/vr/ - Retro Games

Both these enormous Trinitrons are in Columbus, Ohio at the Goodwill on Morse. The SD one is $20 and this HD one with remote is $25.

I provide this info just in case my focus or geotags aren't as sharp as I think they are.

>>1017652
Does CRT automatically mean Zero delay?
Because I have what I'm pretty sure is a CRT that accepts Component and HDMI, and it has delay compared to my other, smaller CRT that doesn't accept those.

Both these enormous Trinitrons are in Columbus, Ohio at the Goodwill on Morse. The SD one is $20 and this HD one with remote is $25.

I provide this info just in case my focus or geotags aren't as sharp as I think they are

If it has hdmi then its probably HD and if its HD it'll have delay on sd signals

I have an LG Flatron with component input, but it has this issue where the image appears cropped on the top and bottom. What could be causing this, and how do I fix it?

>>1017667
Sounds like overscan. See if you can it on a menu (possibly service menu) and turn it off

>>1017673
>See if you can it on a menu
>See if you can it

Am I being tricked?
Anyways I searched through the menu and nothing worked

What type of black&white TVs do you recommend for first and second generation games?

>>1017660

With some later CRT's they can tend to incorporate fancy digital picture processing features with names like "Super Black" or "Ultra Sharp" these are all basically bullshit and you should turn them off..
However sometimes this tends to be further compounded by some of these later sets also having a pretty shitty picture without these extra gimmicks, so a lot of the time you are better off if you get a fairly unused CRT from the 80's or early 90's if you can.

>>1017691
Why do you want to use b&a TVs for second gen? Basically something that old you just want it to be in good shape and never having been exposed to moisture

>>1017681
Check the service menu. It'll be hidden, google it for your particular TV.

>>1017708
Because the Atari has a special mode for B&W.

Since in my country there was mass jump for that MPEG4 shit I've got this beast.
Brand is Graetz. First time I ever heard about them. It's some German TV, not much info about this model.
It's poorly equipped with inputs, only SCART and RF.
Quality of image on PS1 and Saturn via SCART is very good.
Only on N64 via RCA image looks average at best. Image is a bit jittery .
It's not Trinitron or Wega but since i got it for free I can't grumble.

>>1017669
Do HD CRTs have the least delay out of all HD options?

any difference with a flat screen crt since that's what I have

>>1017652
Recommend me an actually GOOD CRT.
With sharp image , preferably with lots of inputs.

>>1017792
>It's poorly equipped with inputs, only SCART and RF.
But it's still better than most american TVs from the 80-90s.
Also your SCART input can do RGB for sure.

>>1017803
It's a little more sensitive (impacts and hits) than a curved ones.

Are computer CRT monitors acceptable?

Is there, like, some sort of Chart or website or listing that shows the different types/eras of TVs, and their pros/cons in terms of picture, inputs, and delay/input latency?


I've been going nuts over input delay recently. My wiiu has a delay with its Virtual Console that aggravates me. I hooked it up to a small CRT (yellow composite cable) and I notice an improvement.

Are there TVs that DON'T introduce lag with SD signals?

Talked to some cool people yesterday. Was wondering if anyone else had any tips for getting a clear image out of an 87 RF only TV? Had it clear for a second after dabbing some parts with rubbing alcohol.... my picture is 90% picture 10%, trying to get crystal clear quality.

>>1017862
10% static*

>>1017862
>some cool people
Wrong, it was only me.
However, did you had any luck getting the channel knob off.

>>1017836
Pic related is what the gamepad was doing.

It's interesting that the CRT was ahead of the gamepad.

I have two theories:
1. sending an SNES signal out at anything other than SD takes upscaling and processing, causing delay
2. SNES games aren't built for WiiU gamepad streaming, and therefore gamepad causes delay

When I used the WiiU for actual WiiU games and not Virtual Console, it seemed fine.


Does anyone know what delay an original Super Nintendo with Mario World, with the BEST signal to the BEST CRT would be? I need something to compare to, because I'm considering ditching Virtual Console and Emulation entirely and going pure hardware.

>>1017812
Well yeah but some RCA at the from would be nice for quick plug in
Since I got A/V selector 5 inputs(RCA, S-Video, SCART and even spdif to 1 SCART output I don't give a shit
>>1017813
If you want to emulate I'd say it's your best choice. It's also great with older consoles but that in most cases involves soldering or buying some scalers/converters
>>1017836
maybe this will help
http://www.displaylag.com/display-database/

>>1017813

It depend of the one you're choosing. C64 monitors are pretty cool for composite and S-Video, Amiga and Atari monitors are great RGB monitors, PC VGA/SVGA monitors are a bit specific and are mostly good with /vr/-related PC games, PC CGA/EGA monitors are only useful with CGA and EGA games if you have the specific chipset that goes with it. I never used an Amstrad monitor, so I can't tell if they're good enough or no...

>>1017878
>Does anyone know what delay an original Super Nintendo with Mario World, with the BEST signal to the BEST CRT would be?

A handful of microseconds. For all practical purposes you can treat it as instantaneous.

>>1017913
Now, does mario actually JUMP in that timeframe?
Because with some games certain moves have 'delay' built into them.

>>1017878
I've beaten SMW on Wii U gamepad and didn't notice any latency or button lag. That dude could be living in an apartment with a ton of wi-fi routers and cell phones for all we know

>>1017940
>that dude
it was me
Wait, you mean that wireless devices in and around the house can slow down the gamepad?
There weren't many at all of those around.

1920x1440 circa 2001 CRT here. Just want to show my support. Sad that it is still irreplaceable.

>>1017867
I ended up crashing at my bros house, but got a soldering iron and solder.
Opinions?
$23.

>>1017971
My opinion is that for $23 you could have had that 36" Wega in the OP

>>1017971
The fine tip looks good enough for resoldering purposes.
And i googled the solder, nothing bad is said about it.
>$23.
In this moment it equals 17,19€, i wouldn't complain for this price.

>>1017998
But a solder iron can be quite useful, at least when he keeps practicing in the future, he could fix some stuff by himself.
Also who guarantees that the Wega has not any 'tiny' faults that can turn into 'big' faults (yes, i know that TVs from Sony are very good and reliable but still, it could happen).

>>1018048
Yeah I plan on replacing my Sega Game Gears audio capacitors with my new iron, but that's a later project, TV first...

>>1018065
Some people are always grumpy about it when someone spends money for fixing their old stuff instead of buying a new replacement device.

>>1018074
What a shame, still not sure if its the coaxial input that's giving me background snow or the tuner..... or dry joints. Probably a combination of all - but dabbing down the RF looking things really seemed to temporarily fix my problem.

Guys, Guys, I heard that connecting things via VGA rather than HDMI or Component can decrease input lag, even in HDTVs and such.

How true is this?

Seeing as these threads are about getting the best video output for /vr/, can I ask how to get the best audio out of old consoles?

An example of the poor audio is the Mega Drive (Genesis) 2. My console has a horrifying buzzing when it's on. On some games (such as vectorman) the buzzing can be heard loudly above the music.

So /vr/, what's the best way to eliminate this kind of thing? I currently use RGB SCART through my TV speakers but it buzzes if I link the TV up to external speakers too.

Every console has this buzzing, though with some you can't hear it unless you put your ear up to the speaker. All I'm asking is for a way to reduce the buzzing to an acceptable level.

>>1018087
I have this EXACT same problem too Anon and would love to figure out how to fix it. I can put the audio level up a bit and the music in the game drowns out the buzzing but when I turn it up, the buzzing overrides the game audio. I too am using a RGB SCART through my TV speakers.

I've tried using a grounding adapter for electricity, plugging into different inputs etc.

I watched this video, and it could be our problem although I am unsure.

http://www.youtube.com/
watch?v=-r8mBuQv6es

>>1018084
>dabbing down the RF looking things really seemed to temporarily fix my problem.
Hmm, when this means that you couldn't reach the inside of the RF tuner, then the problem could be somewhere else.
But you said wiggling the channel knob seem to affect the noise, that means that the tuner box also have faults.
However resolder more spots than necessary, that should improve your situation.

>>1018085
When it's a CRT, then it could be true.

>>1018087
>Every console has this buzzing, though with some you can't hear it unless you put your ear up to the speaker.
This could be a Groundloop.
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_loop_(electricity)

>>1018148
Yeah If I go from channel 2 to channel 3 directly its staticy as hell, however when I wiggle if for a few seconds it becomes like 90% visible.

>>1018128
That's very interesting Anon. Do you get different amounts of buzz with different games? Sonic 3 has pretty much no buzz at all while Vectorman's buzz is MUCH louder than the one in that video.

Only thing is, I had my Mega Drive cable custom made. It's very well shielded and grounded.

>>1018148
I had that theory as well, but I tried switching about the power sockets and nothing even lessens it never mind removes it.

One idea I had was to connect the consoles straight up to an amplifier. That would require some pretty strange cables though. I think the buzz might come from the console's audio output being too quiet. Thus upping the volume would make it buzz a lot.

Any more thoughts?

>>1018128
When the cable is poorly shielded, then the video signal(s) could interfere with the audio lines.
I also made a post about this in the previous thread: >>997637

>>1018164
It would be not a bad idea to remove that tuner from the TV and inspect the circuit for dry solder joints.

>>1018180
>Any more thoughts?
Maybe the TVs audio amps could cause that.

>>1017935

SMBW has no built-in delay on jumping. You push the button and Mario jumps.

>>1018180
Well, I have noticed that when where are plenty of "whites" on the screen there is more buzz. For example, when playing Grandia, the buzzing would increase when white text from talking to anyone would pop up, but would vanish when finished talking.

I have my SCART audio cables plugged into a receiver / amp but I can't figure out any other way to get sound out of the SCART without doing that.

Perhaps if there was some way to put the audio through my PVM and then out to my receiver, that would eliminate it? As of right now, I have the red and white going straight from the SCART cable to my reciever. Hmm...

>>1018204
Ill try to make a video tonight and put it on YouTube about the 10% static I'm getting, ill post the link here later.

>>1018214
good to know

>>1018225
I get the same thing with white screens. That would suggest to me some interference in the cable or something on the console's end. Anyone else had experiences of this with different cabling?

Hey nerds, I heard that S-Video improves picture quality for N64, but that those universal ones (the ones that can be used on multiple consoles, ie gamecube, n64, xbox, and ps2) DON'T improve picture quality all that much.

How much of this is true?

>>1018264
Those crap cables would probably make the quality worse actually because they'd be poorly shielded.

Also, be careful with nintendo multi-av cables. They have to be specially built to work a lot of the time. Meaning cheap cables will NOT work.

>>1018225
>I have the red and white going straight from the SCART cable to my reciever.
So your RGB cable has a little box with RCA jacks in the middle. My friend and i also has exactly that cable, and more worse problems. I did something more simple to his cable and to mine see the top of >>1018204.

>>1018264
I heard that Nintendo left out some components (in specific revisions) for getting a correct S-Video signal.

