushed out during its stillbirth delivery. Look at half the Saturn pics ITT, like goddamn autopsy photos, ripped open consoles in the hopes posters can Frankenstein a childhood memory that never existed.

There, I put "Saturn" in every sentence, hopefully that keeps you on track.

>>10837760
>People were much more interested in Sony and Nintendo's (both household names in entertainment electronics for over a decade)
NTA but you were clearly too young to remember. Sony was only known for their electronics. They didn't make a game console before. The PS1 was untested and a new thing. The real big names to beat were Sega and Nintendo in the gaming world. It wasnt until Sony started releasing huge big PS1 hits like Tekken, Ridge Racer, Crash Bandicoot, Final Fantasy 7, etc that PS1 really took off.

>>10837649
Can't help with that since I never had that problem, I think you can do the tape trick but the console will always think the lid is closed, so you have to turn it off if you want to change discs.
But if you have more than 1 system and no ODE, I'd say go for it. It's more than worth it.

>>10810452
If you limited the drawcalls in clever ways, I could see this happening. The Saturn was a bandwidth beast!

>>10837760
At the time Nobody was sure the Playstation was going to be a success or not.

Half the reason Sony succeeded is because Sega shot themselves in the foot with the stupid surprise early launch. Then shot themselves in the OTHER foot by pissing of retailers and making some stores boycott Saturn and buying more Sony stock. Then shot themselves in the arm by rushing games out of the door (like Daytona USA) before they were ready in order to compete with Playstation. Then shot themselves in the other arm by not importing good RPG games that Saturn had in Japan. Then shot themselves in the chest by making Saturn $399 at launch. Ultra greedy. Then shot themselves in the head by not releasing a new Sonic game for the Saturn.

If Sega didn't make these mistakes, then the console war against Sony would have been much closer. Much more brutal. Sega might still be around today making consoles if they didn't stumble so hard with the Saturn

Sega let Sony win.

>>10837952
>Then shot themselves in the head by not releasing a new Sonic game for the Saturn.
For me it was not having a next-gen Streets of Rage or Phantasy Star. Shinobi and Thunder Force also had some underwhelming sequels compared to their previous Genesis outings. It was sad seeing them go from some of the best years of the Genesis to the launch year of the Saturn. Hardly had anything.

>>10838016
Not that anon but Also true. Sega just ignored all their great Genesis franchises. I'm guessing it was some weird Japanese decision since they don't love Sonic, Streets of Rage, etc as much as the West did. The Japanese were in love with Virtua Fighter and all the other "Virtua" games in 1995.

>>10838016
You're overthinking about stablished IPs.
Back in the soul/feel era, IPs were famous, not because they just were, but because the games were good.
Back then people were more open to new things.
NiGHTS was beloved and acclaimed, even admired back then. The backlash it gets is modern revisionism.

>>10837852
Holy fuck, you're retarded.
>>10837952
>Saturn would have been good if it was good

>>10811482
what is that image from??

>>10838420
I imagine most people felt the same way I do. Which is to say, they don't hate it because they don't have any opinion of it.

>>10837952
Even if Sega did all those things Playstation would have still won by a large margin. Sega just became less appealing by the mid-90s and Sony was the new cool brand that everyone wants to be apart of.

>>10810347
something something CLUSSY
clown pussy is the current meta ya noob

>>10838601
I thought anon made it clear. Saturn itself wasn't bad. It was Sega's terrible business decisions that cost them the war against PS1.

>>10829154
I love Sega, super soulful company that really gave it their all but holy shit they made a lot of bad hardware that lost support quickly. It was not a good feeling back in the day to be stuck with some of these expensive toys and the industry halfheartedly supported it and moved on. It really made a lot of people think I should have went with Nintendo and the Sega brand got weaker and weaker and pretty much destroyed when Sony took the "not Nintendo" piece market.

>>10839728
You think it was bad in America? Japan had 10 times the amount of hardware, accessories, and add ons that America had.

>>10839728
Sega loved experimenting with hardware. This made them AMAZING in the arcade space which uses brand new hardware for arcade cabinets every few years. Sometimes every year. But this same ideology made them weak in console sales where you are supposed to make only 1 good piece of hardware and have it last 4 to 5 years.

