/vr/ - Retro Games

They were thinking that 20 years later a fat nerd would make a video about it defending Mega Drive's limited and dark colors.

>>10688668
Meanwhile the SNES can display 256, and then you see what they did with them in comparison.

>>10688682
Top looks way better. Bottom has less colors but looks like a cluttered mess. Definitely not something aesthetically tuned for platforming.

>>10688682
Top has enough contrast to clearly see Mario in relation to enemies and other hazards, bottom is a mess that blends together visually

>>10688668
>64 colors
that's 48 colors too many

>>10688754
based

>>10688668
Name 65 colors. If you can't do it then you must not need them that bad

>>10688681
/thread

What were they thinking?

Retards console warring? What are they thinking!?

>>10688781
They were thinking that this would be the hardware of the best-selling console that generation.

>>10688786
It’s a good thing you can play sales numbers. It’s important to subsequent generations to preserve console sales for everyone to enjoy

>>10688807
When people think 4th gen, they think of Super Mario World, Super Metroid, Link to the Past, The Final Fantasy games, Chrono Trigger, DKC, on and on. I suppose the autistic furries out there think of Sonic but that's it from sega.

>>10688815
Yep, those certainly are the games that people here are obsessed about and never seem to be able to move past.

>>10688747
>Top looks way better. Bottom has less colors but looks like a cluttered mess. Definitely not something aesthetically tuned for platforming.

>>10688815
>When I think
ftfy, tendiefaggot

>>10688815
Neither Link to the Past or Super Metroid were popular to such degrees back then, and they benefit a lot from revisionism and the special treatment given to Nintendo games. Magazines of that time would often publish pictures sent by their young readers, and most of them were about Sonic, Mario or Street Fighter 2.

>>10688786
They went from 98% market share to less than 50% before squeaking past Sega at the very end. That's a failure.

>>10688875
The mental gymnastics /vr/ spergs will do to try and defame the SNES is getting ridiculous.

The color limitations on Genesis definitely impacted games ported to the platform hard.

>>10688747
>>10688753
Can't tell if trolling or genuine cope, but while SMW is not unpleasant to look at, it still looks very primitive due to being a launch title. Sonic looks more impressive because it was released 3 years into the console's life and they had experience with the hardware (Genesis launch titles also look like ass)
I'm not saying SNES games look bad (Super Metroid is incredible looking), I'm just saying Sonic looks better than SMW

The Genesis released like 3 years before the SNES and primarily competed against the NES.

>>10688786
>best-selling
The Mega Drive has had unofficial clones since the 1990's. Those clones were the predominant way to play in countries such as Russia, Brazil, or all of eastern Europe, and those sales figures are not counted officially. The SNES only had clones in recent years. Adding in clones, more people were playing Mega Drive than SNES, and it wasn't even close, it was by far the more popular system, and it remains so to this day.

>>10688753
This. I like Genesis library but it has a distinct ugliness to it and is visually very dark, grungy, and messy.

>>10688815
Because those all contain IPs which retards require to even be able to interact with the medium at all. An f-14 Tomcat isn't an IP so that's why faggots uplift shitty ass Alex Kid when it should be forgotten and act as if Afterburner II were mediocre.

>>10688668
The bigger issue is less the amount of colors on screen, but instead the number of colors in the master palette.

That said, a good artist can generally produce good results when they work with the limitations of the system instead of against it. See any of Pyron's color improvement hacks for examples.

>>10688763
how did he do this, bros ...

>>10688957
SOVL vs Soulless

>>10688957
Even snes could only do 16 colours per tile so you had stuff like rise of the robots which look bad vs the pc version

>>10689117
Neo Geo has that look on many of the early games too.

>>10688754
Its only double that of the sms which seems bad but on sms but you only have 3 colours if you want to make somthing greyscale on that.

>>10688957
soul vs soulless
next

>>10689117
pretty much every game in the library after 1991 looked good, and pretty much every game after 1993 looked phenomenal

>>10688763
no u

>>10689158
>Even snes could only do 16 colours per tile
Technically backgrounds could do 2bpp, 4bpp, and 8bpp depending on what modes you were in, so 4, 16, and 256 colors. Sprites though were always 4bpp though. Though 8bpp was kind of useless as the SNES still only had 64KB of VRAM like the Genesis and TurboGrafx16. So if you try to do 8bpp for backgrounds you're going to use almost all of your VRAM just to display 1 screens worth of unique tiles.

>>10688763
Most based anon on vr right here

>>10688820
this board isn't for moving past. fuck the future, i wish to relive my favored decade again and again until death

>>10689082
>poorfags
they would buy a snes if they could afford one

>>10689258
The Mega Drive has always been cheaper, and higher quality, both in terms of hardware, and in terms of games library, quite the bargain put forth by based Sega.

>>10688763
terry is that you?

>>10689147
The arcade color hack for Midnight Resistance is amazing!

