/vr/ - Retro Games

You're right. But now they're gonna be mad.

I have never seen any classic fags compare Sonic to looney tunes. Closest thing is Adventures of Sonic cartoon and people only like that for the memes.

I disliked SA2s story when it came out, but considering Sonic has no identity now, I have come around to appreciate how batshit it is. Genuinely excited to see the 3rd movie and watch a little girl get shot in the face.

>>10752969
I agree it had a retarded story, but I don't think some of those elements you mentioned came out of nowhere and didn't fit.
I think the space colony was meant to be a new take on the death egg, which isn't a hard conclusion to come to based on the ridiculous design. Having Eggman build that thing would make SA1 look like a joke and it wouldn't really fit, so they went with a relative of Eggman. It would take away from Eggman to make his grandfather an eviler more capable megalomaniac, and they wanted it to fit in more with the human-centered world. The death egg was made a space colony to justify its existence and an experimental weapons lab to make the levels actually interesting and hostile. The grandfather was also depicted as someone not outright evil like Eggman but instead someone who went crazy with revenge, and it makes sense to link that as a story with the space colony and research lab aspects. The politics go no further than that because they weren't important.
Personally I find the worst characterization to be Eggman himself, who has inconsistent motivations both in comparison to other games and seemingly within SA2's own story as well.

>>10752969
It's not any more retarded than Batman, Spider-Man, or the average anime. It is interesting that you mention the comics though, I don't think it's nearly as bad as some of the Penders issues.

Dark Age as far as I'm concerned was the "Saturn Era" when we got no Sonic games at all, though when most people use this term I realize they are referring to Sonic 2006 primarily and I guess everything up to Black Knight? But that still doesn't include SA2, which came before even the shift to third-party. And interestingly enough both Unleashed and Black Knight are generally praised for their story and not being too silly or too serious. I guess if I had to give one criticism, it's that some of the cutscenes might be a little wonky due to how the translation was handled? But it still seems fine to me.

>>10752979
The films are honestly sick, I can't wait for Sonic 3 as well

>>10752969
SA2 story went full time shonenshit and honestly i'm all up for Sonic's plots being epicly ridiculous (since the gameplay is mostly meh these days).

In Frontiers, Eggman takes away giant ancient robot boss' cannon and shoots Ultra Instinct Super Sonic out of that cannon to obliterate evil world-destroying moon.

This is as crazy as it sounds but at the same time it doubles the amount of insanity SA2 storyline had.

Classicfags can only seethe at that because Genesis couldn't handle all that stuff besides few cutscenes and they went into reclusion with their "no humans in Sawnek!!" "3D is too edge!!!" and now will stay forever in their maginaryworld bubble.

>>10753026
There's literally no politics at all. I don't even know why he said that

>>10753041
I didn’t play Frontiers so I’m somewhat talking out of my ass (inb4 stopped reading there), but what could possibly be a good justification for a giant ancient robot cannon in a world where the main antagonist already regularly builds giant weapons which harness mystical power? Just to set up a plot that sounds like The Fifth Element with Breath of the Wild aesthetics?
The way I see it, retro Sonic games have a focus on Eggman's unstoppable urge to control and remake the world according to his will, and take advantage of anything he can find to make it happen. In the case of SA1 and 2, the design elements were reshaped to fit their new idea of the world Sonic lives in, but the story direction is very much in the same spirit and I think it should get a little credit for that.
Introducing a brand new evil force, a totally new origin of mysterious dangerous technology used by evil, and a new system of magic which changes the fate of the world, in a universe where there are already existing sources for those story elements, seems significantly less creative than what SA2 did. The non-retro trash Sonic games frequently did this. Adding elements that don’t do anything mechanically that the existing ones couldn’t do just to make the surface level setting seem like a slightly different genre makes stories seem more like separate franchises with the characters hacked in than actual interesting deranged takes on the existing franchise.

>>10753041
As a classicfag who has accepted the Adventure games, i think other classicfags dont have an issue with plot. These are the OGs that went balls deep into the animated series, the Archie comics and the OVA. I think the division is the fact Sega has done fuck all to establish a coherent world for the games. It's pretty fucked when Mario's world is more understood. So you had classicfags who at best, only knew of the Sonic world through the non game media which itself was only loosely interpreted from what little world Sega provided in the games to build off, so you have the Mobius Sonic world that is some kinda post apocalypse setting or something with anthros, something the ova also did their own take on and Sonic CD opening also showing something like a vast wasteland. Then suddenly Adventure comes out and it pretty much right there tried to create a real world for Sonic finally, but its completely different then the majority of all the other media depicted. So I get the alienation of the old fans.

