/vr/ - Retro Games

>>10685426

>>10685426

which model is this? saw a dude selling it for cheap but couldn't find any info.

>>10685426
Curved consumer grade slotmask is what arcade cabinets had in them so that's what I prefer.

Do CRTs really shake and flicker like this through composite cable on the following:

- PS2
- Dreamcast
- Gamecube
- PS1

?

Using the crt-royale-ntsc-composite shader and it creates this shake/flicker on >=480p content whether it's actually interlaced (like PCSX2) or not (like Dolphin)

>>10685852
It should only flicker if the resolution output is 480i. Any PS1/PS2/GC/DC games outputting in 240p don't have flicker just because they're going through composite.

>>10685852
Not like that, no. The phosphor persistence and the slightly overlapping fields hid most if not all of that. The only TV I noticed it on is my XBR960 and mostly at the top and bottom edges.

>>10685852
Not at all. It depends on the size, too. Bigger sets will have more noticeable flicker.

If you're old enough to have used CRTs when you were younger, you probably watched TV in 480i and didn't notice the flicker at all.

>>10685912
>If you're old enough to have used CRTs when you were younger, you probably watched TV in 480i and didn't notice the flicker at all.

I played PS2/GC on a real CRT as a kid, which output interlaced content, but I don't remember it shaking/flickering as severely as these interlacing shaders

PS1 BIOS logo is a good example of 480i content that should shake

Although I also didn't notice or care about games like OoT running at 20fps either, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen

i helped a friend empty out his dad's old practice and we found this, he said i could have it
did i just score?

>>10686043

>>10686043
>>10686048
Looks like it tops out at 1280x1024 which is a 5:4 resolution. I recommend keeping it at 1024x768 or lower.
>https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/product/gdm-1950/manuals

>>10686043
v nice
be cognizant of the sync signal cabling

>>10686074
i dunno what any of that means

>>10686052
He could also use 1366x1024
>>10686075
If you want to use the BNC connectors (the 5 aside from the VGA), you would need to use proper sync (horizontal and vertical) you can see the markings of R, G, B, video in and horizontal and vertical sync in

Fucking about with an old Pi3 and an old 20" Trinitron and I'm surprised at how clean the signal is out of it. Outputting at 240p and using the snap deluxe shader some guy made pretty much allows every console to run at fullscreen without any noticeable distortion. It's neat> Tempted to solder on a composite out jack to my 4 now

whats like the best model of CRT monitors to have? I see some in my area for cheap and I wanna pick at least one up for my setup

>>10686212
model isn't as important as the condition and specs. Look up the horizontal frequency on any particular model to see what it can do. 30-80kHz horizontal is pretty average while high end stuff tops out at 120-130kHz

>>10686252
I've seen high scan rate VGA monitors in several different brands (Sony, Phillips, Viewsonic, HP). Seems like the main thing to look for is size. Better chance of high scan rate with a bigger monitor.

>>10686107
not bad
I was disappointed with the processing power
I wanted to run some arcade games

>>10686107
Why do you need to use a shader if you're already outputting composite to a CRT?

>>10685935
480i flicker is something you get used to when you use a CRT regularly. It's jarring if you haven't used one in a while but not a big deal once you acclimatize to it, at least for me.

>>10686328
even 240p hurts my girlfriend's eyes
we can't do actual CRT gaming for more than 30 minutes or so especially in a dark room even with a small set

>>10686329
That's normal. Make sure you get good ventilation because the fumes will make it worse

>not playing PS1 and PS2 on a Trinitron
>not playing Nintendo consoles on SHARP TVs
>not playing Xbox on an Xbox-Ready RCA
You're not really playing The Intended Way(tm)

I scored a free working commodore 1084s monitor, most likely on its last legs.
Pure black has a blue shade to it, but pure white (and anything bright) looks nearly perfect.
I tried tweaking screen voltage a bit and it helped just a tiny bit (before it had blue raster lines on pure black) and changing R,G,B gain didn't affect the pure black image at all.
Is there anything else I can do to tweak it further?

>>10686043
Without seeing a picture on it, hard to tell. Was it for medical equipment? Some of those got flogged, esp with static images, then pushed into a corner when superseded for 'just in case' and eventually forgotten. No visible burn in though.

>>10685852
>>10685889 is correct. The biggest advantage of the Dreamcast was VGA support, which avoided this problem. PS1 games were mostly 240p. Only 240p game for PS2 I can think of is Ico, which was originally intended to be a PS1 game.
>>10685890 has defective eyes.

>>10685429

Even your arcade sticks are in tate mode? That's hardcore

>>10686325
Trying to use anything but 1:1 PAR on a pi typically results in bad distortion, but 1:1 PAR also doesn't fill the screen on most games. Dude made a very basic shader that aligns the video output properly when stretched so there's only a very light horizontal filter applied, I basically only notice it in SMB1 when looking at hills and not moving. In motion you don't see it at all. Seems to work perfectly for every console and some arcade games so far. Handhelds don't play well with it but you can just configure it not to apply on some cores
https://github.com/ektgit/snap-shader-240p

>>10686589
>Was it for medical equipment?
Yeah. Gonna have to wait till I bring it home to plug it in.

>>10687161
I should give this a try. What OS do you run on your Pi?

>>10687462
just running lakka, barebones RA implementation and the old rgui frontend

>>10686607
Not everyone uses a broadcast monitor with the fields completely separated.

>>10685426

>>10686556
did you try both RGB and composite? it could just be an issue with one type of input. If it's fucked up keep it for the good parts because theres a ton of broken 1084s out there. I used the flyback out of mine on another

>>10686913
yes

>>10686365
>the fumes
someone sold you a TV that they literally literally pissed inside of

>>10685852
My 36" definitely flickers on 480i on GameCube over component. Not sure about composite.
>>10690865
It's much more noticeable toward the center of the screen.

This one is new to me, I haven't played on such a large CRT in a very long time (not since I actually learned how they worked so since childhood basically).

The TV doesn't support 480p so I'll have to see if it'll behave on 240p. Pretty happy with the set though the color is amazing. I have brightness and contrast turned down to like 50% and it's still bright and vivid.

>>10685852
480i looks great on most CRTs

Why does god always show his largest most beautiful CRTs to his most truckless soldiers?

>>10691536
That's a rear projection.

>>10691557
Is that bad?

>>10691573
Not necessarily I guess.
Now I don't know that specific model so it could be a rear projection "CRT" but I know just by the size it can't be a direct tube. I'm not aware of any tubes that ever were made in that massive size.
I would venture to guess that it looks new enough to be a normal rear projection with lamps not a CRT tube.
They're big TVs yeah but they lose a lot of the benefits that direct CRTs have.
I can't think of a reason to go for a projection vs a modern TV other than "it's kind of cool" or "it's all I have" - if someone can think of some I'm all ears.

You watch in 20 years we'll all be salivating over 56" projection TVs....

>>10691609
>can't think of a reason to go for a projection vs a modern TV
I can put stuff on top of it

>>10691573
they look like shit. they were awesome back in the day only because of the big screen

>>10691245
still comfy

>>10685426
HOW DO U DO FELLOW KIDZ

>>10688608
>>10685426

>>10691692
Your shit should be mounted to the wall at the proper viewing height, why the fuck would you sit anything on it?

>>10691609
Lightgun games are super fun on rear projection CRTs

>>10691967
agreed
room must be pretty dark though
>>10691692
kek retarded reason but they are large and thickboys
>>10691609
>we'll all be salivating
nah i got one off craigslist in 2014 for $100
they delivered it in a pickup truck
it lasted about 1 year before going out with HEAVY USE
it was during the wii\wiiU era
my baby sister and family friends spammed the shit out of it

picture quality was not great obv
but as an interim tv set it was ok
we watched the superbowl on it hahah

i would never buy one again
but it did invoke memories of playing n64 with PiP mode with my grandpa while he watched sports+golf

>>10692113
notable perk = audio quality was excellent
the audiocuckanon would be proud it had a bunch of speakers\tweeters built in
(i removed the speaker cover grille to check it out when i curbed it)

>>10691967
That's fair. I didn't think of that. Only way to have a large screen in 4:3 that works with light guns.

Unless literal projectors do? Not projection TVs just literal projectors...But those are usually pretty washed out.

