/vr/ - Retro Games

If that’s the case then you have no taste and should really go back to playing Hello Kitty games

I feel similarly. "Frictionless" is a good word to describe it, I think. It flows well enough, but doesn't have anything to really latch onto. It definitely feels like a game for people who aren't that into the genre.

It has a nice soundtrack, though.

>dude this SNES game is the BEST GAME EVAR!!
>it's okay at best
Why do people like this console again?

Is the best jrpg ever made, and I can’t really name a better jrpg.

It's a decent game. I can't think of anything it does particularly wrong but nothing it does particularly right, either

>>10789108
>one opinion
>a completely different opinion

what point were you trying to make

>>10789142
>but nothing it does particularly right
????

Why is this board filled with contrarian weirdos lately

>>10789294
The majority of discussions are now 5+ gen, vr doesn’t care anymore about the snes.

>>10789304
>vr doesn’t care anymore about the snes.
That would be a refreshing change of pace.

oh yeah the ps1 games where you wander around with no objective are soooo much better

I don't have any nostalgia for SNES but Chrono Trigger is pretty good.
It's no Terranigma though, that one is *chef's kiss*

>>10789082
Also im trans btw

>>10789082
The only things it has going for it is the soundtrack and the quests for everyone's final weapons, but those parts are good enough to make it a must-play.

>>10789142
It has really solid pacing. Very little filler, if any. That's what makes it such a great introduction to the genre. That's the only area where it excels, though. Otherwise, it's pretty average.

>>10789294
Most of the "best games of all time" lose their luster once you've played through a thousand or so titles. As people get older and play more games, critical reevaluation is bound to happen.

>>10789409
You realize it's possible to dislike both, right?

>>10789426
I don't usually go for this sort of thing, but I love the moodier tracks from the future. This one in particular: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTyQehTr3uk

>>10789082
>this jrpg i played 20+ times start to finish since 1995 isnt as good as it was the first time i played it

>>10789142
>nothing it does particularly right

the combat, the story, the characters, the time travel concept, and being the best looking game on the super nintendo

>>10789105
How you described it actually is how it feels to me.
I wouldn't say I'm a huge JRPG player but when I tried this about 10 years ago for the first time, It was pretty good but it seemed to lack something to grip me with it. Can't place what I didn't like about it, considering I went through star ocean 2 around the same time and that felt a much less polished game.
I've considered that I just didn't give it a real try, but I can't really place a squaresoft game I've genuinely found worth the effort.

>>10789274
It's just one guy who has been spamming the board for a while now trying to convince people that a console that was always ubiversally liked was suddenly bad all along.
A weird agenda to have but i'm not surprised after so many years of reading 4chan

>>10789082
There are much better JRPGS out there.

>>10791140
Only if you cherry-pick one particular metric.

>>10789316
not really. poster quality here, while never great, has gone down measurably as /v/ refugees find their way in.

>>10789082
2/10 not enough random encounters

cool i never played it. i played ff6 instead

>>10791153
If that particular metric is being a good game, then sure.

It's really mediocre and not worth playing a second time. But credit where credit is due, it provided the basis for its superior sequel. Like an intricate flower grows from dirt.

>>10791609
Nope. CT is an exceptionally good game.

>>10792050
I played it for the very first time a month or two ago, and I really enjoyed it. Random encounters being avoidable make the game much less tedious than many other JRPGs where the random encounters get annoying after a while.

>>10792072
>Random encounters being avoidable make the game much less tedious
Instead, they're forced on you when you hit certain points on the map, which isn't much better.

>>10792075
Each fight is much more engaging because it is specifically made with the tools available to you in mind, and not just generic slop #23123

>>10789082
Schala ruined this game and its legacy irreversibly

I really, really like chrono triggers atmosphere and music. I'm currently replaying it two decades later, because on my first time, I went straight to Lavos, died, and thought the game was over here.
The problem I have with it is that it feels very linear and easy.
How do games like FFVI compare? I wanna play more JRPGs.

>>10789082
Can you guys sell me on this game? Should I play it? Why? What's so great about it?

>>10792389
dunno, it's a very simple game mechanically, but with massive amounts of soul and love. artstyle by the guy who made dragonball. lots of cute scenes. OST will create bittersweet feelings of nostalgia.
I also love the overworld map and how it changes depending on where you are.

