/vr/ - Retro Games

Yeah they were retarded, did you miss the fucking memo moron

>>10756175
>turbofagix
trying too hard.

>>10756181
tardofaggix

The Turbografx had the better games than the Genesis tough. Even multi-platforms like
>Bomberman '94 / Mega Bomberman
>Cadash
>Ys III
were much better on it.

>>10756183
good 1

>>10756175
>technologically inferior
it's a 3.5 gen console. what the FUCK do you want or expect from it

>>10756230
>3.5 gen
It's actually 4th gen like the rest. The GPU has 16-bit processing. It only lacks many features like multi layered background tiles, multi directional hardware scrolling, and ample amount of work RAM. Hence it's supposed to be the cheapest console in the 4th gen.
>what the FUCK do you want or expect from it
Lower price.

turdofaggots shitpeen

>>10756349
okay I like this one

>>10756175
I don't think they really "let" it fail, they just had the unfortunate position of getting slammed by both SNES and Genesis in the same time frame. I kind of feel bad for them actually since it turned out to be a great console, but at least it did well enough in Japan.

>>10756181
Agreed

>>10756470
>they just had the unfortunate position of getting slammed by both SNES and Genesis in the same time frame
THey wouldn't have been if the PC-E came to the west earlier and wasn't so expensive. NEC had more than enough resource to do it, they were one of the biggest chip makers in Japan and the world.

Low quality thread

>>10756175
The TurboGrafx-16 was much more well known at the time due to heavy rotation of TV ads. Sega was still practically unknown/unproven to most American consumers. NEC were probably banking on that staying the same, but yeah they should have lowered the price sooner. They were practically giving them away by late-1990/1991, which is when I got mine (with Keith Courage) for $80 at Toys R Us.

>>10756175
If you're upset about the PC Engine being more expensive despite being less powerful, wait until you hear about the SNES.

>>10756175
I didn't even know Power Base Converter existed. I'm also surprised it says more than 80. I thought there were more Master System games?

>>10756175
>the Sega Base, Master, and SegaScope systems

>>10756920
Maybe it means those chip card sms games? Idk, i want a power base just for putting on a genesis.

>>10756190
ys 3 is better on genesis turbo grafx has that god awful chunky scrolling faggot

>>10757075
>Genesis > Sonic & Knuckles > Power Base > Sonic SMS
What happens??

>>10756230
>>10756342
>children quibbling over irrelevant contrived labels

>>10756920
>I didn't even know Power Base Converter existed. I'm also surprised it says more than 80. I thought there were more Master System games?

North American released Master System games circa 1989. That sounds about right, to be honest. This was the Genesis before Sonic the Hedgehog. Original units came bundled with Altered Beast. Sometimes Sega would give away the Power Base Converter for free through main-in rebates. Or offer deals where you would get a Power Base Converter and additional SMS games. The Power Base was really phased out by the time that the Genesis model 2 was released. It was more common with the Model 1 units and sometimes could be sold as cheap as $20.00.

>>10757363
>>children quibbling over irrelevant contrived labels

Nobody was arguing about "3rd gen, 4th gen" back then, when those consoles were new and sold on store shelves. It seems like the console generation labeling came around with Wikipedia, when you started seeing some sort of attempt to classify each console. The PCE/ TG-16 was a hybrid 8-bit system, based on its system specs. The CPU is 8-bit but has a 7MHz mode. The Graphics are 16bit, hence why it was called the 'Turbo Graphx16". Sega put a big '16bit' label on the Genesis because they were advertising the 16bit CPU in the Genesis and labeling the console as a 'the first true 16bit machine' in comparison to the TG-16. the PCE/ TG16 was really clumped in with the other 16bit machines though back in the day when it came to magazine game coverage.

>>10756175
>NEC retarded?
no. USA is.

Even Sonic was considered to be a lame mascot, you had Bippy Bop's Island Adventure and some guy named Bork on TG. Nobody wanted that third rate knockoff shit.

>>10756175
>Sega Base, Master and SegaScope systems
???????????

>>10757010
>>10757748
Wait, let me guess:
Base = card slot games
Master = normal MS carts
SegaScope = carts that needed the 3D glasses(via card slot)

Did i get it right?

>>10756190
>Bomberman '94
>in 1989
NEC had to wait to launch it because they had literally no gaems.
they fluked out with bikkuriman mania in japan
that wasnt gonna fly in the states, and even waiting as long as they did, the line-up in 89 was incredibly thin

>>10756175
A 10 dollar difference wasn't going to decide the winner. The pack-in was awful. I was in the market for a console at the time, knew nothing about either company, and when I saw the TV at Toys R Us playing demo footage of both games, I went with the Genesis. Altered Beast looked next-gen and Keith Courage looked like shit.

