/vr/ - Retro Games

because mm is a mature game for mature gamers, I'm sorry if the story was too deep for you

I despise MM but that has to be the worst argument I've seen against it.

Filtered by an NPC. Goddamnit stop talking, now MM lovers will pretend MM haters are all as dumb as you.

>>10698895
I mean this, but unironic. It genuinely is just a more fleshed out world and is thought provoking by child standards. The quests just hit harder.
>>10698891
Idk if people think MM is better objectively, I only ever see people say they prefer it but Ocarina is still better.

>>10698891
The game was rushed, if you couldn't tell by every asset being recycled from Ocarina.
>>10698897
What's dumb about it? If you look it up you'll see tons of other people got stumped as well because the method that OP and several other people tried is how you hand items over to every other NPC in Ocarina and indeed Majora.

you were majora all along

MM has immense flaws compared to OoT in all kinds of ways. People rightly praise the NPC schedules for being creative, but even then there's so much wrong with the execution of everything, and OoT is subtly clever in heaps of ways where MM falters, so I can't even honestly agree with the idea that MM just has 'better quests', since MM's are so often tedious, while OoT has optional dungeons, world spanning collection quests, fantastic trades sequences, clever mysteries etc. that MM doesn't really have proper equivalents to.

Like, just with the example of item giving like in the OP scenario, MM is trying to do something to make giving NPCs items "work better", by showing a prompt when you are in dialogue with them that lets you bring up the pause menu, as opposed to letting you press C while near them, but this causes ways more issues than it solves. Like, it means that you're now limited to only being able to give items to characters who you know are giving you a prompt, which massively restricts the possibilities otherwise provided by trade sequences, even if it does a couple of clever things with this. A lot of the game is 'deceptively restrictive' like this. Like, the original Bomber's Notebook basically immediately tells you when interacting with any of the major NPCs will actually be meaningful, so you can be absolutely sure that they will never have 'hidden rewards' for you except for random dialogue, while in OoT you couldn't so easily rule out that an NPC didn't have a significant hidden interaction to discover, despite that MM's systems should in principle allow it to be more expressive.

>>10698891
>go to deku palace
>monkey says i need a magic bean
>oh, i remember that deku bloke who sells magic beans by the boat rentals
>go to him
>i have the money he as a merchant wants from me
>"oh I can't sell it to you because you don't know how to use them"
Huh? Link used magic beans in the previous game... But more importantly, why does the seller give a FUCK what I do with them as long as I'm a paying customer? In this game merchants sell dangerous explosives to children, but FUCKING BEANS are where the red tape comes in. Couldn't I at least buy these now and only use them once I "learn" how to use them, so I don't have to go back and chase this cunt? Why is this game so fucking quirky? FFS, after this I just hit the nearby save owl and shut the game off; I don't wanna play this anymore. The internet was right, Majora isn't fun to play and is only appreciated for its aesthetics. Biggest waste of my time and that's coming from someone who played FF8.

>>10698968
The bean seller is what you find unrealistic in this game? Always amusing to see people get triggered on the small stuff.
You do know that the mass and velocity of the moon are too low to cause a world ending event in MM right? Only clock town will get crushed and everyone outside of clock town will be perfectly fine.
But no, it's the bean seller who refuses to sell you beans initially that triggers you for not making sense.

>>10698983
LINK USED MAGIC BEANS IN OOT

>>10698927
>anon claims he is going to explain why something is worse than another
>he just describes both of them

>>10698989
>LiNk UsEd MaGiC bEaNs In oOt
...

>>10699018
That means he knows how to use them. Fucking Christ I want to genocide the entire Deku race, I'm going to spend the next week coming up with racial slurs for them

>>10699023
Link also collected a shitton of items in OOT that somehow got lost again in MM. Skull kid only took the ocarina, not the slingshot, bombs, magic skills learned so far, whatever the fuck.
It's videogame logic, deal with it.

>>10699029
>somehow got lost again in MM
Zelda reset the timeline at the end of Ocarina, remember?

>>10698983
Suspension of disbelief doesn't mean Middle Earth should have Honda Civics

>>10699043
She just teleported you back to the past again where they could stop Gannon before hell broke loose? I assume he kept all his stuff.

This is OP lol

>>10698903
Unironic isn't a word, you mean "earnestly"

>>10698983
The asteroid that killed the dinosaurs was only 6 miles wide.

>>10699312
That's almost as wide as your mom.

>>10698968
>>10699023
BOHNEN MACHT FREI, MOTHERFUCKER!
I'll give Majora another shot tomorrow but fuck I am Elf Hitler now. Fuck Dekus

>>10699707
This is the most unhinged thing I have seen on this board, ever. OP got filtered and this is proof.

>>10699312
The moon in MM is tiny compared to that, also consider velocity. The one that got the dinosaurs was traveling a lot faster than MM's snail pace moon

>>10698968
>>10698983
>>10699707
i love MM but I agree with you, the bean seller always pissed me off and I still to this day sometimes trip up on this sequence and try to buy beans from the Deku scrub when I replay it. just seems silly that they introduce you to this character and then he can't sell them to you, punishing you for remembering. Also, the camera positioning when you first drop into the bean eater's grotto makes it easy to miss that there is a hallway immediately to the left.
deku scrub should at least say something like, "i cant sell these to you if you don't have a Bean Sack to carry them in," or whatever. and then bean eater gives you the sack. They literally already have the concept of bomb bag required for collecting bombs, not sure why they missed this one other than cleaving too close to the OoT way

>>10698891
Anon posts this story every month. Sorry you were dumb enough to make the same mistake twice.

>>10699312
>Comparing fiction with fiction as if it validates anything.

>>10699707
Gem
TDD

>>10699304
based

I'd rather play MM because I didn't have it as a kid and have already played OoT millions of times. Maybe other MM guys feel that way. OoT is probably better but I have no desire to play it again.

>>10698895
Majora's mask rips off ffviis meteor so hard it's not even funny.

>>10698927
This guy knows

>>10699831
It also rips off an episode of the 70s anime Devilman
>Demon Dremoon is using his powers to bring the Earth closer to the Moon. Devilman frantically searches for Dremoon before it's too late.

>>10699831
>FF7 invented impending doom

>>10699831
Someone get this anon a cigarette and a blindfold

>>10699707
The Deku is immunized against all dangers: One may call him a scoundrel, parasite, swindler, profiteer, it all runs off him like water off a raincoat. But call him a Deku and you will be astonished at how he recoils, how injured he is, how he suddenly shrinks back: "I’ve been found out"

>>10699707
Okay I gave the game another try. Enjoying it now, I just got the imagine the smell mask. I am no longer racist towards Dekus and am sorry for the atrocities I committed against the 6 million Dekus

>>10699732
Lol, yes the most taboo subject to lampoon. "On no! Not the heckin deku-jewrinoos!"

>>10701720
Okay I hate the game again. Everybody says the main appeal of Majora is the sidequests rather than the (four) dungeons, so alright I spent about an hour looking for stuff to do and...?

Firstly, fans act like this is some existential masterpiece. Perhaps it eventually becomes one, but so far the NPC's don't give a shit that the world is ending. You would think the moon falling would be more newsworthy but none of the characters are talking about it. I guess they're just trying to ignore it; maybe that is supposed to be the message of the game, idk

Anyway, maybe I'm not talking to people at the correct time of the correct day but nobody in Clock Town is giving me any quests or has any sort of crisis I can help with. I've got a few characters in my logbook and I'm guessing I learn some dance later in the game to teach the twins but man I don't know/care about the mailman's problems. Is the intended strategy in Majora to stalk each NPC one-by-one for then full 72 hours to learn each of their musings each hour? Is there anything I can actually do right now with my current equipment after beating the Woodfall Temple or do I have to keep playing more dungeons?

>>10698903
ocarina is worse because it has more filler content(child dungeons) and less interesting things to do outside the main dungeons

majora's mask dungeons are also better even if they are fewer

>>10699158
Link while it's happening:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dnW8QJxHD0

>>10698895
>>10698903
Deep story? I could see an argument for maybe the world but the main story is far from deep. Side quests are on par except for the Kafei and Anju quest and maybe the Cremia and Romani quests, but they're not far and away from anything other Zelda games have done.

Maybe this is only in relation to OoT where I could see an argument for the side quests since OoT boils down to just mini games and collectathon side quests, but OoT has a main story to start with, but also multiple acts. MM really backed out on a main story in exchange for area specific side plots that fans have tried to justify into more than what it is. The 5 stages of grief can apply to any story with a conflict and resolution, it's not special to MM.