Also in the previous thread:
>>992060

>AFAIK not a single manufacturer makes properly wired multi av cables. They are all composite on one or both C/Y pins.

and my answer >>992142

>>They are all composite on one or both C/Y pins.
>Composite on the C pin shouldn't cause that much problems, because the part of the TV that converts the input to RGB is probably going to ignore the low frequency parts (Luminance) of the chroma signal anyway.

>Composite on the Y pin is a total fuckup, because the color sub-carrier will be visible on the screen. And that does not look nice. The reason why Y/C exists, is to bypass the composite Luminance bandwidth limit. Which results into a quality sharper than the plain composite.

>>1018274
>>1018264
So does anyone know where I could find a good Svideo cable for the N64?

>>1018293
>(In specific revisions)
What, like later models of the console?

>>1018302
Yes, actually.

http://www.consolegoods.co.uk/

That site has the only working cables i've found aside from 1st party cables.

>>1018293
This is what I'm using for my PVM. I am using the attached red and white cables to run into my receiver and I still experience the buzzing. My RGB cable from my PS1 to the female SCART goes into this, and then the picture shown is attached to my PVM.

>>1018302
>>1018314
ALSO, (sage for maybe off topic) what is this "RGB" mod for the N64 I keep hearing about?
Will it improve picture quality?
Will it create input lag/delay/latency?
Does it plug into a specific type of tv or monitor?

>>1018327
It will improve picture quality.
It will not create delay.
You need to have an RGB capable display (SCART preferably)

Only problem is it's incredibly hard to do and almost impossible to do for PAL systems. Look it up if you want to know more.

>>1018314
Newer (i think) PAL revisions.
>http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=3460.0

>>1018326
Is the cable from the console thinner than one to your PVM?

>>1018327
>Will it improve picture quality?
Very much.
>Will it create input lag/delay/latency?
Not much (my own engineered circuit has like 80 nanoseconds from the digital video stream), but there is a new board (soldered inside the console) that add HDMI and VGA outputs to the N64.
>Does it plug into a specific type of tv or monitor?
Every TV that supports RGB.
Let me show it you.
My TV is a Sony KV-C2521D.
>http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/sony_kv_c2521d.html
The OSD symbol means RGB inputs selected.

>>1018341
>impossible to do for PAL systems
I did it, but i'm not gonna post the schematic.

>>1018359
>Newer PAL revisions
I've got a U.S. console, so that won't be a problem.

>80 nanoseconds
Well, that doesn't seem like an issue

>HDMI port
What, like 1080p?

So I'm guessing these RGB capable televisions are difficult to come by, and they might not also include composite or s-video inputs.
Does SCART have anything to do with this?

>>1018401
Pretty much every TV that has SCART will support RGB, because SCART is one of the few (and best) ways to send an RGB signal. If you're in Europe SCART is incredibly common whilst in the US It's much rarer.

So if you ARE in Europe there's a 99% chance your TV can take RGB.

>>1018359
>add HDMI outputs to the wii

Where did you find this at?

The guide I found simply used the existing output, and required a SCART cable.

>>1018401
>So I'm guessing these RGB capable televisions are difficult to come by, and they might not also include composite or s-video inputs.
Depends where you live.

>Does SCART have anything to do with this?
Allot it's basically like VGA with audio.
The RGB levels for SCART and VGA are so similar that it is possible to hook up a PC to a SCART TV (only if the graphics card can do 15.625-15.73khz horizontal).

>>HDMI port
>What, like 1080p?
1080p i don't think so, but 480p or 480i for sure
VGA one here:
>http://forums.benheck.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=43034&sid=2eb217ee629b9af0bb6acfacf8be70b7&start=15
I think i saw somewhere one with HDMI.

>>1018415
>>add HDMI outputs to the wii
I meant N64 not Wii.
The internal digital video stream format of the N64 has been reverse-engineered.
>http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/n64rgb/n64rgb.html

>>1018423
>I think i saw somewhere one with HDMI.
Maybe not.
But i found it and it's not complete.
>http://retroactive.be/tech.php
inb4 DVI
HDMI is based of DVI, it only has a different connector and audio.

>>1018410
So I should order one cheap from a European seller? On like Ebay?

>>1018423
So it's
Composite < Svideo < VGA/RGB
Is that right?

>>1018440
A CRT is heavy and shipping them overseas is sure expensive (more than the actual TV) and not to mention the mains power difference.
A RGB->Component transcoder with a TV with Component inputs is probably easier to do.

>>1018453
Right, Component is quite similar to RGB just a different Color format at the same bandwidth.

>>1018440
You mean a TV? Yeah but be careful as the shipping could be ridiculous.

Also, get a Sony. They often have multiple ports that support RGB whilst other brands will have one port.

>>1018460
>RGB->Component transcoder
That sounds like it would create input latency.
Also, TVs that accept Component are usually HD, and therefore create input latency especially when receiving a 480p image.

>>1018464
>>1018440
Wait wait wait

Do american products work on European TVs?
Don't European TVs do like, 50 frames per second as opposed to 60?

>>1018460
>>1018464
Also, would the RGB or VGA modded N64 be comparable to the Wii virtual console?
The VC actually RENDERS games at 480p, does the N64 do this?

>>1018483
>That sounds like it would create input latency.
Not much actually (unless you scale it), look up some circuits about that.
>links from the prev thread
>http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/interfaces/diytranscoder.html
>http://www.mikrocontroller.net/attachment/11797/rybyrgb.pdf
>http://elm-chan.org/works/yuv2rgb/rgb2yuv.png
>http://elm-chan.org/works/yuv2rgb/report.html
>Also, TVs that accept Component are usually HD, and therefore create input latency especially when receiving a 480p image.
True, but it's not impossible to modify a old TV to have better inputs.

>>1018487
Depends, but to my knowledge.
All European Sonys from the 90s can do 60hz just fine (don't expect them to get NTSC-3.58 color right, when using Y/C or CVBS) and most other sets from the 2000s can also do it.

>>1018502
No, the board has a scandoubler implemented.

>>1018487

Old TVs run at 50hz yeah. My 2002 TV runs at 100hz though.

I have heard that some PAL TVs cannot accept NTSC signals though, so be careful.

Also, be sure that you can power the TV, with the different voltages and all.

>>1018510
>Not much
How much we talking about.
Like, nanoseconds, or FRAMES?

>>1018518
>My 2002 TV runs at 100hz though.
unrelevant

>I have heard that some PAL TVs cannot accept NTSC signals though, so be careful.
60hz and NTSC color encoding are two different things.


>>1018528
>nanoseconds
Probably that, but a single OpAmp does not have much, basically nothing.

I asked this at the end of the last thread but.

Does anybody know if theres a service menu reset code for sansui dtv2760A ? I ended up messing the geometry in the service mode but theres no reset option so im assuming its some sort of code inside the service menu. Unfortunately unplugging it for hours didn't do anything and theres nothing in the manual I found online..hell I cant even find where I found the service menu code ;_;

>>1018423
I'm a bit new to this, what is the signifigance of the article you linked?
>members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/n64rgb/n64rgb.html

>>1019164
There probably isn't. You might MIGHT be able to find out the default values but I wouldn't be surprised if they have to be tweaked for individual sets at the factory. That's why we always say to write down the values in the service menu before you start tinkering with them. Also why the service menu is hidden, to keep regular consumers from fucking up their tvs.

>>1019256
Looks like somebody created a PIC program that will convert native N64 video format to RGB, although if you live in the US it shouldn't be too hard for you to find an N64 that has RGB anyway.

I dunno what the guy you're replying to was talking about HDMI for.

>>1019351
Supposedly, he had a way to natively output HDMI through the N64.

I suppose it's feasibly possible. There's a guy online working on a DVI/HDMI solution board, but it's still WIP.

I would do the RGB mod, but that also requires buying a SCART cable and converter to Component/HDMI, which is too much for me right now.

>>1017836
No input delay can be achieved by outputting a real 15 Khz signal from a PC equipped with a Radeon HD 4xxx or a 9000 series and some others. Controllers must be hooked up with jpac style 1000 mhz USB controls. Vsync disabled, output sync of signal must be equal to native console.

I'm moving into my dorm room for college and I have a problem. I already have a flatscreen hdtv but I don't want to play my genesis on a non-crt.
I could take my spare crt as well, but it only accepts rf.
So what's worse, genesis on a non-crt with av cable or crt with rf?

>>1019532
Well it probably depends very much on the respective displays. Hook them up side by side and see for yourself. IMO it's always good to have a TV and a monitor both but I'm very much a multitasker.

>>1018204
>>1018235

OK I made this quick video to show a bit more of what I'm talking about.

>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXys51fNG9I

>>1021159
I love it how you say that a plural number of people was answering you, when the truth is that it was only me who answered you. (but no offense, i'm posting under the Anonymous name like many other people here, so it's hard to tell)

However the static doesn't not seem that terrible (to me), but the 'U' probably stand for UHF and selecting it bypasses the VHF tuner (the upper knob) with the UHF tuner (other knob).

And your problem description with the knob clearly matches a so called 'scratchy potentiometer'.
The problem with this is simple, there's probably dust or dirt between the wiper and the restive surface.
That's why touching or wiggling it, makes it better or worse because the wiper does not conduct properly.
>http://www.michaelshell.org/gadgetsandfixes/fixingscratchypots.html
But dry solder joints (inside the tuner) could also cause that.
I think there's no other way around it, you have to remove and open it up.

>>1021204
Not sure how I'm going to remove these knobs....
This might take me a while.

>>1021204
>>1021231
Fixed the picture by moving this cable in various directions, will u electrical tape to hold in place.

>>1021292
This could also make sense because of the force needed to turn the knob.
Tape could hold it in place, but it's not a so good solution (it may come loose after some time).
I think that those black cables have RCA plugs, you could replace it with a short and strong shielded RCA cable.
But i'm sure you can pull it out, post a pic of the connector.

>>1021336
They're soldered in. But they look like RF cables to me. I guess problem solved!

>>1021346
But the other looks like RCA to me.
However, have you resoldered the dry solder joints on the main circuit board yet?

>>1021358
No wait I think you're right.
No I haven't fixed the dry joints yet, I don't want to resolder anything that doesn't need it. Dry solder joints are pin shaped instead of cone shaped and have circles around them right?

>>1021373
Yes, but do it anyway.

I tell you a TV brand that is notorious for having dry solder joints.
The modern Grundig CRTs (in the silver case) from the 2000s made by the turkish (i think it is) company BEKO.
As soon the TV starts to malfunction it's ALWAYS (95%) caused by dry solder joints.
And sometimes it happens that a few components in the high voltage area get blown up or burned because a other protection component (which purpose is to prevent this damage) had no contact or a very high resistance.
This a good reason resolder any dry solder joints when you spot them.

>>1021380
Should I just resolder EVERYTHING?

>>1021394
If you want, but resolder the ones you see. (because you set is working fine with them, but so long)

>>1021409
I don't see any with circles around them but I do see some that look more pin shaped than cone shaped. Just solder those?

>>1021427
It wouldn't be a bad idea, but CAREFULLY (avoid touching metal surfaces) check if the component at the other side is loose.
However the dry joints weren't so much related to your problem, you can leave it so.
And 5-10 years later, you should inspect the main board again (even if you don't have a problem with the TV).
Because you could oversaw some little dry joints or new ones just developed.