>>10792389
I'd agree with this guy>>10792408
Except that I'd say it's not fair to characterize the mechanics as "very simple."
They are streamlined and accessible with an extra layer of casual-proofing relative to other, less "entry-level" JRPGs, but it's not crude and simplistic by any means. There's a decent set of combat rules with a solid range of varied abilities with lots of room to mix and match characters, abilities and equipment for different results.

Also it's a very fast-paced game by modern standards and the main story can be finished in 20 hours pretty easily (unlocking a NG+ mode if you want more)

>>10792375
>How do games like FFVI compare?
Similar, but different atmosphere and slightly more "serious" of an RPG. FF6 is still extremely casual, but less entry-level than Chrono Trigger. In FF6 you can form a party of one even if that's your weakest shit character then take them to the tyrano forest for a random encounter that kills them in one shot. CT doesn't let you do shit like that. In general FF6 has more abilities, more enemies, more party members in combat, and a longer, more involved story. The sprites are chibi and not CT's larger, cartoony sprites.

>>10789082
I don't care if you are young OP but have you arrived at this opinion as a zoomie playing it for the first time or an oldfag replaying after 25 years? I'm just interested in where your opinion is comming from

>>10792389
It's a crowd pleasing JRPG roller coaster ride that does everything right. It's a perfect game with a fun, cool story packed with goofy Toriyama characters.
If you've been on the fence about playing jrpgs this is a great starting point.

>>10789082
It's easily the best paced RPG of all time. Games STILL don't understand how to match CT's plot structure. It's wild how they nailed it in 1995 and haven't figured out how to do it again.

>>10793467
It's just a basic Syd Field plot structure. Simple, but effective.

>>10789082
I really have to agree. The graphics are great and the soundtrack is undoubtedly one of the best but everything else is pretty lacking.

I'm really not impressed with the story, the time travel stuff is neat but everything that actually happens feels completely disconnected, its just stuff happening for the sake of it not because it has much of anything to do with a larger narrative. The game is also incredibly easy and lacks a lot of the typical JRPG engagement. Since all of the enemy encounters are set you can't really ever be underleveled unless you intentionally run away from most of the battles. Some would say this is a good thing but to me it just makes me feel like I lack agency, never truly grow and like the game might as well be playing itself.

It's an alright game, I don't hate it, but I would be hard pressed to pick it over any of the other JRPGs on the SNES or even most other systems. Id take Mario RPG over it any day even though a lot if my same criticisms apply to it too.

>>10789459
>and being the best looking game on the super nintendo
That's FF6

>>10793493
And yet so many games fail at it. I think one reason is most RPGs aren't comfortable being as short as CT is so you get a lot of padding or other issues. Chrono Cross is a great counterexample because of how it fails to properly pace its narrative. The way it info dumps on you the game's entire story in the last act? CT doesn't do that. I have a hard time picking out RPGs with pacing as good at CT. Mass Effect 2 comes close. Mario RPG too but that's less because of plot structure and more because the game is about as short. While most RPGs try to be like a 40+ hour long movie, CT is more like a TV series with a proper A/B plot structure where there's the plot of that particular episode along with the overarching plot of the show.

>>10793534
>but everything that actually happens feels completely disconnected, its just stuff happening for the sake of it not because it has much of anything to do with a larger narrative.
Its funny you say that because I think the exact opposite. Every complication that arises is related to what had just happened. The overarching goal is at first to just get home and then to stop Lavos but along the way problems arise stemming from the characters' actions. Simple example right at the start is the whole Marle/Leene issue that causes Marle to disappear. Then you get home and its mission accomplished but you get arrested because previously you both vanished and they think you're a kidnapper. That's not things happening for the sake of it. A leads to B leads to C.

I had a friend who played Chrono Trigger in these conditions

>x1 size window on a laptop
>supersai filter
>sound turned off, other music at the same time
>x3 game speed, just spam the attack button endlessly
>since that leads to death, also consistently spams savestate/loadstate
>all while alt-tabbing frequently to check on a bot grinding for him in a korean mmorpg
>all while chatting on some message thing at the same time
>the TV was also on

When I saw this, he was doing Magus' castle, so it wasn't even like it was a boring moment.

Point is, whenever someone says Chrono Trigger isn't good, I am reminded of this. This is how people play renowed masterpieces just so they can say they played it.