>>10689036
It's honestly kind of amazing how the SNES managed to come out so late and still be worse than the aged Genesis in several areas. The games were definitely far better overall, but one really has to wonder what the hell they were doing when making the thing.

>>10689589
And it's more expensive too. It seems that there was a ton of mismanagement throughout its development. They cancelled many stuff such as the Sony CD addition, NES backwards compatibility, and SuperFX inclusion in the NA release.

>>10689589
Maybe it's one of those PSX vs N64 things all over again?
Despite releasing years later, Nintendo insists on selling a console both cheap and without taking losses.
In the end you get a mixed bag of capabilities that is hardly a big step up from the rest of the market

>>10688682
I was watching Console wars, and the SEGA marketing dude said the exact same thing lmao

>>10688781
Everything in that image is subtly wrong. It confuses system clock with cpu clock, mistakes slow ROM speeds for ROM+RAM in general and doesn't understand that 1.79MHz is for serial device access so that CPU+serial run at the same speed so you don't have to waste cycles on polling and latching.

>>10689671
Basically, yes. SEGA got repeatedly fucked in later years because they didn't own everything in their hardware designs. They were stuck licensing stuff from Yamaha for instance meaning that they were always cutting checks for every piece of hardware which limited how cheap they could make stuff. Nintendo on the other hand didn't pick the best hardware, but they made sure it was theirs or at least they had exclusivity on the design.
The Motorola 68k was undeniably better than the RICOH 65c816, but Nintendo had a helluva deal on those through RICOH whereas SEGA was stuck paying for the most popular CPU at the time so there was no incentive for discount rates.

>>10688668
I'm pretty sure I just saw that in a Youtube video title. Kill yourself.

>>10688682
SNES has different background layer modes with various restrictions

>>10689594
>SuperFX inclusion
Are you thinking of the DSP? That was cancelled before the JP release.
Including the SFX in the NTSC console would have been impossible. The console launched before the chip was even ready. And besides, the chip was designed to sit between the address bus and the cart ROM. It would have had to have been redesigned to work as an internal device which would have meant designing two chips and two versions of star fox that could deal with the discrepancy, and then they'd have to release an on-chip cart for SFX2 games anyway. That's basically why they chose not to include the DSP as well, figuring it was just a cost with limited upside when they could just use whatever chips they wanted on the cart.

>>10688781
is that why so many games don't have more than two animated enemies on screen at a time and it's always doubles of the same guy?

>>10688681
>20 years later
Its actually closer to 35 anon..

>>10688668
That's twice as many as the Amiga and Master System and four times as many as the Atari ST or EGA-equipped PCs. By late 80s standards, 64 colors is a lot.

>>10688668
Sega Lard X releases video about Genesis and how its 64 color limitation is a non issue
Moments later some streched out asshole asking the same question on 4chan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lA-0cJH3NQ

Genesis was far better for fast-paced action games. SNES couldn't even run Super Ghouls n' Ghosts well, Alien Soldier would CHUG.

>>10689256
This. Imagine going on /vr/ to "broaden your horizons" lmao.

>>10689795
Everytime

>>10689795
Related, only a few days before.
>>10671469

>>10688957
it gets a few more colors for free with is very special composite video hardware

have any comparisons of console games instead of copes for bumpkins who can't just walk to an arcade?

>>10688682
Why is the sky so dark in both games

Genesis had blast processing.

>>10688949
Not that anon but how is he wrong? Going from absolute domination down to half of the market share signals a huge mistep by Nintendo.

>>10689936
How? Nintendo was unable to keep the competition out of stores and were forced to share the same space with someone else.

>>10689743
Usually that tends to be because of the sprite limit. Nintendo were adamant that SNES games didn't exhibit sprite flicker and they'd fail your submission if they saw any in regular gameplay. A few missing lines on massive explosions and such was okay, but if a main character fell off in gameplay, that was a fail. So devs got a bit too conservative.
You can see it with the enemy limit patch to Final Fight 2. It shows the game engine and hardware can handle more enemies but you will get flicker from time to time, and that was too risky.

>>10688668
From what I recall reading there was a quote from the console designer stating it was a trade-off; they cut back on the amount of CRAM (color memory) in exchange for some hardware feature to enable Master System compatibility. Something similar with happened to the hardware scaling they planned to implement on the VDP, but I think there it was a matter of not being able to fit the components for it on the chip. Earlier consoles were all about making all sorts of little compromises to cut down on cost/size

>>10690662
*Or maybe they just cheaped out on the CRAM, I might be conflating it with the hardware sprite scaling

>>10688668
Some sacrifices had to be made to get this thing to sell for $189 when it launched. The Genesis has a Motorola 68000 CPU in it. The Sharp X68000 PC in Japan was selling for $3,000 at the time and the Neo-Geo that released a year later, also with a 68000 CPU, sold for $650.