>>1021458
OK so pass up the soldering for now but inspect it every few years, got it.

>>1017652
>>1017664
I was in town and thought I'd snag that SD Triniton, but I got there 15 minutes after the goodwill closed.

I found 3 sony trinitrons today. One of them was a wega flat screen with s-video and hdmi, and the other two were smaller without s-video or anything. Honestly I really wanted that wega but it wouldn't fit in my car. So I got the second biggest. Oh yeah, all of them had kv model..

My Toshiba CRT from 2004 works great, but I'm having an issue with the top of the screen where it's doing some sort of reflection thing that covers about 20% - 30% of the screen.

Can somebody help me with this?

Sony Trinitron 35KG vs Panasonic plasma monitor 25KG

Our wiki has some pages that need some work.

http://emulation-general.wikia.com/wiki/Display_FAQ
http://emulation-general.wikia.com/wiki/CRT_TVs

Hi /vr/. I have a KV-27FS13 with a few issues. There is a bit of color distortion (small bands) in certain areas around the edges and, worst of all, blur all around the edges. The geometry at the bottom is also kind of banded(?), but that's endemic to these models.
If I can fix it, I'd like to know how. I can get into the service menu and mess around, but I don't know how to calibrate.
Or, would I be better off looking for another? Getting a good CRT these days is such a hassle, but judging from the center area of this one, they look beautiful.

Oh, and those two huge WEGAs up there? They can't do 240p. The upscaling to 480i/p is fine though, from what I've heard.

>>1025148
The OP one is an SD model. No DVI or HDMI or anything. The second one is an HD one but it's still 4:3 and since it was sitting there at the same Goodwill I figured I'd post it too.

Did anybody on /vr/ buy them yet? It would be nice to see some of the tubes I find showing up in the hands of people who care about them.

I found this 20L5 on Craigslist and e-mailed the guy about buying it, but it's late he probably won't get back to me until tomorrow. Does anyone know what that stuff on the top corners of the screen might be? I'm hoping it's just dust or something that could be wiped off, but looking at the picture it almost looks like it's internal damage to the screen. Kind of tough to tell.

>>1025164
Oh, my bad. I'd buy them both if I lived there. I should go hunting around thrift stores too.

>>1025172
See the spots on the case? The spots on the screen look just like that. You'll find out for sure though, be patient. Finding a good CRT is all about patience.

>>1025183
>See the spots on the case? The spots on the screen look just like that. You'll find out for sure though, be patient. Finding a good CRT is all about patience.

Yeah, the spots are what make me think it's something fixable, but I've never seen a spot like that on a CRT and was wondering if anyone was familiar with the kind of damage they could receive. Other pictures of the back clearly show dust so I'm really hoping it's just something that can get cleaned off and not something internally wrong with the screen.

My only issue is that the guy is far away. Like, 100 miles far. I've been looking for a 20L5 for almost an entire year now specifically for their 480p support and finally one pops up when I have the money (He's letting it go for $100 which is a very nice deal).

>>1025194
Is the difference between 480i and 480p (assuming component inputs for both) that drastic?

>>1025198
See, that's the thing. I don't know. I know on an LCD 480p looks much better than 480i but when it comes to comparing them on a CRT -- especially a PVM -- there's very little information. I know that the 20L5s have an ultra high resolution of 800 lines as opposed to, say, the 20M2MDU which is the one I believe KyaDash and a bunch of other anons have, which sport 600 lines

All I can really say so far is that, in comparison to 240p, 480i really doesn't look that good. It's very blurry in comparison. It's difficult to tell by just a picture here, but the increased sharpness 240p allows is very noticeable and I imagine that's largely due to it being progressive as opposed to interlaced. I'd like to shed some light on how the 20L5 does things. How 240p, 480i, and 480p compare on it. Rest assured there will be pictures out the wazoo if I ever get ahold of it.

>>1025248
Keep in mind that anything 6th gen was probably made with 480i in mind, unlike the situation with 240p.

>>1025305
That's very true, but I'm pretty sure 100% of the Dreamcast library is 480p native, also virtually every Xbox game and just about every Gamecube game that matters supports 480p. PS2 seems to be the only system of that generation with questionable 480p support. A shame, but oh well.

Actually, now that I mention it, can the Dreamcast only output 480p through VGA or is there a SCART or RGB equivalent?

I have a JVC Master Command III that only takes RF. Can I get it to take component?

>>1025327
Perhaps, but without any schematic it's hard to tell.
I need more information like the model number, because i can't really find that much on google.
It could help if you open it, and write down (or take pics) all the codes written on the chips.
Because some TVs (commonly 80's and newer) use ICs (Integrated circuit) to convert the CVBS signal (from the tuner) to Component or RGB.

My Sony KV-C2521D (ca. 1991) uses a TDA4650 to convert CVBS/S-Video to YUV, then it goes though a TDA4660 (Delay line for the PAL system) and then it goes into a TDA4580 (converts SCART RGB to YUV internally and then back), here the YUV gets converted into a higher voltage RGB signal (1-10Vp-p, typical are 3 Vp-p).
The higher voltage RGB signal goes through 3 transistor amplifiers to the CRT (last transistor stage is connected to 200V).

>>1025327
It's simpler to get it to take RGB and it's simpler to get /vr/ systems to output RGB.

I hope we're not responsible for people getting electrocuted for discussing these CRT mods and physical adjustments.

>>1026360
I think that the people are going to google 'CRT safety' or similar when they see these high voltage warning stickers on the back of their TV.
Also the first google result is pretty decent.

http://www.reddit.com/r/emulation/comments/1l71vb/what_makes_playing_on_a_crt_better_than_an_hdtv/

>All those brain dead replies

>>1027231
It's not that bad a discussion but point them to the foolz archive of our /vr/ crt threads and they can definitely learn some real shit.

>>1027329
What do I really need to know beyond:
>SD CRT good for SD games,
>aperture grille best grille
>component for everything that doesn't make significant use of dithering
>CRTs have shitloads of problems and getting one with the uniform quality of an LCD is a huge hassle

>>1027352
>CRTs have shitloads of problems

{{citation needed}}

>>1027362
They do. When you get an LCD, all you have to worry about (generally) is backlight bleeding/degradation and dead/stuck pixels. A CRT can have all kinds of distortion, focus, convergence, and geometry issues.
And the tube does just give out over time. It's an inevitability, like hard drive failure. There will be very no well-functioning CRTs in the future, however far away that may be.

So it is my understanding that CRTs are in fact the superior display technology. So an HD CRT with 16:9 aspect ratio would be better than any digital HD display? Is this correct?

>>1027370
LCDs have shorter life spans than CRTs that's a fact.

>>1028053
Well, you can't say that absolutely across the board but dollar for dollar, yes. A $700 CRT will crush a $700 flat panel

>>1028053
There is no simple truth. Both have advantages and disadvantages. The best of both worlds has yet to arrive.

CRTs flicker, if they are not 100Hz. This is a big disadvantage if your eyes are sensitive. They also have better color reproduction. Their geometry can never be perfect, especially with flat panel CRTs, you get weird distortions, especially on the left and right side the picture may be streched, which looks plain weird in scrolling 2D games. They are more prone to functional errors when they are not carefully moved around because they are frail. They also have an image which is viewable from all sides without much alteration in color. Also, most come with a high pitched noise which is intolerable for sensitive ears. Image sharpness is also not on par with HD TFTs/Plasmas, even if you risk your life recalibrating the damn thing over and over.

A TFT/LED/Plasma display has some advantages over this. The steady, non flickering picture is better for your eyes. It reduces strain compared to your standard CRT. The image geometry is PERFECT. Contrast ratio is a big issue, it can never have such a big difference between bright/dark parts of the picture as a CRT and therefore detail gets lost in dark areas. Apart from scaling issues (which may or may not be as severe depending on the model), the digital panel introduces input lag, uneven backlight distribution (on TFTs) and motion blur, which is a pain for scrolling-type 2D games. This may be different between different models.
Also, color reproduction is generally weaker.

There is no cure-all. We have to wait for some time.

>>1017702
wtf, is this the level of expertise around here?

>>1018085
>VGA rather than HDMI
Yeah, possible.

>or Component
Ohhhh boy...this depends on the output device. There should be no difference but it's possible for the source device to be crap enough that there is one.

>>1018264
>those universal ones (the ones that can be used on multiple consoles, ie gamecube, n64, xbox, and ps2) DON'T improve picture quality all that much
They are flawed by design. Unless they feature mechanical switching, they are crap by nature. AFAIK, none do.

>>1019532
1. Play actual retro consoles on an SD CRT.
2. Pick best available input on that display.

This is how your prioritize.

>>1022585
>some sort of reflection thing that covers about 20% - 30% of the screen
Explain!

>>1023696
>need some work
>some
ohhh boy

>>1028102
And you can't play light gun games on your TFT/LED/Plasma display.

>There is no cure-all. We have to wait for some time.
I doubt that the manufacturers actually care for quality, as long retards are buying it.

>>1028093
>LCDs have shorter life spans than CRTs that's a fact.
Yes, when LCDs start to malfunction then they are mostly 4-6 years old. And if the problem is not caused by the power supply or the backlight inverter (fixing blown caps is a 50/50 chance) then it's often (beyond) hopeless.
When CRT TVs start to malfunction then it's very rarely the actual CRT (but 2000s CRTs are a bit more prone to failure than ones from the 80-90s), often it's fixable (and even more if you have the schematic).
And CRTs are more easy to open than LCDs (CRT on table, unscrew and pull the backcover. LCD on table, ????? good luck, watch out and don't scratch it).
My former boss from the TV workshop explained, that the (most) Telefunken sets from the 90s have/are so called long-life CRTs which last about 50 years (i don't clearly remember if he meant the CRT or the whole set).

>>1025148
So, anyone know what I can do here? My ideal CRT is one with component inputs that will last a long time. I'd get a PVM/BVM, but can't find any nearby.

>>1028490
>LCD on table, ????? good luck, watch out and don't scratch it
This. LCDs are often designed not to be serviceable at all because they're so cheap and shitty.

On lots of models, the outer plastic is extremely soft, and you can't open them without prying apart the chassis at the seam, meaning you *will* dent them in multiple places just trying to open them, even if you know exactly where the snaps are inside.

>>1029123
MONITORFAGS OF THE FUTURE

has anyone had any experience with the brand Sylvania?

Recently purchased it at my Goodwill for 10 bones. I'm unsure how to open up any menus or any type of setting.

>>1030501

Try to search for the service manual of the set on google. You might need the model name to to so.

>>1030687

to do*

>>1030501
good lord what is with the border on that tv.

I was lucky enough to recieve a free 19 inch from a neighbor, I was previosuly playing games on this little bastard piece of shit of a 10 inch that Sansui calls a TV. I hate you Sansui.

>>1030501
It's a throwaway brand. Don't expect any useful service menu or easy adjustment.

>>1030706
Pretty much this. It falls into the name brand catagory but its name brand in the same sense as Coby, its well known but I wouldn't buy that shitty piece of plastic mp3 player.