If anything, Adventure era is the first reboot of the ip, trying to actually create an established setting that other media like Sonic X adapted from, but then after 06, Sega seems to have ditched most of that Adventure era world again and just keeps flinging shit at the wall. I find it funny that Forces kinda went back to the old western depiction of a world filled with anthros. The whole series is a fucking mess because Sega either doesn't care or is trying to appeal to every demographic. SA1 to 06 is pretty much the only true time they tried.

>>10753136
Frontiers basically tried to re-invent Eggman himself. Most of the game's time, he's trapped in cyber dimension and his AI daughter (yes, he have that now) tries to find the right solution for the situation. Eggman rethinks its own goals as the game progresses and learns to appreciate those which he have around him. It's sort of the character development we haven't seen since Adventure games, he was mostly a zany cartoon maniac the entire time.

The main bad guy is stupid, it's some kind of malevolent force that is hellbent on destroying civilizations which manifests itself as a moon for some reason (it is said that its true form is incomprehensible and everyone just sees it as closest analogy their mind can create)

Giant ancient robot cannon is just a le epic cool things because Sonic is all about doing cool things. He fights giant robot in space, then he fights giant lizard in space, then he fights ancient robots, takes their weapons and puts it into their asses to blow them up (that's literally what he does in Frontiers). You're not supposed to think too much about that.

>>10752969
>is that really the kind of storytelling you think belongs in the games?
Yep, kids love that shit

>>10753041
>Maginaryworld
Fucking kek anon, you get one gold ring from me

>>10752969
It feels like a Shonen anime... I think that fits this era of Sonic quite well, and I wouldn't mind for it to be the style of some future titles too... Sonic's always had a bit of an edge and that's fine really.

Sonic Adventure 2's ending in particular, the OST during the credits, with the characters just going on about a few things, talking, heroes and villains just sitting back and reflecting a bit, it's so nice... I personally love the conversation with Eggman and Tails, Eggman's just so real here, having the kind of thoughts we wouldn't expect from him, but Tails' just a dumb kid, and Eggman gets that.

>Sonic MUST be Looney Tunes AND Evangelion.
ftfy troon

>[thing] is....LE SHONEN ANIME
Holy fuck how many terms do retards need to misuse and dilute the meaning of?

>>10752969
>The first Adventure game was a great example with Chaos and the echidna tribe,

I remember nothing of that, I thought the story was just
>Robotnik got a new henchman who eats Chaos Emeralds which makes him grow
>the furry zoo tries stopping him but he keeps eating another emerald every time
>eventually he grows Godzilla sized so Sonic has to go Super Saiyan to fight him
and the echidna thing was just like two cutscenes in Knuckles's story, whose gameplay was a boring treasure hunt unrelated to everything else?
man Sonic Adventure sucked so much.

>>10754297
That's just One Piece.

>>10754730
At what point One Piece becomes a psychological drama about broken people?

The way the stories in the SA games are conveyed is just so amateur and fucked up.
The cutscenes are animated like shit, the voice acting is worse, and the plot just leaps around in order to facilitate whatever level they want you to play next.
>whoop, guess we're going the the casino now!
>whoop, guess we're in a pyramid now

It takes some hardcore level of autism to seriously engage with this stuff on the storytelling level, as opposed to just a quaint collection of memes.

>>10754754
It's more the (((World Governments)) doing some wacky black magic voodoo that involves angels/demons.

>>10754767
>the plot just leaps around in order to facilitate whatever level they want you to play next.

That's basically any platformer.

>>10754754
Oh, and every single crew member is a broken person with a sob story, that's one of the main calling cards of the series.

>>10754771
Yes, but most of them aren't trying to have the plot of a sci-fi epic. Most of them have overtly goofy storytelling, to accentuate the overt goofiness of the genre.

>>10754619
Sonic and Mega Man are the two vidya that basically are like playing a shounen anime. It helps that they both also have literal shounen anime shows.

>>10754754
Arlong Park

>>10753863
Kids should get good games. Not autism.

>>10753038
>its not any more retarded than Batman, Spider-Man, or the average anime.
That's whataboutism. Sonic is a fundamentally unserious character that is not fit for the type of storytelling you see in batman or Spiderman or other superheros.