>>10690662
Master System compatibility was truly one of the worst engineering mistakes in history. The genesis would have been much better with 128 colors.

>>10690758
The planned famicom compatibility gimped the sfc and its CPU in the same way.

>>10690758
In hindsight yeah, but even gimped the amount of colors the Mega Drive could display were more or less comparable to the competition at the time (PC Engine I think has more colors available but can display less on screen at once?), so I guess they considered compatibility to be a better selling point at launch. Also it's a continuation of a feature that the Master System started in Japan, since that has backwards compatibility with the SG-1000.

>>10690781
PC Engine can display a lot more. Also, the genesis usually can't even do 64 colors in practice, since its split over 4 palettes and you will often need to waste colors with duplicates.

>>10690803
Fair enough, I guess I misremembered

>>10690769
It gimped it in a much worst way, since the end result is a system with a much too low resolution and a CPU which is not cut out for action games at all, and you don't even actually have NES compatibility. At least with the Mega Drive, it could still play Master System titles, and the entire quality of it's library wasn't jeopardised to achieve that.

>>10688957
You wouldn't have noticed that on a CRT through composite back in the day. And Genesis couldn't even generate S-Video signal, so "muh RGB" is not an argument.

>>10689795
Is he our guy?

>>10688668
>What were they thinking?

>>10690826
Unironically how the fuck did rendering ranger do it, just euro autism?

I know this image is bullshit, but can someone tell me more? I remember seeing a thread some years ago and an anon got into detail what is exactly wrong with the image

>>10688682
>release title versus game released nearly 3 years into console's lifespan
alrighty then

>>10691269
Very few SNES games used the 512x448 mode. The standard was 256x224.

>>10691269
if you even approached the sprite limit on SNES, you'd end up with horrible slowdown

>>10688747
>>10688753
tendie cope is always hilarious to read

>>10690676
Anon, the 68000 was selling for $15 a piece in fucking 1984. X68000 and Neo Geo were expensive as fuck because of the graphics processors and fuckton of SRAM, not because of the CPU. Nintendo likely wanted to implement backwards compatibility with the NES, but they failed or decided not to in the end.

>>10691269
>512x448
Most games run at half of that resolution (or a quarter since we're talking pixels).
>speed
Doesn't show the full picture, but the NES CPU had the more cycle efficient codes while the 68000 was superior at pretty much everything else. The SNES needed a cart DSP to run Vectorman for example because the CPU was slow and had no math function whatsoever. It was however easier to use an external chip with the SNES though, it had a bus router specifically to address the extra chip and give it direct access to the entirety of the console's RAM and processors. Hence the SuperFX games were cheaper than Sega's SVP game.

>>10691364
>The SNES needed a cart DSP to run Vectorman for example
Did you mean "would have needed" or is there some homebrew Vectorman port for SNES I'm unaware of?

>>10688668
>https://youtu.be/_lA-0cJH3NQ
Sega Lord X's voice sounds like the a american Euro mutt mixed with a negroid. Basically the typical american on /vr/.

>>10688747
From an art-design standpoint, you're laughably retarded. Bottom has better contrast, better enemy design, better background, better sky, better juxtaposition between the foreground....Mario World is a better "game", but Sonic 100% looks better and you'd have to be a downy retard or hopelessly addicted to copium to disagree.

>>10691380
I need to turn off the volume when this piece of trailer trash talks. We need better quality retro game youtubers.

>>10691380
Sorry bro tendie tubers just don’t cut it anymore, I know you’re coping

>>10691395
>art-design

lol lmao even

>>10691380
He's just a fat american, looks like the Michelin man.
https://youtu.be/_Us4wn-zC_E?si=tOp_g3EAZTtLT5ke&t=109

Just look at these fatass hands, MS designed the Duke with him in mind.

>>10691269
The main issues with the SNES sprite numbers are as follows:

- You only have 4 Sprite sizes to choose from, 8x8, 16x16, 32x32, and 64x64.
- Of those sizes you can only use 2 at any given time.
- Sprite tiles are limited to the first 16KB of VRAM
- You cannot update VRAM during active scan.
- You cannot update the OAM table during active scan.
- High priority sprites are dropped first when the sprite per scanline limit is reached.

This basically shoots the SNES in the foot when it comes to how it handles sprites in comparison to the other 2 systems of it's generation. You're already severely crippled with how much VRAM you can use for sprites while the Genesis and PC-Engine can both use their entire amount of VRAM for sprite tiles if they wanted to. Being limited to 2 sprite sizes at a time with far fewer to choose from adds another layer of complexity onto the already tight VRAM budget. Throw in the inability to update VRAM or the OAM table during active scan and you start to have a real problem. You're options become use small sprite sizes to save as much VRAM space as you can, and blow through your OAM entry limit, or use large sprites, but then blow through your VRAM budget.