>>1030501

Sylvania is the extreme bargain basement division of Osram. They primarily make harsh and unreliable CFL & LED light bulbs, but they also used to make equally harsh and unreliable TVs, DVD players and netbooks.

Their netbooks were running Windows CE 6.0 in 2012 and were effectively unusable, if you need some measure of how low their standards were.

They've since closed down their consumer electronics division. I can't imagine why.

I was happy to find a Trinitron at Goodwill a few months ago. But recently I began regretting it when I realized that 9 inches or however large it is doesn't really make for a good anything. I can barely see what's going a few feet away on my futon.

It's a shame it's prohibitively expensive to ship CRT TVs.

sanyo flat screen for 10 bucks
yea or nay?

>>1031504
inputs

>>1031504
>>1031514
Other option is a smaller trinitron for the same price

>>1031514
It's got everything you need. It's actually slightly unusual to have component and S-Video on the same TV does the Trinitron have both too? Which fits your space better?

>>1031534
space is non issue

>>1031534
all the trinitrons i've seen that had component also had svideo, maybe it's only unusual for non-sony.

So the Santo TV would be good for retro gaming, provided I have ample space?

>>1031551
sanyo
fucking autocorrect

>>1031534
>It's actually slightly unusual to have component and S-Video on the same TV
No it's not. You might be thinking of cheapo LCDs.

>>1031504
>>1031514
>>1031551
It might be an EDTV or HDTV. Post model #.

>>1031549
My 13" Wega has component but no S-Video.

>>1031926
Uhhh no. I do extensive CRT shopping but I do mainly focus on smallish ones and if they're under 20" they almost never have S-Video.

>>1031960
>if they're under 20" they almost never have S-Video
Of course, but those same units will probably not have component either.

Post the model number of a sub-20" CRT that has component but not S-video.

>>1031960
I get the feeling you're only looking at late-model Sonys if you think this represents the majority enough to make it "rare."

>>1031927
ds22424

>>1032301
*ds24424

>>1032304
online manual search shows that Sanyo has S-video

>yfw you realize every single PVM has a comb filter that automatically turns on whenever it detects an NTSC signal

Damn I just found a free 37" Mitsubishi Diamond View presentation monitor with tons of BNC RGB inputs. Guy talked up how it looked hooked up to his VCR, etc...said he used it as a computer monitor too.

Did more research...turns out it's minimum 24 Khz. The secret is that it line doubles the S-Video input to 31 Khz, hence his VCR claims.

>>1032117
KV-13FS100 for sure, I own one. Also tons of Samsungs.

This is how you connect a Radeon to a PVM. The key here is turning the horizontal and vertical sync into a single sync to put into the Ext Sync hole.

>>1032117
FM15K5
RB15NS

Go ahead and start listing TVs under 20" that have component and S-Video.. We'll see who's list is longer...

>>1032476
I've been wanting one of those Mitsubishis just not so big.

>>1032591
Naw the size makes it good. Check this thread to see a guy successfully connect one to his PC with real 15.7 Khz sync and resolutions. Has pics including close-ups.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=94775.0

>>1032584
Is this really necessary? I always thought you just stuck the signals together.

>>1032117
I'll get you started, looks like Toshiba is the pony to followif you want both component and s-video on small sets. I'm seeing it on model 14AF44

>>1032597
I might swap one of my arcade machine monitors for it but I think it's too big for even that. I've seen that pic of the guy with the 40" Megaview built like a cocktail cabinet. That's pretty sweet.

>>1032607
14AF45 has no S-Video though, but still has component.

>>1032117
RCA in the house. 14F514T has component but lacks S-Video.

>>1032597
Honestly, there's no way I'd turn down a free RGB monitor like that. I'd find a place for it.

Santo TV guy here
I like it!

>>1032636
Looks like a tron to me but I clearly see the Sanyo label. Must be an aperture grille late model

>>1032641
So for 10 bucks a successful purchase was successful?

>>1032626
Telling you dude, the free one isn't like that one, it's 24 Khz minimum. Size matters not, but sync does.

>>1032652
Yeah it looks totally acceptable to me.

>>1032651
Size matters when your wife is getting sick of the CRTs taking up space. I gotta haul one out whenever I haul a new one in these days. Not syncing 15khz ain't cool though.

>>1032574
All late Toshibas and other Orions, all Philips, and all Thomson (RCA, GE) SDTVs with component have s-video.

I've been turning off Vsync in RetroArch lately to try to get games to run at their proper speed. There's no screen tearing with it turned off. Why is this? Also, what is "hard GPU sync"

Playing DoDonPachi on a 27" Tron here with my head cranked to the side...but I want it to run at 57 frames per second. At 60 fps the game is all borked like some hack edition designed to eat quarters.

What do you do when someone selling an RGB monitor won't get back to you on CraigsList? Hunt them down and take it by force? Or offer more money than they're asking or something?

>>1032626
>14F514T
I'll trust you if you have one, but two online listings show it has s-video in the description and the images from the manual show it does too (though the text only describes component)

>>1032732
Except that's clearly not true. I already sited numerous examples across all major manufacturers.

>>1032740
http://www.ebay.com/itm/200957143533

>>1032738
Ypu can keep pestering them or assume it's sold and they haven't taken down their ad.

>>1033196
Ad was up last week for more money and just reappeared yesterday though, I nailed him right away. Starting to feel like some sort of rapist scammer to me.

>>1033238
Yes, all the gullible sorority girls are lining up outside of dark alleys to get those RGB monitors

I know that emulation-related stuff belongs in /v/, but would running emulators from my Wii on a CRT yield acceptable picture quality?

>>1033523
>pls respond

>>1033523
>>1033743
Yes, just make sure you change scaling to "original" in the emulator settings so you get 240p. It looks very good, and emulators 4th gen and back will play most things perfectly.

I need a clarification on something. Can HD CRTs display 240p? Because SD CRTs can't do 480p, and it would be choosing between those two if there is such a limitation.

>>1033895

HD CRTs scale up 240p signals, so no, it doesn't display it correctly, and still add lag.

>>1033903
480i it is then. 480p doesn't offer too much improvement on a CRT anyway. Thanks.

>>1033895
No but CRT monitors can do 240p 120hz as well as higher resolutions

>>1033906
It's far more difficult to find a good CRT monitor than it is to find a good CRT television, at least for me. I'll make do.

>>1033194
>across all major manufacturers
Except that's clearly not true as well.

I'll admit that challenge was grossly misguided, but focusing on it exclusively it sure is an easy and convenient way to divert attention away from this false statement which is what I really took issue with:
>>1031534
>It's actually slightly unusual to have component and S-Video on the same TV

Even "slightly?"

I've have this for over 10 years and it hasn't skipped a beat

>>1025172

about the spots: it's just badly wiped dust, they'll come off in a second with a damp cloth

N64 VGA Mod Masterrace

>>1033523
Just remember that this thread thinks every resolution is "240p". Every system and even some games within systems (especially using FBA) require different resolutions. You also have to know to double the horizontal.

So use 512 x 240p for NES (legit 240p), use 512 x 224p for SNES (notice how this is not 240p) and use a variety of others for other resolutions. For some games you'll even use 320 x 240p like people talk about...but on Neo Geo. 320 x 224p on Genesis otherwise you're doing it wrong.

>>1034905
Make that 640 x 224p with Genesis, I forgot to double the horizontal since the Wii is just shitty scaled graphics and filters anyway.

>>1034905
Your resolutions are way, way off, man. NES was 256x224, as were the vast majority of Super NES games, with only a handful going any higher, and none that come to mind. I think maybe a few JRPGs that had kanji, hell if I know the specifics.. Genesis did have a ton of games that were 320x224, but many were also 256x224.

Also, the "240" in 240p refers to the actual resolution of the monitor and television. There are 16 pixels of vertical overscan.

>>1034936
That's fine

>>1034936

>>1034936
So when your Sega Master system outputs a 192p signal do you start counting your overscanned pixels then? Or do you admit that pixels on a CRT are not set in stone but rather generated dynamically by means of electrons.

Anyway, that's fine.

>>1035037
Can you take a wild guess at how many pixels the game is showing off here on the bottom screen? Spoilers: It's 256x224, but each monitor is displaying 256x240.

>>1035041
It's still going to show up as at a 240 vertical resolution on your monitor or television.

Look, the point is that stretching the horizontal resolution is probably the dumbest thing I've ever heard in these threads.

>>1035057
Whatever dude, run your NES emulators at 224 pixels. If you feel you're right then I'm sure the satisfaction from that will blow away the satisfaction you'd get from using the right resolution.

>>1035080
What are you talking about, man? I barely use emulators in the first place. All I'm saying is that when you -- or whoever -- said the NES ran games at legitimate 240 vertical is incorrect. Practically nothing actually did.

>>1035057
Wow also...you've never even used RetroArch on Wii. You don't know shit. Go ahead and set it to 256 x 224p, I dare you. You can't, it's not an option. Go talk to the devs if you want them to tell people for the thousandth time that you have to double the horizontal. Fuck right off.

>>1035086
Holy shit, dude, all I'm saying is that these games run in 256x224 and are displayed at 256x240 with black borders. That's all. Stop being so goddamn hostile, this isn't /v/

>>1035083
The NES is 256 x 240 while a standard NTSC TV typically just shows 256 x 224 of the pixels. But from a pure data point of view, it's 256 x 240 and you can make the additional rows visible in an emulator.

>>1035093
All I'm saying is that you're wrong. You're calling me wrong, fuck you. I'm not wrong, you're wrong.

>>1035093
Anyone trying to get RetroArch on Wii to display games properly please don't listen to this guy. Just search for double horizontal retroarch wii on Google, please. Don't talk all day about how CRTs are the best and then input the wrong signal.

>>1035097
Calm down, man, christ. Go have a drink or something.

Maybe there's some confusion going around. All I'm saying that the games native resolutions are [x]x224. Go check for yourself and see how many pixels are being displayed. Even when displaying at 256x240, the extra 16 pixels will simply show up as black. Just as every other system that displays at 256 vertical, like the Genesis, Super NES, and PlayStation.

>>1035093
Hnnnnnng here's what it outputs chump measure the bottom

>>1035106
All I'm saying is that you're wrong. NES / Famicom games' native resolution is 240p. Some games have a black border, some don't. A black border isn't a 224p signal dude. Plenty of games don't have the border. I don't know what else to tell you. >>1035107 that game has no black border.

im not able to use any of my light guns on my 27" sony trinitron vega.
god dammit

>>1035106
Also the only games that play at 256 vertical like you speak of are certain arcade games.

>>1035112
So my emulators and systems have been magically missing 16 pixels for the last few decades?

Picked this up for $1 at GW.

Did I do good VR.

It's one of the best CRT's I've had, everything looks crisp.

Phillips 20PT643RO1

>>1035136

Back.

>>1035142
It's a good brand and has all the inputs you would ever need, you did good.

>>1035162

I just realized it has audio out.

This TV was defiantly a score.

I feel bad for you guys paying $20+ for Goodwill TVs. Where I'm at EVERY CRT TV is $1.