>>10757765
They were the names of the box sets, like how NES had the "Deluxe Set" and "Action Set."
There was the Base system, which just came with controllers, the Master system, which was that + the gun, and the Sega Scope 3D set which was the console & controlers + gun + 3D glasses.
There wasn't a clear name for the console itself (I think some games/manuals said "Sega System"?) so I guess that's why that ad text is being overly clear that any games associated with any of those box sets will run.
Later Sega retconned it to "Master System" being the name of the console.

>>10758141
dodged a bullet on it ending up being called the "Sega Power Base Console"

>>10758141
Interesting. I bought a boxed "Base system" version(according to the box), but it had the 3D glasses included in its own section of the styrofoam, but no accompanied game cart utilizing it.

>>10756175
NEC could have packaged the Turbografx-16 with:
>R-Type
>Dungeon Explorer
>Alien Crush
>The Legendary Axe
Instead, they picked Keith Courage in Fucking Alpha Zones. So yes, I'd say NEC was pretty retarded.

>>10757748
>>10758141
>inb4 the Sega system autist shows back up

The TG16 was in no man's land in North America because it came way too late. The PC-Engine worked in Japan because it beat the Mega Drive to market and the Famicom had been out since 1983. People were ready for next gen and PC-Engine was the first system that made relatively faithful arcade ports possible. In the west the NES was younger and the Genesis filled the arcade-at-home niche. The TG16 had no runway.

>>10756175
>"R"
what did they mean by this

>>10758325
Toys B Me

>>10758327
Toys D. Luffy

>>10756175
Was the PC Engine CD that expensive in Japan too?

>>10758476
We're comparing the base prices here.

>>10758476
https://s.famitsu.com/news/202012/04210578.html
This says that the player plus interface unit setup cost a little under 60000 yen in 1988, which would be like 470 USD at that time.

>>10756175
I remember seeing a Sega Genesis model 1 demo’ing Altered Beast in the late ‘80s but I never saw any TGFX-16 games or anything hardware wise in any store.

Regardless, I REALLY FUKN LOVE TGFX-16 & Sega Genesis and still play them today because they’re still just fun! This includes the CD games. You

>>10758524
They didn't mind throwing around some money in Japan. No 400 dollar add-on was ever going to succeed in the west.

>>10758552

It was the 80s, every jap had yen blasting out their asscrack. Perfect time for a premature piece of frivolous tech to come out and sell big numbers anyway

>>10756175
>>10756470
>>10756487
>>10758318
basically it all comes down to them wasting a ton of time and money redesigning the PC-Engine into the TurboGrafx, resulting in it coming out two weeks after the Genesis, whereas if they had left the console itself(aside from rebadging it for the new name) identical to the original Japanese version then they probably could have gotten it out in 1988 and have about a year or so on the market as the top tier home console and built themselves up a niche and the system would probably have had a longer lifespan

>>10756342
Yeah but wasn't the CPU 8-bit? I remember reading somewhere the GPU can only send 8 bytes at a time

>>10758751
Yes it's a 6502 with memory banking modifications for wider addressing. Just like the SNES. Both systems have 8-bit 6502 variants. If the PC-E isn't 4th gen then neither is the SNES.

>>10757653
>Nobody was arguing about "3rd gen, 4th gen" back then
Surely the seething fanbois that hadn't been born yet distinctly recall much earlier arguments on the subject between their uncles who worked at Nintendo.

>>10758660
It was some late-80s tier retardation as well. "Hurr, iz too smol and white, Mericuns only like BIG BLACK CONSOLES".
NEC should've pushed back against redesigning its shell (though admittedly they probably should've changed the color to black).

>>10759147
a black pc-engine variant with the matching black disc drive would be tight.
the tg16 by itself isn't that bad, but it resulted in the american interface needing to have a retarded design.

>>10759147
>burgers are obsessed with bbc
fact

>>10759143
>Surely the seething fanbois that hadn't been born yet distinctly recall much earlier arguments on the subject between their uncles who worked at Nintendo.

I was 10 when the Super Nintendo came out. Nobody was calling that 'third generation' back then. To most people, it was 'the second gen', and the 2600 was the first. But there wasn't any real classification. When the Genesis came out it was marketed as 'the leader of the 16bit generation' or whatever. Or 'the first true 16bit home console' when it was advertised up against the TG-16. In retrospect; that was challenged by Atari and other companies. The Jaguar was '64bit' because of some components in the machine. When the 3DO came out it was advertised as the first true 32bit CD system (in the western market). Atari would advertise that the 3DO is 32bit and their system is 64bit.

