/vr/ - Retro Games

Comic books were almost universally regarded as bottom-of-the-barrel trash prior to the Ironman movie.

>>10558724
Licensed games, at the end of the day, are about making money. Why put in effort when having a license alone guarantees some sales?
Plus, it's not like the licensees are guaranteed to know what a high-quality video game is like, especially back before gaming got to be a particularly big industry.

>>10558724
>>10558729
Hulk Ultimate Destruction was the best capeshit game

In theory? Yes. In practice? No.

>>10558724
they already spent money on the license. and they knew cattle would buy it simply based on the cover anyway, and it's all that matters.

>>10558738
>>10558724
The publishers just want to cash in on some currently airing TV show or film, and thus spend as little as possible. There was a trend for quality in the 80's and early 90's when Disney, WB, and others hired Capcom, Konami, and other Japanese devs who actually tried to put out a good product.

These sort of licensing agreements are generally conducted by out of touch reptilians who have no actual idea what the products they're funding even are.

Like the exchange is literally just
>hissss I sign you the rightssss to superman and I will make this much money? excellent hissss I agree to thissss

There's a 0% chance whoever approved of Superman 64 ever even saw the final product.

Shit devs, shit license holders, that's basically what happened to Superman

>>10558724
Money speaks like a liar in a Greek bath house

>>10558729
the penultimate zoomer take

>>10558724
this game is actually good though, journalists and e-celebs just never played past the first level 'cuz they're too shit at games to fly through hoops.

>>10559462
It is not. It is a released beta. The only thing good about it is the headcannon one can build "if this was fixed it would be good" There are tons of games like this.

>>10558724
>>10558740
Play Castlevania 64 and Viewful Joe

>>10558724
Well, they were made with the idea that, having the license alone would be enough to sell it, and it often was the case, so the cycle just repeated, add to that publishers who rushed developers as they gave them no time, nor resources, with few of them actually being AAA developers at all, far from it, and you get mostly shovelware. When I see a licensed title that's a 6/10, it impresses me.

A few licenses did get lucky though, Disney is a prime example, Spider-Man also comes to mind, if we stay on the whole super hero topic, even Batman had a few quality titles even back then.

>>10558729
I hate capeshit, but this sounds dubious. They got big movie deals. Batman and Superman were big

>>10558724
>Why were some licensed games so horrible?
You posted a game based on a superhero franchise. How do you exactly make a game about a guy who's impervious to nearly anything that could kill a regular man? He's the fucking SUPERMAN, it's right in the title! Superman and similar superheroes has always been a tough theme for a video game. The reason why other franchises had it easier with games was the characters, who might be also super-awesome in their own right, but they're far from being nigh-indestructible like Superman - think of TMNT, Chip & Dale and other Disney characters, who have got their fair share of exceptionally good licensed games in the /vr/ era. Then there are developers who are just sloppy with just about any licence - case in point, pic related. It could've been an enjoyable, if mediocre platformer featuring the titular lazy ass cat. Instead it's a hot mess, an example of "how not to make a game" in general. But I'm getting a little bit extreme here, because the best example of a company that churned out licensed slops is Bandai. I can't really think of even average licensed game released by them, they just used their license and commissioned TOSE or other third-party developer to quickly make a game off a popular anime franchise or whatever.

So what makes a good licensed game? The way how gameplay ties in with the characters and settings of the franchise, even if it doesn't result in the greatest experience of all time. Just don't fuck it up like most Bandai titles or aformentioned A Week of Garfield and you're good. Why do you think fucking Pepsiman is so remembered among the retrogaming community? Because this game is a well done tie-in to the Pepsiman commercials - put another character without the catchy theme song and all the ridiculous shit that happens in the game and all the magic is gone.

>>10559210
I’d put the quality of the old Capcom games down to the fact that, since they were developed first and foremost as arcade games (I’m assuming you’re referring to the Marvel crossover fighting games), they HAVE to be good enough to keep people coming back to spend money. A home console developer only needs your money once, even if you hate it he already got paid. The arcade developer needs you constantly coming back for more. In other words, an arcade developer has a financial interest in you having fun.

>>10559927
>How do you exactly make a game about a guy who's impervious to nearly anything that could kill a regular man?
All enemies have kryptonite bullets. Problem solved.

>>10558724
Superman 64 is notoriously bad; but that’s because of WB and not the developers. If you play the leaked betas, two completely different games. One feels like an episode of S:TAS and one is what we got.