>>1035123
Here's the real snapshot, thanks for playing.

>>1034905

>not using 3840x224 and 3840x240

Integer scales to 240, 256, 320, and 384 wide. Anything else can just be stretch with no visible scaling artifacts.

>>1035175
Let me know when the Wii handles Super Resolutions

>>1035172
Alright, so ironically enough, my emulators have been magically missing the extra 16 vertical pixels. Why the hell is that?

>>1035114
Is it HD?

>>1035136
>>1035142
I have this very TV.

It does indeed have a nice picture. Component + S-video is great too.

>>1035170
>Where I'm at
Where's that?

>RetroArch now has black frame insertion for 120hz monitors

Neat. Pretty soon I won't even need my CRT anymore.


http://www.mediafire.com/download/c456davgm41oadf/RetroArch-Win64_20130830.7z

I'm going to make a pretty powerful pc based off an i7 build, and I want a CRT as an extra monitor.(I'll be using my other systems on it too) What should I aim for, guys?

>>1017878
Fuck.

>>1035228
Botnet alert, RetroArch Updater says I'm still up to date.

>>1035279

That's the official version. Black frame insertion was added as an option just a day ago.

https://github.com/libretro/RetroArch/commit/62c34c7871aa960eec51e6b8e0ec810deb3aceeb

You can build it yourself. The link is just to a windows 64 bit build someone made.

You likely won't officially get this until 1.0 is done. The Windows version is notorious for lagging behind the rest.

>>1034905
>>1034936
>>1035092
NES NTSC : 256(282)x224(240)
NES PAL : 252x240

There are (15 on the left and 11 on the right) additional pixels on NTSC that are filled with the background color, the true amount of scanlines is 240 but some are hidden in the overscan.
The PAL PPU cuts off 2 pixels of each side along with the overscan area, this get replaced with a black color.
There's no emulator that gets this right, but this comes in handy to distinguish between emulation and real hardware.

SNES can do 224 or 239 scanlines with 256 or 512 pixels and interlaced or non-interlaced, it's all software selected.

Most PAL titles use 239 lines instead of 224 because of they already have a long vblank time and to reduce the letterbox effect.
Most NTSC titles use 224 lines to get more vblank time, even if the 239 mode is used most of these extra lines are going to end up in the overscan area anyway which means that it would a waste of valuable vblank time.

>>1034936
>Also, the "240" in 240p refers to the actual resolution of the monitor and television.
You don't seem to know what Vertical Blanking is.
60hz television have actually 262.5 (or 262, 263) scanlines per field.

>>1035080
>run your NES emulators at 224 pixels
If you don't want to see any graphic glitches in NTSC mode that should be hidden in the overscan, then this is the right way.

>>1035194
It's because typical consumer TVs overscanned quite a bit back in the day. I'm sure you remember playing consoles on some TVs that ate up part of your score or life bar. The developers knew that and kept the real game info more or less central and the shit on the very edges can loot pretty out of place so your emulator probably just cuts it off. Even back in the day, though if you had a large high quality TV you might be able to see that stuff. I remember kids in elementary school bragging about it.

>>1035560
Yup everyone listen to this guy in this CRT thread, you heard it here first: run your NES emulator at 224p, otherwise you'll see all that overscan that should be hidden by your CRT...on your CRT. Outputting the wrong resolution is sure to make it scale just right on the TV screen, as a bonus.

Hi CRT-/vr/iends! Fellow CRT user here -- I have been monitoring these threads for a while, and I've been wondering a few things:
Why do my gaymen-TV (a Sony Trinitron KV14M1B, I had it way before /vr/ was even a thing) sometime don't display geometrical forms when drawn near a white or really bright area?

Are monochrome CRT with highly persistent phosphor hard to find? Are there some with composite input? Or is it better to go with a cheap monochrome LCD with a hell of ghosting? It's for a few not so /vr/ related stuff I wanna do on my Amiga in interlaced mode (well it can be /vr/ related: playing MUDs on JRComm Terminal in 640*512 count, right?).

>>1036842
Highly persistent phosphor sounds terrible. But these PVM people have a "Blue Only" button and can go monochrome easily for microcomputing or test / adjustment purposes.

>>1037102

I need Highly persistent phosphor to have a ghosting effect capable of masking the flickers of the interlaced modes produced by the Amiga. I don't know it flicker fixers exist for the monochrome composite output.

>>1036842
>Why do my gaymen-TV (a Sony Trinitron KV14M1B, I had it way before /vr/ was even a thing) sometime don't display geometrical forms when drawn near a white or really bright area?

Do you mean, why is there distortion in bright screens? That's poor voltage regulation going to the X/Y deflection yoke.

>>1037198

I forgot to write "correctly". Yes, I meant why is there distortion. Is there a way to fix this?

Anyone here have a PVM that has SMPTE-C phosphor instead of rare earth P22? They're pretty rare in 13" and 20".

I don't know anything about CRTs but I found a JVC BBE I'Art in the trash the other day. Is this any good?

>>1037867
Maybe, JVC made some professional monitors like the PVM. Panasonic did too. l'Art sounds french, if you're a Frenchman then there's SCART so it's good.

>>1035560
## Desktop ##

640 x 480 @ 30.000000 desktop

## Family Computer - Nintendo Entertainment System ##

256 x 240 @ 60.098000 famicom

## Mark III - Master System ##

248 x 192 @ 60.000000 mastersys
256 x 192 @ 60.000000 mastersys

## PC Engine - Turbo Grafx ##

336 x 224 @ 60.000000 pcengine
544 x 242 @ 59.922743 pcengine

## Mega Drive - Genesis ##

256 x 224 @ 60.000000 megadrive
320 x 224 @ 60.000000 megadrive

## Super Famicom - SNES ##

256 x 224 @ 60.098475 superfam
256 x 239 @ 50.000000 superfam
512 x 478 @ 25.000000 superfam
512 x 448 @ 30.000000 superfam

## PC-8800 ##

640 x 200 @ 60.000000 pc88

## PC-9800 ##

640 x 400 @ 60.000000 pc98

## Sharp X-68000 ##

256 x 240 @ 55.450000 x68000
256 x 256 @ 55.450000 x68000
512 x 480 @ 55.450000 x68000
512 x 512 @ 55.450000 x68000
768 x 512 @ 55.450000 x68000

## Amiga ##

320 x 256 @ 50.000000 amiga

## Game Boy Advance ##

240 x 160 @ 59.730000 gba

## Aux. ##

240 x 200 @ 59.730000 aux
256 x 244 @ 60.000000 aux
256 x 240 @ 60.098475 aux
320 x 240 @ 54.140000 aux
320 x 244 @ 59.410646 aux
384 x 240 @ 59.629403 aux

Hey guys, I just picked up a Sony Trinitron, model number KV-27FS13. I love this thing, but the convergence is a bit off on the edges. I was wondering if anyone had any experience fixing this, and could give me any tips. I found the service manual online, but I need a starting point, really. Thanks in advance.

>>1038312
That's just the flatness screwing with you. I have the selfsame problem.

>>1035219

Central Arizona.

>>1037867
>>1037876
That's I'Art, as in "eye art," not l'Art as in "the art," and it was just JVC's top TV line. It was sold in the U.S. too.

Describe it more, anon. Part #, size, etc.

>>1035209
it says HD ready.
so im assuming so

>>1038760
HD Wegas upscale 480i and 720p. They natively display 480p and 1080i. Only the Dreamcast will work with light guns on an HD Wega, and only if you turn on the HD pass-through (direct scanning) mode in the service menu.

>>1037215
No, it's just a characteristic of TVs. Professional monitors (both video and computer) will be much better in this regard.


(If you have a PVM that's doing this, there's something wrong - probably an adjustment you can make.)

>>1038312
I've got this same TV (well, the 32 inch model). I've looked through the whole service menu and there's no digital convergence like on the newer sets. You're gonna have to pop it open and fuck with the hexapoles.

>>1038305
>I don't have any idea where these frequencies came from

>## Family Computer - Nintendo Entertainment System ##
>256 x 240 @ 60.098000 famicom
http://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php/Clock_rate

>## Game Boy Advance ##
>240 x 160 @ 59.730000 gba
This is also the same refresh for the 8-bit Gameboy.
>http://nocash.emubase.de/pandocs.htm#lcdstatusregister
>A complete screen refresh occurs every 70224 clks.
GB Master frequency is 4,194304Mhz.
GBC master frequency is twice as the older GBs (8,388608Mhz).
GBA master frequency is twice as the GBC (16,777216Mhz).
SGB2 master frequency is 20,97152Mhz, then divided with 5.

(4,194304*1000000)/70224=59,72750057Hz

NTSC SNES master frequency is 6 * NTSC-Subcarrier (3,579545MHz).
The SGB divides the master frequency with 5 for the GB-CPU.

(4,289454*1000000)/70224=61,08245044hz

PAL SNES master frequency crystal is 4 * PAL-Subcarrier (4,43361875MHz).
>http://nocash.emubase.de/fullsnes.htm#snespinoutsmiscchips
A PLL (named S-CLK) multiplies the original frequency with 1,2 with the result of 21,28137Mhz.

(4,256274*1000000)/70224=60,60996241hz

>## Super Famicom - SNES ##
>256 x 224 @ 60.098475 superfam
>256 x 239 @ 50.000000 superfam
>512 x 478 @ 25.000000 superfam
>512 x 448 @ 30.000000 superfam
http://nocash.emubase.de/fullsnes.htm#snestimingoscillators

You know it's pretty pointless to get any emulator sync to these precise numbers.
Because the your graphic card isn't going to output anything with 100% precision.
And the original hardware outputs these frequencies so precise as the clock crystals actually are.
But clock tolerances only matter as long TVs can sync to the color-subcarrier (and refresh-rate).
So it would be good to sync the emulator to the computers refresh rate, to avoid screen tearing at least.

>>1038312
>found the service manual
Same TV here, but I could not find the service manual. Pls upload for me.

>>1038787
Oh, maybe I should just replace it?

>>1038787
Where do I even begin to do that? The service manual photos are so vague.
>>1038885
http://www.go-gddq.com/upload/2009_05/BA-5.pdf Here's the manual for you, man.

>>1037215

No one know how to fix it?

>>1039109
There are a shit ton of convergence options, though. Write down the originals and carefully make adjustments

>>1038597
Just reading some of the shit on the back label.
Model No. AV-20F703
20"
120V 60Hz 105W
It says it was made in 2002

>>1017878

One would need to find the native input lag for SNES Super Mario World. Every game has input lag, it just happens from processing. For example, Super Street Fighter II Turbo arcade input lag on actual hardware is ~4 frames. This is called a point of reference.

Emulation can get somewhat close to real hardware in terms of input lag but never 1:1. Keep in mind it has to translate code, display it to your screen, make the refresh rate 60HZ (VC doesn't allow you to play games in their original Hertz iirc), then stream it to your device.

So a lot of variables to work with.

>>1039671
Looked through the manual. Nice! I like Invar shadow masks and I like JVC.

>>1039109
Thanks for the manual.

>>1038827
But those are the exact frequencies that you can get your video card to output using CRT_EmuDriver, and the associated system presets.

