/vr/ - Retro Games

>>10793207
I love Doom 3 but the gunplay does not feel as good as in Doom 2 or Quake. The guns are peashooters and monster reactions at being shot as well as lack of proper gibs is disappointing.
If Doom 3 felt as good as a proper id shooter it would've been remembered more fondly.

Also, define boomer shooter. Is Quake 2 a boomer shooter? Asking because Doom 3 is basically the same game as Quake 2 but with more darkness and audio logs. The gameplay is basically the same.

early 2000s was around the time that "next-generation" was thrown around a lot. doom 3 is the only game that i thought really lived up to be truly next-gen. it was crysis before crysis. i literally would just spend hours in that early cafe hangout area playing that arcade game and then opening and closing those blinds. doom 3 brought my 9700 screaming to its knees. also much like crysis, outside of the graphical presentation it's a very mediocre game.

>>10793207
somebody post the pasta

>>10793207
nobody expected a shitty half life clone I can tell you that much

>>10793271
this
It wasnt that doom3 was bad.. it just wasnt doom++ which everyone wanted and with effort could have been delivered.

>>10793207
it's great, but too spooky for me

people didn't want half-life with stencil shadows. Doom 4 came out many years later and was more traditional than this, whilst also innovating on the boomer concept, and was adored for it

The gun sound effects are really bad. You need to patch the game to make it not sound like shit. I think that's part of why the reaction was what it was.
I know why the sound effects were the way they were, you don't need to reply to me explaining it.

Still better than Doom Eternal, not as good as Eternal Doom

The game is called DOOM not DAYCARE FOR LITTLE BABIES. If you’re mad it has horror elements and you can’t le heckin rip and tear like in doom 1 and 2 (both dated pieces of garbage) maybe a game like SpongeBob battle for bikini bottom on the ps2 is more your speed.

>>10793223
>Also, define boomer shooter. Is Quake 2 a boomer shooter? Asking because Doom 3 is basically the same game as Quake 2 but with more darkness and audio logs. The gameplay is basically the same.
Came in the thread to say literally this.
Doom 3 pretty much got that classic Id gameplay with strafe jumping, monster closets and unrealistic arcade shooter item placements.
>>10793318
>Doom 4 came out many years later and was more traditional than this
If your idea of tradition is Brutal Doom and slaughtershit usermaps that is. Might as well call it a spoof of Serious Sam 3 at that point.

>>10793532
I'd take Doom 3 over Eternal Doom any day.

>>10793665
What's wrong with Eternal Doom? I was planning to play it.

>>10793207
Its slow and the guns feel bad
People say half life killed the fps genre for being a movie game with shitty combat and doom 3 is basically a half life clone but worse in every way aside from its visuals

They should have leaned harder in the Survival Horror direction. I had an absolutely absurd amount of spare ammo available throughout the whole game, especially for the shotgun, which destroyed the tension. heard that they added EVEN MORE ammo in the BFG edition which is just so ridiculous to me.

>>10793736
*schizos aka codex faggots say
FTFY

I liked sprinting up to imps and blasting them in the face then watch them evaporate

It's a cacographic game, full of caca inside and out

>>10793318
>Doom 4 came out many years later and was more traditional than this, whilst also innovating on the boomer concept, and was adored for it
I thought we hated Doom 4 because of the limit placed on the number of enemies which could be up at a given time. Do we like Doom 4 now? In what way did it innovate on the boomer shooter concept?

>>10793207
Quake 4 is the exact same game but actually good.

>>10793963
Quake 4 is a lot different though. Especially during the beginning with a way slower movement and CoD like scripted sections and the way the game treats it's environments.

>>10793207
The fact that this game remains relevant in the collective minds of the gaming community 21 years after its release is enough of a quality testament to me. Kinda makes you think when people still talk about this one but Doom 2016 and the shit sequel have already faded away.

>>10793982
Even before you get strogged it plays faster than doom 3.

>>10794000
No, not at all. You can hardly build up any speed as a regular human in Q4, while I can see myself clearing some Defrag courses in D3.

>>10793207
Back then id did not have a reputation of being just competent, as now. People expected something special, not a fairly straightforward HL clone, as anon said. Nobody expected or wanted it to be a SS/Painkiller though, these types of games were seen as quick cheap fun, nothing to be excited about.

>>10794070
>HL clone
It's a cross between Quake 2 and System Shock, not a HL clone.

>>10793318
Doom 4/2016 is hot garbage. It's like someone asked a chatbot what doom was and parodied it further.
>>10793696
Eternal turns Doom into some CHOSEN ONE MARVEL CAPESHIT story.