>>10692124
i think there is too much lag for vintage projectors
if you used a MODERN gaymen one then it might be possible
but i dont have the space or money to blast on a 120hz+ model

>>10692113
We used to have an old 56" projection TV in our basement. got it as a gift from our neighbors who had just upgraded to a flat screen. It worked well for a while until something went out on it. Dad dismantled the insides and my brother and I used the shell as a playhouse for a while.

The screen itself was good at deflecting thrown wiimotes (we tested this) but it never actually happened accidentally to us as people seemed to claim it did.

yeah there is something comfy about them, ours had a woodgrain casing, wanna say it was like picrel, some RCA possibly or maybe Magnavox?

they also tended to put pretty decent speakers on them for built in speakers.

all in all though I like my modern flat screens and large CRTs.

I made myself a little ghetto setup at my grandma's place. It's an unused room that's mainly a storage of old shit, including some of my CRTs. I don't think it's ever been renovated, it's a full-on 80s/90s commieblock experience with old furniture and all. I gotta say it's pretty cozy, but I need to give the room a proper dusting and cleaning if I'm gonna use it more often.
Started a VII playthrough in Japanese, maybe I'll even manage to finish it before Rebirth drops.

>>10685852
not if you have a good set
mine doesn't flicker like that at all

>>10685912
Nope, smaller sets tend to have more flicker from what I've seem

>>10692478
Here's a 4K closeup. The picture on this 25" set is very nice overall. Pleasant colors and the geometry's pretty great. Convergence sucks a bit in the corners, but that's to be expected. The PS1 is hooked up via RGB, naturally.

>>10692496
And a sexy IS/Altezza from GT2. Too bad I had to resize the pic to 1440p because of the 4MB limit.

>>10685426
I got Batman 66 cause it was cheap and I like watching old stuff on my CRT.

>>10692646
i do this too but only cartoons &
clarissa explains it all

>>10692516
>>10692496
v nice anonkun
this one isnt my main set
but i like watching tapes once in awhile

>>10693107
i do apologize my phone sucks balls at filming or photographin crt
no matter what i do its ASS

>>10685852
They do somewhat, not nearly as dramatic as your webm
The image persistence on the tube make the interlacing not nearly as noticeable, but it IS still viable, even on shit TVs despite what other anons are saying.
But you need a proper 480i image to see it. That is to say, something that is actually being rendered above 240 in resolution (not counting overscan). Like high res menus off of a PSX game. While an NES's signal out is 480i, it is really more sending full frames every frame so you effectively have a 240p 60hz scan.

copped a tripp lite dp to vga adapter and a c2g vga cord (they were free bc of some reward system)
much cheaper than the startech adapter (bought it when it was 25 buckaroos off amazon)
im sure they work the same just a diff name.

i have this thing on the way. did i fuck up or will PSX/N64 look good on this? i got it because i have a square spot in my bedroom where it will fit

>>10693646
Its era appropriate, it will be fine.
Serious question out of curiosity, did you grow up with CRTs or is this a interest spurred by enjoying retro games? Not trying to shit talk, I just don't really cruse this general at all, and I just notice how many in this thread seem to know nothing about CRTs, how they actually look out side of photos, etc. Its a bit bewildering to me.

>>10693673
Yep, I played a shitton N64, Gamecube, Playstation 2, and XBOX on a giant silver Sony CRT in my parents' basement in the 90s and 00s. I recently dusted off my N64 and played a fair amount of it on a 65" OLED with an HDMI adapter, but it just looks bad...to your point though, I wouldn't have considered it as an option to revitalize my old consoles unless it were popular/discussed on /vr/

>>10693759
Thanks for the insight.
In my opinion, a TV like in your image is more appropriate for gen 3/4/5 consoles.
The nice flat screen CRTs with S-Video are really a early/mid 00s thing. Having a gen 6 console looks nicer on those since many games were being ran at 480i instead of 240p anyways during that gen.

>>10693584
alrlight. maybe im doing something wrong but the startech is better.
the cable is better (shielded) but i can get it to do high resolutions on my p1130 but all the low resolutions look spectacular

Question to veterans of CRT. I have no fucking clue what I'm talking about, so feel free to give me some feedback.

In some time I will be moving to my own place, so I'm definitely getting a CRT to play retro video games on it. I managed to connect Raspberry Pi 3 through analog connection an old CRT of a friend and the results were... alright, I guess? The main concern I had was about resolution. Some games had black thick borders around them while we were playing.

Here are my dumb questions:

1. Is raspberry Pi emulation good enough for playing on CRT or should I completely ditch that idea and just buy PS2? It's pain in the ass to setup, but I've seen people get pretty good results.
2. What CRT should I be searching for? There is an abudance of them on the web for basically free, but I don't want to drive x miles just to bring some junk home. Are there any rules of thumbs I should follow? Size/type/manufacturer/anything?
3.Let's say I managed to drive to the place and see the CRT that's satisfying. Is there a way to quickly test it before I take it? If it turns on, is it good enough of a sign that the condition is fine or should I plug something to it very quickly to see if colours/refresh rate is good?

Bonus question: I remember growing up with CRTs both as a monitor for my computer and the TV in the living room. Are there any different in terms of build, or is CRT used for PC = CRT used for movies/television (I guess first will have VGA and latter will have analog input), but anything other than that?

>>10693584
hows the latency?
i use portta and whatever other faggy adapter retrogayGB recommended on their site
one uses voltage the other is passive
both seemed to work ok but i didnt time sleuth them or anything like that

>>10693916
vga "monitors" arent the same as consumer crt
they might not even support 240p in some cases
if you can i would recommend getting both
dont overspend or whatever but if you have a small closet
whenever you find a deal just snag it and blip it in there after playtesting

dont overpay for inputs like RGB or ypbpr
s-video is good enough on quality sets most of the time

i dont test crt when i pick them up from normies
esp if its free just test it at home

try to get a brand you recognize
the only sleeper pick i can point out is "truetech"
which was the target store brand and a relatively late production run in the 2000s


hope that helps
other people will likely chime in
ebay i would avoid unless the seller is somewhat close
airmail will likely poo poo on the geometry\set

>>10693938
Thanks. So in short, if I'll see free LG/Panasonic/Philips that is anywhere from 21 to 32 inches, I should just get it? No hidden knowledge or things to avoid?
I know I shouldn't worry too much about it, since it's free, but I want to avoid the hassle getting rid of potential junk or swapping the CRT for another one after a month, because I realised that there are better options to choose from.

>>10693916
>2. What CRT should I be searching for? There is an abudance of them on the web for basically free, but I don't want to drive x miles just to bring some junk home. Are there any rules of thumbs I should follow? Size/type/manufacturer/anything?
This is going to depend on what your goals are. There's an old saying in the CRT community that "the best CRT is the one you have" because they're a finite resource and because they're so heavy and fragile shipping them isn't a great idea unless the seller knows what they're doing. So most people still obtain them locally and therefore you're limited by what's available within driving distance and sometimes by dumb luck like curbside pickups.

Assuming you do have options, pick a few characteristics that fit your needs. Size is the first limiting factor. Do you have the room and manpower to get a 36" monster? Do you want a 14" shelf TV that's easy to move and can fit just about anywhere?

Do you want a curved tube or a flat tube? Flat ones mostly started showing up in the early 2000s when CRTs were trying to keep pace with LCDs and plasmas. They tend to weigh a lot more than comparable curved sets though. They also tend to suffer more geometry problems. Not really noticeable with "regular" TV or 3D games but pop in a sidescroller and it might be an issue.

Finally do you want a dotmask like a PC monitor, a slotmask like most consumer TVs, or an aperture grille, which is generally just Sony.

If you go the PC monitor route, remember like >>10693938 said. There are two (really three but mostly two for the majority of people) scanning frequencies to be concerned with 15khz and 31khz. 15khz is equivalent to 480i/240p. 31khz is equivalent to 480p. 15khz is every consumer CRT and most arcade monitors. 31khz are most PC monitors. They're not compatible with each other unless the set is multisync, which is rare in the PC space and unheard of in the consumer TV space.

>>10693938
They don't support 240p, 480i, or any other 15KHz resolution in the vast majority of cases.
480p was intended as the standard for VGA.