Meanwhile the Genesis can use any sprite size from 8x8 up to 32x32 at any time, can use all of it's VRAM for sprite tiles, can update VRAM during active scan, and can also repurpose sprites that were already drawn in it's Sprite Allocation Table to draw another sprite further down the screen. PC-Engine can do all this as well and is even more flexible when it comes to updating VRAM during active scan. They both also drop the lower priority sprites first when they hit their per scanline limit, allowing for them to use sprites to draw an entire additional scrolling background layer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iq8nQ2Bd80

>>10691687
>- Sprite tiles are limited to the first 16KB of VRAM
They can be moved in vram, lots of games have them in different places. Doesn't really matter too much though, since you're still limited to only 16kb total of sprite graphics space.
I'm not going to pretend the SNES doesn't have it the worst when it comes to sprites for its generation, though. You missed mentioning that the sprite sizes have to be square in VRAM on the SNES, too, not horizontal slices like on the Genesis, so even DMAing sprite frames is potentially costly, especially with larger sprites.

>>10690662
>they cut back on the amount of CRAM (color memory) in exchange for some hardware feature to enable Master System compatibility

this has to be one of the stupidest /vr/ memes.

>>10688682
Top looks too cartoony. Bottom looks way better!

>>10688682
>comparing launch title to a game 3 years into the systems lifespan

>>10688668
>What were they thinking?
"limitations breed creativity"

>>10688815
>The Final Fantasy games
kek
in japan sure. but japan also bought goyslop like the derby stallion series

>>10688874
Link to the Past was pretty big, but I don't remember anyone talking about Super Metroid

>>10688668
But it has blast processing!!!!!

>>10692338
>Blast p
processing
Which is in fact an enhanced color mode. Checkmate Nintendrones.
https://youtu.be/rvvL6S5Buiw?si=Yi54UKmo9QYqiBNv

At the end of the day skill is more important than number of colors. We can compare good looking genesis and snes games and see how competitive they are.

>>10693001
Not bad for 64 colors.

>>10688668
It was released in 1988, they were competing against the Famicom which could only display 25 colors at a time (from a palette of 53).

Your statement is also slightly wrong. It could only display 61 different colors at once, but it had a palette of 512 colors to choose from.

>>10693003
I didn't know about Flink, screens look really good

>>10688763
nice

>>10688781
nothing wrong with it.
>>10691269
comparing a 16/32bit cpu to an 8/16-bit cpu is extremely retarded to begin with.
>>10691364
factual
>>10693012
you could change colours as the screen draws giving an illusion you're using way more colours than should be possible.

>>10688668
>we want to make a competitive 1989 console but spend as little on it as possible
Only the TG16 had more colors on a TV machine, but it was far inferior in every other respect.

>>10689082
>adding in console clones to boost hardware sales
Please don’t cope like this it makes sega enthusiasts seem pathetic

>>10692004
Yes the best comparison should had been yoshi's island and sonic 3

>>10689082
If you include clones in shithole countries, Famicom/NES is easily one of the best selling systems ever.

What Sega games are yall playing today?

>>10693481
It was the only Nintendo console that was actually decent, and 90% of that has nothing to do with Nintendo themselves.

>>10689082
>The Mega Drive has had unofficial clones since the 1990's
so?
>The SNES only had clones in recent years
that's because the patents for nes and snes expired ~2011. i swear to god you people on this board have down syndrome or lived next to a lead smelter. i

>>10688874
who the fuck cares. no one knew bach when he was alive yet his name is synonymous with baroque music

>>10688668
>>10688681
Kys schizo

>>10689730
This

>>10693507
anon is right.
>Neither Link to the Past or Super Metroid were popular to such degrees back then
nobody gave a fucking shit back then. you had a new generation of fat toddlers arrive in the late 90s and 2000s that love to rewrite history to satisfy the raging voices created by schizophrenia that tell them to write about how everyone loved these games and were playing them all the time. it's a good thing internet archives exist because zoomies would have us believe banjo and kazoo or whatever it was called was as popular as pacman or space invaders.

>>10688874
>Magazines of that time would often publish pictures sent by their young readers, and most of them were about Sonic, Mario or Street Fighter 2.
factual.

>>10693483
alien syndrome arcade. game filters me so fucking hard that it's unreal. i can get to the boss of level 2, he rapes me with brain blob things every time and i die.

>>10693405
>seem

>>10693505
>so?
So the SNES didn't "outsell" the Mega Drive, and the Mega Drive was significantly more popular, which is how it remains to this day. Try to keep up with the discussion.

>>10693701
>Try to keep up with the discussion.
And a garbage one by the way, as with every console warring thread.

>>10688682
This, most Genesis titles from decent developers hold up just as well, if not better, than most SNES titles from around the same time. It had a stellar hardware when it came out and held up for quite a long while.