>>10755692
They did get a good game with SA2B

>>10752969
Thank god Im not a Sonic or sega fag to rot my brain with such tiny things. Lmao

Sonic Adventure 2 is based and OP is a fag.

>>10755692
SA2 is a good game. Fortnite is gay nigger shit.

>>10755709
So Batman can be both dark and comedic but Sonic can't.
Spiderman can crack childish jokes while getting more shit injected into his life but Sonic can't
A fucking Mickey Mouse can get involved into a fight between light and darkness and figure out the ying yang concept for himself but Sonic still can't, for some reason.

Talk about forced stereotypes.

yeah it did feel like its own thing, 1 felt more sonic-like then 2, sa2 feels more like a spin off of some sorts especially since the main character role is shared

>>10756189
You're still arguing whataboutism. You're not talking about Sonic, you're talking about other series. Talk about Sonic. Sonic doesn't work with dark storytelling because he's a fundamentally unserious character. Batman can work as both a dark and lighthearted story. Sonic cannot.

>>10756365
> Sonic cannot.

And you still don't have a real argument why.

> he's a fundamentally unserious character

He's a "carefree" character. Bugs Bunny is fundamentally unserious, we should never see him cry or broken for real because that would ruin the entire idea.
Sonic can get serious when situation becomes serious. You're mixing up concepts while trying to believe in your own vision of character.

>>10756013
>>10756071
Based and true

I think SA series is garbage but at least SA2 didn't have a hub and a bunch of human NPCs

It was indeed, completely off its meds batshit insane, but I appreciated it at the time as a twelve year old. Considering it was made to appeal to children it succeeded I. Its goal.

FINALLY, Sonic Adventure is a good game
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET0fLFbVUZY

>>10755709
Honestly, the biggest problem with trying to make Sonic work in a "serious" storyline, are all of the corporate mandated parameters of what you can do with the character.
He basically can't be sad, can't suffer a crisis of faith, and can't ever be depicted as not being cool and on top of things.
That just doesn't work as a thing. It's like trying to make Lord of the Rings, but your main character is Bugs Bunny. Where's the emotional weight?

>>10752969
From Adventures to Dark Knight Sonic was a typical shounen hero, a young man who made mistakes, liked to be cool and learned to be a better person (or hedgehog) little by little.
And honestly a "evil doctor tries to get revenge on humanity for killing their important one" is pretty much a shounen plot if you change doctor for anything else, so i don't see how this IS NOT a Sonic story just because 3D Sonic tries to do something different than 2D Sonic.
You could argue Colors is out of place or Forces was a mistake in the way the executed it mostly with the OC donut steel, but SA2 is pretty much Sonic in his essence.

>>10756576
Robotnik careers back and forth from "serious villain with a chip on his shoulder about humanity" to "goofy idiot who builds casinos and theme parks" though, and often in the same game. It's tonally weird.

>>10756576
>who made mistakes, liked to be cool and learned to be a better person (or hedgehog) little by little.
Also, that never happened. Sonic has never been shown to have a serious character flaw, at least in Japanese media.
There's not even a "man, I'm too reckless" moment. Sonic is always on top of things. It's kind of ridiculous when you actually look at it.
He could have been the one who jeopardised the plan with the fake emerald by acting rashly, and that would have been a good moment, but I feel like Sega would forbid something like that.

The core character journey of the game is Shadow's, and Shadow just learns to stop being an asshole, and be more like Sonic. Sonic doesn't go anywhere. He's already perfect.

>>10756608
>There's not even a "man, I'm too reckless" moment

That happened a lot actually.

Some traps in early Sonic games set to catch Sonic at full speed. Like random spikes out of walls or springs bouncing him back (into spikes on the wall). Canonically, it's all set up by Robotnik.
Metal Sonic was created that way too. Robotnik knew he can exploit Sonic's lack of patience and lured him into one of his devices which read the data off him and copied into a robot.

In Lost World, he sees Eggman holding a conch controlling a bunch of powerful aliens (which are clearly unhappy serving under Eggman) and blows it away without a thought (because Eggman's stuff = le bad), thus freeing bad dudes and starting the main plot arc.

Of course it never leads to fatal outcome to everyone, like, he still has a chance to fix even the worst of his mistakes later. But he is reckless and sometimes that backfires significantly.