>>10694024
>>10694062
Japanese PC monitors were often multisync to maintain compatibility with older machines such as PC88/98, X68000, etc.
NEC monitors in particular use the Multisync model line name globally to this day, so it's possible that some models outside of Japan support lower resolutions, too.

http://rgbcharmer.kt.fc2.com/rgb-kankyou-x68000.htm
http://rgbcharmer.kt.fc2.com/rgb-kankyou-fmtowns.htm
http://rgbcharmer.kt.fc2.com/rgb-kankyou-pctv.htm
http://rgbcharmer.kt.fc2.com/rgb-kankyou-others.htm

>>10693916
To your points:
I'm assuming you're in US.
>1)
Can't offer specific advice here on the RPi
>2)
I would say look for component inputs first. These *generally* didn't get put on crappy TVs as there isn't much point to an (at the time) high end signal for a tiny TV. I want to say 42" is the largest actual CRT tube I have ever seen on a consumer set, the largest I have is a 36. They can be very heavy. Sony Trinitron can be great if you can score them. Most larger "family" sets should be pretty nice. If I had nothing I would pick up basically any TV with component inputs from: Sony, Toshiba, RCA, Magnavox, Zenith, Sharp, Samsung.....and the list surely goes on...Smaller ones can be hit or miss but they're also fun to have. It really depends what you're going for. I do know some Toshiba under a certain size and later in years (like post 2001(?)) used a third party tube and are often said to be unreliable.
There is a lot of autism around PVMs - I don't know anything about these other than they usually require BNC connections and usually require RGB input and usually have no speakers and usually aren't larger than like 12" range or so. I think the advantage is they're pretty sharp and ofc RGB is a great input if your console can do it (it is unlikely it can natively without permanent modifications, that's up to you. I haven't gone down that road personally so I won't give further advice on PVMs.)
Overall I would just say try to find a nicely functional TV with component in or at least S video (or I guess SCART if you are a euro) and go with whatever you can get for free or very cheap DO NOT PAY BIG DOLLARS FOR CRTS IT IS NOT WORTH IT BASICALLY EVER.
>3)
Most CRTs you're pry gonna have to go pick up. people see them as heavy trash and don't wanna move them. most people with nothing to hide should let you test without resistance. I have my gamecube with an eon gchd mkii and retrovision Wii component cables, I also bring the factory composites to test that.

>>10693916
TV = Monitor with RF bolted on so you can watch telly
PC = Monitor without RF and usually more vertical lines so you don't get your eyes raped up close
Please just refer to the user manual for detailed specifications of whatever you intend to get because the assumption that PC CRT = VGA 31khz only is some retarded zoomie take that only had those cheap flatron sets from mid 2000.

>>10693916
>>10694214
And to your bonus points regarding TVs vs PC monitors, I wouldn't try to use one for the other or vise versa. It's not this simple, but for a beginner, here, yes it is:

PC monitor - VGA connection - Use with PCs only
TV - RF, Composite, Component, S Video or if in euroland RGB SCART. - use with consoles only

the only console I know of that has native VGA support is the Dreamcast which is weird for a console but I have literally never seen anyone actually use it. Not saying nobody does just that ive never seen it.

Outside of intense autism which includes soldering traces to extract and intercept internal RGB signals right off the chip before they hit a signal processor and internally get converted to the consoles normal output, you're going to be dealing with RF, Composite, S Video, or Component. So get a TV that has those. Composite is probably the most widely used out of all of them.

Tldr my advice is for your first time to just try to get a set that can support the nicest output the console(s) you want to play can natively support, or can support with reversible mods only, and if you want to play on a PC then buy a PC monitor, Don't try to overthink it.

>>10692478
Looks pretty close to mine
I recently managed to fix the front panel so I can finally use the buttons to enter service mode and now I'm trying to fix the geometry every night instead of playing any games.
Looking forward to the day I'll be able to get those lines straight and just play everything without getting distracted.
And hey, I also live in a commieblock.

>>10693916
>Is raspberry Pi emulation good enough for playing on CRT
Could be decent with enough tinkering and a proper hat but by default it isn't too hot.
>just buy PS2
For playing PS2 and PS1 games it's ideal, emulating other shit on it kinda sucks, hardware is too weak for accurate emulation and the emus weren't updated in ages.
My personal tier list for emulating on a CRT is
Mister (really good and easy to use but expensive) > GroovyArcade PC (requires A LOT of tinkering and specific hardware but the results are pretty good) > RPi (decent, requires tinkering, can produce very shitty results if you don't know what you're doing) > Wii (super easy to set up but not too good at emulation and is a fucking wii)

>>10693920
None of these dongles introduce latency. The worst they can do is fuck up the colors.

>>10694217
>because the assumption that PC CRT = VGA 31khz only is some retarded zoomie take that only had those cheap flatron sets from mid 2000.
If someone is asking basic questions then that's more or less accurate for their purposes. Yes it's not strictly true but if someone is literally asking the equivalent of "whats a CRT?" then its better to give the broad strokes. Otherwise watch how fast they buy a PC monitor and wonder why they can't play their SNES on it.

>>10694467
Everything introduces latency. Breaking up a wire into two wires with a connector in-between introduces latency. Using a longer wire instead of a shorter wire introduces latency. Just because you can't notice it doesn't matter it's not there.

>>10694539
Latency of less than one frame is for all intents and purposes latency free.

>>10694539
Wow, you're so smart.
You know what I meant though.

>>10694549
Latency less than a frame is not necessary insignificant, but whatever latency is introduced in the dac chip isn't even measured in ms. It's good enough for light guns, timesleuth wouldn't be able to detect it.

>>10694305
jesus christ anon it's as close as you're gonna get, crack the ass-end off of it, adjust the focus pot a little to see if you can't sharpen up the corners, dial the brightness back a little and play some fucking games already

>>10694305
I've also got one that looks exactly like yours, it's a KV-29X2D with a 100Hz mode that can be disabled. Here's an old pic. The IC inside is not the same though, mine says CXA2018 and the menu looks a bit different.
The geometry was much worse when I got it, but I managed to unfuck it a bit. Unfortunately the yoke has sagged somewhat, causing a visible vertical bow that I can't fix without opening it up. Same goes for the corners.

>>10694772
*CXA1840

>>10694106
I'm pretty bummed as the NEC MultiSync I have is only 480p and up. Upside is that it does 1280x960 rather nicely so some upscalers play nice with it. If I could get something that does 15/24/31 KHz and is pretty sizable I would be a happy man, even if it topped out at 480p.

I know that a VGA monitor is less ideal than an actual TV CRT, but is the information on the emu wiki regarding using 3840x480 still accurate?

https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/Displays#240p.2F480i

>>10693916
I'm >>10686107 above, I'm using an old 3B+ and I can tell you even with barebones lakka it's not quite strong enough to run N64 games at full speed, but everything else I've tested works fine (PSX and below, some arcade), if not always using the most accurate cores. You need to do some basic text editor config to get it to output 240p over composite and you need to download a shader >>10687161 to take care of the borders on 95% of games. It's not exactly difficult but it isn't plug and play. Only other thing I can tell you is I'm not using the TRRS jack, I soldered my own composite jack onto the test pads on the underside of the board, as that gives the cleanest output you can get from it. I'm about to set my Pi4 up the same way as it should be enough to get fullspeed N64 and maybe even use BeetlePSX for PGXP. Whether that's 'good enough' is entirely up to you, though.

For your other two questions, whatever works and has the inputs you need is probably good enough. If you're going to buy it, at least ask them to turn it on and feed something to it if they can.

BIG ONE!

D A I L Y R E M I N D E R

can rf actually do 240p or only 480i

>>10695557
those are the same thing anon
If it is not producing a 240p image then something in your chain is fucking it up

>>10695557
Sync is too simple a signal to get fucked up by shitty connections. RF, composite, RGB, doesn't matter, sync will always be precisely what it was at the source. So yes, it can do 240p.
This is also the answer to all the retarded questions like "will I have scanlines with composite" that pop up here from time to time, by the way.

>>10694758
Nah, I got it a little straighter after posting that, even played some Gradius after.
Honestly I'm kinda afraid poking a powered up TV with a screwdriver so I'm leaving the focus as is unless it gets worse over time. The brightness is actually fine, that's just ISO on my phone camera (cranked it so you don't see my face reflected)

>>10694772
Damn, how do you even fix that

>>10695015
You can do that but it looks stupid unless you get a really old monitor, the scanlines are way too sharp. Just scale up 2x and use a scanline filter.