I understand everyone plays games for different reasons but for me the big thing in metroidvanias and zelda perticular was the exploration. you are playing a big adventure game with a big world filled with secrets and stuff to find. its fun running through the world and trying to find secrets that reward you with more character power. anyway, I always felt like I couldnt enjoy that part of the game in mm because of the time limit. I always felt rushed no matter what.

>>10698927
It's nice to see someone say that MM quests are dog shit. For a game that's supposedly all about its side quests and NPCs, they're super tedious and uninspired. The game is a major slog and the "main quest" is short and diluted. Terrible dungeons that revolve around a stupid central room being reused or Stone Tower that's just a shitty dungeon but people praise because of a wooshy wooshy effect that basically is just a door to more rooms. The flipping "mechanic" was used in one hallway then dropped. The second half of that dungeon is just plain dungeon but recycling assets to make more out of it.

Hats off to the devs for being efficient because they were crunched for time, but that doesn't excuse the subpar designs. They did ok for their situation, but that's just excusing subpar designs.

I hate any game that has a constant time limit over your head and no rewinding time so I can do shit over again multiple times is not fun

>>10701991
How much stuff does Majora make you repeat, really

Because is OOT hard mode i loved the time limit in this game

>game displays a dedicated "this is when you're supposed to use the item" text box when talking to her
>people still do this shit instead
I just don't understand.

>>10703470
That depends on if you have prior knowledge going into the game or not.
You can optimize the game to the point where you only have to repeat a few things one or two times across an entire play through, while also never really feeling pressured for time.
But if you're going in blind? You're probably going to be repeating shit a lot as you learn what events connect to what in the schedule.

>>10703609
The textbox just tells you to press start to equip said item. Moments prior the player had to use the OoT z-targeting method to give a lunar tear to the Deku in Clock Town, so I am going to use the OoT method on Koume

>>10701861
Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeere theee fuuuuuuuuuuck aaaaare theeeee queeeeeeeests

>>10698891
Talk to her first, moron

God fucking dammit why do I have to lose my ammo whenever I play the Song of Tim. Does anyone think this makes the game more fun?

>>10704051
You gotta pay Tim for his music

>>10704051
>Does anyone think this makes the game more fun?
Yep. Literally every piece of grass or snowball next to an owl warp statue has bombs and arrows in it.

>>10703969
>Moments prior the player had to use the OoT z-targeting method to give a lunar tear to the Deku in Clock Town
this isnt true retard.https://youtu.be/9xtoueNcpLM?si=SdSsBmKXuVeWF6Ze&t=152

I think I've put more time into MM while still enjoying myself than OoT. As a kid, I only had a few games, and I would turn on my favorite games and try to do everything in them. MM simply has more to do. From hunting the thief bird for a ton of rupees, to the romani ranch endeavors, the swamp stage shooting gallery, fighing the bosses again, there is so much more post-game/replayable content. In OoT, I think what's left is trying to get the cow at Lon Lon, the shooting gallerys, gerudo horseback archery, and bombchu bowling.

>>10704081
Huh. I remember having the option to z-target him; I certainly wouldn't have attempted anything else

>>10704114
just play a different game you obviously don't like this one and are just complaining for the sake of complaining. You dont get a medal for beating it just go do something else.

>>10704115
>just play a different game
Mate how much of a bad omen can giving a fucking potion be, I'm enjoying the game rn don't get so defensive

>bring hot spring water to the blacksmith
>pour it over the ice
>nothing happens
ffs you can tell this game was made in just a year

>>10701984
I'm sorry you can't see beyond the surface, anon.

>>10704217
Why do MM fags always think that saying "you don't get it" constitutes as an explanation? Of course I don't see it that's why I asked. I don't think it's deep cause I don't see any deep meaning. Do you want to explain why it's deep or just keep acting like a 10th grade English teacher?

I fucking hate the snow temple because there's no quick way to go up a floor. Why do I have to do the fucking stomping puzzle EVERY TIME, FUCK

>>10703616
exploring the world and discovering how it changes as time passes is fun though

I hate this fucking idiot cunt bank teller why does it take so long to deposit my money STOP FUCKING TALKING LET ME MOVE MY MONEY oh my god if you mash A to skip his retarded text boxes you will also skip past the box where you input the amount you'd like to deposit, I hate this cunt I want to gouge his eyes out and rape the sockets

>>10704257
You just don't get it, anon. Your IQ doesn't meat the requirements. So sorry.

>>10704385
>meat
Two MM fags who still can't give a legitimate explanation on why MM is deep. Apparently you also need to act like the game is high IQ but can't use the correct spelling of "meet."

Supposedly, I'm the retarded one.

>>10704217
>>10704385

It's always funny how people who love MM think they're better than everyone else and are condescending towards anyone who doesn't act like MM is the pinnacle of Zelda.

>>10704421
you take these shitposters way too seriously

Just went into the mayor's office and finally found NPC's addressing the elephant (moon) in the room. Is this where le five stages of grief theory finally begins? rofl

>>10704436
I just want a genuine explanation on why people think MM is good at all. The story isn't deep and barely exists, the dungeons are short and terrible, the side quests are mediocre, and the gameplay is propped up entirely on gimmicks.

MM fans are all shit posters cause there's nothing good to say about the game. People I've talked to in real life also never give a substantial reason but just say "nah you're wrong. You don't get it" or "you had to be there and play it as a kid."

>>10704446
My take was that a lot of people didn't take the time to play OoT properly. They knew it was good but they weren't really that into games that they would spend the time to fully play through a game like that. So they only had superficial contact with it. Then MM came out and it had better graphics and was darker and people who viewed it superficially thought it was better than OoT. Whereas people who played through OoT completely saw MM more as an "expansion pack" rather than a fully fledged game, though still quite good.

MM is the only 3D Zelda with good dungeons, that's about it

>>10704446
ill explain it for you

mm dungeons are better
mm filler content is better
the time gimmick is fun
the dungeons are fewer of course but in my mind they are more interesting and memorable

it's a smaller game and it doesn't really do anything much new outside of the transformation masks or time schedule but that's enough for me

>>10704524
The only interesting one was Stone Tower and it's not that great. Also, only four dungeons, pretty lame.

>>10704538
>the time gimmick is fun
I liked it from a completionist point of view but ultimately it is just a gimmick and a way to create content with limited assets.

>>10704541
it might be a gimmick but it's one i like.

Learning how the world progressed and using it to figure out the quests just felt good to me. i know a lot of people hate the resetting but i don't really understand that point of view at all.

>>10704541
Quality over quantity. Majora has 1 very good dungeon, 2 pretty cool ones and an okay one.
Every other 3d zelda has 1 okay to coolish and a slog of boring ones

For a game that's all about the sidequests you sure can't just find them by going out and exploring in good faith. So much of the content is stuff you just have to happen upon at just the right time. Who the hell is going to peer at the mushrooms in northern Termina Field at exactly midnight on either the 1st or 2nd night? Well, whoever that is sure is lucky because now they can get Kamaro's mask. I don't know how anyone got all the masks in 2000 without either a strategy guide or just camping every location and stalking every NPC for the whole 72 hours.

I just finished the farm quest, I liked it but I have yet to see this existential masterpiece stuff people are talking about. Can I use Epona's song to call her into Termina field after playing the Song of Time or do I have to get the powderkeg again?

>>10704813
Now that you have Epona song you can summon her regardless, no keg required

>>10698891
I just started another playthrough of MM today. Part of the reason I prefer MM to OoT, is because how much of a slog the beginning of OoT is. Also, the first two child dungeons in OoT are so fucking boring. Majora's Mask is also a lot more cozy to play for me, and I really enjoy 100%ing it. I could detail more reasons why I prefer it over OoT, but, fuck it.
>>10699707
kek, this photo is hilarious. TDD

>>10698891
up until that point you've had to talk to NPCs in order to give them something but for some retarded reason you didnt do it this time and you are blaming the game?

>>10704813
>I have yet to see this existential masterpiece stuff people are talking about
Okay, going to the ranch on the night of the final day gave me chills. Those poor sisters.

>>10698916
Literally never happened to me, not even when I first played it at 10 yo. The item giving mechanic is shown very early in the game, so you shouldnt be confused by it. Im sorry thay youre retarded, anon.

>>10704482
This makes the most sense and seems to be what I'm learning is the case most of the time. Either that or they're so hung up on the Goron rolling and Zora swimming that they can't remember the rest of the game.