>>10793569
>I have a hard time picking out RPGs with pacing as good at CT.
The prior Final Fantasy games are in the same league, more or less, especially IV. It's almost like Chrono Trigger is the culmination of everything Square learned from almost a decade of making Final Fantasy games. V and VI pushed to have bigger stories and more content but still mostly kept the same pacing. The main caveat being that VI has a major pacing issue in the second half of the game because they were trying something different. But on the whole it's good I think.

>>10793563
That's clearly trials of mana.

>>10792375
>The problem I have with it is that it feels very linear and easy.
Like many dragon quest/final fantasy games, it open ups eventually. You have loads of side content/dungeons and places to explore.

>>10792389
>What's so great about it?
That it is the most polished and accessible jrpg ever made. The music, the graphics, the characters, the combat, the level design, the locations, everything is just top notch without taking risks in the gameplay or plot department like other games would. So it's a great experience overall but many jrpg players expect protagonists similar to FF7's (dark, edgy, tragic, etc).

>>10791163
This but unironically, the game would be better if it was balanced like Dragon Quest 5/6: random encounters and more challenge.

>>10793615
>V and VI pushed to have bigger stories and more content but still mostly kept the same pacing.
Is not quite like CT, the anon who compared it to a tv show nailed it. The time travel gimmick gave it the chance to explore very different locations while being tied to the main plot. This is maybe the issue with final fantasy, the places you go are just very lightly related to the player's interest. A crystal here, a villain encounter there. In CT however there is always this place you keep returning to no matter the era. The map is smaller compared to Final Fantasy 6, but that creates familiarity and traveling through time adds a novelty to the exploration.

>>10793615
You think FFIV is in the same league? That game loses it's shit halfway through. It's constantly introducing contrivances and fake out deaths just for the sake of switching your party members around. FFIV is a great example of a game that has an amazing story for the first half and completely shits the bed later on.

>>10792389
It’s everything great about JRPGs with all of the bad things cut out. It’s the genre distilled to its purest essence.

>>10793639
CT's side content and optional dungeons are also examples of it's pitch perfect plot structure. Every single one of them closes out a character's personal arc that you saw play out alongside the main game. So while they're optional, they're not GENERICALLY optional like a lot of RPG optional dungeons tend to be, like where it's just some super powerful boss fight that's there for the sake of giving your end game party a challenge. Something like FFVI also has character focused optional side quests in the World of Ruin but they're not all consistent. Locke's is very arc relevant but Strago is just caught up with a cult. CT has zero fat.

>>10793794
>It's constantly introducing contrivances and fake out deaths just for the sake of switching your party members around.
That has nothing to do with pacing.

>>10789082
Sup niggers

>>10793824
I think people are remembering the DS version more fondly than the NES original, it has more content and a postgame + better graphics.
Toriyama's art (Rest in Power) and time travel were novel and a selling point by their own by back then.

>>10793831
The post game content in the DS version is garbage though. It adds a bunch of fetch quests and repetition to a game that had none of that prior.

>>10793831
>the NES original
zoomer moment

>>10793831
My playthrough of Chrono Trigger DS was when I understood firsthand that optional content can be a detriment to the game as a whole.
It was at least a decade ago so I don't remember much but the Lost Sanctum is absolutely awful. The only part of it that clearly stuck with me is a feeling of "I never want to do this again."

>>10793831
>it has more content and a postgame
S-E's usual ROMhack-tier garbage and more forced Chrono Cross references. Trigger was such a solid game that it could stand on its own without such things.

>better graphics
It's the exact same graphics, right down to the Mode 7 magic clouds.

>>10789082
>Good entry level choice to get into JRPGs
Dragon Quest games are much better for that since most retro JRPGs are grindfest number crunchers. Chrono Trigger at least tried to shy away from all that madness.

>>10793907
>My playthrough of Chrono Trigger DS was when I understood firsthand that optional content can be a detriment to the game as a whole.

Yep.

All the "extra content" from the Square GBA/DS re-releases of that era range from "okay at best" to "utter shit" and CT on DS leans towards the latter.
It amazes me when people cry a river when a re-release doesn't include that "content", it's all they care about: "content", a sea of shit content. I guess I shouldn't be surprised since that's what modern gaming is all about.

>>10793907
>>10793941
This is why it's a good thing they cut the Singing Mountain in the original game. Based on that song's placement on the soundtrack it likely was sandwiched between Magus's Castle and Tyranno Lair. But three major dungeons in a row like that would have dragged, especially if you also had to do the Dactyl's Nest. It's also likely that the Singing Mountain had no plot relevance. In the pre-release version there's a village near it and chances are it was just some random fetch quest kind of thing, creating a barrier to you getting to the other side of the map and meeting up with Ayla. That's all conjecture, of course, but considering how tight the narrative is without it it's unlikely it would have added anything of value so getting rid of it was smart.