>>1039706
Yeah it can, with GroovyMAME and an ipac you get frames of input delay exactly equal to a SSF2T supergun as measured via high speed camera / LED inline buttons.

>>1040354
It was silly for him to say that an emulator will never be able to run something as fast as a CPS2. There's overhead involved in emulation of course but there's such a thing as overwhelming, exponential processor difference.

>>1040385
He brought up a good point with the fixed 60.0 Hz thing / input lag though...this would happen without syncing the vertical frequency output to the game/system's native refresh and also turning off Vsync. Vsync and RetroArch-style vsync (sync to refresh in mame) both introduce lag. If you're outputting a signal within .003 Hz of your goal, it's probably worth it in a lot of cases to turn off Vsync and not even see a screen tear if you get it close enough.

When I play a MAME game that runs at a native 60.00 Hz I always turn off Vsync. Also Direct3D is lag, need DirectDraw. Isn't everyone using OpenGL with RetroArch? I know that Linux introduces input lag with GroovyMAME no matter what.

>>1038781
i'll look for direct scanning cause i couldnt get my DC gun games to play

i was really hoping the saturn would work.
goddammit

>>1040838
Welcome to just one of the many reasons SD CRTs are advocated so strongly for retro vidya.

>>1028420

It looks like the image is getting sucked into the top of the screen and coming out from it, kinda like a floppy tortilla being held from the bottom.

>>1040683
>I know that Linux introduces input lag with GroovyMAME no matter what.

Are they using KMS to bypass X? If not, there's the problem.

>>1041170
SDL?

Gonna put a 8" PVM in my car. Runs on 12 volt DC. What now.

>>1043153
If it's for vidya, cool.

If it's for anything else, just use a cheapo LCD.

>>1030501
>Showing off digimon world 1
Nice. Got a jap copy myself.

Does anyone have any good games or movies they'd recommend using when adjusting convergence? I don't want to pay for a line generator.

>>1043163
Having some practical concerns, what's the difference between a PVM with "250 TV lines", "450 TV lines", and "600 TV lines"? If they're talking lines as in Sony up and down aperture lines, how are these even TVs? Don't you need 640 x 480? What am I missing here.

I don't really think it matter that much what kind of connection or brand of crt you have, it certainly makes a difference, but I'm running my wii off a panasonic 19/20" with only a single composite input, snes9x and the other emus allow for outputting 240p. As long as it's a 240p signal on any kind of crt, it'll look pretty good.

>>1043328
Well the most practical answer is very simplistic: More lines means a potentially sharper picture depending on source and processing.

With CRTs, you aren't really dealing with absolute resolutions anyway, because CRTs are not designed for discrete pixel addressing to begin with. Lots of CRT HDTVs can't physically resolve 1920x1080, even if they accept and display 1080i, for example.

>>1043385
I'll agree that "pretty good" is pretty good, but the general goal ITT is to seek and approach ideal conditions.

Found this at the end of some ones drive way with a free sign on it and remote taped to the top. I just had to break out the old 64 and set it up in the garage.

>>1043328
TVL is a measure of how many distinct stripes you could resolve in a width equal to that of the picture height. So, let's say you want to run a 640x480i square-pixel interlaced mode - you'd want a monitor with at least 480TVL of resolution (which actually means, on a 4:3 display, that you could resolve 640 horizontal pixels).

>>1043153
Be careful with that car plug. PVM is professional gear, it probably won't like the dirty spikey power coming out of a car. I would get some kind of conditioner (maybe just a bigass capacitor).

>>1043153
You know 8" pvms are every bit as deep as 20" pvms right?

>>1043396
Looks like a good time. I'm glad our CRT threads actually make people bust out their /vr/ gear.

>>1043417
next time just save yourself some time and link to wp directly

This seemed like the right place to ask this.

My TV only has HDMI and Component inputs. I want to connect consoles like my N64, SNES, and Gamecube to the TV. What's the best upscaler out there? Or am I better off just getting a CRT? Are CRTs better for every console, or just retro ones?

>>1043464
SD CRT:
5th Gen(N64, PS1, Saturn) and back

PC CRT Monitor:
Dreamcast

SD or HD CRT(hit or miss, can depend on the game):
Gamecube, PS2, Xbox, Wii

LCD/Plasma/etc:
PS3, X360

Not to say that PS3/360 can't look damn good on an HDCRT


SD CRT is the cheapest option. A good upscaler would be quite expensive.

>>1043483
Thanks a lot for the suggestions. Sony Trinitrons a good way to go as far as SD CRTs?

>>1043483
>PC CRT Monitor:
>Dreamcast
Can also use an HD CRT in 4:3 mode with a transcoder. And depending on the game, SD CRTs are strong candidates as well (such as games with lo-res sprites like Capcom's fighting games).

For this reason, I'd throw the DC in the next category with the other consoles that primarily run in 480p.

Is this any good?

http://www.amazon.com/Composite-S-video-Audio-HDMI-Converter/dp/B003NS0UUQ/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1378173354&sr=1-3&keywords=gamecube+s-video

>>1043490
Trinitrons a good way to go, especially if you're a fan of thick/heavy scanlines. This isn't to say that a good Samsung or Toshiba can't look great. As someone earlier in the thread said, try to avoid "generic" name brands such as Sylvania.

>>1043491
Also a good point. Right after I posted, I thought that revising it might a be a good idea, but whatever.

>>1043483
>>1043491
Can I just do s-video on an SD CRT for Dreamcast and back?

>>1043418
I used to run my Super Nintendo off the cigarette lighter. Never had a problem, still works today. Used it with a little Japanese handheld TV. Wonder what sort of input lag I was getting?

I'd like a capacitor anyway though to run the PVM. It's extremely deep, this is true...most of the space seems to be to allow for big long batteries to slide into the back.

I need to build some custom computers for these PVMs...has anyone built a real 15 Khz emulation rig yet? With a low dot clock Radeon, Windows XP, CRT_Emudriver, etc? Wondering how cheap I can get components down to...they say Mame likes Intel and dual cores.

>>1043563
I'm interested in what you come up with, as I'm debating if it would be, in the long wrong, better to do something like that or get all the original hardware together over time.

I'd also like to know if there are any PVM alternatives. That is, similar displays that aren't PVMs, like how there are "trinitrons" that aren't Trinitrons.

>>1043596
Yeah there are a lot of things, you need to know how to spot them. Even a Sears brand generic monitor for Amiga computers from the 80s has a proprietary 8 pin RGB connector but you'd never know unless you know. That's the SR 3000 and the tube is by Hitachi.

JVC, Panasonic, Ikegami all made professional broadcast monitors also. Mitsubishi even made presentation monitors, which are just gigantic (like up to 42"). RCA made a commercial line of high end TVs in the 80s with European style RGB inputs.

Then there are arcade monitors, the ultimate for gaming. They don't even have a frame on them, they're a picture tube and an RGB chassis that take a really hot voltage. So those require building a custom circuit to connect to your PC but there are a lot of toys to buy to help. There are small companies out there that build new ones using new-manufacture Philips CRT tubes and arcade monitor chassis from China.

The trick is having something with RGB inputs, that accepts a 15.7 Khz signal. A regular computer monitor usually starts at 31 Khz even though it has those nice VGA inputs. Old ones from the 80s and early 90s can sometimes do a range of frequencies, these are a good find. You'll get more luck looking for things like "editing monitor" and "rgb monitor" than you will by searching for "CRT".

PVMs are good though, they shouldn't really cost any more than rarer RGB monitors if you find them locally. eBay will just make you think everyone wants $400 for them when local people will be happy with $50.

>>1043536
What signal you choose is entirely up to you, be it RF or RGB.

The only cable I currently have for my (malfunctioning)dreamcast is and S-Video cable, and it looks pretty good to me.

>>1043596
Ikegami and JVC(I believe) both made PVMs that weren't PVMs(Sony that is)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmyYP8Ta3BQ

Samsung and NEC also made studio monitor CRTs

>>1043596
To expound more on arcade monitors, I'd really like to go this route. There's something about seeing a quality Sega arcade cabinet in someone's living room that bespeaks a rich, fulfilled life.

Nothing like a 29" monitor with a fiberglass cabinet and flawless arcade controls surrounding it, taking up no more space than a 27" Trinitron on a stand. Video cards to run these monitors are in the $20 range and much easier to get shipped than a PVM.

Now I'm all vexed because you need a relatively primitive card to use the primitive version of CRT_Emudriver that gives the most available modelines. Even if you max out at 200, HyperSpin conks out at 160. Dilemma.

>>1043641
During Arino's 40th Birthday Challenge, you can clearly see a number of PVMs/BVMs in the studio and near each camera. Yet they never let him play games on them due to sponsorships with LCD makers.

>>1043639
>>1043641
Craigslist always comes up dry for them. Where else could I look?

>>1043659
An arcade monitor would be very expensive, right?

>>1043663
>they never let him play games on them due to sponsorships with LCD makers.
Ain't that some shit.

In all honesty, I haven't seen very much of gamecenter, but I remember watching the Parappa the Rapper episode; I have a feeling he'd of had a much easier time had it been played on a CRT rather than the LCD.

>>1043678
I got extremely lucky with my PVM on ebay, and unless you live in Cali or near New York, you're not going to have much luck on Craigslist. They still show up time to time for me, even if they are composite only models.

Can some help a total neophyte out? I'm looking to jump into the world of retro game collecting and want to know what to look for in a CRT TV. I really want to go RGB so I need to/should get a SCART-compatible television, correct?

>>1043685
He really should at least get one of those framemeisters, there's no excuse with a job like his for input lag.

I got some crappy 20" Sansui today at the pawn shop. It does the job. I notice with Mario that I am falling to my death a lot less, my jumps are way more precise.

Fun stuff.

>>1043678
You can get a brand new 19" arcade monitor for $150 and a brand new 25" for $250. The dude at 8liners.com makes them. Of course, if you get in on a group buy you can get an entire cabinet with a top quality Nanao 29" monitor for around $500.

>>1043685
California and PVMs is no joke. You can find real BVMs in California for about $150 on eBay, local pickup only.

>>1043747
If you're in Europe you should get a TV with SCART, but they didn't make many in the US. RCA did in the 80's but why compete with their own RCA input technology? They ditched the Dimensia line and invented Proscan. You want BNC inputs, DB9 inputs, VGA input, 25 pin VGA input, Roland 8 pin RGB input...something like that. Anything RGB, SCART is just one kind. It's actually a pain in the ass compared to the BNC connectors on a PVM / other pro monitor, since you need to wire it for audio and hook in all sorts of 12 and 5 volt lines and ground crazy things, or else buy a cable from someone who has.

>>1043785
The Framemeister marketer guy should really get in touch with Producer Kan / VE Suda and let them know about that device...and offer a free one sponsor style.

>>1043785
Aren't Framemeisters crazy expensive? CRT people who want to get into outputting real horizontal and vertical frequencies on their RGB should pay a mere $20 for this thing...has RGBHV and also composite sync via BNC connectors. Check it.