>>10691572
yeah, they have more contrast, show their abilities on the spot, are easier to detect and look really good.
>>10689735
sonic 1 by correct use of all the backgrounds with changes to it and background sprites too,
>>10693505
the real reason was that the sound and graphics board were propietary so they weren't something of general use, the mega drive uses general arcade parts of the time with some tweaks, it's a very affordable and functioning system thanks to that too.

>>10692002
Agreed. Sonic 1> SMW

>>10694050
i had a Sega* as a child, because my parents were divorced, and i was envious of anyone who had Mario World instead of Sonic. i played it any chance i got.

*No one called it Genesis back then. That's sunday school shit which is unfun and no one was aware of other Sega consoles because they flopped so hard here

>>10694068
Sega promoted Sonic 1 by putting it next to Super Mario World and having kids try both, they were that confident that Sonic was better.

>>10694162
I have bad news for those kids if they bought it.

>>10694068
it got called genesis by the name being there tard. play some sor 2 and be happy instead of putting trauma in your personal judgement 20 years later.

>>10694513
>>10694068
see things without a bias and accept that the genesis is good on all manners, even super nintendo enjoyers declare the sega genesis at the same level as the super nintendo.

>>10694516
sega genesis fans call the super nintendo at the same level as well, even if i have to say that the hardware the games ran was shitty, the games are excellent the hardware is not.

>>10688668
Haha I watched the Sega Lord X video too, anon! *high fives and hugs u*

On a serious note, the Sega has very appealing bright colors in its games while the SNES has appealing detailed colors in its games. Competition made for some great systems back then, and we all win now.

>>10694525
And I will catch ya next time

>>10694516
>even super nintendo enjoyers declare the sega genesis at the same level as the super nintendo.
No they don't, and that's the problem. It's people touting terrible baby games as though they are the absolute top of the 16-bit era, when in reality, they aren't even close. The 16-bit era was the finest era of gaming we have ever known, chock to the brim full of quality games with tons of action and cool effects. The SNES had basically no contribution to that, mainly because of it's shit hardware which simply could not handle those types of games. SNES "enjoyers" are not singing the praises of the Mega Drive, PC Engine, Neo Geo, and so on, rather, they are only interested in trying to pull those games down in order to artificially elevate their unimpressive, slow baby games as the "only ones that matter". Thankfully, more people are coming to the realisation that the SNES really isn't very impressive, has aged like milk, and foregoing it for the litany of other better options.

>>10694608
*its

>>10694608
What a retard

>>10694068
I had a model 1 Sega Genesis and a SNES back then and guess what? I enjoyed playing Sonic 1 way more than SMW. The graphics, the music, and the game play made me a Sonic fan instantly. BTW, real owners of the Sega Genesis didn't call it "Sega". We called Genesis or Sega Genesis.

>>10694608
Any day now... people will stop liking SNES... just one more post and it'll happen.

>>10695019
Not likely and I say that as a Sega Chad.

>>10694608
Sega offered inferior versions of arcade games.

Nintendo delivered unique experiences.

>>10688668
>>10688681
That Sega Lord X video also focuses only on the best of the best, rather than the common title. I agree that the 64 colour limit wasn't a big issue; however, the real issue was WHICH 64 colours? The common Mega Drive game had really crushed darks, garish reds, pillow shading, and strange greys and maroons. Rarely would you see a pastel aesthetic or a muted colour scheme done any justice.

>>10695321
Super SWIV vs Mega SWIV

>>10694608
Sega fan boys negligence that the Genesis didnt had slow downs or games with shitty frame rates like the entire road rash franchise:

Since the SNES are producing more colors on screen with translucent effects the picture will be always morde demanding to process.

But muh dur bigger resolution, yeah more pixels with the same color pallete full of ditchering and grainy artwork LMAO.

Try taking a screenshot of the same game on both consoles and check wich one will have more size

https://youtu.be/gJA7Dq2Auqc?si=aeQxEwcTB1STFvnE

>>10695737
>the Genesis didnt had
That's not how English works.

>>10695737
There is a patch these days that optimizes the code to make RR a bit smoother, still not great though. Main reason for the slowdown is the software sprite scaling. The game is quite impressive for the hardware.
For the rest I really wonder why people keep going through the same schoolyard fights on (retro) consoles. Don't you (or the snes shitters in here) ever get tired of that?

>>10695776

Yes there are some really rasters tricks going on, the game it self is quite good and fun, I'm just pointing this out because this guy keeps spamming these threads with tons of disinformation.

There are some patches to fast rom on SNES that improves the frame rate.

>>10695785
>thinks "itself" is two words
Weird that someone who supposedly cares about disinformation speaks English like a retarded toddler.

>>10695737
linked video is why i always envied SNES kids

>>10695737
>like the entire road rash franchise
SNES wouldn't even able to run Road Rash without an extra RISC chip.

>>10695932
You envy washed out colors and muffled music?