>>10758660
>>10759147
They didn't have a choice. At the time the FCC was paranoid about RF interference so every American console had to be encased in a metal sarcophagus. The PC-Engine was too small to accommodate this so they had to make it bigger.

>>10759460
What was it with the FCC and their wacky late-80s RF shielding requirements?

>>10759379
This.
It was all about the "bits" of a system. It's why we had names like Turbografx-16, and N64.
You had "AMAZING 16-bit action!!!" on the games boxes.

>>10756470
Yeah, for all the post-mortem analysis of the TG16 I don't feel like NEC really screwed the pooch all that much. They could have done some things differently but mostly they just failed to gain traction against two established competitors who both hit it out of the park that particular console cycle.

Nintendo was so dominant in the previous cycle that they became essentially synonymous with video games. The SNES was a sure thing. And Sega at least had some recognition thanks to the master system and all their arcade titles. NEC was relatively unknown in the console market. So when all 3 made really good consoles the pecking order just never changed. It started Nintendo > Sega > NEC and stayed that way.

What they really needed was for one of the other consoles to underwhelm and unfortunately for them both were fucking amazing so there was never any real niche for them to fill. It's not like the Jag or 3D0 where people were bitterly disappointed with the final product. People actually liked the TG16. They just didn't get around to trying it in large enough numbers because they were already invested in the other consoles. It was like one of those super crowded movie weekends where some well-reviewed pic everyone agrees was good just gets swallowed up by a couple other blockbusters. In this case the bronze medal isn't some kind of failure, it's just indicative of the level of competition. We were really spoiled for choice back then

>>10760049
>This.
>It was all about the "bits" of a system. It's why we had names like Turbografx-16, and N64.
>You had "AMAZING 16-bit action!!!" on the games boxes.

Back then, when people didn't know anything, because they couldn't look it up with a single swipe of their phone... The Atari 2600/ VCS was generally refereed to as a '4-bit' system, because of how inferior it was to the NES. But it was a far more primitive 8bit system.

>>10758558
Also the late 80s was when Japan's birthrate slump really hit its stride so you had a bunch of adults with money and no kids to waste it on bumping up demand for shit like the CD addon.

>>10758763
The 65C816 is no more a '6502' than a Pentium is an 8086 - they both have compatibility modes for older ISAs, but they're their own architecture.

The TG16 uses a slightly modified 65c02. Other than a few modified instructions, it is functionally an 8-bit CPU.

>>10759480
No idea. I guess they were paranoid about a bunch of consumer electronics collectively interfering with radio and television transmissions. Like your neighbor would try to tune into the evening news and instead get you playing Super Mario Bros. since technically the systems were generating the same signals and in theory something like that could happen if one overpowered the other. As the 90s went on they realized their fears were unwarranted so they loosened up.

>>10759143
Yes they were. In fact, Wikipedia is wrong about when the third gen started but the editors over there have a chip on their shoulder and refuse to change it.

>>10760316
Sorry meant to quote >>10759379

>>10759480
The high-frequency data lines didn't make use of differential signaling to neutralize EMI. I dunno how much of a problem it was in practice but the reason we don't have to do it today is because we design modern electronics to cancel out their own emissions with differential signaling.

In theory, any high-frequency emission of more than like 5 watts is a breach of the rules and the cost of a recall if the FCC dinged you would probably be more expensive than just slapping on excessive shielding.

>>10756175
I like that the power base converter works woth games for the Sega master system, the Sega base system and the Sega segascope system.

>>10756175
>400 bucks for the CD add-on
No wonder it got so memoryholed that Johnny Turbo had to seethe over the Sega CD being more successful.

>>10756181
Ok Genesissy.

>>10756175
>10 bucks

Whoppdee

>>10756175
keith courage fucking sucked

>>10760752
It was cool if you only ever played NES games before it. The last boss fight was bullshit though.

>>10760316
You can't really be wrong about an imaginary made up thing. It'd be like arguing over which system had better blast processing. Another thing that fanbois try to retcon as being a real thing.

>>10760846
It's "made up" to the extent that all categorizing is "made up." But if an information catalog is going to report those categories it should at least match up with how those categories were carved out. Wikipedia just pulled it's 2nd gen/3rd gen division right out of it's ass. It's not even consistent with itself. It calls Colecovision 2nd gen and the SG-1000 3rd gen when they're effectively the same machine.

>>10760316
>Yes they were. In fact, Wikipedia is wrong about when the third gen started but the editors over there have a chip on their shoulder and refuse to change it.