>>10794098
Nah.

>>10793696
Eternal Doom is like a 'concept' .wad, every map is intended to be played Pistol Start, and the combat is largely balanced around that, ergo it's mostly subdued. If you carry over stuff from previous levels you end up way overpowered as the enemy encounters aren't scaled at all for that.
It's overall mostly geared towards exploration, and in a fair few levels the way forward is to find a pretty sneakily hidden secret button or path. Considering that it uses some Heretic and Hexen assets, you could argue that it's Doom trying to be more like Hexen, though even that is not entirely correct.

It has some charm to it, and you might enjoy it, but it very much runs contrary to common Dooming conventions even for its time. It was also a project by a group called Team Eternal, until Team TNT (the Final Doom guys), apparently absorbed up the project and filled out the map slots, for better and for worse.
There are some sequels to Eternal Doom made for ZDoom I think, but I don't know how they differ.

Doom 3 is just a way more exciting experience to me in comparison. Doom 3 has its flaws, but it does escalate combat as it goes and it tries playing harder and harder, and the progression is never convoluted. I find the shooting and fighting pretty fun overall in that game.

>>10794162
Marathon
>>10793736
Bait

>>10793207
i fucking loved that level where the whole lab is shifting in and out of hell and there are corpses fused to the walls and shit that was pure kino, the completely butchered that area in the bfg edition, no more fused corpses and when the lab shifts to hell mode all you get is a fain red glow, you can even see out the window at the beginning of the level, its all covered up now

>>10793696
I kinda like it a bit, but it's the kind of .wad which WILL make you exclaim "How the fuck was I supposed to figure that out?"
It feels like it's designed with a Point & Click adventure mindset, and it feels like if you tried to adapt the concept of a SCUMM game which never got made into a Doom mod, ergo putting a square peg in a round hole.
It really calls for the player having an inventory of key items for solving puzzles, and for finding written notes and even characters to speak to and interact with, but there's nothing of the sort, just figuring out that some things are concealed buttons or teleporters, or that the door forward is a secret one.

There's a reason this style of mapping isn't common at all, even self-proclaimed lovers of Eternal Doom do not map exactly like Eternal Doom.

>>10794098
There's definitely some Half-Life in there, along with System Shock, just in terms of the game's structure. It does a very similar thing where it's mainly a shooter, but there's occasional stopping to listen to someone talk, or finding a record you'd look at for explanations and clues.
It's however a lot less "cinematic" than HL or HL2, the intro is much shorter, and there's far less mandatory exposition, you can find many logs but most of them are just worldbuilding and helping you find extra supplies, they only occasionally hold important information for progressing.

Because Doom and Doom 2 had some horror moments, it tries to play up horror a bunch, but I don't think it works that well. The jumpscares are very formulaic and predictable, so they stop scaring you and you just stop being startled, you just turn to blast the monster and then go on with your business.

>>10794139
>Eternal turns Doom into some CHOSEN ONE MARVEL CAPESHIT story.
That's Doom Eternal.
>>10794190
>It's overall mostly geared towards exploration, and in a fair few levels the way forward is to find a pretty sneakily hidden secret button or path. Considering that it uses some Heretic and Hexen assets, you could argue that it's Doom trying to be more like Hexen, though even that is not entirely correct.
That does sound like classic Raven level design formula that they got from dungeon crawlers and that they only let go after Jedi Outcast.
>>10794224
>It feels like it's designed with a Point & Click adventure mindset, and it feels like if you tried to adapt the concept of a SCUMM game which never got made into a Doom mod, ergo putting a square peg in a round hole.
That does sound interesting to me, but yeah, it would likely benefit from some light scripting and inventory, a la Hexen or even Strife.

>>10794292
>That's Doom Eternal.
Yeah, the similar names mixed me up.

>>10793574
>maybe a good game would better than this glorified tech demo
Okay?

>>10793207
They were never gonna please everyone with this game but they did a great job

>>10793223
>define boomer shooter
games that feel like Doom 1, such as Doom 2, Douk, Blood, Dark Forces, Quake 1, Wolfenstein, etc

>>10794395
Out of the entire list only Doom 2 feels like Doom 1.

The fact that this is considered a good FPS by the standards of the 2000's really just shows that the standards had dropped to the bottom of Atlantis.

>>10793207
id were seen as visionaries with the ability to push forward the gener and deliver next generation gameplay and concepts. Doom 3 is an awkward, stunted and poorly paced game that is incredibly easy and has a super predictable gameplay flow and crap encounters. Resurrection of Evil delivers on Doom 3's premise entirely and in just a few levels, with no extra fat.