>>10704538
I like these points but I want to talk about what I've experienced since these are very frequently mentioned as why the game is better.

>better dungeons
Are they? Woodfall is meh but it's a first dungeon. Snow head is really repetitive and has issues with collision and the Goron rolling when the game lags which makes it really tedious. The ground floor is solid but when you start ascending it's very tame. Great Bay is better but relies on walking on janky surfaces and following pipes. The water freezing is cool but under utilized. Plus it's too easy since everything is color coded. Stone Tower is super overrated. It's not a bad dungeon but the flipping mechanic is used in one hallway, and then it's a glorified key that opens the second half of the dungeon which is aesthetically "generic dungeon." Most of the mini bosses are recycled between dungeons, too (in an encounter count, two are heavily recycled and four are seen once, but that makes half of them recycled).

Also the game is always talked about for its side quests and that's the big focus, but the dungeons are also amazing? Why aren't the major points of the game the focus of they're the best in the series? It's cause they're not. They're slightly bigger mini dungeons that 3/4 rely on a central room gimmick and all of them are designed to recycle content.

>better filler content
There are really two side quests that have more weight than average Zelda side quests. Kafei and Anju, and the Cremia and Romani arc. Outside of that, there's nothing spectacular about them. They're still the issue most Zelda games have of you needing to get a treasure chart, mask, etc as a key to the real reward.

>>10704538
>>10705027
It seems like that because one side quest leads to a do nothing mask that answers another side quest that gives a do nothing mask (all night, kamaro, don gero, bermman, Keaton, etc) that inevitably reaches a piece of heart. They're glorified keys to mediocre rewards. The good side quests still aren't that interesting. The island exploration and train track exploration quests are significantly better from the DS games. The DS games always gave tangible rewards, whether it was a new place to explore, a power up for your attacks, or a whole heart container.


>the time mechanic is fun

This is completely subjective. It's fun with replays but it's annoying to most for first playthroughs. I agree there's some fun to how it works, but to say that's a benefit to the game when it's the most controversial thing about it is asinine. The schedules are also stupid and make it more obnoxious to find the start to quests. "Check everywhere every day" wow more recycled content. You triple the playtime by making people check every thing three times but it also means 66% of the time you're going to be finding nothing.


>Dungeons are more memorable

I'll give that to Great Bay and Stone Tower. Snowhead is memorable in a bad way to me because the stray fairies there are awful, but other than that the first two are painfully generic. I don't get the quality over quantity argument where aLttP, OoT, TP, PH, ST, and SS all have more dungeons and more better dungeons. MM has at best 75% quality out of 4 dungeons. The other games do better than that but also have a full MM's worth of good dungeons in there.

I wish it went a little further with everything. All of the ideas feel like they're cut a bit short and are never fully developed. The second problem I have is that MM is talked about like it's God's gift to Zelda, at least it seems like its fans talk about it as such and think they're original for saying it's the best. It's a good game.

>>10704078
U are lying

One minute I love this game next minute j fucking hate it. I'm at the Zora cape and want to shoot down Tingle (I despise him) but the Song of Time takes away my arrows FOR SOME FUCKING REASON. Anybody who says that makes the game more fun is lying. So I'm running around Zora Cape hitting bushes like a dickhead but all I'm getting are rupees. Then I go to Zora Hall but the only shop there sells potions and no arrows. How could Nintendo NOT have known taking your ammo away was retarded?

>>10698891
It's a way to have a slight spin on the standard nintendo kid ootgoat opinion

Ocarina of Time had way better dungeons.

Forest Temple, Water Temple, Shadow Temple and Spirit Temple are Jabu Jabu's Belly are all very memorable, top-tier dungeons. The Deku Tree is a bit slow but everything else is good. Fire Temple is also pretty good.

Playing the Great Gay Temple, fucking hate it. There's these two points along the same waterway where you just BARELY cannot get up to higher ground with a dolphin jump. Tried a billion times and it didn't work so I guess that's not the solution, I guess it's my mistake for assuming this mechanic would be used

>>10707180
Zora Link is such a fucking pussy too, he gets knockback from everything. He can't even brush last a fucking lily pad, seriously?

FUCK do you think this fish boss has enough HP?

Shitty, ugly little game with a depressing atmosphere and superficial "darkness". OoT is a better game in every single way.

Mental illness if you don't like both of these games to at least some degree. I'm guessing the time mechanic filters some retards too stupid to play the Reverse Song of Time.

>>10701861
>Is the intended strategy in Majora to stalk each NPC one-by-one for then full 72 hours to learn each of their musings each hour?
Yes.
>Is there anything I can actually do right now with my current equipment after beating the Woodfall Temple or do I have to keep playing more dungeons?
Focus on beating the dungeons and clearing the main story. Pick up threads as they appeal to you, but on a first playthrough there's no point in obsessing about 100% before completing the main story. Depending on your choices in the endgame, you will find a very fun and cool little mystery mechanic to help you track down missing masks. You're on your own for heart pieces.

>>10705027
>>10705032

>dungeons
The dungeons in MM may be shorter/easier than OoT, but I always felt like from the moment you enter the greater Woodfall area, or whatever part, you are already kind of in "dungeon mode" albeit with more NPC interaction, whereas the actual dungeons swap NPCs for mobs. You're still solving traversal puzzles throughout to unlock doors and progress.
I like MM because it has that "diorama" quality to it. Every room/screen is a mini-puzzle-dungeon unto itself. This game oddly reminds me of Mario Party in this respect. It's like miniaturized 3D Zelda. I'm probably not explaining it well, but I never went for the "existential" bullshit people pump up about this game. To me, Termina is a mysterious global dungeon. Sort of protosoulslike, but obviously way easier because it is a game for kids. I like this game not because it's "dark and depressing" but because it is enigmatic and miniaturized. It's willing to be vague.

>filler content
I'm not sure what this even means, to me, beating Majora's Mask is not just knocking off Skull Kid at the end of the four dungeons but actually getting 24 masks, and the game has a very clever and sort of mysterious way of challenging you to get better at utilizing the 3 main transformation masks to help you achieve that goal. I dont view Kafei and Anju as "filler" or "side quest" - it's another prism through which you get to view the three days of Termina on your way to total mastery.

>time mechanic is fun
re: my comment above, the time mechanic encourages you to play economically and to think about utilizing your resets in the most effective manner. first time through, you probably have to stumble a bit to actually unlock access to the area dungeon. So you finally get access, but only have a few minutes of game time left, so you have to reset but now you can access the dungeon with the full three days at your disposal. if you're feeling dangerous, you finish that dungeon and break ground on the next, etc

>>10699304
I unironically think I could take your bootyhole and there's absolutely nothing you can do to stop me

>>10698916
>What's dumb about it? If you look it up you'll see tons of other people got stumped as well because the method that OP and several other people tried is how you hand items over to every other NPC in Ocarina and indeed Majora.
Because in Majora you need the prompt where it explicitly tells you to use an item during conversation, and by this point in the game you should already know how that works because you would have had to given a Moon's Tear to the Deku Scrub in Castle Town during the first 3 days.

>>10708929
>I dont view Kafei and Anju as "filler" or "side quest"
I do because Anju is a skank cunt who did Cremia dirty. I feel so bad for Cremia. CREAM AND COFFEE, CREMIA AND KAFEI, IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN THEM.

>>10704081
>>10709412
Hey liberal! Check this

>>10698891
The game introduces the fact NPC-Item interaction is happens during contextual dialogue at a prompt VERY early during the "Deku Link" first cycle, as you're forced to give the Business Scrub the moon pearl. This was to address the complaint that selling items to the begger was a crapshoot as more often than not people would use the item in front of him. Nobody who paid attention during the damn tutorial of the game would miss this.

I'm so tired of bad-faith bait threads.

>>10709495
>>10709484

>>10709497
Huh, never knew. I guess because that's a contextual item (Link only gets it off his pocket and goes "this item doesn't work here", while a potion is a consumeable.

>>10709484
To know that this specific Scrub wants the moon pearl you would've already needed to talk to him first (Regardless of wether you had the Tear in your posession or not) and still triggers the "Press Start to open inventory and use C to select item" prompt. The player would've still known. Ditto the first time talking to Koume before heading back to talk to Kotake, if you leave after the "ow ow help me", Link won't help until he has the full context of Skull Kid being the reason she's hurt. The players would've known of dialogue item presenting regardless.