But not all licensed games are bad; plenty of licensed games that are great.

>>10558724
>Why were some licensed games so horrible?
they bait parents onto buying crap made with 5 dollars

If you listen to what people cite as "so bad about Superman 64," it's just people parroting ignorant opinions.

>you have to fly through hoops
Uhh okay? Sounds like a skill issue.

>there's green fog everywhere
They called it kryptonite fog to give a story excuse for two things every game has to take into consideration: draw distance (hardware limitation) and making it so that Superman can actually die in combat.

I urge anyone who hasn't played it themselves to emulate it and see for themselves, just try not to get filtered by the hoops ;)

Plenty of licensed games have been great over the years.
What happens is everyone has that one traumatic memory of buying something because they liked the license, and the game being terrible, so the common "gamer wisdom" of licensed games being bad takes form.
I wouldn't say on the whole, licensed games are better or worse than anything else. Disney and Looney Tunes licensed games from the 16-bit era are some of the most lavishly produced platformers you'll find. Way better than like Kid Chameleon, or Vector Man, or Mr Nuts, or any of that shit.

>>10560751
I never played it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's just an okay N64 game, that people got overhyped for.
Flying through rings doesn't sound that bad. That just sounds like Pilotwings.

>>10559927
>How do you exactly make a game about a guy who's impervious to nearly anything that could kill a regular man?
Score attack game like Star Fox 64, you play for one day and try to fuck up as many purse thieves and bank robbers as possible. Playable area's a city with different districts and with some random events going on like in KAR City Trial.

>>10559927
you play as clark Kent and the entire game is trying to hide. your superpowers from everyone. its a puzzle game

>>10558724
Shit managememt

Apparently DC constantly got in their the way of the devs trying to actually make the game they wanted. They were hamstrung every step of the way and while Superman PS1 isn't perfect, it IS a lot closer to what they had in mind.

>>10560751
>you have to fly through hoops
The irony is the rings are the best part of the game, because it's the only time the game doesn't completely shit itself trying to get you to do something. You breathe a sigh of relief whenever you're in a ring section because at least the game will never glitch out and make beating the level impossible in a game with 0 mid-stage checkpoints, while you're doing rings.

>>10558729
this isn't really true - X-Men 1 & 2, Blade and Spiderman 1 & 2 were all well before Ironman and they are all good

I think the main thing here is people thought the license itself would sell the game rather than the game, so they had no reason to be creative as people were gonna buy it anyway (just like you see with the Pokemon series)

>>10558724
This: >>10562896
>people thought the license itself would sell the game rather than the game, so they had no reason to be creative
Companies outside of the gaming industry back had a preconception that video games were just toys or fads, so they approached it the same way they did actual toys. Just make cheap shit and toss it onto retail shelves and kids who watch the cartoons and movies on TV will flock to it.

>>10558724
>Why were some licensed games so horrible? Wouldn't having the licensor have to approve the game mean that they should be higher qualit than normal games?

Because 'lowest bidder' developers and publishers like Titus were there to exploit the well known brands. Titus was truly a D-level developer/ publisher. Glad that they never stayed in business.

>>10562896
>>10562901
>>10562990
Except that's not even what happened with Superman 64. The story behind is actually pretty funny, DC wanted Titus to give up the rights so they sell it to someone else, they did this by being as intrusive and restrictive as possible, anytime the devs wanted to have superman do something, DC said, "oh yeah, go out and find a comic book page where superman did that thing, this included things like punching things, swimming, and picking up cars!", but Titus didn't give in and finished the game, despite all the bullshit, and as bad as it turned out, you gotta respect them for that

>>10558724
Tie-ins were generally just treated like break-even advertisements so they were given minimal budgets, time, and devs

Licensed games and their quality or lack thereof depends on multiple factors including the developer and how much the license owner is willing to spend. Also some properties just make a better video game than others.

>all those TMNT and Batman games in the late 80s-early 90s
Those were ultra-hot properties so a lot more effort was put into them plus those particular franchises were practically born for video games.
>that NES Gilligan's Island game
Made on a $20 budget because who gaf about Gilligan's Island let alone think it would make a good game.

Money

>>10564293
tbf, when Supes 64 came out I'm pretty sure S:TAS had JUST finished airing and it was actually a pretty damn popular show for kids.

>>10564293
On the other hand the Simpsons was also massive in the early 90s but didn't really get decent games because it didn't really work as a video game.