>>10793963
I thought Quake 4 wasn't too good overall. It has some ok parts, and that iconic scene in the middle, It wasn't terrible, but it's so linear

>>10793897
>In what way did it innovate on the boomer shooter concept?
There is a lot more verticality as you're jumping around everywhere, a common description for the game back in 2016 was "Tony Hawk with a shotgun" and it makes sense since you're jumping even more than actual FPS platformers like Metroid Prime. The actual platforming and level design isn't as good as something like Jedi Knight but what you get in Doom 4 is a massive inventory of tactically unique weapons to tear up a legion of tactically unique enemies with, whilst looking for secrets. It was an instant classic and did what Doom 3 should've.

>>10793354
My top peeve of d3 is the machine gun sound effect. It is piercingly sharp

>>10793223
>I love Doom 3 but the gunplay does not feel as good as in Doom 2 or Quake. The guns are peashooters and monster reactions at being shot as well as lack of proper gibs is disappointing.
>If Doom 3 felt as good as a proper id shooter it would've been remembered more fondly.
This is absolutely correct and is my biggest issue with it as well. If this alone was fixed just as you said it would be regarded more highly.

>>10794471
They all feel like Doom 1

>>10793207
The only thing that filtered me was having to switch from the flash light to the guns. Would easily make it better to get rid of that

>>10795749
There's a lot of mods for that. One fixes a flashlight to the pistol, SMG, shotgun, and plasma rifle, another decouples it from the weapons entirely.

The official BFG Edition from years back redid the flashlight Half-Life style, attaching it to your armor and giving it a slowly depleting meter which recharges when it's off. BFG Edition also increases a lot of the health and ammo available to make the game easier (as if it wasn't pretty generous with that before), and it also uses the XBox version as a basis, so a lot of sections from the expansion is cut out. Mostly from the hell parts, which is a crying shame because Doom 3's hell is really cool and has the best levels.

Being real also, one or two good off the shelf commercial batteries could easily run a good flashlight for 12 hours straight, so Half-Life and BFG Edition's flashlight setup is pretty fucking silly.
Some people really like the whole having to choose between light and might, as a horror thing, but I personally disagree because I think Doom 3's horror is not particularly scary, and more just mildly annoying 99% of the time, so I prefer just cutting the shit and focusing on the combat, which a better flashlight enables.

The scariest part of Doom 3 is when you take a look at a monitor and a Trite crawls out from behind it, which always makes me jump, but I feel that the only reason it works so well is because I'm an arachnophobe.

>>10793207
>it felt like a horror game but was really an action game at the end of the day
It is so much more fun if you play it like an action game. Being aggressive makes the shotgun slightly less than useless

>>10796220
That was a good one.

>>10796517
I just realized that BFG Edition locks your camera in and focuses/zooms slightly to make sure that you don't miss it. Weird change, I think it works much better this way.

Even though I think Doom 3's monster design is a bit lacking in color, and some monsters look a bit too similar to each other, a lot of it is honestly pretty good. The Hellknights, the Ticks & Trites, the Pinky, the Zombies, the Hell Commandos, these dudes are all pretty damn cool.

>>10796534
>I just realized that BFG Edition locks your camera in and focuses/zooms slightly to make sure that you don't miss it.
That's kind of lame, yeah. This asshole moment honestly gave me the biggest jump, almost blew him away.
I'm going to agree about the monster design. I like to think Adrian Carmack was around keeping not just the enemies interesting, but for making sure there's still that 'weird and gross' feeling to some of Hell. I also think the lack of color and 'pale' look to a lot of the enemies is very appropriate.

>>10796534
I always thought the lost souls looked really cool.

>>10793207
I only hated that I had to switch between the flashlight and my gun. It's like, what kind of cumdump future is this where those are separate? Space marine my ass.
They fixed it later and I've had no complaints since.

>>10796884
no duct tape on mars

>>10793207
...why not, they were still making Quake games at that point.

>>10793207
anon doom3 was just a shitty half life clone

>>10796979
I can use bailing twine, wire, or whatever sinew I find.
The light stays on, end of story.

>>10797027
It's an old joke about how easy this would be to arrange. One of the flashlight mods from back in the day is outright titled Duct Tape.

>>10797057
I never got into doom 3 back then. I got half life 2 ( my mom made me play all educational games right until then and it came like a flood) and never looked back. I had to go back and play Doom 3 and honestly, it's good.
For sure after Goldeneye and Mayan Trail but yeah, good.