>>10709530
>and still triggers the "Press Start to open inventory and use C to select item" prompt
All that prompt tells you is that you have to put stuff into a C-slot to use them, and obviously I had nothing to put into my C-slots. I went back to him after getting the Tear because I remembered that his wife wanted one, and so I Z-targeted him like Ocarina taught me because why should I press A at him and read all his dialogue if I already have a Tear I can just hand over to him with Z-targeting? So, I Z-targeted him and the game REWARDED me for doing so; it's teaching me that this is how I exchange items with NPC's. If I could do that in Ocarina, and if I could do that with this Deku here, I should be able to do that throughout the game.

>>10709545
>read all his dialogue
read all his dialogue again, rather

>>10709545
>All that prompt tells you is that you have to put stuff into a C-slot to use them
"Press START to open the Select Item Screen. Choose and use an item with C".
The B button on the HUD at that moment even says "STOP" to stop the whole Item sequence if you do not have the correct item. Nowhere else does the B button ever work as a "Stop" action button except for when you play the Ocarina. I refuse to believe anybody would miss it.

>>10709563
>Choose and use an item with C
And without anything in my inventory, I cannot experiment with WHEN I am to use an item with C. I fell back on what Ocarina taught me, and the game rewarded me for it.
>The B button on the HUD at that moment even says "STOP"
To stop talking to him I presume. Ocarina really could've used such a feature

>>10709571
>"Stop" to stop talking to him, one specific NPC at one specific moment and never put two and two together on the fact that was your cue to press start and present an item.
Again, I hate bad-faith bait.

>>10709579
Hey fuckbrain, the important text he is relaying to me is DOWN HERE. I'm looking HERE, paying attention to what HE'S FUCKING TELLING ME. I'm not looking at the bloody B button. What a fucking obnoxious cunt you have to be to assume you're so infallible that any contrary point to yours must be in bad faith

>>10709593

>>10709593
You mentioned Ocarina of Time in prior posts, so I'm surprised you forget what Navi tells you when you approach the very first door you can interact with in the whole game.
>Pay attention to what the Action Icon says!

>>10709612
That little factoid evidently didn't have any bearing on my playthrough of Ocarina, nor is that a more important factoid to remember than the actual process I did throughout the game. You have no right to accuse me of arguing in bad faith when you have consistently avoided the elephant in the room that I COULD Z-target the Deku and therefore SHOULD be able to Z-target in every other transaction.

>>10709626
She repeats it again, still Inside the Deku Tree, when you encounter your first pushable block. And also points out in water, the Icon in the HUD will change to "DIVE" and to keep our eyes open for actions.
It even led to the "It means (the button) is sensitive to context" joke two years later in Conker, come on.

>>10709636
Still ignoring the elephant in the room? You're talking about Ocarina and I'm talking about Majora. In Majora, I successfully Z-targeted the Deku to give him the tear, and therefore I should be able to that throughout the game. Ocarina reinforces my case but my case does not depend on it since what happened between me and the Deku in Clock Town is self-evident

>>10709641
The elephant in the room is missing the giant-ass bright green "STOP" button on a 4:3 240p videogame, anon. I'm talking about Ocarina to reinforce the point: the games expect you to put attention to the text in the giant-ass bright buttons so you know what action they're serving in the moment and spot. If you missed it that's on you and I guess that's why now modern games have stuff like yellow paint, action buttons popping right beside the character and "I bet I could do [action] here" with "press button to do action] also plasted as a subtitle. Sorry you couldn't be bothered to check the bright huge skittles on top of the screen somehow.

>>10709657
I already told you why I was reading the text instead of looking at the b-button. The elephant in the room is that I COULD Z-target and therefore SHOULD. You have refused to address this point or even give an explanation for why I was able to Z-target the Clock Town Deku in the first place.

>>10698891
Personality power.

Some people are retards. True patricians know that it's ALttP > TP > OoT. Once you've played those three, you played them all. "Don't upset the table!" or whatever those crazy japs believe in.

>>10709657
if the moon tear needed to be presented during the conversation we'd be having a "why can't I figure out how to get to the clock tower" thread instead. you can't fix zoomers I guess.

>>10709761
>zoomers
This image here (>>10699158) was made in 2011 at the latest, but is certainly older. Searching up "Koume potion" will reveal forum threads from before the game had even turned 10 years old asking why Link is drinking the potion instead of handing it to her. Maybe the problem isn't zoomers but the game being quirky?

>>10709530
>Link won't help until he has the full context of Skull Kid being the reason she's hurt
What the fuck is his problem?

>>10709682
>>10698891
It's because the Tear is an object of desire for the Business* Scrub, not for Link. Whereas the red potion is an object of desire for both Koume and Link.

>>10710032
I desire to wear Ocarina of Time's wearable masks, but I can still hand them over to people with Z-targeting

>>10709760
>TP remotely close to being a good game
Needed that kek.

Okay so I'm in the Ikana region. I played the Song of Storms and this girl left the house, I went up to her and she left immediately and the door is locked. I guess I fucked something up, do I have to play the Song of Time again or is this fine?

>>10709484
NOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST UNDERSTAND BASIC GAME MECHANICS. Disrespectful.

*proceeds to chimp out at the Mayor's home in the middle of the (2nd) night because it's Goron History Month*

>>10710207
You're supposed to sneak by her and get inside. You can lure her out again by placing a bomb in front of the door.

>>10710226
Yeah that's fucking excellent if only I didn't lose my bombs every time I played the Song of Time. I'm now in the well and this cunt wants me to give him 10 Deku Nuts, now I have to farm for them because you know why. Fucking Christ

oh my FUCKING GOD I HAVE TO GO BACK AND BUY POWDERKEG. Did the devs have a sitdown when making the Ikana area and brainstorm how to kill the pacing as much as possible? First the zombies one by one tell you to fuck off and run around the whole world like a dickhead getting them shit, and now this fucking crack in the floor can't be cleared with regular bombs. For fucks sake

One thing j really fucking hate about this game is you can't replace a mask in your c-slot with something else while you're still wearing it. JUST TAKE IT OFF WHEN I MOVE SOMETHING ELSE TO THE SLOT YOU STUPID CUNT. YOU'RE ALWAYS FUCKING PAUSING IN THIS GAME FUCK

>>10698891
It has better world design.
I much prefer the main town being smack dab in the middle of the overworld, it does a lot to streamline things. Having 1 warp song instead of like fucking 6 also helps.
It also has some of the best dungeons in the series despite there being less of them, the bosses are pretty great too.
Also planning out a route for your next cycle and executing it is just plain satisfying.
The transformation masks also add variety to Link's gameplay which is nice, Deku being the least interesting of the group.
All that said it doesn't really git gud until you reach Snowhead. This game has a dreadfully slow start but gets much better later on, just stick with it.

Why does so much of the shit in this game want to waste your fucking time. Could it possibly take any longer to put down a statue? I'm gonna be hearing the Elegy of Emptiness in my sleep

>>10710441
Why couldn't it have just been an item you get, why does it have to be a long as fuck song with a long as fuck magical effect animation

Thought it was clever that the game made me swim up to the ceiling to open the chest, haha... Just kidding, Link is too retarded to pull it down

Why is the red emblem THERE!?!?!?!? I DON'T WANT TO PLAY THE ELEGY OF EMPTINESS ANYMORE. WHY IS THE IKANA REGION HELLBENT ON WASTING MY FUCKING TIME

They should call this game Majora's Menu with how often you have to pause it to change your shit

How many times am I gonna have to fight the teleporting cunt with the staff? Were the programmers proud of this shitty boss that they repeated him throughout the game? He's so fucking boring and takes forever. COME ON

>>10699808
"based" is not a word, it's something a rapper made up to justify the accusations of being a "basehead" (crack additct)

>>10710472
They had an extreme hardon for wasting your time with the song gimmick in both OoT and this, the animations and wait times are completely obnoxious for doing basically anything song-related.

>>10705032
if you don't like time kino you are some kind of brain dead dopamine addict

why don't you go play a skinnerbox gacha game if all you care about are rewards and streamlined gameplay, not exploring or using your brain lmao

>>10710387
the one true valid critique, fuck that shit i hated it

>>10710581
its a word if we say it is bro, thats how words work

>>10698891
The first time you talk to her she gives you a prompt to hold out a C item, before you even have the bottle.
If you drank it when you went back then you got gold fish brain.

>>10698989
The business scrub doesn't know that. He clearly has a contract with the bean seller to only sell to customers the bean seller has cleared the safety talk with.
The fat fuck hiding in a hole is a pretty dumb business strategy though.