>>1043685
Can you hit the HV DELAY button on your PVM the next time you're playing various resolutions / systems on the Wii and see what horizontal/vertical sync it's outputting? PVMs have the Extron functionality built in.

>>1044223
I've seen multi-sync models going for less than $60 before. I really wish I could get my hands on one of those.

>>1044234
I don't believe my model has that function.

>>1044238
20M2U should have it, it might say H/V DELAY

>>1044249
I have the medical variant, which does not.

Sorry.

>>1044238
How do you tell which ones are multisync? Some have wide screens, some don't, some say HR Trinitron but then they say "600 lines" which doesn't sound 31 khz

>>1044257
I believe the HRTrinitron label is mainly there for line count, though I could be wrong.

I have no idea on how Sony's naming scheme for this works, so if there's a way to tell other than just looking up to see if a particular model supports 480p/720p/etc, I don't know about.

>>1044268
Does yours have the HR label? What's its model number / what makes it a medical model? S-video and component on a medical model?

>>1044278
>Does yours have the HR label
No

>What's its model number / what makes it a medical model?
20M2MDU

>S-video and component on a medical model?
Yes

I just found this, it is a TV tuner that goes with PVM's.

I was thinking of getting it so i can use RF only consoles.

are there any other options?

>>1044319
I hope all those in the center make up one large image. So cool.
How do you do that, by the way?

>>1043548
>I used to run my Super Nintendo off the cigarette lighter
The DC input goes through a fuse and the switch then to the 7805 Voltage regulator and the audio amp, as long the voltage spikes that could appear aren't higher than 32V it will be fine.

>Used it with a little Japanese handheld TV. Wonder what sort of input lag I was getting?
Depends on the technology, but for LCD/TFT it could be between 1-5 fields.

>>1044223
>SCART is just one kind. It's actually a pain in the ass compared to the BNC connectors
>since you need to wire it for audio and hook in all sorts of 12 and 5 volt lines and ground crazy things,
12 volt (or about 9V to enable 16:9 on supporting sets) is for automatic switching, it could turn on a TV from standby (quite uncommon feature) and it automatically switches the TV to the SCART input (you can leave this out if you want).
For 5 volt you can use a 180 ohm resistor to form a voltage divider because SCART has 75 ohm termination on the RGB blanking line, the result of approx. 1,471V is enough to enable the RGB mode (1-3V are needed).
RGB voltage is only really needed when the TV can't enable RGB manually.
The RGB lines itself are 0.7Vp-p AC-coupled almost like VGA with 0.7Vp-p DC-coupled, but many SCART TVs will accept DC-signals (but not vice-versa with VGA monitors).
The great amount of ground pins are actually useful for soldering shielded wires (pic related) to the socket/plug, because they are placed right next to the signal pins.
>http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/gamescart/gamescart.htm
SCART is actually a pain in the ass if you want to plug it in on a setup where you can't easily reach the back of the TV.

>>1044739
Yeah a broken $1 VCR from Goodwill.

Alright guys, I had a euphoric eureka moment today and I want to know if it will probably work.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?p_id=2398&seq=1&format=2

It only says 480i but it is a passive adapter. I have a multi-console component cable that also works on a switch from 480i to 480p-720p-1080i, and it outputs 240p in 480i mode, so this should too.

If I built a system around, let's say, a Radeon 4650, I could output emulators in 240p to a regular old television without a shitty active converter.

pls don't dash my hopes

>>1045281
Requires a video card that can output analog Y/Pb/Pr over the VGA pins of a DVI-I connector. Make sure.

>>1045284
Right, and I looked into that. It works on 45xx and 46xx cards as well as what are listed and some others, according to the customer reviews.

The only thing I'm not sure of is if it can do 240p, but given the separate "SD" and "HD" modes, it probably can.

>>1045284
>>1045292
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=130811.0

It does, but the card needs to work. This guy's problem was the X700, which has problems with low dot clocks. The HD 4xxx do not, according to the CRT_EmuDriver page.
Case closed.

>>1017664
I'm in Cbus, but I already have an SDCRT at home. Not a trinny but whatevs. Not like I have space for two.

Is there any good guideline to follow when sizing up the quality of a CRT? RGB input is nice, but what else? Is there also a test suite, maybe in the form of a DVD, that could be played to measure the performance of the monitor?

Lastly, what are good resources for repairing CRTs? If nothing else (since I know about monitor electrocution from my arcade building days), what's the best resource for finding good repair places?

>>1045321
I'm sure those TVs are gone, I started this thread like ten days ago. I was hoping to see pics of them in some /vr/ trooper's house but whatevs.

There's a nice test suite available to burn for Dreamcast. Most of us just throw away bad CRTs since, at this point, good ones are cheaper to buy than the cost of repair. I do have an 8" PVM that won't fire up that I've been meaning to practice on, though.

whelp, no idea what I've done wrong here. I made a db9 connection from my genesis to my amiga 1080 monitor's rgb port and this is what it looks like. The pinouts on both sides and my soldering is fine.

How'd I do /vr/
It's a Phillips model 27PS55 S121 mostly play my 64 on it, sometimes Gamecube and Wii

Back of the TV

>>1045403
>>1045402
p good bruv

Does anyone possiby know of a site that would show me pictures of older Toshiba CRT's from the late 80's/90's? I tried just scouring google image search and ebay looking for pictures of a specific model and It is elusive...

>>1045397
I just looked up a few things.
>http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/gamescart/gamescart.htm#megamstr
>http://www.zimmers.net/cbmpics/cbm/monitors/1084s/pinout.html
>http://www.bombjack.org/commodore/commodore/1080A_Color_Monitor_Service_Manual_3140041-02.pdf
Did you put a 75ohm resistor and a 220uF capacitor on the RGB lines?
Are you sure that you wired the sync signal correctly?
It could be that the monitor doesn't accept a CVBS signal as sync.

>come back from holiday
>my crt has been replaced by an led
>hey i got you a new tv anon to replace that old one youve had forever!

th-thanks

>>1045440
wiki:
Toshiba prevents their product manuals from being available on the Internet to enforce a planned obsolescence by cutting the independent repair market off from critical service information.

So finding stuff would be difficult.

>>1045451
Kill them. Kill them. Kill them. Kill them. Kill them.
>Kill them. Kill them. Kill them. Kill them. Kill them.
Kill them. Kill them. Kill them. Kill them. Kill them.
>Kill them. Kill them. Kill them. Kill them. Kill them.
Kill them. Kill them. Kill them. Kill them. Kill them.
>Kill them. Kill them. Kill them. Kill them. Kill them.
Kill them. Kill them. Kill them. Kill them. Kill them.
>Kill them. Kill them. Kill them. Kill them. Kill them.
Kill them. Kill them. Kill them. Kill them. Kill them.
>Kill them. Kill them. Kill them. Kill them. Kill them.

>>1045462

>>1045462
Thats why I tend to overstate my love for the things I like, so that people know not to just do random shit such as this.

>>1045449
No. I actually figured it out. The person who wrote the Genesis pinout did it upside down. I found a better pinout that worked beautifully!

>>1045472
meant for
>>1045451

>>1045281
You can use a regular TV with CRT_Emudriver / custom resolutions and 15 Khz modes. The key is lossless transcoding from VGA to component. Crescendo Systems TC-1500 or TC-1600 is the unit of choice for the people who do such things...but at over $100 this is something to do so that you can have 30"+ arcade/emulation monitors for cheap.

I've been thinking about getting a CRT for my retro gaming but... where do you guys even find these for sale!? Ebay?

>>1045692

I just got a cheap $20 20" CRT at a local pawn store. Thrift shops still have them.

It works well enough for me.

>>1045402
>>1045403

No ports at the front would bother the shit out of me, otherwise way better compared to my cheap shit CRT.

>>1045719
They're on the right of the screen.

Does anyone have any insight on this specific model of CRT? I tried a Google search but couldn't find any reviews, only links for parts.

Ok I want a CRT to play psn classics on my PS3 (PS1 and PS2 games).

What would be the best tv for the job.

Also, should I be using component or composite cables?

>>1045837
Old computer monitor, regular 31 Khz+ frequency. Get a VGA cable for the PS3, set its resolution to something tight that the monitor handles. Find out the native resolution of the games you're interested in playing for optimum experience.

XBox 360, PS3, PS2, Dreamcast, XBox...all these systems are 31 Khz optimized most of the time. Dreamcast and PS2 can do 240p but none of the others do, making a normal CRT on them a rather fuzzy experience due to the interlacing. Not many Dreamcast and PS2 games are 240p native.

>>1046157
>XBox 360, PS3, PS2, Dreamcast, XBox...all these systems are 31 Khz optimized most of the time. Dreamcast and PS2 can do 240p but none of the others do, making a normal CRT on them a rather fuzzy experience due to the interlacing. Not many Dreamcast and PS2 games are 240p native.
Holy shit could you be any less /vr/ if you tried? The guy's question was fairly OK since he was asking about PSX games on PS3 but the correct answer is they'll look best on a 15khz CRT over component in real 240p.

Are these PVMs magnetically shielded? Ray shielded so we'll have to use proton torpedoes? Can I leave them next to my router?

>>1046169
OK then I'll just tell him he's wrong and that PS3 can't do 240p and PS2 isn't /vr/ related so he's not welcome here.

>>1046169
How is telling him to use component on a PS3 and that it will output 240p "more right" than me telling him that it can't do 240p at all?

>>1046157
>>1046169
So should I go with a monitor or a tv?

>>1046218
If you want it to look as muck like a real PSX as possible, a TV or component video monitor. I don't have a PS3 but I'm hearing that their virtual consoles don't do 250p. That seems assinine to me but whatever.

>>1046218
It won't look like a PSX on a PS3 though, it will look like when an XBox emulates a PSX on a TV...all fuzzed out and wrong. There's always a chance that the original "fat" PS3 had true 240p output from its PSX solution, but you'd need to look up things based on your model.

It might be best to acquire a real Playstation One. The original fat PS2 can do PSX and has a better chance of doing it at the true resolution.

>>1046228
>>1046251
Would I be better off emulating then?

I don't really want to shell out the money for all those systems and games.

>>1046305
Emulating's tricky because you still have to consider how to get the real signal to the monitor or TV. If it's a TV you'd need a transcoder to convert the output to component ($$$)...even with something like a PVM you still need to install Windows XP and custom drivers or else go the PowerStrip route.

The Wii doesn't emulate the PSX so that solution is out. Modded fat PS2 with hard drive installed and every PS2 game ever on the drive maybe? Everything ends up costing money, usually more than the CRT itself.

>>1045321
>Is there also a test suite, maybe in the form of a DVD, that could be played to measure the performance of the monitor?
Digital Video Essentials
Avia

>>1045394
>Most of us just throw away bad CRTs since, at this point, good ones are cheaper to buy than the cost of repair.
Recycle! At the very least, put it in the free section of CL so someone will pick it up to fix and use/sell (or melt it down for materials).

>>1045724
Not that model, but I've used Philips before and still own one. What do you want to know?