>>10756381
Sonic and Bubsy are both out of touch ancient marketing campaigns made to sell consoles, video games, and toys. They are fundamentally incompatible with deep, rich storytelling because of their place as a tool for the game industry and business.
Precisely, which is why Sonic can't create good, compelling stories. He is the wrong tool for that job. Sonic is fundamentally unserious. He's a cartoony hedgehog character, not something that can be used for a serious.

You can't make a serious franchise with this as your protagonist. Even if you make a competent story.

I'll be first to admit Sonic has some good stories. Black Knight, ridiculous as it looks, has a good start, middle, end and even a good twist at he end.

The story fucking sucks because it stars Sonic. There is no way to make even a competent story look good when THIS is your protagonist and HE is the star of the show.
Literally every game you idiots insisted Sega make dark and edgy has been shit. The best sonic game made in the last 20 years has been a 2D sidescroller made by an australian who didn't care about making a story for Sonic. It barely has one at all. But it's still fifteen times the game Forces is.

YOU people keep Sonic shit. You're the one who keeps screaming to the world as loudly as possible "I can make this edgy hedgehog game good". Yet, you never do. Sonic team can't do it. Your Sonic 06 "backstory" even if it was any good, is underminded by the fact it stars Shadow and Shadow is a ridiculous parody of 00's and 90's edge.
The 90's was the PEAK of "Let's take funny mascot character and make them edgy and cool".

Sonic is not edgy nor was he ever cool. You just think of him as being the canvas of some brilliant extended universe because you grew up with him.
We think of this shit as cringe for the same reason we can't take THESE guys and make a competent story out of them: they're fucking ridiculous. Just like Sonic.

>>10756381
Sonic and Bubsy are both out of touch ancient marketing campaigns made to sell consoles, video games, and toys. They are fundamentally incompatible with deep, rich storytelling because of their place as a tool for the game industry and business.
Precisely, which is why Sonic can't create good, compelling stories. He is the wrong tool for that job. Sonic is fundamentally unserious. He's a cartoony hedgehog character, not something that can be used for a serious.

You can't make a serious franchise with this as your protagonist. Even if you make a competent story.

I'll be first to admit Sonic has some good stories. Black Knight, ridiculous as it looks, has a good start, middle, end and even a good twist at he end.

The story fucking sucks because it stars Sonic. There is no way to make even a competent story look good when THIS is your protagonist and HE is the star of the show.
Literally every game you idiots insisted Sega make dark and edgy has been shit. The best sonic game made in the last 20 years has been a 2D sidescroller made by an australian who didn't care about making a story for Sonic. It barely has one at all. But it's still fifteen times the game Forces is.

YOU people keep Sonic shit. You're the one who keeps screaming to the world as loudly as possible "I can make this edgy hedgehog game good". Yet, you never do. Sonic team can't do it. Your Sonic 06 "backstory" even if it was any good, is underminded by the fact it stars Shadow and Shadow is a ridiculous parody of 00's and 90's edge.
The 90's was the PEAK of "Let's take funny mascot character and make them edgy and cool".

Sonic is not edgy nor was he ever cool. You just think of him as being the canvas of some brilliant extended universe because you grew up with him.

We think of this shit as cringe for the same reason we can't take THESE guys and make a competent story out of them: they're fucking ridiculous. Just like Sonic.

>>10756447
> but at least SA2 didn't have a hub and a bunch of human NPCs
Anon, you're supposed to be explaining why SA2 is better.

>>10753151
>The main bad guy is stupid, it's some kind of malevolent force that is hellbent on destroying civilizations which manifests itself as a moon for some reason (it is said that its true form is incomprehensible and everyone just sees it as closest analogy their mind can create)
And you literally defeat it by playing fucking Ikaruga.

>>10758297
>And you literally defeat it by playing fucking Ikaruga.

Only in base game.
In DLC, there's a whole different fight where you battle that soldier titan controlled by the moon.
And then Sonic goes Super saiyan 3 and shoots himself out of cannon to blow the damn thing up. It's glorious

>>10758260
>We

I hate when people do this.
Stop speaking on others's behalf, retard. That's just your own opinion.

>>10758260
FUCK you. I will have my gritty detective pikachu film.

Sonic Adventure 2's story is pretty retarded, but for me the absurdity is part of the fun.