>>10710608
>its a word if we say it is bro, thats how words work
But it has a dark (heh) origin.

>>10710732
How the hell does Link prove he has a bean licence?

>>10698891
I prefer Majora's Mask to OoT because I just do- ye

>>10710795
The bean seller puts a magic mark on Link just like the banker does.

>>10710040
Fortunately you are not Link. When Link sees a citizen of Hyrule in need of a mask, his sense of civic duty extinguishes his desire to wear one.

>>10710371
Absolutely filtered. You don't need to "run around the whole world" because all the items you need for that quest are found in the dungeon itself. You are mentally retarded.
>>10710570
Skill issue. Stand on one of the higher-up teleporters and you can get visibility to the others. Use fire arrows.
>>10710387
>>10710563
>>10710608
>the one true valid critique, fuck that shit i hated it
Problem with the Zelda series as a whole, still not solved circa TotK

>>10710828
>all the items you need for that quest are found in the dungeon itself
If you already have the necessary items to gain access to the rooms containing said items. This also hinges on you knowing in advance.
>Skill issue
I didn't say it was difficult I said it was boring. The fight sucks cock it's not challenging at all it's just waiting for this cunt and the game makes you fight him a million times.

>>10710835
>If you already have the necessary items to gain access to the rooms containing said items. This also hinges on you knowing in advance.
Magic Beans and Blue Potion can both be had in one trip to Woodfall, which you can either soar to or take the shortcut directly to the witches' house. Otherwise everything is in there and requires just a little bit of curiosity to figure that out
>I didn't say it was difficult I said it was boring.
It's boring because you're not doing it right.

>>10710840
>one trip to Woodfall
u have to get that cunt the magic mushrooms first. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

>>10710853
Ikana Business Scrub sells them as well. Filtered again.

>>10710859
Thank you for proving that you do have to dick around finding shit because it's not a dungeon that can be completed in its own right. Would be less of an issue if I didn't have to go to the fucking bank to get my money whenever I use the Song of Time

>>10710865
You suck at the game. Simple as.

>>10710873
I suck because the pacing goes to complete shit once you enter the Ikana region

>>10710883
Whatever you say man. It's the land of the dead and a culmination of your journey.

>>10710893
Yeah land of the dead this is where fun gameplay is buried. Now go get your surprise powderkeg and play the elegy a billion times like a good boy

>>10710895
Seething zoomer pussy.

>>10710939
Yes the zoomers are out to get you, never mind that people have bitched about this game since launch day

>>10710978
Delusional zoomer cope.

"Majora's Mask: It Sucks On Purpose" sure is a slogan.

>>10710979
Why are you trying to argue something that is easily disproven? Google lets you search by date, and you can easily find people complaining about Majora (mainly about having to go back in time), deriding it as the weakest Zelda if not outright a bad game. But sure, the zoomers are out to get you and nobody had anything bad to say about this game until the zoomers got online. Ironically, this game's reputation has improved due to zoomers, who have watched video essays calling it an existentialist masterpiece.

>>10711000
Whatever you say chief.

>>10711002
Mate, are you a zoomer insecure about his age?

>>10698891
>I sure love farming for equipment after I go back in time!
>I sure love having to restart a quest after the day changes!
>I sure love having a time limit for a series known for exploration!
>I sure love having to use a guide to find all the useless masks!
>I sure love having only 4 shitty dungeons
OoT is the only good 3D Zelda.

>>10711013
You forgot a major one:
>I love standing around waiting for time to pass in the evening because I have nothing better to do while I wait for an NPC to catch up on their schedule

>>10709760
TP is dogshit.

>>10711019
That and the shitty Zora egg quest. This game was a black sheep in the series and now it's beloved for some odd reason.

>>10711013
>>10711019
>>10711032
All this while the worst soundtrack on the N64 toots off-key notes in your ears.

>people are seriously filtered by losing rupees and arrows
Every owl stone has weeds near it that always drops consumables you need for the area. Grass contains ammo items plentifully. Powder kegs are used in an extremely limited number of situations. If you feel like you need maximum ammo to be prepped for Zelda combat encounters, you are bad at video games.
>he doesn't like the pure unfiltered ludokino of encountering a dungeon obstacle for which you do not have the required ammo, and backtracking to find it, while the time is running
Piss babies the lot of you.

I cannot wait until this fucker finishes the game so I dont have to see his blog anymore.
>Im the angry video game nerd i play games i hate and complain the whole time. I AM HAVING FUN HONEST

>>10711025
All the 3D Zelda games are shit. They kept making them easier and easier specifically to scare off otaku types and the autistic man babies (us) who live on this site

>>10709484
Hey! Liberal! Leave them kids alone

>>10710018
By that point, he was already a Struggler. One stuck on the body of a child already fucking fed up with the flow of Causality, a straight path to become Mr. Skelly Man.

One wounded hag who resembles the mother of his enemy was no concern of him unless she was relevant to his quest.

>>10711289
>Every owl stone has weeds near it that always drops consumables you need for the area
Clock town doesn't have shit. Aldo losing your money is retarded
>you are bad at video games
Or maybe you literally need a certain type of ammunition to destroy an obstacle/solve some puzzle

>>10712339
>>you are bad at video games
>Or maybe you literally need a certain type of ammunition to destroy an obstacle/solve some puzzle
Yeah and if you can't manage a simple economic problem (rotating inventory with expiry) you are simply too stupid to play a video game - manifestly so, because it creates a real obstacle to your finishing it.

>>10712357
>can't manage a simple economic problem
I can, literally nobody has ever said this aspect of Majora is challenging gameplay; what people have said is it's a waste of fucking time (as are many other aspects of this game)

>>10712371
If you show up to literally anything in this game missing arrows or bombs you're just retarded. Just slash some fucking grass dude. If you can't find bombs you probably don't need them.

>>10712384
>If you can't find bombs you probably don't need them
I do. Didn't find any bombs in the Ikana Canyon, which I needed to bring the girl out of the house a second time (unless I wanted to play the Song of Time again)

>>10712391
You don't need the bombs to lure her out, she periodically fetches water.
Just so you know, sometimes you have to repeat things in games for reasons other than game over.

>>10712391
>>10712396
Also - if you're so impatient, you don't even need bombs, you can use the Blast Mask then run over to the right side of the house. You're just completely filtered man.

>>10712396
Cool let me sit around with my thumb up my arse and wait—Majora loves to make me do that
>>10712402
I didn't have the Blast Mask though because I hadn't sitten around North Clock Town with my thumb up my arse waiting for 11PM on the first night yet

>>10710371
You would've known you had taken time to fight Garo spirits for their knowledge. Since Ikana has no NPCs but Pamela and her dad, the Garo are the only intel source.

>>10712405
>I didn't have the Blast Mask though because I hadn't sitten around North Clock Town with my thumb up my arse waiting for 11PM on the first night yet
Not my problem. Could you share your skull circumference?

>>10712431
>Not my problem
So you stick your thumb up your arse?
>>10712423
Whether you learn at the castle or from a Garo spirit, you still have to fuck off and buy one because your regular bombs are arbitrarily insufficient

>>10712436
No retard. I happened to be running through North Clock Town one night on the way to the Deku Challenge after doing some stuff during the day and noticed the time was about ripe for Sakon so I wanted two-three minutes for him to show up.
In-game hours are 1 minute. The most you ever have to wait for anything, assuming you're being retarded and doing 1 quest per cycle then resetting, is like 5 minutes. You're filtered.

>>10712436
If you learn from a Garo, it'd be pretty much right after hitting the Owl Statue in Ikana Valley, so then on that spot it'd be quicker to just warp, buy and return right were you were.

>>10712451
>I happened to be
lol what is this survivorship bias, duuuuuh the game is fine because I got lucky and happened upon xyz ur just a n00b

>>10712451
>noticed the time was about ripe for Sakon
Don't know who the fuck that bloke is by the way, maybe I didn't happen upon his specific schedule at some specific place at some specific hour on some specific day
>assuming you're being retarded and doing 1 quest per cycle then resetting
Your method requires advance knowledge of multiple quests and their triggers

>>10711289
That's not good game design anon.

>>10711289
>Grass contains ammo items plentifully.
The worst change the Zelda series ever made

desu if you don't want to immerse yourself in the world and mechanics of time travel you can just play some mobile slop with auto-everything...

its not your fault you have such tastes

>>10712578
Says who nigger? Some YouTube video essay? A textbook? Professor Game Design? Fucking kill yourself. "Bad game design." I have never run out of ammo in Zelda. Never, not one time, was I ever caught missing an arrow or a bomb. You're all fucking retarded babies.