>>10793223
Damn, this summed up everything I thought of when I saw the topic.
Yes, this is it. Doom 3 for me has pretty damn good atmosphere. In fact, good enough atmosphere that I love imagining myself being posted there as a marine pre-disaster and having patrols around the base and night shifts at control points

But the feedback from the weapons is lame beyond measure. It's not just the power of the weapons that is lacking, it's also that enemies do not react to being shot prior to dying and the environment is static af. Compare that to something like Wolfenstein The New Order or Doom 2016.. the feedback is incredible.

Only the melee zombie enemies seem to react to shots.

>>10797006
Doom 3 is more fun than Half Life

>>10797006
>>10797761
I hate both of your opinions.

>>10793223
Horror games are supposed to make you feel weak and desperate, not invincible super Space Marine like in Quake and Doom.

>>10793207
i remember a lot of hype pre release about the dynamic shadows and it ended up being a tech demo of john carmack that has mediocre gameplay like every game after q3a

>>10797895
I think that Doom 1 did this better than Doom 3 in the sense that there are times where you are less equipped and are at a distinct disadvantage. The tight and murky wooden maze in E2M6, which has spectres and barons, I think works pretty well still, it has a very oppressive atmosphere.

>>10797925
Doom is either "dude shoot em all!!" or "run like a retard looking for keys"

Doom 3 at least had a consistent design

>>10797949
Much of the original Doom's design philosophy is derived from D&D dungeon design thinking, you explore and look for stuff, and there's monsters to fight, with devious traps and ambushes.
They were all seasoned tabletop nerds who liked to take breaks to play a session of D&D, with the lead level designer being an elite tabletop nerd who had previously written tabletop games and modules.

The shooting monsters part is supposed to regularly play into exploring the environment, which will lead to more monsters to shoot and more guns and ammo to shoot monsters with. It's consistent in that sense.
Doom 3 basically still does this, but rather than enclosed and self-contained instances (levels), it goes for a more linear design, and I mean linear in the Half-Life sense, not so much the Nu-COD sense.

>>10793207
Doom 3 is great, because it tried something different. I don't care what anyone says about it. You can pound sand for all I care.

>>10798023
I have some complaints about the game, but overall I think it's fairly solid and I enjoy it. Have gone back to it many times.

>>10793207
The original concept of the Doom franchise is Doom 3
Didn't happened in the 90s because of tech limitations.

I love Doom 3 and I can not lie

>>10797895
>weak and desperate
Shut the hell up. If they changed nothing of the actual power and bullets-per-killed enemy ratio but made the physics of enemies and sound and look of the guns good it would be miles better just from that.

>>10798101
It uses some of the concepts from Tom Hall's Doom Bible, but if you sat down and read through it (which you should), then you'd see that it's still pretty different.

>>10797895
Even then the game fails at this cuz its piss easy even on ultra-violence as you're showered with ammo and you're only fighting 2-3 enemies at once.

>>10793318
>traditional
lmfao doom 2016 is fucking retarded and so is eternal and so are you.
Its literally fucking mario Doom

>>10793757
theres mods to improve the feel and sound of guns, add peak around corners and survival gameplay.
people should just try modding it to tighten ot up how they like it.
Thats the beauty of mods

>>10797949
>run like a retard looking for keys
I was never a fan of this aspect of Doom

>>10801449
Are you suggesting Doom 3 is more traditional?

>>10802458
are you suggesting doom 2016 is "traditional"?

The basic ingredients of doom 3 are all good, it's also my favorite iteration of idtech.
The problem, even on nightmare, is that the game is just too easy. Not enough enemies are sent against you, not including the scripted powerup arenas. This itself wouldn't be too bad, but it's also pretty long, so it just ends up being boring.

System Shock 2 is the thinking man's Doom 3

>>10793207
I think the horror direction was a neat idea. I just don't think the execution was quite there for me. I'd rather play RE4 or Dead Space.

Remembering forum nerds posting black squares and going new Doom 3 screenshot hurrhurrhurrhurr

>>10803341
the hate this games receives seems to emanate from a minority. I wouldn't be surprised of it was one of those things started largely by one obsessed autist

And then a year later we got the movie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9khorIW_G0

its actually ironic because Doom 2016 is very obviously based on Doom 3. Almost to the point it could be thought of as a sequel.
So its weird some faggot itt claiming its more "traditional" vs 3.
The highlights of 2016 were all the nods to Doom 3. Basically the game is a series of Doom 3 style segments interrupted with unrealistic arena stage fights. That makes no sense.