>>10695674
There are devices that support 480i but not 240p. Most HDMI devices, for instance.

>>10695676
Apparently you can just turn some rings on the yoke assembly to fix the bowing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3B3cb5r_ScM

https://youtube.com/watch?v=z-q8ehzHeQQ&t=200
Could this approach be used by enthusiasts for DIY color CRTs? I've seen homemade monochrome CRTs, but not a color one. The spinning color wheel seems much easier to do than the traditional approach with 3 rays each hitting different phosphor colors. It would require bumping the frequency 3 times over the target though, so a 15KHz CRT would have to shoot electrons at 45KHz in reality. Nowadays that we have wicked fast processors available to consumers for cheap, the "hardest" part (signal decoding), becomes trivial.

>>10695845
I'm not sure anyone is going to homebrew a 180Hz refresh transparent LCD in their garage.

>>10695951
You don't need that, just a big transparent plastic color wheel that spins at a constant 3600rpm. Sure, it would take more space, but I don't think that's a big sacrifice for someone who's making CRTs in their garage.

>>10695676
It's not as scary as you think, just mind your hands, and for the focus pot either pick up a ceramic screw set or frequency adjustment set.

>>10696258
looks ok
slightly off on geometry
i prefer overscan to be blasting outside the frame of the tube but to each their own

>>10695356
i really don't understand how anyone picks up non-blurred pixel games and thinks, "at last, i am viewing it as the artist intended"

>>10695845
For the last time, nobody needs to make tubes. There are plenty of tubes. What we need is a custom chassis that can accept reclaimed tubes from shitty TVs. Because in the end the tubes are rarely the problem. You could theoretically pull the tube out of a bottom barrel RF only set, drop it into a custom chassis, and have an incredibly good multisync monitor with every input you can imagine. Some guy is supposedly in the very early stages of doing exactly this. Hobbyist CRTs are a dead end but a hobbyist CRT chassis is very realistic.

>>10696374
they dont think that
they dont think at all
they are fucking mongoloids
they are either blind, underage or mongoloids

>>10695356
>>10696374
>>10696465
What's the argument here?
Raw pixels good or raw pixels bad?
I like it with the shader.
Looks cleaner to me.

>>10696667
it's not even about subjectivity good or bad
you literally can't even tell what the image is without dithering/bloom/blur
/vr/ games were literally designed for CRT
it's cool other options exist or whatever but to deny crt superiority is COPE

>>10696667
It's even not a real screenshot. There was no AA on PS1, lol. And there was no dithering on a prerendered background.

>>10695026
Thanks. I didn't know that soldering the cables directly to the board will give better results. I'll definitely try it. Also thanks for the shader, I'll surely play around with it

>>10696831
the dithering comes from using a CRT which is made out of glass and uses phosphor
dear Lord

>>10696879
I was talking about the picture with crisp pixels not about skanlined-crt-like one.

>>10696907
shaders have a ways to go before being perfect
but id take someone pretending to try over pixel slop

>>10696667
pixel art was always rendered to consumer CRT during the production process. it was always understood that the rigid grid of pixels is supposed to smudge together to create the illusion of organic form. that this is fundamental to all animation is lost on people raised in the 60fps 3d era
>>10696465
good point, you're right, they are utterly irredeemable hylic chaff.

>>10696820
>deny crt superiority
The second pic isn't a crt either though

>>10696390
>You could theoretically pull the tube out of a bottom barrel RF only set, drop it into a custom chassis, and have an incredibly good multisync monitor with every input you can imagine.
I imagine making that kinda thing in low quantities will make it cost like a BVM though.

>>10696963
>pixel art was always rendered to consumer CRT during the production process
Always?

>>10697126
Yep, Gameboy LCD was viewed as a serious compromise at the time and still looks like shit compared to SNES on teevee

>>10696820
>>10696831
>>10696963

I think there's a place for both. Yes in a vacuum things will end up looking more accurate on a CRT but I also understand retrotink and similar device users because they just want one TV for everything. Practicality is a factor. Me? I have the resources and space for both so I just do that and play what I want where I want it when I want it. If I could only have one though I'd have to go with my modern 75" LCD with a retrotink. I'd have shaders on for sure for the scanlines as it totally looks better, but the practicality of such a device is pretty undeniable.

>>10697173
shaders are a good enuf way to replicate what it's roughly supposed to look like. a better compromise that naked LCD screen if portability/convenience is the concern... i happen to like the trinitron shader on my analogue pocket quite a bit

>>10697129
>viewed as a serious compromise
By whom, the artists? What makes you think they didn't see SD CRTs as a compromise as well?
Were the Third Strike animators or Legend of Mana background artists happy with digitizing their analogue art and then cleaning it up pixel by pixel because they loved cathode ray tubes as much as you do or were they forced into it by the hardware constraints?

>>10697240
the Game Boy screen was a compromise because it smeared like crazy. That's why you didn't see a lot of games aim for 60fps. Nintendo saw what that did to Super Mario Land in motion and changed their strategy.

>>10697126
>>10697129
They also used the deficiencies of the screen to create transparency.

>>10696972
not the point of the gif image though
it SHOWS THE EFFECT not an actual crt

>>10697173
i have large flatpanels as well
but i rarely do anything vintage on them
im lucky enough to have enough crt to last a lifetime
but i am well aware that its a privilege

>>10697421
>>10697173
to clarify, i think emulation\shaders always looks better than real hardware on flatpanels
the2xpro has v limited scanlines and they dont help much
the "smush' filter does help n64 quite a bit but its not enough imo

>>10697240
>>10697240
>>10697414
Technical changes happen all the time in art. A change is introduced into a stable system; some of the outcomes are good for the old techniques, which are preserved; some of the outcomes are bad for other old techniques, which either become more difficult to execute or are outmoded completely; and still other new techniques will be found. This isn't rocket science. It's obvious that the Gameboy's LCD screen requires a different approach to pixel art than SNES games intended for a home TV set in the early 1990s. Artists working in the different media use different techniques to achieve different results. The original post was about how SNES pixel artists used consumer CRT's to check the final appearance of their designs. It doesn't matter for the point I'm making if some retarded Legend of Mana background painter decided for some stupid reason that he's not going to check what his image will look like on home consoles until it's already finished. Saying CRT blur is a constraint is the same as saying it's part of a technique peculiar to video games from a certain time and place.

>>10697190
its not bad but far from the real thing
the nightmare will be:
68yrs old, retirement home
shitty food, shitty staff, shitty slang
gaymen is on a crappy tv panel that looks wrong

>>10696302
>slightly off on geometry
And I wouldn't have it any other way.

>>10697749
im not saying i would tweak on it or open it to make adjustments
or hell, even fuck with the service menu
but if that anon CHANGED the picture settings to be underscan rather than usual overscan bleed
i wouldn't be v happy haha

>>10685426
Picked this up last weekend for $15. It turns on but the remote sensor doesn't work so I'm planning to look into that this weekend.
Any advice for not getting zapped? I've already taken the back off and discharged the anode cap (it's been unplugged for a week so I didn't notice any sparks)
I've had another CRT for about 6 years but this is my first time ever working on one.

>>10697835
you disassembled it to fix a remote sensor?
what if the remote LEDs simply went out over time?
anon wtf
test it with a universal blaster first

>>10697987
The remote works. I was able to pair it to a DVD player at the store and nothing I tried with the TV worked. I wouldn't even bother with this if it weren't for the fact that I can't access the input channels via the channel buttons.
>test it with a universal blaster first
Already tried that, no dice.
It's entirely possible I'm going overboard and I'm either doing something wrong or it just needs to be cleaned, but I'm drawing a blank on any other options. At the very least, I can clean the dust out of the guts while I'm in there.

>>10698008
could be just some dust inside the sensor
hopefully its something easy
but a kid could have jammed the sensor itself with an object
kids do retarded stuff'
when i was 11 i broke the panel cover off my trinitron in my room and lost it

>>10698162
i also used to tweak the tink to change the game colors drastically
and sometimes would play in black and white
pretending i was in an old movie
batman on genesis was cool as fuck like this actually

>>10698167
*TINT

>>10698162
Yeah, I'm hoping it's just dirty. The lens seems unblocked from what little I can see, but there was also 20 years worth of dust inside.
I'll do some more discharging with the anode cap/capacitors this weekend. Once it's comfortably discharged, I'll test the IR sensor directly with a multimeter. I'm far from an expert on any of this, but I'm doing research and trying to be careful.
>>10698167
>and sometimes would play in black and white
I remember doing that a few times with Mario games. Fun stuff.