>>10712653
Says me who didn't have fun you pompous twit
>Never, not one time, was I ever caught missing an arrow or a bomb
And never, not one time, did I ever have fun running around like a dickhead whacking bushes to restock on the ammo lost from time travelling. You know as well as I do if in 2000, the game released WITHOUT taking away your ammo and rupees, you wouldn't have complained about that.

>>10712662
Pointless birdbrained counterfactual. What's your argument exactly? That because you, personally, were caught without the required item, the game has bad design? We have a word for this!
>YOU GOT FILTERED BY A KIDS GAME, NIGGER!

>>10712697
>That because you, personally
EVERYBODY WAS BY VIRTUE OF PLAYING THE SONG OF TIME LOL WHAT IS YOUR LOGIC

Oh my god is there really no way to speed up time? All I have left is the marriage quest and I have to wait till 1PM from the Dawn of the Final Day, ie 8 minutes and 20 seconds of standing around because I genuinely do not have anything else to do

>>10712746
Grab Chateau Romani while you still have some time left and just Goron roll around. It's fun.

(1/3)
Beat this game about two hours ago. To all the people who told me it's better than Ocarina... I'm inclined to agree. When Majora gets a move on it's so much better than OoT it's not even funny, but when Majora is having a Majora moment it's fucking awful. Real love-hate relationship with this one.

What do I really like? The imagery is incredible all throughout. It's not just the world and setpieces, but those cutscenes too: even something like a cow against a black backdrop can be pure, extremely interesting kino and Majora proves it. At times I was reminded of End of Evangelion and that is a compliment and a half. The ending to the marriage quest is really nice too. Married under the moonlight? So romantic. Dying together in holy matrimony? So romantic. That very moon being the cause of death? UGDSFHGDFDGUIHDG incredible stuff. And that scenery when you go to the moon... beautiful, I shed a tear.

As another Anon said, MM is very diorama-like. The different regions you explore are full of things to do, as though the game is one big dungeon. There is a lot of stuff here that would be relegated to sidequests in any other game, but Majora fleshes its world out enough that everything in this diorama is relevant—it's not like Ocarina where the towns are just formalities and where Hyrule Field is a timesink. Unfortunately, the game's quirkiness gets the better of it at times: the game punished me for remembering that I just z-targeted the Deku in Clock Town to give him the Tear, the game punished me for remembering that the Deku in the swamp sold Magic Beans, and who the FUCK would think to talk to the bloody seahorse? Why is the seahorse mandatory to beat the game?

>>10713294
The dungeons themselves are pretty good, lots of clever puzzles indeed. I also really like that your gear isn't made useless once you leave the dungeon you found it in. However, the dungeons are very miniaturised in that most problems Link comes across are very self-contained and immediately solvable; you don't really need to map out the dungeon or recontextualise anything you previously saw. The world is easily more interesting than the dungeons, and that's not a bad thing, but it is a different sort of game to Ocarina (not too different in concept to BotW actually) and some Ocarina diehards are unfortunately unable to appreciate that. While the combat mechanics are once again unutilised, the bosses here don't revolve around slowly-executing gimmicks like in Ocarina—oftentimes they do indeed revolve around gimmicks, but the player is usually in control of the execution. Some of these bosses have WAY too much HP though, like come on mate hurry up and die. I think my favourite boss is the bat dude, and the worst is that boring wizard you fight like a million times, piss off you!

The pacing is all over the place. The first hour is mostly worthless gameplay by design and I imagine it would be a nightmare to replay. The following hour was even worse for me because of the Deku cunt who refused to sell me beans and my dekucaust drawing speaks for itself. But once you get those beans it's mostly full speed ahead until you go on this anabasis for the Zora eggs. Worse after, just about everything in the Ikana region makes me want to drown people. I never want to hear the Elegy of Emptiness for the rest of my life. A lot of things in Majora seem specifically designed to waste as much of your time as possible. I've bitched more than enough about the timesinks in this thread already, but man, god damn. I thought Ocarina wasted your time a lot but Majora takes it to the next level.

>>10713294
>>10713296
Now, for a game supposedly all about the sidequests, I didn't really care about a lot of these characters. For one thing, very few of the characters even address the elephant in the sky, which is that the world is about to fucking end (I don't recall ANYBODY outside of Clock Town/Romani Ranch even mentioning the moon). For another, characters cease to be characters as quickly as they are introduced. The imagery of the wedding was powerful, I didn't actually care for Anju and Kafei themselves lol. Here's the character moments I really liked:
>putting the princess in a bottle kek
>saluting the captain
>the postman's final delivery
>the Deku butler
>Romani and Cremia
I love Romani and Cremia so much. I got the chills going to the barn on the night of the final day, Cremia is without a doubt the highlight of this game's writing, but does she warrant classifying the game as an "existential masterpiece"? I'd say no. Does anything in this game? Again, no; like I said characters come and go very quickly without actually exploring the concepts. If making a passing reference to death or whatever and doing nothing with it is deep storytelling then pop culture references in the Big Bang Theory are jokes. I'll admit, the surreal stuff when you go to the moon is unfettered kino, but there's not enough of it to call it an existential masterpiece as it leaves the Skull Kid as pretty much a non-character; you have the flashback with the fairies sure, you have grandma's story about the giants sure, and you have the giants on the moon asking you what the meaning of friendship sure, but then what? I'm not saying Majora's Mask has bad storytelling, not at all, but it is SIMPLE storytelling and completely undeserving of its reputation if you have ever played a game other than Kirby.

Music is a mixed bag as for every brilliant piece there's something so annoying I would mute my TV.

>>10713294
>>10713296
>>10713303
(4/4 I guess)
All in all, Majora's Mask is a lot like anal sex; it's a pain in the arse, but you gotta learn to love it. In a similar manner, Majora's Mask without a guide is a lot like unprotected anal sex. It's a gem of a game and much more intriguing than Ocarina, but I can say with a high level of confidence I will NEVER beat it again.

>>10698891
I just think its better paced. Ocarina's adult dungeons were better though.

Retarded zoomer nigger filtered

>>10712746
There's a song that speeds up time, anon.

>>10713394
The song of double time only jumps you to sunrise/sunset

>>10711019
If you are going for 100% you use waiting time to grab chests with rupees to put in the bank for the 5000 rupee heartpiece. There's at least 3 chests in or around clocktown that are easy to grab, and plenty of rupees in Termina field as well.

>>10713308
What was the purpose of ending your review with such a disgusting analogy? We are not on Reddit.

>>10713401
Never mind, I confused it with the song that slowed down time.

>>10713406
This site has several porn boards, including /y/ which is evidently dedicated to anal sex

>>10713408
>>10713406
Also, because it's true. Majora's Mask is a pain in the arse! But you gotta learn to love it

TIL Zelda fans have buttsex inbetween ethnic cleansing

>>10698891
Termina>Hyrule

>>10712653
says me. MM is anti fun the game. Everything is busy work. I haven't seen one good argument against the points being made in this thread.

>>10713863
MM fans seem to just be like that. You point out an actual problem, something that had no positive upsides whatsoever (unless you just value wasting your time in repetition) and they'll act like it's somehow part of the game's genius you aren't appreciating even though they can't deny it's just something that sucks that you have to bear.

It would be one think if they were like "I like the game, but this thing is stupid and you're right it should have been done differently", but no, every stupid rushed part of it dragging it out is somehow necessarily worthy of your time.

>>10698968
It must be extremely frustrating, going through life like this. Like, how do you even rationalize getting out of bed in the morning?

>>10713874
I think Celda mindbroke a lot of millennial Zelda fans. So much of the nonsensical Zelda discourse suddenly makes perfect sense when explained as a coping mechanism for not getting the dark fantasy followup they expected

>>10714027
I like Wind Waker, but I didn't care for the Triforce shards. I don't like MM for it's "grimdark atmosphere" or "existential dread" or whatever YouTube faggots yammer about. I just think it's simply the best looking, best playing, most well-thought out N64 game. It's the best the system can deliver. Ocarina's Hyrule just seems like a desert compared to Termina, you can tell the devs were sort of unsure of what to do with N64 while they made it, especially when you compare it to beta screens.

I blogging not against the rules? Make a youtube video or something.