It's such a shame that the Sega Japanese branch couldn't get along with Sega American branch and Sega of Japan sabotaged them. The American branch had a really strong business sense. They knew how to streamline Sega of Japan's crazy ideas (like releasing so much hardware in Japan) and how to properly market Sega consoles to the West. The American branch took Sonic (a minor character in Japan) and turned Sonic into a household name in the West. Then sold almost 40 million Sega Genesis units. But Sega of Japan got jealous of the Sega of America and destroyed their relationship and took over control. Then Sega of Japan crashed the entire company in just 3 short years in a huge fireball. Sega of Japan should have listened to Sega of America. They made a great combo when the relationship was good.

Started playing Shining Force III today, went for the translated version instead of the US/PAL release, this should be the best version right?
Also, I downloaded a pre-patched ISO and there seems to be a debug menu when I press start, is there a way to turn it off?

>>10839768
Yeah from a collectors standpoint I love Sega of Japan's wacky hardware they released in Asia. But they don't know how to run a company. All their non-arcadr stuff sold very poorly. The Sg-1000, Master System, and Genesis sold terrible in Asia. They were very lucky that their arcade sales were so good.

>>10839609
>Saturn would have been good if it was good

>>10840386
Not what he said

>>10840393
go tell your tard wrangler that you're done with screen time for today

>>10810347
I do not like the Redditurn

>has great hardware with some of the absolute best games ever made
>exotic nature due to not having been popular with westies
>makes neo /vr/ seethe
The Saturn was always based as fuck.

>>10810347
You're either a vidya casual or you're a Saturn fan.

>>10840435
>great hardware
It’s weaker than the PS1 and the N64
>absolute best games
Stop trolling

>>10810347
It represents the divergent path...
It was a neat console with great potential.
But it lacked the good games of the PS1 and N64.

>>10838760
Tekken

NiGHTS into Dreams
Panzer Dragoon Saga
Guardian Heroes
Shining Force III
Radiant Silvergun
Dragon Force

>>10840408
I say this out of compassion anon, please consider working with an occupational therapist specializing in learning disabilities.

>>10840545
Where is

1. Sonic
2. Steers of Rage
3. Thunder Force
4. Shinobi
5. Aftered Beast
6. Golden Axe
7. Jurassic Park


??

>>10810347
That console is a move so bad on Sega's part, that it led to them tanking and getting bought out by Sammy.
It's sort of a legend by now. /vr/ is also filled with unfortunate souls who had to play on Saturn when they were kids. They are jealous of all the great classics other kids got to play, so now they rationalize their inferior childhood gaming experience as actually something unique and amazing.
They need support from a specialist dealing with deep childhood trauma.

>>10840616
>2. Steers of Rage
I don't see the love for Altered Beast. It wasn't a series and the game itself was average. Aleste, Alisia Dragoon, Battle Mania, Kid Chameleon, Ranger-X, Vectorman would've made for better series candidates with a continuing legacy. Why is Jurassic Park even on there?

>>10822401
Bukkake.

>>10810347
It’s a bunch of genesis fanboys that think SEGA “betrayed” them with its release
They’re basically just console warriors that haven’t grown up

>>10816093
They also just plain did stupid, I mean really fucking stupid shit.
>sony putting games in stores in regular CD jewelcases
>sega reusing sega-cd mamoth shitcases, needing four times the space per copy
Retailers looked at that disparity and were just like, sega, fuck off.

>>10839802
This is what happens when your CEOs and other important figures at the top of the company receive their positions mostly due to seniority. That's part of the corporate ethics in Japan.
On one hand, it's great because the employee is assured to receive promotions to higher positions as long as he gives his all to the company, which in reality means spending most of your life at work. They have a meme labor law where 8 hour workday is to be expected in theory, but in reality doing unpaid overtime, leaving the building as the last person means that you are loyal, respectful and useful to the company that takes care of your health insurance, accommodation and so on. You could say, a corporation in Japan is like a second family and an employee is expected to treat working there as if he was running his own business - so, giving it all and treating with respect those workers who are his seniors.
Now, while this causes Japanese corporations to have a "humane" face on one side, it also leads many people to despair, as they are left with no time for themselves, let alone finding time for dating in hopes of building a family.
The seniority system also has the side-effect where people not suitable to hold important decision-making positions, get promoted to them. When you have a number of people like that in high places, the result is a company which appears to act erratically and slow, as every reaction to the market trends gets bounced back and forth between people who have no idea what to do and try to place the responsibility for the next move on someone else on the board. Japanese have an intense fear of making the wrong call, making a fools of themselves, so they keep looking for a person on the board who will be forced to take the blame in case the planning backfires. When you have people who push their ideas for reasons of a huge ego, then the result is very poor. Often, compromises are being made (like in 32X case) where there should have been NONE.