>>10698210
I remember playing a lot of 8bit games in black and white on grandma's soviet TV because it was fucking SECAM.

>>10697414
>They also used the deficiencies of the screen to create transparency.
This never ever happened.
That is just standard Composite/RF tricks because of those connections having way higher luma bandwidth(3 to 4.5mhz) compared to chroma bandwidth(0.5mhz).
That's why the Sonic waterfall displays just fine on a modern display if you hook up a Genesis with RF or Composite. It has fuck all to do with CRTs.

>>10699126
It also only ever worked on sega consoles.
Like in Secret of Mana you got the dithered windows but they don't look transparent, you can clearly see the pattern. The only SNES game that got that composite transparency trick working is Kirby 3 and they had to use the high res mode for that.

>>10699126
Anon, read again what post he’s replying to before you go on your autistic tangent

>>10699134
He said
>deficincies of the screen
They did not use any CRT deficiency
It's nonsense

>>10699143
>GB
>CRT
Anon, I…

>>10699132
Mario World used it too for the water
Mana didn't use dithering

SNES could do transparencies without dithering either way

>>10696831
There absolutely is dithering on the PS1
On literally every game
It was in the hardware

>>10699150
OK fine I will take my loss

>>10699132
>>10699154
Here is Mana using native SNES transparency for the Water btw

>>10699143
ah yes these razor sharp jaggies look GREAT!
totally how i remember it

>>10699126
>.
I think the post you're replying to was talking about Gameboy color LCD.

>>10699324
You are a dumb cunt
The jaggies are due to the nearest neighbour upscaling
You get the same jaggies when you upscale on a PC CRT Monitor
You also get the same jaggies on a high TVL CRT like a PV/BVMeme but with memelines

BTW if you plug a console with RF/Composite on a modern screen you don't get much jaggies but you get a pretty blurry picture instead

>>10700306
wrong
the 240p games were never meant to be stretched to 1080p+ and gaped wide (like your girlfriend when she comes over)

>>10700415
L-LEWD!
>>10700978
i still havent beat it
i will this year i keep getting far then things come up in real life

OP here:
i'm kind of disappointed not very many people gave their opinions on the types of CRT and what situations/systems from benefit from each type


I have all three
I guess I'll have to play test and see for myself
I have become the craigslist thanos master of fuckin tvs

>>10701870
Because it’s subjective
Nobody can tell you what you like

>>10701870
To answer your questions:
I've got both slot mask and aperture grille TVs, no dot mask unless we count my old PC monitor that I haven't really used in a long time. I also pretty regularly play on slot mask monitors at my local arcade.
While I like both types, my main TV is a Trinitron, so you could say aperture grille is my favorite. Why? Can't really pinpoint that, I just like the look of it. Solid colors look really cool from up close, I guess. I also dig how darker colors just make a "thinner scanline" where they hit the stripes.
As for what systems benefit from which type, can't really say, but I like seeing PS1 running on a Trinitron via RGB, it just seems right. And the dithering makes the look really unique.
Also, I can't help but be fascinated by modern jpop album covers being displayed on the 15kHz slot mask monitor of Pop'n Music's old arcade cab. The game is still being updated from time to time, so it creates a funny anachronism.

>Boot up SH2
>Set the CRT's brightness as the game tells me
>Can't see shit, miss all the doors
I'm never trusting horror games again.

>>10695356
I remember installing my first emulators in early 2010's and thinking
>huh, all these games I played as a kid looked so much better back then. Nostalgia goggles are crazy!

>>10701976
I've had this happen with multiple games. Maybe it's due to color temp or something, I play at D93.

>>10701976
>>10702043
Which TV?

My favorite is aperture grill because that's what youtube told me was the best

what causes this pattern? increasing the brightness makes it fainter

>>10701870
I'm gonna be honest. The specific type of CRT is not something I think about that much. I'm just glad to have one that functions well and seems to have a lot of life left in it.

>>10701976
Time to spend $300 on a colorimeter to calibrate that shit

>>10701870
I have tried both shadow and aperture grille, currently using a Wega.
Honestly I can't really tell the difference from a normal playing distance. Things like colors and brightness are subjective to calibration and wear, so you can't really factor those.

The only thing that bothers me is the geometry and convergence. My Wega is kinda fucked but it is what it is.

- CRTs are no longer produced because they have inferior picture quality versus LCDs
- CRTs emit dangerous levels of X-rays or other forms of radiation
- CRTs always have easily-visible flicker
- CRTs always cause eyestrain
- CRTs always make a high-pitched squealing noise
- CRTs contain lethal amounts of electricity, even when unplugged
- CRTs need calibration more than two to three times a year
- Overall CRT black levels are not superior to LCDs because ambient light ruins CRT black levels
- Analog CRTs have more processing time than digital LCDs due to poor RAMDAC performance
- Afterimages caused by phosphor decay are extremely annoying and are a significant downside of CRTs
- Sending an improper mode (resolution or refresh rate) to a CRT can cause permanent damage
- CRTs cannot have touchscreens
- 4:3 is so bad that nobody should use a non-widescreen CRT
- The Sony GDM-FW900 is the only CRT worth owning
- Curved CRTs have objectively inferior picture quality versus flat CRTs with otherwise equal specifications
- CRTs should not be used because they are heavier and deeper than LCDs
- CRTs have severe reflections because they do not have matte coats
- CRTs can be permanently damaged by nearby magnets
- Analog signals limit a CRT's resolutions and refresh rates and negatively effect picture quality
- Heavy metals are used in CRT glass to reduce radiation

source:

https://www.reddit.com/r/GloriousCRTMasterRace/wiki/misconceptions/

>>10702365
why does this look so shitty?

>>10702372
Those are literally misconceptions. You left out the part where they say "here are a bunch of misconceptions"

>>10702374
because the TV is fucking filthy

>>10702202
not sure whats going on here post more pics. is that background supposed to be solid red and the dark stripes are the problem?

>>10702720
it has harsh banding

might as well play on emulator if you're going to make it look like that

>>10702365
Ah, I see you've got the same bowing problem as me, though mine is a normal Trinitron, not a WEGA.
Looks like it's a common issue, the guy in the linked video explains how to fix it.
>>10694772
>>10695741

W O U L D

>>10703047
Absolutely would. Holy hell what a set.

>>10702726
Yes there's this red stiped pattern over the screen, it's most visible on red background, barely visible otherwise

>>10702374
Because the geometry and convergence suck.

>>10702720
What do you mean by that?

>>10702748
Well, this is Wii emulation through component. Here's how it looks on my composite only set.

>>10702762
Yeah, it's quite common on Sony sets. I fixed it once adjusting the rings but it came back after moving the TV around.

>>10703297
the wii is comfy
i might set mine up again
its from my ex gf so i hate seeing all the miis she made on there though

>>10702372
v informative

>>10702748
What banding?

Sanyo composite only set, with philips tube. Is pretty decent and sharp for a cheap consumer tv

>>10702202
Does this happen with everything?
This looks console related

>>10685426
Pretty sure this is slot mask

>>10685426
Slot mask?

>>10685426
Slot mask

>>10685426

>>10685426
Aha made it straight this time!

>>10702365
It sucks because flat CRTs like that struggle to display 2D games uniformly.
3d games will look at better on. There's nothing wrong with a wega set. That parts really nice. It just sorta sucks at 2D games.

ill ask here.
i have a shit load of vga cables but only one of them can output higher resolutions (beyond 2048x1536 the others max out at 1800x1350) and all are totally fine in low res/high refresh rates. i thought they were all the same thing?
is there a fix for this bc the one that outputs high resolutions gives this weird shadow/blurry/streaking thing compared to all my other cables

Suh dudes. Anyone able to tell me what kind of RCA truflat this is, and what connections it would have? Possibly going to pick it up today if it's worth it as my first set.

>>10704410
Sure, pick it up
Looks decent enough

>>10704430
Looking online, it seems to be a 20F511T. Should I keep looking around if it doesn't have component inputs?