>>10714125
>Nooo don't discuss retro games we need more code veronica bait or FF7 N64 threads

>>10699707
First they came for the Dekus, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Deku.

Then they came for the Gorons, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Goron.

Then they came for the Zoras, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Zora.

Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up.

There should be another game set in Termina.

>>10708929
A lot of this feels like moving the goal posts. "The content before the dungeon is when the dungeon starts" like no other Zelda game has that. Why are side quests in MM not filler but they are in every other Zelda? You didn't say they are, but from what I'm gathering MM is the exception. You can correct me if I'm interpreting that wrong.

I agree the pre-dungeon content and the side quests are better than the average Zelda game, but you can't start using that stuff to say that's really part of the dungeon or it's part of the main story gameplay route because then you need to do that for the other Zelda games. At that point you're comparing a lot more and other Zelda games still offer better stories and experiences while having stronger dungeons. I think this shift certainly helps MM more than the others, but I don't think it pushes past any other games.

The first two points I think can be attributed to any Zelda game, but as for the time mechanic, I can get behind it providing some time management requirements which is fun, but honestly only on subsequent playthroughs and even then, it can be annoying. I think the game mechanic helps even if it's not for everyone because it gives it identity. But it's fair to acknowledge the downsides it can cause, like frustration or annoyance. That said, MM is a sequel so it should ask more of the player and I think it does that pretty well. It's not perfect, but I respect it. The following is for the sperg who thinks he's making a point, not for you.

>>10710608
Acknowledging other opinions and viewpoints is pretty kino. If you can't understand why someone might not enjoy it, that's your problem. The time mechanic doesn't help with exploration and can be circumvented though isolating each task to a cycle. When the easiest solution is to avoid it, there's an issue. Why don't you go get a job and live in real life if you want to schedule out everything and practice time management?

>>10699707
The Triforce armband makes this.

>>10698891
You maybnotice that any criticism of MM leads to the immediate retort 'heh well actually that's fault because you were meant to do xyz', yet xyz always hinges on prior knowledge of something up ahead. This betrays the obvious truth that every MM fan used a strategy guide, since playing it organically is an enormous waste of time.
/thread

>>10716564
>yet xyz always hinges on prior knowledge of something up ahead.
Yep, you nailed it.

>>10699707
6 million Dekus in just 3 days? Even with the Inverted Song of Time the math just doesn't add up.

I played MM first so I never had this problem.

>why mm>ot
Because it come out after the best game ever and almost nobody had a bad reaction to it. This alone should sound very strange, it just dosen't happen. While rough and ofc not groundbreaking like OT, mm it's such a strange experience that it just moves you in someway. Ofc when you play it (if you play it) after you know everything about it its power is diminished.

>>10718020
Yeah, it moves me... to get up from my seat and turn off the console because the game's such a slog

>>10718248
The illusion of button pressing repetition tends to break on this game no amount of sad child sex stories and internet fratricide can overcome. I played it originally when it first came out with a guide, even then the behavior of giving the witch the red potion is poorly implemented an bizarre so it's easy to do it incorrectly. iirc:
talk to witch - > c button prompt comes up -> go to menu, assign potion -> c button prompt sitll present -> give to witch

if that onscreen text is not present however it becomes a sippy quickly and you have to do the boring monkey forest again. At least the turtles say "cat crap" which is kind of funny

>>10698891
If you've played a lot of Zelda games, especially a lot of the 3D Zelda titles, then Majora's Mask is going to stand out a lot. The time loop, the masks giving vastly different abilities, and even the goal of solving character problems over killing dungeon bosses help it to be vastly different while still holding on to a lot of the aspects that make 3D Zelda games popular.

I'm not getting into the quality of OoT/MM, since that conversation has been done to death.

https://youtu.be/653wuaP0wzs
OP here, I just watched this video and take back every bad thing I said about MM because holy fucking shit the remake sounds like garbage, how the hell does anybody seriously recommend the 3DS version? The improved Song of Double Time doesn't make up for everything else

>>10718959
Because they made it for people with your exact complaints. The Ice Arrows change is especially insulting, but people bitched hard enough.

>>10718964
>with your exact complaints
Based on that video, the only complaint of mine it addressed was changing the Song of Double Time. The Stone Tower still sucks cock, switching items still sucks cock, and many of the things I praised (like bosses not revolving around shit gimmicks) were ruined

Who the fuck is Majora anyway?

>>10720114
The monster you fight at the end of the game that possessed skull kid

>>10720114
>>10720457
By the way, it's Mujura (ムジュラ) in Japanese. I guess they went with Majora for the west because it sounds like Latin or something (while in Japanese "mu" has mystical associations)

>>10698891
>Why do people think MM>OoT
Because I have more fun with MM on repeat playthroughs.
Also the majority of people consider MM to be the blacksheep of the family, even Nintendo is embarrassed of it.

1/2
I love MM and I tend to enjoy it more on replays than OOT, but I would never claim it is superior in any sort of objective way because it clearly isn't. Personally I love the time mechanic because it implements a sense of strategy and prioritization to each play session that is missing from other zeldas. There's something exciting to me about planning out what I need to do, timing everything so I'm in the right place at the right time in the world, and locking in that progress with the song of time. Of course that's not universal, and a lot of anons would find that annoying rather than fun which I can understand. It's also hard for me to put myself in the shows of a first time player as I've been playing this game for 15 years or so and know it inside and out. I do think it's one of the only zeldas thats better on a replay.

Having said all that, you can see where the game was rushed in some places and it is much less polished than OOT. If you don't know what you're doing it's really easy to fuck up and have to do a lot of shit over and over. The zora eggs is a prime example, if you don't already have 4 bottles, you're going to need to go back and forth potentially more than once, which is even more annoying when you consider one of those bottles has to be obtained in the ikana graveyard, which is accessible by that point but it's in a completely different part of the world which you otherwise can't do anything with yet. The redead section where you have to get different items is also fucking annoying and makes me want to quit every time I get to it because it just isn't fun. Stuff like this never really happens in OOT, pretty much every time you go a new location you have everything you need and can get to the temple within half an hour or so.

>>10721182
2/2
There's some other trivial stuff about MM that drags down the experience. For me a big thing is having to constantly go into the menu to swap items around, which is a problem in OOT as well but it's really taken up a notch in MM due to the large amount of masks to use. A average dungeon experience requires me to swap my items every couple of minutes which gets really annoying and it gets worse as the game goes on, with the stone tower being the worst example.

I realize I just went on and on about shit that sucks about MM but I just wanted to vent and it really is one of my favorite zeldas. I just think fans of it tend to overlook it's flaws and over hype some of it's good traits (although I do love a lot of as well.) Overall I would say MM is a very interesting game to replay and talk about but it isn't an almost flawless experience across the board like OOT is.

>>10721182
>>10721195
I'm looking forward to the pc port because it will fix basically all of this.
1 zora egg has been a romhack option for years, same with dpad masks. Those two options alone fix up the major issues with MM, besides the well. Which really has no easy fix beyond reworking the whole area IMO.

>>10721182
>I do think it's one of the only zeldas thats better on a replay
Is that true? I guess I'll replay it some time, though I was pretty confident I'd never do so

>>10698891
Idk what to tell you, OP. Admittedly the side quests could be very cryptic and frustrating at times, but experimentation is a huge part of MM and that’s what makes it more interesting than OoT, I think. OoT had little in the way of substantial side content and the world felt way too empty and linear.

>>10721182
> I love MM and I tend to enjoy it more on replays than OOT, but I would never claim it is superior in any sort of objective way because it clearly isn't.
Don’t doubt yourself anon. Objective and subjective are reconciled. Eloi need not trifle with the opinions of morlocks.

>>10699831
No it doesn't you worthless faggot. FF7s retarded meteor is an embarrassing joke, no matter how much time you waste in gold saucer or breeding chocobos, it is nothing more than a pointless, limp-dicked plot device. In Majora's Mask, if you idle too long the moon WILL crash into Termina and end the game.

>>10698927
>typed out "Like,"
Didn't read anything else, limpwristed faggot.

its called majoras mask because you play as majora and its your mask

>>10722262
Are you right mate

MM never happened. Link died. It was all in his head.

>>10722276
imagine dying while on a journey to find your lost gps

>>10722168
In Majora's Mask it's completely inconsequential if the moon crashes into the planet whereas in FF7 it literally would be the end of the world.

>>10698891
because apart from less dungeons, everything else is executed better

ocarina's overworld is dogshit compared to majora. ocarina's strength is the dungeons

>>10722293
How do you know it wouldn't destroy the whole world? Because some people think they can escape?