As weird as it sounds, it does make more sense going that far back with the 2600/ Intellivision ColecoVision era of consoles. After that console era crashed and the NES took over the industry, there wasn't really any 'console generation' spiel in the marketing. But then again, Nintendo had a monopoly in the west for a while, and they were willing to ride the 8-bit NES as long as they could. But I think pressure from Sega and even NEC made NOA get the SNES hardware out sooner than they wanted it to be. It seemed like when a next generation console came out, it was just marketed as "next generation" with no real numbering, or 16bit... 32bit/64bit. But it seems like by the time the DC and PS2 came out, marketing in 'bits' was out of style and harder to do. Given that the CPU's from that gen were 32bit and 64bit. For me, the first time I ever saw the 'console generation' classification was reading wikipedia. I feel like that is where it became popularized.

>>10756175
>$600

Holy shit. CD players were just unfathomly rich gucci shit back then. It wasn't until 1997 until I got a CD player, and it was like $120.

>>10760940
It required higher precision manufacturing tools than floppy drives. However it's more reliable.

>>10760891
Wikipedia is famously full of ass pulled bullshit. No mentally stable grownup cares what it says or takes anyone who cites it seriously.

>>10761079
The problem is everyone does regardless. So Wikipedia being wrong about something gets repeated and reinforced and it becomes even harder to get things corrected because then Wikipedia editors dig their heels in on the grounds that everyone else agrees, effectively becoming it's own source. I don't know enough about how to get things fixed there when the editors treat the pages like their own personal kingdoms and refuse to listen to reason. Appealing to a higher authority is either impossible or not clearly defined. Any attempt to make corrections are reverted in 30 seconds and trying to argue the point falls on deaf ears. I can't find any information on what to do in that situation.

>>10761094
>The problem is everyone does regardless.
No. Only tards and underage do.
>I can't find any information on what to do in that situation.
Probably because no sane intelligent person places themselves in that situation. When a fucktard cites wikipedia the only correct response is to mock them mercilessly. Only a fool would engage seriously with a fool.

>>10758141
>tfw the sega system meme was actually real

>>10756175
>compact disc player
They really had no fucking idea how to market the Super CD-ROM^2

>>10761530
If you want to have a real conversation then have one. The posturing isn't addressing the problem. If you think just mocking people who cite Wikipedia is accomplishing anything you're just pissing into the wind. The goal needs to be to fix the errors because you're not going to stop Wikipedia from being most people's reference. It's too entrenched.

>>10761678
Looking back it seems like they weren't really trying. It comes off more like "hey, this video game thing seems to have traction so let's put something out and see what happens." Even in Japan things got weird pretty fast. The PC-Engine and CD were successful but after that they just rode that wave and released a dozen different variants of the same machine and then when it came time to actually do something new, like with the Supergrafx or PC-FX, they totally shit the bed. The whole operation seems more like a side hustle.

>>10761696
It's not possible to have a real conversion with someone who takes wikipedia seriously. Fantasizing that you can somehow "fix" it is pissing in the wind, with your mouth open and pretending it's lemonade.

>>10756190
>The Turbografx had the better games
> lists three
cringe.

>>10756342
>GPU
lol

>>10758763
>Just like the SNES
except snes was a 16-bit version of 6502. please recognize that turdbo grafx sucked a lot of cock.

>>10761079
>Wikipedia is famously full of ass pulled bullshit.
problem i find is that retards can't just add whatever schizo shit they like because faggots like me turn up , delete the schizo babble and dunning-kruger level though bubbles and find something based in the land of reality. the schizos get mad, my edits remain.

>>10761094
> . I can't find any information on what to do in that situation.
stop writing schizo shit and get proper sources. not difficult.

>>10761019
They used mass market mechanisms in those, shitty ones too. I can't imagine it was more than $15 of the total cost.

When CD players were brand new an entry level one could be had for $500, back in 1984. A year later there were many around the $200 price point. This was just Sega's price gouging, later on they blew out the SCD for $100.

>>10756524
based truth teller

>>10756175
Turbografx was heavily advertised as the 1st 16-bit console. It got a lot of buzz and attention in the US because of it.
Unfortunately it sucked and Sega won that generation due to Sonic and Sega Sports

>>10763818
>It got a lot of buzz and attention in the US because of it.
For like three weeks. It had no games. Billy Bloop and the Island Caper, Child Incredible or some shit. Nobody cared. It flopped because nogaymes.

>>10756190
Ys sucked, the whole "bump into thing to do combat" genre is fully fucking gay and doesn't satisfy the autism of a RPS based system ala Final Fantasy.