>>10704465
Depends on how much it costs
It most likely has S-Video, you won’t get too much increase from component or RGB except mostly for colours

>>10702065
PVM

>>10704596
i always bump the brightness up SLIGHTLY even in the crt era
i still do this even in darkened rooms i dont like losing detail
if shadows are too dark you lose scenery etc

>>10704492
>except mostly for colours
The color difference can be huge though. It's not too bad on console games since the devs knew which colors fit NTSC, but if you ever want to play arcade games on your CRT the difference is night and day.

>>10704492
I don't really understand why people say this. I feel like if you calibrate the colors, they shouldn't be too different between S-Video and component. The real difference is the color bleed.

How long would it take to inverse burn-in a CRT and what's the best way to go about it? Mine has some TV station logos burned-in at the bottom. I have a PS2 connected to it through composite. The PS2 is softmodded and I can boot a Linux distro with GIMP and feh from a DVD. I can save files to a USB drive. I think I'm going to try to draw an image in gimp and make the burned-in areas black or dark gray and the rest pure white, then open it in feh so that it covers the whole screen, crank up the contrast as high as I can and leave it like that for a long time. It's a pretty small one so doesn't pull that much electricity, only around 50W. Still, I could probably just buy a non burned-in one for the money that this will add to my bill. But if I succeed at it, I would have satisfaction from "fixing" it. How long would it take for good results? Is there any chance of success at all?

>>10705239
i don't see how evenly fucking up the whole screen would be better than a small burn in spot. don't do that

>>10705239
just leave it
play games that put HUD over it from n64 era and earlier for 2-3 hours at a time

W O U L D
we had this exact set growing up, n64 era +sega genesis\sega cd\32x (and sega fuckin CHANNEL)
god-tier times

>>10702374
Shitty? I think this looks fucking great. Better than anon's other TV. >>10703297

>>10706504
Parents had a similar set but made by RCA. Used to be my uncle's before that. No idea what ever happened to it but it got replaced with a cheap but bigger flat screen that could be wall mounted. Shame.

>>10695695
What do you mean by scaling up 2x? The internal resolution?

I think that following the guide I posted, while again not as good as a consumer TV, it still looks fairly good and much better than shaders on a <4k LCD screen. I was more so asking as to whether that information is still current.

>>10704097
Just like the developer intended

Just picked up a Sony KV-20s42, excellent condition, not a spec of dust / burn on the inside. Some text seems a little blurry at times, bright reds can seem a little too vibrant, and as you can see from the pic, it looks a little twisted counter clockwise.

Any input is greatly appreciated. Not sure if I should try and turn the inside unit itself to align it, go into the service menu, or adjusting the pots. Still setting it up now, and would like to take the utmost care of it ( debating rgb mods as well )

>>10707116
2nd pic

>>10707116
Turn off red push in service if the reds bother you, I think it's called AXPL?

>>10707123
Looks more orange in this pic, but in person it looks more bled out/too vibrant.

Looking into service settings now, thanks!

>>10707116
Composite NTSC is probably a major factor in colors looking like shit.

>>10707152

Yeah, this is my first time with a CRT and the plethora of knowledge and modding available. I may mod in RGB support if all the tweaking I can do doesn't fix certain things. Currently downloading the 240p test suite to really see what needs attention.

it's fucking awesome being able to come here for such a niche, as there isn't any kind of support around me.

>>10707116
turn sharpness way down. 240p test suite has a test meant for it. turn it down until those artifacts everywhere disappear

>>10707195
Artefacts?
isn't that just composite dot crawl?

>>10707203
looks like over sharpening to me. dot crawl isnt that bad

>>10707212
you probably just have a small or low res screen

>>10707213
no

>>10707129
>>10707118
>>10707116
I don't want to sound condescending
but this shit literally happened to me
if there are any speakers even remotely nearby it it will cause the picture to twist and discolor
any magnetism will fuck with the picture


verify that it's actually the set
take it into another room in your house and turn it on
leave it on for 5 to 15 minutes and see if it's still doing it it could be something nearby a guitar amp was my issue

>>10707228
return brightness contrast tint and sharpness all back to their original factory settings (50) halfway


let it run for a few minutes and see if it's still crooked
don't fuck with it you'll just make it worse
fuck with it is the last resort not the first

>>10707228
>l cause the picture to twist and discolor
what are you talking about
there is not discolouration in his picture

Okay so, i'm this guy >>10707116

I do not have any sources of magnetism near the set.
AXPL was already at 0 in the service menu. Holy fucking mother of christ theres so many service options. Before I touch any of it, i may just wait until I can get a pro to be hands on.

>>10707295
>AXPL was already at 0 in the service menu
right anon, set it to 1 and see if it works
also try AXNT

>>10707306
Also RDRV is the amount of red but I think the RCUT being 10 is probably the main cause
But having every setting written down is a great idea

>>10707308
I read turning RCUT down can mess with i think.. whites? turning them grey? Or other aspects of the picture. I'm looking up a fuckton of things now that I see how vast the menu is.

>>10707306
Damn, you right boi. Toned down the red coloration of the Metal Slug box art from looking nuclear, I can actually make it out now. noice.

>>10707318
DRV is for white levels but can also tint if colours are off
Same with CUT but for black

If it looks good probably best to leave it now

>>10707295
>wait until I can get a pro to be hands on
Your TV isn't going to explode if you fuck around with the settings menu man, especially when you wrote down the defaults to go back to in case you make things worse. I would leave the colors to pros since you need special equipment to do any of that shit but geometry can just be eyeballed.

>>10707332
Why would he mess with geometry if it’s good?
A twist in the image means the yoke needs a realignment which is a physical adjustment

>>10707327
Got the test suite working now, gonna tweak basic settings abit and then learn abit more about the service menu options.

>>10707332
Yeah i'm going to figure out more on what does what before I fuck around, specifically twisting the picture slightly back into place. Other than that, the little i've done has made a world of a difference already.

You guys rock especially for me starting all of this in the dead of night lmao

>>10707343
Crooked, and a little out of focus..? So messing with the pot, and moving the whole thing seems to be the fix here.

>>10707360
Yeah, not sure about messing with the yoke
You can certainly try if you want but it might fuck shit up
Ss for the focus pot, you have to do it while it’s on so make sure you don’t touch anything unnecessary just in case and only make very small adjustments
You’ll get there, however I recommend using something sharper than composite to get good results

>>10707295
You should probably change the value of Y-DC too. It introduces black crush. You can adjust the brightness to your liking after.

>>10707116
>>10707360
Ha. I have a kv20m40 that's equally slightly crooked in the opposite direction. Personally I don't think it's worth it to try fucking with it when it's otherwise in great shape. I just did some slight adjustment in the service menu to straighten the image vertically a little and adjust the focus.
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/699609/Sony-Trinitron-Kv-20m42.html#product-Trinitron%20KV-20S42

>>10703297
howd i do

>>10707845
Yeah I just messed with the focus pot, may have helped. I'm really not wanting to fuck this thing up by trying to just get like 8 degrees of tilt out of it. I messed with the VANG setting that was at 6, put it to 0, to get some of it out, and it.. kinda helped? Sadly I couldn't find any horizontal tilt.

Whats your opinion on RGB mods...? I'm currently repasting my PS3, and gonna pick up some composite cables. Would really like to get more out of it, but not if it's a shitshow.

>>10708036
The manual I linked will tell you what each option of the service menu does, the default values and typical range. As for mods, I know the board in mine has depopulated spots for S-video clearly visible and in the schematics, so getting S-video going should be pretty straightforward, at least.

>>10685426
My CRT is getting a wiggly line that scrolls through it. Was working perfect last week but Im guessing a power filter cap is going bad or something.

:(

>>10708027
holy color bleed

>>10708027
looks nice
if the colorbleed bugs ya
try changing to nicer cabling
it really does matter esp over composite

>>10708690
could be it
i have recapped plenty of arcade pcb \ vintage consoles etc
but i never have attempted a crt

i would personally chalk it up as a net-loss
but maybe im just being a pussy about it

tfw bad geometry...

>>10700415
You still don't get jaggies if you plug in a Genesis via RF/Composite directly to your modern screen.
It's because TVs use bicubic interpolation.
You get a blurry image instead.

Just stop arguing with me faggot, you are out of your depth.