>>10564312
Simpsons Arcade is...fine. Like it has a lot of problems but it's a perfectly serviceable beatemup. But yeah, I'd argue the Simpsons didn't get good games until the PS2 era

The Superman and Spider Man Atari 2600 games weren't bad for what they were.

>>10558724
Because you're a weeb nerd who hates square jaws. There were good licensed games, a lot were bad but there were good.

>>10558729
>Comic books were almost universally regarded as bottom-of-the-barrel trash prior to the Ironman movie.
Funny since Iron Man isn't even a top 10 comic book movie, it just appeals most to plebs.

>TMNT
>The Crow
>Batman
>Batman Begins
>The Dark Knight
>Spider-Man
>Spider-Man 2
>Superman
>Superman 2
>X-Men 2
All better than Iron Man, and really any MCU movie. Only the first two Captain America movies really stand out from the MCU as particularly great.

>>10558729
>were
They still are by anyone with a brain

>>10564374
>t.elitist /lit/bro

Does the MvC series count as a licensed work if half the cast is Capcom characters? Because if it does, we didn't have a bad game in that series until Infinite.

>>10564381
More likely, deluded manga fan

>>10558729
The Chris Reeves Superman movies were universally loved by every American regardless of age, race, creed, or religion.
t. old beaner boomer

>>10564362
>TMNT
>>The Crow
Most normies don't even know these are comic movies along with movies like Men in Black, they just use it interchangeably with capes and vice versa

>>10564327
The Spiderman 2600 game is good for what it is, an arcadey 70's game on consoles

>>10564231
>muh DC executive
Rather explain Robocop then?

>>10559462
how poor were you growing up

>>10565309
Contrarianism is a serious disease

>>10558729
Superman, Batman, and Spider-man movies were all pretty well regarded. And it's an admission of retardation to think comics being and end with capeshit. Faggots like you only needed to open their mouths after MCU flooded the market

>>10564362
>Because you're a weeb nerd who hates square jaws.

>>10559210
>>10559948
The Capcom Marvel fighting games weren't bad because the guys making them were actual westaboos into Marvel comics at the time, the idea of making an X-men fighting game came after a guy was translating comics into Japanese to share with everyone at the office
They put the same effort into making the Jojo fighting game too
Konami though, they were making games for literally every show even ones that didn't came out yet, which is why the Simpsons beat em up had some weird things

>>10559927
Bandai was the LJN of Japan

>>10565685
She's cute

>>10564362
>>10565752
We get it you like men.

>>10565770
Just saying, anime character designs are feminine. No getting around it.

>>10565782
We get it you've not watched anything other than Pokemans.

>>10558724
Superman is an exceptionally-egregious case because you have mediocre, inexperienced devs trying their best to put-out something passable as you can clearly see in the 1998 beta build, and then the license holders wanna be big cunts towards the devs trying to sit there and say "Superman's not allowed to punch people" and other stupid horseshit like that and you have a surefire recipe for disaster. It's like the devs designed the game begging people to put it back on the shelf and just walk away lol

>>10558724
>Wouldn't having the licensor have to approve the game mean that they should be higher qualit than normal games?
Have you never seen the zelda CDi games?

>>10558724
For the same reason FIFA always outsold PES despite the latter having better gameplay. People wanted to play out licenced content so they're gonna buy the game with licences.

>>10559927
its pretty funny you bring up pepsiman in the same post you say superman being invincible when pepsiman is unironically the framework for a good superman game
>pepsi/superman, theres a bunch of people in trouble at X location
>bunch of shit tries to slow you down but can't actually stop you, the only thing that can is failing to save the people in time, deal with the shit in the way using your powers

you could make some kind of crazy skating/rhythm influenced game all about using powers and resolving problems along the way to dealing with they key people and still have a fun game where you can't die assuming we cant just pull a dragon ball Z and make you exclusively fight enemies who could kill you, DC comics is just a dogshit company that doesn't care because capeshit is a creativity vaccum and has been for about 50 years

>>10566070
>and has been for about 50 years
Not really, all the best comics are from the 60s-80s. Comics really became total shit with the 00s.

>>10566818
>really became total shit with the 00s
along with games, movies, music, anime

>>10564312
Should have made Adventure games. Even a Pacman 2 style thing on consoles could have been cool.
I do not get the insistence on trying to make The Simpsons (which is essentially a sitcom) work as an action game. It clearly doesn't work, and yet they tried to do it like ten times.