>>10722440
because it happens multiple times and at worst you lose a few minutes of progress

>>10722481
It's a game over, anon.

>>10722313
Ocarina is better in every way, plus it has Zelda, Saria, and Ruto. Fierce Diety is pretty cool tho

mm is just link experiencing the entirety of the past, present, and future of hyrule and all its diverging timelines

>>10722293
>In Majora's Mask it's completely inconsequential if the moon crashes into the planet
nigga it's the end of the world in majora too

>>10698927
optional dungeons? ice cavern and bottom of well or are there more?
although optional i'd argue those two are pretty essential with what you get from them

>>10723674
Yeah the ice cavern is a free way to get the Zora tunic, you don't even have to complete the dungeon to get it you can back out halfway as long as you've grabbed a flame

>>10722293
Moon crashing wipes all of termina, there is nowhere on the map you can hide that won't get you a game over.
Even deep under the ocean inside great bay temple.
The bomb shop people had plans to go to outer space, which maybe would have saved them until they starved to death eventually.

>>10725308
>The bomb shop people had plans to go to outer space
It's amusing how high tech Termina is, I swear I saw mainframes in the pirate hideout too

>>10698891
>Why do people think MM>OoT
They think that because MM > OoT. Just because you're a retard doesn't mean other anons are wrong.

>>10722313
Majora's the dogshit overworld, what are you talking about?

Honestly I don't get the current praise for OoT. I played it at launch and I loved it, but playing it now is an absolutely brain dead experience. At least MM has a bit of spice to it.

>>10728470
I would've stayed in Termina so Cremia could groom me. Also Nintendo had a lot of balls to include a scene with this chick – who literally sells milk for a living and has stupid big tits larger than Link's head, and is sad that some dude she's in love with is getting married to another woman – where upon completing her quest she tells shota Link she considers him an adult and pulls his face into her massive honkers as a reward

Majora's Mask is just more fun than Ocarina of Time. No citation needed.

(Doesn't mean I dislike or that I don't very much like it, and it doesn't mean I like Majora mostly for its story or whatever, because that's not why I have fun with it more than OoT) - No citation needed.

>>10727890
Nta but there really is fuck all to do in OOT hyrule field and it is way too big and empty. It honestly is really annoying to traverse until you have epona, and it's one of the reasons I kind of struggle to motivate myself to get through the child section on replays. At least it has warp points but it's still a hassle.

MM on the otherhand is a lot smaller but the field has enemies and a lot of little secrets to find, and you have clocktown in the middle with 4 exits toward each region which makes it really easy to get around. All the areas feel more populated with distinct characters as opposed to OOT and all the locales are memorable

>>10724919
???
What about iron boots?

>>10728805
OoT focuses on the dungeons really, with the overworld being there to make it feel like a world, but not that much to do in it.
MM takes the overworld aspect to a next level, full with details and interesting NPCs (and large quests leading up to a dungeon) but there are just 4 dungeons as a result.
I do like MM more because it feels more 'real' and also quite different from the 'traditional' formula.

>>10728470
>At least MM has a bit of spice to it.

MM is a vastly more tedious game that only feels like it has more meat to it because it drags out so much of its content and/or locks it behind repetition and waiting and is obtusely obscure because of how much you have to do to just do basic experiments with the game state.

The 3DS MM is a much more 'honest' game because of this, and people hate it because its much better at laying bare the good and bad qualities of the game without using time wasting as a crutch.

>>10728910
>I have no soul: the post

the moon was ganon

hol up

if termina is real

and you can just walk to termina

then that would mean in wind waker

when hyrule flooded

the entire planet of termina would've had to fill up with water first

>>10728998
Fluid dynamics gets complex when you have to take dimensional pressure into account.

>>10726949
I mean great bay temple is a giant metal water filtration machine with LED lights everywhere.
Its really a testament to the art direction that despite how high tech termina can get, it never clashes with the more traditional stuff. In the newer games the high tech shit sticks out like a sore thumb IMO.

>>10728910
God, that looks like shit compared to the original.
Aonuma really had no clue why people liked MM.

>>10699884
Name one time Nintendo didn't rip from Go Nagai, generally /m/, and Akira Toriyama.

>>10709760
>Wind Waker 2
>good
Lol

>>10728998
Technically the entire dimension in which Termina resides, not just the planet. After all, it's a lower dimension so it'd fill up first.

yet if it's all a hallucination how could link, a medieval peasant, conceive of high technology?

>>10727890
peak contrarian
hyrule field has literally nothing in it

>>10729382
How did the inventors of high technology conceive of them?

>>10729421
anon they literally just ran the magic tingly stuff through horse hair until it glowed

>>10728998
Majoras mask and wind waker are different timelines. We also don't know how deep the giant dimensional tree at the start is. That one room with the dead butlers son goes down so far you can't even see the bottom.

>>10729483
>it's a different timeline
>that means australia doesn't exist

>>10729562
According to Nintendo's logic, yes.

Literally just Narnia

>>10730714
So Majora's Mask is an isekai?

>>10728910
Absolutely hylic.

>>10731980
In some way

>>10728805
>>10729407
Right, the linear overworld of MM is a huge step down from how OoT's feels like a living breathing world.

>>10732337
Kek

>>10731980
Its literally a different dimension.

>>10733371
>Termina is a mysterious place, and the people Link meets here may look vaguely familiar at first glance.
Pure soul.

Zoomer doesn't have the attention span to play Majora's Mask.

>>10728910
I wish there was a way to play the N64 version of MM with the 3DS's QoL improvements.

>>10733453
Kill yourself.

>>10728910
>The 3DS MM is a much more 'honest' game because of this, and people hate it because its much better at laying bare the good and bad qualities of the game
People complain about it because went out of the way to change things for no reason. The boss fights going from dynamic battles to typical use the dungeon item and find the weakpoint is one of those things. We obviously all know about the zora swimming and goron nerf which are both retarded and examples of the developers misunderstanding their own game. The qol improvements are nice, but I don't know why they made it so you can't save with the song of time, because it ended up fucking me over at least twice

>>10733538
>goron nerf
I've heard about Zora nerf but not Goron nerf. Is the Zora and Goron combat any better in MM3D? In the original the Goron was a total bitch in combat and the Zora's hit range was so short that trying to strike an opponent was likelier to give you touch damage

>Razor Sword will only be "razored" for one hundred strikes, then it will turn back to normal
>then it will turn back to normal

wtf I literally never used this thing because I was afraid of having no sword

>>10735297
This post confuses me, did you talk to the smith, read his dialogue, and go "oh never mind"?
Did you never do the gold dust quest?

>>10698926
maybe the real masks were the ones we put in to acquire friends

>>10699023
>Deku race, I'm going to spend the next week coming up with racial slurs for them
share some

>>10699794
wtf? are you saying dinosaurs are fictional?

>>10736517

>>10717261
Top kek

>>10735519
I never used it and just went straight for the gilded sword.

>>10736594
well done

>>10736594
>missing f*****

>>10736520
>oh my science, p-please believe my story about creatures that roamed the earth six gorillion years ago, someone found some totally real skeleton fragments as proof

>>10718020
Many people had a bad reaction to it. Many didn't like the timer and it was pretty disappointing after OoT. People wanted OoT2 but what they got was some bizarre sidequest with none of the same characters

>>10698891
The second time was really on you.

>>10736953
Oh I see.
To be fair I could see why you thought that, since thats how the giant's knife in OOT works.

OoT is for normies, Majora is for people who don't like mid games

>>10701861
how do I unsubscribe from this blog?

>>10704414
yes, you’re retarded bc you replied to obvious bait

>>10698891
>Why do people think MM>OoT?
because its basically OOT but with more stuff.
>bbut OOT is better!
so is MM, its like trying to pick your favorite flavor of icecream.

>>10739526
OoT is chocolate ice cream, and MM is dog shit.

>>10739526
No Anon, you don't understand. You MUST make a choice, and then vehemently shit on the other game, making sure to pick a fight with anyone else who has an opinion that's not yours for this thread.
Then in the next thread you have a different opinion and start the cycle all over.

>>10737000
I'm pretty sure that's what you call a group of deku

>>10739529
MMfags love starting cycles over, so no surprise there.

>>10739553
Yeah, now next thread you call out OoTfags for backtracking or some dumb bullshit.

>>10737000
>>10739551
I lost.

>>10739520
You don't get sarcasm, do you anon?

>>10740162
Huh?