>>10708843
>tfw all ex gf were full B or larger

>>10710196
>out of my depth
>hes plugging directly into modern flatpanels over rf/composite sans up scaler or signal processor/line doubler
holy lol, lmfao even

>>10711657
looks pretty bad, you have black crush

>>10711680

>>10685426
I seen a rainbow yesterday
But too many storms have come and joined
Leavin' a trace of not one God-given ray
Is it because my life is ten shades of gray
I pray, all ten fade away, seldom praise Him for the sunny days
And like His promise is true, only my faith can undo
The many chances I blew to bring my life to anew
Clear and blue and unconditional
Skies have dried the tears from my eyes, no more lonely cries
My only bleedin' hope is for the folk who can't cope
With such an endurin' pain that it keeps them in the pourin' rain
Who's to blame for tootin' 'caine into your own vein
What a shame, you shoot and aim for someone else's brain
You claim the insane and ain't this day and time for fallin'
Prey to crime I say the system got you victim to your own mind
Dreams are hopeless aspirations in hopes of coming true
Believe in yourself, the rest is up to me and you
… Don't go chasin' waterfalls
Please stick to the rivers and the lakes that you're used to
I know that you're gonna have it your way or nothing at all
But I think you're moving too fast
… Oh, you're moving too fast
… Don't go chasin' waterfalls

super noob here and wanna try joining the club:
what about a sony KV-14LT1E (seems in pretty good condition) for 80euro(shippin included)?

>get a KV-27FV16 because it has component, and has better picture quality
>apparently isn't compatible with the resolutions PS2 and GameCube output through component, meaning I can't actually make use of it
At least the S-video looks pretty nice...

>>10712313
You are misinformed. 99% of ps2 games don't have progressive scan modes, and gamecube games at least ask you if you want that resolution.

>>10712224
seems fair seems reasonable
however in the United States it's very risky to order televisions through the mail because the workers thrash them
not sure what it's like over there
just make sure you can get your money back if it arrives damaged

>>10712224
Although the TV itself seems alright, I wouldn't pay more than 20€ for it, personally. And risk shipping it at that.
Check your local listings, there's surely a ton of CRTs near you for less than what they ask considering you're in Europe.

>>10712313
Component works with 480i, too. You don't progressive scan to use it.

>>10712647
*don't need progressive scan

Emufaggots think they're fooling anyone
pathetic, LMAO

>>10712654
i mean they did win a war against the australian army once

4:3 is objectively correct for all occasions.

>>10712569
>because the workers thrash them
Bullshit. It's really because the conveyor systems that move packages through distribution centers have drops from one belt to another.

>>10708690
thats gotta be electrical interference. Try unplugging everything 1 by 1 that is on the same breaker and see if it has any effect. My ps2 was causing it with a cheap off brand power supply that needed a better ferrite bead clip

>>10708843
try adjusting the sexy setting

>>10691763
why's the geometry all fucky?

>>10711730
kekked

>>10712834
thats a man, baby, yeahhhhh!

>>10712318
>>10712647
But if I want progressive, I guess I'm fucked.

>>10712771
those ferite bead clips seem to also help RF connections too
I clipped one on a cable that I use for my generation two systems


wi-Fi seems to interfere badly here

>>10712995
You won't get progressive scan 480p (31kHz) on a standard def CRT TV. 240p will work as it's the same horizontal frequency as 480i (15kHz).
For 480p you'll need a higher model of PVM, an HD CRT, a PC monitor or an LCD/OLED, preferably with a scaler.

>>10712995
If you want 480p then either get a PC monitor or an EDTV.

>>10712995
You probably want a multiformat PVM

>>10712995
As other anons have said, barely any PS2 games had progressive scan in the first place. Yeah the GCN supported it more but whatever, just enjoy the high quality input

This thread kinda makes me jealous I don't have a low TVL crt, all of my shit is way too sharp with pronounced scanlines.
But I don't have space for another TV...

>>10714843
yes you do

>>10714843
do you have a closet?
its ok to rotate them in and out of usage
i check on some of mine only a handful of times a year
everything seems fine
one of my pink tv i have TWO of kek

i wanted it ;_;

>>10685426
The Sony 1353MD pvm i got a while back for $50. The vertical deflection on it was busted and almost had completely collapsed. Recapped it with better rated electrolytics than with what Snoy had originally used and it's my main tv now.

>>10714843
Just tune focus to be blurrier

>>10715598
looks good anon
>>10715609
kek
>>10712973
KEKKED
>>10711730
the posters on this board do not know the song grandpa
>>10711657
>>10711716
BITCH!

>>10715991
OP here
epic thread guys
until next time,
with love

some one else make the next thread ok bye

>>10715005
it was taken?

>>10717838
i wanted it but
I realistically cannot fit that thing inside my house it's not that I don't have room

my doorways are literally just too narrow and I don't have a garage
plus the screen has been switched out for an LCD anyways
and I would imagine the side art has been replaced with reproduction

So I was going to get speakers for my CRT/PVMs, but I found out about the lack of shielding. Shielded ones cost too damn much now. Is there a way to tell how far I can move the speakers away from them to prevent interference? I got the PVMs on a coffee table so there's probably enough length there.

>>10718007
don't buy something new. Just go to a thrift store and buy something old for nothing since they were all shielded back then.

>>10718007
Even ebay sellers mark their old speakers as "shielded". I remember even seeing one guy selling the external speakers from his XBR CRT for less than a hundred.

>>10718019
That was the plan till I've had a month and a half straight of nothing or RCAless input speakers. Getting impatient with this.

>>10718039
99% of speakers don't have RCA
Get a RCA to speaker wire adapter or manually strip the wires out of your RCA cables

>>10718056
So you're saying RCA inputs are a thing only for the recent bookshelf speakers and such?

>>10718067
Yes. Older high end TV's even had speaker terminals for output audio

>>10718071
Ok that explains why I couldn't find anything. I'll just see if I can find a home theater receiver or something to hook the speakers and plug the consoles into than.

>>10718007
How big?
Average size home speakers shouldn't be an issue, especially on a PVM.

>>10718056
>Get a RCA to speaker wire adapter
And plug it into what? If it's a passive speaker it needs an amp.

Since we're talking about interference, what about a set of hifi cabinet speakers next to a 36" CRT TV? Well, not next to as they produced noticeable distortion when directly next to, but I moved them about a foot away as that's what's convenient for my setup, and I don't notice anything? I think? How far should I aim to get these speakers away?

>>10718242
pull up 240p test suite with the full solid color screen test. Put the speakers far away enough that there's no visisble discoloration on any of the individual color screens, then check for white discoloration.

>>10718186
11' Panasonic, 13' trinitron PVMs

Is there a magical device or part i can get for RF connections that reduces the static? Im fine with fuzzyness, but having to cojigger the cable around to get a non ass signal is annoying. I also live in a small city now to im sure it's getting interference from other shit. Would a brand new RF cable improve things? It was never this bad before so i could imagine the cables being worn or poorly insulated or whatever.

>>10718007
depends on the speaker size it seems
the magnets cause issues -
my marshall fullstack is still in the same room but had to be moved from 3-4feet away to over 15 feet away

your mileage may vary
you will notice right away if there is a problem
usually discoloration in the corners or geometry slightly shifting\twisting

dont overspend for speakers dude

>>10718737
what cables and connections are you using?

>>10718737
clip on ferrite beads

>>10718949
Well for an example, i have an atari 7800 hooked up to an RF only tv with a coaxial connector using the NES RF adapter.

>>10718007
I have small polk s10 speakers about 30cm from my 13 inch crt.

If you don't see image distortion / discoloration its probably fine. Every time you turn on a CRT it degausses the shadow mask anyway.

>>10718991
Huh, seen these before and never knew that's what they did. Does only one on a wire improve it or do you need to add multiple depending on cable length?

>>10719114
1 on each end sometimes. you can loop the wire instead of straight through for better noise suppression. Look at a ps2 slim power cable for example

>>10719114
ya pretty big improvement
also running rf into a good modulator will reduce signal distortion even more

>>10719104
The 7800 doesn't provide the 5V needed to operate an automatic switch. You will either need to use a manual RF switch or connect your Atari directly to the TV with an RCA to F connector adapter.

>>10685426
This Toshiba set is my favorite. The dreamcast is hooked up with scart through component. That's virtua on oratorio tangram.

>>10718737
A new cable is worth a try but RF is the fuzziest of signals. The ferrut bead isn't a bad suggestion. I have an atari 2600 that's rf output looks really bad but it's also because the console needs a recap.