There's an old saying that something is done not when there's nothing more to add but when there's nothing more to remove.

>>10793610
Jesus anon that was depressing to read. It really shows how modern gaming is just a bizarre social thing for people to pass the time, like having the TV on in the background ta a party. Mortifying

>>10793610
Jesus anon that was depressing to read. It really shows how modern gaming is just a bizarre social thing for people to pass the time, like having the TV on in the background during a party. Mortifying

>>10793610
I bet a lot of people also play alongside a guide. I've done this once or twice with games and since stopped because I realize if my first playthrough is alongside GameFAQs I don't retain anything. I'll end up with a "perfect" save file but in the end it's like driving somewhere with navigation where my brain shuts off and I don't remember how to get there. And it means I'm way less likely to replay the game because I don't care about it. It ends up ruining the experience if an FAQ is anywhere near you the first time you play something. It's better to miss stuff along the way but actually experience the game first.

>>10792389
To properly shit on it better.

I was looking at old E3 footage and this popped up. Was this an early logo design? I've never seen it before.

https://youtu.be/l8sg25vqso0?si=oFIWSpTOKA8RPtBm&t=155

>>10789082
Agreed. It really is the quintessential "I don't like JRPGs, but..." JRPG.

Now that the dust has settled, OP is a fag

>>10789082

I think it's great for what it is, although it didn't blow me away like FFVI did.

I'm convinced that RPGs are one of those genres that you had to be there for when they were new in order to appreciate them on the same level. That's not a "kek zoomers" thing, either, since a lot of games that I didn't play back in the day but ended up checking out much later on through emulation didn't click with me as much as I think they would have if I played them when I was, like...12. I can acknowledge their quality but they don't imprint on me the same way.

Nowadays the kinds of stories and dialogue you get even in first person shooters shits on a lot of retro RPGs but that wasn't the norm back then since the measuring stick was Super Mario and the like. It's like how at the start of Final Fantasy 1 you save the princess from Garland. The message wouldn't have been lost of players back then who realized that the typical video game excuse plot just played out here before you even saw the game's title screen. Or how in FF3 you get the airship, fly off the edge of the map, and realize the "world" was just a tiny ass island surrounded by a MASSIVE fucking ocean. These things were big deals because they were subverting people's expectations. Chrono Trigger's dual and triple techs may not seem like anything special today but in 1995 it was pretty fucking revolutionary to have an RPG where your characters interacted with each other like that. Or a character like Magus who goes from major villain to party member. It seems super cliche today but that's because these games are where those cliches came from. So when I hear someone say Chrono Trigger wasn't all that great, what I hear is the equivalent of someone pooh-poohing the Beatles or Elvis. Or saying stuff like The Simpsons was never good.

>>10789082
On context, excellent game with good graphic design, excellent soundtrack, good overall content and characters and the gameplay was adequately good, albeit derivative. Today, it's a relic from a begone era that wouldn't be made today and I grant you if it was "remade" it would be way better, even within the SNES engine, just because of 30 years of design practices lined up on top of it. There's this game launched recently I don't remember the name that is the spiritual sucessor of this generation of JRPG that I heard people saying it was excellent. Just play that instead.

I’m amazed to read zoomers defending remakes of all things, truly a new generation is taking place.

>Chrono Trigger is excellent
>Play game I've never played instead, its better
?????

>>10789082
>meh
Your opinion is GUARANTEED to be the worst take ever heard.

chrono trigger has a well rounded adventuring party with a variety of designs and simplistic but likeable characters, most of whom get character arcs that pay off without having any one of them dominate the screen time. the combat is straightforward but for most of the game you do have to manage healing and optimize your attack patterns, especially if you don't use marle. the positioning based combat means that the best move to use does depend on the specific fight (forcing player engagement), and things like the high crit rate and nonrandom encounters keep the experience feeling more variable than a game that handles random encounters poorly (which most jrpgs do)

chrono trigger's plot feels like a well executed saturday morning cartoon, and the gameplay bucks a typical jrpg template just enough to hold a player's interest. to boil chrono trigger's appeal down to the aesthetic is an understandable criticism, but it's a baseless one.