>>10565281
I mean, the game may not be fun, but you DO actually control like Robocop would. Robocop in the movies is a slow walking turret. Sadly that doesn't translate very well into being fun gameplay, which is why the new game doesn't really move like how Robocop would.

>>10558724
I think Superman was the super hero that got the most unlucky really, despite also being licensed video games at a time where those mostly sucked and all, Spider-Man and Batman had a ton of decent titles back then, and even in this century, I hope Superman gets a good one soon.

>>10569225
>Superman gets a good one soon
Let say Nintendo EPD do the development or undefeated: genesis

>>10558729
With this shitty zoomer take, it would seem that, there's no time to waste

>>10558729
Retard
>>10558724
Video games industry used to be way smaller than most properties they licensed so the demands from the licensor will often drown out the needs of the developer and clueless upper management will force them to rush something out in an unreasonable time frame. Superman 64 is a perfect example of this exact thing actually.

>>10559462
I know this is bait but even its own devs think it sucked

>>10558724
I can't think of a single licensed Disney game that's bad. They're all at least mediocre and often great.

>>10570480
I remember the SNES port of Timon & Pumbaa's Jungle Games was terrible, but the PC version was fun. Definitely a case of a bad port on an ill-suited platform rather than a bad game though.

>>10558724
What makes Superman 64 even worse are indications that they had something big and open world planned for it. It's evident from the way the outside areas were built and the missions as well, so there was something ambitious going on at some point that they just scrapped and turned to dogshit.
This game is dogshit, is what I mean.

>>10558724
The IP holders probably viewed video games the same way they viewed Happy Meal toys.

>>10570480
Fantasia for the megadrive is garbage.

>>10559481
>It is not. It is a released beta.

exact other way around. they had a beta that was a lot more complex and ambitious and actually more fun to play. then the licensor told them that Superman can't do this, can't do that, etc etc, and they had to dumb down the game until it was just superman flying hoops in kryptonite fog.

it's like in cartoons where they can't have the bad guys using actual firearms, so everyone uses rayguns and lasers. that's what happens with licensed properties, you have to adhere to a lot of dumb rules like that which prevent you from doing an interesting game. I'm still surprised that Genesis Aladdin allowed you to use a scimitar to fight hordes of the sultans soldiers.

>>10564362
don't forget The Mask, The Shadow, and maybe even Judge Dredd but Stallone's Ego derailed that one.

>>10572641
Meanwhile X-men had an episode where Wolverine finds religion around the same time lol

>>10572641

The saying is that the suits were well aware of how stupid those restrictions are and actually used them deliberately to sabotage Titus because they were grumpy about giving the license and afterwards would have preferred someone else and hoped the developers would jump so they could give it to the other ones instead.

>>10572956
Why though? Corporate politics are so fucking gay and petty

>>10565215
Harley Quinn own very first debut:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtgCFKb0kU4&si

>>10558724
Because Titus Games is a strong contender for worst publisher ever.

>>10558740
That game was an apology to the fans for the previous hulk game

>>10558724
short answer there wasn't as much quality control back then.

>>10558729
maybe in the 90s when marvel & DC had to be as toyetic as possible to keep the lights on but superman, batman, spider-man & even X-men are like four of the biggest properties ever even compared to most of the MCU stuff.

marvel wouldn't have tried to replace X-men with inhumans to spite FOX or sony wouldn't be holding on to spider-man's movie rights till the end of time if that wasn't true.

>>10565215
i feel like the donner superman movies ruined superman in the same way batgod fanwanking & nolan ruined batman or retards thinking that flash villains all have to be speedsters ruined flash.

these movies are why people complain about superman being a "boring boyscout" but at the same time those same people throw a bitchfit when he's not 1:1 christopher reeves. nobody knows what they want with superman.

>>10572641
>>10572956
>they had a beta that was a lot more complex and ambitious and actually more fun to play. then the licensor told them that Superman can't do this, can't do that, etc etc, and they had to dumb down the game until it was just superman flying hoops in kryptonite fog.
reminds me of some of the problems that mortal kombat vs DC had. which kinda illustrates how badly DC fails at marketing their character compared to marvel.

outside of censored fatalities characters were cut because of DC. most of the first injustice's roster was holdovers from MKvsDC while red hood, dr. fate & swamp thing were originally suppose to be DLC for the first game.