>>10758260
>You can't make a serious franchise with this as your protagonist
Yeah you can

Honestly, I can't even fathom why people go crazy for this game. The Tails and Eggman stages are really fucking bad. The Knuckles and Rouge stages are really fucking bad. The Sonic and Shadow stages are utterly neutered compared to the previous games. It's infinitely worse than the previous game, which was also incredibly flawed. Shut the hell up about this game. Move on and play something else.

>>10759786
All the gameplay styles are completely fine.

It's just you who's bad at Adventure games.
Deal with it and move on, this series isn't for you.

>>10759786
>The Tails and Eggman stages are really fucking bad.
The stages themselves are fine, it's just that the mechas themselves are clunkier and heavier than Gamma. Even then, the novelty of playing as Eggman makes up for it.
>The Knuckles and Rouge stages are really fucking bad.
Again, the stages themselves are fine, if more gimmicky than before (aside from Mad Space being too damn big), but Sega A. nerfed the emerald radar to only show you one at a time, B. made the emerald pieces and whatever else smaller and for the Dreamcast version C. Gave you no indicator when you needed to dig for an emerald piece meaning that spots in certain stages like Egg Quarters can take forever since you don't know where to dig.

Sonic crossed the line in S&K when suddenly you had supernatural and mythical elements for no apparent reason. Those damn ghosts in Sandopolis are the first non-robotic enemies in the series. And while Sonic Adventure still had those sonic-y designs and actually felt like the part of the series, Sonic Adventure 2 had absolutely character-less robot designs. Not to mention Sonic in 3D plain sucks.

>He plays a platforming game for the story
LOL
Won’t deny the cutscenes are jank, with the mocap animation and especially with the English voice direction at times. But that’s why I love it, enough to watch them through every time. Legitimately funny at times

>>10759914
Sure, it's fun, and it's charmingly quaint. It's people who think these games have actual good storytelling who confuse me. Where are they seeing that? In their imaginations when they were ten years old, presumably.

>>10759786
It's "a vibe", by which I mean the visual style and the soundtrack are really good.
But yeah, the actual game is pretty bad though. The fun part is the Sonic and Shadow stages, and they're just barely well designed enough for what they are in the first place.
So much of the game is a cop-out. It locks you on rails, and automates everything, because they couldn't design a good enough control scheme for delicate platforming while maintaining a fast pace. Time has shown that what you actually need for that is dual analogue or a mouse. Gyro control, if you can get it.

SA2 has an enjoyable story. The only people who hate it take it too seriously.

When has Sonic ever had good writing?

>>10752969
You're a fucking zoomer faggot. SA2 is the perfect example cringe-kino edgy teen millennial storytelling. The game is fucking legendary.

>>10752969
But I like it BECAUSE it's non-sensical and edgy and takes itself too seriously, it's funny, it's fun!
It's kinda why typing of the dead is amazing, because the gameplay is fun AND I get to hear this too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5Qo6Y1cyhI

>>10754767
Casinos having valuables like emeralds in them makes sense, and the pyramid was Eggman's secret base with a rocket that was their best shot at getting to the Ark.

>>10761034
>pyramid was Eggman's secret base
Okay he's a crazy guy who wanted a giant pyramid base surrounded by quicksand of doom and bottomless pits, not exactly a step up in storytelling from the 2D games where he built casinos the size of cities
>with a rocket that was their best shot at getting to the Ark.
No they just wanted to show a rocket being launched from a pyramid because it looked cool.
Eggman had a teleporter in that same base, which was also used by Rouge. Launching an entire manned rocket would have been a lot more difficult and the teleporter made it obsolete.
Maybe Eggman was meant to use rockets for transport as well originally, but it would make a lot of the rest of the story not work since they wanted the dark characters to pop back and forth to make appearances.

>>10760848
And yet we have just been through years of people complaining that Sonic "doesn't take itself seriously anymore, like SA2".

>>10760876
When it has no writing.

>>10754767
Anon... You're not supposed to take it THAT seriously

>>10761238
So why do we keep having this argument about how Sonic is better when it's storytelling is dark and serious?

>>10761235
By take it too seriously I mean homing in on the flaws of the writing instead of looking at the big picture.

>>10761247
Taking something too seriously, is when I point out flaws in a thing you like?
I like it too. That's not the point.

I like it because it's stupid. Some people genuinely think these games have really really good storytelling.

>>10761259
>I like it too. That's not the point.
You're not getting what I'm saying then because I'm talking about the people who let stuff like that ruin it for them.

>>10761259
>Some people genuinely think these games have really really good storytelling.
They do.