>>10696010
muted colours are nice as well, not everything needs to look like speccy games

>>10691000
you absolutely would you stupid mongaloid

>>10693701
anon kept up with the discussion, you seem to want a different answer that doesn't make you look like a complete retard.

>>10693994
>the real reason was that the sound and graphics board were propietary
it's all proprietary. that doesn't stop bootleggers. they don't give a fuck about that shit.
>the mega drive uses general arcade parts
68000 and z80 are common cpus found in millions of things, not just arcades. nothing is interchangeable with the genesis from arcades. nothing. it has things in common with sega's system16 boards but genesis was never as capable as they were. consider giving up fentanyl.

>>10696008
would barely run it with an extra risc chip. the 65816 was a trash cpu that was smashed by a motorola released in the 1970s.

>>10688957
>>10691000
To simulate:

>>10696045
>anon kept up with the discussion
Neither you nor that other anon offered any refutation to the fact that the Mega Drive sold far more total units when bootlegs are included, and thus, was the far more popular system, which it remains to this day. This is because you can't.

>>10688681
He's way too sensitive about his midwit takes. If you make a controversial video you'll get controversial responses. Sega consoles are too fucking old to still get offended by another opinion

>>10696086
>Neither you nor that other anon offered any refutation to the fact that the Mega Drive sold far more total units when bootlegs are included, and thus, was the far more popular system
that isn't being denied, dumbfuck. it simply doesn't matter if bootlegs existed or not, it was still selling and hugely popular. since you can't fucking read i've had to restate it in blog form. you dumb fuck monkeys think someone bootlegging your console is a sign of success. it wasn't a success for sega. they were suing everyone for years over such systems until the patents ran out. you fucking retards need to stop eating lead paint and trying to start arguments with strangers because your schizophrenia forces you to reply with inane bullshit.

>>10696106
>it simply doesn't matter if it sold more
Okay.

>>10696106
>it wasn't a success for sega
I see, you must be a Sega shareholder. I am not a shareholder, so I don't give a shit whether it was a financial success for Sega as a company.
Read the discussion again:
>>10688786
>>10689082
>>10693505
>>10693701
>>10696045
>>10696086
Read it carefully this time. The point being made is that the SNES did not "outsell" the Mega Drive, because bootlegs are not counted in official console sales. "Best selling console" is only an important metric to people whom are not Sega shareholders such as myself because they measure a console's overall popularity and appeal, which is why bootlegs should be counted. You can get as irrationally upset at this basic observation as you want, but it doesn't mean you have offered any refutation to the points being made. Which, you still have not. Because there is none to offer.
>>10696045
>fentanyl
Projection?

>>10696058
Like this it just looks slightly worse. I'm not sure there's a point for it when the arcade versions exists.

>>10696008
https://youtu.be/DYSc6OHA7fs?si=i0khBWEX5Gtvw5zI

Just like the Sega Genesis wouldnt run F-Zero , since the Top Gear port runs and sounds worse than the SNES

The N64 was a failure according to some but sold as much as the Genesis LMAO

Adding clone or third party consoles that came years after tua SEGA didn't get a dime for it.

>>10688763
i want to believe

>>10688668
>It’s 1989 and this is acceptable.
>A larger amount of colors would require us to use more expensive components and need to increase the cost of the product.
>The graphics are great and won’t benefit much more from additional colors as long as we use the colors intelligently.

>>10696737
>Adding clone or third party consoles that came years after tua SEGA didn't get a dime for it.
There sure is a lot of Sega shareholders in this thread. Again, I don't care about Sega's bottom line, because I am not a Sega shareholder. I'm only interested in which systems were the most popular, which bootleg console sales are a factor for. There is no rational reasoning for anybody to argue that bootleg hardwares "don't count" unless they're main concern is Sega's profit margins.
>The N64 was a failure according to some but sold as much as the Genesis LMAO
You're once again comparing a console with hundreds of bootleg clones over decades (tens of millions, if not hundreds of extra sales unaccounted for) versus a console with no bootleg clones to this day (equals zero sales unaccounted for). The Mega Drive outsold both the SNES and the N64, and more people were enjoying it than either of those hardwares. That's why the Mega Drive is massively more popular than either to this day.

>>10688668
Actually it's worse. It's 4 palettes 16 colors each, where color 0 is transparancy. So even without some magic like shadows, pallete changing mid-frame or use of cram bug to draw you should be good to get a good picture. For example, you should use both layers and some sprites to draw a picture.

>>10696895
Actually yes, good point. Never thought about that. Same true for NES. When we are talking about actual userbase, we should include bootlegs.

>>10696895
>The Mega Drive outsold both the SNES and the N64, and more people were enjoying it than either of those hardwares.
the absolute state of your delusion
there are maybe 5 good genesis games. and no im not a nintendo fanboy, i havent purchased any of their products since the gaycube

>>10697178
But how do you even measure bootleg sales? I see some claim it was 'a lot' but that doesn't quantify shit and is just based on some gut feeling.
But then again that anon is just a retard shitting up the board

>>10688668
And yet it has more colorful looking games than the SNES...