>>10826843
This picture sums up Segay Saturn cultists perfectly - closed minds, eyes wide open, yet blind, the rings representing their limited mental faculties, which helplessly turn around a gaseous giant, which is Saturn. Saturn appears to be large, deep and important. Meanwhile, it's a puffed up mass of rarified gas, with no unique substance. This is Saturn. This is your mind on Japanese boomer's farts which are heavy enough to condense into a sphere of pure fart gas and shit particles.

>>10826827
I only learned about Saturn's existence when I noticed that local gaming cafes carried it as a playing option. I only knew of Nintendie and Pony Slaystation before.

>>10840793
I've never seen anyone hurt by a failed game console as much as you seem to have been.
Were you forced to take one up your ass by homosexual bullies dressed like sanshiro or something?

>>10831306
Sega Saturn RF Unit
>Switch between playing the Genesis or watching TV!

Wait a minute... So they already knew Saturn is so shit that you'd rather use the cable to play Genesis instead of SEnoGAyme Saturn!
Based retailers giving Segay the deal they deserved.

>>10840718
>>sony putting games in stores in regular CD jewelcases
>>sega reusing sega-cd mamoth shitcases, needing four times the space per copy
Sony used the giant cases too. It wasn't until 2 years later that they switched over to regular jewel cases.

>>10831868
>buy 4chins pass for 20 bucks
>no more captcha to solve
>your bot is now running efficiently and you won't get banned since you're a paying customer

Okay, you can get banned but only if you're using it to post shit that egregiously violates the rules. Otherwise you're good.

>>10840636
NTA but Altered Beast is related to Golden Axe IIRC. Also jurassic Park sold very very well. Same with Aladdin which is not on that list.

>>10840762
>Japanese promote based on seniority. Not performance.
I just want to say this is a very good post. Most gamers don't realize this. Very underrated.

American companies operate in reverse. They mostly hire based on past performance. Tom Kalinske ran a successful company before coming to Sega.

>>10834980
My Mom loved playing NES games. We played together so many games, I can only mention a few of which names I know - SuperContra, Ice Climber, Dizzy, various tank games (there were one where you had a Jeep and used it to throw grenades at various enemies (turrets mainly) and rescued POWs in order to gain weapon upgrades), etc.

She loved playing Dr. Mario when I was at school. It was so cool to have a parent (especially when it was your mom, when everyone expected it would be my dad) who was good at vidya to my friends, she was better at Super Mario Bros than the rest of us.
Rest in peace, mom. She died of lung cancer when she was only 53 years old.
I Love You.

>>10840860
You had a cool Mom. Much respect to her.

NES/SNES games still simple enough in design that anyone could pick up the controller and join in. Very similar to arcade machines. I love this older era of game. It was so easy for any one to Access.

The 2D design probably was close to what your mom was used to. She probably grew up in the 60s, 70s, and 80s. So she was around for Pong and Pac Man era of arcades. So Super Mario was still 2D and pretty relatable to her.


Modern consoles are such a time sink. Gotta Download 50GB to 150GB patch files, have high speed internet, and some games like Dark Souls and Elden Ring are way too intense. No way a parent is joining in. Couch co-op is dead too.