I have acquired PVMs. I can't find any of the S-Video cables for my consoles since I seem to have packed them separately so as to avoid losing them. The only S-Video cable I have is a third party horror show that fits every console, and when I hook its N64/Gamecube into my SNES all the PVM will tell me is that it's getting an NTSC signal. So the cable is bunk, the monitors work fine with BNC or with a proper S-video signal.

So how can I console game on these for now? Has anyone made a BNC to RCA jack converter? I don't even know what I'd cut up for the RCA female donor. Is my only solution to order a bunch of parts and cables as I'll be doing anyway? It would be nice to game on it somehow in the meantime.

>>1046621
Yes RCA to BNC adapters are 10/$3 on eBay

>>1045462
http://elektrotanya.com/

here you go my friend.

>>1045321
http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/240p_test_suite

>>1046337
modding a PS1 (even with a hard-wired modchip) is really, really, really easy.

Same goes for Saturn.

>>1046638
Yeah those Saturn V3s are pretty slick is there a psx one like that? The one in my psx has like eight solder points all over the insides but I did have it installed in 1997.

Wikipedia says that a DVD has 250 horizontal lines, S-video transmits 120 horizontal lines, and VHS tape does 30 horizontal lines. What do we do with these 600 lines on the PVMs...16:9 mode?

>>1047195
>Wikipedia says that a DVD has 250 horizontal lines, S-video transmits 120 horizontal lines, and VHS tape does 30 horizontal lines
Woah this is just beyond wrong.
First there are 525 total lines for a Frame (2 fields) at the rate of 30hz, or 625 lines for a Frame at 25hz.
A field is made of a half frame with about 262,5 lines (60hz) or 312,5 lines (50hz).
Now there is overscan that defines how much of the picture gets cutoff by the screen border.
When it comes to a (analog) connection to a screen, there's CVBS (Composite), Y/C (S-Video), RGB and YUV (YPbPr, Component and YIQ [historical]).
Y stands for Luminance and it carries the pure brightness (and blanking).
C stands for Chrominance and it carries a modulated color difference signal, this is where color encoding standards (NTSC, SECAM and PAL) are important.
CVBS stands for Color Video Blanking Signal, this is just the Y signal with reduced bandwidth to make room for the C signal (remember it's modulated).
RGB carries the pure Red, Green and Blue colors over a simple connection, CRTs in general are ALMOST directly driven by these signals.
YUV is made of the plain Y signal and color difference signals, U (Pb, B-Y) carries the Blue to Y difference and V (Pr, R-Y) carries the Red to Y difference.
NTSC works by converting the color difference into Hue and Saturation, then the Hue gets phase-modulated and Saturation gets amplitude-modulated (combining phase- and amplitude-modulation is often refereed as QAM).
PAL is simply like NTSC but the vertical C resolution is halved.
It works by inverting (phaseshifting it by 180°) the C signal every 2nd line, and then the receiver (TV) restores it by using a delay line (just delays it's input by one scanline) and then it uses the current C signal and the inverted previous (delayed) C signal to get a correct C signal that always have the correct Hue (bad PAL reception results into weak Saturation, which is much better that the wrong Hue on NTSC).

>>1047195
>What do we do with these 600 lines on the PVMs...16:9 mode?
A Trinitron has theoretically a infinite resolution of lines.
But it's actually for 50hz video signals (625 total and 576 visible), 16:9 will look nice on a Trinitron because of it's aperture grille.

>>1047267
oh good, someone decided to empty his brain out in a single post to reply to a simple question

>>1047267
In addition, S-Video suffers from low color resolution. NTSC S-Video color resolution is typically 120 lines horizontal (approximately 160 pixels edge-to-edge)[80], versus 250 lines horizontal for the Rec. 601-encoded signal of a DVD, or 30 lines horizontal for standard VCRs.

Look I can copy and paste also.

I just bought a shit GE S-video cable from Wal-Mart for PVM test purposes. It can't carry a Chroma signal to save its life. Confirmed on other TVs / source equipment.

Don't buy GE S-video cables / S-video cables from Wal-Mart / any AV equipment from Wal-Mart.

Also, does anyone know where to get a good s-video cable? A VGA-Box for DC? Some dude started making them again off the specs but he's added an absurd "scanline generator" since "CRTs are dead". Have to special order the real man version.

>>1047281
Why are some guaranteed as 250 lines, while some are 450 lines, while some are "over 600", while some are over 800? Are these physical lines in the aperture grille?

>>1047302
>It can't carry a Chroma signal to save its life. Confirmed on other TVs / source equipment.
This could be a plug issue.

>good s-video cable
monoprice

>VGA-Box for DC
Performance VGA Adapter (has passthrough and switching), ebay. Mine is incredible.

>>1047297
S-VHS is the media you referring to and S-Video is the connection.

>Rec. 601-encoded signal
That's mostly 720 non-square pixels (at 13.5Mhz) with about 480 or 576 lines which depends to the refresh rate.

>Look I can copy and paste also.
Prove that my post was a copy paste.

>>1047304
>Are these physical lines in the aperture grille?
This depends on horizontal deflection circuit.

>>1047325
Oh tell us how S-VHS is a different format than VHS.

>>1047325
>Prove that my post was a copy paste.
This post was a copy paste. I can tell this by looking at the linebreaks and because I've seen a good deal of copy pastes in my time.

I have a VGA box for PS1/PS2, what should I expect for quality on a traditional CRT monitor? Will there be lag because it's converting the signal?

>>1047373
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-VHS

Not hard, bud.

>>1045573
The solution I propose is just a passive adapter for specific GPUs. The GPU will output YpBpR on its own through the analog pins of a DVI-I out port.
If you have an old computer laying around, it's a ~$40 solution.

>>1047380
There will be a bit of lag because it is an active converter. Might be other problems too, it just depends on the box.

>>1045281
Doesn't seem like it will work because of those dip switches.

>>1047641
I've got a component cable with a similar switch between 480i and 480p/720p/1080i. When switched to "SD" it does in fact do 240p.
I also linked to a forum where a guy said he got it to output 240p, although he had issues because of his GPU (which was not supported).
99% sure it will work.

Are those expensive fancy XRGB upscalers really nearly as good as a CRT?

Anyone know much of anything about Magnavox CRTs? I'm just casually curious about the 32 inch thing sitting in my room that I've had for a few years. Seems pretty good to me and I'm happy with it. Pretty much just wondering if Magnavox is considered mostly shitty or if they had some good CRTs made.

I have a small emotional attachment to the TV as I've played games on it ever since my grandpa bought it brand new in the early/mid 90s. I distinctly remember my mom telling me to get the Zapper away from the TV while playing Duck Hunt so I didn't break the glass.

>>1047630
What's that have to do with the weak color signal transmission of S-video cable only being required to resolve 120 horizontal lines?

>>1047750
>so I didn't break the glass.

>implying a child could shatter the face of a CRT with anything less than a ball-peen with an enormous handle

>>1048013
Nothing.
I wrote the short "analog video tech for dummies" article in >>1047267 explaining how it actually works.

>>1047750
>I distinctly remember my mom telling me to get the Zapper away from the TV while playing Duck Hunt so I didn't break the glass.
I must say that your mom is a quite funny person for saying such a thing.

So today I lost my rgb "virginity" persay and I found myself going through every single genesis game I own just to see how it looked. I'm fucking floored, I've had this monitor for months and never got to use the RGB on it, but I'm so glad I took the time to wire my spare sega to a DB9. An interesting problem I'm having was weird interference and color dropping. I was freaking out thinking I had a bad wire or that I soldered a cold joint somewhere, so I went through everything. It was only hours later I remembered the guy I bought my amiga monitor from mentioned that the color goes wonky sometimes and you have to give it a bit of a smack on the right side to correct it. Sure enough that worked. It only does it when I move it or something, so I'm assuming it might just be a wire within the monitor that needs resoldering, do you think this is the case? I know I shouldn't fix what isn't really broken, but I feel tempted to go in and fix it.

>>1047750
Listen, I'm not going to lie to you...Magnetbox...PanaphonicsSorny...those are all superior machines. But if you like to watch your TV, and I mean REALLY watch it, you want the Carnivale'. It features two-pronged wall plug, pre-molded hand grip well, durable outer casing to prevent fallapart....

>>1048097
See boys, DB9 on an Amiga monitor. PVMs aren't everything, these monitors are highly regarded for gaming.

>>1048116
it's also nice not to have to hunt down scart stuff when db9s are dirt cheap and easy to make cables for, although I am making a scart to db9 converter for any official cables I pick up

>tfw you realize these games were not made with rgb in mind, but in fact composite
>colors are much more saturated than they should be
>s-video is actually the best way to play

I heard you guys like 1000 mhz USB sampling, hacked controllers with VGA output, ipac and ps360 circuit board integrated, no input lag controls. Or maybe it was that you don't recognize their importance and value CRTs as the end-all solution for input lag?

>>1048290
Let me know of any arcade games you can locate that weren't designed for RGB, and cross-reference that with a list of console games that are superior to their arcade peers.

>>1048301
That all flew right over my head.

>>1048290

>>1048304
Usually USB controllers go at 125 Mhz and have that problem where you can't press too many buttons at once. There are little PCBs that crank it up to 1000 Mhz though, with separate USB handlers for each button input.

What the guy in the picture did was replace the wires on his controllers (Saturn, PSX Namco arcade stick, custom arcade controls, etc.) with VGA. The picture shows VGA in, but it's not really VGA. He custom wired it to deliver the button inputs from each control to the right spots. There's even an RJ45 jack in there. There's also a USB out that will send your input commands at top speed, rather than the normal no-multiple-button USB you'd normally get.

So getting a CRT won't solve input lag problems. A combination of flawless signal, CRT, and custom controls are necessary in order to get the game to respond to your input on the next frame. The old myth that this was not possible has been disproven...it's just difficult. Work has now begun to locate and eliminate even more variables.

>>1048319
That's neat. Incredible, even. I myself can't tell the difference when the lag gets that miniscule.

>>1048319
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,133194.40.html

>>1048119
>Tommy Lasagna
ouch my fucking eyes

>>1048301
>VGA

>>1048319
>What the guy in the picture did was replace the wires on his controllers (Saturn, PSX Namco arcade stick, custom arcade controls, etc.) with VGA. The picture shows VGA in, but it's not really VGA.

>>1048330
>vga.saturn.jpg

You can save time and avoid confusion by not referring to DE-15 as "VGA" outside of its use as a video connector.

>>1048352
You can save time and avoid confusion by not telling people that I'm talking about S-VHS when I'm clearly talking about S-video cable in itself.

Also, you meant DB-15. You are causing time loss and confusion.

>>1048301
>Using an ipac in a USB application
>ISHYGDDT

>>1048027
>>1048071
Parents say the darndest things don't they?

>>1048409
Are you assserting that the 16 Khz PS/2 connector is faster than USB at 1000000 Khz?

>>1048356
Shake out the sillies, homeboy. Do you have hypertension?

1. I don't know why you're getting defensive over some simple and correct advice.
2. You can't even tell that you're talking to one person about what someone else said, and you're rude about it.
3. You started calling it VGA and linked to a thread where everyone was smart enough not to call it VGA.
4. DE-15 is neither wrong nor an uncommon term for this connector.