>>10719291
Well god damn. Idk if it was just me being retarded and trying to use the nes rf cable or just propping up the cable just behind the 7800, but i dug out my screw on bits, put em on a regular coaxial cable and when i got a clear signal just now i almost wanted to damn cry from the beauty of seeing a not completely fucked rf signal in since over a decade.

>>10719550
it still looks fucked haha
but im glad youre happy with it anonkun

a radioshack rf modulator is like $14 shipped
consider grabbing one for signal cleanup
i use it with my bally and ody2 all the time
removes most of the "noise" and static

PVM-1953md I recalibrated. I got it from my doctor when I went to go fix an ear problem, it was sitting in a corner with a bunch of PVM-2030s next to it

>>10719928
if ya wanna tell him to sell me a couple feel free anon
looks good

here is my poorly photographed 240p test suite

>>10718067
>>10718071
>>10718073
My shitty toshiba has a PHONES jack that puts out good audio for speakers.

>>10720640
i just route my signal directly to the speakers
sometimes i use a large PA
sometimes i use nice headphones\monitors

>>10720818
why are you drinking out of plastic

>>10715598
looks so good with a gray ps1

Seeing OP makes me want to set up one of my spare CRTs sideways for tate games.

>>10720640
Good for you. Mine don't.

>>10720640
The headphone jack on my trinny is so fucking noisy I had to buy a separate headphone amp

>>10713161
>>10713227
Should it be PVM? Which is better, PVM or BVM? I'm a little confused about that part.
>>10713246
Most of the better PS2 games support it though. SO3, Shadow of The Colossus, Gran Turismo 4, Tekken, MMX8, Soul Calibur, DBZ Bukodai 3, RE4, etc.

>>10721298
PVM and BVM are model ranges, the models have different inputs and supported resolutions.
HD PVMs are mostly a meme since they cost like $1000 for 14"
I promise you, PS2 games look better interlaced on 25" consumer CRT than on 14" incher in progressive.
If you REALLY want it you can get a scaler like GBS-C and a VGA monitor, set the scaler to passtrough so it will convert 480p component to VGA and play that way, that's what I did when I got really autistic about progressive scan
then went back to big TV after a day

>>10721298
>PVM or BVM
It should be multiformat

>>10721576
>anon goes looking for a monitor sold as "multiformat"
>buys some random pos
>it's 15KHz only but supports both PAL and NTSC
Funny prank

>>10721585
that's not multiformat
Multiformat literally has a label on the front of the TV

>>10721594
Anon doesn't know that and random guy on ebay just wants more buzzwords to sell hist shit

>>10721604
Anon doesn't realise that it doesn't matter because the label is right there

>>10720842
I hate to be the bearer of bad news
but all the food you buy and all the drinks you ever bought have the plastic
all the pipes you ever drank out of
if you live in the United States at least

>>10722059
>because microplastics exist you should drink out of plastic bottles
genius

>>10723179
I bet you think there’s no plastic when drinking out of cans

>>10724324
Um wtf I thought the liners were made of soft metal?

Motherfuckers still running crts in 2024 acting like tiktok crystal moms about plastic bottles is a pretty funny bit

>>10724392
meds

>>10724392
>NOOOOOOOO STOP HAVING FUN AND HOBBIES RIGHT NOW
mindbroken.

>>10724476
Being paranoid about plastic is your hobby?
Impressive

>>10724518
I have no fucking idea what you just said. It literally cannot be understand. That is because you did not actually say anything as much as you just put random words together, without any knowledge of what you think they apply to. You are less than human. You are a sub human. People like you aren't actually alive, the word "NPC" definitely applies, you will never understand how a real, living person, thinks, you are a mindless drone that will die without even noticing. Kill yourself right now

I have a crt monitor with a couple of light scratches on it. Would I be able to polish them out?

>>10725494
probably not without making the screen look worse, you'll end up making other clear parts look frosted

>>10724392
Is this ebonics speak?

>>10725494
put car wax on it
werked on my ps3 fat

>>10723179
there are worse things in the tapwater than plastic brother
atrazine
castration chemicals

>>10725494
As long as it’s not part of a tint then it should be fine
Otherwise you gotta take all the tint off

>>10725791
>water is turning frogs gay
>better drink out of plastic
genius

>>10719452
Nice, looks similar to a D series

>>10691245
>gunple
soulful game

>>10726161
>all my shampoos cosmetics food and every other drink I've had in my entire life was in a plastic container at the store
yes please keep splitting hairs about distilled water

>>10726386
High IQ point rebuttal anon. I kneel. If your shampoo comes in plastic bottles you should definitely drink out plastic then.

>>10726393
if I lived in an area or tapwater wasn't problematic I would drink that instead
I don't want ground up prescription pills that people threw away in my water
The municipal would kill my pets instantly
I'm not drinking that garbage

>>10725639
Yeah that's my concern, I don't wanna make it worse by fixating on two minor imperfections.
>>10725798
I had a look at the manual online a while back and I know that the monitor has a anti-glare coating. The scratch is probably in that, if the coating is still on it. The scratches aren't deep at all, I can't even feel them.

>>10726408
>I don't understand math
Definitely don't look into the PPM amount of those things vs how much plastic you are drinking. Or estrogen like hormones found in bottled water. That would be problematic

There's some new old stock IBM e74s on ebay. They aren't anything special (1024x768 at 85hz max). Stilled sealed in OEM packaging and the price isn't way too high ($250).

my boomer father just threw away the crt that was with all of my stuff. The old Sanyo one. I haven't been looking into this stuff since I just had mine all of my life, now I'm in the market for a CRT. Are we just hitting up the Goodwills and recycling centers for random CRTs?

>>10727380
Depends on where you live. The goodwills near me stopped taking CRTs years ago, same for most thrift stores. Recycling centers are a pretty good bet but they often list their stuff on ebay. The new old stock IBMs I just mentioned are being sold by a recycler. Facebook marketplace is usually the best place to find something locally now.

which one of you nerds picked up that viewsonic g800?

>>10727404
it was me
i needed a coaster

>>10727379
>They aren't anything special (1024x768 at 85hz max).
Not like you need anything higher anyway. Personally, 1024x768 is my cutoff for anything retro, and that's for post-2000 stuff mostly. Old games don't benefit from high resolutions, I'd say it ruins the aesthetic, even.
One thing I'd argue for is 120Hz at that res, but 85 on a CRT isn't bad, either, and you can get higher refresh rates if you go down with resolution.

>>10726913
anon
the seahorses would be dead if I followed your advice
municipal water is filled with strange junk that is outside of my control heavy metals toxic chemicals etc.

>>10728267
and it's not even taking into account the piping that it's running through
there have been several recent news reports within the last 100 months in this area
literal lead poisoning

>>10693646
can't tell what the model is exactly but if you wanna open it up you can rgb mod it
looks like a newer crt 2001 or so
you don't really need to actually know what ur doing if you have a guide and buy the mux board but if you know a little about circuits you can do it on your own custom proto-pcb
the tv probably only has composite inputs which washes the colors out and looks shit so an rgb mod would really help
https://sector.sunthar.com/guides/crt-rgb-mod/

>>10697835
discharge the main filtering capacitor(big one near power cable) the others dont hold much charge if theyre even charged at all. If the tv has been sitting for a couple days ur probly good. Get it right the first time opening crts is a pain in the ass op

>>10728267
Good thing bottled water comes from a safe place you can trust. They care

>>10728853
i discharge the caps and anode by putting my balls on them

>>10729035
not saying i agree with the privatization of natural resources (ex. coca cola in india)
however distilled water is not the same thing as "bottled water"
most store bought shitmon is usually just tap still kek


i have been keeping delicate saltwater critters since 2007
i cried when they bred in captivity
they didnt like the tv on at night

>>10729043
>poisoning your fishes
yikes. You should get a reverse osmosis setup instead of dumping plastic on them.

>>10728853
Thanks anon. I've got another CRT I need to make adjustments on at some point (picture is tilted so I'm assuming the yoke needs adjusting) so I'll definitely keep that in mind.
I've been chipping away at the Toshiba, mostly doing research after work to learn what's what on the board. I don't see any noticeable breaks, burns, or damages on either side of the main board or neck board, so I'll get a new sensor and see if that fixes it.