>>10763912
Random battles are a waste of time when you can just bump n' grind right on the world map. Ys wins.

>>10761708
d00d, some guys bought the ps1 as their cd playing music box in addition to it playing ps1 games. Sometimes, that sort of logic works as opposed to say the Phillips CD-i and 3DO. I have my pc playing music too through a receiver/amplifier and medium size stereo speakers while it also emulates TGFX-16. It was a bonus to have that during that era.

>>10760940
I may still have my Sony portable cd player from ‘98 somewhere…. It even has that anti-shock technology for when you use it with the tape adapter in a car!

>>10763264
I wish it were that simple. Go check out a few talk pages. Its hardly even worth trying because every one of them is full of people offering exactly the sources you'd want to see and then someone else no selling it. You're making it out to be some rational process where people have a discussion about the evidence. But its far from it. Removing bullshit is easy if it's some random vandalism as it should be. But something legitimately wrong that's been there for a long time? Almost impossible to fix. Nobody wants to hear it. I think part of it is that some things are so deep and would require so many edits to countless pages that it's easier to pretend it's correct than acknowledge a LOT of fixes have to be made across a ton of articles. Maybe you're more reasonable and would be willing to have an actual conversation weighing the evidence, but few people are.

>>10756175
>TG-16 pack in earlier anime game outside JP
Otakubro we home

>>10758331
Sasuke significant powerful move

>>10760940
>holy shit my grandparents were just unfathomably poor back then
That sucks. In 88/89 I had a CDROM2, FM Towns, an LD player with 5 CD carousel, a full size CD walkman, and a D-88.

>>10760925
The "crash" was only a North American thing. Its effect was that the Colecovision and Atari 5200 died early. The Famicom was out in Japan at the same time the crash was happening. It seems quite biased to dictate that a console generation should be decided by a sales collapse localized to America.

>>10760553
Neither add-on was really what you'd call successful. People just didn't want to make frankenconsoles at home by buying stupidly expensive add-ons and awkwardly assembling the pieces. Sega and NEC should have just held their horses and released the CD based consoles as standalone units.

Especially in NEC's case, the add-on element was destined to fail because if the TG16 didn't have a huge install base as it was then there was already a limited market for the add-on. Whereas anybody could buy a Turbo Duo because it didn't require you to already own any hardware. It worked by itself, so they should have just made the leap and not tried to bridge the gap.

>>10760125
>I don't feel like NEC really screwed the pooch all that much.

they did right off the gate. ever notice how every single turbografx game is "published by NEC"?

NEC tried pulling the nintendo royalty thing in america and this immediately pissed devs off. NEC ended up having to self-publish every single 3rd party game in the states, even the hudson games were all published by NEC.

>>10756175
>Was NEC retarded?
PC-Engine was highly succcessful and managed to butt heads with Nintendo and Sega during its active lifecycle. That's the PC-Engine though. The Turbografix-16 failed for one reason: they launched it two weeks AFTER the Sega Genesis came out, and guess which one made a bigger splash with far superior arcade conversions and original titles? TG-16 came out too late and was muscled out of the international scene because of it. PC-Engine still kept going because it was able to build up a nice userbase, but even disregarding the wack ass GEMS music the Sega Genesis was showing off just how much more capable it was for games by comparison.

>>10764114
>Insert the MST3k "Liar Liar" clip

>>10756175
Better games than the segay gayneshit

>>10764223
>The "crash" was only a North American thing. Its effect was that the Colecovision and Atari 5200 died early. The Famicom was out in Japan at the same time the crash was happening. It seems quite biased to dictate that a console generation should be decided by a sales collapse localized to America.

The problem is that Nintendo didn't really care about the console market that existed before the NES. So their marketing wasn't hung up on ' console generations'. From what I understand, Nintendo of America was hoping to keep the NES alive all through the 90's, and wanted to keep the Super Famicom a secret. But Magazines like EGM really promoted the Super Famicom, and I think Sega's Genesis and even the TG-16 caused investors to put additional pressure on NOA to get their 16bit system out on the market in the west.

>no irem games on genesis
still pretty wild. a port of r-type leo was planned at some point but got canned

>>10756349
ok now am no longer mad I opened this thread

>>10765486
Here's a clip for you

Semi-related, how well does the genesis play master system games? Any issues?

>>10767843
Pretty much perfect since the Genesis effectively has a Master System inside of it. There are a couple of games that don't work though because the Master System had a legacy SG-1000 mode that the Genesis doesn't support so any Master System games that rely on that won't work.