>>10688824
Sonic does look way more vibrant and colorful. Pic poster is a moron.

>>10688957
Why did you post a SEGA CD game?

>>10693880
Genesis action games are what generally hold up better. I say this as someone that has nostalgia for both systems.

>>10688681
And I WILL catch you next time.

>>10693405
There's an important distinction you are missing. Sega had less financial muscle and licensed their rights to clone manufacturers, which makes them legit and countable. On balance, the firecore based clones are utter shit so some anons WILL still fall on the side of their team, which is the part that's actually pathetic. Seems to match your type btw.

>>10694608

>>10688957
Those were just shitports

>>10696058
That's just a bilinear filter you shit smoking tard.

>>10688668
>Sega
>Thinking
Lol

>>10696098
I've concerned trolled his videos a couple of times and he actually replied all hot and bothered.

>>10688763
HOLY AESTHETIC

>>10696892
> A larger amount of colors would require us to use more expensive components
Not really. Looking at the die shots of the VDP, the cram is not that big. You should be able to get away with doubling it.

>>10697440
That's why it's a simulation, you shit smoking tard.

>>10688682
I'm pretty sure that more world stores a lot of its graphics as 3bpp instead of the usual 4bpp just to save a bit of space, this makes the games look less colorful as a result.

>>10689902
The sky was bluer in the 90s.

>>10696892
>It's now 1994 and this isn't acceptable.
>They could have easily had more CRAM in 1988 but rushed the die cutdown to get it to manufacturing because they wanted hardware scaling and Master System support at the same time and decided to keep the MS support even though no one but europeans cared about the MS.
>The best artists on any end of the world are resorting to insane shit with new types of dither techniques to try and get just a bit more color out of composite video.
>Nintendo's hardware was future proofed enough they could probably sell their system all the way into 2000, they even have computer rendered graphics in games now that look great while every time we've tried that it turns out grainy and color banded due to needing to dither everything.
>Don't get me started on the sound either, the Yamaha sound was cutting edge in the 80s but now it sounds like every budget PC ever while the SNES sounds like a Gravis with audio panning and reverb.
>Even Michael Jackson and his production teams snubbed us when just four years ago they loved the work done with Moonwalker.
>Now Sega Japan wants us to work with this weird cart slot adapter to get more performance out of the system when we can just wait for the Saturn, it's not our fault the Mega Drive wasn't that much of a success in its homeland.

>>10688682
Green Hill Zone might be the most impressive first level in all of vidya. Crafted in just the right way to showcase speed, color and fidelity. Check out that 3D illusion in the hillside!
The sprite work really is amazing, everything has a pseudo 3D shading effect to it and really makes everything pop.
I think SMW looks great but man when you put them side by side, Sonic really does come off as the more impressive looking game. The shading on the sprites really deepens the image on screen.

>>10691395
I don't think Mario World is a better necessarily
But it is longer

>>10691572
Sonic shits all over Mario when it comes to art design
It's not even arguable
There is a reason Sonic was the first video game character to be featured in Macy's Thanksgiving Parade and not Mario

>>10691269
The SNES resolution
SNES games were 256x224
512x224, 512x448i were rarely used modes

>>10696737
Fuck off you revisionist tranny
The Genny sold 40 million
https://web.archive.org/web/20141231020737/http://www.sega-16.com/2013/02/interview-joe-miller/

>>10698532
>Even Michael Jackson and his production teams snubbed us when just four years ago they loved the work done with Moonwalker.
MJ literally asked to compose for Sonic 3
The whole ''he didn't like the soundchip'' shit is most likely complete bollocks

Zoomer thread.

Do people make homebrews for the Genesis? I know they do for the Saturn but what about for the Genesis?

>>10699603
It's the most popular console for modern homebrews, eclipsing the once dominant but now stagnant NES, and it's only continuing to become an increasingly popular console for aspiring retro developer's.

>>10699650
Someone told me about Kai Magazine software or something. Any other small companies like that?

>>10698917
Maybe he assumed Sonic 3 was going to be on the Sega CD. After all Sonic CD had just come out, and it's not like he understood that the base Genesis had a wider marketshare than an add-on with a more limited installbase. The true details of what went down are rather fuzzy though, we just have a couple basic stories from some of his producers who worked with him on Sonic 3.

>>10699650
SGDK is great and every retard can write in C and 68k is pretty fast. And it is a nice system for autism overall.

>>10701495
Eurojank + Emulator fuckery

>>10701504
>emulator fuckery
The MiSTer?

>>10688682
>launch title for SNES
vs
>game released almost 3 years after Genesis launch

unfair comparison

>>10702471
Yes

>>10691282
>>10692004
>>10702754
Sega does what Nintendon't

>>10703031
What game is middle top?