>>10761259
its good in japanese. sonic is just one of those franchises that mainly have a fanbase of tendies who hate anything japanese unless it feels american and ironic weebs whose only experience with anime is the persona 5 english dub.

>>10752969
As someone who dislikes SA2 on multiple levels, and thinks a good Sonic story involves as little actual writing as possible, I'm willing to say that I think part of the reasons the stories don't work are in part from a lack of production values. Sure a better writer would also help but Sonic game budgets are so restricted, or poorly spent, that even if one of these games had a stellar story, everything else about its delivery is laughable.

>>10752969
SA2 is still the highest selling mainline game in Japan. Japan never cared about Sonic, except for the Adventure games.

>>10761562
No one wants to learn Japanese to play a Sonic game.

>>10761473
They absolutely don't. The story of Sonic Adventure is Sonic sees a "big drip", and then Eggman feeds the big drip rocks, and he gets bigger.
All of the potentially interesting lore about Chaos being a elder god who Eggman awakened, barely in the game. You are not shown those scenes at all.
What is Eggman even trying to achieve? Destroy the world, but not too much?

There's the barebones framework of some kind of plot there, and it expects you to fill the gaps with your imagination.

>>10758260
Sonic always had dark themes since SATAM, and it's respected among the majority.
Everything can be good if done right, which Sonic did it just that until 2006. You don't like it does not make it as fact.

>>10759862
>Sonic has less robots means sucks
kek

>>10759862
>suddenly you had supernatural and mythical elements for no apparent reason
Yeah nothing supernatural about the chaos emeralds or time stones, lmao

>>10763392
plenty of the sonic games have cutscene retranslation mods. and SA2 literally has a full retranslation that translates all the hints and adds subtitles for stuff that previously didnt have it.

>>10756589
thats because robotnik is a goofy serious villain idiot with a chip on his shoulder about humanity who builds casinos and theme parks.

>>10756589
Eggman is a horrible, evil fucker. People only have this interpretation of Eggman of being a goofy, wacky villain because the games generally gloss over just how diabolical the Doctor is, and he loves hamming it up to a comical degree. Casino Night is just one of a number of things he built on Westside Island, the others being fucking Chemical Plant, Oil Ocean, and Metropolis.

>>10764130
is he still THAT evil in the newer sonic titles? since he doesnt enslave animals anymore and just builds machines, i think hes moderatly diabolical

>>10764130
is it ever stated the civilization centers are actually built by eggman tho, how the fuck would he populate a whole ass city in that short amount of time?

>>10764156
Yes. Actually, Colors stepped it up a bit with him exploiting the Wisps so hard that many of them were irreversibly turned into Nega-Wisps, in Lost World he went back to capturing animals, Forces had him fuck the world up pretty bad in a short time with Infinite's help (and he apparently double crosses him as soon as it's convenient).

>>10764161
That's fair, but then, that's even worse. Then it's Eggman building facilities that seem to exist solely to pollute all around populated areas.

>>10764190
do you think eggman would actually kill sonic for good if he had the chance (like in sa2 for example) and be happy with it, or is there at least some light in his heart and he'd secretly shed a tear the evening hes going to bed?

>>10764198
Yes. Sonic is Eggman's most worthy adversary, but I think as long as it's properly by his hand or through his machines, he'd be happy to be rid of him. As long as he proves his superiority to Sonic in the end.
But he probably would feel rather bummed out, having nobody to really test his mettle/metal against. He respects Sonic - he just also hates him.

>>10764053
Am I supposed to feel like Eggman is genuinely imposing as a villain, when he seems to build machines that are designed to be beaten?
He has no intention of actually winning, or doing anything other than goofy bullshit like building giant pinball machines, so how am I supposed to feel when he's pointing a giant laser at earth?
Why is he even doing that? I thought he wanted to build his own city. Why is he now posturing to destroy the planet?

>>10765010
We’ve seen what it looks like for Eggman to win, and it’s not good for anybody.
The point of the Eclipse Cannon was to cow the entire world into submission - the planet destroying aspect of it wasn’t necessary, Eggman was just going to blow up individual cities until the rest bowed down I imagine.

>>10764213
in sonic 06 he mourned him though.

>>10766037
Yeah, as he does in SA2 for that matter. He respects Sonic for being able to consistently stop him. After all, he's the greatest scientific genius in the world, so anybody who is constantly a pain in the ass anyways must be pretty good.