>>10803050
Do you know what the word "more" means you disingenuous cunt? Fuck off.

>>10803657
you are the disingenuous cunt. What do you even mean by traditional? not like doom 1? well no shit you actual cunt.
But if we take traditional to mean following the pattern of previous titles, Doom 3 is not much different to previous 3d fps corridor shooters that came before it.
So yes its more traditional and you are a fucking moron you actual cunt.

>>10803839
WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU THINK TRADITIONAL MEANS?

>>10803857
what do you think it means idiot? i just said what it means. Do you have something wrong with your brain you fucking retard?

>>10803869
You supposed that the corridor shooter Doom 3 is somehow traditional in any stretch of the imagination. Do you not think that "traditional" might refer to the TRADITIONAL design elements of shooters you sorry wad of shit? Fucking Christ.

>>10803880
Yes, its a typical 3d fps corridor shooter like dozens before it.
Do you think there were literally no games between Doom 1 and Doom3?
How is Doom 3 not a traditional fps game?
How is 2016 with fucking fatalities, wall jumping, double jumping, rpg upgrades and ammo pinatas traditional?

Are you a fucking idiot? don't answer i know you are, every fucking time a n anti-Doom 3 shitposter is a low iq moron seething the game wasn't a sprite shooter

>>10803880
stop breathing
>Without the atmosphere, DOOM 3 is a plain shooter that hearkens back to those of the '90s. Certainly, that's what id was trying to do, and they've done it. While I don't appreciate those types of shooters as much as I used to, it didn't really matter. I was drawn in and addicted almost completely from the moment that nameless marine arrived at Mars City to the moment the final credits began rolling.
https://www.ign.com/articles/2004/08/06/doom-3-review

>>10803880
Commit suicide dumb cunt

Extremely impressive from a technical standpoint yet behind the times from a first-person-shooter design standpoint: This is the dichotomy that is Doom 3, the long-awaited sequel from well-known Texas-based developer id Software. Doom 3 is quite possibly the best-looking game ever, thanks to the brand-new 3D graphics engine used to generate its convincingly lifelike, densely atmospheric, and surprisingly expansive environments. At the same time, when you look past the spectacular appearance, you'll find a conventional, derivative shooter. In fact, if you played the original Doom or its sequel back in the mid '90s (or any popular '90s-era shooter, for that matter), you may be shocked by how similarly Doom 3 plays to those games. The legions of id Software's true believers will celebrate this straightforwardness as being deliberately "old school," especially since Doom 3 is packed with direct references to its classic predecessors. However, the truth of the matter is that Doom 3's gameplay structure and level design are behind the times and very much at odds with the game's cutting-edge, ultrarealistic looks. Yet the quality of the presentation truly is remarkable--enough so that it overwhelms Doom 3's occasional problems.
https://www.gamespot.com/reviews/doom-3-review/1900-6104145/

>>10803889
Here's some games inbetween Doom 1 and Doom 3:
>Quake
>Duke Nukem 3D
>Jedi Knight
>I'm not going to continue the list because you are a troll and my point was obvious before I began writing.

>>10793207
what is this dimpleheaded motherfucker supposed to be? an imp? why is he green?

Can you make up your mind, fucker? Is Doom 3 a corridor shooter (>>10803839) or not (>>10803895) (>>10803902)? Which fucking one? Give your answer in the next reply or I am done here.

>>10803904
How is Doom 3 not traditional? why cant you answer?
Even games at the time had defaulted to Halo's limited number of weapons and recharge shield system.
Doom 3 still had the good ol hp, armour and full access to every gun you collected.

You are an idiot

>>10803909
absolute subhuman troll. Laughing at how hard you lost.
Fucking kys you fat piece of stupid shit.

>>10803913
Thank you for conceding.

>>10803914
you conceded by not addressing any of the posts. Fucking fool

>retarded pixel shit shooter hipster
>durr doom 3 isn't EXACTLY like my boomer shooter fetish games. its not heckin trad pilled
>intelligent poster: actually Doom 3 is just your bog standard traditional 90s 3d shooter
>retard: [inane spastic trolling and seething noises]

>>10797949
???
95% of the time keys in classic Doom are in plain sight and the path to them is obvious and usually involves killing a bunch of crap so you can flick a switch which is likely in the same room as the key. Very, very rarely do you just run around like a retard looking for keys. Unless uh... you're a retard.

>>10803427
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmN1Xk1SdwQ