>>10696425
that game uses pre-scaled sprites and switches them out depending on distance, and a flat ground with flat gameplay. Road Rash does real time sprite scaling and the road has continuous hills and valleys as well as the ability to jump with the bike when speeding off of hills or when hitting bumps on the road (or another biker) at a fast speed.

>Just like the Sega Genesis wouldnt run F-Zero ,
homebrewers already ported the f-zero engine to the Genesis, as I recall the only limitation was that you had to use SRAM carts because it needed the extra memory to do the mode 7 in software. but it's still cheaper than needing an entire Super FX to be able to do scaling.

they also ported the first level of Starfox to Genesis.

>>10688682
I'm pretty sure there are less than 64 colors in the Mario screenshot.

>>10704595
>it's still cheaper than needing an entire Super FX to be able to do scaling
F-Zero didn't use a SFX chip you stupid dumbass

>>10688682
i still cant believe how ugly super mario world spritework looks, clearly made with CRT on their minds

>>10688682
Yeah, well, which is the better game?
Still Sonic but Mario comes close

>>10693003
I like how the lower color limit with the lack of transparency caused devs to get creative. I love the way the Genesis looks when it's using dithering to make up for it's limitations. The SNES had the advantage in terms of vibrancy, but it was a much slower system. But both had their strong points and both are phenomenal side-by-side. Anyone who disagrees just needs to get over their childhood console warring.

>>10706070
>Sonic 1 better than SMW
I would've maybe seen your point if it was like, Sonic 3 & Knuckles or something (technically two games that came out years later) but Sonic 1 is a painfully average platformer.

>>10706143
How many painfully average platformers have Sonic's robust physics?

>>10706262
The games didn't take enough advantage of said physics until 2 onwards.

1's level design is a mix of standard platformer fare and some novelty stages where they dipped their toes into what Sonic could do but never went the full mile. It feels like it's having an identity crisis between stages with how the pacing is set up.

>>10706143
Nah it's a solid platformer through and through and easy to pick up and replay.

>>10706143
>Sonic 1 is a painfully average platformer.
Mario is totally devoid of any challenge or interesting level designs, being almost entirely flat and largely lacking in enemies. Even a "painfully average platformer" is at least more interesting than that.

>>10688668
>this console is going to make the NES look like shit

That was what they were thinking anon. Unfortunately for them the SNES came out not too long after.

>>10706323
>Unfortunately for them the SNES came out not too long after.
And yet the Mega Drive still made even the SNES look like shit, with higher resolution, more sprites and sprite animations, and less slowdowns.

>>10706285
The game frequently takes advantage of the unique physics.

How is this abhorrent console warring thread still alive?

>>10696737
30 million genesis seems way too low it apparently sold around 20M in the US no way it only sold 10M in the rest of the world. Brazil alone probably sold that ammount especially if you count the tectoy versions.
I feel 40-50M is closer to the real number.

>>10698547
You forgot something you can't even see in a screenshot: the parallax effect making the water look like a 3D plane when moving

>>10706143
>Sonic 1 is a painfully average platformer.
If anyone considers Sonic 1 to be "painfully average" then they haven't played many video games, Sonic 1's better than at least 90% of the other platformers from around the same time, most video games were either bad or just dull, Sonic looked good, sounded good, had superb physics and level design that used it well, it's alright to dislike Sonic, but it's not "average".

>>10694162
they had them play the first zone, which was designed last so it's as good as Sonic 1 can be. Show them Marble Zone and it would be a different story. Playing as designed includes waits long enough to activate Sonic's boredom animation

>>10707649
I'm not even a Sonic fan and it's without question the best platformer of all time at the time of its release and until Sonic 2 came around.

RAM prices were high in the late '80s is why.

>>10706323
>the SNES came out not too long after.
2 years later is a long time.

>>10707649
The NES had been out for years by that point (The Famicom is from fucking 1983) and built up quite the library. Yes there was a lot of garbage in there as developers figured shit out in the earlier years, but even SMB3 was nearly 3 years old by the time the first Sonic game hit the scene. it really was nothing special until Sonic 2 and then 3 ironed out the kinks and expanded upon its level design philosophy. Sonic CD is a novel experiment in the grand scheme of things but such a goddamn mess that I'd call it worse than the first game in some regards.

>>10708853
If you want to claim that there are a dozen or so NES platformers better than Sonic 1 in 1991 It's fine, but if you take the whole NES library at the time and add Sonic 1 to it, it'd be on every single "Top 10 Platformers" list for sure, there being a few platformers on a similar level and/or better than Sonic in 1991 doesn't make Sonic 1 "nothing special" or "average", that's the point I'm making.

>>10706416
don't interrupt they're going to win soon
once this war is finally over then
ahhhhh imagine the beautiful peace we will have
GO, COURAGEOUS SOLDIERS, GO
AND WIN THIS WAR AT LAST