>>10840872
Yep. With time, the games got more and more complex. When WoW came out, she liked to watch me play. She was very impressed by the size and sheer beauty of Warcraft world. Sometimes, I'd just walk around from a zone to the next just to show her the sights. Hell, I've got a whole brand new PC with a fresh Geforce GPU (I don't remember the name), but WoW looked and played on this new machine like a rediscovered great game.
She liked to watch me doing raids, when you had a team of 40 people and all of them on teamspeak.
She kept playing on a laptop, I installed Windows 7 for her and she absolutely loved the new Aero look. She played Solitaire religiously from that point on.
Sometimes, I wonder what would my life look like if I didn't lose her when I needed her the most. I had to leave my house when my alcoholic abusive dad moved back in and from that time on, suddenly, I was alone, on the street. With only a backpack with things most important.
I've managed somehow, but damn. I can't believe what a ride the previous 10 years were. I'm 33 now and feel like I've been through more shit than most of people I talk to here, who complain about silly things like having no girlfriend. But they have a place to live, food, water, living parents. Many of them loving enough to let them NEET as grown ass men. They don't know how good they have it. Imagine suddenly becoming homeless, no money, no extended family to help you, friends who left your home city long ago. Only yourself and your wits to count on. I really wish that none of you are ever found in a situation where you're forced to transform from an introvert into an extrovert in a moment's notice. I imagine it would be terrible to people anxious around people.

>>10810347
American board so expect American fanboys fanboying about most American thing which is Sega when it comes to retro things.

Sega was more popular overseas than in Japan.

>>10840918
What do you do for a living or work? Anything gaming related?

>>10840926
Sega was popular everywhere but the Saturn was only really popular in Asia

>>10843215
You were literally "that guy" if you liked Sega consoles/games lmao in japan.

>>10813098
(It had better arcade ports than the other consoles at the time.)

>>10840926
>Sega was more popular overseas than in Japan.
It was only ever popular in Japan. Sega threw away all their Western success because of their pride and wanting to win in Japan.

>>10810851
So a shmup and a pc fps... ok is that it? Aren't those on ps1?

Quake is a good game I'm just not sure it's worth buy an entire console for that 1 game and a few shmups

>>10843576
that’s cool because nobody needs to buy an actual Saturn anymore
maybe someday this thread will finally hit bump limit.

>>10843587
>please, sell your saturn!

>>10810851
>the best console port of Quake
>N64 Quake exists
Lol?

>>10840598
I don't have the time or inclination to work on becoming board certified in order to better deal with you retards.

>>10840386
>>10840408
>>10844023
>I reject reality and replace it with my own

>>10810347
Weebs who are obsessed with 2D games on 3D consoles.

>>10844086
Saturn 2d games where pretty good

I just wanted to post somewhere to say that the Rhea is such a silly device, at least by 2024 standards. Why do you have to convert multi bin/cue (which seems to be the redump standard) into .ccd? My microSD card died, so manually converting everything again and it's painful.
To be fair, had the thing since 2015 and it's still going strong to Deunan's credit. Pseudo Saturn Kai has made it a bit nicer than using the old RMENU in recent years too.

>>10844026
>I reject reality and replace it with my own
classic Saturn-enthusiast self-own

>>10810347
It's called Segay Satroon for a reason.

>>10811273
>company mascot is made of triangles
>new console renders in quadrilaterals
What the fuck were they thinking?

>>10844359
didnt the model 1 and 2 also render in quads?

>>10821653
Yes but there's 1 level (canyon stage) where they really fucked up the collision detection.

>>10844241
Really?
I have a Fenrir and it wants cue/bin with tracks

>>10844086
Saturn is a 2D console.

HOW TO SAVE THE SATURN!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JPrtMBuMjU

>>10843252
>You were literally "that guy" if you liked Sega consoles/games lmao in japan
The Saturn sold more than the N64 in Japan

>>10810347
I cannot speak for others, but the Sega Saturn is one of my most favorite consoles because it gave me so many great gaming experiences and continues to do so. A top 5 gaming console to me, for sure. The library has titles which appeal to me, but I can admit that they aren't typically the kinds of games that others like which could contribute to how I see it as overhated. Part of the reason it resonates with me was the games were cheap in its day because it was so rejected by others which gave me the opportunity to actually have a chance at trying them out. In a group setting with my friends, we all enjoyed the quirkyness and there was always something new to discover. I think the system has gotten more exposure to many others thanks to ODE and emulation improvements which gave them the chance at trying out the games too, but like all things Sega, it is for very particular tastes which was not for the majority.